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Colour Chemistry E13: How toxic are watercolour paints really? Do I need to worry much about this?
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- Опубликовано: 18 янв 2017
- In this video I uncover some of the myths around paint safety. Sure, don't eat paint, but don't be paranoid either!
65 tubes of watercolor? It's a very expensive way to die! XD
I just loved your channel, thank you for sharing your knowledge!
+Paula Pikulski You're welcome. Hoping to get some new content online this week.
I am a chemistry student (in Germany) and an amateur at painting with watercolors and this channel just speaks to me on so many levels. I'm so grateful for it. Thank you so much.
I took art lessons as a kid, was painting in oils by the time I was 12. I held extra brushes between my teeth while I was painting, and always had paint on my skin and under my nails. Cadmiums were a given. Later I spent several years working in soft pastel, I never wore gloves to protect my hands, and always blew away pastel dust, making it airborne...exactly what they tell you not to do. If watercolor paint is toxic, oh well. Probably too late for me at this point.
Makes me sad to hear about the rats. They should be testing this shit on serial killers.
This is so helpful. I am not so worried about my own contact with the chemicals in watercolours, more about how to dispose of them responsibly. Saw your advice in the comments, thank you.
I was literally stressing over my hand touching a very thin dry wash of color lmaooo thank you so much!!
Oh my god, this is the best channel ever. Science and art... Science of art? This is amazing. Thank you so much for doing these videos.
Ellen Kelly You're very welcome!
I am really glad you decided to make this!! Great addition to the youtube Verse . Also I can tell you we people worried about CAD once a month or so. We finally had to make an info blog on paint safety.
theartsherpa I'm going to follow this up with a page on my website curating all of the lethal doses and workplace exposure limits for all the common pigments. Glad you see the value in it :)
Late to the game, but I love this video. I remember my organic chemistry instructor talking about relative chemical safety. He mentioned that if acids with the pH of certain soda pops were used in a lab, they'd have warnings about getting on hands, using goggles, etc. But ironically, you could leave the lab and drink a soda of the same pH without a warning.
If someone ever wants to commit suicide by eating 60 tubes of watercolor, I ask that they PLEASE contact me. I'll trade them their paint for my giant-sized Costco bottle of Tylenol, which probably has worse toxicity and is much more absorbable. No, actually, I'd instead try and get them to paint because with that much toxic paint, they are very interested in art! and help them forget about suicide. But you know my point.
Have a great, non-toxic day.
I airbrush acrylics quite a bit. I use a mask and an extractor booth. Pigments are an issue when airbrushing due to the direct route to mucus membrane but the biggest reason I use my safety gear is because the dried aerosolised acrylic binder particles are a far bigger risk to the lungs than the pigment is. Being from a biological lab background too, you get so used to dealing with safety regulations and the associated reams of paperwork that safety becomes instinctive, but you tend to learn very quickly where the real risks are. The bigger risks always lay with the solvents, powders and aerosols. Pastes like paint were always the most secure and safer forms of substances because they are so easy to control where they went.
I think there is common and growing paranoia in the general population of anything that sounds "Chemical". They happily sprinkle salt and vinegar on their fish and chips - but call it sodium chloride and acetic acid and they would probably freak. As you say, everything is potentially toxic even the air we breath! As a diver I am well versed with oxygen toxicity and nitrogen narcosis but for most people this will never be an issue... and unless they spread it like peanut butter on their sarnies then neither will their paint. I think a bigger worry for many is environmental impact of heavy metals like cadmium - in this instance artists are but a grain of sand compared to the millions of tones of cadmium dumped annually in landfills from old batteries.
These are the people who sign petitions to ban dihydrogen monooxygen.
I had heard about the toxicity of some paints so it was good hearing the news from someone who knows! Thx so much
+Jo Anne Owens You're welcome - obviously it still means be careful but honestly, treat paints like something like aspirin (out of reach of kids, careful when using to make sure you don't overexpose yourself) rather than like nuclear waste which is how some people on RUclips react re: metals etc...
This was wonderfully informative!
My 11 year old nephew is kind of obsessed with radiation and bombs and such at the moment and told me about cobalt bombs and I gave him a good shock when I told him that I had plenty of cobalt in my paints and that it was so many places, like in his beloved phone too. Gave us a good chance to talk about how not every cobalt is the same, which led us to talk about uranium and iron and background radiation and a lot of other interesting stuff.
I'll link him this video and maybe he'll find it interesting even if there are no bombs or WWII things mentioned, heh.
Thank you very much!
I've just gotten into watercolour painting and trying to get my bearings about pigments, some RUclipsrs were quite weary about cadmiums and beeing a complete noob it got me weary too (and Im not generally a person who worry much about such thing, but with pigment I knew nothing). You have completely put my mind at rest. Thank you! Excellent video ❤❤❤
Exceptional video. Thanks for "keeping it real" (as with your desk) and sharing this info
You’re welcome - I’ll never tidy my desk just to please some viewer somewhere lol
Thank you for making this video. I am an artist with OCD, healthy anxiety, and contamination anxiety. Your commentary has eased my mind.
We have a septic system and get our water from a drilled well on our property.
I use gouache. I've started to dispose of my paint water in cat litter because I am concerned about cobalt and cadmium building up in our drinking water over time. Do you think this is overkill?
When it comes to "inhaling dust", do I need to be concerned about dried cadmium/cobalt paints on a palette? Like if some dried crumbs of flakes come off? Or is this not the same as dust? I ask because I like to pan my gouache.
Finally, is there any difference between how one should treat paints with cadmium sulfide versus cadmium selenide versus cadmium sulfoselenide?
I should add that I am less concerned about dying today or tomorrow and more worried about cumulative exposure over time causing cancer or something.
awesome video. put my mind at ease to learn a bit on toxicology when it comes to cadmium paint. thanks for sharing your have a new fan.
Sooooo I used to sharpen my brushtips with my mouth quite a bit and also dip them in my mouth to reshapen them after cleaning when I was a teenager. Saliva is just such a good and conveniently available agent to shape the hairs and keep them in place.
Safe to say I don't do that anymore and haven't in a long time, but it's still nice to hear that I probably didin't cause much damage to my body doing it, seeing the tiny amounts of paint I must have ingested.
Still, it's pretty harrowing to read what happened to the radium girls for doing the exact same thing, with much, much more dangerous paint.
Not to speak of the criminal negligence with wich the women were treated by the Radium companies. Not only did they work without any safety equipment. Sharpening the brush with their mouth to keep the tip fine enough for the tiny numbers they were painting is something they were actually tought to do. The Company thought the amounts of Radium ingested were too small to cause any real damage.
Now, radiation poisioning is diffrent from regular poisioning, but it also gets much worse once it actually enters your body. Had they not ingested it, most of them probably wouldn't have died in their 30's.
Shaping a brush after cleaning it? How many nanograms of pigment would be left in the brush hairs?
I love my cadmiums and cobalts. You can’t fake them either.
I just watched a video on either Golden's or Liquitex's RUclips about whether cadmium should be prohibited because of the toxicity to the environment... but comparatively speaking we'd have to get rid of all kinds of chemicals that are more prevalent in our day to day lives. Including medicine... so much of what is not process or absorbed in the body comes out as waste and ends up in water than can often not be taken out in processing plants. Good video.
Liz H People who've had chemotherapy with cisplatin urinate platinum for decades which is extremely toxic (to humans and the environment) - but no one frets about that - yet Cd pigments with really low toxicity (comparatively) gets bad press.
I never really understood the fear of the paint being poisonous. (I've seen some reviews on paints where people returned the items they bought because they contained real cadmiums and such.) Though, I guess I am in the minority? I know that some pigments could poison me, but I just figured, don't eat it or get paint on myself and I should be fine. (also I figured the manufacturers wouldn't be allowed to sell products that could kill off people easily.) Anyways, this was super interesting and also very funny. :) I really like your sense of humor.
Thank you for bringing some sense in this topic, it's very interesting. I know in Sweden most people are very very scared of cadmiums, but mostly because of the harm done to the environment. I wonder if you have tried any of Winsor & Newtons new cadmium free alternatives? I'm curious about how they are.
When it comes to other toxic paints, I have a full pan of genuine vermilion, but it's really not that interesting... :)
Lisa Sandboge I won’t be testing the new W&N paints as tbh they are a marketing gimmick way of selling basic red and yellow pigments they already use in other colours but at a higher price by playing on ppl’s insecurities and spreading fear. If I want to use Cd Red I’ll use the real thing: why would I ever want to use anything else? Nothing matches it. One of the acrylic companies has proud Cd free paints etc but they look nothing like the real thing if you really scrutinise them. It’s all just fear mongery and I find it pretty low as a way to make money by scaring people tbh.
@@TheSpinDoctor Thank you for your insights! What bugs me most is that they refuse to tell us what pigments they use in those paints... I wanna know! I mean, who doesn't? It's important info.
Most people seem to have no idea that the amount of toxins that they take in through foods, drinking water, vaccines, medications and cheaply made plastic products, and cosmetics, is far, FAR greater than anything one could ever take in using modern art supplies in a responsible manner. Personally, I try to always buy the least toxic alternatives because I have a very nosy cat and I also do not want to add anything to the water supply via my old brush water that I can avoid. but when there is no alternative like that, then I will use the cadmium, cobalt, etc. and simply make sure that I will really only use it for pieces when I need it and where my cat cannot get to it. I think that is responsible. But this is for paints. With pastels I do worry a little, but not just about the metals but about dust in general, as it is never ok to breathe in any kind of dust, period.
With the cyanide you could build up your immunity and then be a super villain with the old "choose the poison cup" trick. You do have that evil mastermind vibe about you;) BTW i sniffed my mermaid marker ink and smelled almond...
thefrugalcrafter Lindsay Weirich I can't be the only one having a Dread Pirate Roberts moment, right?
thefrugalcrafter Lindsay Weirich Could be almond fragrance added but more likely an almond oil (cheap, cf. older baby oils from the 80s) or detergent derived from one being used as a paint ingredient like an emulsifier or retardant - they do lift well, right?
yep:)
pretty well, there is some lovely unexpected staining in reds
thefrugalcrafter Lindsay Weirich Reds do tend to stain as a rule - remember my PQRS rule of staining - "Phthalocyanine, Quinacridones and Reds Stain" - easy mnemonic! I can check the structure of the dyes but I think it is caused by a particular group often found on red dyes and pink dyes that binds cellulose strongly.
omg lol I would get so stressed working in that mess! I love how you leave it all even for your videos shows were all real people!!
I found a video of a guy who is making his own flake white (led white) oil paint, he uses led plates and hangs them in vinegar and then he said "after a while you can see the reaction on the led plates and the vinegar starts to taste sweet..." - he really tasted the vinegar, seriously that is nuts, or am I wrong? p.s. I really dont know whats all the fuzz about led white oil paint anyways, Im happy with titanium white.
Il Sinistero Flake White is a very useful paint for oil painters - in an oil matrix, titanium dioxide and zinc oxide behave in a way that aren’t compatible with all painters and it is hard to get a smooth finish with titanium dioxide, so the use of basic lead carbonate (flake white, PW1) still persists as it is the only way to get a really opaque white that gives a smooth finish. On the other hand, PW1 is of no value to watercolourists as in gum arabic it just looks like titanium dioxide so no point using it.
As you say, PW1 is made by hanging sheets of elementary lead either in vinegar or over vats of boiling vinegar. The acetic acid in the vinegar attacks the lead, first forming lead acetate (Pb(CH3COO)2) also known as sugar of lead because, as you say, it tastes sweet (as do most lead compounds) and then heat causes this to break down and leaves the basic lead carbonate ((PbCO3)2Pb(OH)2) - so going from Pb3C12H18O12 to Pb3C6H2O8, to write it another way - both CO2 and H2O are driven off during the heating step. Is he mad for tasting this? Depends. I’ve drunk a solution of potassium cyanide to demonstrate that “the dose makes the poison” to my students, but I drink much less than the lethal amount and the enzyme rhodanese in my liver removes 100% of it within minutes. Lead is rather a different matter - it accumulates in the body, so if he consumes it often enough, yes some real and irreversible damage will happen. That said, keep two things in mind 1) v little lead (in grand scheme of things) dissolved in the vinegar and how much of that dissolved lead is as free Pb(II) ions and how much is stuck to other things is not known (former being harmful, latter being not/less so) and 2) a higher concentration of lead may be present in drinking water in many parts of the world, in which lead poisoning still doesn’t usually occur. Lead pipe plumbing is still found in many parts of the United Kingdom, for example, and does is no harm. So on the one hand, yes potentially quite stupid but on the other, within context, he ain’t taking in much lead if tasting a tiny amount.
@@TheSpinDoctor thanks for the informative answer! :) I personally will keep using titanium white. even if I would want to use real flake white, its nearly impossible to get, at least here in europe, and if you can find a tube, its 3 or 4 times, or even more, the price of titanium white. when it comes to cobalts and cadmiums, no matter if oil, acrylic or watercolors, Im not scared of, Im not eating the paint :D Solvents in oil painting I mostly use Gamsol, real turpentine only for damar etc, so that also should not be a big problem.
Hello Spin Doctor, I Really really love your videos, and this one is in my top shared videos of yours everytime friends of mine are concerned about paint toxicity such as cadmiums and cobalts in watercolours. I've seen that you've answered some people's concerns about disposing paint water down the sink, and I raise the same question with manganese pigments: i've bought a handmade manganese violet watercolour pan and the etsy listing of said paint recommended to dispose of the paint water in a sort of filter made out of sand and rocks, so the water would come out cleaner and the manganese pigment would stay in the sand/rocks(and then i'd need to dispose of the sand once it becomes saturated).... is it really necessary, or am I just okay by disposing the paintwater down the sink?
Totally over the top, as you have guessed! Manganese Violet (PV16, ammonium manganese pyrophosphate) is extremely insoluble and short of using a strong mineral acid, it is not going to leach manganese, and even if it does, it’s not a particularly toxic metal as it is a nutrient and the body has good homeostatic ability to control how much is in it at any given time. The only time you need to be cautious really with most paint pigments that are toxic is if you have a septic tank and are disposing of large amounts of lead or mercury specifically or cadmium sulfates - like Cd yellow and red - in larger amounts, as in the conditions of a septic tank, they can leach a bit and the upshot of that is they might kill your septic tank and result in it not digesting properly - that is only in large amounts though, and so anyone disposing of tens of grams of those pigments every single day that way should absorb them into cat litter and thrown them into the bin for landfill instead. Everyone else, it’s not an issue you need worry about and for PV16 it would be futile overkill - just throw it down the sink!
@@TheSpinDoctor thank you very much for your answer! :D
Excellent! Now I can go back to mistaking dirty paint water for my coffee and not count in dread the number of respirations I have left until I push daisies....lol! ;)
Sweet pea I've accidentally drunk paint water before now. I didn't even notice the taste...!
Sounds like the biggest risk in using cadmium paints is the stress overblown safety warnings cause.
Yup and being duped into wasting money on hues that 2 major manufacturers are calling “Cd-free Cd Yellow” (aka “Cd Yellow (Hue)” just slightly better matched that before but FAR from perfect) and selling at an absurd price. If you challenge them, they come up with lines like “no it’s not a hue because it has been made so the tube even feels the same weight in your hand” yes cuz THAT matters to ....nope... no one. I think in all honesty their marketing depts got duped by the manufacturers of these new hue pigments into thinking they might be sued for killing us all and/or wanted to sell a “green” option to greenwash their other activities...and then people bought it and either went “this Cd Orange (Hue) doesn’t mix like the real thing” (it doesn’t) or did some research and realised the originals are harmless unless you eat paint, and now sales have fallen.
Kind of a serious topic but you made me crack up throughout XD
Again, very informative and thank you very much for sharing your knowledge :)
Eve Bolt - Bolt's Vault You're welcome - and I never do serious. The only way to get through life is to find a way to laugh at everything.
I completely agree with you on that :)
I know 2 artists that have developed allergies to everything. One lady can only use egg-tempera she claims and the other was the elementary school art teacher and she could not even be around anyone wearing perfume. They say it is because of prolonged use. Are they for real do you think?
thefrugalcrafter Lindsay Weirich Hypersensitivity and allergy and intolerance and so on are all different things and true allergy is often caused by underexposure (why they now tell parents to give all kids peanuts before 6 months of age, to prevent peanut allergies).
thefrugalcrafter Lindsay Weirich I have a severe reaction to perfumes (pretty much all of them: candles, perfumes, laundry detergent, cleaning supplies, etc) but this is due to my lupus & fibromyalgia, not because of any art supplies. I wonder if those 2 artists have a medical condition (diagnosed or undiagnosed) causing their issues rather than prolonged use of paint. I would think their diet has a bigger impact on how their bodies react vs the actual paint. I also wonder if it is more of a psychological issue or possibly a conscious or subconscious excuse to close themselves off from creating for whatever reason. Definitely interesting... 🤔
Valarie Connell /DrawingWithFire I know many women develop nasal intolerance to some smells after childbirth (or in others a major intolerance gets better after birth). I have a friend who since having her daughter feels actual pain in her nose if certain perfumes are on someone else in the same room.
The Spin Doctor Yeah, that is due to hormones and in general subsides within the first year after birth. Our bodies go crazy during pregnancy and after child birth. This is due to a medical reason though and not like what Lindsay mentioned in regards to painting for years. I think the two artist she mentioned (if there isn't a dxs of medical conditions...very important) have gotten something stuck in their head for whatever the reason.
*FYI, you stated your background as a trained scientist...so i just have to state, I'm master trained in psychology & counseling. 😉 😜
Valarie Connell /DrawingWithFire My friends who have developed intolerances after childbirth have it years later. No cause but very real (can detect things no one else in the room can see or smell then have a nosebleed as a result). I would say the ppl Mrs W knows have either developed it as a result of Something Else (not long term low level exposure - that only sets things off like contact dermatitis etc usually and sensitivity) or, as you say, have no physical cause.
Nice bit of German there at the beginning! I was so surprised, I had to think twice what you were saying! :D Thanks for the very informative post - once again!
Chrissie aka GermaicanLady I recorded it on the fly whilst editing the video so my accent is probably a bit off. I usually sound Viennese so I'm told by German friends. I sound Belgian when I speak French, or Quebecoise....
Good advice and well said. I believe you have probably helped a lot of people produce better art because they will be more confident and relaxed about working with their materials. Once again you remind me of Elizabeth Zimmerman and her common sense approach to her knitting and painting.
Ada Louise thanks so much - high praise indeed to be compared to EZ!
good info, I have used industrial strength inks and chemicals forall kinds of artwork for a lot of years with different industries and I am still here LOL probably die from the stress of it all.
Ian Jackson thanks Ian
Have you heard of the sculptor who was poisoned from carving mussel shells? Was she poisoned because she inhaled it and it was in a form that could be absorbed? I do a lot of different arts and crafts, sometimes using shells, bones, rocks, all sorts of things. Now I'm kind of worried lol.
Studio Caprittarius in Toronto yes - she had spent 65,000 hours (12h a day over 15 years) grinding and sanding shells and inhaling and ingesting the dust. You don’t get that from paint, and most painters don’t even approach those kinds of house of actively inhaling dust. I cannot believe she wasn’t using protection...! Forget the metals, ground shell is a major lung irritant.
Studio Caprittarius PS: she also ate most of the mussels she carved which is a greater route of metal poisoning.
@@TheSpinDoctor yeah...when I drill or sand stuff I usually do it under water which catches the dust but I also usually cover my face anyway
Hi Dr. Spin": what are the respiratory dangers of using a hair dryer on watercolor paints as far as dispersing any toxic ingredients in the paints and the inhalation thereof? And/or in the event of the dried "toxic" pigments being released by handling the finished pieces and dislodging particles of "toxins" eg cadmium, cobalt, lead, et. etc. in the air and inhaling same? thank you."
Negligible. You’re dealing with tiny amounts of actual pigment and in pretty big particles esp once dry. It doesn’t move (it’s not like pastel where you have a constant dust), and drying it with heat doesn’t make any difference. Even if you did somehow manage to inhale a particle of Cd Red the first thing is that the pigment is extremely low toxicity by inhalation, secondly it’ll be trapped by nasal mucus or pushed back out by cilia in the respiratory tract in most occasions long before microscopic amounts of Cd are absorbed into the blood. You eat more Cd a day from soil on your food or from drinking water - the amounts are beyond tiny and not worth worrying about. Remember the lethal dose would require you to eat 10+ tubes of acrylic paint and the acrylic would still do you more harm that the Cd would given the amount you’d need to eat. Even to cause significant harm, you’re looking at significant ingestion over a long period of time. For context I’ve worked with large amounts (kg) of cadmium salts, mercury salts, lead salts, uranium salts etc all of which ARE absorbed through the skin (paint pigments are not) for 25 years and never had any show up on blood tests for any of them as above normal level - so if after 25 years of large amounts daily I’ve none in my system, the average painter handling TINY amounts (mg) of NON-absorbable forms with low toxicity isn’t likely to be anywhere near in a position in which they need to be concerned :)
@@TheSpinDoctor Thanks Dr. Spin for that thorough explanation.😀
As a Respiratory Nurse Specialist ( who often drinks paint water or inadvertently sucks brush when in the zone......) the only worry I've ever considered ...for about 30 secs....is that anybody with compromised airways needs to be vigilant around all these exotic mica sprays and aerosols. Even then ...just very basic ventilation/ inhalation care.
Blame the bastard Brexits for everything........a man after my own heart
This is helpful thanks. I found some vintage Winsor Newton paints through a yard sale including several Cadmium colors and am unsure if I should try to use them. They have harded in the tube so the only way to get them out is to cut the paints out of the tube and grind them into pans or add gum Arabic. Not afraid of using the paint, but am afraid of the process of getting them in a usable state. Dust.
No need - just cut the tube off and use them like you would use pans. They’ll be absolutely perfectly useable. Might take 10 mins of pre-wetting with hot water the first time you use them, however.
😹I always thought watercolor is very safe, and never worried about it at all! I was more worried about pastels because of the dust produced. thank you for this video, very informative!
Hello and thank you for sharing this information with us, it is quite enlightening regarding the harms of pigments for humans. I am not a professional artist, but I just have a question, regarding the environment, about the phrase that says "harmful to aquatic life" or "harmful to aquatic life with long-lasting effects", what is the safest way to dispose of the water waste of these pigments? And if this phrase is not mentioned on a watercolour set (like those made in China and such), is it better to assume that it is harmful to aquatic life (since we don't know what pigments are there)? To be honest with you, as I am concerned about the environment, I have saved the water waste of those children watercolour sets in a jar to dispose of it as toxic waste, and I hope to know if this is the right way to deal with it. Thank you in advance for answering me!
It means don’t dispose of it into a pond, basically, or septic tank. Just dispose down the sink with running water or into landfill absorbed onto cat litter, for example.
I have just recently taken up watercolour and i am also concerned about the environment and aquatic life. And of course our drinking water. Even though i understand what you’re saying, i still decided to use an old Brita waterfilter to filter the paint water before i flush it. I mark the filter cannister “watercolour pigments” and take to a recycle facility.
Thank you. I was thinking of quitting my art hobby because of toxic pigments. What about Titanium White?
Harmless. You eat it - it is used in foods and toothpastes and most medications to colour capsules and pills white. It is used in sunscreen. It is in every sheet of white typing paper. Even if you ate paint, this pigment would do you no harm.
The Spin Doctor I have read in the news that it is under review in France for it's carcinogenic effects... just wondering
Ruth Park That is for the even more finely divided forms which can be inhaled when dry. All France have done is update handling guidelines when huge amounts are being handled in factories and dust raised etc. Doesn’t change anything for painters as it is in a matrix and thus not going to raise a dustZ
What about Nickel and Copper? And Viridian? Are they all in the same camp as Cadmium, Cobalt, and Manganese?
Unless you plan to eat very, very large quantities of paint, none are appreciably toxic by any other route than ingestion and you need to eat lots and lots. Cobalt pigments are far less toxic than cadmium pigments. Copper ones vary a bit but are seldom used in any case. The only nickel pigments are a small number of organic yellows that have negligible toxicity.
@@TheSpinDoctor Thanks so much for the reply and interesting video! Do you feel the same about chronic exposure over decades? It seems like several of my phthalo blue's have copper but maybe this is a brand choice. Thanks again!
@@stacys447 Some phthalocyanines do have copper in them (there are about 9 different phthalocyanine pigments, not all contain copper) but it’s a tiny, tiny amount and it’s very tightly bound and would just pass the GI tract “as is” without dissolution copper into the blood and even if it did, we have evolved excellent copper homeostasis and would just get rid of it again if we did not need it. I would not worry about chronic exposure unless (again) you’re physically eating large amounts of paint - there is no other exposure route for watercolour paint that causes any appreciable uptake into the blood, so even for metals that bioaccumulate like cadmium, the amount you’d need to ingest would kill you from a blocked intestine long before the metals therein did!
@@TheSpinDoctor Thanks!
I just bought the Schmincke whiskey flask set. It has a cadmium red permanent in there. Should I be concerned about using it?
Not unless you plan to eat it. Even if you did, you’d have to eat about 30-40 half pans in one sitting before any harm done...
@@TheSpinDoctor Thank you!
I was trying to find info about it, but was having a hard time.
I think I just really freaked myself out. I've never really thought about metals in my paint and have been seeing more people with the Utrecht cadmium free slogan bags. I'm really glad I found your channel, you're very helpful!
Thank you so much for this video. Really helpful information. Also, that sounds like one hell of a toxicology lecture.
It's not a patch on my STIs lecture that begins by telling them statistically how many in the audience have which STI. Last time I gave it the local pharmacy ran out of free chlamydia test kits as a result!
The Spin Doctor when I used to lecture new techs on Giardia, I used to delight in their horror- and at least I knew they would be a bit more fastidious when it came to hand washing. Hee! Also, I feel ya on the bubble wrap. So sad. Popping bubble wrap is just joyful.
Inky Nerd Art I also watch videos of one "dr pimple popper" whose videos are as satisfying as bubble wrap but a bit more gross ;)
The Spin Doctor me too! People in my life are horrified by the absolute glee dr pimple popper brings out. Just. SO. Good.
Inky Nerd Art One of my friends at work had her husband say to her "Have you spoken to someone professional about this? It's not normal to enjoy watching that!"
Thank you! I have so many health issues and autoimmune.. I use all kinds of artist watercolors Schmincke/DS etc.. I get wet paint on my fingers, I blow dry my paintings and I touch my dried painting as I paint.. And then I got paranoid that maybe this is adding to my sickness..
Not a chance. Whilst charlatans who prey on the vulnerable online will sell you all manner of crap to “remove the metals from your body that are really what is causing your lupus/HIV/cancer/etc”, there’s negligible risk to normal end-users of heavy metal-containing paints as the only exposure route that has any major effect is ingestion and even then, you’d need to eat many tubes of paint every day before you saw any effect.
@@TheSpinDoctor Thanks for your reply :) Yeah they are trying to tell me I have lupus... and I have read about the natural treatments and heavy metal detoxing! I've not done it.. This is a good video. I liked that you're educated in the toxicity because you work in science but that you are an artist as well, your humor was a bonus! I will be more conscientious about what I'm doing because I'm not careful with the paints, at all... especially since I let my 9 year old use my artist grade paints! I almost got rid of hundreds of dollars of paint this week and was going to replace them all lol. I'm so glad I didn't!
Very informative!! A lot of good common sense....thank you : )
Will it be okay to dump the waste water after painting on the garden or down the kitchen sink , if i use cadmium and cobalt based paints ?
monsur habib Of course - you are using TINY amounts - pour it down the sink and leave the tap running for 15 seconds. Don’t pour it onto the ground outside.
Thanks for the reply....by the way why its not safe to pour it on the ground ...doesnt these heavy metals come from earth ?
They are not found in soils usually and since soil dries and blows as dust in the wind and gets into the food chain, you should not dispose of metals onto it.
I let my rinse water settle for a day or two, then pour off the water down the toilet. I then wipe out the residue with a paper towel and dispose of those carefully.
This kinda scared me. I just received a winsor and newton cotman watercolor set and I’m kinda afraid to use it now...
Nothing in the Cotman line is toxic - and even if it was, you’d need to eat all of every single block of paint in 30 palettes to do yourself any harm.
@@TheSpinDoctor Thank you for clarifying! I was quite worried actually, but that eases my mind thank you!
thank you for your very informative video, I learnt a lot. I also burst out laughing when I heard your fantastic quote about the changes in toblerone and bubble wrap :-) (Lol)
Anita Hunt You're welcome :)
so basically the 0.1ml of paint an average per painting is about as much chance winning the lottery.
Penholder Art I use a lot more paint than that but yes. V low likelihood of immediate harm and only then if you eat or inhale the pigment.
Im currently into iconography and extremely worry about these colours.
To make paint we mis egg with pigments this way you are exposed to clouds of dust. I have been wearing face mask when I have to work with them.
If you are working with dry pigments you should have a dust-extractor with a suitable filter as well as masks if working with any toxic pigments - but once mixed into your tempera, there is no dust so they are quite safe.
Spin Doctor, I've been dumping my dirty water outdoors. Now I worry it may harm the smallest of creatures even though most of it is absorbed in the ground. Am I better off pouring it down the sink? I was concerned about contamination. I'm glad you made this video. Thanks.
Coco Williamson Do you have sewer or septic tank? If the former, down the sink with running water is fine. If the latter you would do best to absorb into cat litter and throw into your garbage bin. Septic tanks are very temperamental and one wouldn't want it to go wrong ;)
Spin Doctor, thanks for your prompt response. Down the sink the dirty water will go. I enjoy your videos. They're so informative and thorough. Wishing you much success.
Coco Williamson You're very welcome. The art community on RUclips IS a community - we all help one another and cross-feed etc.
Thank you for all the useful information! Bubble wrap that doesn't pop? That's not right! Marilyn Todd.
I do not think that the biggest problem with toxic colors are for me as a user, but for those that manufacture pigments and paints, in which many people in different parts of the world are working without protective equipment. Another big problem is that paint residues into the environment. Perhaps artist should think of using a less toxic alternative ....
Kristina Hansson There is no less toxic alternative - if one existed it would be in use already. You cannot replicate the colour and granulation of these pigments any other way. It's not possible.
Probably there are non-toxic alternatives that come close enough! I'm not entirely sure but was there not colors used in the past that are not used today?
Kristina Hansson The majority no longer used are because they're fugitive. A tiny number stopped being (widely) used due to toxicity but the remainder are still used because there are simply no alternatives. Paint with a Cad Yellow and then try getting the same effects with a "Cad Yellow (Hue)" - it will look very different.
And if the difference saves someone's health or a piece of nature, I am willing to live with it!
Kristina Hansson it's a good point but the same could be said for any manufacturing.
Hi! Thanks for the video. I wanted to ask you something. What about some antique watercolor paints like vermilion or emerald green? I know that just making the pan wet with a brush makes the paint toxic because of the fumes. I obviously will not work with that kind of paint but I bought an old antique watercolor palette and wanted to ask if it’s ok to clean the leftover paint (like vermilion) with wet paper towel?
What fumes? No watercolour paints or pigments emit any kind of fumes. Even mercury-based pigments don’t. Vermilion isn’t toxic unless you plan to eat it. Skin contact isn’t advised (incase you do end up ingesting it) but it won’t kill you. Mercury sulfides are really not very toxic other than by ingestion and even then, you’d need to eat whole tubes of paint.
@@TheSpinDoctor Do you know something about genuine emerald green watercolor? I know it's toxic even when you wet the paint with a brush. You need to wear a special mask to use it.. just curious.
It contains arsenic.
@The spin Doctor, 2yrs old swallowed some of sediment of pigments from used water cup accidentally. It had all the colors brushed, so water was blackish. I am so concerned of toxic materials in it. Its made in china product. No brand, no ingredients listed. Artist grade paint. Pls guide me if blood test need to check for toxicity ?
Seek medical advice if you do not know what they swallowed (if it was in the past 24h or so) to be on the safe side. But if it was a long while back and nothing has happened, ignore it. The more toxic pigments are the most expensive, and don’t get used in cheap products. There’s no risk from them anyway unless consumed in HUGE quantities.
@@TheSpinDoctor Thank you for the reply. The seller said it had propylene and lead in it. She went loose motion twice on next day. Also had cough. Can lead get excreted in motion/urine ?
Lead absorbs quite badly via the gut but check with your doctor.
Isn't there a difference between Tylenol, which your liver is able to process (within reason), and cadmium, which the body stores as a hard metal? (Maybe I missed this info in the video.) Does the body process the cadmium out (also within reason)?
Irrelevant because even if you eat paint, the Cd is in a form that doesn’t get appreciably absorbed, and it just passes through your gut. You need to eat tens of tubes of paint (70g acrylic ones) before you start absorbing enough to worry about - and as no one does that (I hope), all discussion of paint toxicity is moot - in normal use, you do not become exposed (by which I mean none is absorbed).
Thank you. Would you consider cobalt to be the same situation? I have some of it, but also have that 'perceived' sense of fear about it so those lovely colors just sit on the shelf.
Exactly the same - if anything the Co compounds are even more resilient to dissolution in the gut and are less toxic.
What about manganese blue?
Roxanne Gutierrez Most of it is fake these days but in the rare event you have the real thing, same rules apply: you’d have to eat a lot of paint to do yourself any harm.
I know of a you tubers demonstrater that has tested positive for heavy metal ,how does one deal with that?.
Maria Kellner Depends which one it is and how much there is. Some will leave again in a short time and require nothing. Others need EDTA intravenously and exposure to UV light (mercury). I've worked with mercury, thallium, cadmium, arsenic and even uranium and plutonium for many years at high concentrations and I get monitored every year or so and have never had a positive test - I'm always in or below the normal range. Handling something daily doesn't mean it has ever come into contact with your body of course and given just 0.000001g plutonium would kill me outright in weeks and is like a speck of dust, I know plutonium has never come into contact with my body not ever lol!
Holy crap... I take it the plutonium comment isn't an exaggeration? How is that even possible to work with plutonium at all if just 1 speck of dust size can kill you? Even if you go in some kind of vaccuum chamber what if the speck sticks to your clothes 😨I take it you are dying of radiation with plutonium?
@@guavavodka It’s no exaggeration - 1μg of plutonium is fatal to an adult male by ingestion or inhalation. Easy enough to work with though - you just never come into contact with it. It’s handled in glove-boxes and containers are never opened in the open laboratory. You’re handling it on metal tools held in 5mm thick leaded rubber gauntlets built into the chamber walls and the chamber is under a constant low-pressure so if anything leaks, air is sucked in and nothing can be blown out therefore.
I loved the old winegum...but Bassetts has change them and now they BAD - BAD - BAD candy and that was before Brexit. A Swedish RUclipsr call them and asked it the new Toblerone var coming to Sweden too...and he got answer that this vas a test run just i England. I don't like Toblerone so I can't verify.
I'm not a huge Toblerone fan tbh but I blame everything on Brexit right now!
Thanks for all the information. I love the comparison with Paracetamol (Acetaminophen). That stuff is nasty. I won't let it in my home. Mercury is another one that gets more bad press than it deserves. Yes mercury compounds can be horrible, but elemental mercury isn't that bad. Wish I could still purchase mercury fever thermometers, the new ones you can get are rubbish.
Have you ever filmed your toxicology lecture? The look on your student's faces must be priceless. Beats the old sodium in the beaker of water trick.
K Rye No - I abhor lectures being filmed - my students pay for it so I'm not giving it away free to others, basically.
I hadn't thought of that aspect. Also the privacy issues for your students who might not enjoy being filmed.
K Rye I also don't agree really with there being a way to not turn up but still be able to catch up what you missed by video. Sure if missed on medical grounds and so on that's one thing but there's no other valid reason for missing things. Grown ups have to turn up to work every day. Life skillz ;)
I, too, played with mercury in my hand (about a teaspoon) and it was mesmerizing and fun to play with. Was at work and knew it could be toxic but I wasn't drinking it, nor was I putting some in the brim of a hat to weigh it down so the wind didn't blow it off (referencing "the Mad Hatter" that went crazy from the mercury seeping into his head!)
Wasn't the safest thing I ever did and it did amalgamate (is that the correct term, Rich?) the gold on my watch band!
paulage1art It was mercury used in felting wool and fur into felt for hard that sent hatters mad - usually Hg++ compounds, not the metal.
Hi! What about Sonnet (Russian Brand) Watercolors are they toxic? Please I need an answer to this. Thank you!
Iliveinduniverse 85 There’s absolutely no way to generalise by brand - you need to look at every single pigment they contain. Cobalt, cadmium, mercury and lead-based pigments (cobalt is mostly found in Cobalt Blue, Cobalt Yellow (aka Aureolin), Cadmium in Cadmium Reds, Cadmium Orange and Cadmium Yellows, and lead is only really found in historic-recipe lead whites and Naples Yellow (modern Naples Yellow doesn’t have lead in it) and mercury in Cinnabar) are toxic, however, unless you literally eat your paint in fairly huge quantities (see the video for why!) you’re not going to get ill or die from using them! You can’t even generalise to the specific paint colours I’ve mentioned as there are no laws on labelling and one could label a paint “Cadmium Yellow” when it doesn’t use any cadmium pigments at all - in the USA and EU they are *meant* to label it as “Cadmium Yellow (Hue)” but that isn’t always the case. You’re really looking for pigments like PY35, PR108, PO20, PB28, PY40 - there are others like the cobalt violets (pretty commonly used) as well as the cadmium-mercury pigments and the chromium yellows but you would rarely see those nowadays. In short, unless you’re eating tend to hundreds of grams of paint on a daily basis, stop worrying.
How about traditional vermilion? Or lead paint?
PW1 Lead White (Basic Lead Carbonate) has no lethal dose data for mammals published, but the main routes of entry to the human body are inhalation and ingestion - so "don't eat paint" still applies re: the latter. RE: the former, it's in a wet, gummy vehicle and highly unlikely to raise a dust. When dry, it's still in the vehicle - so paintings should be safe, but don't use it for airbrush work. PW2 Lead Sulfate White has an LD50 of 0.3g/kg in guinea pigs (injected into abdominal cavity, however!), meaning 50% of guinea pigs die at that dose. In an average adult male human, that's still 24g of pigment inhaled or eaten to kill immediately, which is a LOT of tubes of paint! Sure, lead builds up in the body, but the odd microgram here and there inhaled is not going to reach 24g (24,000,000 mcg) very quickly.
PR106 Genuine Vermillion (mercuric sulfide) does not have data available but it'll be >100mg/kg on the basis of similar mercury compounds for which there are data. So 8g to kill an adult male on average - that's still a lot of paint when you consider under 10% of it is pigment by mass usually.
For context, each day you use 1g toothpaste, which is about 0.5mg sodium fluoride - LD50 is about 50mg/kg in mice (ingestion) - which means around 4g in an average human. You're taking in 0.5 - 1mg (0.0005 - 0.001g) twice a day without harm to tissues of the mouth etc - "the dose makes the poison" - you're safely way, way below the lethal dose, just as you are when working with paints.
The Spin Doctor okay. Thanks for the data. I was thinking of getting some Wallace-Seymour vermilion, and a friend of mine freaked and told me a story of a friend of hers who worked with tocix paints and got ALS. I thought it was a bit of an over reaction.
Not least when over 90% of ALS cases are genetic! If you were working (as I do in my day job) with mercuric salts of the soluble kind of organomercury compounds, then you may have cause for concern but if you're careful you're never actually exposed because you don't come into contact with it. I would say with mercury paints it is CRITICAL you wash out your paint water immediately after work and don't leave it standing otherwise growth of the Archaea in the bottom of the jar can methylate the mercury and get it into the air - but really, that would take weeks but it's so easily to forget one's jar!
The Spin Doctor it is, but i try to clean mine regularly. BTW, after looking through your videos, I discovered, in my store of 90s era paints, some Winsor Newton old New Gamboge. Now I am quite careful with it, although I think the Holbein new New Gamboge isn't bad.
Maria Montgomery I prefer Transparent Yellow myself - doesn't have that brownish undertone.
Thanks for sharing this.
Do you have any idea why Blick would put a specific warning on their website against dumping waste with PY150 Nickel Azo Yellow down sinks? They don't warn against this with any other pigment that I've come across, including Cadmiums. They say: "It should be disposed of properly with other hazardous wastes, not washed down the sink. However, the contribution of artist pigments to levels of nickel metal complexes in the environment is almost insignificant."
www.dickblick.com/items/00319-4551/#colorpigments
+Carey McLaughlin I've no idea - it IS totally insignificant and not worth worrying about - I would guess it was written by someone who had looked at the safety data (which are usually designed for handling kg or tonne amounts not fractions of a gram) and panicked...
OK, thanks.
I am wondering how about the wastewater from painting with prof. watercolors shoulden't that be disposed like other toxic waste?
+CA12636 Firstly the amount is tiny - even in lab we'd run those amounts down the drain. Think how much water leaves a town in a day: once it hits the sewage works, it's down to such small concentrations it is harmless to everything.
Thank you for answering, and that's good to know :)
@@TheSpinDoctor Isn't that depending of the wastewater treating facility? Some can filter out everything harmful, others cannot and the rest is usually going into the environment unfiltered.
👍👍👍👍👍
Very interesting. But, you shouldn't compare rats with people. It's more complicated than that. Your numbers may be way off
That is literally how toxicology is done. We use values from other animals and scale them to humans because it works.
If all the greenies are so concerned about the environment , why do they flush their WC and acrylics down the sink ?
Not to mention their own pee which contains all kinds of toxic medication waste
Interesting info but if you're going to quote a Greek philosopher, don't do it in German.
Paracelsus was Swiss not Greek.
Paracelsus' real name was Philippus Aureolus Theophrastus Bombastus von Hohenheim and he was Swiss, he practised medicine in Germany and France. Paracelsus was a pseudonym under which he wrote in the 16th century.
Bugger off Joanna
@@MissMagic I like that name 'Bombastus' ;-)
Excellent! Now I can go back to mistaking dirty paint water for my coffee and not count in dread the number of respirations I have left until I push daisies....lol! ;)