Early Supermarine Aircraft | The Weird Ancestors Of The Spitfire
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- Опубликовано: 26 июн 2024
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Thumbnail art: Ed Jackson - www.artbyedo.com/
Sources:
Shelton.K (2015), From Nighthawk to Spitfire: The Aircraft of R.J. Mitchell - geni.us/LC9t
Andrews.C.F & Morgan.E.B (1989), Supermarine Aircraft Since 1914 - geni.us/w44Y
Mason.F.K (1993), The British Fighter Since 1912 - geni.us/qD05wCD
Duval.G.R (1966), British flying-boats and amphibians, 1909-1952 - geni.us/i70W
plane-encyclopedia.com/ww1/pb...
Today we're looking at the early development history of Supermarine Aviation. Originally formed as Pemberton-Billing Ltd, then becoming Supermarine in 1916, the company made some unique and pioneering aircraft during WW1 and the interwar period. The company set up one of the first commercial routes for flying boats, and distinguished itself in air races such as the Schneider Cup (a topic we will cover later), but this is often overshadowed due to the overwhelming success of the Spitfire in WW2.
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0:00 Intro
2:52 Noel Pemberton-Billing
4:54 The First Aircraft: P.B.1
5:44 Pemberton-Billing P.B.7
7:52 Pemberton-Billing P.B.9
10:03 P.B.23E & P.B.25
13:04 Founding of Supermarine
14:43 P.B.29 & Supermarine Nighthawk
18:19 A.D Boat & A.D Navyplane
20:20 Supermarine N.1B Baby
26:23 Supermarine Channel
32:41 Commercial Amphibian
37:23 Supermarine Sea Eagle 
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F.A.Q Section
Q: Do you take aircraft requests?
A: I have a list of aircraft I plan to cover, but feel free to add to it with suggestions:)
Q: Why do you use imperial measurements for some videos, and metric for others?
A: I do this based on country of manufacture. Imperial measurements for Britain and the U.S, metric for the rest of the world, but I include text in my videos that convert it for both.
Q: Will you include video footage in your videos, or just photos?
A: Video footage is very expensive to licence, if I can find footage in the public domain I will try to use it, but a lot of it is hoarded by licencing studies (British Pathe, Periscope films etc). In the future I may be able to afford clips :)
Q: Why do you sometimes feature images/screenshots from flight simulators?
A: Sometimes there are not a lot of photos available for certain aircraft, so I substitute this with digital images that are as accurate as possible.
Feel free to leave you questions below - I may not be able to answer all of them, but I will keep my eyes open :)
Do you plan on doing a video on the Lockheed model 10 or the Electra Junior?
B-25? Ever? Please?
Polikarpov R5 series built in amazing numbers 7;000+
Never seen a video or mentioned!
Keep up the good work
If you ever would do the Sm79 id die happy
Another fantastically well detailed & researched video. I don't know how you find all the old photos of these 100yr old machines !! Well done 👍
It amazes me how centre of gravity just wasn't important to these early designers. Some of these planes look straight out of Wacky Races !!
A FIVE HOUR channel crossing in a a 100mph gale ? How did they not run out of fuel ?
It's also incredible nobody died of hypothermia !! 😲
I don't know if this is the sort of content you would cover, but I would love to see a video on aero-engine development in the UK after WW1 and in the 20s. The failure of the ABC Dragonfly, Armstrong Siddeley and Bristol radials, RR V12s and the awesome Napier Lion. I find it a fascinating period with massive leaps in technology and while everyone knows and loves the Merlin and Hercules, this is the period when the groundwork was laid that made those engines possible.
Oh yeah. It's often hard to understand just how much they improved and so fast
Omg, I was just talking to (at, lol) my wife about this yesterday, although I was referencing American designs.
@Alex Glanowski You're right, a lot of innovation happened in the US too, especially with Wright and Pratt & Whitney. Those two companies pretty much had a monopoly with the same kind of radial from the 20s until the 40s, though, so I find the UK scene more interesting. There was competition between many smaller companies with very different air-cooled radials and inline water-cooled designs. Roy Fedden's sleeve valve engines at Bristol are an excellent example of this.
@@slartibartfast2649 Very good point. But, I think that this topic would ultimately have to be it's own series. You really can't talk about the advancements of one country without at least touching on the other major air powers of the time. Not to mention the effect that aircraft engines had on automobiles, and vice versa. Still an immensely interesting topic, and I'm sure I'm not the only one that would watch every second of it 😁
If youre reading Rex, I would also love to see this. Engines make or break aircraft, and the heartbreaking stories of a well designed airplane married to an underperforming airframe never fails to make me weep... those good engineering tears. Man, I hope that never happens to me! (The reverse is possible and exciting, too)
Thank you for showing us the roots of Supermarine. When I was a model building kid my friends treasured their Spitfires, Mustangs, et cetera. My favorite was my 1/48 Walrus, it was unique in my view. Seeing its roots made me smile.
16:31. "Dastardly and Muttley in their Flying Machines"
THANK YOU, REX! This is a well thought out presentation of Supermarine. I learned a number of things, such as the name Supermarine going head on to submarine. That didn't even occur to me.
I am glad that you ended the clip just before the 1925 Schneider trophy, the grand epiphany for Supermarine. And I am also glad that you didn't dwell too much on Noel Pemberton-Billing, as his complex (and often unsavory) person is worthy of a full documentary that has little to do with Supermarine, or aviation on any scale. Thank you so much for a fascinating document on one of aviation's most important companies, and its founding form. Rex's Hangar is indeed the place to be.
Excellent. I enjoy the shorter, single plane videos, but these longer ones are much more satisfying. An excellent way to digest quite a lot of incidental history as well.
It is a format that worked well for Drachnifel, and I feel it works well for the 'Drachnifel of the skies" too.
I would have loved to be involved with seaplanes during the 1920s. Really enjoying these vids, Rex. Thanks a ton.
I never really knew of Supermarine's first aircraft! Now, these are some interesting aircraft, and an interesting story of one of the most famous British aviation company.
22:00 "....and a handful of carrier pigeon"
Why do I get Blackadder vibs from that?
That Nighthawk doesn't have wings; it has shelves.
Air Colonel - "Righto then, how many wings will this newfangled PB29 need ?"
Mad Inventor - "Why, all of them, Sir.
Signor Caproni told me the more the better !!" *
Air Colonel - "Smashing ! That'll show the Boche !!👍"
PS: Yeah yeah, I know the Caproni CA60 wasn't built till 1921.
Boche, n. WW1 slang for German Army.
Thank God youtube made that flashy, spangly animation when you press the thumbs up button. It was certainly at the top of my list of issues to be addressed on this platform.
Happier days when a phone no. of a major aircraft manufacturer could be easily remembered, Woolston 37!
What a great time to be involved with aviation.. It's funny to hear him say that an airplane designed built and put in production in 1915 was obsolete in 1917. Talk about technology racing ahead!
A multi-part video on the various planes that partook in the Schneider races would be *awesome*.
Hello! I am also a Rex. I have a Private Pilot Certificate, and was a Huey mechanic in the US Army, and my Dad worked at Lockheed starting on the L-1011. So, yea... obviously I'm subscribing, my Brother from Another Mother!
Nice one mate, you're output is certainly getting better & better. Well done.
Videos covering the various Schneider Cup racers would be absolutely fantastic!!!
I've never seen RJ Mitchell and Hugh Dennis in the same room.
I'm always amazed by the amount of research you have done and the clarity of the videos. They are always very interesting, and they have the right level of information and detail for me. Signed up on Patreon. You deserve it.
PB sounds like he could have been the inspiration for Toad of Toad Hall, from "The Wind in the Willows" by Kenneth Grahame (it being published in 1908).
Great job Rex, I recently discovered the channel and I love it. this quadruplane looks like something out of a cartoon "Dick Dastardly & Muttley in their Flying Machines"
STOP, the bomber! Stop, the bomber! Stop that Dornier now!
Thanks a lot Rex for the super cool video, I never get tired of flying boats and seaplanes. It is always a great pleasure to see a new video from the hangar, and when the result is as good as this, it's not hard to be patient while we wait for the next one. I can only imagine that it is a huge job to make the videos. You are doing a damn good job! PS. R. J. Mitchell actually looks a bit like Leslie Howard who plays him in the fine 1942 film "The First of the Few" also known as "Spitfire"
Excellent stuff. Thanks for the vid, Rex.
A queer thing that Scott-Paine, after having lost interest in Supermarine, went on to found the British Power Boat Company, where he designed incredible hydroplanes - first for racing / record-setting, then later on for the Navy.
His 70-ft and 72-ft Motor Gun Boats became nicknamed *'the Spitfires of the sea'* - which is brilliant considering he was long, long gone from Supermarine by the time the original Spitfire was conceived & developed. But at least he had been RJ Mitchell's boss for a time.
(Scott-Paine's hydroplane designs were also shared with the US-based Electric Boat Company, - Elco - who employed his designs and their design legacy in the production of their new 'Patrol craft, Torpedo' - the famed PT Boats. Does this mean JFK's PT Boat was a distant cousin of Douglas Bader's Spitfire?)
Thank You, Rex, for sweeping through the books and documents for us, keep it going, cause lots of ppl are really appreciating it!
Watching now. Can't wait!
Really enjoying this kind of video. Gives a very interesting overview of the early aviation industry
Another excellent & informative video.
Thanks.
Excellent video, thank you!
Your efforts are much appreciated and most informative Rex and interestingly presented. Your voice was swell as usual - calm and relaxing in a hectic world. Mitchell is one of my heroes and note of his input was appreciated. All the best for a quick and comfortable recovery. Keep up the much appreciated and educational efforts on topics rarely if ever explored which you present in a casual but intelligent manner. A+ mate (Aussie "Cheers").
Another cracking video! My late godfather's father worked at Supermarine in the 30s building walruses
Great work Rex thank you
Very interesting period of time. Innovation was fast, advances were leapfrogging. Must’ve been very exciting kind of like the space race now.
Amazing video. Well researched. It is obvious you put a lot of care into your videos. Well done!
Another great video! Keep up the fantastic work!
Thank You.
Great video
Terrific video, Rex! Now I know where "Supermarine" came from. This has puzzled me for a long time. Thanks very much! Roger in Wisconsin
Great production.
Good show!
Keep the videos up they are amazing
Very informative and detailed. 👍
The PB-25 must have been a real joy to get into and out of. The nose over aspect alone should have pilots run screaming from the hangar.
Great stuff. Thank you Rex.
Very much looking forward to your upcoming series on the _Schneider Trophy_ racing planes.
Fascinating and excellent informative video, thoroughly enjoyed watching . Thanks 👍
outstanding attention to detail as always!
Great video, very interesting. Thank you!
Excellent stuff bro
Wonderful details
Loving this new presentation style. Excellent research as always.
I never made the connection between the words _"airport"_ and _"aerial port."_
And I have worked in _Aviation_ -- mostly on the _'maintenance side of the house'_ -- for much of my adult life...😊
Loving the new video style.
Excellent, just excellent. Thanks for this (and all the others).
Very interesting and fun to learn about this great part of aviation history.
Anyone notice the theme? All their original attempts failed, and their most successful model (at the time) was a design given to them....the development was paid for by the military....and they got the idea for upgrading this design (the mk II) by a dissatisfied customer who made the engine change first. Makes me re-think my ideas of what it takes to run a successful business!
This postwar period of a/c survival against economic & official inertia is one of the most romantic. 💜
Great vid,well done.Thanks.
I was wondering about the Schneider Trophy planes as the video progressed. Great to hear you’ll eventually do a separate video on the races and the planes. It was definitely a significant time in aircraft designs.
---
Another great video here, thanks!
An excellent and informative video of a great early to mid 20th century aviation company.
Wish I could give these more than one like. Fantastic work.
I loved this video it is great! And I would love to see a part 2 about the later design's of supermarine.
*_"...and a handful of carrier pigeons."_*
TBH, that is NOT a line I was expecting to hear in an aviation-related video...😊
As usual a very informative and interesting video.
Excellent
very informative!
Thanks!
Excellent video, thank you for making it. And hope your health makes a full recovery soon.
Thanks for another interesting video
Great video! I hope you start feeling better soon. Long covid sucks.
Supermarine time!
Great video. Would love to see the next phase of Supermarine flying boats and especially the Walrus. Always found this plane and it's crews are ignored for their very important work.
Haha "notwithstanding my horrible indecisiveness " (I think I bungled the quote, but...)
Wonderful video. We really enjoy these. All your hard work has really paid off.
I always wondered why they named the company Supermarine.
Now I know it seems so obvious.
Thanks Rex.👍👍👍👍👍
14:43
I would like to wash my eyes with bleach
In the RAF Museum at Hendon there's the beautifully made hull of the slightly later but very similar Supermarine Southampton.
They have a complete Walrus too !
I would like a video on one of WW1’s most important/effective allied bomber. The caproni ca.3 and it’s variants including the ca.36. I have been building planes like this one in a video game ( simpleplanes) but for some reason I can’t find a lot of photos of the cockpit or it’s instrumentation (this is a recurring problem in my research. Ex. Albatross d.III, Macchi M.5, Gotha G.V, etc.). You seem to have a bit more resource at your disposal than me and I honestly would like a video on this aircraft. I mean it’s not really a conventional look by modern standards. Thanks for your consideration.
P.S. I’m sorry if that comment sounded a bit formal, I don’t really comment on videos very much so I try to get my point across in as few words as possible but often makes me sound… pretentious. Love the videos! Keep up the hard work so I can satisfy my aviation history itch! (Didn’t mean to type that out loud. Wait why am I still typing?!) Have a wonderful day Rex and we hope to hear from you soon!
god I love this channel
Absolutely first class deep dive video Rex - your best yet. I look forward to your video on the Schneider Trophy - I live in Bournemouth so i am seeing tempting glimpses of this in the background along with other local spots on the Isle of Wight and Southampton
Thank you.
Thanks! :D
..."and looks, only a mother could love" is one of the funniest Bonmots in the history of aviation! Keep going, Rex....and thanks!
Great documentary. I hope you are doing a good research because im taking your videos as the true.
Hello tremendous presentation I enjoyed very much saludos
"But despite being a visual horror, it was an overall improvement."
My parents have frequently said this exact thing about my journey through puberty.
The Spitfire was a very sexy aircraft, being from America I'm a P-51 fan. Then I did my research and found out that the Brits had a lot to do with that one also. Long live the king.
Sort of, the Brits wanted North America to produce the P40 for them, NA didnt want to license build another companies place so they designed the 51 to British specs. The whole engine thing is also overblown, yes the 2 stage Merlin was a great engine, but it became what it was by adapting the 2 stage tech that was already in use by the USN, and by using high octane fuel that the US gave them the key componets to produce.
Not to take away anything from the cousins across the pond, they do good work, but there was alot more of a back and forth exchange than is widely acknowledged
Those were amazing times, every year improving aerodynamics
What a crazy pace of development aeronautics was undertaking back then - fighters dated within two years, concept, design, construction, assemblage and take-off of new types within months and sometimes just weeks.. It took only 66 years from the first official powered flight to humans setting foot on the moon - and what once had been considered science-fiction became reality within a single human lifetime.
I'd personally love to see you do a video on the early history of Curtiss. Quite fascinating, IMO
Take _all_ the time you need to research and develop the Cup video. That was a development dynamo for aerial engineering, engine advancement, and a powerful prestige goal for all involved to bring home for their personal and national bragging rights.😎🏁
🍿😎👍 can't wait!
You should do a video on the p6m seamaster, it seems right up your alley.
Sorry to hear about your travails in the 'air' department...hope things get better..thanks for your contribution
P.B.7. is like the Jedi star fighters with the docking hyperspace ring. Cool.
This is kind of aeronautics adjacent but it would be interesting to know about Herman Goering and how he shaped the wwii Luftwaffe and what the pilots thought of him. Was he the dictator of the Luftwaffe or did he set the strategy and goals and let his subordinates figure out the details? You can find a lot of info on him in relation to Hitler and the Nazi party at large but not much about the details about how he ran the Luftwaffe. He was a legit wwi pilot having something like 22 kills and for a while the Luftwaffe dominated the skys. IDK maybe that info just isn’t available. Maybe that’s why no one talks about it but it would be really interesting to know. (I think this goes without saying but he was a terrible human being. I don’t want anyone to take my interest as adoration.)
The problem is that most info was collected post war where 99% of people were trying to distance themselves from the NAZI leadership, cold war politics dictated that West Germany was now a friend and the front line against Communism and many German officers were jockeying for NATO and Bundeswehr positions, so anything said needs taken with a grain of salt.
Thats said the general consensus is that Goering wasn't well liked (shocking.) He's said to get bored with dealing with Luftwaffe business and start prattling about "his" art collection or hunting or anything but Luftwaffe affairs. With many of his subordinates claiming that they, or their friends, were the true masterminds of the Luftwaffe's early success (because of course they were, see above comment.)
Prior to working for Supermarine RJ Mitchell worked at the same engineering works as my grandfather in Stoke-on-Trent, Kerr Stuart.
Saturday night sleep material
Relaxing interesting and good quality Audio and interesting
Subject.
Thanks 👍
THANKS..
The Nighthawk also has a brief appearance in James Gilbert's "World's Worst Aircraft".
5:38
Nonsense that such angle prevented enough thrust. If the angle was 10 degrees, it still had 98% of the forward thrust.
More likely problem was the downwash onto the wings. In that case, 10 degrees is more than enough to cause troubles.
Another excellent presentation, now I know where "airport" came from. If I wasn't already supporting 3 other youtubers with contributions every month, I'd gladly help you out.
Since I know the original location of the factory, I was always amazed that Supermarine ever went into something as wild as the Spitfire. After all their factory is basically a marina with a hangar. The slipway still exists, but the original buildings have long gone.
"so it flew like a plane and not like an intoxicated seagull" 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂