I'm teaching myself to play piano on youtube, you are one of a few teachers who is helping me drastically from every 10-15 min video you post, thanks so much
A major is the V chord of the D harmonic minor schale which is the relative minor of F major. That's why it sounds good in a song in F. I would not called this non-diatonic since the song would have changed to the relative minor when the chord is used.
@journey994 Hi! Yep - thanks for ordering, I noticed it go through. I would have thought you'll have it by the weekend. Basically, the improvisation material uses approaches based on 12 bar blues that get your brain working in "improv" mode. The main scale I deal with is the blues scale for the sake of simplicity, but if you want more hunt around the channel. I'm also currently working on Book 2....! If you get stuck with anything, just yell :)
@journey994 Hi! Yep - thanks for that, I noticed it go through - I would have thought you'll have it by the weekend. Basically, the improvisation material uses approaches based on 12 bar blues that get your brain working in "improv" mode. The main scale I deal with is the blues scale for the sake of simplicity, but if you want more, hunt around the channel. I'm also currently working on Book 2....! If you get stuck with anything, just yell :)
in a major key we can borrow any diatonic chord from the parallel minor mode, i.e. minor sub-dominant, diminished super-tonic etc. In a major key, going round the circle of fifths i.e a 3-6-2-5-1 progression, any minor third of a minor chord can be sharpened to provide a leading note function. These are the two most common 'causes' of chromaticism in major keys.
As a musician I find this fascinating. I'm classically trained on piano, mostly self-taught on guitar, and generally cannot stand modern pop. The statement "Modern pop is more conservative" and "has more in common with Beethoven and Bach than [popular music from 1950 and earlier]" is actually quite telling for me. I struggle with how simple and uninteresting the actual music is in pop, compared with the singer's persona/talent. I also didn't quite realize that non-diatonic was what made Yesterday sound so interesting to me. Thank you for the explanation.
@bmiller072 Hey I'm so glad to see fellow late-starters learning to play... I'm 53 and started a couple of years ago I empathize with how hard it is to assimilate and make all this stuff "automatic"... years and years to go. Stay the course!
Came looking for how to write melody over odd chord progressions. Something between neo soul and a little more than just adding a few dominant fifths, modal mixture, and diminished chords. Mostly what I wanted, definitely helped!
Glad to have helped! If you ever have requests/suggestions for specific tutorials, let me know - I can’t promise to make it, but probs three quarters of my tutorials original with subscriber requests :)
The A in georgia can be called non diatonic, but its also a V in d that comes after it. In dutch its called an in-between dominant, mostly use to get a stronger lead to the next chord.
@MrBarPiano Whoops - indeed I do - the title is misleading. I'll change it - thanks for spotting that! I suppose in some contexts you could see it as a formation from the minor - especially in progressions in C that incorporate Eb and Bb - but that can't account for chords like A working in the key of F (as in Yesterday and Georgia on my Mind). In jazzier numbers (like Georgia) I think it's helpful to think about it in terms of jazz having a broader chromatic context than [cont...]
Bill this is great ... this is opening up a lot for me (at the stage I'm at anyways) ... I'll be watching out for those non-diatonics in the future ... and listening to just how they still manage to fit anyways. I believe I'm about to purchase your book! Thanks again ... I'll be back!
@MrBarPiano [...cont] more traditionally major/minor melodies. In a tune like "Yesterday" it almost makes sense to think of it as a mini key change. At the end of the day it's probably hard to pin down unless you're really want to dig into the musicology. I usually just give up and focus on what sounds right...!
yes dude it makes sense ! You're right about the more classical form of music today, but the Rolling Stones, I think they use some non-diatonic chords when Keith makes a 1/4 bend or 1/2 bend on his guitar , this might give the non-diatonic note don't you agree ? Oh yeah and also in Yesterday I think the main scale is F major so the second chord of the song is also non-diatonic and Paul sings the 11th so for me this chord is Em11 , I mean Em7 (9-) and 11 so E G B D A . with no 9th maybe. .but I also play and hear too much jazz' ^^
I seem to recall hearing the expression "borrowed chords" ... which seems to fit the concept of non-diatonic. I wouldn't mind hearing some examples of what chopper84a speaks of ... like how to determine the "parallel minor" ... the concept of chromaticism sounds interesting as well ... I'm surmizing that non-diatonic chords fall into the concept of chromaticism ... yes ? Thanks for your excellent tuition !
Hi Bill, do you mean with Non Diatonic chords, the chords are not usually found in the corresponding key? Many pieces of Elton John have this feature. (In C is at once a Bb or Eb) This is something I have still not understood. Perhaps these chords are formed from the minor scale (C / CM)?
Hi Bill... Quick question: In "Yesterday", if it starts on F (assume it's in the key of F?), and the second chord is an "E minor", why did you say it was still in the diatonic (E would be half-dim)... Did I miss something?? Otherwise, PLEASE POST MORE of that non-diatonic exploration.... It's one thing to understand the "rules" of "root movement", but getting the chordal qualities to go along with that is terribly daunting for me. Thanks again for your great posts!
I'm more interested in the "mini key-change" treatment of non-diatonic chords in progressions. I having a hard time find resources on this topic, if anyone can help it would be much appreciated.
That’s an interesting one, because often it’s hard to decide whether an anomaly in the chords is simply non-diatonic colour, a “mini” key change or a full key change. A great deal of it comes down to judging what works musically, using your ear: at bottom, which if those things it is doesn’t matter much (unless you’re writing an essay for a theory class...) as long as the musical effect is pleasing. I realise that’s a bit of a cop-out answer (!) so I’ll try to discuss this stuff the next time I cover key changes and non-diatonics!
Very Good! Boy, only been playing for 3 years, and at age 64 it ain't E-Z!~ I do wish you'd do more on Cocktail Piano-style playing...I'd pay to subscribe to a website that taught the style. Thought your video on it was outstanding, but need you to slow it down and break it down, so a beginner can better understand. Thank, again, great learning vid!
Hi :) Could You explain to me,how can I create chord progression which has to rely on emphasize character of chosen scale? How it looks chords progression (in the key of C major)with ionian mood and how it looks chords progression with phrygian mood(in the key of C major)?? Each scale has its own characteristic chord progression? I dont undertand how create ionian progression,dorian progression ,phrygian progression etc Sclae have own mood because of characteristic note but how about progression. C,F G (I,IV,V)- is ionian progresion/progression in ionian mood? d,G,a (ii,V,iv) - is dorian progression with dorian mood? Chord a (iv) is dominant in dorian progression? You know what I mean? :)
How about this progression,in the key of c: C,F,G7 - this progression have own character/mood? Which one?C,F,G7 is Ionian,lydian or mixolyd. progression? I try with ionian scale . Characteristic notes - fourth and seventh degree (f & b) So,if I want to create Ionian progression I should focus on those two sounds in chords? C 11 - c,e,g,b,d,f ( c is tonic for ionian scale) F 11 - f,a,c,e,g,b ( b is 7 for ionian scale) G7 - b,f,b,d,g (first inversion) C 7+ (c,g,b,e,g) C11,F11,G7,C7+ = what mood we have in this progression? And why? Or this zapodaj.net/images/5986a5dc61718.png which mood we have in this progression and why?
Hmmmm - good questions, but it would take a whole essay to answer in full. Can I suggest you start by checking out Julian Bradley's excellent video on the topic of modes? ruclips.net/video/IF47dr8sVyE/видео.html
You do not have to write full essay,just essential knowledge will be enough :) one or two videos with the essence. I've seen Julian Bradley already :) thanks.
@journey994 Hi! Yep - thanks for that, I noticed it go through - I would have thought you'll have it by the weekend. Basically, the improvisation material uses approaches based on 12 bar blues that get your brain working in "improv" mode. The main scale I deal with is the blues scale for the sake of simplicity, but if you want more, hunt around the channel. I'm also currently working on Book 2....! If you get stuck with anything, just yell :)
@journey994 Hi! Yep - thanks for ordering, I noticed it go through. I would have thought you'll have it by the weekend. Basically, the improvisation material uses approaches based on 12 bar blues that get your brain working in "improv" mode. The main scale I deal with is the blues scale for the sake of simplicity, but if you want more hunt around the channel. I'm also currently working on Book 2....! If you get stuck with anything, just yell :)
![6ix9ine - El Preso (feat. Lenier) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RQvGgosdeO8/mqdefault.jpg)
I'm teaching myself to play piano on youtube, you are one of a few teachers who is helping me drastically from every 10-15 min video you post, thanks so much
A major is the V chord of the D harmonic minor schale which is the relative minor of F major. That's why it sounds good in a song in F. I would not called this non-diatonic since the song would have changed to the relative minor when the chord is used.
@journey994 Hi! Yep - thanks for ordering, I noticed it go through. I would have thought you'll have it by the weekend. Basically, the improvisation material uses approaches based on 12 bar blues that get your brain working in "improv" mode. The main scale I deal with is the blues scale for the sake of simplicity, but if you want more hunt around the channel. I'm also currently working on Book 2....! If you get stuck with anything, just yell :)
No worries - really glad you're finding them useful :)
@journey994 Hi! Yep - thanks for that, I noticed it go through - I would have thought you'll have it by the weekend. Basically, the improvisation material uses approaches based on 12 bar blues that get your brain working in "improv" mode. The main scale I deal with is the blues scale for the sake of simplicity, but if you want more, hunt around the channel. I'm also currently working on Book 2....! If you get stuck with anything, just yell :)
in a major key we can borrow any diatonic chord from the parallel minor mode, i.e. minor sub-dominant, diminished super-tonic etc. In a major key, going round the circle of fifths i.e a 3-6-2-5-1 progression, any minor third of a minor chord can be sharpened to provide a leading note function. These are the two most common 'causes' of chromaticism in major keys.
As a musician I find this fascinating. I'm classically trained on piano, mostly self-taught on guitar, and generally cannot stand modern pop. The statement "Modern pop is more conservative" and "has more in common with Beethoven and Bach than [popular music from 1950 and earlier]" is actually quite telling for me. I struggle with how simple and uninteresting the actual music is in pop, compared with the singer's persona/talent.
I also didn't quite realize that non-diatonic was what made Yesterday sound so interesting to me. Thank you for the explanation.
You're welcome, Aaron - glad to be of help!
@bmiller072 Hey I'm so glad to see fellow late-starters learning to play... I'm 53 and started a couple of years ago I empathize with how hard it is to assimilate and make all this stuff "automatic"... years and years to go. Stay the course!
Came looking for how to write melody over odd chord progressions. Something between neo soul and a little more than just adding a few dominant fifths, modal mixture, and diminished chords.
Mostly what I wanted, definitely helped!
Glad to have helped! If you ever have requests/suggestions for specific tutorials, let me know - I can’t promise to make it, but probs three quarters of my tutorials original with subscriber requests :)
The A in georgia can be called non diatonic, but its also a V in d that comes after it. In dutch its called an in-between dominant, mostly use to get a stronger lead to the next chord.
@MrBarPiano Whoops - indeed I do - the title is misleading. I'll change it - thanks for spotting that!
I suppose in some contexts you could see it as a formation from the minor - especially in progressions in C that incorporate Eb and Bb - but that can't account for chords like A working in the key of F (as in Yesterday and Georgia on my Mind). In jazzier numbers (like Georgia) I think it's helpful to think about it in terms of jazz having a broader chromatic context than [cont...]
Bill this is great ... this is opening up a lot for me (at the stage I'm at anyways) ... I'll be watching out for those non-diatonics in the future ... and listening to just how they still manage to fit anyways. I believe I'm about to purchase your book! Thanks again ... I'll be back!
@MrBarPiano [...cont] more traditionally major/minor melodies. In a tune like "Yesterday" it almost makes sense to think of it as a mini key change. At the end of the day it's probably hard to pin down unless you're really want to dig into the musicology. I usually just give up and focus on what sounds right...!
yes dude it makes sense ! You're right about the more classical form of music today, but the Rolling Stones, I think they use some non-diatonic chords when Keith makes a 1/4 bend or 1/2 bend on his guitar , this might give the non-diatonic note don't you agree ?
Oh yeah and also in Yesterday I think the main scale is F major so the second chord of the song is also non-diatonic and Paul sings the 11th so for me this chord is Em11 , I mean Em7 (9-) and 11 so E G B D A . with no 9th maybe. .but I also play and hear too much jazz' ^^
This video convinced me to buy your book. Excellent lesson, sir. Thank you
You are wonderful as always . I love how good you explain everything . Thank you
I seem to recall hearing the expression "borrowed chords" ... which seems to fit the concept of non-diatonic. I wouldn't mind hearing some examples of what chopper84a speaks of ... like how to determine the "parallel minor" ... the concept of chromaticism sounds interesting as well ... I'm surmizing that non-diatonic chords fall into the concept of chromaticism ... yes ? Thanks for your excellent tuition !
Hi Bill,
do you mean with Non Diatonic chords, the chords are not usually found in the corresponding key?
Many pieces of Elton John have this feature. (In C is at once a Bb or Eb)
This is something I have still not understood. Perhaps these chords are formed from the minor scale (C / CM)?
@chopper84a *Applauds*
(...and runs off to dig out theory textbook, because it seems I need to do some revision!)
Hi Bill...
Quick question: In "Yesterday", if it starts on F (assume it's in the key of F?), and the second chord is an "E minor", why did you say it was still in the diatonic (E would be half-dim)... Did I miss something?? Otherwise, PLEASE POST MORE of that non-diatonic exploration.... It's one thing to understand the "rules" of "root movement", but getting the chordal qualities to go along with that is terribly daunting for me. Thanks again for your great posts!
@journey994 Broadly, yep - sending you a message :)
I am very carefuly thinking now to play a guitar or piano. Thank you for this video.
I'm more interested in the "mini key-change" treatment of non-diatonic chords in progressions.
I having a hard time find resources on this topic, if anyone can help it would be much appreciated.
That’s an interesting one, because often it’s hard to decide whether an anomaly in the chords is simply non-diatonic colour, a “mini” key change or a full key change. A great deal of it comes down to judging what works musically, using your ear: at bottom, which if those things it is doesn’t matter much (unless you’re writing an essay for a theory class...) as long as the musical effect is pleasing. I realise that’s a bit of a cop-out answer (!) so I’ll try to discuss this stuff the next time I cover key changes and non-diatonics!
Very Good! Boy, only been playing for 3 years, and at age 64 it ain't E-Z!~ I do wish you'd do more on Cocktail Piano-style playing...I'd pay to subscribe to a website that taught the style. Thought your video on it was outstanding, but need you to slow it down and break it down, so a beginner can better understand. Thank, again, great learning vid!
With 'Yesterday' the Emin isn't diatonic to F though... ? is it?!
Ahhhhhh - you're right - it isn't! The chord rooted on E in F major should in fact be E diminished.
The A major 7 is a cadence to D major ? so called secondary dominant.
A7 not A major 7.
I kept hearing Elton John's Levon in this video.
just ordered your book a few days ago, does it include a lot of scales to improvise with? or at least improvising techniques?
Hi :)
Could You explain to me,how can I create chord progression
which has to rely on emphasize character of chosen scale?
How it looks chords progression (in the key of C major)with ionian mood
and how it looks chords progression with phrygian mood(in the key of C major)??
Each scale has its own characteristic chord progression?
I dont undertand how create ionian progression,dorian progression ,phrygian progression etc
Sclae have own mood because of characteristic note
but how about progression.
C,F G (I,IV,V)- is ionian progresion/progression in ionian mood?
d,G,a (ii,V,iv) - is dorian progression with dorian mood?
Chord a (iv) is dominant in dorian progression?
You know what I mean? :)
How about this progression,in the key of c:
C,F,G7 - this progression have own character/mood?
Which one?C,F,G7 is Ionian,lydian or mixolyd. progression?
I try with ionian scale .
Characteristic notes - fourth and seventh degree (f & b)
So,if I want to create Ionian progression
I should focus on those two sounds in chords?
C 11 - c,e,g,b,d,f ( c is tonic for ionian scale)
F 11 - f,a,c,e,g,b ( b is 7 for ionian scale)
G7 - b,f,b,d,g (first inversion)
C 7+ (c,g,b,e,g)
C11,F11,G7,C7+ = what mood we have in this progression?
And why?
Or this
zapodaj.net/images/5986a5dc61718.png
which mood we have in this progression and why?
Hmmmm - good questions, but it would take a whole essay to answer in full. Can I suggest you start by checking out Julian Bradley's excellent video on the topic of modes?
ruclips.net/video/IF47dr8sVyE/видео.html
You do not have to write full essay,just essential knowledge will be enough :) one or two videos with the essence.
I've seen Julian Bradley already :) thanks.
Opiekun Dps It works if you're voice leading is good
@journey994 Hi! Yep - thanks for that, I noticed it go through - I would have thought you'll have it by the weekend. Basically, the improvisation material uses approaches based on 12 bar blues that get your brain working in "improv" mode. The main scale I deal with is the blues scale for the sake of simplicity, but if you want more, hunt around the channel. I'm also currently working on Book 2....! If you get stuck with anything, just yell :)
@journey994 Hi! Yep - thanks for ordering, I noticed it go through. I would have thought you'll have it by the weekend. Basically, the improvisation material uses approaches based on 12 bar blues that get your brain working in "improv" mode. The main scale I deal with is the blues scale for the sake of simplicity, but if you want more hunt around the channel. I'm also currently working on Book 2....! If you get stuck with anything, just yell :)