@Creative Sound Lab I'm a bit late to the party, but just wanted to say, "Great Demo, Ryan"! Thanks for the time in putting this together. Lately I've been using my Samar VL-37A ribbons as stereo OH's, then just blending in some kick & snare close mics. I do love the Omnis as well though. I tend to mic & mix for that "sounds like my drums in the room/accuracy" though. Thanks again.
Wow I really like the omni pattern in this example. Sounds so big and full, especially the low end of the kick. Thanks for doing this series. It's pretty eye opening.
Very interesting. In the first, non-compressed set of files I found the cardioid still best, as Omni sounded too much like a room mic, and the figure of 8 seemed bland, cutting out a lot of the cymbals (which could be useful to tame cymbals). The figure of 8 improved to a usable tone with compression, and the cardioid didn't change all too much, but Omni sounded great. Huge low end, not too powerful snare, plenty of cymbals. Some could say it all mushed together a little too much but I'm pretty impressed. It'd be interesting to hear how that comp'd omni works in a mix context!
Great video! But I think you're wrong about proximity effect. When you go far away from the microphone proximity effect makes things sound thinner. Thats why the omni sounds fuller than the cardiod and the figure-8 sounds a lot thinner.
Omni directional is bad on this video because the cymbals sound too harsh (loud).....something I'm having problems with even having professional cymbals...I think I'm going to try figure 8 pattern. Good thing my budget pencil condensers came with an Omni, Cardiod, and Figure 8 caps to interchange.....good demos in this video helping me see Omni is loud on cymbals....
Cardioid isolates the drums the most.... I'd rather setup a room mic if i want ambience have as much control as possible over it rather than setting up figure 8 or omni overheads.... if the sound needs to be dry and direct you're screwed if you captured it in omni. Best to do cardioid for the most part. And if you're doing live cardioid is pretty much the set in stone best option. Or a variation of cardioid.
I'm sure I've asked this before (and I know you just had a kid so you're probably busy) but I'm wondering if you could do a two-mic stereo setup with the different polar patterns while compressing with the wa76. That would be so helpful and really awesome. Thank you for your channel dude!
Yeah, basically just what you did here with a stereo pair instead of mono. 3 polar patterns raw and then through the WA76. It'd be awesome to see that in action if you aren't too busy.
Love this Video Ryan. Hi again from Calgary Canada. I'll try this with my AT 4050 mic and my WA-76 Comp as well. I'm so use to the recorder man method (via two dbx 160x's). Im due for a change ....lol
IDK why cardioid is always suggested. I have been flicking the switches just to chose the best one. I think maybe its suggested for boxy rooms, not too much spread and rejecting of the room sound. Its a good way of controlling stereo spread though. Omni is narrower, and figure 8 pretty wide, because the sounds are more different.IMO if anything should sound natural and like an acoustic instrument OMNI is the way to go. but if you really wanted to cut through and get some additional ambience as well then the figure 8 really tightens it. Would you place the omni closer though? I suppose that defeats its purpose a bit, IDK.
Hey Ryan, thanks for the videos. Always good stuff. How did you have the figure 8 mic facing ? I couldn't tell were the lobes pointed to each side of the kit or directly to the kit and the ceiling ?
Do you have any videos of your signal chain with the microphone/preamp/compressor/interface or whatever the pattern is? That would be incredibly helpful. Love your videos dude.
***** Yeah, I hear the omni as being more balanced. In a situation where I wanted to capture a full spectrum/accurate tone, I'd go with that. My preference is for tighter and more colored sounds, which the fig 8 seemed to produce.
I'm pretty sure that the polar pattern is not the only thing that makes the sound different. The omni and fig8 capsules probably already sound different from each other. I do wonder why the fig 8 sounds so very different from the rest!
+Angelo Boltini Yeah, your right. Each capsule will have a unique sound. I usually don't think of capsules as being one polar pattern or the other. In dynamics/ribbons polar pattern can be achieved with a acoustic labyrinth so the sound coming in the back is an angle of phase. For LDC it's a matter of electronics. I'll have a video that goes deeper once I have some good references, as I don't like to talk out of my ass with this stuff.
Well i know to get cardioid, the mic is actually blending it's figure-8 and omni capsules together. One side of the figure-8 is out of phase, so it cancels out and causes that null of cardioid pattern, whilst adding to what's infront.
First time I’ve checked out a back to back comparison with these. I’m pleasantly surprised at how amazing figure 8 sounds. My question is how well does the figure 8 pattern resist bleed if you’re in a live tracking setting?
The figure 8 can be great when live tracking, but with a Blumlein it'll just be an Omni like pick up. However fig8 has nulls out of the top and bottom too....so you can still point those nulls at a problem area like an amp or whatever.
Thanks Ryan, I liked the figure 8 as well seemed more focused and multi dimensional once compression was added. how about SDC mic's. I suppose would have the same effect as the cardioid. One question my M179's have super cardioid on the switch what applications would you use this for? I have tried it on toms to mitigate ride and cymbal bleed, but cannot really tell a difference. What are your uses you might have for super cardioid? Thanks.
+Robert Waddell Hmm, not sure what you mean about SDC. Do you mean that SDC would have a focusing effect or something? Yeah supercardioid will have nulls out to the side at 8 and 4 oclock. Put the cymbals there, or alter the polar pattern. I don't think of it as a thing of it's own but I just dial in the sound back and fourth as a big-picture technique. For example, I mention this in increasing proximity effect in the previous guitar amp video.
Didn't have time or patience to watch this whole thing.....but are not mic placements / positions / patterns are all secondary to the ROOM the drums are in?
Hey Ryan! Is it possible that you can do a video about mono vs. stereo overhead mics with the different polar patterns? I am limited to recording 4 tracks at once and saving up 1 overhead mic to use as a room would be awesome :)
+Gamaliel Rios Mixing on headphones is something that I won't even do. I will use headphones for music creation such as when I'm making a song in Ableton Live and I want to get into it. For mixing it's very tough. Turn the volume down to where it's very soft and you might have a better chance.
@Creative Sound Lab
I'm a bit late to the party, but just wanted to say, "Great Demo, Ryan"!
Thanks for the time in putting this together.
Lately I've been using my Samar VL-37A ribbons as stereo OH's, then just blending in some kick & snare close mics.
I do love the Omnis as well though. I tend to mic & mix for that "sounds like my drums in the room/accuracy" though.
Thanks again.
Omni sounds awesome
I use the old ev brand omnis . i have 5 or 6 of them. Great and cheap mics
Wow I really like the omni pattern in this example. Sounds so big and full, especially the low end of the kick.
Thanks for doing this series. It's pretty eye opening.
+James Ferrell Thanks James, really glad to hear you've gotten a lot out of this series. I also liked that omni sound.
Very interesting. In the first, non-compressed set of files I found the cardioid still best, as Omni sounded too much like a room mic, and the figure of 8 seemed bland, cutting out a lot of the cymbals (which could be useful to tame cymbals).
The figure of 8 improved to a usable tone with compression, and the cardioid didn't change all too much, but Omni sounded great. Huge low end, not too powerful snare, plenty of cymbals. Some could say it all mushed together a little too much but I'm pretty impressed. It'd be interesting to hear how that comp'd omni works in a mix context!
+Rufus Ambler Great comment and insight, thank you.
Great video! But I think you're wrong about proximity effect. When you go far away from the microphone proximity effect makes things sound thinner. Thats why the omni sounds fuller than the cardiod and the figure-8 sounds a lot thinner.
Guess i spoke too soon in my comment on the last video! Awesome as usual man, thanks!
Omni directional is bad on this video because the cymbals sound too harsh (loud).....something I'm having problems with even having professional cymbals...I think I'm going to try figure 8 pattern. Good thing my budget pencil condensers came with an Omni, Cardiod, and Figure 8 caps to interchange.....good demos in this video helping me see Omni is loud on cymbals....
That title is gold. Sucks folks in like a black hole. 🤘🏻 Nice video!
Cardioid isolates the drums the most.... I'd rather setup a room mic if i want ambience have as much control as possible over it rather than setting up figure 8 or omni overheads.... if the sound needs to be dry and direct you're screwed if you captured it in omni. Best to do cardioid for the most part. And if you're doing live cardioid is pretty much the set in stone best option. Or a variation of cardioid.
I'm sure I've asked this before (and I know you just had a kid so you're probably busy)
but I'm wondering if you could do a two-mic stereo setup with the different polar patterns while compressing with the wa76. That would be so helpful and really awesome. Thank you for your channel dude!
Ok cool. Yeah I could do that. Just compressing an overhead pair with the wa76?
Yeah, basically just what you did here with a stereo pair instead of mono. 3 polar patterns raw and then through the WA76. It'd be awesome to see that in action if you aren't too busy.
hi ryan, how about supercardioid condensers? you think they can be used similarly to cardioids, or is their side-rejection a drawback?
Fig 8 is actually really sweet.
Love this Video Ryan. Hi again from Calgary Canada. I'll try this with my AT 4050 mic and my WA-76 Comp as well.
I'm so use to the recorder man method (via two dbx 160x's). Im due for a change ....lol
This video made me fall in love with that snare!!!!! In Omni it sounds soooo faT. Compression really kicked it up
IDK why cardioid is always suggested. I have been flicking the switches just to chose the best one. I think maybe its suggested for boxy rooms, not too much spread and rejecting of the room sound.
Its a good way of controlling stereo spread though. Omni is narrower, and figure 8 pretty wide, because the sounds are more different.IMO if anything should sound natural and like an acoustic instrument OMNI is the way to go. but if you really wanted to cut through and get some additional ambience as well then the figure 8 really tightens it.
Would you place the omni closer though? I suppose that defeats its purpose a bit, IDK.
yeah, I've always love the sound of omni if the room can take it.
Hey Ryan, thanks for the videos. Always good stuff. How did you have the figure 8 mic facing ? I couldn't tell were the lobes pointed to each side of the kit or directly to the kit and the ceiling ?
Omni sounded Best!
Great Video.
Thanks!
mono overhead in omni = instant Led Zep tones
Do you have any videos of your signal chain with the microphone/preamp/compressor/interface or whatever the pattern is? That would be incredibly helpful. Love your videos dude.
Yeah, I have a video about my patchbays and preamps. There's a couple about the topic, and I cover what everything is.
I really like the Fig 8 in this example. It makes me want to try a recorder man with mics set to figure 8.
+explodingPSYCH That's really interesting. I tend to favor the omni side of things.
***** Yeah, I hear the omni as being more balanced. In a situation where I wanted to capture a full spectrum/accurate tone, I'd go with that. My preference is for tighter and more colored sounds, which the fig 8 seemed to produce.
Reece Smoot less kick bleed might not be such a good thing though, overheads are a big picture of the kit and the kick is the heart of it.
omni is the best sounding. thanks. helped a lot.
I'm pretty sure that the polar pattern is not the only thing that makes the sound different. The omni and fig8 capsules probably already sound different from each other. I do wonder why the fig 8 sounds so very different from the rest!
+Angelo Boltini Yeah, your right. Each capsule will have a unique sound. I usually don't think of capsules as being one polar pattern or the other. In dynamics/ribbons polar pattern can be achieved with a acoustic labyrinth so the sound coming in the back is an angle of phase. For LDC it's a matter of electronics. I'll have a video that goes deeper once I have some good references, as I don't like to talk out of my ass with this stuff.
Well i know to get cardioid, the mic is actually blending it's figure-8 and omni capsules together. One side of the figure-8 is out of phase, so it cancels out and causes that null of cardioid pattern, whilst adding to what's infront.
First time I’ve checked out a back to back comparison with these. I’m pleasantly surprised at how amazing figure 8 sounds. My question is how well does the figure 8 pattern resist bleed if you’re in a live tracking setting?
The figure 8 can be great when live tracking, but with a Blumlein it'll just be an Omni like pick up. However fig8 has nulls out of the top and bottom too....so you can still point those nulls at a problem area like an amp or whatever.
Figure 8 sounded the best to me... Sounded more clear, the others seemed muddy to me.
Nice comparison. Thanks.
Thanks Ryan, I liked the figure 8 as well seemed more focused and multi dimensional once compression was added. how about SDC mic's. I suppose would have the same effect as the cardioid. One question my M179's have super cardioid on the switch what applications would you use this for? I have tried it on toms to mitigate ride and cymbal bleed, but cannot really tell a difference. What are your uses you might have for super cardioid? Thanks.
+Robert Waddell Hmm, not sure what you mean about SDC. Do you mean that SDC would have a focusing effect or something? Yeah supercardioid will have nulls out to the side at 8 and 4 oclock. Put the cymbals there, or alter the polar pattern. I don't think of it as a thing of it's own but I just dial in the sound back and fourth as a big-picture technique. For example, I mention this in increasing proximity effect in the previous guitar amp video.
Bidirectional make awsome overhead. Omni for ambience
Didn't have time or patience to watch this whole thing.....but are not mic placements / positions / patterns are all secondary to the ROOM the drums are in?
Hey Ryan!
Is it possible that you can do a video about mono vs. stereo overhead mics with the different polar patterns? I am limited to recording 4 tracks at once and saving up 1 overhead mic to use as a room would be awesome :)
+toefes Yes, totally possible.
+creativesoundlab Thanks! You're awesome!! :)
For a person who is starting out, what about mixing on headphones? Sony MDR 7510 everything on DAW.
+Gamaliel Rios Mixing on headphones is something that I won't even do. I will use headphones for music creation such as when I'm making a song in Ableton Live and I want to get into it. For mixing it's very tough. Turn the volume down to where it's very soft and you might have a better chance.
I've had some success on headphones...it takes about 4 times longer. you really have to check lots of things.
Mate, that snare sounds sexual
+James Horan Thanks man!