I have my ever so great grandfather's diary. He was transported from Dublin to the colonies in 1738 at 16 years of age as an indentured servant by the British as his father was a rabblerouser. While the things he writes about shows his life was not easy, he was NOT a slave. Was he ""owned.?" No. He had a contract he could try to "pay off." He escaped his servitude and fled to what is now west Virginia once he realized he would never be able to "pay off" his contract. He spent his life preaching against slavery and indentured servitude. He packed his family up and fled west to what is now Illinois in the late 1770's after serving in the revolutionary war. He stated he left because "they wouldn't free the slaves." He writes eloquently that he was not a slave and of his hatred for anyone who would enslave another. So no, Irish were not slaves, unless maybe you go back to Viking days.
Interesting you should bring up the Viking days. I've done some research into that period, and it seems that while they did have slaves, and even enslaved each other, it wasn't as bad as the US slavery. Of course, it's a long time period and a few different countries, but there are reports of slaves buying their own freedom. This suggests it was closer to indentured servants. Seems like the enslavement of black people by white people was likely the worst kind of slavery in history, although I'm not an expert on it.
@@Nerobyrne Enslaved Africans were believed to be closer to animals than humans, and people of the time tried to use science to prove this. Slavery prior to this didn't usually involve the societal belief that a slave was no longer human, just that they had fallen down the social structure to the level of slave. They could still be treated absolutely horribly, but they didn't stop being human.
The way I’ve always looked at it is like this: some bad things happened to my family because we were Irish. The thing is, when we came to the US, we had the privilege to just stop being Irish if we pleased. I don’t know if a single place in the US where Black people were just allowed to stop being Black, to disconnect from the painful things that happened to their families because they were African. What happened to my family was bad, and I’m mad about it, but I’m allowed to just unplug from it and walk away, especially here in the 21st century. The problems that came from my family being uprooted and robbed were minimal compared to the problems faced by people whose families were stolen and enslaved for generations. They’re simply not comparable.
Funny thing because the first slave owner in America was a black man, which is proof that they were free black men part of the upper class who infact had white slaves prior to buying black slaves. But real history conveniently stopped being taught for modern times because it would hurt the black identity. Blacks were not the only slaves and they certainly were not the slaves who mined and built the railrows and infrastructure
@@snailproductions8437 Actually the king of England created a law that said that an english man could kill or rape any person in Ireland without having to suffer legal repercussions around 20 years before the atlantic slave trade that ended around 1833. Also even on the 20th century the English government oppressed the Irish a lot in their own country.
My Irish grandfather told us the difference when we were kids. He told us that they were indentured servants who got to go home once their debts were paid off, and enslaved Africans didn't owe anyone but were kidnapped, sold, and treated less than human by the kidnappers, abusers, tormentors.
The thing is many Irish were forced or tricked into contracts that were impossible to pay off or would take their whole lives to pay off. That is slavery. Did your grandfather also tell you about how we were considered white n words?
Bruh I’m Irish Scottish living in the uk and the REAL Irish don’t blame America but think if it’s being taught African American history then they should teach Irish slave history as well
@@TheKrispyfort , for a few reasons. I’ll say that one of’em is that they’re narcissistic psychopaths. They look up to and honor a lot of white, racist, enslaving, murderous, child-raping, genocidaires. It’s more difficult for them to justify that if they have to admit just how evil and wicked those people actually were. And while I doubt that they wish to reverse time to a pre-industrial, plantation state, they definitely regret the loss of control over us and they definitely wish to return to a condition where they hold unquestioned authority at least at the level they did during jim crow apartheid. We see that almost on a daily basis with new video after new video where they’re demanding a Black Person prove to them that they belong somewhere the white racist thinks they don’t. We see it every time a cop or a white vigilante murders a Black Person and hordes of white racists not only justify it, but celebrate it.
I’d say this video is doing that exact thing about indentured servitude and the Irish experience of British colonial racism; “No dogs, no blacks, no Irish”? The only people who racially weaponise Irish slavery are 4th/5th+ generation “Irish American” neo-Nazis with no idea that’s it is as much a form of paddywhackery as it is a racist trope. True Irish don’t get on like that.
As an Irish American, it's always wild to me how "The Irish were slaves," and "The Irish were descriminated against!" always leads to some racist shit but it always does. Usually from people who don't actually know any Irish history or the history of Irish in America.
Having an AI read this is about the level of involvement this discourse deserves at this point. It's a fact the the Irish were treated like second class citizens, but Black slaves weren't even treated like PEOPLE and anyone who wants to equate the two is being dishonest or is terribly misinformed... And there's not much excuse for an adult to be so misinformed in this day and age.
@@wethepplwhorblackerthanblu6442 id love to agree and say we don't "get our asses kicked" but unfortunately there are still people who are very hateful towards us. nowhere near as horrid as the racism others face from horrible people who need to shut up but it does exist and instead of going " f these people we have it worse!" we should all be willing to be kind and accepting to each other. i remember going to wales as a child and being called an irish whore, a white n word (i don't even believe i have the right to type that hateful word despite being called it, its disgusting) told to f off back home, told to leave a place cause i "am clearly just there to steal" and the police would be called on me if i "didn't just f off" guess how old i was when all this happened. ten...i was ten years old. other times in london as an adult i get people throwing slurs at me, threatening me, making me feel unsafe. i once got surrounded by a group of men yelling at me to get out of their country. we do indeed face discrimination and its not cool. its never cool, it should never be allowed, ever
People could have used this conversation to talk about how Capitalism will find as many ways as possible to exploit an "other," population. Be it through chattel slavery, indentured servitude, wage slavery, human trafficking, grifting, and all other manners of the projection of private economic power. But instead of having working class solidarity and having awareness for how white people used race to create deeper class divisions, they want to use it to basically negate the entire issue itself. Almost like they fell for the bait used to justify and further said racial divisions through class in the first place.
The wealthy use race to keep the workers divided and focused on each other instead of the real problem. The 1% use race the way rodeos use clowns. The bull is angry, but instead of chasing the rider, they get distracted by the clown while the rider escapes, and the bull thinks the clown is the problem.
There will always be some corruption with capitalism but capitalism itself isn’t unethical or corrupt. Socialism usually ends up in allot of people starving to death.
@@Bill_Cypher69Is there another group of people besides white people that benefit from white supremacy? It really doesn't take that long to think before you type you know.
@@UniDocs_Mahapushpa_Cyavana Or the fact that a lot of people are in Hyde denial of such facts when in general any type of research are just talking to people on the other side of the Irish aisle is all that is needed
@@UniDocs_Mahapushpa_Cyavana Because the people who feel some type of way about what was being said don't want to talk about THAT, so they attack his appearance in the video. Typical deflection by people who can't handle the truth.
THIS! Thank you for creating this short, Prof.! I'm from County Wexford in the south east of Ireland. The amount of times I have had to debunk the Irish slave myth meme is unreal! It's absolutely everywhere online and for every person who sees these facts stated, there are so many more who either choose to believe the myth despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary (because: racism) or who don't take genuine info on board because it's not in easily digestible chunks that ally with their cognitive biases. It's infuriating and makes me so angry that it's trying to make my culture further complicit in the obfuscation and denial of the horrors of the Transatlantic Slave Trade. The Irish diaspora in the U.S. and other colonised countries already have a history of aiding and abetting systemic racism for their own social advantage. Unless we Know Our History, we will never Know Who We Are. This ignorance perpetuates racist and xenophobic mindsets in the present and into the future.
It's hard to find objective sources. However, certainly we are told about there being slaves in tye UK in 1066, whoever those people were and however they were treated. Heard about indentured servants who certainly weren't slaves but probably weren't treated well compared to free people.
Alright, but are you sure you want to listen to a guy who's doing nothing more than standing there making smug / bland reactions to a video that isn't his own, a video that's nothing more than an AI voice quoting a Wikipedia page, and he's offering absolutely no commentary, personal opinion, or critical thinking to the subject whatsoever?
What I struggle with is the need some people have to retrospectively alter history to fit a current narrative. The past is fascinating even when it is horrifying and understanding it is important. There is a story to be told about the way in which the British elite used,abused and exploited the poor and powerless of the British Isles - not just the Irish, lot of poor English people found their way into the transport ships for what today would be seen as minor offences. children even - twelve and thirteen year olds, packed off away from all they had known and not allowed back for 12 years or more It's a story worth telling - they are just as voiceless to us as any other marginalized and abused group. BUT it is not the same story as that of the enslaved African people. Indenture allowed an awful lot of power and control over someone but it was not absolute, it didn't render the person into chattel and it was for a fixed number of years. In terms of day to day treatment the rights the master had over their indentured servant weren't that much more than the rights a master craftsman had over his apprentice. The primary sources for the time were very clear in the picture they painted of what constituted a slave - skin colour and race were absolutely, explicitly encoded into the European and American system of slavery - becoming even more so as the Peculiar Institution developed in the ante-bellum South We do a disservice to both the victims of the slave trade and the victims of class injustice by muddling up two very different and distinct experiences.
There’s also just the nuance in the definitions between “servant” and “slave”. Slaves are taken against their will, they’re subhuman and treated as such, and are stuck like that forever unless someone intervenes for their freedom. Being a servant is done willingly for a short time for indentured servants they didn’t usually work longer than a decade all with a 📢CONTRACT, LEGAL PROTECTIONS, RECOGNIZED RIGHTS, MEALS, HOUSING, FAMILY ACCOMMODATIONS, AND A REWARD (your own piece of land)📢
Idk much about the history of the Irish. My ancestors were Irish but I ain't really know much about them. The only "fun fact" I have about my precursor is that whichever great grandma it was that first came over actually had a ticket for the Titanic but had to delay her trip for whatever reason. She ended up coming to America about 8 years after that but really dodged a bullet with that one as nearly all the Irish perished do to their lessened social status. The Irish were 3rd rate citizens and given lesser priority over other people but they were NOT slaves and comparing their struggles to those that were enslaved through the trans-Atlantic slave trade is asinine. Don't get me wrong, indentured servitude is awful and the Irish and MANY other peoples throughout history have been enslaved or treated as inferior, but even still, chattel slavery is ONE of the singular worst things that has ever happened to a group of people in history. Few things compare. The Holocaust is often "compared" to chattel slavery in regards to its horrificness. And yes, the Holocaust was truly one of the worst events in human history. Through death camps and "Aryan" crusading, it claimed around 11 million people over the course of WW2 (Mainly Jews but also, gay people, African migrants to Europe, and other Europeans not considered Aryan or "honorary Aryan" a.k.a. Italians, Chinese, and Japanese). Chattel slavery, over the course of around 400 years, claimed that and many, MANY more. Google seems to be indecisive on the toll but from what I can tell, the most agreed upon range seems to be 50-65 million... And that's being conservative. Europe and America went so hard into slavery that during that period, the population of Africa stagnated. And even IF the Irish had been enslaved at some point, that has nothing to do with America and its enslavement of African peoples. Once the Irish came to America, it wasn't too long before their lessened status was shed for the purposes of those in power because they needed more people to consider as white. It's happened many times. It happened with the Germans, Italians, and pretty much every Euro-centric people that Americans considered lesser until the white hegemonic status was threatened. White immigrants would shed their status as Greek, Irish, Porteguese, etc.. and become white for the purposes of census and hegemony. Again, humanity has a LONG history of supressing peoples that they consider inferior but 400 years of exporting PEOPLE from their home country to force them into soul crushing and lethal slave labor, among other unsavory practices, for the the rests of their lives is truly one of the darkest chapters in human history... And it was done so that rich white people could turn a profit. Capitalism: Ruining lives since the dawn of time. Welcome to America.
Only thing I’d like to add/interject is that some of these people don’t practice true capitalism when they discriminate. Imagine the billions/trillions lost from not allowing business and trade because of skin color!
The question that needs to be answered is; if the Irish was slaves, then who enslaved them.... We're not just talking about the atrocities that was put upon black people during chattle slavery in the US, we're also talking about who perpetrated and profited off of those atrocities
The black people who were brought over to America were captured and enslaved by other black people in Africa. The funny thing is, even more African slaves were taken to Arab countries in the Middle East, but since most of those men were castrated, they didn't produce enough offspring to demand reparations centuries later. But there's no reason to mention that, after all, even though the Irish were oppressed and sometimes starved for over 800 years, they still get a sunburn, therefore that puts them in the same category as every other "white" European colonizer, right? History has been brutal to every race/ethnic group at some point in time. Read some actual history. Learn about the mountains of skulls under Genghis Khan's rule, the destruction brought upon other people by Persian Empire, or even Chairman Mao and the millions of Asians who starved to death under his leadership. Not every evil done in the world was perpetuated by so-called "white people". Life is tough; the world is unfair; get a fucking helmet.
the british. king james the 3 ordered that all irish shall be relocated to the west of the irish isle, any who refused were to be executed or taken to the americas. does that sound like a willing servant to you? saying that irish people were slaved doesnt diminish what was done to africans. but its gross and plainly wrong to ignore one atrocity so as to highlight another.
the british. king james the 3 ordered that all irish shall be relocated to the west of the irish isle, any who refused were to be executed or taken to the americas. does that sound like a willing servant to you? saying that irish people were slaved doesnt diminish what was done to africans. but its gross and plainly wrong to ignore one atrocity so as to highlight another
I’m from Virginia. I first heard the “Irish were slaves” narrative in the 1980’s. I was also taught the kind caring master myth in school. It’s pretty messed up the way even the yankee south distorts history.
You don't think that Irish people could have been slaves too? And you don't think it's possible that there were kind slave owners? Because Point A: Every race has been enslaved multiple times, in multiple different ways, worldwide throughout history. And Point B: It says in the bible that if you have servants, you're supposed to treat them with respect and allow them to marry your daughter or become part of your family in some other way after a certain amount of time, and you're supposed to allow them to find their own home after you let them go once they've served you long enough. My point by saying this is, since this was the south, they read the bible a LOT, and I'm sure there were at least a few slave owners who were good Christians and did all that it says in the bible with their slaves. I'm not saying it was like that for everyone of course, but take it into consideration at least.
Yeah. True. An indentured slave was often worked to death before their contract was up. If you knew you had 7 years on your “indentured servant” you don’t need to care for or feed them so well to get the most out of them. A black slave that you could own for life you took better care of because you don’t want to go buy a new one. It was easier though for white indentured servants to escape because they are white. It wasn’t easy though by any means. Another thing worth considering is most Irish people didn’t speak or write English language. They had their own language. Often when they signed papers to go to the new world…they didn’t know what they signed up for and we’re lied to. 😄 Some though we’re political prisoners, branded with a mark showing what boat they came to the US on. And then used as slaves. Not indentured servants. This was back when the US was British owned and controlled. Not the United States that existed after the revolutionary war.
Americans have a very weird relationship with work and work type relationships. I remember I was around my white sorority sisters and my black sorority sister said that in her home country they had working girls or maids in her home. In other countries it’s not uncommon for someone to come into your home to clean it or to have cooks and nannies. You’d have thought she said that she was related to Elon Musk the way they lost their everlasting minds. They said “Oh my God, YOU HAD A MAID?!” She looked at them like…”I mean yeah we had a few of them.” Maids, butlers, nannies, and any kind of “hired help“ here in America is a sign of stature and wealth. But because white Americans have their independent, bootstrap mentality that they see anyone that can hire people to do work for them as “better than” and anyone who does the labor as “less than”. So I feel like the whole Irish slave myth also comes from the fact that they were most likely doing work that white Americans didn’t want to do and thus, white Americans today say “they were slaves”. As if slavery is just doing unfavorable work. Because as soon as people get them some money all of a sudden they start hiring “the help” and it’s like they HAVE to degrade them as part of the job. They HAVE to let them know their place and they can’t just let them do their jobs without letting them know, “you are beneath me”. I truly believe that the supreme racist mindsets of ancestors telling their children, grandchildren, etc of how wonderful it used to be to have slaves dress you, cook for you, clean for you etc angers people walking around today. Because they never got to experience the benefits of slavery and instead have to make room for these people…as people…
the british. king james the 3 ordered that all irish shall be relocated to the west of the irish isle, any who refused were to be executed or taken to the americas. does that sound like a willing servant to you? saying that irish people were slaved doesnt diminish what was done to africans. but its gross and plainly wrong to ignore one atrocity so as to highlight another
Most Irish people didn’t read English. They had a different language. Many didn’t know what they signed until they ended up in the US. Lol Often the slaves were worked to death before their contract was up. If you knew you only had 7 years on your slave you might as well not feed them well and work them harder then a slave you could keep for a lifetime.
My daughter (white) keeps having this come up with her (mostly black and Hispanic) SPED students. At the end, the discussion tends to get ended as quickly as possible with "Some INDIVIDUAL Irish people were enslaved (as a human right), but the Irish *were not an enslaved people*, and this is particularly relevant with regards to American history. There is NO similarity." It's not perfect, but it seems to be the quickest, easiest way to diffuse the Andrew Tate & Co. inspired arguments. (The funny part is that according to 23 and Me....she's something like 83% Irish descent. Who knew? No, really....her grandmother grew up in an orphanage.....we legit didn't know.)
Firstly, all races have been enslaved throughout history, especially in the modern era via human trafficking (which is never talked about because human trafficking is so all-over-the-place) Secondly, why exactly did you feel the need to list off your daughter and her friends' races and mental capacities? Does that not seem discriminatory in any way to only use those particular adjectives to describe them? More importantly, why are those things important in any way to this discussion?
@@Bill_Cypher69 her *STUDENTS* not her "friends." I mentioned it because it's *relevant* - because she's a TEACHER who is RESPONSIBLE for having these discussions with CHILDREN who are not the same race as herself and often say things TO HER that they see on RUclips that they do not UNDERSTAND because she's WHITE and potentially the only (red haired) WHITE person they KNOW.
Up until the late 19th century most Irish farmers did not own the land they worked but worked it for an elite class of landowners mainly Anglo Irish aristocracy who were well known for usually ill treating their tenants who subdivided land equally among their sons which resulted in plot sizes shrinking and fewer yields and a dependancy on the Potato to survive (though there were middle class and yeoman farmers but they were rare) it turned into a disaster an gorta mór demographically (Population decreased significantly and has never recovered), culturally (Irish speakers being badly affected) and socially (emigration that has only stopped for brief pauses). Think of it being like share cropping in the USA in how exploitive it was. Indentured servitude is now classed as a form of slavery (being close to Biblical slavery) as you are not paying for a set number of years a wage except bed and board and it was exploitive but not as exploitive that was the horror of the Atlantic Slave Trade.
I was born in Glasgow, Scotland where there's a lot of bigotry between Irish descent and British identified people. Irish were in effect banned from getting certain jobs, like years ago however, they were not enslaved. They were enslaved in the 9-11centuries by the Vikings, not recently though
Yep and we assimilated very much on purpose. Irish ex-coal miner family- it's very weird for us to say that because some other group of people has it worse, that that somehow cancels out what we've experienced? That's only something you'd think about someone if you didn't see them as part of your community.
Going from Oakland Ca and now living and raising kids in Washington State, i now have the urge to slap CauCousins because ive heard "well every race practiced slavery at one point in time " way way too many times from these people 😡🤬🤬
So let me get this straight, you can't handle the obvious truth that throughout history, every single race has enslaved and been enslaved, in some way, shape, or form. And so your response to that is to be racist towards the people telling you this because they happen to be white? "I now have the urge to slap Caucasians-" gonna stop you there, 9 months after you posted this and you still don't see how racist that is? Imagine if a white person was angry at a person of color for something they kept saying that made them angry and went online saying "I now have the urge to slap everyone of this race that I see!"
Well it’s true. Native Americans had white slaves. Irish slaves. French slaves. Blacks also had slaves from rival tribes in Africa. The British royal family made allot of money shipping slaves to the US. There is still slavery happening today in various parts of the world. It doesn’t minimize or justify slavery in the US that black slaves faced for a period of time. It’s just the truth. Of course, people who want reparations will minimize all other forms of slavery on the planet to get their money. Because everyone wants money.
the very fact that people argue about this is very disturbing, while we can all agree (I hope) that Africans had it much much worse, the Irish too were oppressed, and in fact were also slaves, most definitely not to the same extent, but this wasn't anything voluntary. the genocide in the 1840s didn't help either. suffering is suffering and it's horrific for anyone or group who has to endure it. but being divided with who were hurt more or less than others puts two oppressed peoples against one another, which is exactly what the ruling class like. with unity and solidarity we can see the real enemy of everyone
You fundamentally misunderstand what this post is about if you think it's an oppression contest. The original claim was two-fold. 1. That the Irish were "slaves," too. They were not chattel slaves and even Irish scholars debunk that myth. Not all forced servitude is chattel slavery. That myth was manufactured by white supremacists and that's why Irish scholars quickly sought to debunk it. 2. That due to their own oppression, the Irish should be absolved of their participation in the chattel slavery of abducted Africans in the Triangle Trade. No. There's more nuance involved than what you propose. Otherwise, I wouldn't have to address these racist myths in the first place designed to undermine Black people's pursuit of liberty and equity.
Those Irish slaves where the black celts that were sent here and many ended up in Jamaica. They took blacks from Europe, the Americas, West Indies and East Indies. Only 4% of African slaves came to North America from West Africa, so the majority of blacks ain't really African. Everything we were pretty much told was a lie and I learned this by digging through history. There are even slaves records of Jacobites who were black Britons and many where nobles and Monarchs. Even King James the 6th who translated the bible, believe it or not he was sent here when they kicked him off the thrown. ruclips.net/video/Bm5QP0e73eA/видео.htmlsi=EPEcWhGwnIG9oHFI
What I love about your content is that it arms me with the vocabulary to argue against myths like this. Your explanation on the difference between punitive slavery and hereditary chattel is something I understood, but your succinctness gave me more clarity. Thank you.
I’m Irish, Scottish and American Indian. My Irish family kept journals. They were not servants. They were captains, soldiers, etc. They warred with the tribes and enslaved the Indians they captured. Then some of them turned around and claimed to be Native American and were listed as Indian by blood by the BIA. Indentured servitude wasn’t pretty, but it doesn’t compare to chattel slavery in the slightest.
Your argument is invalid because that's only your family being mentioned, not Ireland and its people as a whole, and not whatever minority (or majority) of Irish people who were enslaved. Also nobody with common sense has any reason to believe that what you're saying is even true unless you provide hard evidence or physical proof that anything you said is real, that's a fact.
As a man who is half Irish, from Cork, THANK YOU! Specifically for the mentioning of the forced migration and indentured servitude of the Penal Laws. This is a point that is often either faslely conflated as the clip states or seems oddly absent. For the record the Irish were not slaves, and not treated to the same as chattal slaves. We had our own oppression to deal with, but the way in which bad faith arguments are made to leverage that struggle to invalidate the very real struggle of others is infuriating. We should be standing in solidarity! Thank you again.
Irish people didn’t speak English. They spoke a different language back then. The Welsh. Also have their own language. Even to this day. So often when people signed contracts they didn’t know what they signed and were fooled into it. They found out when they got off the boat. Hahaha That doesn’t include the Irish political prisoners that were branded with the symbol of the boat they were sent over on. The British were making allot of money in the black slave trade at that point but also getting rid of their political problems in Scotland, Ireland and Wales. Kind of like how they sent people to Australia but different of course.
In America especially, education around the horrific reality of chattel slavery has been lacking - and this is absolutely purposeful. When the crimes of a system are minimized and ignored, when the system of power is itself the water we swim in, and teaching that air exists above water becomes forbidden and punishable, of course contextualized history becomes confusing and strange to hear, allowing myths and hatred to perpetuate themselves.
There were a lot of my ancestors that were indentured slaves, but they were able to work to get freedom. There were also criminals that they sent over here as slaves, and the only reason i know that is because my own genealogy. Some of them was crazzzyy
Wrong the First slaves were Irish the word slave come from here Etymology. From Middle English sclave, from Old French sclave, from Medieval Latin sclāvus (“slave”), from Late Latin Sclāvus (“Slav”), because Slavs were often forced into slavery in the Middle Ages. The Latin word is from Byzantine Greek Σκλάβος (Sklábos), see that entry and Slav for more. So yep I just prove u wrong 😂😂😂
I never knew watching someone calmly eating a bowl of cereal could be so doggone funny! I literally laughed at your unbotherdness and the thorough and literal READING you gave the commenter.
I can’t help but notice the orientation of that “peace” sign. Is that a subtle middle finger to England for mistreating the Irish even as you’re acknowledging and remind us of how chattel slavery was much, much worse than Irish indentured servitude? Like “we had it worse, but we still see you, friends”?
Indentured servitude is a form of slavery and very much immoral and illegal... however, that the two things are any way similar is like comparing the holocaust to a stubbbed toe
I that's peace sign in USA, and I don't know if it was intentional given we're talking about Ireland, par o UK, but it went very well with "have a nice day" as a flip off at the end.
Spot on. It's hard to have honest conversations about these things in the public square because one side acknowledges nuance while the other tends to try to generalize and paint in broad strokes.
This is completely silly and off topic but, I can't get passed what Sunn was eating😂 At first I thought it was corn but when it crunched, I thought maybe it was cereal. I'm guessing Kix?😉🤷🏾♀️ Now, I want a bowl of Kix😋
Even if it was true the being happy that “they don’t complain” is concerning. Why are we promoting people being quiet and not complaining about oppression? 🤔 Also thanks for this enlightening video. 😊
If "I'll-Let-Them-Tell-You-Themselves" was a person.....So glad to see this debunked and a an additional nod toward understanding the difference between chattel slavery (particularly vicious, violent, savage, and merciless) and other forms of slavery. I also appreciate the fact that they addressed this entire rumor as being started in the 1990s as a means of minimizing the experience of Black slaves and, thus, seeking to discredit Black people today who live with and have endured various forms of racial bigotry that exist and are systemic in this country.
Tell that to my forefathers, that became "Indentured" workers when they were forced off their own farmland and sent in Chains to America to build colonies. It was Not a "Choice" for them. When they still had their land, If they were to eat anything grown on it, Or if they caught a fish in a stream on their own land, They would be put to death, By being "Drawn and Quartered" Their only "Choice" was Death, Debtors prison for not paying the Crowns Taxes on their land. Or Indentured Slavery. Truth is Truth. You cannot change it or hide it. It will always prevail.
The Irish didn’t mind heaping violence on Black Americans, either, especially when they hired Black Americans during strikes and during the draft in the Civil War. They did the same in California to the Chinese.
Um, no. Your argument is a weak attempt to conflate indentured servitude with chattel slavery. It's literally Irish scholars who are debunking the Irish slave myth. Relax.
@@sunnmcheaux I think you misunderstood my comment, it's called being sarcastic or facetious look up the word. I'ma proud black American and more militant than most I don't tap dance
I'm not Irish but my family did come here as indentured servants a very long time ago and yes we were treated as slaves the difference is we were not legally considered livestock there's other differences as well Offspring were not automatically considered slaves in the case of my family but they did take time away from work that we were supposed to be doing in order to pay off our Voyage here very easy to get the facts misconstrued as always I appreciate your content
@@Miss-Ann-Thrope the british. king james the 3 ordered that all irish shall be relocated to the west of the irish isle, any who refused were to be executed or taken to the americas. does that sound like a willing servant to you? saying that irish people were slaved doesnt diminish what was done to africans. but its gross and plainly wrong to ignore one atrocity so as to highlight another
@@RUARI-mi1ytThe person I responded to said, "I'm not Irish, but my family did come here as indentured servants...." Since you jumped in, the Irish enslaved Africans as well. Many Black Caribbean and Black Americans have Irish DNA. When have you seen European slaveholders (and their American descendants) list Irish slaves amongst their property? List sources that show plantations full of enslaved Irish and their following generations born into slavery and the slave codes used against them. Also, cite sources that show how Irish slavery has developed into systemic racism or classism today.
You spelled Caucasian wrong, also are you seriously denying the legitimacy of the Hebrews undergoing brutal, non-stop slavery by the Egyptians for hundreds of years just because white people are talking about it and just because it was mentioned in the bible?
They bet on people not knowing history. Their experiences as indentured servants who had to pay off a debt/ and or they committed a crime so they were sent to the US. Is vastly different, from what they Love to compare it to.. betting on people to not know enough and feel bad. I don’t..especially with some some of them act- I grew up in Boston. Some are sweet and the rest act like they weren’t considered lower than dogs to “yt” ppl at some point.. it’s laughable
Ye of course you americans believe whatever the media throws at ye. The irish were invaded back all the way in 1100 AD and were esnalved/raped. Ahere do you think the great famine came from? Where the british burned out all the crops and didnt feed the irish, why do you think the irish speak english? My great grandfather was pulled out forcefully by the british to die in a trench. Anyone like you who tries telling me my history is different or wasnt as bad? Please the irish went through 700 more years of it and at least the blackslaves were granted freedom eventually or if they served in militia, the irish were forced to work and starbed while doing so with women and children raped and killed and men worked til death.
Would you stop blaming all Irish or white people for something that only a small minority are pushing? Nobody is trying to quell the experiences of African slaves, that's only the racist people who are trying to sabotage the whole thing by saying that "Irish slaves had it worse". Irish slavery was a very real thing, same with how all peoples globally and throughout history have enslaved and been enslaved, does that mean it was as bad as African-American or African slavery? Absolutely not. But to sit here and try and snuff out the experiences of Irish slaves makes you a blatant hypocrite, same with hundreds of others in the comments. So many of you are just cookie-cutting the same damn things, have an original thought for once, use critical thinking, think outside the box, compare and contrast, do more research than looking at the first two pages of google, etc.
That 3/5ths of a person was something abolitionists wanted. Mostly because the southern slave democrats wanted to count their slaves towards the census. That would give the Democrat slave owners of the south more power in selecting the president of the United States because it would give them more electoral votes. This was a compromise made until well…the civil war.
I don’t even know if we had a constitution when the Irish slaves were being used by the British colonizers. I would have to look. It was probably pre-revolutionary war.
Do you know anything about the serfdom slavery in the Eastern Europe? Several historians compare it with chattel slavery, it was abolished in 1860s in Russian Empire.
i find it really disturbing that people would dismiss an entire peoples experience as myth because they think it would diminish their, i don't know, claim to victimhood?? like why are you gatekeeping slavery? it is a matter of historical record that the Irish were sold into slavery. if it makes you feel better to call them "indentured servants" fine. but taking kids from their parents, putting them on a ship and selling them to other people for 200 pounds of cotton sure sounds like slavery to me. I'm just confused why or how saying the Irish were slaves has any effect on the also very true and bad fact that Africans were also slaves. this should be something to unite over. slavery is bad. so is covering it up for political gain.
I hate this myth I am Irish and I pains me to see people using me as a example for something so racist toward black people they were not slaves they where servants if at that love this guy
I am an American Indian, as defined by Degree of Indian Blood Quantum, which would be considered Indigenous, and Indian Freedmen Status, which would be considered Afro-Indigenous. I am also considered 1/16 Black non-Indigenous. I also have a degree of non Indian blood. The first White man in America of my blood was from England and was an indentured person and tobacco field laborer from the foundational era of John Smith's Jamestown. I'm also the descendant of tobacco & fur traders of both an Indigenous background from within Northern Scandinavia, as well as from the Nordic countries. They were all indentured people as well. Also of an Irish Catholic family which arrived in a set of four generations all at once in 1678, the elders of whom were indentured laborers in Virginia plantations. Point being, 1) Indentured people were more than just Irish, they were from many places: also English, Swedish, and assimilated Native people from Scandinavia. 2) Slavery in the White world is incomparable to Afro Indigenous status in the Indian world. 3) indentured status among Europeans in the White world wasn't transferable over the context of multiple generations.
One of the purposes of enslaving Africans was so they could couldn't walk away and just blend in. Another was KSAs that wipipo from Europe didn't have but needed to cultivate their plantation crops! You know _ knowledge, skills and abilities they already had, not learned as slaves in 'Murica!🤨🙄
They say this so loud and proud while being completely ignorant. Even if the Irish were slaves if they sit silently while we reject oppression that still doesn’t make us wrong! Why do they use shaming tactics to try to silence us just like a grapist would his victims?
I can say with 1 million percent certainty that Irish people don't care about the slave history of Irish people or indentured servitude. Ireland has fought the British for over 800 years, the IRA are still a thing, it's not about slavery, no but we are focused on standing up against tyranny
There certainly were (white) slaves in the UK during medieval times but it's unclear who they were or whether their descendants survive. This doesn't erase the transatlantic skave trade or the well documented atrocities or the history of the subsequent civil rights struggles African-Americans have experienced.
the british. king james the 3 ordered that all irish shall be relocated to the west of the irish isle, any who refused were to be executed or taken to the americas. does that sound like a willing servant to you? saying that irish people were slaved doesnt diminish what was done to africans. but its gross and plainly wrong to ignore one atrocity so as to highlight another
Slaves do not have contracts determining the length of their slavery and the length of service before they are free from their contracts . Indentured servants were not slaves by the very definition of what indentured servitude is.
In spite of Sunn letting the words narrate the "Irish slave myth", I heard only his voice as the text appeared, with intonation and all... Sunn's voice reigns, even when he does not speak.❤
I have my ever so great grandfather's diary. He was transported from Dublin to the colonies in 1738 at 16 years of age as an indentured servant by the British as his father was a rabblerouser. While the things he writes about shows his life was not easy, he was NOT a slave. Was he ""owned.?" No. He had a contract he could try to "pay off." He escaped his servitude and fled to what is now west Virginia once he realized he would never be able to "pay off" his contract. He spent his life preaching against slavery and indentured servitude. He packed his family up and fled west to what is now Illinois in the late 1770's after serving in the revolutionary war. He stated he left because "they wouldn't free the slaves."
He writes eloquently that he was not a slave and of his hatred for anyone who would enslave another. So no, Irish were not slaves, unless maybe you go back to Viking days.
your great grandfather sounds, well, great :D
Interesting you should bring up the Viking days. I've done some research into that period, and it seems that while they did have slaves, and even enslaved each other, it wasn't as bad as the US slavery.
Of course, it's a long time period and a few different countries, but there are reports of slaves buying their own freedom. This suggests it was closer to indentured servants.
Seems like the enslavement of black people by white people was likely the worst kind of slavery in history, although I'm not an expert on it.
Thank you for sharing.
@@Nerobyrne Enslaved Africans were believed to be closer to animals than humans, and people of the time tried to use science to prove this. Slavery prior to this didn't usually involve the societal belief that a slave was no longer human, just that they had fallen down the social structure to the level of slave. They could still be treated absolutely horribly, but they didn't stop being human.
@@TURQUOISEEYES Ok random internet WS apologist. We believe you, millions of OTHERS wouldn't, but we believe you. read that with an obvious eye roll
The way I’ve always looked at it is like this: some bad things happened to my family because we were Irish. The thing is, when we came to the US, we had the privilege to just stop being Irish if we pleased. I don’t know if a single place in the US where Black people were just allowed to stop being Black, to disconnect from the painful things that happened to their families because they were African. What happened to my family was bad, and I’m mad about it, but I’m allowed to just unplug from it and walk away, especially here in the 21st century. The problems that came from my family being uprooted and robbed were minimal compared to the problems faced by people whose families were stolen and enslaved for generations. They’re simply not comparable.
Didint they have signs that said “no blacks no Irish and no dogs” Irish where not slaves by all means but people hated them not shore why
@@snailproductions8437 probably because of their Catholic religion. They weren't old money.
Funny thing because the first slave owner in America was a black man, which is proof that they were free black men part of the upper class who infact had white slaves prior to buying black slaves. But real history conveniently stopped being taught for modern times because it would hurt the black identity. Blacks were not the only slaves and they certainly were not the slaves who mined and built the railrows and infrastructure
@@snailproductions8437Because of their beliefs ,religion..not skin,appearance..
@@snailproductions8437 Actually the king of England created a law that said that an english man could kill or rape any person in Ireland without having to suffer legal repercussions around 20 years before the atlantic slave trade that ended around 1833. Also even on the 20th century the English government oppressed the Irish a lot in their own country.
My Irish grandfather told us the difference when we were kids. He told us that they were indentured servants who got to go home once their debts were paid off, and enslaved Africans didn't owe anyone but were kidnapped, sold, and treated less than human by the kidnappers, abusers, tormentors.
The thing is many Irish were forced or tricked into contracts that were impossible to pay off or would take their whole lives to pay off. That is slavery. Did your grandfather also tell you about how we were considered white n words?
"This group was ALSO mistreated, therefor your mistreatment doesn't matter" isn't exactly the strongest argument in the first place XD
If they're so bent out of shape over "Irish slavery," you'd think they'd hash it out with the BRITISH.
wasnt just british that did it to us though. we have a long and varied history.
Well put
...The British established America....the Boston tea party...?
Bruh I’m Irish Scottish living in the uk and the REAL Irish don’t blame America but think if it’s being taught African American history then they should teach Irish slave history as well
No they to busy trying to tell BA that they were not the only one like there is some sort of competition
Slavery and chattel slavery are two different things. But they don’t wanna talk about that either.
Yes AND the Irish experience neither
Indentured servitude isn't even slavery.
@@TURQUOISEEYES 🥱
@@TURQUOISEEYES your lies are boring…take care
@@TURQUOISEEYES 🥱😂😂
They’re forever trying to convince us that chattel slavery wasn’t that bad.
That part That right there is THEE whole thing I will always keep saying 🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯👏🏿👏🏿
Why?
Are they hoping it will come back into fashion?
@@TheKrispyfort , for a few reasons. I’ll say that one of’em is that they’re narcissistic psychopaths. They look up to and honor a lot of white, racist, enslaving, murderous, child-raping, genocidaires. It’s more difficult for them to justify that if they have to admit just how evil and wicked those people actually were. And while I doubt that they wish to reverse time to a pre-industrial, plantation state, they definitely regret the loss of control over us and they definitely wish to return to a condition where they hold unquestioned authority at least at the level they did during jim crow apartheid. We see that almost on a daily basis with new video after new video where they’re demanding a Black Person prove to them that they belong somewhere the white racist thinks they don’t. We see it every time a cop or a white vigilante murders a Black Person and hordes of white racists not only justify it, but celebrate it.
I’d say this video is doing that exact thing about indentured servitude and the Irish experience of British colonial racism; “No dogs, no blacks, no Irish”?
The only people who racially weaponise Irish slavery are 4th/5th+ generation “Irish American” neo-Nazis with no idea that’s it is as much a form of paddywhackery as it is a racist trope. True Irish don’t get on like that.
No, the point here is that it wasn't like enslavement of black people because the irish were considered human, but Africans were treated as animals.
As an Irish American, it's always wild to me how "The Irish were slaves," and "The Irish were descriminated against!" always leads to some racist shit but it always does. Usually from people who don't actually know any Irish history or the history of Irish in America.
The Irish raids and captured and enslaved the English and Scottish and Welsh
Slaves and indentured servant‘s are two different things ‼️🙄
If you could please say that a little louder for the pale pple in the back?
Why is it different?
This is FALSE "contracts" were always renewed without the worker's will.
exactly...
Indentured servants can buy their freedom after so many years (I think it was 7). And then they could blend in with society. While slaves couldn't.
Having an AI read this is about the level of involvement this discourse deserves at this point. It's a fact the the Irish were treated like second class citizens, but Black slaves weren't even treated like PEOPLE and anyone who wants to equate the two is being dishonest or is terribly misinformed... And there's not much excuse for an adult to be so misinformed in this day and age.
Indentured servitude and chattel slavery are different things. 🤦🏾♀️
Indentured servitude is NOT the same as generational chattel slavery. End of story.
Yeah they really did not get their asses kicked like the way we did and not there are not getting their asses kicked like the way we are right now
@@wethepplwhorblackerthanblu6442 id love to agree and say we don't "get our asses kicked" but unfortunately there are still people who are very hateful towards us. nowhere near as horrid as the racism others face from horrible people who need to shut up but it does exist and instead of going " f these people we have it worse!" we should all be willing to be kind and accepting to each other. i remember going to wales as a child and being called an irish whore, a white n word (i don't even believe i have the right to type that hateful word despite being called it, its disgusting) told to f off back home, told to leave a place cause i "am clearly just there to steal" and the police would be called on me if i "didn't just f off" guess how old i was when all this happened. ten...i was ten years old. other times in london as an adult i get people throwing slurs at me, threatening me, making me feel unsafe. i once got surrounded by a group of men yelling at me to get out of their country. we do indeed face discrimination and its not cool. its never cool, it should never be allowed, ever
People could have used this conversation to talk about how Capitalism will find as many ways as possible to exploit an "other," population. Be it through chattel slavery, indentured servitude, wage slavery, human trafficking, grifting, and all other manners of the projection of private economic power. But instead of having working class solidarity and having awareness for how white people used race to create deeper class divisions, they want to use it to basically negate the entire issue itself.
Almost like they fell for the bait used to justify and further said racial divisions through class in the first place.
The wealthy use race to keep the workers divided and focused on each other instead of the real problem.
The 1% use race the way rodeos use clowns. The bull is angry, but instead of chasing the rider, they get distracted by the clown while the rider escapes, and the bull thinks the clown is the problem.
Okay, those are all decent points (as far as I can immediately tell).. Until you started blaming white people for all of it, why did you do that?
There will always be some corruption with capitalism but capitalism itself isn’t unethical or corrupt. Socialism usually ends up in allot of people starving to death.
@@Bill_Cypher69because they ARE to blame
@@Bill_Cypher69Is there another group of people besides white people that benefit from white supremacy? It really doesn't take that long to think before you type you know.
Wow, watching this a yr later and seeing it only has 700 likes tells me alot about our culture in general.
I think it is because it looks like someone reacting to another video and thus the reaction is what is being judged.
@@UniDocs_Mahapushpa_Cyavana
Or the fact that a lot of people are in Hyde denial of such facts when in general any type of research are just talking to people on the other side of the Irish aisle is all that is needed
Dr. m'Cheaux channel has been very clearly been shadowbanned from YT.
@@UniDocs_Mahapushpa_Cyavana Because the people who feel some type of way about what was being said don't want to talk about THAT, so they attack his appearance in the video. Typical deflection by people who can't handle the truth.
THIS! Thank you for creating this short, Prof.! I'm from County Wexford in the south east of Ireland. The amount of times I have had to debunk the Irish slave myth meme is unreal! It's absolutely everywhere online and for every person who sees these facts stated, there are so many more who either choose to believe the myth despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary (because: racism) or who don't take genuine info on board because it's not in easily digestible chunks that ally with their cognitive biases. It's infuriating and makes me so angry that it's trying to make my culture further complicit in the obfuscation and denial of the horrors of the Transatlantic Slave Trade. The Irish diaspora in the U.S. and other colonised countries already have a history of aiding and abetting systemic racism for their own social advantage. Unless we Know Our History, we will never Know Who We Are. This ignorance perpetuates racist and xenophobic mindsets in the present and into the future.
Armagh here, most other irish people i know the difference. you see where im going with this
It's hard to find objective sources. However, certainly we are told about there being slaves in tye UK in 1066, whoever those people were and however they were treated. Heard about indentured servants who certainly weren't slaves but probably weren't treated well compared to free people.
"(because: racism)" 😏Too simple right?
Very well said!!❤👏🏿
Alright, but are you sure you want to listen to a guy who's doing nothing more than standing there making smug / bland reactions to a video that isn't his own, a video that's nothing more than an AI voice quoting a Wikipedia page, and he's offering absolutely no commentary, personal opinion, or critical thinking to the subject whatsoever?
What I struggle with is the need some people have to retrospectively alter history to fit a current narrative. The past is fascinating even when it is horrifying and understanding it is important. There is a story to be told about the way in which the British elite used,abused and exploited the poor and powerless of the British Isles - not just the Irish, lot of poor English people found their way into the transport ships for what today would be seen as minor offences. children even - twelve and thirteen year olds, packed off away from all they had known and not allowed back for 12 years or more
It's a story worth telling - they are just as voiceless to us as any other marginalized and abused group. BUT it is not the same story as that of the enslaved African people. Indenture allowed an awful lot of power and control over someone but it was not absolute, it didn't render the person into chattel and it was for a fixed number of years. In terms of day to day treatment the rights the master had over their indentured servant weren't that much more than the rights a master craftsman had over his apprentice.
The primary sources for the time were very clear in the picture they painted of what constituted a slave - skin colour and race were absolutely, explicitly encoded into the European and American system of slavery - becoming even more so as the Peculiar Institution developed in the ante-bellum South
We do a disservice to both the victims of the slave trade and the victims of class injustice by muddling up two very different and distinct experiences.
Very well said!!❤👏🏿
There’s also just the nuance in the definitions between “servant” and “slave”. Slaves are taken against their will, they’re subhuman and treated as such, and are stuck like that forever unless someone intervenes for their freedom. Being a servant is done willingly for a short time for indentured servants they didn’t usually work longer than a decade all with a 📢CONTRACT, LEGAL PROTECTIONS, RECOGNIZED RIGHTS, MEALS, HOUSING, FAMILY ACCOMMODATIONS, AND A REWARD (your own piece of land)📢
Exactly all facts ❤
Idk much about the history of the Irish. My ancestors were Irish but I ain't really know much about them. The only "fun fact" I have about my precursor is that whichever great grandma it was that first came over actually had a ticket for the Titanic but had to delay her trip for whatever reason. She ended up coming to America about 8 years after that but really dodged a bullet with that one as nearly all the Irish perished do to their lessened social status. The Irish were 3rd rate citizens and given lesser priority over other people but they were NOT slaves and comparing their struggles to those that were enslaved through the trans-Atlantic slave trade is asinine. Don't get me wrong, indentured servitude is awful and the Irish and MANY other peoples throughout history have been enslaved or treated as inferior, but even still, chattel slavery is ONE of the singular worst things that has ever happened to a group of people in history. Few things compare. The Holocaust is often "compared" to chattel slavery in regards to its horrificness. And yes, the Holocaust was truly one of the worst events in human history. Through death camps and "Aryan" crusading, it claimed around 11 million people over the course of WW2 (Mainly Jews but also, gay people, African migrants to Europe, and other Europeans not considered Aryan or "honorary Aryan" a.k.a. Italians, Chinese, and Japanese). Chattel slavery, over the course of around 400 years, claimed that and many, MANY more. Google seems to be indecisive on the toll but from what I can tell, the most agreed upon range seems to be 50-65 million... And that's being conservative. Europe and America went so hard into slavery that during that period, the population of Africa stagnated.
And even IF the Irish had been enslaved at some point, that has nothing to do with America and its enslavement of African peoples. Once the Irish came to America, it wasn't too long before their lessened status was shed for the purposes of those in power because they needed more people to consider as white. It's happened many times. It happened with the Germans, Italians, and pretty much every Euro-centric people that Americans considered lesser until the white hegemonic status was threatened. White immigrants would shed their status as Greek, Irish, Porteguese, etc.. and become white for the purposes of census and hegemony.
Again, humanity has a LONG history of supressing peoples that they consider inferior but 400 years of exporting PEOPLE from their home country to force them into soul crushing and lethal slave labor, among other unsavory practices, for the the rests of their lives is truly one of the darkest chapters in human history... And it was done so that rich white people could turn a profit. Capitalism: Ruining lives since the dawn of time. Welcome to America.
Due, not do
I want to like this over and over again.
Truth... thank you 🙌🏾
Dudette/Dude! That is a good read. Excellent!
Only thing I’d like to add/interject is that some of these people don’t practice true capitalism when they discriminate. Imagine the billions/trillions lost from not allowing business and trade because of skin color!
The question that needs to be answered is; if the Irish was slaves, then who enslaved them.... We're not just talking about the atrocities that was put upon black people during chattle slavery in the US, we're also talking about who perpetrated and profited off of those atrocities
The black people who were brought over to America were captured and enslaved by other black people in Africa. The funny thing is, even more African slaves were taken to Arab countries in the Middle East, but since most of those men were castrated, they didn't produce enough offspring to demand reparations centuries later. But there's no reason to mention that, after all, even though the Irish were oppressed and sometimes starved for over 800 years, they still get a sunburn, therefore that puts them in the same category as every other "white" European colonizer, right? History has been brutal to every race/ethnic group at some point in time. Read some actual history. Learn about the mountains of skulls under Genghis Khan's rule, the destruction brought upon other people by Persian Empire, or even Chairman Mao and the millions of Asians who starved to death under his leadership. Not every evil done in the world was perpetuated by so-called "white people". Life is tough; the world is unfair; get a fucking helmet.
British aristocrats
THIS! this is the biggest hole in the argument. If irish were slaves then who enslaved them?
It was other Europeans
the british. king james the 3 ordered that all irish shall be relocated to the west of the irish isle, any who refused were to be executed or taken to the americas. does that sound like a willing servant to you? saying that irish people were slaved doesnt diminish what was done to africans. but its gross and plainly wrong to ignore one atrocity so as to highlight another.
“O’Really” 🤭😂😂😂
the british. king james the 3 ordered that all irish shall be relocated to the west of the irish isle, any who refused were to be executed or taken to the americas. does that sound like a willing servant to you? saying that irish people were slaved doesnt diminish what was done to africans. but its gross and plainly wrong to ignore one atrocity so as to highlight another
I’m from Virginia. I first heard the “Irish were slaves” narrative in the 1980’s. I was also taught the kind caring master myth in school.
It’s pretty messed up the way even the yankee south distorts history.
You don't think that Irish people could have been slaves too? And you don't think it's possible that there were kind slave owners?
Because Point A: Every race has been enslaved multiple times, in multiple different ways, worldwide throughout history.
And Point B: It says in the bible that if you have servants, you're supposed to treat them with respect and allow them to marry your daughter or become part of your family in some other way after a certain amount of time, and you're supposed to allow them to find their own home after you let them go once they've served you long enough. My point by saying this is, since this was the south, they read the bible a LOT, and I'm sure there were at least a few slave owners who were good Christians and did all that it says in the bible with their slaves. I'm not saying it was like that for everyone of course, but take it into consideration at least.
Indentured servitude, slavery and chattle slavery are totally different.
Yeah. True. An indentured slave was often worked to death before their contract was up. If you knew you had 7 years on your “indentured servant” you don’t need to care for or feed them so well to get the most out of them. A black slave that you could own for life you took better care of because you don’t want to go buy a new one.
It was easier though for white indentured servants to escape because they are white. It wasn’t easy though by any means.
Another thing worth considering is most Irish people didn’t speak or write English language. They had their own language. Often when they signed papers to go to the new world…they didn’t know what they signed up for and we’re lied to. 😄
Some though we’re political prisoners, branded with a mark showing what boat they came to the US on. And then used as slaves. Not indentured servants.
This was back when the US was British owned and controlled. Not the United States that existed after the revolutionary war.
Americans have a very weird relationship with work and work type relationships. I remember I was around my white sorority sisters and my black sorority sister said that in her home country they had working girls or maids in her home. In other countries it’s not uncommon for someone to come into your home to clean it or to have cooks and nannies.
You’d have thought she said that she was related to Elon Musk the way they lost their everlasting minds. They said “Oh my God, YOU HAD A MAID?!” She looked at them like…”I mean yeah we had a few of them.” Maids, butlers, nannies, and any kind of “hired help“ here in America is a sign of stature and wealth. But because white Americans have their independent, bootstrap mentality that they see anyone that can hire people to do work for them as “better than” and anyone who does the labor as “less than”. So I feel like the whole Irish slave myth also comes from the fact that they were most likely doing work that white Americans didn’t want to do and thus, white Americans today say “they were slaves”.
As if slavery is just doing unfavorable work. Because as soon as people get them some money all of a sudden they start hiring “the help” and it’s like they HAVE to degrade them as part of the job. They HAVE to let them know their place and they can’t just let them do their jobs without letting them know, “you are beneath me”.
I truly believe that the supreme racist mindsets of ancestors telling their children, grandchildren, etc of how wonderful it used to be to have slaves dress you, cook for you, clean for you etc angers people walking around today. Because they never got to experience the benefits of slavery and instead have to make room for these people…as people…
Plenty of Americans hire housekeepers, gardeners & nannies- main diff is that they aren't typically living with them as they used to in the 1800s.
Anti slavery campaigners and organisations classify indentured servitude as a form of slavery but that is because it is open to abuse
Have you seen the movie "The help"?
I recommend it. And I feel like you'd appreciate it.
Indentured servants were never slaves. They were free to go.
the british. king james the 3 ordered that all irish shall be relocated to the west of the irish isle, any who refused were to be executed or taken to the americas. does that sound like a willing servant to you? saying that irish people were slaved doesnt diminish what was done to africans. but its gross and plainly wrong to ignore one atrocity so as to highlight another
Most Irish people didn’t read English. They had a different language. Many didn’t know what they signed until they ended up in the US. Lol
Often the slaves were worked to death before their contract was up. If you knew you only had 7 years on your slave you might as well not feed them well and work them harder then a slave you could keep for a lifetime.
My daughter (white) keeps having this come up with her (mostly black and Hispanic) SPED students. At the end, the discussion tends to get ended as quickly as possible with "Some INDIVIDUAL Irish people were enslaved (as a human right), but the Irish *were not an enslaved people*, and this is particularly relevant with regards to American history. There is NO similarity." It's not perfect, but it seems to be the quickest, easiest way to diffuse the Andrew Tate & Co. inspired arguments. (The funny part is that according to 23 and Me....she's something like 83% Irish descent. Who knew? No, really....her grandmother grew up in an orphanage.....we legit didn't know.)
Firstly, all races have been enslaved throughout history, especially in the modern era via human trafficking (which is never talked about because human trafficking is so all-over-the-place)
Secondly, why exactly did you feel the need to list off your daughter and her friends' races and mental capacities? Does that not seem discriminatory in any way to only use those particular adjectives to describe them? More importantly, why are those things important in any way to this discussion?
@@Bill_Cypher69 her *STUDENTS* not her "friends." I mentioned it because it's *relevant* - because she's a TEACHER who is RESPONSIBLE for having these discussions with CHILDREN who are not the same race as herself and often say things TO HER that they see on RUclips that they do not UNDERSTAND because she's WHITE and potentially the only (red haired) WHITE person they KNOW.
Up until the late 19th century most Irish farmers did not own the land they worked but worked it for an elite class of landowners mainly Anglo Irish aristocracy who were well known for usually ill treating their tenants who subdivided land equally among their sons which resulted in plot sizes shrinking and fewer yields and a dependancy on the Potato to survive (though there were middle class and yeoman farmers but they were rare) it turned into a disaster an gorta mór demographically (Population decreased significantly and has never recovered), culturally (Irish speakers being badly affected) and socially (emigration that has only stopped for brief pauses). Think of it being like share cropping in the USA in how exploitive it was.
Indentured servitude is now classed as a form of slavery (being close to Biblical slavery) as you are not paying for a set number of years a wage except bed and board and it was exploitive but not as exploitive that was the horror of the Atlantic Slave Trade.
I was born in Glasgow, Scotland where there's a lot of bigotry between Irish descent and British identified people. Irish were in effect banned from getting certain jobs, like years ago however, they were not enslaved. They were enslaved in the 9-11centuries by the Vikings, not recently though
The Scots were treated like shit as well...England is the enemy
Yep and we assimilated very much on purpose. Irish ex-coal miner family- it's very weird for us to say that because some other group of people has it worse, that that somehow cancels out what we've experienced? That's only something you'd think about someone if you didn't see them as part of your community.
Gonna be honest, kind of wanted to hear how the robot voice was going to handle pronouncing, “weoutcha.”
😂
Going from Oakland Ca and now living and raising kids in Washington State, i now have the urge to slap CauCousins because ive heard "well every race practiced slavery at one point in time " way way too many times from these people 😡🤬🤬
So let me get this straight, you can't handle the obvious truth that throughout history, every single race has enslaved and been enslaved, in some way, shape, or form. And so your response to that is to be racist towards the people telling you this because they happen to be white? "I now have the urge to slap Caucasians-" gonna stop you there, 9 months after you posted this and you still don't see how racist that is? Imagine if a white person was angry at a person of color for something they kept saying that made them angry and went online saying "I now have the urge to slap everyone of this race that I see!"
Well it’s true.
Native Americans had white slaves. Irish slaves. French slaves.
Blacks also had slaves from rival tribes in Africa. The British royal family made allot of money shipping slaves to the US. There is still slavery happening today in various parts of the world.
It doesn’t minimize or justify slavery in the US that black slaves faced for a period of time. It’s just the truth.
Of course, people who want reparations will minimize all other forms of slavery on the planet to get their money. Because everyone wants money.
Fredrick Douglas while in Ireland debunked this lie ahead of it’s time.
I was waiting and hoping for the AI to say "We Outcher" 😂
the very fact that people argue about this is very disturbing, while we can all agree (I hope) that Africans had it much much worse, the Irish too were oppressed, and in fact were also slaves, most definitely not to the same extent, but this wasn't anything voluntary. the genocide in the 1840s didn't help either. suffering is suffering and it's horrific for anyone or group who has to endure it. but being divided with who were hurt more or less than others puts two oppressed peoples against one another, which is exactly what the ruling class like. with unity and solidarity we can see the real enemy of everyone
You fundamentally misunderstand what this post is about if you think it's an oppression contest. The original claim was two-fold. 1. That the Irish were "slaves," too. They were not chattel slaves and even Irish scholars debunk that myth. Not all forced servitude is chattel slavery. That myth was manufactured by white supremacists and that's why Irish scholars quickly sought to debunk it. 2. That due to their own oppression, the Irish should be absolved of their participation in the chattel slavery of abducted Africans in the Triangle Trade. No. There's more nuance involved than what you propose. Otherwise, I wouldn't have to address these racist myths in the first place designed to undermine Black people's pursuit of liberty and equity.
@@sunnmcheaux thank you for clarifying, I had misinterpreted it so apologies for that
Those Irish slaves where the black celts that were sent here and many ended up in Jamaica. They took blacks from Europe, the Americas, West Indies and East Indies. Only 4% of African slaves came to North America from West Africa, so the majority of blacks ain't really African. Everything we were pretty much told was a lie and I learned this by digging through history. There are even slaves records of Jacobites who were black Britons and many where nobles and Monarchs. Even King James the 6th who translated the bible, believe it or not he was sent here when they kicked him off the thrown.
ruclips.net/video/Bm5QP0e73eA/видео.htmlsi=EPEcWhGwnIG9oHFI
O'Really got me going and I'm still waiting for the ad to finish 😂😂😂
What I love about your content is that it arms me with the vocabulary to argue against myths like this. Your explanation on the difference between punitive slavery and hereditary chattel is something I understood, but your succinctness gave me more clarity. Thank you.
I’m Irish, Scottish and American Indian. My Irish family kept journals. They were not servants. They were captains, soldiers, etc. They warred with the tribes and enslaved the Indians they captured. Then some of them turned around and claimed to be Native American and were listed as Indian by blood by the BIA. Indentured servitude wasn’t pretty, but it doesn’t compare to chattel slavery in the slightest.
Your argument is invalid because that's only your family being mentioned, not Ireland and its people as a whole, and not whatever minority (or majority) of Irish people who were enslaved. Also nobody with common sense has any reason to believe that what you're saying is even true unless you provide hard evidence or physical proof that anything you said is real, that's a fact.
As a man who is half Irish, from Cork, THANK YOU! Specifically for the mentioning of the forced migration and indentured servitude of the Penal Laws. This is a point that is often either faslely conflated as the clip states or seems oddly absent.
For the record the Irish were not slaves, and not treated to the same as chattal slaves. We had our own oppression to deal with, but the way in which bad faith arguments are made to leverage that struggle to invalidate the very real struggle of others is infuriating. We should be standing in solidarity! Thank you again.
Indentured servitude is slavery by choice not chattel. 🤦🏾♀️ Just when you THINK they can’t be more stupid they prove you wrong.
Irish people didn’t speak English. They spoke a different language back then. The Welsh. Also have their own language. Even to this day.
So often when people signed contracts they didn’t know what they signed and were fooled into it. They found out when they got off the boat.
Hahaha
That doesn’t include the Irish political prisoners that were branded with the symbol of the boat they were sent over on. The British were making allot of money in the black slave trade at that point but also getting rid of their political problems in Scotland, Ireland and Wales.
Kind of like how they sent people to Australia but different of course.
In America especially, education around the horrific reality of chattel slavery has been lacking - and this is absolutely purposeful. When the crimes of a system are minimized and ignored, when the system of power is itself the water we swim in, and teaching that air exists above water becomes forbidden and punishable, of course contextualized history becomes confusing and strange to hear, allowing myths and hatred to perpetuate themselves.
Oh bless him he can't cope that there are other victim than him sad individual shame carry on with your shelf loathing going to get you nowhere bless😢
I have been telling folks this since the late 90's. Indentured servitude and slavery are DIFFERENT THINGS!
Whataboutism seems too often to be a vague attempt to obuscate the fact that slavery really sucked.
I was waiting for the robot voice to say “weoutchea”😂
There were a lot of my ancestors that were indentured slaves, but they were able to work to get freedom. There were also criminals that they sent over here as slaves, and the only reason i know that is because my own genealogy. Some of them was crazzzyy
How about the Irish slaves of Jamaica??? Like wtf lmfaoo
💥BOOM!💥
PREACH! 💯 The "O'Really" had me like 🤣🤣🤣💯👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾!
Wrong the First slaves were Irish the word slave come from here Etymology. From Middle English sclave, from Old French sclave, from Medieval Latin sclāvus (“slave”), from Late Latin Sclāvus (“Slav”), because Slavs were often forced into slavery in the Middle Ages. The Latin word is from Byzantine Greek Σκλάβος (Sklábos), see that entry and Slav for more. So yep I just prove u wrong 😂😂😂
@@jeremygreis8478you got us there! Really had us thinking you meant this nonsense. Whew glad you're playing and not actually that ignorant.
🙋🏾♀️Yes that appetizer schooling had me rollin before I even watched the lesson Sunn unleashed on these fools. ✌🏾
Not to be rude, but all of you are acting foolish
I never knew watching someone calmly eating a bowl of cereal could be so doggone funny! I literally laughed at your unbotherdness and the thorough and literal READING you gave the commenter.
I don't know about you, but a smug attitude is usually the trait of someone who's pissed off about something, at least from personal experience.
I can’t help but notice the orientation of that “peace” sign. Is that a subtle middle finger to England for mistreating the Irish even as you’re acknowledging and remind us of how chattel slavery was much, much worse than Irish indentured servitude? Like “we had it worse, but we still see you, friends”?
Indentured servitude is a form of slavery and very much immoral and illegal... however, that the two things are any way similar is like comparing the holocaust to a stubbbed toe
I that's peace sign in USA, and I don't know if it was intentional given we're talking about Ireland, par o UK, but it went very well with "have a nice day" as a flip off at the end.
....as i eat my fish'n grits visu'lisin dis bukrah get deh bigeye!!!😕😕
Spot on. It's hard to have honest conversations about these things in the public square because one side acknowledges nuance while the other tends to try to generalize and paint in broad strokes.
The title of this video broke me lol! But in all seriousness, thank you for making this video covering this ridiculous misinformation.
I can’t believe we still have to repeat this over and over again. 🤦🏻♀️
This is completely silly and off topic but, I can't get passed what Sunn was eating😂 At first I thought it was corn but when it crunched, I thought maybe it was cereal. I'm guessing Kix?😉🤷🏾♀️ Now, I want a bowl of Kix😋
I was thinking Corn Pops, but Kix would also hit the spot right now.
See, you understand!!! I is two months later and I still want some @@TsubataLately
Definitely Kix 😊
Kid tested, Sunn approved.
There's no way you saw him with a spoon and a bowl that has milk in it and thought he was eating corn.
I’m currently eating a bowl of cereal too! 😆👍🏼
It’s sipping’ tea for me. 🫖
The world needed this
Its the crunching for me😂😂😂
You have an air of wisdom and authenticity about you. So cool 😎🥰
I am just sitting here jealous of my brother's corn pops.
Damn.
Even if it was true the being happy that “they don’t complain” is concerning.
Why are we promoting people being quiet and not complaining about oppression?
🤔
Also thanks for this enlightening video. 😊
If "I'll-Let-Them-Tell-You-Themselves" was a person.....So glad to see this debunked and a an additional nod toward understanding the difference between chattel slavery (particularly vicious, violent, savage, and merciless) and other forms of slavery. I also appreciate the fact that they addressed this entire rumor as being started in the 1990s as a means of minimizing the experience of Black slaves and, thus, seeking to discredit Black people today who live with and have endured various forms of racial bigotry that exist and are systemic in this country.
And I thank you kindly for that
Tell that to my forefathers, that became "Indentured" workers when they were forced off their own farmland and sent in Chains to America to build colonies.
It was Not a "Choice" for them. When they still had their land, If they were to eat anything grown on it, Or if they caught a fish in a stream on their own land, They would be put to death, By being "Drawn and Quartered" Their only "Choice" was Death, Debtors prison for not paying the Crowns Taxes on their land. Or Indentured Slavery. Truth is Truth. You cannot change it or hide it. It will always prevail.
O”Really!!!😂😂😂 I’ll have to steal that one! With proper attribution of course!❤
The Irish didn’t mind heaping violence on Black Americans, either, especially when they hired Black Americans during strikes and during the draft in the Civil War. They did the same in California to the Chinese.
The way you are chowing on that cereal…..😂😂😂😂😂
Irish were slaves too, That’s a weak pathetic attempt to justify slavery.
Um, no. Your argument is a weak attempt to conflate indentured servitude with chattel slavery. It's literally Irish scholars who are debunking the Irish slave myth. Relax.
@@sunnmcheaux I think you misunderstood my comment, it's called being sarcastic or facetious look up the word. I'ma proud black American and more militant than most I don't tap dance
I was waiting on the robo voice to say we outchea though!
I'm not Irish but my family did come here as indentured servants a very long time ago and yes we were treated as slaves the difference is we were not legally considered livestock there's other differences as well Offspring were not automatically considered slaves in the case of my family but they did take time away from work that we were supposed to be doing in order to pay off our Voyage here very easy to get the facts misconstrued as always I appreciate your content
The difference is...your family was not treated as slaves. It's not hard to stick to the facts.
@@Miss-Ann-Thrope the british. king james the 3 ordered that all irish shall be relocated to the west of the irish isle, any who refused were to be executed or taken to the americas. does that sound like a willing servant to you? saying that irish people were slaved doesnt diminish what was done to africans. but its gross and plainly wrong to ignore one atrocity so as to highlight another
@@RUARI-mi1ytThe person I responded to said, "I'm not Irish, but my family did come here as indentured servants...." Since you jumped in, the Irish enslaved Africans as well. Many Black Caribbean and Black Americans have Irish DNA. When have you seen European slaveholders (and their American descendants) list Irish slaves amongst their property? List sources that show plantations full of enslaved Irish and their following generations born into slavery and the slave codes used against them. Also, cite sources that show how Irish slavery has developed into systemic racism or classism today.
How many Irish people would trade what their ancestors went through with what slaves went through?
Yeah like you want to pick white slavery do a better job. There is the islamic slave trade sitting right there.
Irish servants were still treated as inferior to the English.
The Irish don’t complain is like saying LeBron James don’t play basketball!!! It’s our main form of entertainment!!!
I just sent this to someone that loves to use that same argument with me
Is that Kix cereal? I didn't think that was available anymore. Anyway, very educational as usual.
J Draper has an excellent video about this. She's a tour guide in London.
The Molly McGuires
They weren't slaves.
Wasn't Scarlett O'Hara Daddy an Irishman??
Aw shit , them CauCousins gonna bring up Moses and the jewish slaves biblical stuff ???😂
You spelled Caucasian wrong, also are you seriously denying the legitimacy of the Hebrews undergoing brutal, non-stop slavery by the Egyptians for hundreds of years just because white people are talking about it and just because it was mentioned in the bible?
wow, gatekeeping racism? impressive, what next? rosa parks should have took a cab?
Hey brother, Thank you!
They bet on people not knowing history. Their experiences as indentured servants who had to pay off a debt/ and or they committed a crime so they were sent to the US. Is vastly different, from what they Love to compare it to.. betting on people to not know enough and feel bad. I don’t..especially with some some of them act- I grew up in Boston. Some are sweet and the rest act like they weren’t considered lower than dogs to “yt” ppl at some point.. it’s laughable
Ye of course you americans believe whatever the media throws at ye. The irish were invaded back all the way in 1100 AD and were esnalved/raped. Ahere do you think the great famine came from? Where the british burned out all the crops and didnt feed the irish, why do you think the irish speak english? My great grandfather was pulled out forcefully by the british to die in a trench. Anyone like you who tries telling me my history is different or wasnt as bad? Please the irish went through 700 more years of it and at least the blackslaves were granted freedom eventually or if they served in militia, the irish were forced to work and starbed while doing so with women and children raped and killed and men worked til death.
Would you stop blaming all Irish or white people for something that only a small minority are pushing? Nobody is trying to quell the experiences of African slaves, that's only the racist people who are trying to sabotage the whole thing by saying that "Irish slaves had it worse". Irish slavery was a very real thing, same with how all peoples globally and throughout history have enslaved and been enslaved, does that mean it was as bad as African-American or African slavery? Absolutely not. But to sit here and try and snuff out the experiences of Irish slaves makes you a blatant hypocrite, same with hundreds of others in the comments. So many of you are just cookie-cutting the same damn things, have an original thought for once, use critical thinking, think outside the box, compare and contrast, do more research than looking at the first two pages of google, etc.
Thank you.
My Irish ancestors came here to escape murder charges in Ireland. They were not slaves.
Is indentured servitude better? Do you treat your own car or one you're renting worse?
We're the IRISH considered 3/5 of a person in a ratified Constitution?
That 3/5ths of a person was something abolitionists wanted. Mostly because the southern slave democrats wanted to count their slaves towards the census. That would give the Democrat slave owners of the south more power in selecting the president of the United States because it would give them more electoral votes.
This was a compromise made until well…the civil war.
I don’t even know if we had a constitution when the Irish slaves were being used by the British colonizers. I would have to look. It was probably pre-revolutionary war.
Do you know anything about the serfdom slavery in the Eastern Europe? Several historians compare it with chattel slavery, it was abolished in 1860s in Russian Empire.
i find it really disturbing that people would dismiss an entire peoples experience as myth because they think it would diminish their, i don't know, claim to victimhood?? like why are you gatekeeping slavery? it is a matter of historical record that the Irish were sold into slavery. if it makes you feel better to call them "indentured servants" fine. but taking kids from their parents, putting them on a ship and selling them to other people for 200 pounds of cotton sure sounds like slavery to me. I'm just confused why or how saying the Irish were slaves has any effect on the also very true and bad fact that Africans were also slaves. this should be something to unite over. slavery is bad. so is covering it up for political gain.
Eat with me. I serve nothing but facts.
We outchea!
I hate this myth I am Irish and I pains me to see people using me as a example for something so racist toward black people they were not slaves they where servants if at that love this guy
I am an American Indian, as defined by Degree of Indian Blood Quantum, which would be considered Indigenous, and Indian Freedmen Status, which would be considered Afro-Indigenous. I am also considered 1/16 Black non-Indigenous.
I also have a degree of non Indian blood.
The first White man in America of my blood was from England and was an indentured person and tobacco field laborer from the foundational era of John Smith's Jamestown.
I'm also the descendant of tobacco & fur traders of both an Indigenous background from within Northern Scandinavia, as well as from the Nordic countries. They were all indentured people as well.
Also of an Irish Catholic family which arrived in a set of four generations all at once in 1678, the elders of whom were indentured laborers in Virginia plantations.
Point being,
1) Indentured people were more than just Irish, they were from many places: also English, Swedish, and assimilated Native people from Scandinavia.
2)
Slavery in the White world is incomparable to Afro Indigenous status in the Indian world.
3) indentured status among Europeans in the White world wasn't transferable over the context of multiple generations.
One of the purposes of enslaving Africans was so they could couldn't walk away and just blend in. Another was KSAs that wipipo from Europe didn't have but needed to cultivate their plantation crops! You know _ knowledge, skills and abilities they already had, not learned as slaves in 'Murica!🤨🙄
They say this so loud and proud while being completely ignorant. Even if the Irish were slaves if they sit silently while we reject oppression that still doesn’t make us wrong! Why do they use shaming tactics to try to silence us just like a grapist would his victims?
I can say with 1 million percent certainty that Irish people don't care about the slave history of Irish people or indentured servitude. Ireland has fought the British for over 800 years, the IRA are still a thing, it's not about slavery, no but we are focused on standing up against tyranny
There certainly were (white) slaves in the UK during medieval times but it's unclear who they were or whether their descendants survive. This doesn't erase the transatlantic skave trade or the well documented atrocities or the history of the subsequent civil rights struggles African-Americans have experienced.
he's eating lucky charms 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
the british. king james the 3 ordered that all irish shall be relocated to the west of the irish isle, any who refused were to be executed or taken to the americas. does that sound like a willing servant to you? saying that irish people were slaved doesnt diminish what was done to africans. but its gross and plainly wrong to ignore one atrocity so as to highlight another
Irish indentured servitude sounds alot more complacent and willing than it actually was. It was a slavery, but it was not chattel slavery.
Indentured servitude is classed as a form of slavery
@@oscarosullivan4513 That's what I said.
Slaves do not have contracts determining the length of their slavery and the length of service before they are free from their contracts . Indentured servants were not slaves by the very definition of what indentured servitude is.
You are a national treasure❤
In spite of Sunn letting the words narrate the "Irish slave myth", I heard only his voice as the text appeared, with intonation and all... Sunn's voice reigns, even when he does not speak.❤
You sound like a lunatic devotee