i feel like its kind of cope. the dev team has a track record of being arrogant and stubborn example: instead of nerfing burst damage and healing they increased everyones health and gave dps a new passive. they dont like to admit they were wrong so if the community asks for one thing, they will go and do a completely different thing that they think will satisfy us while also creating whole new problems, instead of just reverting their idiotic decisions.
if 6v6 happens, it would be really interesting to see if there is a sudden learning curve for all the new OW2 tank players, ive been playing since season 3 of OW1 and I still remember all the tank synergys, it would be fre-elo for like 2 weeks if you've played the original.
I've enjoyed 5v5 and was only a player or 6v6 for a short while but I'd be down for them to bring it back, even as an experimental balance change for a season or two. honestly the dream would be to have a separate queue for 6v6 but i feel queue times would make that impossible. but honestly theres a lot about 6v6 that feels very messy and busy to me as a 5v5 player
it's one of those "you had to be there" situations. The game actually thrived in chaos before overpowered supports like brig and bap were released and started goats and double shield metas. Now it seems like the only people who actually like 5v5 are dps and supp cause tank is insufferable.
@@bambampewpew32 You could say it was a little more visual chaos, but as far as the pace of the game goes, 2-2-2 improved it so much. 5v5 feels like a respawn simulator a lot of times, especially when you get a Tank that doesn't actually Tank for the team, like a Doomfist, Orisa, or Roadhog. Even Tanks like Zarya and Junker Queen seem to make the game too fast paced where you're constantly walking back from spawn in 5v5.
about tanks .. tbh as a tank main in every game.. I really like playing tanks in paladins.. 5v5 but we run 2 tanks .. 1 for point control 1 for taking space.. as a Yag,Khan,Torv, Nyx player .. I really like 2 tanks format
IMO the ONLY reason we went to 5v5 is because DPS and heal queues were long. It had nothing to do with balance. This is the reason we’ll never get 6v6 back
while there is some truth to that, Aaron has said at one point in high masters all the roles were queueing at the same rate in ow1. i bet in was in october 2020 when they nerfed bap and brig, and the meta wasn’t double shield. i think them leaving tanks in an awful meta for 3 years would make people not want to queue the role on top of people not wanting to play the game. also considering how the game gets frequent content/ balances and is free to play that has boosted the player count. so i’m not shocked the game with updates and free to play has faster queues. i think another supporting evidence is look at the queues in ow2. when support felt miserable nobody wanted to play it, you didn’t feel impactful, then supports became really strong around season 6/7 and guess what role felt pretty bad, dps. dps queues were instant, the role was def losing popularity and support queue times increased. then the nerf supports and dps are strong with the release of season 9 and we saw dps q’s go up and supports came down. 6v6 doesn’t solve everything, but we keep trying bizarre things to make 5v5 work when it just sucks. we have a lot of balancing that would need to be done but the removal of cc, orisa no longer having a shield, on top of many other things 6v6 would feel far better for every role imo and make the game actually feel like a team game instead of deathmatch.
But that’s the thing balance was fixable in 6v6 but in 5v5 it’s not so we might eventually go back if people keep leaving the tank role I don’t know anyone that plays it anymore everyone either doesn’t play tank or quit the game the role is suffering that’s why there doing all they can to want to play it that why all these buffs and armor changes are happening
On that note I'll say I've never seen more tank players suffering or straight up stepping away from the role like the current 5v5 giga counter shitshow. Even the OG ow1 tank players who have seen some shit. 5v5 might have cut the requirement of tank players by half, but it also slaughtered the tank experience and is continuously doing so, thereby pushing people away from tank. That in turn invalidates the queue time argument imo.
Only reason dps and supp queues were long was because they stopped releasing new tanks and didn't balance the old ones which forced everyone off of the tank role. Instead they released overpowered supports that created goats and double shield. It actually had everything to do with balance
12:28 this is so true bro. Then you list tons of solutions to fix the issues people had with 6v6 that they just never tried in 6v6…. All these good changes done in 5v5 but this game still feels awful. It we did one of them in 6v6 that would’ve improved queue times for tank. If we did all of them… well I think that easily solves queue times. Anyone acting like tank would never be enjoyed in 6v6 just has no perspective or imagination. Also, tank was enjoyed in 6v6 by many people, myself included, I just hated to be forced to lock the Horse. Same goes with this game. I just hope we get 6v6 before the 10th anniversary. Hopefully before 2025…
I really like how you talked about the things you did, the name brand, the fixes to cc and problematic characters that allowed double shield to begin with, 5v5 is attached to a HORRIBLE chapter of overwatch 2's history and it would better for them to swallow their pride and go back, the community would appreciate that, cc is not as annoying in ow2, there's no XQC clip (unless you're a ball/doomfist player) orisa doesn't have a shield, Ramattra can't keep his shield up for long, so double shield would be considerably harder to replicate in overwatch 2 (and would only affect higher ranks because no one would be able to consistently do double shield in qp and metal ranks because the meta isn't forced there), the true fact of the matter is, 5v5 is not the best option for overwatch as a game, it creates too many problems and sacrifices a lot of the good identity the game had in order to fix a problem that is already fixed without the need to go 5v5
Most people left the game not because tanks aren't fun but because the game is stale and it's basically the same game as it launched apart from role lock and 5v5. People want new content, trying to bring back to "classic OW" is the worst idea ever.
Nah people still play "stale games" csgo(b4 they updated it to cs2) halo(literally ican load into a full lobby on pc halo combat evolved from 2002) gta5 etc etc if anything when these games try all the new marketing schemes like live service free to play cosmetic pumped battpass shite thats when these games start to lose there playerbases. We rly need to stop expecting games to be constantly updated with new content, we used to buy a cd disc and thats it u got what ugot and we all still love alot of those classics and yearn for new games to have as much quality and high standards as they did back then
No he just doesn’t get the 25% dmgr but he’s still gonna go less dmg to armor over all so his dmg is less overall flats made video looking at dmg numbers before and after the patch if u want to watch it
until they fix what caused the issues in the first place (that beig support and movement creep) i dont think 6v6 will be as good as it could be, and wed be going back to ow1 with the 50 min queues again
I think OW would benefit a lot from rotating the format. 5v5 and 6v6. Maby even 7v7 and open Q could get shots. Switch between 5v5 and 6v6 every 2 to 3 seasons. OW 5v5 has forced the playerbase to understand the game better and learn more characters etc. Also with nerfs or removal of invulnerability we wouldn't have to deal with obnoxious sustain meta's. Ram and JQ(less so) are pretty good into shields. 6v6 wouldnt have the same problems.
if they would stick to 5v5 they should really focus on having counter play for tanks, flat out buffing health, armor, damage would yes feel good on tank and buffs that tanks need but I feel like it wouldn't be good on the long run, it would also feel bad to play against tanks as dps or even support, especially dps because nobody likes when they can't do shit, so the dps focus on supports and now the supports feel dreadful and will complain. It will be a never ending cycle kind of like a looping domino effect. So in my opinion they should really add buffs that counter that tanks weakness, not just buffing like 500 health to rein. It will make tank v tank more fun even if you are at the disadvantage or "countered". I feel like the best example of this is like doomfist, idk what yall opinion on him is, if he good or bad, but I believe that he has the most outplay potential even if countered, like he can at least do something as long as your good enough (is what its supposed to be especially on tanks). So basically add things or abilities that answer that tanks weakness (ofcourse it should take skill) not just buffing raw stats.
As someone who is a tank main i only really like playing tank in paladins because two tanks are meta in that game. The idea of solo tanking really doesn't sound like a fun time to me. In high elo paladins we always run two tanks, one main tank and one off tank.
@@lukeaustin4465 I get that, I honestly just feel like both have drawbacks and advantages, 6v6 makes gameplay better and has balancing benefits and issues, 5v5 makes gameplay clarity easier and has balancing benefits and issues, the whole Queue-times thing is sorta BS imho x.x
I honestly feel like going back to 6v6 would actually just make CounterWatch even worse. Adding back a second tank can be considered a "dps nerf", since now there is a second body between them and who they are "supposed' to be killing (other DPS and Support). And what's the best way to get rid of the tank that's blocking you from getting elims? Just blow them up. Yes, I understand that a second tank would be there to assist in soaking some of that damage and aggro. Yes, I understand that one tank can help cover another weaknesses. But do you honestly expect the Overwatch community to just give up counter swapping just because they bring back 6v6? This is purely subjective, of course, but I can only see it making more of a problem and it's not like they're going to just forget counter swapping is a thing. I also feel like it would make supports even better than they have been in OW2. A second body is just flat out more value from every single support ability and more uptime on ults. It would also, as a result of DPS getting "nerfed", require more damage output from supports feeding into the value and ult cycle even more. It would also alienate characters that can't deal decent damage, such as mercy or weaver and they would just devolve further into heal boting. Lastly, it would absolutely ruin whatever comeback Overwatch is trying to make with it's eSports. A lot of eSports start at the collegiate/pub level. It's exponentially easier for a college/pub group/local organizer to accommodate a team of 5 than it is 6. I cannot think of a single eSport that has had more than five players other than Overwatch. And that's not to say they don't exist, just a review of how relevant they are under the assumption they actually exist. Keep in mind for above, I played OW1. I am not in the upper echelons of game play (I am various levels of Diamond on all roles). I am aware the balance team can make changes to characters. I personally believe 5v5 to be better than 6v6, though I have no real negative emotions towards 6v6. Just trying to post some different arguments like OP asked.
![Minigolf 1 [321 PTS, with savestates] - Hot Shots Golf Fore!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/aw2YAeqCJMw/mqdefault.jpg)
You can always count on Blizzard to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else.
-Winston Churchill
Winton churchill
I want 6v6 so much
me praying this isnt cope before watching:🙏🏾
i feel like its kind of cope. the dev team has a track record of being arrogant and stubborn example: instead of nerfing burst damage and healing they increased everyones health and gave dps a new passive. they dont like to admit they were wrong so if the community asks for one thing, they will go and do a completely different thing that they think will satisfy us while also creating whole new problems, instead of just reverting their idiotic decisions.
if 6v6 happens, it would be really interesting to see if there is a sudden learning curve for all the new OW2 tank players, ive been playing since season 3 of OW1 and I still remember all the tank synergys, it would be fre-elo for like 2 weeks if you've played the original.
I've enjoyed 5v5 and was only a player or 6v6 for a short while but I'd be down for them to bring it back, even as an experimental balance change for a season or two. honestly the dream would be to have a separate queue for 6v6 but i feel queue times would make that impossible. but honestly theres a lot about 6v6 that feels very messy and busy to me as a 5v5 player
it's one of those "you had to be there" situations. The game actually thrived in chaos before overpowered supports like brig and bap were released and started goats and double shield metas. Now it seems like the only people who actually like 5v5 are dps and supp cause tank is insufferable.
@@branBRippin for realll dude, the chaos was actually a GOOD thing imo, and it worked
@@bambampewpew32 You could say it was a little more visual chaos, but as far as the pace of the game goes, 2-2-2 improved it so much. 5v5 feels like a respawn simulator a lot of times, especially when you get a Tank that doesn't actually Tank for the team, like a Doomfist, Orisa, or Roadhog. Even Tanks like Zarya and Junker Queen seem to make the game too fast paced where you're constantly walking back from spawn in 5v5.
they will only add it when the game is on life support in hopes of bringing fans back right now its still in a safe state
about tanks .. tbh as a tank main in every game.. I really like playing tanks in paladins.. 5v5 but we run 2 tanks .. 1 for point control 1 for taking space.. as a Yag,Khan,Torv, Nyx player .. I really like 2 tanks format
lmao yeah it was awesome if you didnt' play ow1, and that sounds fun I like paladins too
IMO the ONLY reason we went to 5v5 is because DPS and heal queues were long. It had nothing to do with balance. This is the reason we’ll never get 6v6 back
while there is some truth to that, Aaron has said at one point in high masters all the roles were queueing at the same rate in ow1. i bet in was in october 2020 when they nerfed bap and brig, and the meta wasn’t double shield. i think them leaving tanks in an awful meta for 3 years would make people not want to queue the role on top of people not wanting to play the game. also considering how the game gets frequent content/ balances and is free to play that has boosted the player count. so i’m not shocked the game with updates and free to play has faster queues. i think another supporting evidence is look at the queues in ow2. when support felt miserable nobody wanted to play it, you didn’t feel impactful, then supports became really strong around season 6/7 and guess what role felt pretty bad, dps. dps queues were instant, the role was def losing popularity and support queue times increased. then the nerf supports and dps are strong with the release of season 9 and we saw dps q’s go up and supports came down. 6v6 doesn’t solve everything, but we keep trying bizarre things to make 5v5 work when it just sucks. we have a lot of balancing that would need to be done but the removal of cc, orisa no longer having a shield, on top of many other things 6v6 would feel far better for every role imo and make the game actually feel like a team game instead of deathmatch.
But that’s the thing balance was fixable in 6v6 but in 5v5 it’s not so we might eventually go back if people keep leaving the tank role I don’t know anyone that plays it anymore everyone either doesn’t play tank or quit the game the role is suffering that’s why there doing all they can to want to play it that why all these buffs and armor changes are happening
On that note I'll say I've never seen more tank players suffering or straight up stepping away from the role like the current 5v5 giga counter shitshow. Even the OG ow1 tank players who have seen some shit. 5v5 might have cut the requirement of tank players by half, but it also slaughtered the tank experience and is continuously doing so, thereby pushing people away from tank. That in turn invalidates the queue time argument imo.
I get tank games in 1~ minute but support is abt 16-20~ minutes.
Only reason dps and supp queues were long was because they stopped releasing new tanks and didn't balance the old ones which forced everyone off of the tank role. Instead they released overpowered supports that created goats and double shield. It actually had everything to do with balance
THE RISK OF RAIN 2 SOUNDTRACK BRO
hell yeah ball meta
👏👏👏
Ball players rise up ✊🏻
12:28 this is so true bro. Then you list tons of solutions to fix the issues people had with 6v6 that they just never tried in 6v6…. All these good changes done in 5v5 but this game still feels awful. It we did one of them in 6v6 that would’ve improved queue times for tank. If we did all of them… well I think that easily solves queue times. Anyone acting like tank would never be enjoyed in 6v6 just has no perspective or imagination. Also, tank was enjoyed in 6v6 by many people, myself included, I just hated to be forced to lock the Horse. Same goes with this game.
I just hope we get 6v6 before the 10th anniversary. Hopefully before 2025…
the 25% resistance to headshots doesnt apply to mauga's crits. he'll still be pretty strong yet overall worse against armor in general
I really like how you talked about the things you did, the name brand, the fixes to cc and problematic characters that allowed double shield to begin with, 5v5 is attached to a HORRIBLE chapter of overwatch 2's history and it would better for them to swallow their pride and go back, the community would appreciate that, cc is not as annoying in ow2, there's no XQC clip (unless you're a ball/doomfist player) orisa doesn't have a shield, Ramattra can't keep his shield up for long, so double shield would be considerably harder to replicate in overwatch 2 (and would only affect higher ranks because no one would be able to consistently do double shield in qp and metal ranks because the meta isn't forced there), the true fact of the matter is, 5v5 is not the best option for overwatch as a game, it creates too many problems and sacrifices a lot of the good identity the game had in order to fix a problem that is already fixed without the need to go 5v5
Hopium
Most people left the game not because tanks aren't fun but because the game is stale and it's basically the same game as it launched apart from role lock and 5v5. People want new content, trying to bring back to "classic OW" is the worst idea ever.
Nah people still play "stale games" csgo(b4 they updated it to cs2) halo(literally ican load into a full lobby on pc halo combat evolved from 2002) gta5 etc etc if anything when these games try all the new marketing schemes like live service free to play cosmetic pumped battpass shite thats when these games start to lose there playerbases. We rly need to stop expecting games to be constantly updated with new content, we used to buy a cd disc and thats it u got what ugot and we all still love alot of those classics and yearn for new games to have as much quality and high standards as they did back then
Just make it an option, need two Tanks so they dont gelt melted down by the dps like they Do rn
its confimed that the mauga headshot fire bonus is uneffected so he will still be good against tanks if i recall
No he just doesn’t get the 25% dmgr but he’s still gonna go less dmg to armor over all so his dmg is less overall flats made video looking at dmg numbers before and after the patch if u want to watch it
#bringbackclassicowerwatch
until they fix what caused the issues in the first place (that beig support and movement creep) i dont think 6v6 will be as good as it could be, and wed be going back to ow1 with the 50 min queues again
It should take 2 characters to kill a tank, there is no reason one DPS should be able to kill a full health tank
I think OW would benefit a lot from rotating the format. 5v5 and 6v6. Maby even 7v7 and open Q could get shots. Switch between 5v5 and 6v6 every 2 to 3 seasons. OW 5v5 has forced the playerbase to understand the game better and learn more characters etc. Also with nerfs or removal of invulnerability we wouldn't have to deal with obnoxious sustain meta's. Ram and JQ(less so) are pretty good into shields. 6v6 wouldnt have the same problems.
if they would stick to 5v5 they should really focus on having counter play for tanks, flat out buffing health, armor, damage would yes feel good on tank and buffs that tanks need but I feel like it wouldn't be good on the long run, it would also feel bad to play against tanks as dps or even support, especially dps because nobody likes when they can't do shit, so the dps focus on supports and now the supports feel dreadful and will complain. It will be a never ending cycle kind of like a looping domino effect. So in my opinion they should really add buffs that counter that tanks weakness, not just buffing like 500 health to rein. It will make tank v tank more fun even if you are at the disadvantage or "countered". I feel like the best example of this is like doomfist, idk what yall opinion on him is, if he good or bad, but I believe that he has the most outplay potential even if countered, like he can at least do something as long as your good enough (is what its supposed to be especially on tanks). So basically add things or abilities that answer that tanks weakness (ofcourse it should take skill) not just buffing raw stats.
visual overload, lack of crowd control, games more fun 5v5 (I literally play all roles in sub Masters), I liked 6v6 but this is genuinely just better.
As someone who is a tank main i only really like playing tank in paladins because two tanks are meta in that game. The idea of solo tanking really doesn't sound like a fun time to me. In high elo paladins we always run two tanks, one main tank and one off tank.
@@lukeaustin4465 I get that, I honestly just feel like both have drawbacks and advantages, 6v6 makes gameplay better and has balancing benefits and issues, 5v5 makes gameplay clarity easier and has balancing benefits and issues, the whole Queue-times thing is sorta BS imho x.x
I honestly feel like going back to 6v6 would actually just make CounterWatch even worse. Adding back a second tank can be considered a "dps nerf", since now there is a second body between them and who they are "supposed' to be killing (other DPS and Support). And what's the best way to get rid of the tank that's blocking you from getting elims? Just blow them up. Yes, I understand that a second tank would be there to assist in soaking some of that damage and aggro. Yes, I understand that one tank can help cover another weaknesses. But do you honestly expect the Overwatch community to just give up counter swapping just because they bring back 6v6? This is purely subjective, of course, but I can only see it making more of a problem and it's not like they're going to just forget counter swapping is a thing.
I also feel like it would make supports even better than they have been in OW2. A second body is just flat out more value from every single support ability and more uptime on ults. It would also, as a result of DPS getting "nerfed", require more damage output from supports feeding into the value and ult cycle even more. It would also alienate characters that can't deal decent damage, such as mercy or weaver and they would just devolve further into heal boting.
Lastly, it would absolutely ruin whatever comeback Overwatch is trying to make with it's eSports. A lot of eSports start at the collegiate/pub level. It's exponentially easier for a college/pub group/local organizer to accommodate a team of 5 than it is 6. I cannot think of a single eSport that has had more than five players other than Overwatch. And that's not to say they don't exist, just a review of how relevant they are under the assumption they actually exist.
Keep in mind for above, I played OW1. I am not in the upper echelons of game play (I am various levels of Diamond on all roles). I am aware the balance team can make changes to characters. I personally believe 5v5 to be better than 6v6, though I have no real negative emotions towards 6v6. Just trying to post some different arguments like OP asked.
OW should get rid of the concept of roles and just let each character be unique