I have a Robot, and I love it. The things some people do to preheat look really offputting- the magic is the ease of use and the longevity (there is kind of NOTHING to break) I guess about 80 percent (or more) have just READ (or heard) about the heat problem, instead of just following their tastebuds. The robot does great even without preheat- but sure, you might get the last percent out of special beans only with preheating. On the other hand, the flair needs to preheat the PF as well (if one follows the same logic)- the Robot has no real PF, you fill hot water directly into the basket. Having a classic PF is just because people like it, you have accessories and so on...but it it actually not in the spirit of these types of machine. So not get me wrong, I am intrigued by the Flair 58 and I sometimes think about getting one, but the Robot is much more straight forward and does not try to be manual lever AND classic 58mm PF, which is a bit self limiting. Pros and cons, still a great device. And a great review
A video comparing it to the Robot would certainly be fun! :) Personally, I prefer manual espresso machines to remain free of electric components (electric parts tend to be the first to fail over time, which can affect the longevity of what could otherwise be a machine built to last for decades) And if I'm looking for a manual espresso machine without electric assistance, then Robot stands out to me for its simpler workflow (for preheating, overall shot preparation, or cleanup)
You don't need electricity to use the Flair 58 series. You can put in hot water, purge, and put in the hot water for the brew, the temperature you want. The Flair 58x has no heating element.
Great video! I love my Flair 58+2, the entire workflow is my daily 20 minutes of Zen. Zero maintenance and great tasting espresso. *Notes/Tips* - I use a 1ZPresso J-Ultra grinder and find the right setting for most beans is between 0.8 rotations to 1.0 rotations. - Mine came with two baskets, but the installed one was for beginners with coarser grounds. Make sure to switch it to the high flow straight walled basket if you grind your espresso properly. - Make sure to follow the printed instructions and do a second pull into a waste cup, this will ensure the brew chamber is clean and empty and the puck is nice and dry. - I agree with letting it sit with the water in it for a minute. I heat mine to high, and then let it sit for another minute or two after the beep. Add boiling water, let that sit for a minute, then do a few bars to preinfuse the puck for about 20 seconds. I let every hole in the portafilter fill, but not enough to drop, hold that for 20 seconds, then go for the pull, and I agree 6-8 bars varying as you go produces amazing tasting espresso. *Questions* - What portafilter holder is that at 17:43 ?
Been using the Flair 58+ for a couple of years now. The satisfaction is unparalleled! Great review of the upgraded version. Learnt a couple of things from your video. Thank you.
This is the best video about the Flair that I have seen, great work! I really appreciate how this channel provides tons of info while still keeping things as simple as possible and not going too far into the weeds which is where the coffee hobby starts to lose the fun imo. 👍
You guys are just killing it with the shots, the b roll, the lighting, and most importantly the writing. Top notch, and I can only imagine how much hard work went into this video.
I have a robot and love it. I love manual machines. The clean setup of the heater is very nice to see. I would love to see a full on comparison video between this and the robot. My robot might like a friend to handle light roasts.
Curious that, when talking about the need for pre-heating, he kept focusing on the Robot, which actually needs pre-heating less than any comparable lever machine that isn't actually electrically heated.
I bought the flair 58 plus 2 at the beginning of this year with the intent of slowing down and enjoying the process. We also bought the 1zpresso j ultra. This video has some awesome tips. I was so nervous about my first few shots I was pulling as I was also trying to dial in the manual grinder. A few weeks in and I feel like this machine is perfect for my family.
I have the 58 and my need to look for a replacement machine dropped to 0. It does everything I need and if I feel experimental and can play with it. Been waiting for the replacement base with the electronics to be available but extremely happy with mine and everyone who has had a coffee in the house has been blown away. 😂
The puck screen magnet tip is the most underrated tip in this video, why did I never think of that before?! Brilliant Ever since many years ago I had the first pro, before they had anything else, I’ve been wanting to go back. Now back then, the pro, was just to much fav pre-heating, cleaning, all these tiny bits. This new 58 seems to be a great deal. Now I just gotta figure out how I’ll meet my guests expectations of latte art cappuccino’s 🤔
The 2 things that made me buy the robot over the flair a couple of years ago are rarely ever mentioned on reviews: 1 - the clean up (a big part of the actual workflow in my book) is much easier and faster on the robot. 2 - the larger volume basket/"water container" on the robot will allow you to experiment with larger volumes/ratios. Some extra considerations: robot is cheaper and smaller with much fewer little parts to break and higher quality materials. The robot's design will fit much better in kitchens with a more "feminine and airy" vibe. The flair will fit better in more "masculine and modern" vibe. So the reasons to get the flair are pre-heat, modern vibe, compatibility with accessories and "the big one" in my book: ergonomics while pulling the shot. You will look a little silly pulling shots on the robot. If you want to look like a normal-ish person (for guests I guess) go for the flair
Totally agree! First I think the preheating, especially since the silicone plug was released preheating is easy even for light roasts. Second - You can pull a lot of fun stuff. From classic ristretto to soup shots almost everything is possible. Maybe the ceiling on the flair is a tad bit higher. I doubt that you will taste it unless you have a direct comparison and even then I wouldn't bet my money that you would be able to pick apart the shots in a blind taste. For almost half the price I think the robot is just such a high value that's really hard to beat if you enjoy the looks of it :)
Would like to see your take on the Argos by Odyssey because I do think for a bit more than a Flair 58 you get something way more interesting as you can steam milk and have the option of both spring and direct lever pulls. Not to mention the smarts.
Second this! I just got my Argos last September and I think there's a lot of crossover between the customer base for these machines. The 58 is by far more mechanically simple and will require almost no maintenance over many years. But for the effort of maintaining the Argos, you get a lot of handy features (PID, Spring option, boiler pre-infusion, and of course steaming).
If there is a way to turn off the AI translation feature for the titles, then please consider doing so. I‘m not sure it‘s this bad in every language, but translated to german the titles are actual gibberish now 💀
@@DaddyGotCoffee It seems to be deactived for all of your videos except those that came after the tiny grinders review from about a month ago, so the newest 5 to 6ish videos still have it for me
Looks like I have to go in manually and delete transcribed languages for videos that already had on it. SHOULD be done for this video now and disabled on new uploads. Will work my way through the other ones too - thanks for your help! Feel free to DM on IG too
Great job on the video man! I’ve had my 58+ for a year now, and have some Onyx Monarch (a darker Ethiopian-Colombian blend) I’m about to pull for the first time tomorrow! Never tried anything this dark, but I wanted to thins out what “traditional” espresso (as opposed to modern med-light) is like! Just picked up a J-Ultra to complement my X-Pro. The X does exceptionally well with light roasts for both pourover and espresso, while the J is said to do a great job with med-dark beans, highlighting chocolate, caramel, and brown sugar notes. And, just comparing the two with making filter coffee, I have found that to be the case over the last few weeks. It is amazing the difference in the taste of coffee that different grinders can make!
i honestly don't understand how you "forgot" to mention that one can buy "standard" Flair 58 which goes on sale ALL THE TIME, for about 500$. the differences between that and plus v2 are basically nicer aesthetics, as they both perform exactly the same when it comes to brewing espresso
I have a flair 58 that I love but I find myself reaching more for my flair pro 3. I just really enjoy the shots a bit more but when it comes down to using my toys (accessories) my 58 can't be beat. I also have a Rancilio Silvia M that makes very good coffee when especially when I'm in a hurry.
I'm literally waiting on mine to deliver. Ordered one 2 days ago. Going to sell my Bezzera E61. I've always been intrigued about lever machines after I had a great cup from one and now want something with more feedback and manual control. Ordered the Bookoo scale and sensor as well as a new kettle. Thanks for the review. There were still some new things I learned.
I wanted to "upgrade" from a breville barista pro. I wanted to make smoother and more flavorful espresso. I wanted this model of flair, but went with a cafelat robot instead for $445 with a discount code. I figure with that price it's a better machine than anything else. Probably comparable to a flair 58 even. Maybe just a slight step down, or even just different in its own way, but the flavor is incredible compared to the breville. I do love the control you get from a lever machine. Even "bad" espresso tastes incredible tbh. Anyways that's my story and what I went with on my recent coffee journey.
Really happy with my 58+, got it last year shortly before the Plus 2 came out. Interesting tip about leaving the water in for a minute, I'll check that out. I still feel like I have lots to explore. I'm enjoying turbo shots, how bright and shining they can be, "acidity-forward" as seems to be the lingo. But also I've fallen in love with Slayer style shots - really fine grind, pre-infusion for 25sec and then 9 bar for another 20-30sec. It just creates a dense pillow of sweet flavour with the acidity still there, but cushioned in a really complex and pleasant way. Love the bookoo scale and pressure gauge, with a T and a manual gauge still on view. That set-up does indeed give me the feeling I can pretty much do what I want, and record it, pushing pressure profiling in whichever way for each bag of beans, and have a record so I can see what I've done. I can freeze beans and come back to them, see where I got to with them and pick up where I left off - a lever profile for that house blend, a shiny turbo for those Kenyans, a Slayer for that Natural from Guatemala, and so on. It's not quite the data density and accurate repeatability of a Decent, I guess, but precisely the human, fallible hand-eye coordination gives you the feeling that you've made it, not an algorithm. And adjusting on the fly, which you describe well, is indeed a life-saver. There is some faff, the purging, getting the air out as you fill. But I'm thrilled with how far down the rabbit hole it has already got me, and I share your view that this system can accompany me for a long long time to come. Next stop Filter 2.0! Nice review.
Ive had the flair 58 as my daily driver for years, I just got this model and really like it. The only thing I was a little disappointed with was the power cord is considerably shorter than the older big brick model, for a lot of users that will not be a issue but with my setup I could not plug it in my floor outlet. Fortunately you can use the older big brick power cord as it has the same plug in.
I got mine a couple weeks ago to replace a consumer grade machine that failed after 2-1/2 years and is not repairable (GE CAFE). I paired it an old KitchenAid burr grinder, OXO kettle, the Flair scale and Breville frother because the wife likes a milk mustache with her coffee the morning. It is well made, simple to operate and maintain, has a cool retro look and works to do the job it is designed for. It takes a bit of pressure to achieve 8-9 bar and to do that I use my elbow and upper body mass + gravity to maintain pressure on the lever arm instead of trying to pull it down with a hand and arm. You actually feel like Guido at the cafe in Napoli pulling shot not some snotty Barista at Charbucks forcing you learn a new vocabulary to order a cup of coffee who thinks being able to pour milk in pretty patterns gives meaning to their lives. Me? I just want decent cup of coffee in the morning with the least amount of pre-caffeinated work involved. Leaning on a lever works for me. All things considered the morning ritual is simpler. By the time I get the coffee ground and tamped - nomacore tamper and screen work better than those supplied - the OXO kettle as the water up to temp. I pour milk into Breville frother then pour the water into the Flair and pull a 36g shot into two double-wall cups pouring one into the frothing milk still frothing milk water into mine an go sit in Eames chair and enjoy it. When the frother dings the wife gets hers. No more standing there steaming milk with a wand like trying to give a sample at the urologist office with it alternately screaming and farting. 😂 My only gripe is that it didn’t come standard with the 3-in-1 portafilter for splitting shots which I bought separately with a discount code they sent after purchasing the unit.
I recently started with being a coffee nerd and I bought a flair neo flex. Although the workflow is a bit cumbersome, I mostly have easy and acceptable shots through the adjustable pressure. You just feel it. That's why I'm thinking, if I upgrade to something more robust, to get the flair 58... It's a more traditional workflow and no preheating problem...
Definitely interested to see your thoughts on a head to head with the robot. I own the robot myself and wonder what I'm missing out on. The times I actually need to pre heat do complicate the workflow a little, but I think what drew me to the robot in the first place was the sheer mechanical simplicity of it, even compared to the flare. There is so little that can go wrong with it, and that inspires a sense of long term confidence as an owner. It'd be really cool if Paul made a V2 or plus model of the robot, there's a bunch of changes that I'd quite like to see (integrated pre heating element, base with inset for scales or drip tray, relocated pressure gauge, possibly longer levers). From what I've read though, this seems very unlikely, and to be fair some of these like the preheating element seem to be the antithesis of the peak simplicity and reliability vision that Paul had to begin with.
I have been using the J Ultra for over a year for the Flair 58+ till I got and seasoned the Timemore 078s. But I still prefer the J Ultra for some coffees where I prefer the conical burrs. So yes, the J Ultra should be good. You have to dial in the grind size depending upon the coffee and the roast profile that you are using.
I roast coffee (have worked professionally, in fact) and I prefer the J-ultra over a Mazzer Super Jolly or even the Major for espresso blends of any roast level. I prefer the Anfim Super Caimano for single origin light roast coffee, but the J-Ultra does the trick almost as well as a Robur for blends on the Flair 58. Incredible value.
I have an E61 machine and as my knowledge of espresso has increased, I've installed flow control, but I now realise the Flair is probably what I should he looking at.
As a Flair 58+ owner, I actually prefer the original pre-heat control design. I 3D-printed a case for a SwitchBot, which allows me to turn the Flair on and off remotely. While the +2 is definitely a more refined design-especially with the improved wiring and power supply-I feel it takes a step back in terms of automation. That aside, Justin, your reviews are always outstanding! Your accuracy, insightful examples, and stunning shots really set your content apart on RUclips. Keep up the amazing work!
Just wondering what the advantage of turning it on remotely is because it's not like a classic espresso machine that needs 20-50 mins to get up to temp.
@@robojimtv as mention in the other comment, first is the convenience of turning it on / off when not physically there, then in my experience while Flair 58+ arrives on temp in just a few mins I’ve actually got better results leaving it on for a good 10-15 minutes.
As usual, great video. I kept thinking about the robot and so happy you addressed it. I’m a happy robot owner, but was looking for a secondary coffee set up. I normally drink, medium and dark and so don’t care to preheat. I was wondering if you would recommend me go to the flare pro three that has their no - preheat basket? Or should I just push and stretch for this one?
Just a tip With the puck screen, drop it on the counter or cutting board. It won’t bend. It will cause the coffee flecks to break up from the filter As for using it, it makes clean up so much easier
Great review/overview! Just got mine today so it was perfect timing. Thank you! Since the unit preheats, could you just put cold water in the chamber and let the Flair heat it up while preheating? Skip buying a kettle and put the funds towards a nicer grinder? Lol
Great video Justin! Two questions - don’t suppose you use Beanconqueror and upload your shot graphs? I love hatch too and it’d be great to have a few examples to try and replicate on the robot! Second is when you do your robot preheat, you literally just plug the basket and fill it up, then lock it into the machine with the arms up, isn’t it? As in you don’t try to submerge the piston like the thundies preheat?
For lever machines, the Flair 58 seems to have an easier workflow for pulling multiple shots because of the heater element. How long do you have to wait between shots for the temperature to be right?
Two questions- what pick screen magnet is that? With the Flair 58+ I switched to the high flow Weber basket, and have been having problems with uneven extraction. I’m grinding fine with a nice grinder and using a shaker into portafter and tamping evenly no WDT. What would you suggest? Grind finer? Or coarser and drop temp?
Flair 58s have an issue with puck slope basically also when you pull down the handle the whole machine bends toward you ( head included ) but that seems to cause sometimes puck sloping basically taking the puck out you'll see a slope and your extractions will come towards the south of the puck constantly.
About the pre-heating routine. I preheat with the lever completely up as the heating blanket will better warm the piston. I also latch the porta filter in position to get it warmed. I usually give it a good 15 to 30 minutes to warm at #2 setting. I have a temperature probe sitting on the top of the piston for accurate reading. I pour boiling water into the chamber and the temperature usually shoots up to 96. I then set back the heater at #1 until the temperature drop to 92.2 and switch back to #2 setting at the same time I’m lifting the lever and transferring the water. The water reading stay constant at 92 as the volume is transferred. Obviously once the water is fully transferred, the temperature probe is no longer in contact with any water and therefore no longer reading properly but you are 35 seconds away from enjoying your espresso.
The lever up warm up is a great tip. Wish I had thought of that. Would recommend. That being said the water does come up to temp pretty quick when it’s sitting in there
Appreciate all of the tips! I have a manual espresso machine (MHW 3Bomber Sonic S7) and am having fun figuring it out. Definitely wish mine had a preheater.
Nicely presented! A bit curious about the workflow. How long would it take you to walk into your kitchen in the morning and make two identical espressos (presumably you and your wife)? Includes single-dose grinding, any preheating required (looks like a bit of a wait there), knocking out pucks and the normal cleaning and rinsing when done. Enjoyed the video.
@@DaddyGotCoffee Thanks! That's faster than I was imagining that process to be. Fascinating little device - the model you demonstrated is very appealing.
Done with Flair, like Bond, James Bond that is, exquisite, masterfully, and mysteriously, beautifully done, music, videography, superbly crafted and smoothly done.
Does anyone have experience with the old puck screen versua the new? I have always struggled with edge channeling with my 58 and I'm wondering if the new screen would help.
Might still get the robot over the flair 58+ just because of the durability of the robot and much less maintenance needed. Nice review. In our country, we don't usually use light roast beans for espresso. Sooo cafelat still! You can buy 2 cafelat with the price of 58 plus
A cafelat is $400-450 (in the US), not including tax, and a few weeks ago I got my 58+ for $501, including tax. The + and +2 flair models are basically the same. The only difference is the integration of the power button and power brick. Food for thought, a 58mm e61 portafilter, is worth the extra $50. You will save more than that on accessories vs. proprietary one-off style baskets that limit accessory options.
@JoshR-k9q x1 $700 flair 58 + x2 Cafelat $810 You save a lot with that $500ish flair price. I'm just being practically wise here. And for the taste(beans being used here mediumroast, 90c-95c, 18 grams), aeropress and flair 58 + have the same clarity, aeropress for my recipe can make same taste as flair 58 +, while the cafelat is more on richer body, the aeropress can't do. Still prefer cafelat over flair(even i love flair) soooo.
Thanks for this nice video. A few remarks and questions. The tip about letting the water sit, i will try out! i kinda beat it by always using the highest preheating setting, but this is probably better. Also a think i like about the flair is that because you can kinda always safe a 'bad' shot you will be fine not using to many utils. I do most shots without a scale, i just eye measure the amount of water i put it, i only use a scale for the more precious coffee's. What do you think about upgrading from the old v1 to the v2, any reason to? I really like the new base.
ive been begging flair to release this in white ever since the 58 came out. theyve done 3 iterations of this now i wish this could come out in white as well. ive had the pro2 for years and ive been meaning to upgrade for a while now i just wanna do back to back shots more efficiently!
Have you compared it to the Pro 3? I like that it comes with a case and I've heard from some Flair employees that if pulls better espresso. Since it wouldn't be my only espresso machine, it'd likely be more for travel than not.
Been waiting for this video, and it delivers as expected, really enjoy your content! How long does it approximately take to warn up the heating element?
Flair 58+ is on sale for $512, 20% off. Flair 58+2 is $685. The upgrades like integrated controller are nice, but I highly recommend people save that $173 and get the 58+ instead.
Would second the other comment here. Amazing espresso maker, extremely consistent. Because of the way it works the flair offers more flexibility (which can be a good or bad thing!) and the heating time for the 9barista slows down workflow
As regards preheating the Robot, what do you think about using the silicone plug for the portafilter basket which is now offered by Cafélat? You drop the plug into the bottom of the basket and install the portafilterfilter as you would for a shot, and let it sit there for a bit before you add coffee to it and pull your shot. Very easy and cheap. Effective enough for you?
@ I have the pressurized basket as well as the regular one, and the plug works for the pressurized as well as for the regular. So I can fill the basket I'm not using with hot water using the plug and preheat that way, then just switch it for the basket with coffee when I'm ready to brew. That won't apply to everyone of course. But for what it's worth…
They missed a big update in my opinion and that is the size of the brew chamber. The ability to pull longer ratios would have been a game changer, for me.
@@chris9923 That is a neat option and something that I'd do for experiments sake, but I still think a 120-150ml brew chamber would have made the 58 so much more versatile. Personally, I'm just going to switch to a semi-auto to pull 4:1+ shots because I have the option (at home). When at work I use the picopresso and leave the lid off and just continuously pour and pump. It took a while to work that out, but it does work (saw someone else do it first).
@@CoolJay77 If you mean toping up and raising the lever again and pulling back through the puck, people do that. I've tried it and it isn't for me. I want to go with a closer to linear pressure profile across the board. Don't get me wrong, I love my 58 for what it is! I use it for double ristrettos and even splitting triples for macchiatos paired with either the Nano foamer pro or a wand from my espresso machine (yeah, I know, that is kind of a weird thing to do, lol). Anyway, I do think that method could work for some!
I wish they would design it so the PSU is inside the machine without that external brick. Then it's just an IEC cable to the wall. Like all kitchen appliances. I will wait for Plus 3.
Hey Justin, a question for you, and for other 58+ owners: how do you rate the palm tamper? I have it but it’s my first 58mm tamper and I can’t tell if I’d have a much better experience with something else. I feel I can get it to work pretty well if I’m finicky enough. How do you find it?
Many people prefer a self leveling tamper that's a bit higher. But all that matters is to be level and be consistent in your pressure. The actual pressure doesn't really matter much. If you can do that it's fine.
Honestly, more than a comparison of the 58+2 v. Robot (because they both seem good so it comes down to preferences in aesthetic, work flow, and whether you really want electric heat), I'm curious about a good, comprehensive milk frother comparison since neither do steam. All the comparisons I've seen either act like only the Dreo and Nanofoamer exist or compare only Walmart/Target style brands like Ninja, Bodum, and Instant Pot - the thorough thoughtfulness you put in would be appreciated.
This is my end game. I’ll be getting maybe next year with a grinder! I had to settle for the oracle jet for now because no way I could get my wife to use this every morning lol
I hear you, there’s no way Sarah would use this. I make all the coffee, and if I think she might like one while I’m out I usually leave a cold shot that she can make an Americano with
@ I had the flair 2 years ago and I actually got her to used it….. once lol The Jet is stupidest I hate it. I hope that ass more settings in future firmware updates . The machine definitely has lots of potential
About the difference with the robot, many are subjective (for me the fact that there are no many accessories and I need just the self leveling 3d printed add in and a wdt tool is a pro) but it’s a fact that the difference in price is very high as in Europe at least is almost twice
I only do light roasts on my Cafelat Robot. I do not preheat, and the allonge shots I make are far better than any cafe I have ever been to. You don't need to buy fancy baskets or screens for the Robot. That is all just hype to seperate you from your money.
I’m also a robot user and predominantly brew light roasts. In that review I gave my routine and agree, the shots are great. The ceiling is a little higher in the 58 but it’s also a little more finicky, and that’s not saying the robot is bad.
@@DaddyGotCoffee Agreed. 100%. I just don't think people should always be chasing new equipment and after market baskets etc. You really dont need to be constantly upgrading to achieve really fine espresso. I also use a 20 year old mini mazzer, and will never feel the urge to "upgrade".
I read that as asking about the espresso cups? If so, they're the Kruve Propel. Pricier than many other options ($20 each, sold only in pairs) but I think worth it.
@@JefferyDL70ha! I’m curious as to what this is - I get asked “where I got my glasses” all the time and now I’m second guessing if I’ve been giving the right answer😂
Unless your always using light roasts I think the robot is better in every way. The 58 is my daily driver because I use light roasts but the robots build quality and workflow is far superior.
@@DaddyGotCoffee I prefer the flat piston as well. It’s heavier, which I felt improved thermal stability. The chamfered piston had issues with excessive side loading mid stroke, causing the crown to score the cylinder walls under high pressure. I’m glad they switched to this design.
@@craeeg you cant say this simplifies espresso than say skill issue. If it was actually that simplified than there'd be no issues. There's countless issues with the flair. A real simplification would be " oracle jet "
The snow in the background of the kitchen shot 2:36 is beautiful
Oh god 4:32 even bettet
When he shoots videos in the summer season, he'll need to get a snow machine installed outside for those viewers in the southern hemisphere!! :)
I have a Robot, and I love it. The things some people do to preheat look really offputting- the magic is the ease of use and the longevity (there is kind of NOTHING to break)
I guess about 80 percent (or more) have just READ (or heard) about the heat problem, instead of just following their tastebuds.
The robot does great even without preheat- but sure, you might get the last percent out of special beans only with preheating.
On the other hand, the flair needs to preheat the PF as well (if one follows the same logic)- the Robot has no real PF, you fill hot water directly into the basket. Having a classic PF is just because people like it, you have accessories and so on...but it it actually not in the spirit of these types of machine.
So not get me wrong, I am intrigued by the Flair 58 and I sometimes think about getting one, but the Robot is much more straight forward and does not try to be manual lever AND classic 58mm PF, which is a bit self limiting.
Pros and cons, still a great device.
And a great review
Agreed, almost 5 years with my Robot now, and as a dark roast drinker I have no need for all the extra heating tech in the Flair makers.
The snow in the window is perfect lol!
A video comparing it to the Robot would certainly be fun! :) Personally, I prefer manual espresso machines to remain free of electric components (electric parts tend to be the first to fail over time, which can affect the longevity of what could otherwise be a machine built to last for decades) And if I'm looking for a manual espresso machine without electric assistance, then Robot stands out to me for its simpler workflow (for preheating, overall shot preparation, or cleanup)
@electrichimp exactly! And I haven't seen any issues of cafelat than the flair :)
You don't need electricity to use the Flair 58 series. You can put in hot water, purge, and put in the hot water for the brew, the temperature you want.
The Flair 58x has no heating element.
Great presentation. Nice tip to let the hot water sit 60-90 second before pouring.
Great video! I love my Flair 58+2, the entire workflow is my daily 20 minutes of Zen. Zero maintenance and great tasting espresso.
*Notes/Tips*
- I use a 1ZPresso J-Ultra grinder and find the right setting for most beans is between 0.8 rotations to 1.0 rotations.
- Mine came with two baskets, but the installed one was for beginners with coarser grounds. Make sure to switch it to the high flow straight walled basket if you grind your espresso properly.
- Make sure to follow the printed instructions and do a second pull into a waste cup, this will ensure the brew chamber is clean and empty and the puck is nice and dry.
- I agree with letting it sit with the water in it for a minute. I heat mine to high, and then let it sit for another minute or two after the beep. Add boiling water, let that sit for a minute, then do a few bars to preinfuse the puck for about 20 seconds. I let every hole in the portafilter fill, but not enough to drop, hold that for 20 seconds, then go for the pull, and I agree 6-8 bars varying as you go produces amazing tasting espresso.
*Questions*
- What portafilter holder is that at 17:43 ?
Do you use the other 2 heat-range options?
Or “high” is a minimum
Been using the Flair 58+ for a couple of years now. The satisfaction is unparalleled!
Great review of the upgraded version. Learnt a couple of things from your video. Thank you.
Thanks for the kind words!
This is the best video about the Flair that I have seen, great work! I really appreciate how this channel provides tons of info while still keeping things as simple as possible and not going too far into the weeds which is where the coffee hobby starts to lose the fun imo. 👍
You guys are just killing it with the shots, the b roll, the lighting, and most importantly the writing. Top notch, and I can only imagine how much hard work went into this video.
I have a robot and love it. I love manual machines. The clean setup of the heater is very nice to see. I would love to see a full on comparison video between this and the robot. My robot might like a friend to handle light roasts.
I second this. I'm on the fence on which manual expresso machine to get.
Flair is good, and the cafelat is a must than flair.
(No wirings, less hassle, much portable =cafelat)
Curious that, when talking about the need for pre-heating, he kept focusing on the Robot, which actually needs pre-heating less than any comparable lever machine that isn't actually electrically heated.
@sirbuftontufton5846 Daddy is neutral with his review.
@@marqie589 I didn't say he wasn't.
I bought the flair 58 plus 2 at the beginning of this year with the intent of slowing down and enjoying the process. We also bought the 1zpresso j ultra.
This video has some awesome tips. I was so nervous about my first few shots I was pulling as I was also trying to dial in the manual grinder. A few weeks in and I feel like this machine is perfect for my family.
I have the 58 and my need to look for a replacement machine dropped to 0. It does everything I need and if I feel experimental and can play with it. Been waiting for the replacement base with the electronics to be available but extremely happy with mine and everyone who has had a coffee in the house has been blown away. 😂
The puck screen magnet tip is the most underrated tip in this video, why did I never think of that before?! Brilliant
Ever since many years ago I had the first pro, before they had anything else, I’ve been wanting to go back. Now back then, the pro, was just to much fav pre-heating, cleaning, all these tiny bits. This new 58 seems to be a great deal. Now I just gotta figure out how I’ll meet my guests expectations of latte art cappuccino’s 🤔
It's not underrated at all, everyone with brain doing that
You can use the subminimal nanofoamer to steam milk for lattes.
The 2 things that made me buy the robot over the flair a couple of years ago are rarely ever mentioned on reviews:
1 - the clean up (a big part of the actual workflow in my book) is much easier and faster on the robot.
2 - the larger volume basket/"water container" on the robot will allow you to experiment with larger volumes/ratios.
Some extra considerations: robot is cheaper and smaller with much fewer little parts to break and higher quality materials. The robot's design will fit much better in kitchens with a more "feminine and airy" vibe. The flair will fit better in more "masculine and modern" vibe.
So the reasons to get the flair are pre-heat, modern vibe, compatibility with accessories and "the big one" in my book: ergonomics while pulling the shot.
You will look a little silly pulling shots on the robot. If you want to look like a normal-ish person (for guests I guess) go for the flair
Totally agree! First I think the preheating, especially since the silicone plug was released preheating is easy even for light roasts. Second - You can pull a lot of fun stuff. From classic ristretto to soup shots almost everything is possible. Maybe the ceiling on the flair is a tad bit higher. I doubt that you will taste it unless you have a direct comparison and even then I wouldn't bet my money that you would be able to pick apart the shots in a blind taste.
For almost half the price I think the robot is just such a high value that's really hard to beat if you enjoy the looks of it :)
Fair point. Though the cleaning on these new flairs is a lot easier than it used to be. You don't have to disassemble it anymore.
Would like to see your take on the Argos by Odyssey because I do think for a bit more than a Flair 58 you get something way more interesting as you can steam milk and have the option of both spring and direct lever pulls. Not to mention the smarts.
Yeah I’d love to get my hands on an odyssey to review. Crazy machine
2nd this!
Wait time on the Argos is still 🆙 there 😢
Second this! I just got my Argos last September and I think there's a lot of crossover between the customer base for these machines. The 58 is by far more mechanically simple and will require almost no maintenance over many years. But for the effort of maintaining the Argos, you get a lot of handy features (PID, Spring option, boiler pre-infusion, and of course steaming).
It's a phenomenal espresso maker for the price. I've gotten some really amazing shots from it. Great video Justin!
If there is a way to turn off the AI translation feature for the titles, then please consider doing so. I‘m not sure it‘s this bad in every language, but translated to german the titles are actual gibberish now 💀
I THINK I just toggled this off for my whole channel after reading your comment. Let me know if not. Thank you!
@@DaddyGotCoffee It seems to be deactived for all of your videos except those that came after the tiny grinders review from about a month ago, so the newest 5 to 6ish videos still have it for me
Looks like I have to go in manually and delete transcribed languages for videos that already had on it. SHOULD be done for this video now and disabled on new uploads. Will work my way through the other ones too - thanks for your help! Feel free to DM on IG too
@@DaddyGotCoffeei still see the german translation 😢
Yes
Great job on the video man!
I’ve had my 58+ for a year now, and have some Onyx Monarch (a darker Ethiopian-Colombian blend) I’m about to pull for the first time tomorrow!
Never tried anything this dark, but I wanted to thins out what “traditional” espresso (as opposed to modern med-light) is like!
Just picked up a J-Ultra to complement my X-Pro. The X does exceptionally well with light roasts for both pourover and espresso, while the J is said to do a great job with med-dark beans, highlighting chocolate, caramel, and brown sugar notes. And, just comparing the two with making filter coffee, I have found that to be the case over the last few weeks.
It is amazing the difference in the taste of coffee that different grinders can make!
i honestly don't understand how you "forgot" to mention that one can buy "standard" Flair 58 which goes on sale ALL THE TIME, for about 500$. the differences between that and plus v2 are basically nicer aesthetics, as they both perform exactly the same when it comes to brewing espresso
I have a flair 58 that I love but I find myself reaching more for my flair pro 3. I just really enjoy the shots a bit more but when it comes down to using my toys (accessories) my 58 can't be beat. I also have a Rancilio Silvia M that makes very good coffee when especially when I'm in a hurry.
Great review as always. Your channel is so underrated.
5:36 what tamping cradle is that? I really like it!
It’s from Basics Machine Shop in Canada! Also available via Eight Ounce Coffee
I'm literally waiting on mine to deliver. Ordered one 2 days ago. Going to sell my Bezzera E61. I've always been intrigued about lever machines after I had a great cup from one and now want something with more feedback and manual control.
Ordered the Bookoo scale and sensor as well as a new kettle.
Thanks for the review. There were still some new things I learned.
I wanted to "upgrade" from a breville barista pro. I wanted to make smoother and more flavorful espresso. I wanted this model of flair, but went with a cafelat robot instead for $445 with a discount code. I figure with that price it's a better machine than anything else. Probably comparable to a flair 58 even. Maybe just a slight step down, or even just different in its own way, but the flavor is incredible compared to the breville. I do love the control you get from a lever machine. Even "bad" espresso tastes incredible tbh. Anyways that's my story and what I went with on my recent coffee journey.
Really happy with my 58+, got it last year shortly before the Plus 2 came out. Interesting tip about leaving the water in for a minute, I'll check that out.
I still feel like I have lots to explore. I'm enjoying turbo shots, how bright and shining they can be, "acidity-forward" as seems to be the lingo.
But also I've fallen in love with Slayer style shots - really fine grind, pre-infusion for 25sec and then 9 bar for another 20-30sec. It just creates a dense pillow of sweet flavour with the acidity still there, but cushioned in a really complex and pleasant way.
Love the bookoo scale and pressure gauge, with a T and a manual gauge still on view.
That set-up does indeed give me the feeling I can pretty much do what I want, and record it, pushing pressure profiling in whichever way for each bag of beans, and have a record so I can see what I've done. I can freeze beans and come back to them, see where I got to with them and pick up where I left off - a lever profile for that house blend, a shiny turbo for those Kenyans, a Slayer for that Natural from Guatemala, and so on.
It's not quite the data density and accurate repeatability of a Decent, I guess, but precisely the human, fallible hand-eye coordination gives you the feeling that you've made it, not an algorithm. And adjusting on the fly, which you describe well, is indeed a life-saver.
There is some faff, the purging, getting the air out as you fill. But I'm thrilled with how far down the rabbit hole it has already got me, and I share your view that this system can accompany me for a long long time to come. Next stop Filter 2.0!
Nice review.
Ive had the flair 58 as my daily driver for years, I just got this model and really like it. The only thing I was a little disappointed with was the power cord is considerably shorter than the older big brick model, for a lot of users that will not be a issue but with my setup I could not plug it in my floor outlet. Fortunately you can use the older big brick power cord as it has the same plug in.
I got mine a couple weeks ago to replace a consumer grade machine that failed after 2-1/2 years and is not repairable (GE CAFE). I paired it an old KitchenAid burr grinder, OXO kettle, the Flair scale and Breville frother because the wife likes a milk mustache with her coffee the morning.
It is well made, simple to operate and maintain, has a cool retro look and works to do the job it is designed for. It takes a bit of pressure to achieve 8-9 bar and to do that I use my elbow and upper body mass + gravity to maintain pressure on the lever arm instead of trying to pull it down with a hand and arm. You actually feel like Guido at the cafe in Napoli pulling shot not some snotty Barista at Charbucks forcing you learn a new vocabulary to order a cup of coffee who thinks being able to pour milk in pretty patterns gives meaning to their lives. Me? I just want decent cup of coffee in the morning with the least amount of pre-caffeinated work involved. Leaning on a lever works for me.
All things considered the morning ritual is simpler. By the time I get the coffee ground and tamped - nomacore tamper and screen work better than those supplied - the OXO kettle as the water up to temp. I pour milk into Breville frother then pour the water into the Flair and pull a 36g shot into two double-wall cups pouring one into the frothing milk still frothing milk water into mine an go sit in Eames chair and enjoy it. When the frother dings the wife gets hers. No more standing there steaming milk with a wand like trying to give a sample at the urologist office with it alternately screaming and farting. 😂 My only gripe is that it didn’t come standard with the 3-in-1 portafilter for splitting shots which I bought separately with a discount code they sent after purchasing the unit.
I recently started with being a coffee nerd and I bought a flair neo flex. Although the workflow is a bit cumbersome, I mostly have easy and acceptable shots through the adjustable pressure. You just feel it.
That's why I'm thinking, if I upgrade to something more robust, to get the flair 58...
It's a more traditional workflow and no preheating problem...
Definitely interested to see your thoughts on a head to head with the robot. I own the robot myself and wonder what I'm missing out on. The times I actually need to pre heat do complicate the workflow a little, but I think what drew me to the robot in the first place was the sheer mechanical simplicity of it, even compared to the flare. There is so little that can go wrong with it, and that inspires a sense of long term confidence as an owner.
It'd be really cool if Paul made a V2 or plus model of the robot, there's a bunch of changes that I'd quite like to see (integrated pre heating element, base with inset for scales or drip tray, relocated pressure gauge, possibly longer levers). From what I've read though, this seems very unlikely, and to be fair some of these like the preheating element seem to be the antithesis of the peak simplicity and reliability vision that Paul had to begin with.
is the 1zpresso j-ultra espresso hand grinder sufficiently good to pair with the flair? Debating purchasing the robot or the Flair 58.
I have been using the J Ultra for over a year for the Flair 58+ till I got and seasoned the Timemore 078s. But I still prefer the J Ultra for some coffees where I prefer the conical burrs. So yes, the J Ultra should be good. You have to dial in the grind size depending upon the coffee and the roast profile that you are using.
@@KrishnenduKes Thanks for the note and advice!
I roast coffee (have worked professionally, in fact) and I prefer the J-ultra over a Mazzer Super Jolly or even the Major for espresso blends of any roast level. I prefer the Anfim Super Caimano for single origin light roast coffee, but the J-Ultra does the trick almost as well as a Robur for blends on the Flair 58. Incredible value.
@ Totally agree. That said, for very light roasts, it is quite a workout!
I have an E61 machine and as my knowledge of espresso has increased, I've installed flow control, but I now realise the Flair is probably what I should he looking at.
Great video ! I'm wondering..how much "muscle" does it take to use the lever ?
As a Flair 58+ owner, I actually prefer the original pre-heat control design. I 3D-printed a case for a SwitchBot, which allows me to turn the Flair on and off remotely. While the +2 is definitely a more refined design-especially with the improved wiring and power supply-I feel it takes a step back in terms of automation.
That aside, Justin, your reviews are always outstanding! Your accuracy, insightful examples, and stunning shots really set your content apart on RUclips. Keep up the amazing work!
Hi! Can you share more details? I’m about to buy one and if the f58 original works better than I might save some money and get it
Just wondering what the advantage of turning it on remotely is because it's not like a classic espresso machine that needs 20-50 mins to get up to temp.
@@robojimtv as mention in the other comment, first is the convenience of turning it on / off when not physically there, then in my experience while Flair 58+ arrives on temp in just a few mins I’ve actually got better results leaving it on for a good 10-15 minutes.
Awesome video, really enjoy watching all your content.
Thank you!
As usual, great video. I kept thinking about the robot and so happy you addressed it.
I’m a happy robot owner, but was looking for a secondary coffee set up. I normally drink, medium and dark and so don’t care to preheat. I was wondering if you would recommend me go to the flare pro three that has their no - preheat basket? Or should I just push and stretch for this one?
Just a tip
With the puck screen, drop it on the counter or cutting board. It won’t bend. It will cause the coffee flecks to break up from the filter
As for using it, it makes clean up so much easier
Drop it on its edge. Drop it flat. Basically the vibrations separate the flecks from the filter
Great review/overview! Just got mine today so it was perfect timing. Thank you! Since the unit preheats, could you just put cold water in the chamber and let the Flair heat it up while preheating? Skip buying a kettle and put the funds towards a nicer grinder? Lol
Does the hook that catch the piston still with the little plastic thing?
Great video Justin! Two questions - don’t suppose you use Beanconqueror and upload your shot graphs? I love hatch too and it’d be great to have a few examples to try and replicate on the robot! Second is when you do your robot preheat, you literally just plug the basket and fill it up, then lock it into the machine with the arms up, isn’t it? As in you don’t try to submerge the piston like the thundies preheat?
How would this compare to a lelit bianca?
For lever machines, the Flair 58 seems to have an easier workflow for pulling multiple shots because of the heater element. How long do you have to wait between shots for the temperature to be right?
Two questions- what pick screen magnet is that?
With the Flair 58+ I switched to the high flow Weber basket, and have been having problems with uneven extraction. I’m grinding fine with a nice grinder and using a shaker into portafter and tamping evenly no WDT. What would you suggest? Grind finer? Or coarser and drop temp?
Is it almost maintenance free?
Flair 58s have an issue with puck slope basically also when you pull down the handle the whole machine bends toward you ( head included ) but that seems to cause sometimes puck sloping basically taking the puck out you'll see a slope and your extractions will come towards the south of the puck constantly.
About the pre-heating routine.
I preheat with the lever completely up as the heating blanket will better warm the piston.
I also latch the porta filter in position to get it warmed.
I usually give it a good 15 to 30 minutes to warm at #2 setting.
I have a temperature probe sitting on the top of the piston for accurate reading.
I pour boiling water into the chamber and the temperature usually shoots up to 96.
I then set back the heater at #1 until the temperature drop to 92.2 and switch back to #2 setting at the same time I’m lifting the lever and transferring the water.
The water reading stay constant at 92 as the volume is transferred.
Obviously once the water is fully transferred, the temperature probe is no longer in contact with any water and therefore no longer reading properly but you are 35 seconds away from enjoying your espresso.
The lever up warm up is a great tip. Wish I had thought of that. Would recommend. That being said the water does come up to temp pretty quick when it’s sitting in there
@@DaddyGotCoffee Flair CS recommend leaving the lever up for 10-15 minutes even after it beeps
Appreciate all of the tips! I have a manual espresso machine (MHW 3Bomber Sonic S7) and am having fun figuring it out. Definitely wish mine had a preheater.
Nicely presented! A bit curious about the workflow. How long would it take you to walk into your kitchen in the morning and make two identical espressos (presumably you and your wife)? Includes single-dose grinding, any preheating required (looks like a bit of a wait there), knocking out pucks and the normal cleaning and rinsing when done. Enjoyed the video.
I’m about 4-5 minutes per shot if I’m not rushing
@@DaddyGotCoffee Thanks! That's faster than I was imagining that process to be. Fascinating little device - the model you demonstrated is very appealing.
Done with Flair, like Bond, James Bond that is, exquisite, masterfully, and mysteriously, beautifully done, music, videography, superbly crafted and smoothly done.
Thank you for the kind words!
Where are the Kickstarter backers at?
thoguhts on a Flair pro 3 and Baratza Encore ESP setup?
Love to hear your thoughts on this thank you was wondering if you’ve done a similar video on the Cremina or plan on it
I do plan on it 👀
Which burrs did you have in the Zerno for your shot(s)? Thanks for the vid!
HU!
Does anyone have experience with the old puck screen versua the new? I have always struggled with edge channeling with my 58 and I'm wondering if the new screen would help.
Fantastic tips and video cannot wait to try. Beautiful portafilter stand where can I find it. Thank you.
The Robot works really cool. And looks great on my counter.
Might still get the robot over the flair 58+ just because of the durability of the robot and much less maintenance needed. Nice review.
In our country, we don't usually use light roast beans for espresso. Sooo cafelat still! You can buy 2 cafelat with the price of 58 plus
May I ask what country would that be?
A cafelat is $400-450 (in the US), not including tax, and a few weeks ago I got my 58+ for $501, including tax.
The + and +2 flair models are basically the same. The only difference is the integration of the power button and power brick.
Food for thought, a 58mm e61 portafilter, is worth the extra $50. You will save more than that on accessories vs. proprietary one-off style baskets that limit accessory options.
@JoshR-k9q
x1 $700 flair 58 +
x2 Cafelat $810
You save a lot with that $500ish flair price.
I'm just being practically wise here.
And for the taste(beans being used here mediumroast, 90c-95c, 18 grams), aeropress and flair 58 + have the same clarity, aeropress for my recipe can make same taste as flair 58 +, while the cafelat is more on richer body, the aeropress can't do.
Still prefer cafelat over flair(even i love flair) soooo.
@@CoolJay77 Philippines 🇵🇭
@@JoshR-k9q enjoy your flair.
Cheers!
Thanks for this nice video. A few remarks and questions. The tip about letting the water sit, i will try out! i kinda beat it by always using the highest preheating setting, but this is probably better. Also a think i like about the flair is that because you can kinda always safe a 'bad' shot you will be fine not using to many utils. I do most shots without a scale, i just eye measure the amount of water i put it, i only use a scale for the more precious coffee's.
What do you think about upgrading from the old v1 to the v2, any reason to? I really like the new base.
High extraction baskets haven’t been working well for me on the Flair
What would be the level of burr grinder that would start to do a good job with the 58+2?
ive been begging flair to release this in white ever since the 58 came out. theyve done 3 iterations of this now i wish this could come out in white as well. ive had the pro2 for years and ive been meaning to upgrade for a while now i just wanna do back to back shots more efficiently!
H. Ford: "Any customer can have a car painted any color that he wants so long as it's black."
It might be hard to get it right and to stay white. White rubber can discolor easily for example.
Have you compared it to the Pro 3? I like that it comes with a case and I've heard from some Flair employees that if pulls better espresso. Since it wouldn't be my only espresso machine, it'd likely be more for travel than not.
Get a strietman ct2. Better temp stability, and no need for another machine for boiling water. 49mm so easier shots/ less chance of channeling
Robot sells a simple silicone plug that allows simple preheat as well, but that is a weakness but is a mechanical weakness on the flair.
Been waiting for this video, and it delivers as expected, really enjoy your content!
How long does it approximately take to warn up the heating element?
Give it 15 minutes with the lever up and you're good.
Thanks 😁
Flair 58+ is on sale for $512, 20% off. Flair 58+2 is $685. The upgrades like integrated controller are nice, but I highly recommend people save that $173 and get the 58+ instead.
How do you think this compares to the 9barista? I'm a moka pot person, so the 9barista has always been appealing to me.
9barista is a very great constant device, however for back to back shots its more of a struggle.
Would second the other comment here. Amazing espresso maker, extremely consistent. Because of the way it works the flair offers more flexibility (which can be a good or bad thing!) and the heating time for the 9barista slows down workflow
As regards preheating the Robot, what do you think about using the silicone plug for the portafilter basket which is now offered by Cafélat? You drop the plug into the bottom of the basket and install the portafilterfilter as you would for a shot, and let it sit there for a bit before you add coffee to it and pull your shot. Very easy and cheap. Effective enough for you?
Easier but you have to dump and dry the basket before filling with coffee. I finally got my plug a few weeks ago.
@ I have the pressurized basket as well as the regular one, and the plug works for the pressurized as well as for the regular. So I can fill the basket I'm not using with hot water using the plug and preheat that way, then just switch it for the basket with coffee when I'm ready to brew. That won't apply to everyone of course. But for what it's worth…
It looks like there's not a lot of room for common sized scales. Will need a more espresso dedicated one to fit that base?
About 10x10 cm max. The Acaia Lunar fits, so does the smaller Bookoo.
For some reason I'm getting more and more interested in direct lever machines
They missed a big update in my opinion and that is the size of the brew chamber. The ability to pull longer ratios would have been a game changer, for me.
For such longer shots, I wonder whether pulling the lever up and adding more hot water will ruin the pour?
Not a cheap option, but the Sworks Stepdown gives you a lot more water.
@@chris9923 That is a neat option and something that I'd do for experiments sake, but I still think a 120-150ml brew chamber would have made the 58 so much more versatile. Personally, I'm just going to switch to a semi-auto to pull 4:1+ shots because I have the option (at home). When at work I use the picopresso and leave the lid off and just continuously pour and pump. It took a while to work that out, but it does work (saw someone else do it first).
@@CoolJay77 If you mean toping up and raising the lever again and pulling back through the puck, people do that. I've tried it and it isn't for me. I want to go with a closer to linear pressure profile across the board.
Don't get me wrong, I love my 58 for what it is! I use it for double ristrettos and even splitting triples for macchiatos paired with either the Nano foamer pro or a wand from my espresso machine (yeah, I know, that is kind of a weird thing to do, lol).
Anyway, I do think that method could work for some!
Thermal management is flairs issue. But I'm a big cafelat robot fan. I had a flair (old neo) for almost a year.
what grinder do you have ?
Zerno Z1
I am curious what is the grinder?
Looks like a Zerno Z1.
I wish they would design it so the PSU is inside the machine without that external brick. Then it's just an IEC cable to the wall. Like all kitchen appliances.
I will wait for Plus 3.
Excellent video. I would like to see the Brua3 Max reviewed too!
I love the Flair 58, but how does it compare to the 9Barista in terms of cup quality?
The 9 barista makes an incredible cup but within very specific parameters. The 58 offers more flexibility but also more opportunity to mess things up
6:26 I want that puck screen magnet!! Any links please? 😅
It’s actually a Zerno Burr puller 🫣
@@DaddyGotCoffeeah that’s lovely!
wow. great review. sold.
So where does this stack up against the cafelat robot?
Great video. I have a Quick Mill Pop Up and a Flair 58+ in my shopping cart. Wish I could buy both!!
what did you do?
Hey Justin, a question for you, and for other 58+ owners: how do you rate the palm tamper? I have it but it’s my first 58mm tamper and I can’t tell if I’d have a much better experience with something else. I feel I can get it to work pretty well if I’m finicky enough. How do you find it?
Many people prefer a self leveling tamper that's a bit higher. But all that matters is to be level and be consistent in your pressure. The actual pressure doesn't really matter much. If you can do that it's fine.
Honestly, more than a comparison of the 58+2 v. Robot (because they both seem good so it comes down to preferences in aesthetic, work flow, and whether you really want electric heat), I'm curious about a good, comprehensive milk frother comparison since neither do steam. All the comparisons I've seen either act like only the Dreo and Nanofoamer exist or compare only Walmart/Target style brands like Ninja, Bodum, and Instant Pot - the thorough thoughtfulness you put in would be appreciated.
This is my end game. I’ll be getting maybe next year with a grinder! I had to settle for the oracle jet for now because no way I could get my wife to use this every morning lol
I hear you, there’s no way Sarah would use this. I make all the coffee, and if I think she might like one while I’m out I usually leave a cold shot that she can make an Americano with
@ I had the flair 2 years ago and I actually got her to used it….. once lol
The Jet is stupidest I hate it. I hope that ass more settings in future firmware updates . The machine definitely has lots of potential
I love the concept of my flair. But the alignment is so bad I have to constantly disassemble the machine and rotate the piston.
Thanks for dropping this experience. Just curious, what version? I had this issue with the OG but not the + or +2
Ok $700? Im a snob about many things but this is next level. Feel free to hate on me
Excellent run through...
Of course it's not a love affair like Euro Piccola...❤
I’m working on a cremina and would love to do the LPs as well
Silly channel name for such good content😮
Would love to see it go head to head to the newton brue max 3 and cafelat robot!!
About the difference with the robot, many are subjective (for me the fact that there are no many accessories and I need just the self leveling 3d printed add in and a wdt tool is a pro) but it’s a fact that the difference in price is very high as in Europe at least is almost twice
Great idea for a traveler.
I only do light roasts on my Cafelat Robot. I do not preheat, and the allonge shots I make are far better than any cafe I have ever been to. You don't need to buy fancy baskets or screens for the Robot. That is all just hype to seperate you from your money.
I’m also a robot user and predominantly brew light roasts. In that review I gave my routine and agree, the shots are great.
The ceiling is a little higher in the 58 but it’s also a little more finicky, and that’s not saying the robot is bad.
@@DaddyGotCoffee Agreed. 100%. I just don't think people should always be chasing new equipment and after market baskets etc. You really dont need to be constantly upgrading to achieve really fine espresso. I also use a 20 year old mini mazzer, and will never feel the urge to "upgrade".
Ok I’ve asked a few different places because I’m dying to know. What glasses are those?
They’re from Warby Parker!
@ they look awesome! I’m going to have to check it out!
I read that as asking about the espresso cups? If so, they're the Kruve Propel. Pricier than many other options ($20 each, sold only in pairs) but I think worth it.
@@JefferyDL70ha! I’m curious as to what this is - I get asked “where I got my glasses” all the time and now I’m second guessing if I’ve been giving the right answer😂
Unless your always using light roasts I think the robot is better in every way. The 58 is my daily driver because I use light roasts but the robots build quality and workflow is far superior.
4:36 Looks like they reverted back to the flat piston.
Was that the original design? My champfered piston on the 58+ dribbles water through. I prefer the flat even though it drops the water more centrally
@@DaddyGotCoffee I prefer the flat piston as well. It’s heavier, which I felt improved thermal stability. The chamfered piston had issues with excessive side loading mid stroke, causing the crown to score the cylinder walls under high pressure. I’m glad they switched to this design.
It's easy up to 1:2 ratio, but to take 1:3 (50g) ratio, it's annoying to raise the lever and pour additional water.
I don’t have an issue up to like 50-55ml, but that’s tops on a single pull. I really fill the chamber as much as possible.
I also never had issues with 50 to 55ml. Just make sure you really let all the air out and fill the chamber completely.
Skill issue
@@craeeg you cant say this simplifies espresso than say skill issue. If it was actually that simplified than there'd be no issues. There's countless issues with the flair. A real simplification would be " oracle jet "
They really need to make a white version of this
Def would not complain about this! Let’s make it happen!
Flair 58+2 electric boogaloo
Just need a independent steam wand
I can recommend a LaPavoni....
Flair 58 owner here. This is the best flair 58 review on YT. Thanks