until you realize you can't just buy another module of the same size to double your capacity, you have to fork out for the larger capacity module and replace the unit entirely, leaving you with a useless (to you, probably) module you have to find something to do with, or it winds up in the trash. this spec is a regression in technology if implemented in desktops. the only way around that, is to make the motherboards larger, which is another regression. laptops and certain embedded solutions? Sure, makes perfect sense. not in desktops.
@@kenabi Just sell the old module on a 2nd hand market. Also, you already buy a memory replacement if you upgrade your memory anyway because mixing up memory modules (especially DDR5) could cause issues.
@@kenabi Sure, that's a con. but there are lots of pros which attract me. Like, I'm dedicated to air cooling - this will let me use bigger fans for the CPU cooler and cool the VRMs better. Plus, you can get better timings since the traces are shorter and more efficiently routed.
We were "supposed" to have moved completely away from current memory designs, by switching to serial rather than parallel communication after DDR4 because of the signalling complexities, but I've heard nothing about it for years now, that seemed like the more practical thing than this CAMM thing.
@@ChrispyNut I think if it were more practical than CAMM2, it'd be at least talked about. After a short read about serial DRAM, it seems like it may fill some niches, but it comes at a tradeoff to convert the serial signal to a parallel signal. CAMM2's (and on-die memory's in some applications) approach seems to be the more practical solution.
I really like the CAMM2 modules, definitely seems like the future, mainly for laptops but I can definitely see it being nice on desktop as well (they could in theory put the CAMM2 modules on the back of the motherboard even closer to the CPU)
@@poppyrider5541 Unironically definitely possible with how camm2 is flatter and wider/taller. Let's just hope manufacturers, once cooling is needed, don't pull any stupid decisions for the displays. Like having them sit *right* against the heatsink..
Definitely agree with this but I don't agree with putting camm2 modules on the back of the motherboard. Especially since the back of the socket needs atleast a little bit of air blowing over it. But you could definitely have it closer to the front of the socket.
@@scarecrow5848 For sure, cooling on the backside would become an issue, I think it would be an interesting proof of concept for all the zero cable builds that are moving connectors to the backside.
I really like the new CAMM2 for it to be universally implemented and DIMM module stopped at the DDR5, It just looks neat laying flat on the motherboard, so we can put bigger air cooler and maybe with small CAMM2 cooler if it ever runs hot
@@spankeyfish I'm not sure if that is correct as the side against the motherboard have pins so you can't add chips there. Besides, if it expanded horizontally enough where it allowed it, they will just put it on top so that problem is never even a possibility.
I think that two benefits that haven’t been discussed much are the fact that this memory config will be favorable to monoblock coolers as well as the reduced Z footprint being very ideal for SFF builds.
@@milescarter7803 True, a lot easier and less hazardous to clean fan blades when not jabbing fingers or towels into radiator fins/channels, and can freely access from both sides. If you're running a showpiece, in a dirty/dusty environment or just like to keep it neat clean - this or something like it would be very nice.
plus it could be part of their cases. Buy the fan you want, and just stick it in the frame. No wiring, no cable management. Now they need a GPU and motherboard with the power connection on the PCB, so the GPU can just be slotted in. Cable free PC compartment, nice and ultra clean.
@@pr0xZen I'm always shocked at the layer of thick dust on the AIO radiator under the fans when I clean it every three months or so, but it's no doubt due to household pets. Anything that makes dealing with that easier is a bonus.
true one less problem with cooler compatibility 👍 and since most itx motherboards dont even have more than 2 slots anyway I don't see any drawback for SFFs
CAMM2 is small enough it could be on the underside of the board, like some SSD slots as well. Then it could be even closer to the socket, in theory, reducing latency even more.
CAMM2 is interesting. Not being able to go from 2 DIMMs to 4 is a drawback, but 4 DIMMs often have stability issues anyway and you still need a matching kit, so you often end up replacing 2 DIMMs with 4 new ones anyway. I think the main appeal of CAMM2 for me is being able to put a heatsink on it. DIMMs are finicky to cool because they're vertical, so no one really bothers to replace the manufacturer-provided heatsinks, but that shouldn't be an issue with CAMM2. I'm much more on board with putting a big heatsink on my RAM than on an SSD.
You don't really need a matching kit for 4 dims. I've done the 2-4 Dimms upgrade in my desktop without any real stability hit. Same speed and primary timings, but most definitely not a matching kit. Though I do agree with several of your positives for CAMM2.
@@RyuFelinshire You're absolutely correct about not needing matching DIMMs as long as the speed and timings are the same, but DDR5 is much more finnicky than DDR4. With DDR5, even matching kits (same speed, timings, and brand) typically won't run at the advertised speed/timings when using 4 sticks. Using 4-sticks of DDR5 without stability issues usually requires running at 5200MT/s rather than the kits advertised XMP or EXPO speeds.
Hey der8auer: Nice quick tour of this booth. (1) Liquid N2 cooling in intro: I expect that gets messy when the unit is powered down and brought to room temperature 😓 (2) Concept hexagonal case - G-Skill _should_ go for production on this, with changes. Looks interesting and seems to go "all in" on the convex air intake underneath that we're seeing also from Lian Li (and Fractal Designs?). The main change I'd like to see is that the top angled sections mirror the bottom ones. I think the vertical slats on the top pieces will impede outward airflow and negatively impact exhaust fans. (3) The case with the timber strip looks nice (4) Love your t-shirt - This _may_ not have been the intention, but it makes me think of BVB away shirt 🍻
i wonder if you can place CAMM2 module behind the cpu socket on motherboard, it would make more space at front, may be useful for sff builds, and may benefit in performance
Don't agree with putting it on the back of the motherboard: your CPU socket *needs* cooling, even if it's a small breeze going over it or just open ventilation. But you could easily put it closer to the CPU on the top of the motherboard.
CAMM2 opens up some interesting options for small form factor builds, even special small form factor motherboards with rear mounted RAM, potentially with a stacked motherboard like we see in mobile phones. Even without this, ultra low form factor RAM could open up some new air cooling options for the CPU. Very interesting possibilities.
Thanks for the video. The metal frame you talk about (for feeding electricity to the fans) works also as spacers for the fans. That's useful feature for increasing the airflow area through the rad fin stack. Nice some engineers also think about this in the design. Thumbs up for this mounting design.
I really like the idea of CAMM2. Not only from the memory perspective (improved transfer speeds, signaling and latency) but also from the potentials it opens to manufacturers for cooling them, aesthetics and the removal of the height restriction for cpu aircooler height. The only downside i see at least for now, is that you lose the expandability option that you have now
I think the expandability option severely diminished with DDR5 regardless. With two slots it's now possible to run 96GB and soon 128GB. Also most common DDR5 kits are 2x16GB and i have a hard time seeing a scenario in the coming years where 32GB wont be enough for most people and would necessitate expansion. So in the current state four slots are wasted on most boards anyway. Plus running four sticks incurs severe speed, latency and memory training penalty. As long as CAMM2 is user replaceable and not soldered i have no problem with it.
I hope CAMM2 becomes the default for mid-range to high end SFF systems and notebooks. It's a really neat little module and makes replacing or upgrading RAM remain possible without the bulk of SODIMM sockets.
I kinda like that magnetic fan. Being able to pull one off to hotswap into a test build or project would be nice. But only if the mounting plates can be sold separate to the fans. (I'd need extra plates for such hot swapping)
5:55 I was expecting something like this a long time ago but I am still impressed! Having a custom loop I can say that these fans have a huge niche. Having to leave my radiator hanging to clean the fans every few months always leaves me nervous so these would be a huge improvement!
I love the idea of CAMM2, Usually, at least i don't, upgrade the RAM after i've built my platform anyways. Cooling will be easier and better to be implemented and aesthetically imo it looks just better.
I think the new ram modules are awesome! Less distance for the traces from the ram to the cpu not to mention aftermarket heat plates, coolers, and liquid cooling for ram. Really hope this becomes the new norm
The LN2 pot at the end is very interesting. I hope it's ok to mention here, but I very recently saw Ian at _Forgotten Weapons_ cover something technically similar; a titanium _suppressor_ utilizing the porosity of metal 3D printing. But in that application, to slow and cool hot expanding gasses ofc.
i like the camm2 modules. I feel like it would provide some interesting customization opportunities for the heatsink and in combination with backfacing motherboard connectors it further cleans up the aesthetics. Also, these days the price per GB of memory is so low that I usually only upgrade memory when I configure a new system anyway.
CAMM2 looks nice, for sure. A bit less upgrade friendly, but lots of perks. For one, increased capacity and speed. Also clearance with large air coolers is no longer an issue. ITX possibilities are also potentially great, amazing for those slim sandwich cases.
5:15 All I know is those fan look really good and would work well with all the flush cases coming out as there is now two trends where you either want your fans to look all around good like Lian Lis because they will stick out, or you want everything but the fans faceplate to be nondescript as possible.
I would love to see how motherboard manufacturers figure out the best way for CAMM2 modules. With this flat layout, it could be even placed at the back side of the motherboard closer to the CPU for latency, even.
It would be interesting if one of the manufacturers would make GDDR CAMM2 for GPUs. Then have the ability to mount RAM modules to the back of the GPU. ISTR that one of the benefits of that memory format was better signal integrity which is one of the justifications for having soldered memory on GPUs.
This is what I want to see as well. Memory is going to be very important in the future and I'd love to be able to upgrade speed or capacity of memory without having to buy another whole GPU brick.
When I saw the MSI implementation of CAMM2 on a desktop board. I really had to say that the potential for cooling, memory overclocking, as well as innovation in small form factor and laptop in terms of repairability and form factor have me very excited. It's really going to come down to if vendors actually implement this as a standard and begin to phase out the old DIMM technology if it sticks in my opinion.
The watercooling applications for camm would be interesting however if they are populating both sides it could likely produce issues? Either way, its going to make for a lot more space on the board and also a somewhat cleaner build in the end
With camm2 ram modules, there is a benefit of the speed and data integrity or how it is called, but since it is dual channel already, and the laptops image i've seen online have only one slot, you can't just buy a laptop with 16/32 gb ram and toss another 16/32 gb ram module later for 32/64 gb ram total. On the desktop i guess they can make 2 camm2 slots and this won't be an issue.
With CAMM2 modules I belive it will open a new window of ram cooling and extreme overclocking in the future. I can wait to see how the next generations of custom PCs will look like.
I’m definitely interested in CAMM2 modules but I just want to see what the upgrade options will be for them. Also, I’m loving the LCD screens. I utilize them for system stats as well as GIFs and business logos. The more the merrier. I have one 3.5 inch screen in both of my systems, as well as an AIO with a screen and I’m constantly utilizing them so I Dont have to add overlays to games and ruin the immersion.
If the CAMM 2 allows us to get higher frequencies and better timings even if it costs a bit more sure. Hopefully we can see some decently sized heatsinks on those too since height won't matter as much.
Camm2 seems more interesting form factor for laptops, although with ddr5 having odd throttling over a certain temp makes cooling cleaner. In the desktop space it would be cool if it could open up the ability to have wider memory bus for ram like a theoretical 128 or 256 bus for ram maybe camm3
I absolutely want the CAMM2 modules - not just for laptops, but also for desktops. With DIMMs I have to be conscious of the height, so usually cannot get high frequency modules, as I run an NH-D15. Bring on the CAMM2!! Seriously! I WILL be a customer if they provide!
CAMM2 has a major benefit over slot ram, it can utilize actual heatsinks to dissipate heat and remain stable at higher speeds and tighter timings. So much like what motherboard manufacturers do now for M.2 heatsink covers, they would do with CAMM2 and would look pretty sleek.
You put your hand in the cloud, but you didn't keep it there long. I was curious how cold that was above the rig. I've seen you wearing gloves when you're messing with liquid air.
That new RAM concept is neat but it seems like it'd take up a lot of space laying flat, unless there's plans to be able to stack them somehow- that'd be a neat idea. I don't see it working out unless it's universally adopted though.
I don't mind the idea of the CAMM2... But if its going to take up that much surface area, the capacity needs to be more than a single stick of standard ram. That or maybe it connects to the back of the motherboard.
2 things that come to mind. the backside is a disaster to cool unless they provide enough space arround the socket on the motherboard to sandwitch a cooler under it. Second how do you add memory if this modules has the same pcb footprint on the motherboard as 4/6/8 dimm slots and i do not see it a space saver in laptops as that modules fulley assembeld will take up the same space as 2 sodimm slots. What would be cool for normal motherboards would be if there is a vertical "socket" so you could put mutiple for the same pcb space. However this would be nice for gpu,s , add memory to the gpu
The thing with CAMM2 is interesting, but im really uncertain about its placement, on a typical board it will end up having a heatsink, thats fine but may eventually be an issue on ITX, i dont see any fallback if you have a bad ram stack? (e.g 2x16 and 1 dies for whatever, the system will show 8gb, and this is just gonna cause more troubleshooting i guess) but also what will happen to mass memory? are we just going to reach a limit to the size at say 768GB? and idk just gonna be based on width of the motherboard? im trying to look where this limits the future, might be good for 25 years though.
CAMM2 means laptops and desktops use the same ram right? I think that's a big win. I hope there is decent improvement from the shorter traces and it's not just marketing talk. Seems like a reasonable way forward. I'm mildly excited about it
Love the idea of easily swappable fans, LCD screens, etc. Easier to do maintenance, to upgrade, etc. I just built a new computer from scratch yesterday and, even though I like building computers and the experience was enjoyable overall, at many points I couldn't help but think the process could've been a lot faster and easier if some parts were designed better.
The CAMM modules seem very practical to me as an SFF user, could see a future where theyre mounted to the back of the motherboard for example. Great potential improvement in cooler compatibility too
will they fit on a small mainboard though? those modules seem like they would overhang the mainboard, and it would interfere with placement of power connectors too!
Also, to add to the benefits of CAMM2 (?), having only the equivalent of 2 memory slots does allow for higher memory speeds/timings? So yes, please provide CAMM2 Matx boards as well if ITX is too small 😅
The new standard for the memory sounds cool, as long as it provides an actuall benefit vs standard DIMM and doesn't cost an arm and a leg and one of your kidneys.
If they found a way to put as much memory on CAMMs as you could DIMMs, that would be great. Perhaps they could utilize the back of the motherboard for that. After all, you'll need to support multiple CAMM2 modules if you ever wanted the tech to take off for servers.
CAMM modules should be made such that it works both on Desktop and Laptop no CAMM and LPCAMM nonsense. Single design pin system m.2 style single width and double width modules. Single width module designs for entry level, lower memory modules for laptops, mini-ITX and SFF desktops, and everything else having support for double wide modules. I want to be able to cut a slot in my Steam Deck -3- 10 and have a 256GB RAM double wide module stick out the back like a Game Cartridge and run it at rather boring JEDEC speed of 8400MT/s instead of watercooling it in my desktop and get 12000MT/s. Edit: Forgot Valve can't count to 3, adjusted comment accordingly.
Only reason why I would go for the new form factor is if they support higher transfer speeds in real world applications. Building a new workstation with 96GB in two dimms. So they would also have to at least match current capacity for two channels.
CAMM modules are looking awesome, this will bring so much more in terms of scaling to the desktop platform especially small form factor where the Giant DIMMS have been almost the length of the motherboards and just look old tech and ugly.
I am wondering if CAMM2 can possibly be modified for desktop and integrated into the socket itself. Memory pins on half the socket are in the module itself. Stack module under CPU (obviously let the PCB with the memory chips hang out the side. Either pass all signals through the memory PCB, or have the PCIe and power pins higher so they are level with the memory height pins after memory is installed.
first that came to my mind with those new ram modules is huge monoblock. CPU, VRM and RAM under 1 monoblock. but then i realized, there are also memory chips under the module so I dont know.
I wonder if there are any issues with the back-side memory chips heating up more than the front-side chips on the CAMM2 module since they will basically end up pressed right up against the motherboard. Maybe there are enough vias through the PCB to keep the heat fairly well distributed?
Looking forward to CAMM2 being adopted to both desktop and laptops. That way we have more options, the memory can be re-used/re-sold more easily. @der8auer: have you seen any AM5 motherboards with CAMM2? Do the memory/motherboard makers think AMD would also get benefit from CAMM2 instead of standard DIMMs?
If CAMM2 offers better memory performance for any reason, whether it’s easier to cool or improved frequency and timing from better signal integrity, I’m all for it. I wouldn’t use more than 32-48GB right now anyways, but definitely wouldn’t mind getting more than 8200 with the same or tighter timings than I already use.
Considering CAMM2 is capable of dual channel functionality through one socket, fully utilizing the CPU's capabilities, at higher speeds, and more efficiently, with a lower profile.. I am all for it. Yes, please.
I'm all for CAMM2 bruv, I'm daily driving a 5600G and am planning to upgrade later to either AM5 or LGA18xx system with iGPU only, would love an easier time OCing the memory
I don't mind CAMM2 but when people buy them they have to remember that they can't just drop in new memory modules so spec for what your future needs are not your current. Most likely, when you need more RAM then what you over specked for you'll probably have to buy a new pc anyway and most likely there'll be a new spec like CAMM3 or 4 anyway that will most likely not be backwards compatible
If the flat memory module provides the same capacity and higher speeds, all while eliminating conflicts with CPU cooler fans... WIN-WIN!
until you realize you can't just buy another module of the same size to double your capacity, you have to fork out for the larger capacity module and replace the unit entirely, leaving you with a useless (to you, probably) module you have to find something to do with, or it winds up in the trash.
this spec is a regression in technology if implemented in desktops.
the only way around that, is to make the motherboards larger, which is another regression.
laptops and certain embedded solutions? Sure, makes perfect sense. not in desktops.
Unless of course we use it for HEDT SFF with "4 channels" aka 2 modules @@kenabi
@@milescarter7803 i like how you ignored the second half of my post.
@@kenabi Just sell the old module on a 2nd hand market.
Also, you already buy a memory replacement if you upgrade your memory anyway because mixing up memory modules (especially DDR5) could cause issues.
@@kenabi Sure, that's a con. but there are lots of pros which attract me. Like, I'm dedicated to air cooling - this will let me use bigger fans for the CPU cooler and cool the VRMs better. Plus, you can get better timings since the traces are shorter and more efficiently routed.
CAMM2 seems good to me, if it performs better than the standard DDR5 sticks. I will consider using it as long as the benchmarks are solid. Thumbs up!
exactly if it's fasrer I'm on board
We were "supposed" to have moved completely away from current memory designs, by switching to serial rather than parallel communication after DDR4 because of the signalling complexities, but I've heard nothing about it for years now, that seemed like the more practical thing than this CAMM thing.
👍
🙌
@@ChrispyNut I think if it were more practical than CAMM2, it'd be at least talked about. After a short read about serial DRAM, it seems like it may fill some niches, but it comes at a tradeoff to convert the serial signal to a parallel signal. CAMM2's (and on-die memory's in some applications) approach seems to be the more practical solution.
I really like the CAMM2 modules, definitely seems like the future, mainly for laptops but I can definitely see it being nice on desktop as well (they could in theory put the CAMM2 modules on the back of the motherboard even closer to the CPU)
Screw that. Put an LCD screen on it. Now that's the future.
@@poppyrider5541 Unironically definitely possible with how camm2 is flatter and wider/taller. Let's just hope manufacturers, once cooling is needed, don't pull any stupid decisions for the displays. Like having them sit *right* against the heatsink..
Definitely agree with this but I don't agree with putting camm2 modules on the back of the motherboard. Especially since the back of the socket needs atleast a little bit of air blowing over it. But you could definitely have it closer to the front of the socket.
@@scarecrow5848 For sure, cooling on the backside would become an issue, I think it would be an interesting proof of concept for all the zero cable builds that are moving connectors to the backside.
@@shadowkora mabye if you have heatsinks on both the actual module and the rear of the socket? just seperate ones? sockets are standardized anyway.
I really like the new CAMM2 for it to be universally implemented and DIMM module stopped at the DDR5, It just looks neat laying flat on the motherboard, so we can put bigger air cooler and maybe with small CAMM2 cooler if it ever runs hot
My concern about it is that you can have chips mounted on both sides of the CAMM module so the chips pressed against the mobo will be hard to cool.
@@spankeyfish I'm not sure if that is correct as the side against the motherboard have pins so you can't add chips there. Besides, if it expanded horizontally enough where it allowed it, they will just put it on top so that problem is never even a possibility.
@@Javier64691 see 3:21 in the video. There are modules on both sides of the board.
I think that two benefits that haven’t been discussed much are the fact that this memory config will be favorable to monoblock coolers as well as the reduced Z footprint being very ideal for SFF builds.
The GSkill AIO with quick-release fans has the obvious advantage of enabling easier cleaning of the radiator underneath.
Yes, exactly, and also fan blades cleaning.
@@milescarter7803 True, a lot easier and less hazardous to clean fan blades when not jabbing fingers or towels into radiator fins/channels, and can freely access from both sides. If you're running a showpiece, in a dirty/dusty environment or just like to keep it neat clean - this or something like it would be very nice.
plus it could be part of their cases. Buy the fan you want, and just stick it in the frame. No wiring, no cable management. Now they need a GPU and motherboard with the power connection on the PCB, so the GPU can just be slotted in. Cable free PC compartment, nice and ultra clean.
@@pr0xZen I'm always shocked at the layer of thick dust on the AIO radiator under the fans when I clean it every three months or so, but it's no doubt due to household pets. Anything that makes dealing with that easier is a bonus.
👍
CAMM for SFF builds will be awesome.!
true one less problem with cooler compatibility 👍 and since most itx motherboards dont even have more than 2 slots anyway I don't see any drawback for SFFs
CAMM2 is small enough it could be on the underside of the board, like some SSD slots as well. Then it could be even closer to the socket, in theory, reducing latency even more.
The birds want their bird house back 7:40
I literally laughed out loud when it popped up
Totally! 😂
I thought it looked like a beehive.
So far the gskill booth has the best looking stuff ive seen so far. Especially the aio with those removable fans
CAMM2 is interesting. Not being able to go from 2 DIMMs to 4 is a drawback, but 4 DIMMs often have stability issues anyway and you still need a matching kit, so you often end up replacing 2 DIMMs with 4 new ones anyway. I think the main appeal of CAMM2 for me is being able to put a heatsink on it. DIMMs are finicky to cool because they're vertical, so no one really bothers to replace the manufacturer-provided heatsinks, but that shouldn't be an issue with CAMM2. I'm much more on board with putting a big heatsink on my RAM than on an SSD.
You don't really need a matching kit for 4 dims. I've done the 2-4 Dimms upgrade in my desktop without any real stability hit. Same speed and primary timings, but most definitely not a matching kit. Though I do agree with several of your positives for CAMM2.
it would be interesting if you could put a second CAMM2 on the back of the board
@@RyuFelinshire You're absolutely correct about not needing matching DIMMs as long as the speed and timings are the same, but DDR5 is much more finnicky than DDR4. With DDR5, even matching kits (same speed, timings, and brand) typically won't run at the advertised speed/timings when using 4 sticks.
Using 4-sticks of DDR5 without stability issues usually requires running at 5200MT/s rather than the kits advertised XMP or EXPO speeds.
Hey der8auer: Nice quick tour of this booth.
(1) Liquid N2 cooling in intro: I expect that gets messy when the unit is powered down and brought to room temperature 😓
(2) Concept hexagonal case - G-Skill _should_ go for production on this, with changes. Looks interesting and seems to go "all in" on the convex air intake underneath that we're seeing also from Lian Li (and Fractal Designs?). The main change I'd like to see is that the top angled sections mirror the bottom ones. I think the vertical slats on the top pieces will impede outward airflow and negatively impact exhaust fans.
(3) The case with the timber strip looks nice
(4) Love your t-shirt - This _may_ not have been the intention, but it makes me think of BVB away shirt 🍻
i wonder if you can place CAMM2 module behind the cpu socket on motherboard, it would make more space at front, may be useful for sff builds, and may benefit in performance
Don't agree with putting it on the back of the motherboard: your CPU socket *needs* cooling, even if it's a small breeze going over it or just open ventilation. But you could easily put it closer to the CPU on the top of the motherboard.
There is also a problem with cooler backplates etc behind the socket. It could also interfere with cable routing spots if it were placed at the back.
Motherboards have M.2 slots on the backside, so I don't see why not do that for CAMM as well.
@@ChristianStout because CAMM2 is like three times as big as m.2 plus it needs a heat sink.
@@ChrisWijtmans PCIE gen4/5 M.2s need a heat sink as well.
CAMM2 opens up some interesting options for small form factor builds, even special small form factor motherboards with rear mounted RAM, potentially with a stacked motherboard like we see in mobile phones. Even without this, ultra low form factor RAM could open up some new air cooling options for the CPU. Very interesting possibilities.
Thanks for the video. The metal frame you talk about (for feeding electricity to the fans) works also as spacers for the fans. That's useful feature for increasing the airflow area through the rad fin stack. Nice some engineers also think about this in the design. Thumbs up for this mounting design.
I really like the idea of CAMM2. Not only from the memory perspective (improved transfer speeds, signaling and latency) but also from the potentials it opens to manufacturers for cooling them, aesthetics and the removal of the height restriction for cpu aircooler height. The only downside i see at least for now, is that you lose the expandability option that you have now
I think the expandability option severely diminished with DDR5 regardless. With two slots it's now possible to run 96GB and soon 128GB. Also most common DDR5 kits are 2x16GB and i have a hard time seeing a scenario in the coming years where 32GB wont be enough for most people and would necessitate expansion. So in the current state four slots are wasted on most boards anyway. Plus running four sticks incurs severe speed, latency and memory training penalty. As long as CAMM2 is user replaceable and not soldered i have no problem with it.
Let's have a camm2 slot on each side of the CPU then (and hopefully you get dual channel even with 1) :p
@@Raivo_K People said it for 16GB, 8GB, 4GB... It's never enough ram. Give it 5 years and it will not be enough again. History repeats itself
@@marinell06 In five years there will be DDR6 already, making any DDR5 upgrade a moot point as DDR6 requires new motherboards and modules anyway.
@@Raivo_K My usecase requires an ever increasing amount of RAM , I need upgradeability
I hope CAMM2 becomes the default for mid-range to high end SFF systems and notebooks. It's a really neat little module and makes replacing or upgrading RAM remain possible without the bulk of SODIMM sockets.
I kinda like that magnetic fan.
Being able to pull one off to hotswap into a test build or project would be nice.
But only if the mounting plates can be sold separate to the fans. (I'd need extra plates for such hot swapping)
5:55 I was expecting something like this a long time ago but I am still impressed! Having a custom loop I can say that these fans have a huge niche. Having to leave my radiator hanging to clean the fans every few months always leaves me nervous so these would be a huge improvement!
I love the idea of CAMM2, Usually, at least i don't, upgrade the RAM after i've built my platform anyways. Cooling will be easier and better to be implemented and aesthetically imo it looks just better.
I like the new CAMM2!
I think the new ram modules are awesome! Less distance for the traces from the ram to the cpu not to mention aftermarket heat plates, coolers, and liquid cooling for ram. Really hope this becomes the new norm
The LN2 pot at the end is very interesting. I hope it's ok to mention here, but I very recently saw Ian at _Forgotten Weapons_ cover something technically similar; a titanium _suppressor_ utilizing the porosity of metal 3D printing. But in that application, to slow and cool hot expanding gasses ofc.
Honestly, the plastic part with the pins that can be interchangeable could probably be also used for LGA CPUs on the mobos.
Thanks for highlighting my concept case @der8auer and the positieve feedback 🙏😎♥️
Those G skill concept case look great, I’d be very tempted to get one for a new build depending on price and performance.
i like the camm2 modules. I feel like it would provide some interesting customization opportunities for the heatsink and in combination with backfacing motherboard connectors it further cleans up the aesthetics. Also, these days the price per GB of memory is so low that I usually only upgrade memory when I configure a new system anyway.
Computex this year seems really amazing. G.Skill in particular have shown some very nice products - I love the cases especially
Neat! We need DDR5-10600 with CL24! Not gonna happen but a guy can dream. Anyway it would be interesting to see APUs with DDR5-10600 ram benchmarked.
Crossing fingers for CAMM format!
CAMM2 looks nice, for sure. A bit less upgrade friendly, but lots of perks. For one, increased capacity and speed. Also clearance with large air coolers is no longer an issue. ITX possibilities are also potentially great, amazing for those slim sandwich cases.
5:15 All I know is those fan look really good and would work well with all the flush cases coming out as there is now two trends where you either want your fans to look all around good like Lian Lis because they will stick out, or you want everything but the fans faceplate to be nondescript as possible.
I had the G.Skill MX780 back in the day, they made a solid mouse
I would love to see how motherboard manufacturers figure out the best way for CAMM2 modules. With this flat layout, it could be even placed at the back side of the motherboard closer to the CPU for latency, even.
It would be interesting if one of the manufacturers would make GDDR CAMM2 for GPUs.
Then have the ability to mount RAM modules to the back of the GPU.
ISTR that one of the benefits of that memory format was better signal integrity which is one of the justifications for having soldered memory on GPUs.
This is what I want to see as well. Memory is going to be very important in the future and I'd love to be able to upgrade speed or capacity of memory without having to buy another whole GPU brick.
I don't know if I like the overall design of the case, but I do love the idea of putting two 360mm or 280mm radiators in the top in a matched config.
When I saw the MSI implementation of CAMM2 on a desktop board. I really had to say that the potential for cooling, memory overclocking, as well as innovation in small form factor and laptop in terms of repairability and form factor have me very excited. It's really going to come down to if vendors actually implement this as a standard and begin to phase out the old DIMM technology if it sticks in my opinion.
we also need 12VO. and connectors. on the back.
@@ChrisWijtmans Maybe we'll see Project Zero Plus Ultra with backside connectors, CAMM2, and 12VO at CES 2025.
The watercooling applications for camm would be interesting however if they are populating both sides it could likely produce issues? Either way, its going to make for a lot more space on the board and also a somewhat cleaner build in the end
I'm interested in seeing more Camm2. It's what brought me to this video!
I like the idea of CAMM2. Especially snow when I am more into itx builds, this would save a lot of space and height too
"there is a small condensation in there"
0:54 condensate "i beg your pardon?" :D
With camm2 ram modules, there is a benefit of the speed and data integrity or how it is called, but since it is dual channel already, and the laptops image i've seen online have only one slot, you can't just buy a laptop with 16/32 gb ram and toss another 16/32 gb ram module later for 32/64 gb ram total. On the desktop i guess they can make 2 camm2 slots and this won't be an issue.
With CAMM2 modules I belive it will open a new window of ram cooling and extreme overclocking in the future. I can wait to see how the next generations of custom PCs will look like.
I’m definitely interested in CAMM2 modules but I just want to see what the upgrade options will be for them. Also, I’m loving the LCD screens. I utilize them for system stats as well as GIFs and business logos. The more the merrier. I have one 3.5 inch screen in both of my systems, as well as an AIO with a screen and I’m constantly utilizing them so I Dont have to add overlays to games and ruin the immersion.
I'm kind of hoping CAMM2 is what my next computer will be using (next upgrade will probably be when ddr6 is out)
If the CAMM 2 allows us to get higher frequencies and better timings even if it costs a bit more sure. Hopefully we can see some decently sized heatsinks on those too since height won't matter as much.
I for one love the new. CAM dimm thing, I want more stuff to be a standard and have a torque spec!
Camm2 seems more interesting form factor for laptops, although with ddr5 having odd throttling over a certain temp makes cooling cleaner. In the desktop space it would be cool if it could open up the ability to have wider memory bus for ram like a theoretical 128 or 256 bus for ram maybe camm3
CAMM2 is awesome. Those concept cases were sick too.
I absolutely want the CAMM2 modules - not just for laptops, but also for desktops. With DIMMs I have to be conscious of the height, so usually cannot get high frequency modules, as I run an NH-D15. Bring on the CAMM2!! Seriously! I WILL be a customer if they provide!
CAMM2 has a major benefit over slot ram, it can utilize actual heatsinks to dissipate heat and remain stable at higher speeds and tighter timings. So much like what motherboard manufacturers do now for M.2 heatsink covers, they would do with CAMM2 and would look pretty sleek.
You put your hand in the cloud, but you didn't keep it there long. I was curious how cold that was above the rig. I've seen you wearing gloves when you're messing with liquid air.
That new RAM concept is neat but it seems like it'd take up a lot of space laying flat, unless there's plans to be able to stack them somehow- that'd be a neat idea. I don't see it working out unless it's universally adopted though.
I don't mind the idea of the CAMM2... But if its going to take up that much surface area, the capacity needs to be more than a single stick of standard ram. That or maybe it connects to the back of the motherboard.
I really would like CAMM2 in my build, mainly because I like building small or flat systems and fast DDR5 modules are usually too high.
2 things that come to mind.
the backside is a disaster to cool unless they provide enough space arround the socket on the motherboard to sandwitch a cooler under it.
Second how do you add memory if this modules has the same pcb footprint on the motherboard as 4/6/8 dimm slots
and i do not see it a space saver in laptops as that modules fulley assembeld will take up the same space as 2 sodimm slots.
What would be cool for normal motherboards would be if there is a vertical "socket" so you could put mutiple for the same pcb space.
However this would be nice for gpu,s , add memory to the gpu
I remember like 90s 2000s we had alot more competition in Pc Cases that they all didn't look like each other
The thing with CAMM2 is interesting, but im really uncertain about its placement, on a typical board it will end up having a heatsink, thats fine but may eventually be an issue on ITX, i dont see any fallback if you have a bad ram stack? (e.g 2x16 and 1 dies for whatever, the system will show 8gb, and this is just gonna cause more troubleshooting i guess) but also what will happen to mass memory? are we just going to reach a limit to the size at say 768GB? and idk just gonna be based on width of the motherboard? im trying to look where this limits the future, might be good for 25 years though.
CAMM2 means laptops and desktops use the same ram right? I think that's a big win. I hope there is decent improvement from the shorter traces and it's not just marketing talk. Seems like a reasonable way forward. I'm mildly excited about it
Love the idea of easily swappable fans, LCD screens, etc. Easier to do maintenance, to upgrade, etc.
I just built a new computer from scratch yesterday and, even though I like building computers and the experience was enjoyable overall, at many points I couldn't help but think the process could've been a lot faster and easier if some parts were designed better.
How will this CAMM2 change ITX boards? Maybe huge CPU coolers would be possible thanks to that?
CPU slots have been discontinued for decades Slot A for example. It’s time ram slots go too! The age of ram sockets has come!
CAMM2 is something I would put into my new PC build. I liked this when I saw it on GN (Steve's) video.
The CAMM modules seem very practical to me as an SFF user, could see a future where theyre mounted to the back of the motherboard for example. Great potential improvement in cooler compatibility too
will they fit on a small mainboard though? those modules seem like they would overhang the mainboard, and it would interfere with placement of power connectors too!
I really love MP-customized!
Camm2 is definitely on the table for me, as long as the performance and capacity is there.
Also, to add to the benefits of CAMM2 (?), having only the equivalent of 2 memory slots does allow for higher memory speeds/timings? So yes, please provide CAMM2 Matx boards as well if ITX is too small 😅
The new standard for the memory sounds cool, as long as it provides an actuall benefit vs standard DIMM and doesn't cost an arm and a leg and one of your kidneys.
Gonna rock DDR4 until CAMM2 Mobo's come out
Those concept cases are awesome, we need them in north america!
I can see CAMM2 being good for itx Boards...if they fit. Getting more space to have wider low profile coolers would help in sff builds
I really want to see more camm2 motherboard and ram. There is a lot of advantage in this form factor.
I'd definitely be interested in CAMM2 motherboards, even though they are basically equivalent to 2 slots.
If they found a way to put as much memory on CAMMs as you could DIMMs, that would be great. Perhaps they could utilize the back of the motherboard for that.
After all, you'll need to support multiple CAMM2 modules if you ever wanted the tech to take off for servers.
CAMM modules should be made such that it works both on Desktop and Laptop no CAMM and LPCAMM nonsense.
Single design pin system m.2 style single width and double width modules. Single width module designs for entry level, lower memory modules for laptops, mini-ITX and SFF desktops, and everything else having support for double wide modules.
I want to be able to cut a slot in my Steam Deck -3- 10 and have a 256GB RAM double wide module stick out the back like a Game Cartridge and run it at rather boring JEDEC speed of 8400MT/s instead of watercooling it in my desktop and get 12000MT/s.
Edit: Forgot Valve can't count to 3, adjusted comment accordingly.
Only reason why I would go for the new form factor is if they support higher transfer speeds in real world applications. Building a new workstation with 96GB in two dimms. So they would also have to at least match current capacity for two channels.
Wonder if you could put a small vacuum on an LN2 system like that, and get rid of more moisture.
CAMM modules are looking awesome, this will bring so much more in terms of scaling to the desktop platform especially small form factor where the Giant DIMMS have been almost the length of the motherboards and just look old tech and ugly.
I am wondering if CAMM2 can possibly be modified for desktop and integrated into the socket itself. Memory pins on half the socket are in the module itself. Stack module under CPU (obviously let the PCB with the memory chips hang out the side. Either pass all signals through the memory PCB, or have the PCIe and power pins higher so they are level with the memory height pins after memory is installed.
first that came to my mind with those new ram modules is huge monoblock. CPU, VRM and RAM under 1 monoblock. but then i realized, there are also memory chips under the module so I dont know.
I think it could all fit in an OAM card.
I'm wondering, what would liquid helium cooling be like? On a common CPU as opposed to a quantum computer
I wonder if there are any issues with the back-side memory chips heating up more than the front-side chips on the CAMM2 module since they will basically end up pressed right up against the motherboard. Maybe there are enough vias through the PCB to keep the heat fairly well distributed?
holy crap! DDR5-10600MT/s!!!
I like the idea of the CAMM modules.
And btw instead of RGB it can have screens lol
Looking forward to CAMM2 being adopted to both desktop and laptops. That way we have more options, the memory can be re-used/re-sold more easily.
@der8auer: have you seen any AM5 motherboards with CAMM2? Do the memory/motherboard makers think AMD would also get benefit from CAMM2 instead of standard DIMMs?
GSkil about to take over entire cooling market
Absolutely crazy tech
CAMM2 needs to be the standard everywhere. Compact form factor, smaller traces, faster speed.
If CAMM2 offers better memory performance for any reason, whether it’s easier to cool or improved frequency and timing from better signal integrity, I’m all for it. I wouldn’t use more than 32-48GB right now anyways, but definitely wouldn’t mind getting more than 8200 with the same or tighter timings than I already use.
10 600 megatransfers now we are talking, good timings too?
Considering CAMM2 is capable of dual channel functionality through one socket, fully utilizing the CPU's capabilities, at higher speeds, and more efficiently, with a lower profile..
I am all for it.
Yes, please.
CAMM2 seems great for SFF builds since you won’t have RAM clearance issues
I'm all for CAMM2 bruv, I'm daily driving a 5600G and am planning to upgrade later to either AM5 or LGA18xx system with iGPU only, would love an easier time OCing the memory
Thing I wonder about CAMM,,,,is ITX motherboard compatibility due to the surface area of the CAMM.
LCD Screens getting out of hand?
Take a look at the tryx panorama x)
And, again, how the tachometer for each fan works when they are daisy-chained?
I don't mind CAMM2 but when people buy them they have to remember that they can't just drop in new memory modules so spec for what your future needs are not your current.
Most likely, when you need more RAM then what you over specked for you'll probably have to buy a new pc anyway and most likely there'll be a new spec like CAMM3 or 4 anyway that will most likely not be backwards compatible
Looking forward to CAMM2. I am hoping Valve picks it up for the next Steam Deck.
That laugh at 6:13 really sounds like KSI... WTF
Is the bird house case design able to hold two radiators up top?
And the price of that CAMM2 ram is?
And works only on X cpu and X motherboard ?