Hey just FYI, the SS2590 Op-Amps do fit in the J2S. There are forum threads showing you how to fit them using dip-8 extenders. They fit pretty good for a DAC that wasn't designed for the larger Op-Amps. Also, I have the AK4499 J2S with two SS2590s Op-Amps installed in a larger wooden case (as opposed to the aluminum case) to make it even easier to fit them inside. It's possible. Edit: Burson Audio 35mm Extension Lead x2
Yes, that's true. I just try to keep my content geared to the average buyer/user and not as much for those who are looking to do significant tweaking and adapting (unless I'm making a specific video on that sort of topic, of course).
Glad to see you were finally able to get the SS2590s. Geshelli deserves much credit for listening to consumers and redesigning their platform to more easily fit these big op amps (it was tricky in the J2S). The J2S/J3 platform with AK 4499EX and SS2590s has set a high bar for sonic performance attainable for under $1k USD invested.
They can be fitted to the XLR outputs as well, but it requires a DIP8 socket adapter to raise the height of the one closest to the jack and a DIP8 extender for the other.
@@TheodoreBreaux Yes, but I found the unit to run a bit warmer than normal. I haven't talked to Geno about it but I will see him in a couple of weeks and will ask.
I was one of the first people to get the Geshelli J3, I originally ordered it with Sparkos SS3602 opamps but after the first month of listening I decided to upgrade to their SS2590 pro discrete opamps. In my system it made a big difference especially with bass texture, dynamics & detail. I’m totally happy with the J3 with the new opamps. I agree with everything in your review including the thought process of going even bigger with the Dayzee. I just couldn’t justify the additional investment and couldn’t be happier to have gone with the J3.
@@BobbyBass-x6i Hi and thanks! I have had the Chord Qutest for 6 years, but sold it recently and just ordered the Cyan 2. I was very happy with the Qutest, but I think the Cyan is somewhat better. I also included a Synergistic Research Pink fuse. They say, than it will even sound better.
The only rolling that I do is when I sit in my car facing downhill with the hand brake off. Smooth, silent, cost effective, highly efficient and as good as anything else on the market for completing the task. 😊😊😊
I have the J2 S and upgraded to Burson v7 vivid on my RCA last month. What an improvement. Apparently Gino is evaluating the Staccato op amps and if they fit, I'm going for that to roll. I just love everyone at Geshelli Labs as they are honest and super helpful.
Great review. The J3 was at the top of my list if I were in the market for a DAC. I would get it over the Dayzee for several reasons. The dual mono design of the Dayzee is technically better, but I question whether it is audibly better. If it is audibly better, I think a really high resolution system would be required to hear the difference and I’m not sure I have that kind of system. Finally, with the J3, I can upgrade the outputs I’m using, single ended or balanced. With the Dayzee, all 8 channels have to be the same which makes op amp swapping VERY expensive. For a cost no object systems, the Dayzee would be the call. For everyone else, I think we would be just fine with the J3.
Hello Larchan - Does the J3 require one 2590 for each of the balance channels and a pair 2590s, stacked for the mono outputs? How is the mono vs the balance output sounds, I have a Schiit Lyr 3. I wish Geshelli would give up the TOSLINK & SPDIF input connections in the front (as no one seems to need them there) and add a I2S connection in the back. Is the J3 balanced section truly a duel mono design? How the the J3 with the 2590 sound vs the Holo Cyan 2?
The front inputs was one of the reasons I had bought a J2S from them 😅 It's a great convenience feature for things that won't be plugged in all the time. With regards to the opamps, the XLR will require two stacked pairs. And a single stacked pair for RCA as you have already said. So all of the slots on the J3 (and J2S) require a dual opamp.
Thanks for the answers, KXP70! As for the design, it's not dual mono - just balanced. You need the Dayzee for dual mono. Also, you can custom order the Geshelli DACs without the front inputs if you want to.
As if tube-rolling wasn't enough. Now I "have" to roll op-amps? I suppose it's nice to have options but I can tell y'all, looking at the boxes (and I mean BOXES) of tubes I have just behind me, I think I'll stick to one rabbit hole. I don't need another one. The warren is crowded enough. The clutter you see isn't only physical. It's mental and financial. I'm looking to upgrade from my OG Topping D70 (dual AKM 4497 pre-factory fire) to a better AKM 4499EXEQ fully balanced DAC and an R2R ladder DAC. I'm willing to take the gamble that I drop ca USD 1500 for an AKM 4499 and don't hear a damn bit of difference compared to my Topping D70. If so, lesson learned. An R2R DAC is more compelling. This future R2R DAC may cost me more than the future delta-sigma DAC, cognizant that production is more costly. An apples to apples DS vs R2R probably means that a DS á USD 1500 equals an R2R that is USD 2000 - USD 3000. Ish. Then there's tube DACs. Not as common as the other two types but I can assure you that if you show me the tube DAC then I have the tubes to roll it with somewhere here in the warren. I got tubes coming out my azz. Used, NOS, common tubes, rare tubes, expensive tubes, cheap tubes. Tubes that are way too big but look cool. Tubes I need. Tubes I will need... maybe. Tubes I'll never need. There should be a warning label on vacuum tube audio kit similar to those ominous warnings found on maps of yore. "There be tubes!" Maybe don't go there.
I understand where you're coming from, Willie. I don't really recommend regular rolling of op-amps so much as finding the best set you can and sticking with them. There's generally a clear line of performance with op-amps so you can safely say the X is better than Y whereas with tubes, so much is about preference. With the J3, I'd just recommend getting it with the 2590 op-amps and forgetting about it after that...
I click though the link in your own notes, and while you talk about SS2590 op amps, they are NOT an option. The Sparkos op amp option is the SS3602. How does that compare to the ones your talking about? So what does that mean?
Lachlan has covered the SS3602 before and concluded it's a good opamp but a tier below the V7 Vivid/Classic. I believe Geshelli want customers to buy/fit the SS2590 themselves as I think they shipped some dacs with them installed but had come loose (or fell out completely) when it arrived to the customers due to the extra size and weight of them. Geshelli could likely provide the SS2590 for you if you email them like Lachlan said, but I think they would still want you to install them yourself when the DAC arrives.
Yes, partly value, but the aluminium is also better for situations where you need to stack the DAC with another device on top (less likely to get damaged).
I'm also wondering about the Holo Audio Cyan 2 R2R NOS DAC. I'm looking at getting something below $2k and I'm struggling to decide between the Cyan 2 at around $1200 or this at $850.
Sadly, Holo got cranky with me for not being completely positive about the Spring DAC so I can't seem to get demo units anymore for their products. I'm also unlikely to prioritise a brand that responds like that to reviews that are anything other than positive.
@@PassionforSound Ah bummer, thank you so much for the information and for taking the time to respond to me! I was leaning J3 for the lower price, and CheapAudioMan has said they are nice people, so this probably pushed me over the edge for a loaded J3.
Nice review.....and very bad annoying background music which makes it hard to listen... especially for elderly people..😊 Why do so many RUclipsrs think that this is professionel? Background music is fine...but not when you are talking to us....thank you ! 😁
I'm sorry you found it distracting. There are many reasons for the background music so I won't try to explain them all here, but I will go back and check which specific tracks I used to see if they're more intrusive than usual so I can avoid tracks like those in the future.
great review. imho, the only thing that's a competitive issue with this dac is the fact there is no pre-amp functionality with variable output. the source selection (with USB card) is fine. this leaves this as an outstanding dac for a legacy system (you can even put it in a "tape in/out" with a premier receiver). but my primary application for my desktop is more "future-fi", so the Eversolo's and the Cambridge Audio's combine the dac with streamers and gain controls for the self powered monitors i use. for my hi-fi though, this is a big winner and if the modded J3 sounds even slightly close to the Dayzee it's a slamdunk for less money than i was expecting to spend updating my 10 year old dac.
Yes, having preamp controls would be nice, but would result in a larger and more expensive DAC. If you're running something like an EverSolo DMP-A6, you could always run the output from that to the J3 and use the volume control on the EverSolo.
It's to do with the cost of shipping and the impact that has on warranty returns, etc. I believe they're looking into distributor options so that local distributors can handle warranty and repair without the units having to be shipped back to the US.
Hey just FYI, the SS2590 Op-Amps do fit in the J2S. There are forum threads showing you how to fit them using dip-8 extenders. They fit pretty good for a DAC that wasn't designed for the larger Op-Amps.
Also, I have the AK4499 J2S with two SS2590s Op-Amps installed in a larger wooden case (as opposed to the aluminum case) to make it even easier to fit them inside. It's possible.
Edit: Burson Audio 35mm Extension Lead x2
Yes, that's true. I just try to keep my content geared to the average buyer/user and not as much for those who are looking to do significant tweaking and adapting (unless I'm making a specific video on that sort of topic, of course).
Glad to see you were finally able to get the SS2590s. Geshelli deserves much credit for listening to consumers and redesigning their platform to more easily fit these big op amps (it was tricky in the J2S). The J2S/J3 platform with AK 4499EX and SS2590s has set a high bar for sonic performance attainable for under $1k USD invested.
I completely agree!
J3 Pro here with Burson v7 Vivid's and Fiio PL50 Linear Power Supply. Sublime.
I guess the next video will be comparing power supplies for this DAC.
No. Going from the wall wart to a nice power supply is a decent upgrade, but it doesn't warrant a whole video.
The 2590 dual dip 8 chip will fit in the single ended out of the J2S. That's how run mine. I did a video on it. Love you channel. Thx.
They can be fitted to the XLR outputs as well, but it requires a DIP8 socket adapter to raise the height of the one closest to the jack and a DIP8 extender for the other.
@@TheodoreBreaux Yes, but I found the unit to run a bit warmer than normal. I haven't talked to Geno about it but I will see him in a couple of weeks and will ask.
Thanks for including context of linear power upgrades recognizing the improvement and managing expectations.
My pleasure!
I was one of the first people to get the Geshelli J3, I originally ordered it with Sparkos SS3602 opamps but after the first month of listening I decided to upgrade to their SS2590 pro discrete opamps. In my system it made a big difference especially with bass texture, dynamics & detail. I’m totally happy with the J3 with the new opamps. I agree with everything in your review including the thought process of going even bigger with the Dayzee. I just couldn’t justify the additional investment and couldn’t be happier to have gone with the J3.
The J3 is a brilliant balance of size, cost and performance. I'm so glad you're enjoying it!
Is this DAC better than the Holy May Cyan 2, my favorite at this moment?
I love my Holo Audio Cyan 2. The best I’ve heard under $2K US. Detailed and not harsh. Wish it had a control on the front to switch between inputs.
@@BobbyBass-x6i Hi and thanks! I have had the Chord Qutest for 6 years, but sold it recently and just ordered the Cyan 2. I was very happy with the Qutest, but I think the Cyan is somewhat better. I also included a Synergistic Research Pink fuse. They say, than it will even sound better.
I haven't tried the Holo Cyan and it's unlikely that I will... Sorry.
I've been waiting for this video... Thank you for your insights and knowledge.
My pleasure. I'm glad it was helpful!
The only rolling that I do is when I sit in my car facing downhill with the hand brake off. Smooth, silent, cost effective, highly efficient and as good as anything else on the market for completing the task. 😊😊😊
😂
Any comparisons with the denafrips ares series of dacs? Ares 2...12th...15th....
I reviewed the Ares II a few years ago and wasn't much a fan. I haven't tried the latest versions so I can't really compare them for you. Sorry.
I have the J2 S and upgraded to Burson v7 vivid on my RCA last month. What an improvement.
Apparently Gino is evaluating the Staccato op amps and if they fit, I'm going for that to roll.
I just love everyone at Geshelli Labs as they are honest and super helpful.
So glad you're enjoying the upgraded J2S!
Great review. The J3 was at the top of my list if I were in the market for a DAC. I would get it over the Dayzee for several reasons. The dual mono design of the Dayzee is technically better, but I question whether it is audibly better. If it is audibly better, I think a really high resolution system would be required to hear the difference and I’m not sure I have that kind of system. Finally, with the J3, I can upgrade the outputs I’m using, single ended or balanced. With the Dayzee, all 8 channels have to be the same which makes op amp swapping VERY expensive. For a cost no object systems, the Dayzee would be the call. For everyone else, I think we would be just fine with the J3.
I generally agree with all of this and the J3 is already such a great DAC that it will be plenty good enough for many people.
I couldn't be happier with mine. All my gear is single ended so I only needed one set of 2590s.
Using speakers BTW, not headphones.
Nice. Glad you're enjoying it and the cost savings of running single ended!
I'm wondering what would happen if you pair an erish 3 with the ss2590s and a j3 with the vivid pros...
It would sound great. You'd be even better off if the J3 also had 2590s, but the V7 Vivids get pretty close.
@@PassionforSound I'll have to contact them and see if I can get the 2590s then! Thanks!
Great video. The ss2590 fits in the RCA side of the j2s with a riser from sparkos but not in the xlr
Yes. You can adapt the 2590s with some fiddling and mess, but that's where the J3 redesign is so much easier. 🙂
Hello Larchan - Does the J3 require one 2590 for each of the balance channels and a pair 2590s, stacked for the mono outputs? How is the mono vs the balance output sounds, I have a Schiit Lyr 3.
I wish Geshelli would give up the TOSLINK & SPDIF input connections in the front (as no one seems to need them there) and add a I2S connection in the back.
Is the J3 balanced section truly a duel mono design?
How the the J3 with the 2590 sound vs the Holo Cyan 2?
The front inputs was one of the reasons I had bought a J2S from them 😅
It's a great convenience feature for things that won't be plugged in all the time.
With regards to the opamps, the XLR will require two stacked pairs. And a single stacked pair for RCA as you have already said.
So all of the slots on the J3 (and J2S) require a dual opamp.
Thanks for the answers, KXP70!
As for the design, it's not dual mono - just balanced. You need the Dayzee for dual mono.
Also, you can custom order the Geshelli DACs without the front inputs if you want to.
got it, its awesome! great synergy with with archel 3 pro :)
Just wish the Archel had XLR out.
There's always the E3 Pro
@@PassionforSound wanting those tone controls......
Yep. E3 Pro has those too 😁
As if tube-rolling wasn't enough. Now I "have" to roll op-amps? I suppose it's nice to have options but I can tell y'all, looking at the boxes (and I mean BOXES) of tubes I have just behind me, I think I'll stick to one rabbit hole. I don't need another one. The warren is crowded enough. The clutter you see isn't only physical. It's mental and financial.
I'm looking to upgrade from my OG Topping D70 (dual AKM 4497 pre-factory fire) to a better AKM 4499EXEQ fully balanced DAC and an R2R ladder DAC. I'm willing to take the gamble that I drop ca USD 1500 for an AKM 4499 and don't hear a damn bit of difference compared to my Topping D70. If so, lesson learned. An R2R DAC is more compelling. This future R2R DAC may cost me more than the future delta-sigma DAC, cognizant that production is more costly. An apples to apples DS vs R2R probably means that a DS á USD 1500 equals an R2R that is USD 2000 - USD 3000. Ish.
Then there's tube DACs. Not as common as the other two types but I can assure you that if you show me the tube DAC then I have the tubes to roll it with somewhere here in the warren.
I got tubes coming out my azz. Used, NOS, common tubes, rare tubes, expensive tubes, cheap tubes. Tubes that are way too big but look cool. Tubes I need. Tubes I will need... maybe. Tubes I'll never need.
There should be a warning label on vacuum tube audio kit similar to those ominous warnings found on maps of yore. "There be tubes!"
Maybe don't go there.
buy audio gd r28
I understand where you're coming from, Willie. I don't really recommend regular rolling of op-amps so much as finding the best set you can and sticking with them. There's generally a clear line of performance with op-amps so you can safely say the X is better than Y whereas with tubes, so much is about preference. With the J3, I'd just recommend getting it with the 2590 op-amps and forgetting about it after that...
I click though the link in your own notes, and while you talk about SS2590 op amps, they are NOT an option. The Sparkos op amp option is the SS3602. How does that compare to the ones your talking about? So what does that mean?
Lachlan has covered the SS3602 before and concluded it's a good opamp but a tier below the V7 Vivid/Classic.
I believe Geshelli want customers to buy/fit the SS2590 themselves as I think they shipped some dacs with them installed but had come loose (or fell out completely) when it arrived to the customers due to the extra size and weight of them.
Geshelli could likely provide the SS2590 for you if you email them like Lachlan said, but I think they would still want you to install them yourself when the DAC arrives.
Another great reply that covers everything I would have said. Best bet is to email Geshelli and chat to them about your options.
Why do you believe the aluminium case is the better option? Does this carry over to the Dayzee?
I think he simply meant in terms of the DAC's value proposition as the wood cases pushes the prices up.
Yes, partly value, but the aluminium is also better for situations where you need to stack the DAC with another device on top (less likely to get damaged).
Seels like SS2590s is out of stock? The only available option right now for the JNOG3 is SS3602
No, they never list it as an option so you'd need to email them directly about getting the 2590s.
@@PassionforSound ok thanks for the info!
I'm also wondering about the Holo Audio Cyan 2 R2R NOS DAC. I'm looking at getting something below $2k and I'm struggling to decide between the Cyan 2 at around $1200 or this at $850.
Sadly, Holo got cranky with me for not being completely positive about the Spring DAC so I can't seem to get demo units anymore for their products. I'm also unlikely to prioritise a brand that responds like that to reviews that are anything other than positive.
@@PassionforSound Ah bummer, thank you so much for the information and for taking the time to respond to me! I was leaning J3 for the lower price, and CheapAudioMan has said they are nice people, so this probably pushed me over the edge for a loaded J3.
Nice review.....and very bad annoying background music which makes it hard to listen... especially for elderly people..😊
Why do so many RUclipsrs think that this is professionel? Background music is fine...but not when you are talking to us....thank you ! 😁
I'm sorry you found it distracting. There are many reasons for the background music so I won't try to explain them all here, but I will go back and check which specific tracks I used to see if they're more intrusive than usual so I can avoid tracks like those in the future.
Would be convenient if they offered the 2590's on their website.
great review. imho, the only thing that's a competitive issue with this dac is the fact there is no pre-amp functionality with variable output. the source selection (with USB card) is fine.
this leaves this as an outstanding dac for a legacy system (you can even put it in a "tape in/out" with a premier receiver). but my primary application for my desktop is more "future-fi", so the Eversolo's and the Cambridge Audio's combine the dac with streamers and gain controls for the self powered monitors i use. for my hi-fi though, this is a big winner and if the modded J3 sounds even slightly close to the Dayzee it's a slamdunk for less money than i was expecting to spend updating my 10 year old dac.
Yes, having preamp controls would be nice, but would result in a larger and more expensive DAC. If you're running something like an EverSolo DMP-A6, you could always run the output from that to the J3 and use the volume control on the EverSolo.
Great video as always. Thx !
My pleasure!
Seems like they won’t sell the DAYZEE to Australia or maybe anywhere overseas. Seems odd!
It's to do with the cost of shipping and the impact that has on warranty returns, etc. I believe they're looking into distributor options so that local distributors can handle warranty and repair without the units having to be shipped back to the US.
I've got a pair of V6 Vivid for sale if anyone is interested and lives in the EU.
Sorry, I cannot finish the review as the background music is Very annoying.