Solar Imaging Tutorial: Data Acquisition, Alignment & Processing
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- Опубликовано: 26 июл 2024
- In this basic tutorial we explore the process of solar imaging in hydrogen alpha wavelength, from data acquisition to alignment of video to the processing of the output images from the video. This tutorial is meant to help new imagers to the processes, software and methods of acquiring data and using it to create images. Please leave constructive criticism and/or corrections, I'm not perfect and I'm sure there are mistakes!
Visit us on CloudyNights in the Solar Observing & Imaging forum.
Software used in tutorial:
SharpCap (free)
Registax6 (free)
Autostakkert!2 (free)
Photoshop CS5
Music credit: TimeCop1983 (find them on BandCamp)
Captured with FlashBack Express (free)
Processed with VSDC (free) 
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Im new to solar imaging, and I couldn't have asked for a better tutorial. Thank you very much for putting all the things together so well.
Thanks, glad it helped, check out my newer ones for more!
Thanks for the great tutorial! I’m looking forward to trying this when the rest of my gear arrives. Love TimeCop 1983 too!
I just wanted to say thank you so much for posting this video. Using this video I finally got some awesome images of a huge prominence today with my setup. I seriously couldn't have done it without having watched this video first.
Thanks, I'm glad it was helpful and look forward to seeing your work! I have newer processing videos available as well, take a look in the channel! :)
Very nice walk thro. Beautiful final image. Regards.
I thought , you`ll never stop sharpening . Fantastic tutorial for the novice . Thanks a lot !!
Just wanted to say thanks again for this video. I used it nearly step-for-step yesterday and in FAR shorter time than I would have otherwise came up with a very nice image. You saved me a ton of time reading / tinkering. Thank you.
Yessir, thanks!
Thank you for taking the time to do this. I just placed an order for a SolarMax lll 70mm, Double Stacked with a 15mm blocking filter, so I'm sure I will be coming back to this quite often. Thanks again!
Thanks, and enjoy your excellent scope, the SMIII series is such a great versatile scope!
I've been imaging deep sky for about a year and have never been sure about solar. Awesome video that will totally put me on track. Cheers!
Thanks!
@@malsYT Would I be able to get somewhat similar details if using a standard refractor (Skywatcher ED80) with a solar filter over the lens hood + a Ha (7nm) filter and a monochrome camera?
@@driftrazor hello, unfortunately no, 7nm is too wide and would only show the photo sphere in white light. You have to be at 1 angstrom or better sub angstrom to see the chromosphere, 1 angstrom is 0.1nm
@@malsYT ...looks like now I'll have to start another fund for a solar scope setup! Thanks mate.
I am so pleased to have found your tutorial. Very clear instructions have helped me immensely in my solar imaging. Thank you!
Thanks, glad to help!
Fascinating stuff. Thanks for sharing your process.
Great set of videos you have done! I stumbled onto them looking for information about flat field generation in smaller FOV scopes (80mm) and found that you were a great source of information about solar imaging in general.
Thanks!
Good taste in music! I love that album
I don't have what it takes to do all that, STUNNING.
Marty,
By far the best tutorial for processing solar images till now. Simply awesome, big thanks.
Thank you sir, just trying to give back.
Great walk-through! Very cool to see your entire process after seeing so many of the finished images.
Yessir, it's a smooth transitions to do it all once you've done it a few times. That's the aim here, as I get a lot of questions about how to do it. How'd you find it? Did it pop up somewhere?
I'm subscribed to this channel so it just popped up in my feed. When I became subscribed is a bit of a mystery... Must be from waaay back.
Wow, yea, probably from like 7~8 years ago!
Extremely helpful video. Thanks so much for making this.
Such a great video with easily explained processes. Thank you so much for this.
Thanks!
I have been waiting for years for someone to take me through the steps with sound, understanding. Nothing left me confused. Thank you.
Thanks! Glad it was helpful!
@@malsYT I ran into a brick wall when I loaded a prom into Autostakkert. It would not let me draw along the limb and prom at all. It would not stack as it did with the surface I have Autostakkert 3. I think I might have to use autostakkert 2.6?
@@drakeequation521 Hi, make sure you have AS!3 set to surface and not planetary for everything. Click each alignment point (AP), not drag & draw (just in case you tried that).
@@malsYT With AS!3 I did have it set to surface and not planetary. With the surface image it does fine but failed to allow me to do the same with the prom. The AS!2.6.8 does allow me to do that. I have a Windows8.1 laptop and it does have trouble with a lot of software.
@@drakeequation521 That's strange; you can also try Registax 6 for the prominence image if you need to. AS!3 can usually handle it all, but if for some odd reason it cannot, it may be due to some issues in the data to begin with (wind gusts, things passing through the data that greatly alter the luminosity, birds flying through, etc, the area of interest in the anchor point moving out of alignable area, etc. If AS!2X works or Registax 6 works, then at least you can get some data to work with. It's possible sometimes that data just won't align or work properly; keep in mind this software is totally one-man-developed-supported! :)
Great video. You are a wonderful instructor. Precise explanations and easy to follow. Very smooth coordination of the screen selections with no wasted time that I have seen in some other on-line videos. Also your speech is perfect - Very clear, not monotonous but not overly dramatic. Looking forward to applying the information with my new Solar setup. The only minor point that I did not care for was the background music was a tiny bit distracting to me. Nothing wrong with the musical selection - it’s just that I don’t care to have background noise when listening to a speaker and trying to focus. Just my personal preference. Thanks again for taking your time to make an excellent instructional video.
Thanks Bob!
That is am extrordinary tutorial! Thank you, sir!
Thank you!
Wow! Just what I needed to see. Great production values, well documented and well spoken, and hugely informative. A great help to me as I am starting out in solar astrophotography.
Thanks, glad it helps!
Great video, great image... but... are we gonna just ignore the way he said "orion" in the beginning??
ahaha omg
Thanks for the tutorial. Very clear and easy to understand. Look forward to the Lunat Tutorial.
Thanks!
Awesome tutorial! Thank you.
Just starting with solar imaging, this video was very helpful, thanks !
Thanks!
Fantastic info and video!! wow! Thank you!!
Thanks!
Great job on this tutorial!
Fantastic tutorial Marty!
Thanks!
That was awesome. Congratulations
This is super helpful! Amazing video. I have a Quark Chromosphere on order so this will really get me up and running. Thank you!!
Thanks!
Something to aim for. Great job.
Thanks!
This is a great tutorial, especially the flats calibration.
Thanks! Glad it was helpful!
Great informative video. Your Or-ee-on pronunciation threw me. I use Orion...Or-I-On. ;)
Thanks!
Outstanding video. I always enjoy your images.
Thanks!
Not sure if you're still at it but hopefully you can get some amazing shots of the Mercury transit this month! Awesome tutorial by the way!
If the weather allows, I'll get something! Thanks!
Thank you so much for this tutorial!!!
Thank you!
Thank you. Finally a useful tutorial on solar imaging!
Thanks!
@@malsYT I followed your tutorial exactly over the weekend with my 80mm Lunt and processed it according to your approach and got an incredible image! Thank you. I can attest that your tutorial works and works well!
Great, glad to hear, and thanks!
brilliant, thank you very much 👏👏👏👏
Thanks for this video Marty. Very thorough and it answered a lot of my questions! I did a practice video the other day with my PST and my old QHY-5L-II-M autoguider now I can process them. I figure I can get some more practice while I exchange the ASI174 for the ASI178. Since the the is a bit cheaper I will extra funds for a Quark that I can mount on my Orion ED80 that is just collecting dust. Thanks for mentioning the Chromosphere model as that was another question that you answered. - Cheers
Thanks! Glad it was helpful! I look forward to what you can do with your new setup!
@@malsYT Yeah, me too.
excellent tutorial many thanks!
Thank you!
Awesome video, this helped a lot.
charotarguy thanks!
Excellent Great video Thank you very much !!!
Thanks!
Wow that was great I learned alot from your tutorial
Thanks!
Nice job! Thanks!
Thanks!
Great tutorial! Very helpful! Question - When manually applying alignment points to the edge of the solar disk how are you able to "paint" them by simply dragging the mouse? Are you holding down a function key (i.e. Ctrl, Shift or Alt) when dragging the mouse? I am unable to reproduce that process. Thank you and advance!
Thanks! Hi, I am actually just clicking really fast! If you want to make it super simple, you really don't even have to do that. Just set the minimum brightness (set it to a low value, and just test it and see if it places points in the black space where your prominences are) so that it will capture the "black space" where the prominences are just use the auto-place button and it will do a pretty good job on its own.
Learning a s___ load. Thank You sooo much!!
Yessir, thanks!
Great video.
Timecop1983 is a favorite
Agreed!
That's a great video - I'm wondering how you controlled the 'black' in the background in Sharpcap. When I image (178m sensor) and drive the exposure / gain to see proms, the background also saturates so I don't see the clear image you get. Also, your seeing must be pretty good - my live shots have the sun jumping all over the place!
A very helpful tutorial that I will be using the steps to follow.
I just, for the life of me, can't understand why some people have to have music playing in the background while you're talking, especially the kind that you were playing. It is SOOO distracting !!!
Thanks
Incredible video. A GAME CHANGER for me. Quick question -- it appears ZWO has removed the ability to adjust gamma (I use the ASI120MM-M). Do you have any suggestions on how to deal with blowing out disc now? Just use gain?
Impressive
Great video!
Does the ASI174 suffer from the Newton rings? Is this why you use the tilt adapter?
Thanks, all cameras can potentially show newton rings, they are very apparent as you end up at very long focal-ratios. I actually don't have nearly as bad newton rings with this ASI174MM, but some others do with the same model. The slightest tilt can show them and they're not all exactly the same when produced. So there will be copy variation. I use the tilt adapter to play around with rings if I see them (but my flat calibration usually takes care of any that are there), and to see if there's any additional benefit of altering tilt if I notice a sweet spot or anything. So far, the tilt adapter isn't helping me in any way that I've noticed, but I'm still testing things out. I mainly got it to adjust full disc imaging with a 0.5x focal reducer with a short scope, but I still get unevenness here and there, which is common with entry level etalons like the Quark and others in this tier.
I accidentally found an interesting adjustment to blending the prom. *This is with the histogram inverted in ImPPG per another tutorial* My prom image had a lot of weird artifacts and I was trying to resize my prom image and I couldn't get it to line up and look good. So I was randomly trying different blending modes. I found "lighten" popped the disk and proms to a nice bright place. Then I took the surface image and copied it, put it over the prom layer and used a layer mask to paint the proms back in. So far so good.
Here's my updated tutorial to avoid having to do any of that, no double exposures, etc, just image to get everything in one shot and process up the proms:
ruclips.net/video/RJvJEoVS0oU/видео.html
Wow, thanks!
Thanks!
Hi and thanks for a wonderfully thorough video. I feel that I have what I need to get started in this. I am using a Coronado
Hello, I use a Coronado PST with a ZWO ASI174MM (larger pixels, monochrome) with a low profile nose adapter. It achieves focus without any problems. The ASI174MM is a very common and highly recommended camera for solar imaging in general because of its very large pixels. The low profile nose simply screws on, instead of the default nose, so that it has enough inward travel to achieve focus on the PST (the adapter was made by ZWO for the PST to be used with the ASI174MM). I image with it and it works great.
I bought my ASI174MM used for cheap. I suggest you shop around various places like CloudyNights & Astromart, etc and save a lot of money.
astronomy-imaging-camera.com/products/accessories/asi-1-25-low-profile-cover/
astronomy-imaging-camera.com/products/usb-3-0/asi174mm/
Thanks for the tips! I will check it out. Best regards.
Enjoyed your video! The flat frame process works great with the ASI 174 but with the ASI1600 it still leaves about 50% of the newton rings. Is is possible that I am to out of focus? Would one be able to shoot a flat with a t-shirt like I do with a CCD camera? Thank you.
Hi. Interesting that you get newton rings with the ASI1600. The newton rings are due to tilt in the system, not focus. Unfortunately you cannot use a t-shirt to a flats, because you will not receive any light at all through the optical train due to imaging in a single wavelength, 656.28nm, the light for your flat has to also be 656.28nm, so the sun itself basically. If you're having bad newton rings that cannot be solved with a flat, you can get a tilt adapter. HighPointScientific has an ASI tilt adapter for $38 that will handle rings.
Thank you
Thanks!
Excellent video, thank so much!
Just question about Your set up, what for is trhe 80mm extension tube? Is it for the scaling down the image?
Mine set up is pretty much same, camera is ASI120MM. Tube is Omegon apo 80mm 500mm. The Image is no smaller than ca 40% of Sun. I'd like to image whole disk.Extension tube helps?
Hello, the extension tubes are to help achieve focus. The internal 4.2x telecentric barlow inside the Quark changes where focus will be, just like how an ordinary barlow will draw focus away from the focuser. The traditional diagonal pulls focus away as well. By removing the diagonal, I needed to use extensions to be able to achieve focus with the 4.2x telecentric barlow mentioned in the Quark. The extensions merely serve to replace the diagonal and remove having more glass/mirrors in the imaging train, nothing more.
Imaging the whole disc, if you're using a Quark, means you'll need a very short focal length. I find a 135mm lens or 50mm finder scope typically can do the job. A M42 mount Takumar or Vivitar 135mm F3.5 lens can be used to do full disc imaging for example.
Thanks for clarifying.
awesome
Awesome tutorial, are you on SGL? I’ll definitely save this video since I’m diving into solar imaging.
Thanks, sorry I'm unfamiliar with "SGL," is that the StarGazer'sLounge? If so, I'm not. I'm on CloudyNights & SolarChat! & Astrobin.
Dunque non ci sono fiamme 🔥 bisogna aggiungerle 🧐
What do you do for flat frames when imaging the full disk (ie with a reducer)?
Recording a flat frame of a full disc doesn't work like this unfortunately because there won't be a reference due to it being a bright disc in a black void. Common ways to do flat frames for a full disc is the "drift method." Basically, you left the disc drift a little in the field of view by altering the slew rate on the mount so that the sun drifts a little. While recording your video session, the drifting disc will have your dust and imperfections over different pixels, and then when stacked, it will be considered noise and stack out. Hope that helps! Full disc flat calibration is hard, there's no perfect way to do it without heavy processing.
Thanks very much. Also, thank you for this video. It was extremely useful. I'll reference it regularly as I get started.
Amazing video Marty! Thx for sharing (not sure you are still checking that space though ;-) )
Thanks; I still check!
@@malsYT great! More videos to come? ;-)
I have more videos that are newer that produce disc and limb images from a single exposure and the results are the natural look, not the inverted look:
ruclips.net/video/M7rSOXWQDZM/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/RJvJEoVS0oU/видео.html
@@malsYT how could I have missed those… thanks so much Marty!!! Looking forward to trying this!
thanks so much for the video. so you do not need a filter on the front of the scope? just a little scary to point my 130mm APO at the sun with no protection. is that ok?
Thanks! With a Daystar Quark, you do not need a front energy rejection filter (ERF) on the front of the scope, for a refractor only, if the aperture is 150mm or less. Your 130mm APO will be fine. Your glass transmits all the light, it's not reflected nor absorbed, so it's just passing through. Instead, you simply put a 2" UV/IR block filter, this reflects the UV and IR radiation/heat out of the tube again so that less of the spectrum makes it to the Quark. The Quark itself reflects back out most of the light from there. And the total system can handle up to 150mm aperture with a refractor.
Very instructive video, but music background is annoying.
Thanks for the video, Just started solar work a month ago and I keep coming back to this video for reference as I have all the tools you use on my PC. You mentioned a filter around 7:30, could you expand on the filter you're talking about briefly, please. I'm using an ASI120MM camera right now as I am working on getting some basics down first, such as focusing my SolarMax II 60MM with it's "clunky" focuser, but I'm thinking of stepping up to either a 174 or a 178.
The filter series I'm referring to at that point is that my sensor was not orthogonal to the imaging train and all filters, so it had some strange tilt and artifact lines. Turns out that's actually a defect in my particular IMX174 sensor (not all have this but some do). I had to work around it.
That said, this video is old and I actually do not acquire data or process this way at all anymore. I made two new tutorials with what I'm doing now and they're much simpler and easier to follow, and shorter. The result is also a natural look and not inverted.
ruclips.net/video/M7rSOXWQDZM/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/RJvJEoVS0oU/видео.html
@@malsYT Thanks for pointing out those updates to me, beats me how I hadn't seen them. Just spent three hours goofing with the Sun here in Southern Indiana before I got clobbered by clouds. :) Thanks again.
This tutorial was awesome! Using it I was able to process my first solar image.
Question: Using the difference blending mode results in the image being inverted. Is there an easy way to blend the disk and prominence data so that the result disk is not inverted?
Hi, yes, a fairly simple way is to align the disc and the prominence layer using difference blending mode. Then take it back to normal blending mode. Then, go to the disk layer, select the black space around the disc, now take the selection to the prominence layer (only the selection) and mask it, and the prominences will show through over the disk.
I have the same question. Think you could do a quick video on how to perform the above action? I've got an image with a Sunspot an the inverted image in the technique in the video makes the sunspot look odd.
Sure, I'll see if I can do it this week. Sunspots do look very different inverted, but the surface looks quite different inverted too. It's all just however you want to present the data.
That would be awesome. Thanks! I've been trying to figure it out all afternoon :-)
Second a request for this. I have been having trouble combining them properly.
Hi Marty, I stumbled on this video while looking for videos on solar capture and processing, and I must say that this video is one of the best I have seen. I will put it my astro video folder for future reference.
I have the coronado PST40 and just starting to get some data. I have a question, with the PST will putting the lenes cap on be okay for taking darks? because I was wondering if there as a different way of taking darks with a dedicated solar scope.
Cheers Robert Aust'
Hi, thanks! Darks are not necessary. Flats generally are though. Capping your PST won't help with it. To do a flat with a PST I would suggest an opaque cereal bag. I have updated videos that are newer than this video that cover this topic more in depth and show how it works, take a look!
@@malsYT Okay, thanks for the reply, I will check the others out. Now it has turned cloudy just when I want to get some images, good chance to study up on the different acquisition and processing programs.
Cheers Robert
Great video where is your quark dial set at.
Thanks, for my location and my sample of a Quark, it required a lot of blue shifting to come on band, so my dial was 2 clicks away from maximum counter clockwise. There's no universal value for everyone. Each sample is different. You have to go through all 11 setting options to see which provides the best on-band contrast as you red and blue shift to find where the central wavelength 656nm is.
Great tutorial - may I ask where you got your 80mm spacer and that does not look like a stock focuser? none of my spacers will fit into my ST80, it's driving me nuts! What focuser do you have on there?
Hello, Thanks! It's a basic Astromania 2" extension on Amazon and AgenaAstro. You can get 35mm, 50mm and 80mm.
@@malsYT great - I got one from Agena - fit perfectly, I don't have a 174MM, I have a 1600MC-Cooled and a QHY5L-II Mono and a ZWO 120Mono - I have the 1600MM-Cooled mono but that has my filter wheel hooked up and I would prefer not to mess with that. I have been having trouble getting any detail out of the sun - I used your settings in Sharpcap but I seem to get the disk but no detail at all or complete darkness - of course I might not have been in focus, it's really hard to tell when you are starting since it's just a round ball I focus until it gets as small as I can get it like you would a star at night - any tips on finding focus or other sharpcap setting you could suggest - all tips greatly appreciated - with this lockdown I am going nuts, it would be great to somewhat master solar imaging. By the way your tutorial on it is by far the best I have found on all the internet by far - thanks for posting it.
Hello, you certainly don't need the same camera. As long as you have larger pixels (3.8um~4.2um or larger) then you're fine with a longer focal ratio for sampling such as with a Quark and a focal-reducer, or just simply without the focal reducer if operating near F20 or so. It doesn't need to be perfect at these image scales. You could use your 120MM or the QHY5L-II no problem, those pixels I think are in the 3xx range, which is fine for around F20 (a little over-sampled but that's ok really).
I would start by putting your exposure time to 10ms. Then adjust gain until you fill the histogram to 70% approximately. For focus, go to the limb of the disc and focus until it's a sharp (or as close to sharp as you can). If it's not sharp, and boiling from heat turbulence, you may simply not be in focus and need different combination of extensions, etc. Focus will pull out a little without a diagonal, so you need enough extensions to replace the diagonal if you're not using it. Even in bad seeing though, you should be able to get the limb roughly sharp. If it's not defined at all, it's just way out of focus.
Here's some updated tutorials:
ruclips.net/video/M7rSOXWQDZM/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/RJvJEoVS0oU/видео.html
@@malsYT Thanks for all the help - I tried again today, first sunny day in awhile - I cannot get it at all, I can focus all day in and out, in and out, play with the exposure and gain but if I don't have exposure and gain cranked way past what you have I see nothing at all and I can focus in and out all day and the sun just vanishes even though I have to be pointed at it and if I put my settings in sharp cap anywhere near yours all I get is black too - I have no idea what the problem could be but there will be a setup very similar to yours minus the camera going up for sale on cloudy nights probably tonight as I have run out of things to try, will stick with night time - this solar stuff escapes me and before I throw a $1k Quark at a tree probably for the best. : (
Hello, based on what you've described, I'm willing to bet that you didn't have the sun actually in the FOV and that it was just outside your FOV, which is why it remained black. This is commonly actually because its more challenging than one might think to center the sun in a telescope when the effective focal length is so long and the FOV based on a smaller camera sensor, it's less than 1 degree, easily (the full disc occupies about 1 degree), so it's actually hard. It really helps to have a sun finder of some kind to make sure you're actually pointing at the sun. Then it will be super obvious because its very, very bright and you won't have to worry about cranking exposure through the roof just to see signal. I'm willing to bet this is the only real issue, so if you make or buy a small sunfinder, you'll be set. You can put solar film on a typical straight through or RACI finder scope to be visually safe. Or you can use basic sun finders, like Heliopod and ScopeStuff's sunfinder. They're inexpensive and excellent and can be used on any scope really. Here's links:
www.dynapod.com/dyna-hp1.html
www.scopestuff.com/ss_solf.htm
After you're confirming you're on the star with your FOV, then you can see if you can achieve focus. This is where the extensions will be needed (straight through) or your diagonal, if using one. The limb will focus to a sharp line. You can fine focus from there on whatever feature you're looking at. And exposure should be easy to manipulate once you're pointing at the star with an aligned finder of some sort as mentioned above.
You're almost there! Don't give up, you'll look back and chuckle! :)
Can anyone advise how you add a manual placement points like this, i tried click and drag, shift click drag, ctrl, alt, all sorts but have to go one by one.
Hi, I just click really fast while moving the mouse. It's not necessary though, you can just use the auto-placement button on the left to handle this. It works the same. I highly recommend you look at my two latest videos that are more recent than this particular one to see how I'm using the software in a more simple way.
Very informative. A lot of work and thought went into this RUclips. Thank you. I am using a Lodestar X2 and when I open the Camera Controls I do not see a Gain option. I am using SharpCap Pro v 3.1. Also, do you have any examples of what the histogram of the disk looks like when you are tuned to 656nm and when you are not?
Cheers,
Hello, in SharpCap, try expanding all menu drop downs on the far right of the application and do not use anything automatic to ensure all manual controls are available. As for the histogram, I do not have a specific histogram related to being on band versus off band, because all it will show is total exposure filling on the histogram to the right. I fill the histogram to the far right until it's about 80~90% generally. The rest of the histogram is irrelevant to me because it's monochrome and the histogram is only showing overall exposure from black to white (right). Being on band to 6562.8A or 3934A for example makes no difference on my hisotgrams, as again, it only shows exposure range and filling it to the right without going past the right side fills the histogram so you have a wider dynamic range to work with. If you push the histogram past the right side, you lose data (clipping white). Bandpass features will tell you if you are on band or not (such as being in the red wing or blue wing of the 6562.8A wavelength). The histogram will not tell you that.
Thank you for the quick response. I have no additional dropdown menus under Camera Control. I am running the ASCOM drivers and on the Camera Control panel is a button that says Options. This opens a separate ASCOM window with some camera settings, mostly defaults but no gain. Would the ASCOM driver being altering the Camera Controls I would see if running native drivers?
The reason I asked about the histogram and being on band is that I have looked in the eyepiece and cannot see with my old eyes any clearly discernible image changes when tuning the etalon. I see some faint texture changes but nothing dramatic. I was hoping to use the histogram to assist me in getting on band. A user on CloudyNight forum suggested I zoom in on the limb, get the focus crisp, and then trying to watch for changes in the immediately adjacent disk as I tuned. He thought I was out of focus and missing the changes when I went past the band. Any suggestions?
I don't think ASCOM has anything to do with camera control here, but I'm not 100% on that. I don't use SharpCap 3+ so I'm not familiar with changes. I still use the previous version before it went to a subscription based plan for the polar alignment tool.
For visual tuning, I would ensure you are focused first and foremost, because all features will be blurred to the point of not being able to notice they're there otherwise. Start on the limb of the disc, focus until it's a sharp lined limb. Then tune from there. If you see a prominence, it will help to know you are focused. Tuning for the surface will be slightly different than for the prominence (proms are easier to see as they are black-backed by the void of space). Surface features are tough visually without something to focus on, such as a sunspot, and we lack those right now. Visual surface without a double stack right now is tough due to no features other than spicules and some minor active regions, which are hard to spot. You could look at the two large filaments on the disc right now to try to tune with.
I'm that user that recommended that for you on the forum. :)
So, after a lot of investigation into why and when Gain and Gamma are available, I have discovered the following: my Truis SX964 is supported via ASCOM in SharpCap Pro 3.1. The camera shows up only in the ASCOM listing Cameras tab. You do get an Options tab in the Camera Control which popup an ASCOM window with some default settings but no gain or gamma.
I received my ZWO 174MM cooled CCD today. It shows up as a native camera and not under the ASCOM (I installed both the ZWO and the ASCOM drivers). Now Gain shows in the Camera Control but no Gamma. If you now run the ASICAP software off the ZWO CD or website that comes with the CCD, it runs a version of SharpCap v1.4 that appears to be a capture only component of SharpCap Pro, but has both the gain and gamma available.
This is FYI. Just thought it interesting that not only the camera but the version dictate the available camera control settings that are displayed. Regardless, the smoke here in Davis, CA, from the numerous fires has blanketed the sky and turned the Sun red. Have to wait for fairer weather or the wind to change direction.
Very strange indeed! Sorry to hear that. I'm using SharpCap 2.9 and haven't updated or upgraded since this version and probably won't until I'm forced to as everything just works (including the polar alignment wizard).
Hi, lovely video - very clear indeed.
Having said that, I do have one question.
When I add the Flat (previously created) I get 95% of the [quarter] Sun disk blackened and only the edge remains of the quarter image of The Sun bright!
Any idea? I do not understand.
Thank you in advance
Hello, you have to make the flat frame with the FOV completely filled, such as pointing at the center of the disc. Exposure should not clip the histogram on the right. Ideally, lower exposure so that it's peaking in the 60~80% fill area, while defocused, pointing at the center of the solar disc. You have to create the flat every time you reposition the imaging train at all, and each session. It's unique each time. Once you create the flat frame, you can slew to the edge of the disc to look at the limb for example and capture your data and that flat frame will apply to it.
Alternatively, switch to FireCapture and you can create real time flat frames so that you can see the effect while acquiring data. Much more useful and feature rich. I highly recommend FireCapture these days.
Hi @@malsYT
Thank you for taking the time - appreciated.
I guess I almost got it, as after trying I understood 'something' like you said and guess what I did to save the flat?
I simply used the Clone Stamp and filled the area and all but one spot disappeared!
It can be useful for others I hope.
Next time I hope there are a couple of 'clear' hours to hone my skills.
I only did have a short time to capture [clouds coming over] and I was testing a recently acquired 'third hand' PST and managed to focus and do the takes - then clouds!
Just learning, then I will play with White Baader film and when I can I will get a Quark too.
First I need the experience while I put money away.
Clear skies [night and day!]
PS Love The Sun as per anything else and it certainly is a good hobby especially when you get older - 'less heavy and warmer too' !
@@NisbaSonOf If you create a flat video and stack a resulting flat frame, it should eliminate any spots, blemishes, etc, and handle most gradients too. If you do not have the FOV filled with the disc and defocused when you make the flat, it will have problems when you try to use it on a shot with some disc not filling the FOV, such as when looking at the limb of the disc. Also, you cannot change orientation of the camera, or anything, from the orientation when you made the flat video. It must be exactly the same. It tolerates minor focusing differences (in focus and defocused) but it will not tolerate an orientation change (rotating, or adding/subtracting things from the imaging train).
Hi Marty, Quark have two models of filter available, the "prominence" and "chromosphere". You've captured prominences well with the chromosphere filter. What would be the advantage of buying their prominence filter (for the same price again)?
Hi Neil, the `prom' version is the lesser quality etalon in general, so it has a wider bandpass which is advertised for prominences because it will easily show bright prominences (a 1A filter will easily do this), but it will have less contrast on the surface due to parasitic photosphere continuum leakage coming through. The `chromosphere' version is a better etalon with a more narrow bandpass (less than 1A), if in an appropriate telecentric beam that has an appropriate light cone around F30~F40 (which would put it as narrow as 0.6A~0.53A tops). It is more selective and on band so higher contrast. However it will show prominences just as fine too. Also, you can widen the bandpass of the filter by using shorter focal-ratios (F15~F20) which push it closer to 1A and it will do what a normal `prom' Quark does. Truly no reason I can honestly state to get a `prom' version of the Quark. And now they've released a Gemini model to help get some `prom' etalons off the shelf for this very reason (my speculation of course). Not knocking their stuff, but just being frank about what it is. The best etalons Daystar makes are binned to the Quantum series, the lesser ones become Quarks, Scouts, etc, and the lesser quality of all of those become `prominence' models. That said, bandpass isn't nearly as important as transmission profile and finesse and uniformity. Each Quark is different, copy variation, they do not at all perform alike and some are better or worse than others, like many things in most industries, so copy variation exists. There is also the `combo' version which has a larger clear aperture and blocking filter, but lacks a built in telecentric amplifier, so you have to supply one, making it cost more, but it's more flexible to control focal-ratio to get whatever results you want on any system (so long as thermal load is appropriately handled). End of the day though, for cost, the standard `chromosphere' model is what I would suggest for refractor users. :)
@UCqMbuXXUS6Qwrws_ZwPmWNg Yessir! Unless you're interested in much larger apertures, I too would suggest staying with the 60mm Solarmax. Great for full discs due to being a front mounted full aperture etalon (less darkening of the limb compared to rear mounted etalons). Right now is the profound near-peak of the solar minimum so there's not much going on anyways. I use a lot of extensions because I don't use a diagonal. Diagonals are mirrors and functionally also add to your imaging train. I removed it for imaging because it's just more surfaces that are not necessary and also because my Quark doesn't need to be exposed to sunlight directly while imaging, it can overheat and go off band. Quarks are great for an inexpensive entry point to larger aperture options. If your interest is in the 100mm~150mm aperture range, it's a good option for an entry price. But ultimately unless your seeing can support such apertures, which most cannot during the day, I would put a 'safe suggestion" on 100mm aperture as the top limit for visual observation under poor seeing conditions (99% of the world during the day). A 60mm SMII etalon on a ST80 scope is a nice instrument. All solar scopes are a bit cumbersome due to the sheer weight of all the filters and glass for the most part. There's always a compromise!
@@malsYT Thanks again Marty, and your video has been an immense help to understand how to process this stuff.
@@NeilW210 Thank you! Clear skies!
Sir, would you recommend an energy rejection filter in front of the objective to reduce heating/tube currents inside the OTA?
Hi George, a front mounted full aperture dielectrically coated energy rejection filter (D-ERF) would be the ideal. However, it's not necessary in refractor designs with clear aperture imaging trains. A smaller sub-aperture D-ERF can be placed anywhere in the light cone as long as it doesn't mask the light cone, so it's common to do this down at the focuser with a 2" (50mm) D-ERF which in an unfocused light cone reflects out the unwanted wavelengths and the thermal energy they carry with them. You can get away with this upwards of 150mm clear aperture with a refractor to save a lot of cash. It does not create inner tube currents, this has no basis with metrics, the reality is most people do not have seeing conditions that support 150mm at critical sampling anyways and so they assume it doesn't work, but I've shown day after day that it does work with my 150mm and my sub-arc-second seeing supports it, so I can image high res with it, nearly every morning, without problems just with a small 50mm inner sub-aperture D-ERF.
@@malsYT You just saved me $500-$800. : )
All good, while a full aperture D-ERF is ideal, a sub-aperture D-ERF can do the job. I highly recommend the Baader Red CCD-IR Block 2" imaging filter for this task (and I use one with my 150mm).
When you were acquiring and focusing the image it didn’t drift across the screen, is it safe to assume that you are auto tracking the Sun. I’m a novice and with my PST and a tripod I constantly have to adjust my tripod head to keep the Sun on the laptop screen. Great video.
Hi Tim, yes it was tracking via the mount along with the sun at a solar slew rate. The Mount is an Orion Sirius or Skywatcher HEQ5 (same thing). You can still do this with a PST on a still tripod, I have done it that way too, it will slowly drift in the FOV, but that's ok, the key is to simply line it up, focus, figure your exposure values, then position it in the FOV so that it will drift through the center or whever your sweet spot is with your PST, and have it ready to capture 100 frames when it's centered up (which should take really only take 1 second or slightly more with most cameras at 10ms exposure time). It's ok if it drifts a little. Autostarkkert! software will align them if they're fairly close and can handle up to 3 degrees of rotation if I recall correctly.
@@malsYT Thank you for your reply. So many questions, so little time. I’m using an old Majestic geared head tripod. It’s amazing how fast the Sun travels across the laptop screen. I did have a small bit of success in capturing a Flare (I think). I’m trying to understand Autostarkket, another mystery. I can't unzip it. I unzipped it and I get two programs on the screen.
Autoostakkert 2.6.8 and ZWO Fire Capture, where is that coming from.
My first question is --- can you drift align the Sun with a Hinode Solar Guider? It’s impossible to see the North Star from where I have my PST. More questions if that’s ok. Tim
@@justtim9767 Heya, you can drift align any EQ (Equatorial) mount to get a good alignment when you cannot see the poles, however, that can only really be done at night with stars. Not during the day as there's nothing to trail to show you which direction things are moving relative to your mount. The Hinode Solar Guider sends pulse commands to correct slew guiding to track the sun, but the mount itself has to already have RA/DEC slew and solar rate, so you need a base tracking mount to even use the Hinode. That said, I don't recommend a Hinode for a PST or any other really small instrument, it's not needed. Most basic Alt-Az tracking mounts (like SLT, etc) can track the sun without alignment. I'd worry about just having a working tracking mount before worrying about a Hinode guider.
Thanks for sharing this great tutorial. Have you a web site to see your pictures?
I utilize two forums, CloudyNights and Astrobin. My current gallery over at Astrobin: www.astrobin.com/users/MalVeauX/
Hi, I have followed your tutorial and all your tips several times but have a different result. After image processing (until the step "Copy/Paste Merged" level and before colorizing) my image of sun surface is a negative image. Sunspots are withe rather than black. In your tutorial the image does not include any sunspot or other black elements so the final colorized result is very fine. But mine is the opposite. Where am I wrong? Thanks very much for your support.
You have not done anything wrong. If you recall the step before you merged, you used a "difference" layer. That layer blending mode is an inversion. So in that step, it changes the entire image to be inverted. This is what changes black sunspots to white sunspots. It's just another way to do it. You did everything right. This tutorial simply shows how to create a high contrast inverted surface image that best shows the spicules on the surface. You can process it to not be inverted, that's another method, and another look. Again, you didn't do anything wrong, maybe you didn't notice this was an inverted image (I think I commented on it, but maybe I didn't explain it very well). My goal is to do another tutorial that is not inverted. I simply did this one this way because it's how I generally do most of my solar images, I simply prefer the inverted look. Just a personal preference!
Thanks for your reply and patience. Since I saw your beautiful images with "regular" black sunspot, I thought I did not perform a correct processing. I usually shot all the sun disc (Coronardo Solarmax II 90 and ASI 1600 M cooled) and maybe withe sunspots would seem to be less natural. I will look at your next tutorial. Best regards. Massimo (www.mbernardi.it)
Excellent series-just what I need, however, I wish Photoshop had a slider to eliminate background ‘noise’ in the form of that noise you call music. Must be a generation thing, but music shadowing narration is a bad mix.
Thanks, noted!
@@malsYT I hope you take it as a positive comment, I fully appeciate you and othes the time and effort you put in to your presentatios, but I feel that it is only by making comments that you can possibly improve your presentations in a positive way. I am a Pom living inOz, and I must confess I find the USA way of speaking hard to understand at times, just as much as you would us Poms. I have made the same comments on others similar presentations too in the hopes of better presentations. I used to teach medica imaging to medical staff and my diction had to be spot on to a wide audience. Greetings from Tasmania Australia.
@@ShevillMathers yessir, no worries!
Brilliant tutorial and Im getting there but how do I make the sunspots black rather than white? Cheers!
Hi, the simple way would be to invert the image again at the very end of the process.
Otherwise, as this is an old tutorial, here's my latest tutorials which focus on natural presentation and processing from a single exposure:
ruclips.net/video/M7rSOXWQDZM/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/RJvJEoVS0oU/видео.html
@@malsYT Thanks. Will look at these now. Much appreciated.
TY....then you also need a solar filter for the guide scope...
Hello, if you use a guidescope, then yes, you need to filter it too. But you don't need a guidescope at all. Solar imaging is just like planetary imaging and lunar imaging, no guide scope is needed. Just an aligned tracking mount will handle it.
Hi beautiful video, I would like to reopen this post, to ask you how to decide the resolution of the camera asi 174mm. Many resolutions are possible with frames per second variables. what is the method of choice? Thanks.
Hello, what you're referring to is called "sampling." Sampling is a relationship of pixel size, angular resolution of light (the wavelength) and focal-ratio of the optical system. Larger pixels need slower focal-ratios and longer wavelengths have lower angular resolution so sample at faster focal-ratios. Critical sampling is the point where no more resolution is recorded due to limits of aperture or seeing conditions. The 5.86um pixels of the IMX174 sensor critically sample 656nm (HA) at F21~F22, so going over this does not increase resolution, and going under that will lose resolution to under-sampling. If you want to know what critical sampling is for 656nm HA, it's your pixel size (in um) times 3.75. The result is the focal-ratio you should be imaging at for your pixel size for 656nm HA wavelength. So for example, if you had 3.45um pixels you simply multiply 3.4um x 3.75 and the result is 13, so you would want to sample at F13 approximately for that pixel size for 656nm HA. Note, that 3.75x modifier is for HA only.
As for the region of interest and what combination to use, I would argue to always use the most useful FOV of your sensor at the fastest FPS possible to lucky image. So basically try and max out your camera's potential.
@@malsYT thanks
Why when i create my master flat does it turn my entire disk very dark? The video for the flat is adequately illuminated but when I create the flat it is very dark..
Your flat exposure and disc exposure histograms should be very close, if your disc is much darker it's removing more. I suggest a histogram fill of 65~72% range for discs for the flat and the disc.
wowser!
Hi Martin, while following your excellent video with my own setup, I have found that Sharpcap V 3.1 and later no longer has a gamma control. According to Robin at Sharpcap, "In a recent update to their SDK, ZWO removed the ability to control gamma on their cameras. SharpCap 3.1 (and later versions) use this new version of the ZWO SDK, so they will not show a gamma slider for any ZWO camera - this is not a bug. " How would you deal with this? There is a suggestion that the later versions of SC have the ability to stretch an image via a histogram. Would that serve the same purpose as bringing up the gamma for imaging the prominances?
Thanks,
Neil.
Hello Neil, that's unfortunate! I use an older very of SharpCap to retain features (such as gamma and more specifically the polar align wizard). I guess one option is to switch to FireCapture instead. Just reading quickly, it looks like ZWO has removed gamma from their instruction set, and that it's not the SharpCap software, but rather, the camera side of things. Otherwise, we can explore what's going on with gamma because it's just a different approach to work flow (it is an older way of doing things). Doing it in the acquisition stage simply reduces more time in post processing (at least for me). But you can do it the other way around (as in, do the same thing in post, after data acquisition). So if gamma is not present as an option and is always neutral during acquisition, simply fill your histogram to the right as much as possible without clipping data, capture your data, and then in post if you want to manipulate gamma it's an option in various software pixel editors like Photoshop, etc., or you can simply use curves or histogram stretches to do the same thing. In the newer version of SharpCap there is a minihistogram to stretch to do a similar thing with bringing up shadows, midtones, while guarding highlights, but you can also do that in post (though it helps to gauge what's there as some prominences are very faint).
Thanks for the prompt reply Martin. The polar align function is still present in 3.1+, and apparently quite an improvement over older versions, although there is now a small subscription fee required from V3.0 onwards. I'll try the live histogram stretch in SC to see how that works, and yes, FireCapture is always an option. Now if only the clouds would clear!
Could you do a Lunar tutorial some day? thanks
Hello Mike, yes, I can do that sometime, I'll add it to the list. Thanks!
@@malsYT Thanks for the reply. I've seen your lunar pictures on Cloudy Nights they are supper!!
Is the scope guiding or do you not have to ever worry about that?
Hi, in this case, the scope is tracking with the sun via a tracking mount (equatorial mount). It can be done with a tracking alt-az mount too (but there's field rotation involved, but it can be compensated for with processing to de-rotate it a bit). You can also do this with no tracking at all, from a static tripod mount, but not at a fine image scale, more like full disc image scales with room to spare so that the disc can drift across the FOV for a while and capture video of it and then later the frames can be aligned and processed just as described here and in my other more recent tutorials.
There's a fundemental error in your Photoshop processing. Because you set the prominance layer to difference blendmode the surface details are reversed. To block out the over exposed disk on the prominance layer it would be better to use a layer mask.
Hello, it's not an error, it's meant to inverse the surface for the look it provides. You are correct in that a layer mask is needed to blend the two exposures for the native look as it would appear otherwise.
Great video. I have the solarmax iii. 70mm. I just got my 174 camera. My 100 percent is the whole sun. Your 100 is less then a quarter. You must have a more powerful scope?
Hi, you're referring to image scale, a function of focal length and pixel size, my effective focal length here is long, over 1600mm.
1600mm is crazy! Which scope do you have?
Per the description, a Quark is involved, with a 4.2x telecentric amplifier so the effective focal length is quadrupled. My other systems are larger, up to 2,000mm natural focal length on my high res systems. For this video I used smaller gear that is common for people getting into this.
Spectacular images!! I have a 72ed skywatcher, would it be okay with the DayStar quark chromosphere? Would I need a glass cap filter like thousand oaks or erf? In one store I was told that only with the daystar and a uv filter of 1'25. If you can help me, would you thank him
Hi, your 72mm retractor will work fine, you dont need any addition ERF at all, per day star under 80mm doesnt even need an UV/IR block filter, though I will suggest always use one to limit heat to preserve the more expensive filters life span.
@@malsYT the 72ed I have it ordered although I can exchange it for one like yours or a ts80 triplet that would be ideal, would there be a lot of difference for photography with the sun? Is it better to use extenders for back focus or a 2" diagonal?
@@nebulasky522 Hi, theres zero benefit to ED glass for narrowband like this, so a triplet will actually be worse in fact than a long achromatic doublet for performance of longitudinal focus and spherochromatism, but dont worry about it, the 72 ED is perfectly fine, the scope I used in this tutorial is sub optimal and I used it to show how any everyday cheap scope (ST80) can be used to image narrowband like this. The ideal scope is longer focal ratio, such as f7 or longer for mica spaces etalons like day star. You dont have to use straight through extensions, I simply prefer it as the diagonal mirror is just reversing the image and is another surface for dust, but its total fine to use a diagonal.
@@malsYT I'll look at some tube similar to the 72ed double of f7 if you notice the difference. I'd really love to one day get something like what you did. Thank you very much for your advice and help
@@nebulasky522 All good, I kept the equipment simple and cheap so anyone can reproduce this as long as their atmospheric seeing allows. A great scope for this is an 80mm to 102mm f7 to f10, such as a celestron omni xlt 102 f10 achromatic doublet. The longer that focal ratio the better the performance on a mica space etalon like the Quark, then use a 0.5x focal reducer on the camera to get the effective focal ratio down again for sampling purposes with larger pixels, like the imx174 sensor.
I have seen that you have taken the three capture videos with an Orion Sirius mount. How do you make the sun stay centered so that the tracking does not go away since the Sirius does not have Solar System Alightment?
Hi Juan, the only benefit that you get from star or solar system alignments are for GoTo accuracy. When it comes to precise tracking, the only thing that matters is level/balance, precise polar alignment, and periodic error of the mount's gears in Right Ascesion (RA). I don't have to do a solar system alignment, because again, that only applies to GoTo commands. What keeps the sun centered so well is the result of very precise polar alignment (my mount is permanently outdoors and permanently aligned) and from there the next step is slew rate. The normal sidereal rate for slewing is different from solar and lunar slewing rates. So the only thing I have to do is change my slew rate to solar and it will then slew at the appropriate speed. So the combination of precise polar alignment and solar slew rate is what keeps everything centered in my FOV so well for long periods of time. As for pointing my scope at the sun, I slew to it manually (I do not use GoTo during the day) because it's pretty easy to put in my FOV since it's obvious in the sky and I use a sol-finder on my lens hood that is aligned with my scope. Takes me only a few seconds to line it up. Hope that helps!
Oh rye on hooked on phonics worked for me 😂
What camera did you use?
ASI174MM (IMX174 sensor)
@@malsYT wow, thank you!
@@trojan2984 No problem, thanks! :)
Cool .. but Orion is pronounced Oh Rye Inn .. as in the constellation 😉
Thanks very much for a great video. I’ve learned so much! Question….how do you handle sunspots? I’m finding that they turn white when I blend the prominence layer. Any tips on this would be hugely appreciated. Thanks!
Hi, thanks, check out my other tutorial that does not use inverted display for a more natural presentation: ruclips.net/video/RJvJEoVS0oU/видео.html
@@malsYT Super, thanks so much for the newer video. I’ll give this a go. I truly appreciate it!
Bro did you really just say or-eon? (Orion)
Do you work with NASA?
Or-ee-on?
Yup, corrected noted! ;)
Zombie music. Are you crazy. One minute is all I can take.
At least save in a lossless format, so that you can collaborate, compare, calibrate and cooperate with others. Simple rule - NEVER use JPEG. None of the pixel values are the same as the uncompressed raw image. Check it. Save to jpg, save to lossless format, read them both with a program that can read pixels, then compare.