My Classic Boat Q&A
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- Опубликовано: 31 июл 2024
- Yachting journalist, Dick Durham quizzes Kraken's Dick Beaumont questions posed by My Classic Boat viewers.
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I'm a Fan of Mr. Beaumont's assertions! Having Gloriously GROUNDED a Hunter 25 in 1978 and loosing the keel during its extraction from a spoil bank.... I can attest that several thousand U.S. Dollars later, it was a better boat for the next man to own and I bid it farewell!
The Westsail 42 that we owned next was a Full Keel construction and was so STOUT that she displaced 19.8 short tons empty.
We loved that boat and crossed the Gulf of Mexico Several Times.. during ownership. A FULL KEEL seems to allow the craft to maintain a heading almost as an afterthought.
Thank You for your efforts to build a better boat for the rest of us!
Absolutely LOVE that you adress all the negative comments calmly. Keep it coming!
Great to have feedback and we are always open to answer any questions. :)
He looks like Mike from Breaking Bad. I really like this guy's honesty and commitment to bluewater boats
As the below average income guy it would be nice to see a bare bone version with all the safety designs offered at a lower price point.
I agree about the bolt on keel issue. I see so many new to sailing in the last 15 years buy the cheap fixer upper and put all the effort into painting and getting the ice box to work and hardly anyone ever takes the time to inspect keel bolts, or any structure involved with the keels. Lots of flexing keels out there. Get a shoebox, keep twisting it back and forth and you get an idea of what happens to the knuckle between the keel and the hull after a few miles. When you look at the corners of the shoebox and how deformed it has become.
Fabulously designed for Blue Water Sailing. A Kraken boat is just simply not for the average guy cost wise. Maybe when they 20-30 years old we could afford one. I truly appreciate Dick Beaumont philosophy and logically answers to these question.
Good to hear all of the perspectives. Good information. When the subject of steel came up...i only thought...Aluminum! Garcia Exploration...
Yes, that is THE OTHER boat I'm studying. The word so often used in the many sailing related decisions is of course, "compromises," with the focus on ones intended use and environment.
My second or third time back to listen again. Love the thoroughness of Mr Beaumont's thinking and how well he makes his points without projecting a "mean streak" in his analysis of those holding different beliefs.
If there are other sailing related topics he would be willing to address and film for sharing, I'll bet there are many more in this community who would also love to hear them...
Thank you Mr Beaumont for these interviews!
my most concern about is the quality and craftsmanship of these boats since it is manufactured in China . who train the workers and who handle the quality control ? i am Chinese , but sorry , i won't trust the Chinese workers and thing that made in China .
@@xuchun5371 They are currently made in Turkey by real craftsman.
Excellent interview,honest perspective.
Love the honesty.
I'm very glad I ran into this because I'm a novice just starting in the world of sailing and I'm in the research part of it still but one day soon I will buy a boat and will sail the world. So learning about keels through him was wonderful. Certainly changes my choice for boats.
Buy a 22ft boat this week for £1000 and £20 a week mooring/ insurance. I have, just to practice on. I have purchased a second one moored in a different area to further gain experience. My goal is to circumnavigate the UK. Then once I have done that clockwise and anticlockwise I'll know what I want from a bigger boat.
Great video👏👍 Thank you for sharing your knowledge & experience…
Mr. Beaumont, I cannot thank you enough for the message on safe sailing via risk mitigation wherever possible. Having grown up on the oceans and having spent many years in the US Coast Guard, I can attest to this; when things go wrong, they do so very quickly. Having a "bomb proof" vessel out in the deep blue is without question the best protection against fatal outcomes. Semper Paratus = A Kraken
Very educational,, thank you both
Cool boat. Very strong construction and great design philosophy. There are other blue water boats in the 50 - 60 range that will prove to be competitive when buyers are choosing a boat. The Amel's come to mind immediately, and of course there is Hallberg Rassy.
Great interview
Wonderful conversation and solid points....just wondering why Island Packet Yachts aren't given credit....as they are a full keel boat in all models.... And still in production.
He has a very good point -- what about the bolt on keel of an Oyster 82 less than 2 years old just falling off during normal sailing.
Wasn`t that an optional extra?
Awesome agree
Retired Army looking for a 50 ft r to sea all that I didn't sea on the hard. Great vid. thks
Love the comment haven’t lost a keel “yet” My reply would be BUT… what the keel attachment damaged? Just because it doesn’t come off completely does not mean all is fine. Cheeki Rafiki didn’t lose its keel initially but privious damage to its keel lead to a catastrophe and lives lost. And the owners felt the damage was repaired sufficiently.
Hi hearing your story on what happened to your keel did you think that a submarine navy had rising to the surface and bump into your keel. Red October thrilled.
Brendan IRL..
Hard not to appreciate a philosophy of safety first no matter the price....that's the difference. Unwavering commitment to achieve excellence as defined by durability and quality. There are examples of other companies that use this philosophy...too few I'm afraid
Put all the cost into designing the below water surfaces to withstand when hitting the stuff that ones does fing out ther. But I don't need goldplated head handles, and all the other unnecessary costs. Put an electric motor and lithium batteries and forget the watermaker, washing machine, TV, etc.
There is a video that I will try to find published by a young couple who happen upon a fairly large production yacht which had been beached after having had the keel ripped out from banging on the seabed in the shallows. You can see clearly how the impact has initiated some damage that has then been exacerbated by the sea state levering the keel bolts free from the hull. It looks rather scary. Will try to find the video and post it here for you to use because It's a very good example.
Hi Paul, thanks for your comments and yes, it certainly is a problem due to trends in the industry towards weight and cost saving. Let us know if you find the video!
@@KrakenYachts I found it then forgot to post it... Sorry about that! ruclips.net/video/2CilPa6OJj4/видео.html
@@KrakenYachts Check this one out. wavetrain.net/2015/12/01/another-major-keel-failure-what-really-happened-to-polina-star-iii/
If you go to the website and look at a boat tours you’ll see that the keel is just one of many safety features he built into this boat. It’s really built for worst case scenarios but also luxurious cruising.
You can't argue the facts. The problem is that this makes sailing the oceans impossible for a budget sailor like me. Unless of course I can find an old old boat in mint condition.
Sam Homes sailed across the Atlantic in a $10K boat. You're just looking for an excuse.
That must be super soft mud there. In the background I like the apparently small sailboat upright in the mud, on what looks to be just its keel. It must be very well balanced both fore and aft as well as side to side. Next, first question, did it float off or did the suction of the mud try to hold her down before she popped up? This is about the 4th time thru all the Kraken videos. I am sold. Second question, about how long does it take to put an order together and get it finalized? Last question for today, what is the current lead time from finalized order to hand over? Thank you. Be safe!
That's a twin keel boat. It's standing on both short keels on what appears to be very hard sand.
Given that things get way more difficult, expensive and, above all, ambiguous with other types than bolt-on keels, I think the very best course of action for most of us is to buy a boat that has no keel smile, surveys well, and has one of a preferred keel types. That said, I’m not sure it’s right to extrapolate good engineering to say that bolt on keels don’t belong on cruising boats. It’s all about safety factors, and after all, keel failures, were, at least as far as I know, pretty much unheard of until builders changed to relying on a glued in web to stiffen the system without passing the bolts through said reinforcing members.
Is it not possible, since the weight is all at the bottom of the keel, although there are stringers and runners, that the weight can cause the fibreglass to break, crack and break off?
Hi Tom, it’s all about distribution of loads and absorption of forces. I think the design philosophy of the Kraken is that an impact to the keel is not dissimilar to an impact to the hull. Check out the website to see the additional protection a Kraken has over and above other vessels in the hull too. Of course, any impact to any vessel is bad, but it is how the structure deals with that impact that counts. I have hit a whale before in an older Hallberg-Rassy, with integral keel thank god.
Will I be as safe in the Kraken as in a metal hull Blue Water boat sailing extensively into the Arctic Circle?
Probably not, at least not for steel. However, Dick has mentioned a number of times in previous interviews about the crash protection on these boats, including crash bulkheads that separate the bow and stern from the rest of the boat, and extensive use of Kevlar in ares that would be in danger from a grounding, or hitting an object.
That being said, I don't think anything beats the strength of a well constructed and well maintained steel boat.
@@operator0 Thank you for your reply. I do remember hearing those points in another video, yet I can't help but wonder what the engineers would say re these materials (compared to one another) in the context of a structure designed for the contingencies of impact for "puncture wounds" as well as design "impact damage" (cracking) resistance.
Perhaps no one will be concerned enough to do such testing which may be an answer in itself; namely, the difference is negligible after adding Kevlar to the build in those exposed areas.
@@randystrand908 There has been plenty of testing. Steel has a remarkable combination of hardness and toughness that can hardly be matched by anything else, especially in the price range. Fiberglass is very hard, but lacks the toughness of steel. If fiberglass gets hit, it's likely to crack, where-as steel is more likely to bend.
Of course, steel has its disadvantages, the biggest being it's propensity to corrode. This is where fiberglass excels. Steel is very maintenance intensive, where-as fiberglass is not. That's why fiberglass is so popular. Also, Steel and aluminum are harder to fabricate complex shapes with than fiberglass, so boat manufactures like fiberglass over those two metals for that reason as well.
@@operator0 Appreciate this info! Thank you.
I believe Steel also conducts the cold waters into the vessel more the glass.
When you sail a lot you are playing a numbers game with nature. Somewhere out there in the future there is a breaking 40 meter rogue wave with your name written on it. You better have a boat that can survive something like that. I hope Kraken Yachts are strong enough...
Do Kraken boats have self taking and hydraulic winches ?
The Kraken 58 has the option for full hydraulics and the Kraken 66 comes with hydraulics as standard. We do not spec self taking jibs as we feel the disadvantage far outweigh any advantage they provide
I think if I was to buy a boat with a bolt on keel that the first thing to do before setting off ocean sailing would be take the keel off put new bolts in the keel and re attache the keel. BUT how can you then get the new bolts to bond as good as the original bolts is that possible I wonder ? I soppose you could have a new keel made
My mates just bought a boat feeling 20 something I think
Not sure if he had a survey it’s a fixer upper anyway he noticed as they boat was lowered onto the ground the keel moves. It turns out the keel is really rusty and he has to replace it. Now !! His found a second hand keel and now I’m thinking if that 30-40 years old what’s that gonna be like ?
I am unhappy with Kraken! Not yet building a replacement for my Sadler 34. Please hurry up and build a mid 30s (10-11.99m)LOA.
I would love a K50 if I only had the time and money
I had the same experience in the med. The boat stopped dead and got going again. NIL damage. Thus a whale as there are in the med for at least 20 years.
I wish he would make a 30-32 footer with a zero keel and put all the cost of the
'Exide Challenger' and 'Drum', both lost their keels.
Those are race boats. apples and oranges. and even as such, Drum had a manufacturing problem not a design problem. all that said I dont really disagree with the kraken philosophy for Bluewater.
He has a point but I think he totally over does it. Now a days what are called bolt on keels are actually bonded on with modern adhesives. Adhesives are amazingly strong, the bonds are stronger than the materials. I wish this guy nothing but the best with his new company and applaud his marketing efforts but believe there are many ways to solve every sailing issue and when someone tells you their way is best they likely are trying to sell you something.
"We have glue!" lol, lmao
It's about surface area. Even if the adhesive is stronger than the fiberglass it's bonded to, you still have a relatively small area where the two are joined and strength would be compromised if shear forces are applied to the keel. On an integrated keel, you have the full hull thickness of fiberglass wrapped around the entire keel. If one of those keels gets ripped off, it would take considerably more force to rip off than one bolted and glued on. Enough force, in fact, to tear a giant hole in the bottom of the hull.
Bolts + Gorilla Glue = Bluewater cruiser? You clearly dont get it.
@@TripleWhopperWithCheese Commercial airliners and the space craft are put together like that, more and sufficient for any boat including race boats that go in the Southern Ocean. BTW the term Bluewater cruiser means different things to different people. Frankly I have no idea what you or anyone else means when they use that term.
@@danknox9986 Production boats are not bluewater boats. You clearly have zero experience offshore.
But you are only talking to millionaires.... who can afford a Kraken? I did have a 50 year old Moody Halberdier 36 but I wouldn't take her around the world. I took her across the Irish Sea, and she survived 4-5 meter seas. I agree with your philosophy, but I just bought a Jeanneau 43DS. I would love a Kraken but if I waited to afford one my sailing days would be over, or an Amel. Yes, its true, bolt on keel boats have suffered tragic endings, but then so have a multitude of other types of boats including 1000 foot tankers, old cutters, the Titanic... 1700 tradewind beauties...
so I get the argument but it doesn't solve the problem when all you are doing is discouraging so many people from diving into the enjoyment of sailing. So it's a bit too much elitist, yacht clubishish. Yet, so many have done really well in what you imply are death traps. If you look statistically... how many bolt on keel boats have circumnavigated just fine versus those who have met tragic end I think you will find in a set of actuarial tables that statistically its a non starter. I know you want to sell boats and you have lots of experience, but man... don't manipulate people because most can't afford a Kraken. Integral keels have their own issues... delamination weakening the bond etc... I don't like this sales strategy of fear. The numbers don't play out. Yes I have heard now in many interviews you give about hitting the phantom whale... Up sell. Don't fear sell. 'Hey people, if you want a bolt on keel great! wish you the best, here is an alternative we think if you can afford will be a better option for those rare few that end up in Indonesia from Exeter. ' This sales strategy just creates bad karma...I hate negative selling.
From Dick.
No doubt the first lemming to jump over the cliff says don’t worry guys we’re all doing it. Sticking your head in the sand won’t solve the problem but I do agree you won’t see the truck coming. The big problem you have is your claiming I’m misrepresenting the case whilst at the same time misrepresenting me. Isn’t it funny how smokers always know someone who has smoked all their life and is still fit and healthy at 85 years old whilst ignoring the warning on the packet that illustrates the people that died of smoking related diseases.
Fact: I publicly have said many times that there are plenty of options for sailors who wish to sail around the world and cannot afford a Kraken. I have even written an article about it. oceansailormagazine.com/turning-back-the-clock/
Fact : You might sail for years across oceans with a bolt on keel and a blade hung rudder but you’d be stupid to think that means these yachts are the best type of yachts to do it in.
Fact: I have never said that yachts with bolt on keels and blade hung rudders are not fit for the purpose of sailing, they are fine as long as you stay within range of rescue. But you can try to defend your bolt on keel or blade hung rudder until your blue in the face and that won’t change the fact that they increase the risk of a serious incident compared to a yachts that doesn’t have these vulnerabilities.
Fact: I did hit a large object that stopped my 45 ton yacht whilst sailing at 9 kts in 2000 m of water, when it hit the skeg that protects the rudder. My crew and I and my boat not only survived, but sailed on as normal for the remaining 600nm of the voyage across the Southern Atlantic a thousand miles from the the nearest shipping lane and only hope of rescue.
Fact: I did T Bone a 30’x 6’ foot log on my maiden voyage of my previous yacht Moonshadow whilst running at 8 kts in the dead of the night on passage from Hong Kong to The Philippines. A 5mm thick GRP hull would not have survive the impact of that I’m certain.
Fact: I did run into an uncharted coral reef at night in Northern Indonesia. I’m certain I only survived this incident which was 250nm from the nearest habitation because I had an integral keel and a full skeg rudder. It was horrendous.
Fact: RUclips and the media in general carry dozens of tales of woe from survivors of yachts that lost their rudders, the poor sods that didn’t survive remain a silent statistic
Fact: World Sailing organization the international body that represents Racing under sail reported more than 90 incidences of bolt on keels coming off or detaching but hanging on over a twenty year period and that’s just racing boats which are the huge minority of all sail boats. oceansailormagazine.com/are-we-facing-a-keel-and-rudder-failure-time-bomb
Fact: If it the keel comes off at sea the crews chances of survival is small
You decide.
Perhaps substitute the word respect instead of fear. A good friend of mine and fellow devotee of the ‘Why don’t we load the dice in our favor’ campaign, recently told me the correct term for the banal defense of something that’s clearly wrong, is called cognitive dissonance. It means defending the indefensible because you own one yourself.
@@KrakenYachts Wow, appreciated the time and effort you took to "defend" your, I think, very positive positions in the face of those invested in boats which are vulnerable ...
In the long run, you will shine for what you stand for in a world worshiping "do it cheaper."
Dont be bitter you bought a cheap production boat and dont like the facts about it.
my most concern about is the quality and craftsmanship of these boats since it is manufactured in China . who train the workers and who handle the quality control ? i am Chinese , but sorry , i won't trust the Chinese workers and thing that made in China .
Kraken yachts are built in Turkey :) The craftsmanship onboard is unmatched.