If it weren’t for you, A.P., I’d be talking to an iPhone about each of these books, and though I would’ve done my best, it wouldn’t have been even half as interesting. It’s an honor and a pleasure for me to be part of this.
@@ACriticalDragon Well, you should be an app. Anytime someone feels like having a dose of critical analysis, they could click on their Critical Dragon app. AP the app! 😁
I loved the “show, don’t tell” discussion regarding compassion; not saying “compassion is good,” but rather showing what happens in a world lacking compassion, and in that way proving why it is so vital. In that way, I find the Malazan books are moral without being preachy. There are only three other books I’ve read that are able to send a moral message in such a powerful “show, don’t tell” way: East of Eden, The Brothers Karamazov, and Crime and Punishment. I’m only halfway through Malazan but I can already say that, for me, it belongs in that category.
You did touch on a point when people are told it is work to read these books. Reading is the easy part. Thinking about what you have read is for some work, I find it fun. As for authors who make their intent known and having to read from that perspective for me takes away part of the fun. For example I think Pullman got in his own way later in the series. Kind of makes killing off the author, that AP did elsewhere, impossible.
I suppose there’s an art to an author analyzing their own books that each author must figure out. Fans want to know an author’s thoughts, but saying too much could discourage speculation. It’s interesting to think of it from the author’s perspective.
You both raise very interesting points here. Books that make a reader question their own world view is the highest form of art. We, as readers, learn a lot about ourselves as we evaluate characters and watch how they interact with the world around them. We learn how we want to “be” and how we don’t want to “be” in our own world around us. In other words, we learn compassion. Thank you both for diving below the surface of the novels to highlight this aspect. When people only read at the surface level, I fear they miss out on this and don’t get the opportunity to grow and learn beyond their own very limited and narrow view of not only themselves, but of those in the world around them.
Beautifully said! I agree that literature is a fantastic way to learn the perspectives of others and build empathy. Books can carry us on far journeys and allow us to witness so many lives. Thanks for watching, Valorie!
It's always a pleasure to watch you two discuss Malazan! I loved that you two brought up the archeological parts of House of Chains, and I didn't know there was a duo based on real life. I haven't read the essay you two discussed regarding the character that shall not be named in this video. I thought I had heard it was spoilers for the series, so I wasn't sure if I should look it up. I did hear Steven Erikson discuss his response to cultural relativism in this book and not rationalizing heinous acts. Looking forward to watching the spoiler-discussion!
Thank you, Johanna! It's always fun and enlightening to chat with A.P. I need to read that essay myself. The cultural/moral relativism issue is one that deserves a lot of discussion and thought -- not something with an easy, obvious answer (at least for me), but I like Erikson's stance on it.
My first introduction to Malazan was when I picked up the Forge of Darkness in a shop because it had a nice cover. I then found out it was a prequel trilogy to a 10 book epic fantasy series but thought I would read this one and see how I liked it. I read a few hundred pages and there was one scene where the dialogue was so good I had to stop reading because I didn't want to spoil myself on this epic series. I thought "If I can be so gripped by two people having a late supper chat when I have no idea what is going on then I need to read all the 10 books first to fully appreciate this book". That was in May last year and I'm now on Dust of Dreams. The discussions A P and you are having have been really great refreshers on what happen in these books as well as enriching the experience that I've had with the series. I also think they will be great to share with my brother as he has just finished Gardens of the moon. Thank you for the great videos!
Thanks so much! Having read Forge of Darkness and Fall of Light, which I love, I can’t imagine reading them before reading The Malazan Book of the Fallen, even though they happen so much earlier. Having said that , I’ll add that, in addition to impressing me for their own stories, they really helped me to understand and appreciate The Malazan Book of the Fallen. I’m glad you’re getting some value from our discussions, and I hope your brother will too if he watches!
Yes! House of Chains is definitely a step along the way where some things get a bit clearer, such as the magic. Of course, there are so many more things to discover in the next books. Happy reading!
Just finished HoC, coming back to this just makes we want to read the book again. Can’t wait to watch the spoiler talk for this. Great vid as always Philip!
What an interesting book. I could listen to the campfire conversations of the malazan army for days.... Spoiler The most interesting part for me was adjunct Tavore. She seems so different to Lorn from GotM. She is compassioned and emotional. But a the same time she is so much younger than Lorn was. And now she lost her sister and fatherfigure (Gamit). Maybe she is just on the crossroad to become the Empress tool with the drama shes going trough. Not to imagine what will happen if she ever finds out that she killed Felisin. And maybe that´s the usual way how a competent women or man descends from a strong leader to mindless Adjunct to the emperor/empress in the malazan army. I wonder what a person Lorn was in her early days....
I’m so glad you connected with Tavore, which really bodes well for your experience of the series later on. Like her soldiers, lot of readers aren’t sure what to think of her since she’s a bit of a mystery, but I agree with your take on her wholeheartedly. My best to you as you progress through the series!
oh no it finally happened! You're ahead of me by more than an entire book. I'll come back to this and the spoiler discussion in 15 weeks when I get here.
Iskar is the enthusiastic listener and Philip is the thoughtful listener in Malazan collabs. It must be the jacket xD I just had to think that it's been helping me to know that Karsa goes through a big character development when I read his story the first time.
Ha ha! Thank you! It’s fun to be the listener sometimes, especially when the other person is saying insightful things. The jacket definitely helps me to look more thoughtful, though. Thanks for watching!
I'm about to start House of Chains. I appreciate the talks you and A.P. have for these books. This series is quickly becoming my favorite series. Thank you so very much for all the Malazan content. P.S. - When I finish House of Chains, I will definitely be going to the spoiler video.
I've missed seeing you guys discuss a book! I love the warm, relaxed and jolly tone of the conversation, thanks so much for this! I'm very curious who the duo in the books is 😋 The discussion was great and very valuable, as usual, thank you both! P.S. - I am so happy to hear about the discussion with Ruthan Badd P.P.S. - I am even happier to see that the Sub Press GotM still has not left the screen area, and, even more, it has Deadpool next to it 😍
Thank you, Rox! It’s great to be back discussing the books we love! I drool over those Sub Press books every time I talk to A.P. Mind you, I don’t drool on them because he won’t let me near them! 😁
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy hahaha Philip, always so nice! I think that if A.P. ever will let people in his house to show them those books, the books should be in some locked glass case or something even safer :P No that we'd steal, but, as you say, we might drool :)))
Thanks again for this series Phillip! I look forward to every single Malazan discussion both here and on APs channel:) always a great discussion and I'm constantly amazed at how much can be discussed without spoiling a single thing!
The non-spoiler discussion is always a lot trickier to figure out, at least for me. We have to think ahead for it, whereas the spoiler discussion carries us along without much planning. Both are fun, though (for me, at least), and each serves a purpose. Thanks so much for watching and commenting!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Thank you for such consistent and interesting content ! Not an easy combination to find anywhere, I love that you guys have to stop yourselves talking for longer at times :) there's just so much to cover !
It was taking me soooo long to get through this book (not because I didn't like it - just a bit of a slump). Then I saw you post this video and it inspired me to finish it off last night so I could watch it! Thanks for the motivation and I love these videos!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Thanks! I just finished Memories of Ice last week and what a masterpiece. I tried reading other books before going on to House of Chains but I just could not...
Great talk, the jacket made all the difference 😂 One of the things Erikson highlights beautifully in the series is the difference between internal and external motivations and motivators. And how, yes some individuals can come to see abhorrent behavior as normal. Some grow beyond it, others embrace the darkness willingly or unwillingly. Can't wait for the spoiler talk, and all the other Malazan content you said is coming 🤓
Thanks, Rob! I knew A.P. was needing that jacket all along. I’m glad we got it sorted. Beautifully said about the internal and external motivations and motivators. We’ll keep the videos coming!
Thank you both for this wonderful video! It's a shining light in a week of murk for Malaztube. As always, your conversations are full of insight, candor, and good humour. Keep it up fellas!
I’m 240 pages in HoC and I’m absolutely loving the single pov, definitely a nice break from the first 3 books. This style is great for Gardens of the Moon, started to struggle with the changing pov’s in Memories but I knew before hand that HoC was single pov for a good part of the book and I looked forward to that. So now that I’m onto book 4 it’s even better than I was expecting so far. Can’t wait to see where this book goes!!
I came here, donned my jacket, sat down and listened avidly ... and left knowing how to craft flint-headed arrows. Thank you for another fun Malazan discussion ( plus more naughty boy references from AP .... Kallor will be pleased ! )
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I always enjoy listening to your thoughts and opinions on books, no matter which book it is! Hopefully I can keep up with you guys so I can continue to listen in and finish the 10 main books by the end of the year
Falling further and further behind... still enjoying MoI. These spoiler-free videos are such teasers for the your discussions on AP’s channel. Thanks 🙏.
We did throw out a few teasers there, didn't we? Spoiler free discussions are challenging to put together, whereas the spoiler filled ones almost create themselves along the way. Our discussions will always be waiting for when you're ready, Francois!
As always, enjoyed your conversation so much! Cant wait for the spoiler talk, House of Chains is definitely one of my favourites, although as Im reading on, it is starting to get increasingly difficult to rank the books. They re all so good.
That's the truth! Whenever someone asks me which book in the series is my favorite, I sit there for for a while with my mouth hanging open, struggling to answer. I usually name about four books in response. Thanks so much for watching!
Hi Philip! Just finished House of Chains, after having to take a small break from the emotional onslaught of Memories of Ice. LOL. I absolutely loved HoC and it’s my favorite of the 4 novels I’ve read so far. Book 1 of HoC was particularly enjoyable for me, and I’m wondering if you could recommend some of these other works you reference (in addition to the Conan books you mentioned), that are similar in style, and possibly served as inspiration for this part of the HoC. Would love to read and explore some of these pulp stories before diving back into Malazan and tackling Midnight Tides.
Hello, Leroy! You're in a distinguished minority of Malazan fans who pick House of Chains as a favorite among the ten books. I think it's an amazing read too. As for similar books besides Conan, I'm pretty A.P. would know more titles than I do, particularly among the older pulp fantasy. A Princess of Mars by Edgar Rice Burroughs is often cited as one. Slightly more modern might be something like Legend by David Gemmell. And among modern fantasy, there's Joe Abercrombie's First Law books and Mark Lawrence's Broken Empire and Red Queen's War books. I haven't read much of the pulp stuff since I came into fantasy more via the Tolkien route, but I wish you the best in finding more similar reading!
Awesome! I’m happy our discussions are enjoyable for you. House of Chains is not often cited as a favorite, at least in my experience, but I love it. The ending especially, with the meeting of sisters, is so masterfully written.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy maybe it's because the whole series is starting to click for me now? Again, first time reader so I'm sure things might change
As always great conversation and now I need to wait for the more detailed one with the spoilers. Just a question I want to raise for the last part you both talked about getting out of your culture when you meet a difrent culture and to be able to recognize the wrong in your culture but at the end of the day identify something as good or bad is anchored in the way you were raised and the culture you came from. A lot of historical figures and catalyst figures during history are praised just for their ability to recognize something and change the culture and history with it. But as we all know the winners write history so how can you say something is really right or wrong?
That’s an excellent question! Strip away all the culture and the socialization, and what are you left with in terms of a basis for morality? Many people would turn to belief in some higher power (God) to answer this question. I’m afraid I don’t have a satisfactory answer except that I find life more meaningful and fulfilling when I behave in a manner that is moral. Not the best answer, but that’s what I’ve got right now.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy so as a Jew I find the need to believe in higher party as part of my culture and while some of the Jewish laws where moral some of them from our time PoV do look amoral (like animal sacrifice for example) but then again moral can change again and in a few yrs suddenly things are different again
@@shmuelshtessman4906 Very true! Morals change according to time and culture. Do all morals change? Some seem pretty universal, like don’t murder. But even there things can be nuanced since some cultures have preached that murder is fine under certain circumstances.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy and then again if murder is so bad and we all acknowledge that why there are still wars? Isn't that murders just on a bigger scale? As you said in certain circumstances most things are ok. And even values like compassion can be abuse for bad things is that make it amoral or is the circumstances are what make it bad or wrong. Anyway at the end of the day we all need to find in ourselves the right values that worth pursuing and try to make the world better but knowing that we may be mistaken or misunderstood
I know AP has already had a character based off of him in one of Erikson's novellas, but I would love to see you two as a duo in one of his forthcoming books. Also, thanks for making this video!
I loved the archeology and history in deadhouse gates, it was why I loved mappo and Icarium. So the fact that this book goes further into this is really exciting
The layers of archeology and history are always lurking beneath the surface in Malazan, and I’m like you - I love that stuff! It’s one of the main reasons I enjoy fantasy.
I read a MBOTF book, then I come here and watch these videos. Just brilliant. I'm just about to start Midnight Tides and I've heard it's very different than what's come before...
I’m glad you’re enjoying the books and the chats! Midnight Tides does indeed take you places you’ve not yet seen in the Malazan world. All the best, Gareth!
I'm slowly catching up - I think I'll finish MOI by the end of this weekend and then I'm hell-bent on knocking out HOC before you release your videos on Midnight Tides. At this rate, I think I'll be caught up by *checks calculations* Dust of Dreams. As always a lovely video.
I am only thru MoI at this point, but I like that MBotF can be enjoyed from both a critical analysis and also from just an awesome story. I read all sorts of books and I enjoy my light pulpy Drizzt books for what they are. I did a hybrid of audio/print for the first 3, but after listening to SE talk about slowing down the reader for these books, I may do HoC by print only. I am champing at the bit to get started...but want to throw in Fafhrd and Gray Mouser before. I've heard the philosophical criticisms of Goodkind, but have only read the first novel. I am curious to see how objectivism comes across in narrative, although I don't particularly agree in it (my background is in psychology). Great discussion and it only makes me want to speed thru Leiber so I can get back to Erickson.
I’ve never listened to audiobooks, but I don’t think I have the necessary focus to use them for Malazan. Perhaps after I’ve read them three or four times? Best wishes with all that reading!
Thanks professor fireballs, you're picking up my malazan fix where iskaar jarak abandoned all of us, if only you did chapter by chapter stuff. I loved doing a chapter then watching his recap before moving on to get a refresh, as those chapters get to be super massive (see the final chapter of memories of ice, took me almost 2 hours to read haha) and i need a day or two until I can read the next one. If you wanna do chapter by chapter for the whole series, from memories of on, I'd be forever grateful
Thanks, Sean! I don't think a chapter by chapter recap is in the cards, at least not from the two of us, but you never know. In the meantime, I'm glad these discussions are helpful. Cheers, buddy!
Now I can’t watch these most excellent videos because I’ve been outpaced in my reading. Very disappointing. Oh well I’ll be back to watch when I catch up. Thanks for the great content.
Awesome! Congrats on finishing. It would seem you're a Seven Cities fan so far. No arguments from me since I love those books! I hope you'll enjoy Midnight Tides when you get to it.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy thanks so much for doing these discussions. I didn’t really get heavily into reading until like 2 years ago, and Malazan was really my first big fantasy commitment. I’ve completely fallen in love with the series but I must admit there’s a lot of stuff that goes over my head, so these videos help a lot. I’m on book 6 but I already want to start rereading it lol
Erikson continues to amaze me, I enjoyed Gardens of the Moon but Deadhouse Gates onwards I'm falling in love with this series. Of the two major storylines so far I do slightly prefer Seven Cities but only slightly. Can't wait for Midnight Tides. I'd go as far to say House of Chains is my favourite in the series so far, probably.
It’s fantastic to hear how the series has grabbed you! This reread has been magical for me, and I’m happy whenever I see anyone connecting with Malazan in a similar way. Midnight Tides introduces my favorite Malazan character, by the way!
I have 200 pages left of the book and after MOI I am so scared of that impending convergence 🥲 but I am also entirely addicted to this series now, so I guess pain is part of me now.
I’m afraid so! Those huge convergences do have a tendency to inflict casualties, don’t they? Like you, though, I find myself unable to put the books down. I can’t say “happy reading,” per se, but I wish you a beautiful reading experience!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Oh, wasn’t it just! Finished it last night and while it wasn’t as traumatising as MOI, it was certainly tragic. But also very beautiful. There was that line at the very end: “The heart is neither given nor stolen. The heart surrenders” - just one example of the many beautiful lines and ideas in this book.
@@irinaj8716 Yes, that’s true - so many beautiful lines. That’s another reason it takes me so long to read a Malazan book: I’m always lingering over the sentences that catch my fancy! I’m so glad you enjoyed it.
Another entertaining discussion. MalazTubers are picking themselves up and marching onwards, like the dogged Bridgeburners and Bonehunters they are.... Btw, I have only 350 pages to go in 'The Crippled God', so I have been forging ahead, too. What a journey!
@Johan, because I see you here: I got a notification that you commented on one of my videos but YT doesn't want to show me the comment...sorry that I couldn't reply!
@@CounsellorofMoonsSpawn Hello, Counsellor. I know the video you are referring to... I deleted the comment, not a thing I often do, so YT cannot show it. After posting it and reading it back, I realized it was too negative about a certain aspect of MBotF, born out of a momentary frustration with TcG, and didn't accurately represent my overall feelings about the series. So I deleted it.
@@JohanHerrenberg Ah ok, thanks for the info! YT has been eating comments on my videos in the past and it bugs me when I can't reply after somebody took time out of their day to comment...
@@CounsellorofMoonsSpawn I can well understand your frustration! Good luck with your great channel and the comments! I have all but finished the series, so your more spoilery stuff will soon become available to me...
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Great video Philip. AP is really good at getting you on the hook for the spoiler video. Can't wait for the continued discussion and the Ruthan Badd video. Have a great night.
@@sethulakovic3722 Thanks, Seth! Yes, teasing for the spoiler video is a bit of an art. I’m really looking forward to chatting with A.P. and Ruthan Badd!
Is high house light or high house of darkness in need of a leper? I could fill that role admirably. Or is it just the House of Chains that has a leper (though, Karsa may or not have ended him).
Sorry! It’s just the House of Chains that features that particular role. If all the other Houses had lepers too, things would fall apart. Piece by piece.
Hah, speaking of subverting expectations - and I'd bet you touch on this in spoilers - but boy does the finale subvert what you've since come to expect from these books. Erickson subverting himself subverting other fantasy XD
Perhaps you were using a Deck of Dragons to predict our spoiler talk? The finale does indeed come up under those terms. Inception levels of subversion, here!
In the audiobook series some genius decided to change narrators. Bad call. This ruined the series on that platform. One of the worst narrators ever. Must have found him in the unemployment line.
Hi Philip, it is always a genuine pleasure to discuss these books with you.
Thanks again for organising these discussions.
If it weren’t for you, A.P., I’d be talking to an iPhone about each of these books, and though I would’ve done my best, it wouldn’t have been even half as interesting. It’s an honor and a pleasure for me to be part of this.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy So you swapped an IP (i-Phone) for an AP??? Are we now saying that I am basically a phone app??? :) :) :)
@@ACriticalDragon Well, you should be an app. Anytime someone feels like having a dose of critical analysis, they could click on their Critical Dragon app. AP the app! 😁
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Yes, but you wouldn't be as well lit. 😁
AP has finally ascended to jackethood!! Congrats AP 😂
🤣🤣🤣 He has indeed - The gods had best beware!
High House Jacket ... Philip is the King and AP the Knight Tailor.
@@djsuth7727 Witness!
@@djsuth7727 Ah, a new House! Will the Master of the Deck sanction it, or will we be playing outside the rules?
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy The floating table with an image of your face on the underside suggests High House Jacket is already in play ....
I loved the “show, don’t tell” discussion regarding compassion; not saying “compassion is good,” but rather showing what happens in a world lacking compassion, and in that way proving why it is so vital.
In that way, I find the Malazan books are moral without being preachy. There are only three other books I’ve read that are able to send a moral message in such a powerful “show, don’t tell” way: East of Eden, The Brothers Karamazov, and Crime and Punishment. I’m only halfway through Malazan but I can already say that, for me, it belongs in that category.
Well said! Erikson does a brilliant job of “showing” compassion, not “telling” it, and his message is all the more powerful for it.
You did touch on a point when people are told it is work to read these books. Reading is the easy part. Thinking about what you have read is for some work, I find it fun.
As for authors who make their intent known and having to read from that perspective for me takes away part of the fun. For example I think Pullman got in his own way later in the series. Kind of makes killing off the author, that AP did elsewhere, impossible.
I suppose there’s an art to an author analyzing their own books that each author must figure out. Fans want to know an author’s thoughts, but saying too much could discourage speculation. It’s interesting to think of it from the author’s perspective.
You both raise very interesting points here. Books that make a reader question their own world view is the highest form of art. We, as readers, learn a lot about ourselves as we evaluate characters and watch how they interact with the world around them. We learn how we want to “be” and how we don’t want to “be” in our own world around us. In other words, we learn compassion. Thank you both for diving below the surface of the novels to highlight this aspect. When people only read at the surface level, I fear they miss out on this and don’t get the opportunity to grow and learn beyond their own very limited and narrow view of not only themselves, but of those in the world around them.
Beautifully said! I agree that literature is a fantastic way to learn the perspectives of others and build empathy. Books can carry us on far journeys and allow us to witness so many lives. Thanks for watching, Valorie!
the motif of chains throughout this book is so cool
And it's a motif that you'll find throughout the series too!
How to make a spoiler-free discussion interesting 101. Great discussion, peerless breakdowns as always.
It's definitely a challenge to make a spoiler-free discussion interesting, so we appreciate your comment very much. Thank you for watching!
It's always a pleasure to watch you two discuss Malazan! I loved that you two brought up the archeological parts of House of Chains, and I didn't know there was a duo based on real life. I haven't read the essay you two discussed regarding the character that shall not be named in this video. I thought I had heard it was spoilers for the series, so I wasn't sure if I should look it up. I did hear Steven Erikson discuss his response to cultural relativism in this book and not rationalizing heinous acts. Looking forward to watching the spoiler-discussion!
Thank you, Johanna! It's always fun and enlightening to chat with A.P. I need to read that essay myself. The cultural/moral relativism issue is one that deserves a lot of discussion and thought -- not something with an easy, obvious answer (at least for me), but I like Erikson's stance on it.
My first introduction to Malazan was when I picked up the Forge of Darkness in a shop because it had a nice cover. I then found out it was a prequel trilogy to a 10 book epic fantasy series but thought I would read this one and see how I liked it. I read a few hundred pages and there was one scene where the dialogue was so good I had to stop reading because I didn't want to spoil myself on this epic series. I thought "If I can be so gripped by two people having a late supper chat when I have no idea what is going on then I need to read all the 10 books first to fully appreciate this book".
That was in May last year and I'm now on Dust of Dreams.
The discussions A P and you are having have been really great refreshers on what happen in these books as well as enriching the experience that I've had with the series. I also think they will be great to share with my brother as he has just finished Gardens of the moon. Thank you for the great videos!
Thanks so much! Having read Forge of Darkness and Fall of Light, which I love, I can’t imagine reading them before reading The Malazan Book of the Fallen, even though they happen so much earlier. Having said that , I’ll add that, in addition to impressing me for their own stories, they really helped me to understand and appreciate The Malazan Book of the Fallen. I’m glad you’re getting some value from our discussions, and I hope your brother will too if he watches!
I’m on this book right now I’m liking how it’s putting together parts from the past books and explaining some stuff!!!
Yes! House of Chains is definitely a step along the way where some things get a bit clearer, such as the magic. Of course, there are so many more things to discover in the next books. Happy reading!
Just finished HoC, coming back to this just makes we want to read the book again. Can’t wait to watch the spoiler talk for this. Great vid as always Philip!
@@thephantomcomposer5833 I’m so glad that you enjoyed HoC! Best wishes for Midnight Tides!
Love coming back to watch your guys’ discussions as I finish these books!
@@ColinsCornerYT I’m so glad you enjoy the discussions, Colin! My best to you as you continue in Malazan!
What an interesting book. I could listen to the campfire conversations of the malazan army for days....
Spoiler
The most interesting part for me was adjunct Tavore. She seems so different to Lorn from GotM. She is compassioned and emotional. But a the same time she is so much younger than Lorn was. And now she lost her sister and fatherfigure (Gamit). Maybe she is just on the crossroad to become the Empress tool with the drama shes going trough. Not to imagine what will happen if she ever finds out that she killed Felisin. And maybe that´s the usual way how a competent women or man descends from a strong leader to mindless Adjunct to the emperor/empress in the malazan army. I wonder what a person Lorn was in her early days....
I’m so glad you connected with Tavore, which really bodes well for your experience of the series later on. Like her soldiers, lot of readers aren’t sure what to think of her since she’s a bit of a mystery, but I agree with your take on her wholeheartedly. My best to you as you progress through the series!
oh no it finally happened! You're ahead of me by more than an entire book. I'll come back to this and the spoiler discussion in 15 weeks when I get here.
We’ll be waiting here for you!
Iskar is the enthusiastic listener and Philip is the thoughtful listener in Malazan collabs. It must be the jacket xD
I just had to think that it's been helping me to know that Karsa goes through a big character development when I read his story the first time.
Ha ha! Thank you! It’s fun to be the listener sometimes, especially when the other person is saying insightful things. The jacket definitely helps me to look more thoughtful, though. Thanks for watching!
I'm about to start House of Chains. I appreciate the talks you and A.P. have for these books. This series is quickly becoming my favorite series. Thank you so very much for all the Malazan content.
P.S. - When I finish House of Chains, I will definitely be going to the spoiler video.
I’m glad you’re enjoying the series and that the videos are helpful!
I've missed seeing you guys discuss a book! I love the warm, relaxed and jolly tone of the conversation, thanks so much for this!
I'm very curious who the duo in the books is 😋
The discussion was great and very valuable, as usual, thank you both!
P.S. - I am so happy to hear about the discussion with Ruthan Badd
P.P.S. - I am even happier to see that the Sub Press GotM still has not left the screen area, and, even more, it has Deadpool next to it 😍
Thank you, Rox! It’s great to be back discussing the books we love! I drool over those Sub Press books every time I talk to A.P. Mind you, I don’t drool on them because he won’t let me near them! 😁
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy hahaha Philip, always so nice! I think that if A.P. ever will let people in his house to show them those books, the books should be in some locked glass case or something even safer :P No that we'd steal, but, as you say, we might drool :)))
Thanks again for this series Phillip! I look forward to every single Malazan discussion both here and on APs channel:) always a great discussion and I'm constantly amazed at how much can be discussed without spoiling a single thing!
The non-spoiler discussion is always a lot trickier to figure out, at least for me. We have to think ahead for it, whereas the spoiler discussion carries us along without much planning. Both are fun, though (for me, at least), and each serves a purpose. Thanks so much for watching and commenting!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Thank you for such consistent and interesting content ! Not an easy combination to find anywhere, I love that you guys have to stop yourselves talking for longer at times :) there's just so much to cover !
@@callum8755 That’s the truth!
It's been a good Monday. New videos by A critical dragon AND Philip+AP.
Cheers!
:)
Good times ahead, my friend!
It was taking me soooo long to get through this book (not because I didn't like it - just a bit of a slump). Then I saw you post this video and it inspired me to finish it off last night so I could watch it! Thanks for the motivation and I love these videos!
Aww, thanks, Maximilian! I’m glad our discussion was motivating for you, and I appreciate the comment very much!
I look forward to these videos each month. I’m currently on House of Chains and loving it.
I'm glad you're enjoying our discussions! Best wishes with House of Chains -- it's another awesome read!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Thanks! I just finished Memories of Ice last week and what a masterpiece. I tried reading other books before going on to House of Chains but I just could not...
@@mark-shieldanvilsstudy3006 I know that feeling!
Great talk, the jacket made all the difference 😂
One of the things Erikson highlights beautifully in the series is the difference between internal and external motivations and motivators. And how, yes some individuals can come to see abhorrent behavior as normal. Some grow beyond it, others embrace the darkness willingly or unwillingly.
Can't wait for the spoiler talk, and all the other Malazan content you said is coming 🤓
Thanks, Rob! I knew A.P. was needing that jacket all along. I’m glad we got it sorted. Beautifully said about the internal and external motivations and motivators. We’ll keep the videos coming!
Thank you both for this wonderful video! It's a shining light in a week of murk for Malaztube. As always, your conversations are full of insight, candor, and good humour. Keep it up fellas!
Thank you! We hope to continue putting out discussions and keep things positive. We appreciate you watching and commenting!
I’m 240 pages in HoC and I’m absolutely loving the single pov, definitely a nice break from the first 3 books. This style is great for Gardens of the Moon, started to struggle with the changing pov’s in Memories but I knew before hand that HoC was single pov for a good part of the book and I looked forward to that. So now that I’m onto book 4 it’s even better than I was expecting so far. Can’t wait to see where this book goes!!
@@jch5150 Enjoy your time with Karsa and company!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Thanks Phillip!!
I came here, donned my jacket, sat down and listened avidly ... and left knowing how to craft flint-headed arrows. Thank you for another fun Malazan discussion ( plus more naughty boy references from AP .... Kallor will be pleased ! )
Jacket-donning required to attend to this discussion! But you can take off the jacket while making your flint arrows if you must.
Love these videos, they are very helpful while I’m reading through the books. I’m about a third of the way through House of Chains and I’m loving it
I'm so glad you find our discussions helpful -- it really helps us to hear that, so thank you!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I always enjoy listening to your thoughts and opinions on books, no matter which book it is! Hopefully I can keep up with you guys so I can continue to listen in and finish the 10 main books by the end of the year
@@Bodester24 Best wishes with the reading!
Falling further and further behind... still enjoying MoI. These spoiler-free videos are such teasers for the your discussions on AP’s channel. Thanks 🙏.
We did throw out a few teasers there, didn't we? Spoiler free discussions are challenging to put together, whereas the spoiler filled ones almost create themselves along the way. Our discussions will always be waiting for when you're ready, Francois!
As always, enjoyed your conversation so much! Cant wait for the spoiler talk, House of Chains is definitely one of my favourites, although as Im reading on, it is starting to get increasingly difficult to rank the books. They re all so good.
That's the truth! Whenever someone asks me which book in the series is my favorite, I sit there for for a while with my mouth hanging open, struggling to answer. I usually name about four books in response. Thanks so much for watching!
Hi Philip! Just finished House of Chains, after having to take a small break from the emotional onslaught of Memories of Ice. LOL. I absolutely loved HoC and it’s my favorite of the 4 novels I’ve read so far. Book 1 of HoC was particularly enjoyable for me, and I’m wondering if you could recommend some of these other works you reference (in addition to the Conan books you mentioned), that are similar in style, and possibly served as inspiration for this part of the HoC. Would love to read and explore some of these pulp stories before diving back into Malazan and tackling Midnight Tides.
Hello, Leroy! You're in a distinguished minority of Malazan fans who pick House of Chains as a favorite among the ten books. I think it's an amazing read too. As for similar books besides Conan, I'm pretty A.P. would know more titles than I do, particularly among the older pulp fantasy. A Princess of Mars by Edgar Rice Burroughs is often cited as one. Slightly more modern might be something like Legend by David Gemmell. And among modern fantasy, there's Joe Abercrombie's First Law books and Mark Lawrence's Broken Empire and Red Queen's War books. I haven't read much of the pulp stuff since I came into fantasy more via the Tolkien route, but I wish you the best in finding more similar reading!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy thanks Philip! Will check out these titles, and will ask A.P. about some of the older pulp fantasy as well!
Heading over to the spoiler talk. Love these talks. This has been my favorite book so far of the series, at least as a first time reader.
Awesome! I’m happy our discussions are enjoyable for you. House of Chains is not often cited as a favorite, at least in my experience, but I love it. The ending especially, with the meeting of sisters, is so masterfully written.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy maybe it's because the whole series is starting to click for me now? Again, first time reader so I'm sure things might change
@@TeamSnitchSeeker As long as you’re enjoying the series, I think it’s great!
As always great conversation and now I need to wait for the more detailed one with the spoilers.
Just a question I want to raise for the last part you both talked about getting out of your culture when you meet a difrent culture and to be able to recognize the wrong in your culture but at the end of the day identify something as good or bad is anchored in the way you were raised and the culture you came from.
A lot of historical figures and catalyst figures during history are praised just for their ability to recognize something and change the culture and history with it. But as we all know the winners write history so how can you say something is really right or wrong?
That’s an excellent question! Strip away all the culture and the socialization, and what are you left with in terms of a basis for morality? Many people would turn to belief in some higher power (God) to answer this question. I’m afraid I don’t have a satisfactory answer except that I find life more meaningful and fulfilling when I behave in a manner that is moral. Not the best answer, but that’s what I’ve got right now.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy so as a Jew I find the need to believe in higher party as part of my culture and while some of the Jewish laws where moral some of them from our time PoV do look amoral (like animal sacrifice for example) but then again moral can change again and in a few yrs suddenly things are different again
@@shmuelshtessman4906 Very true! Morals change according to time and culture. Do all morals change? Some seem pretty universal, like don’t murder. But even there things can be nuanced since some cultures have preached that murder is fine under certain circumstances.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy and then again if murder is so bad and we all acknowledge that why there are still wars? Isn't that murders just on a bigger scale? As you said in certain circumstances most things are ok.
And even values like compassion can be abuse for bad things is that make it amoral or is the circumstances are what make it bad or wrong.
Anyway at the end of the day we all need to find in ourselves the right values that worth pursuing and try to make the world better but knowing that we may be mistaken or misunderstood
@@shmuelshtessman4906 Exactly right!
I know AP has already had a character based off of him in one of Erikson's novellas, but I would love to see you two as a duo in one of his forthcoming books. Also, thanks for making this video!
Ha ha! Thanks! As long as said duo wears appropriate jackets. I appreciate you watching and commenting very much!
I loved the archeology and history in deadhouse gates, it was why I loved mappo and Icarium. So the fact that this book goes further into this is really exciting
The layers of archeology and history are always lurking beneath the surface in Malazan, and I’m like you - I love that stuff! It’s one of the main reasons I enjoy fantasy.
I read a MBOTF book, then I come here and watch these videos. Just brilliant. I'm just about to start Midnight Tides and I've heard it's very different than what's come before...
I’m glad you’re enjoying the books and the chats! Midnight Tides does indeed take you places you’ve not yet seen in the Malazan world. All the best, Gareth!
Two intelligent guys discussing my favourite book series.... happy days...
Thanks so much! Glad you enjoy our chat!
I'm slowly catching up - I think I'll finish MOI by the end of this weekend and then I'm hell-bent on knocking out HOC before you release your videos on Midnight Tides. At this rate, I think I'll be caught up by *checks calculations* Dust of Dreams. As always a lovely video.
Awesome! A veteran like you could swoop in anytime, of course, but it’s great to think that you’re reading along with us.
I am only thru MoI at this point, but I like that MBotF can be enjoyed from both a critical analysis and also from just an awesome story. I read all sorts of books and I enjoy my light pulpy Drizzt books for what they are. I did a hybrid of audio/print for the first 3, but after listening to SE talk about slowing down the reader for these books, I may do HoC by print only. I am champing at the bit to get started...but want to throw in Fafhrd and Gray Mouser before. I've heard the philosophical criticisms of Goodkind, but have only read the first novel. I am curious to see how objectivism comes across in narrative, although I don't particularly agree in it (my background is in psychology). Great discussion and it only makes me want to speed thru Leiber so I can get back to Erickson.
I’ve never listened to audiobooks, but I don’t think I have the necessary focus to use them for Malazan. Perhaps after I’ve read them three or four times? Best wishes with all that reading!
Thanks professor fireballs, you're picking up my malazan fix where iskaar jarak abandoned all of us, if only you did chapter by chapter stuff. I loved doing a chapter then watching his recap before moving on to get a refresh, as those chapters get to be super massive (see the final chapter of memories of ice, took me almost 2 hours to read haha) and i need a day or two until I can read the next one.
If you wanna do chapter by chapter for the whole series, from memories of on, I'd be forever grateful
Thanks, Sean! I don't think a chapter by chapter recap is in the cards, at least not from the two of us, but you never know. In the meantime, I'm glad these discussions are helpful. Cheers, buddy!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I miss iskaar. I hope he's okay
@@seanhalpin87 Same here. It’s been a long time since I heard from him. He’s a genuinely kind person.
awesome insights, you both certainly have a ph.d in awesomeness! not forget to mention that AP knows stuff!
Thank you, Javad! A.P. is a well of knowledge, and it’s also just fun to discuss books with him.
Now I can’t watch these most excellent videos because I’ve been outpaced in my reading. Very disappointing. Oh well I’ll be back to watch when I catch up. Thanks for the great content.
We’ll be waiting for you when you’re ready!
Just finished! Such a great book. Deadhouse Gates and House of Chains are my favorite so far.
Awesome! Congrats on finishing. It would seem you're a Seven Cities fan so far. No arguments from me since I love those books! I hope you'll enjoy Midnight Tides when you get to it.
Now just eagerly waiting for the spoiler discussion
Should be out soon! I suspect tomorrow, but A.P. could always surprise me. Thanks for watching!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy thanks so much for doing these discussions. I didn’t really get heavily into reading until like 2 years ago, and Malazan was really my first big fantasy commitment. I’ve completely fallen in love with the series but I must admit there’s a lot of stuff that goes over my head, so these videos help a lot.
I’m on book 6 but I already want to start rereading it lol
@@zahven I’m so glad our discussions have been helpful to you!
Erikson continues to amaze me, I enjoyed Gardens of the Moon but Deadhouse Gates onwards I'm falling in love with this series. Of the two major storylines so far I do slightly prefer Seven Cities but only slightly. Can't wait for Midnight Tides. I'd go as far to say House of Chains is my favourite in the series so far, probably.
It’s fantastic to hear how the series has grabbed you! This reread has been magical for me, and I’m happy whenever I see anyone connecting with Malazan in a similar way. Midnight Tides introduces my favorite Malazan character, by the way!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy that's amazing, can't wait to meet this character
I'm reading memories of ice right now and I'm loving it can't wait to read this book in August 😊🙂🌟
I’m delighted to hear you’re enjoying Memories of Ice, Cynthia. I think it’s amazing, and Erikson continues to deliver!
I have 200 pages left of the book and after MOI I am so scared of that impending convergence 🥲 but I am also entirely addicted to this series now, so I guess pain is part of me now.
I’m afraid so! Those huge convergences do have a tendency to inflict casualties, don’t they? Like you, though, I find myself unable to put the books down. I can’t say “happy reading,” per se, but I wish you a beautiful reading experience!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Oh, wasn’t it just! Finished it last night and while it wasn’t as traumatising as MOI, it was certainly tragic. But also very beautiful. There was that line at the very end: “The heart is neither given nor stolen. The heart surrenders” - just one example of the many beautiful lines and ideas in this book.
@@irinaj8716 Yes, that’s true - so many beautiful lines. That’s another reason it takes me so long to read a Malazan book: I’m always lingering over the sentences that catch my fancy! I’m so glad you enjoyed it.
Another entertaining discussion. MalazTubers are picking themselves up and marching onwards, like the dogged Bridgeburners and Bonehunters they are.... Btw, I have only 350 pages to go in 'The Crippled God', so I have been forging ahead, too. What a journey!
I love it!! Even Raraku won’t defeat us as we march onward. Congratulations, Johan, as you near the completion of this magnificent series!!!
@Johan, because I see you here: I got a notification that you commented on one of my videos but YT doesn't want to show me the comment...sorry that I couldn't reply!
@@CounsellorofMoonsSpawn Hello, Counsellor. I know the video you are referring to... I deleted the comment, not a thing I often do, so YT cannot show it. After posting it and reading it back, I realized it was too negative about a certain aspect of MBotF, born out of a momentary frustration with TcG, and didn't accurately represent my overall feelings about the series. So I deleted it.
@@JohanHerrenberg Ah ok, thanks for the info! YT has been eating comments on my videos in the past and it bugs me when I can't reply after somebody took time out of their day to comment...
@@CounsellorofMoonsSpawn I can well understand your frustration! Good luck with your great channel and the comments! I have all but finished the series, so your more spoilery stuff will soon become available to me...
Adding this for the youtube overlords - will return at the pace of Mikes Book Reviews readalong
Awesome! We’ll be waiting for you!
Great video u guys are really good.
Thank you! We’re having a lot of fun discussing the series!
I am here for the formal wear arms race. The first one to monocle and cravat wins. 😁
How about a sweater vest inside a tweed jacket?
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Great video Philip. AP is really good at getting you on the hook for the spoiler video. Can't wait for the continued discussion and the Ruthan Badd video. Have a great night.
@@sethulakovic3722 Thanks, Seth! Yes, teasing for the spoiler video is a bit of an art. I’m really looking forward to chatting with A.P. and Ruthan Badd!
Is high house light or high house of darkness in need of a leper? I could fill that role admirably. Or is it just the House of Chains that has a leper (though, Karsa may or not have ended him).
Sorry! It’s just the House of Chains that features that particular role. If all the other Houses had lepers too, things would fall apart. Piece by piece.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy fair enough. It's a lifetime of servitude to the crippled god for me then.
@@demidrek-heyward Best wishes with it! I hear he gives his employees a decent dental plan.
Goodkind doesn’t deserve a mention in any respect whatsoever.
Can’t say I’m a fan, but some people love Sword of Truth.
Came here to WITNESS this chat.
Awesome! Karsa would be proud. And thanks!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Absolutely! Fantastic video!
Hah, speaking of subverting expectations - and I'd bet you touch on this in spoilers - but boy does the finale subvert what you've since come to expect from these books. Erickson subverting himself subverting other fantasy XD
Perhaps you were using a Deck of Dragons to predict our spoiler talk? The finale does indeed come up under those terms. Inception levels of subversion, here!
In the audiobook series some genius decided to change narrators. Bad call. This ruined the series on that platform. One of the worst narrators ever. Must have found him in the unemployment line.