Man I miss Maru in his peak form. He used to refuse to die with an unmatched tenacity, staying behind in losing games and crawled it back to an even fight, his opponents had to pry a seemingly sure victory from Maru's dead grip, and sometimes they even lose to that. Then there were games which were just vicious and decisive, where Maru decided on a timing and pull all SCVs and murder the opponent. And if the SCV pull fails? He's still going to win from that position anyway lmao. He could do scrappy fight from low economy situation like no one else.
Doesn't help that zerg has been dominant from 2014 onwards. Serral is great but zergs have won more premier tournaments than both terran and protoss COMBINED since 2014. Even terran got nerfed significantly when maru won 4 GSLs in a row, why haven't we seen a single major nerf in a decade for zerg?
Against bums you can get away with stuff like that. We’re talking about SC2 at the highest level here and Maru has been exposed for never reaching the same peak as serral/clem
@@richardly1543 ain't no way you're saying he plays against bums lmao when he was literally playing against the best players in the world while European players were shielded behind region locked tournaments.
Right on point. The moment he joined the military he loss all his muscle memory to the game and seems his movement became flawed. But even though I will always be his fan.
Watching Maru stagnate since 2018 has been so sad to watch. He is so talented and skilled, but he just won't adapt. I don't think he can play at the pace that Clem can play at, but he's been running into a brick wall against Serral because he doesn't ever change and Serral punishes him for it _every time._
24:25 In Finland, conscripts must do either 165, 255, or 347 days of service, based on specializations etc. So, 6 months is the most basic and for most people. Officers do 12 months.
I think that on this map, the Terran Cyclone needs to be able to send out its barb into the space shark and then get pulled at hyper speed along the map.
I do not think that a head-to-head match-up is THAT important in a GOAT discussion, especially at this point when Maru seems to be over his prime (but it still looks very bad). Head-to-head should be a significant factor (like a tie breaker), but overall performance, dominance and longevity is far more important in my view. I'd say that something like Aligulac's Hall of Fame is a very good gauge for who is in the legit GOAT discussion. And per that HOF there is not really a discussion (regardless how hard Artosis wants it to be): Serral is clearly the best (61k points) and Maru is clearly the second best (34k points), and all others are far away (starting at 14k points). I would also want to mention that certain match-ups can be tricky. Point in case: Serral is currently owned by Clem. But Clem can (and will?) loose to other Terrans (including Maru, and especially Gumiho at this very moment) and a fast Zerg like Reynor. But these aforementioned Terrans and Reynor are owned by Serral.
Maru is in terrible form long time now.... dunno what's goin on but it's sad. Clem is our best hope now. He is casually farming serral and i can't deny it , it's funny.
If we only look at the games between those two, there never was a battle. It was a completly one sided slaughter. There were series where Serral just won convincingly. And there were series where Serral made Maru look like somebody I could beat. I don't know if you guys play football (soccer), but we have ha cup where teams from the highest league play against lower class leagues (down to the 4th and sometimes even 5th league") - so in the first round we have completly one sided matches, because a 1st class team often stomps a team several classes below them. Well, that is Serral vs Maru since many years.
That reaper dive in game 2 was allowed. Reaper got too much damage and was unable to deny the creep deny. The queen from the natural went and planted straight away.
There were several best of 7 series in 2022 I believe where Maru 4-2'ed serral. But since then its been an absolutely slaughter. Wondering if Maru is just getting tired or lazy.
Nope. In 2022, Serral won every match they played. You're probably talking about 2021, but Maru only won two series then: a 4-2, and a 3-0. That's not "several." In the same year, Serral won the other two matches. There wasn't a single year where Maru won more matches than lost vs Serral. The closest was 2021, where each player took two matches from the other. Source: Aligulac. You can check their H2H history by: Click "Inference" > Predict > Enter both players names > click "Match history" in the next screen.
@@tigonridge You are the reason I'm not more in the SC2 community. I never said that Maru is much much better than Serral but that he was a serious contender some time ago.The core of my comment is still valid. Arguing for the sake of arguing.
@@tigonridge Actually Thank you for the website, I've been looking for something like this for a while now. Looking at their match history its clear that Maru is getting weaker and weaker when it comes to Serral. 2021 Maru won more matches than Serral. 2022 Serral won a few more. 2024 is a blood bath.
@@husman2368 since 2017, the GOAT has not been Maru…nor has it been Rogue - and that’s life darling. I’d say that Clem is the most physically gifted player, and Serral the most intelligent.
@@igit_7296 you're point is flawed GOAT debate is decided on accolades and Rogue and Serral are extremely close apart from the fact that Rogue has 4 GSLs which used to be the hardest tournament. Secondly maru has been around for a lot longer than serral with much better results there's a reason why they called him the 4th race maru in his prime was a different beast. And btw I'm talking about the player life lol made it pretty clear you haven't been following the game for long.
@@igit_7296You don't need to be to just defend and play a reactionary play style. The most intelligent player is considered rogue, there isn't much of a contest on that
@PranshuSharma-jj8hj You don't need to be to just attack and play a nonreactionary play style. The most intelligent player is considered serral, there isn't much of a contest on that
So difficult for a Terran to play against a maxed out Zerg. It's like micro and kite your ass off while a million banelings are A-moved towards you destroying your bases and everything else along with them.
Serral is not the goat of starcraft 2. This claim is ridiculous. He did not completely win over during Wings of Liberty. Rogue did. Artosis explains this on his youtube channel at one point, and is exactly right. Being the goat is across the entire games lifetime OR piercing every part of the game. Serral never competed in GSL. If Serral had won a GSL MAYBE you could make the claim of him being the GOAT, but this simply not the case. Tom Brady is widely considered the GOAT in football not because he has the most superbowls, but ALSO because he left the Patriots and went to an entirely different team with the Tampa Bay Bucconeers and still won a superbowl. Serral would have had to compete in GSL, somewhere else where he didn't dominate. Beating Maru doesn't prove this. As Clem absolutely destroyed Serral in that Championship Finals a few months ago. Serral is a top 5 player, but not the GOAT. Flash is the Goat of Broodwar because he won across the entire timeline of the game ; AND because he can play random and still win, and because he can go to any other tournament and win. The GOAT goes anywhere and everywhere to prove that they can win at any top level. Serral should have made a run through, and win, a GSL to prove that. GSL had the most difficult run through than any other circuit. Just because Serral beats Maru a lot, doesn't make Serral the GOAT. It just means that in the top players Serral is technically higher class than maru by maybe 1 or 2 slots.
This is just simply not a good way to look at it. No player dominated SC2 through all expansions. For GSL ; WoL was the Nestea era, HotS was the Innovation / Stats era and 2017+ is when Rogue and Maru really popped off. So by your logic no player can be in the conversation. Serral doesn't just have a great win % against Maru - He has winning % against every player in the world. In a 1v1 game. Every professional who has ever faced Serral has lost more than they won. The only thing Serral hasn't achieved in SC is winning a GSL. But the way SC fans hold to this as the holy grail is from a time when foreigners simply were nowhere near the levels of Koreans, to truly prove yourself you had to do it in GSL and that simply isn't true anymore. Not to mention Serral has a ridiculous win % against every top 10 Korean - so I think anybody who truly believes he couldn't win a GSL is coping. That said I hate goat arguments and think they're mostly just a way for fans to sling mud at one another.
Can you please stop talking about maxpax in the same sentence with these major winners, what has he done? won a online weekly cup from his moms basement?
![SahBabii - Viking [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/D37cL92JX0I/mqdefault.jpg)
Man I miss Maru in his peak form. He used to refuse to die with an unmatched tenacity, staying behind in losing games and crawled it back to an even fight, his opponents had to pry a seemingly sure victory from Maru's dead grip, and sometimes they even lose to that. Then there were games which were just vicious and decisive, where Maru decided on a timing and pull all SCVs and murder the opponent. And if the SCV pull fails? He's still going to win from that position anyway lmao. He could do scrappy fight from low economy situation like no one else.
Doesn't help that zerg has been dominant from 2014 onwards. Serral is great but zergs have won more premier tournaments than both terran and protoss COMBINED since 2014. Even terran got nerfed significantly when maru won 4 GSLs in a row, why haven't we seen a single major nerf in a decade for zerg?
Against bums you can get away with stuff like that. We’re talking about SC2 at the highest level here and Maru has been exposed for never reaching the same peak as serral/clem
@@richardly1543 they never won a gsl.
@@richardly1543 ain't no way you're saying he plays against bums lmao when he was literally playing against the best players in the world while European players were shielded behind region locked tournaments.
Right on point. The moment he joined the military he loss all his muscle memory to the game and seems his movement became flawed. But even though I will always be his fan.
Watching Maru stagnate since 2018 has been so sad to watch. He is so talented and skilled, but he just won't adapt. I don't think he can play at the pace that Clem can play at, but he's been running into a brick wall against Serral because he doesn't ever change and Serral punishes him for it _every time._
"maru washed"
Maru is a passive terran player. Unfortunately, this type of play hinders his performance.
That space shark having terran eyes had me laughing out loud 😂😂
24:25 In Finland, conscripts must do either 165, 255, or 347 days of service, based on specializations etc. So, 6 months is the most basic and for most people. Officers do 12 months.
I think that on this map, the Terran Cyclone needs to be able to send out its barb into the space shark and then get pulled at hyper speed along the map.
I do not think that a head-to-head match-up is THAT important in a GOAT discussion, especially at this point when Maru seems to be over his prime (but it still looks very bad).
Head-to-head should be a significant factor (like a tie breaker), but overall performance, dominance and longevity is far more important in my view. I'd say that something like Aligulac's Hall of Fame is a very good gauge for who is in the legit GOAT discussion. And per that HOF there is not really a discussion (regardless how hard Artosis wants it to be): Serral is clearly the best (61k points) and Maru is clearly the second best (34k points), and all others are far away (starting at 14k points).
I would also want to mention that certain match-ups can be tricky. Point in case: Serral is currently owned by Clem. But Clem can (and will?) loose to other Terrans (including Maru, and especially Gumiho at this very moment) and a fast Zerg like Reynor. But these aforementioned Terrans and Reynor are owned by Serral.
Serral needed to, or needs to, Win a GSL to make the GOAT talk convincing.
@@Tyrath2006 Lol, it looks like we found the burner account of Artosis!
I have to wonder what Maru is thinking in these games given his history versus serral
My guess is his history with Serral is dicking with his thinking.
Would love to see Maru do a little more prep/planning. Still awesome to watch these TITANS clash!
Maru is in terrible form long time now.... dunno what's goin on but it's sad. Clem is our best hope now. He is casually farming serral and i can't deny it , it's funny.
If we only look at the games between those two, there never was a battle.
It was a completly one sided slaughter. There were series where Serral just won convincingly. And there were series where Serral made Maru look like somebody I could beat.
I don't know if you guys play football (soccer), but we have ha cup where teams from the highest league play against lower class leagues (down to the 4th and sometimes even 5th league") - so in the first round we have completly one sided matches, because a 1st class team often stomps a team several classes below them.
Well, that is Serral vs Maru since many years.
The wardi "here there & everywhere" classic
PiG Casts? Nahhhh GOAT Casts!
Ouch. Just watched the whole series.
How many matches in a row is that? Ten?
One of those guys has the resigned look of a victim on his face. The other is a multiple time world champion.
46:55 lol
That reaper dive in game 2 was allowed. Reaper got too much damage and was unable to deny the creep deny. The queen from the natural went and planted straight away.
That feel when PiG Coaching calls out a pro for their bad form with the double command centre expand against the zerg
game needs major spicing up for me
There were several best of 7 series in 2022 I believe where Maru 4-2'ed serral. But since then its been an absolutely slaughter. Wondering if Maru is just getting tired or lazy.
Nope. In 2022, Serral won every match they played. You're probably talking about 2021, but Maru only won two series then: a 4-2, and a 3-0. That's not "several." In the same year, Serral won the other two matches. There wasn't a single year where Maru won more matches than lost vs Serral. The closest was 2021, where each player took two matches from the other. Source: Aligulac. You can check their H2H history by: Click "Inference" > Predict > Enter both players names > click "Match history" in the next screen.
@@tigonridge You are the reason I'm not more in the SC2 community.
I never said that Maru is much much better than Serral but that he was a serious contender some time ago.The core of my comment is still valid.
Arguing for the sake of arguing.
@@tigonridge Actually Thank you for the website, I've been looking for something like this for a while now.
Looking at their match history its clear that Maru is getting weaker and weaker when it comes to Serral. 2021 Maru won more matches than Serral. 2022 Serral won a few more. 2024 is a blood bath.
Pig, why do you always upload videos at 12am?
he's in australia
Australian mate, their clocks are upside down, it's ma21 where he's at.
because the kangaroos attack him at 1 am
@@aaronalquiza9680 I know, I'm also in the same timezone as him
@PranshuSharma-jj8hj oh shit, sorry my bad for assuming.
Debate of GOAT was over when Serral smashed maru at IEM katowice.
Clem wins? "TERRAN OP"
Maru loses? "AWW MARU GOT WEAK"
Trruuueeee double standards hit hard in the community
he was known for ghost mech and hasn't done that in ages. now he's just fodder.
Terran are op. Pls nerf scans and mules.
This is a Serral gearing up to go against Clem. Maru needs to face Clem.❤
Clem would play protoss and win lol
Where's the balance 😭😭😭 when Serral beats Maru but loses to Clem???
hey pig, isn't it terran who are overpowered?
The GOAT battle has been over since 2017.
One player is smarter than the other and that’s all there is to it.
Rogue is the GOAT maru is just probably the most talented player to touch the game if you're not talking about life.
@@husman2368 since 2017, the GOAT has not been Maru…nor has it been Rogue - and that’s life darling.
I’d say that Clem is the most physically gifted player, and Serral the most intelligent.
@@igit_7296 you're point is flawed GOAT debate is decided on accolades and Rogue and Serral are extremely close apart from the fact that Rogue has 4 GSLs which used to be the hardest tournament. Secondly maru has been around for a lot longer than serral with much better results there's a reason why they called him the 4th race maru in his prime was a different beast. And btw I'm talking about the player life lol made it pretty clear you haven't been following the game for long.
@@igit_7296You don't need to be to just defend and play a reactionary play style. The most intelligent player is considered rogue, there isn't much of a contest on that
@PranshuSharma-jj8hj You don't need to be to just attack and play a nonreactionary play style. The most intelligent player is considered serral, there isn't much of a contest on that
Why are all the sc2 pros mewing in the thumbnails?
Spoiler shield.
Is PiG a Terran? I feel like he's Terran.
pig is GM in all 3 races. he usually mains zerg in tournaments.
maru getting stomped. trying to win with strategy instead of brute mechanics. this isn't a strategy game Maru! click harder!!!!
Need a spoiler shield for this comment.
So difficult for a Terran to play against a maxed out Zerg. It's like micro and kite your ass off while a million banelings are A-moved towards you destroying your bases and everything else along with them.
yeet
Serral is not the goat of starcraft 2. This claim is ridiculous. He did not completely win over during Wings of Liberty. Rogue did. Artosis explains this on his youtube channel at one point, and is exactly right. Being the goat is across the entire games lifetime OR piercing every part of the game. Serral never competed in GSL. If Serral had won a GSL MAYBE you could make the claim of him being the GOAT, but this simply not the case.
Tom Brady is widely considered the GOAT in football not because he has the most superbowls, but ALSO because he left the Patriots and went to an entirely different team with the Tampa Bay Bucconeers and still won a superbowl.
Serral would have had to compete in GSL, somewhere else where he didn't dominate. Beating Maru doesn't prove this. As Clem absolutely destroyed Serral in that Championship Finals a few months ago.
Serral is a top 5 player, but not the GOAT.
Flash is the Goat of Broodwar because he won across the entire timeline of the game ; AND because he can play random and still win, and because he can go to any other tournament and win.
The GOAT goes anywhere and everywhere to prove that they can win at any top level. Serral should have made a run through, and win, a GSL to prove that. GSL had the most difficult run through than any other circuit.
Just because Serral beats Maru a lot, doesn't make Serral the GOAT. It just means that in the top players Serral is technically higher class than maru by maybe 1 or 2 slots.
This is just simply not a good way to look at it. No player dominated SC2 through all expansions. For GSL ; WoL was the Nestea era, HotS was the Innovation / Stats era and 2017+ is when Rogue and Maru really popped off. So by your logic no player can be in the conversation.
Serral doesn't just have a great win % against Maru - He has winning % against every player in the world. In a 1v1 game. Every professional who has ever faced Serral has lost more than they won.
The only thing Serral hasn't achieved in SC is winning a GSL. But the way SC fans hold to this as the holy grail is from a time when foreigners simply were nowhere near the levels of Koreans, to truly prove yourself you had to do it in GSL and that simply isn't true anymore. Not to mention Serral has a ridiculous win % against every top 10 Korean - so I think anybody who truly believes he couldn't win a GSL is coping.
That said I hate goat arguments and think they're mostly just a way for fans to sling mud at one another.
When clem wins Terran is op when mqru loses he's just washed. Anyone else seeinh thisndouble standard
fake-j4p terran trash
Can you please stop talking about maxpax in the same sentence with these major winners, what has he done? won a online weekly cup from his moms basement?
I love how these casters talk mad shit about the players, but would get dog walked by either.
You probably get mad when a coach yells at his players. Why doesn't the coach go out and do better? What a silly comment.