WC3 | GRAND FINAL | [HU] Fortitude vs Eer0 [UD] | Dolphin Warcraft Championship Cup CN Qualifier
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- Опубликовано: 28 ноя 2024
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📆 Date: November 6th, 2024
#warcraft3 #back2warcraft #dolphin
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Spoiler Shield
what is the spoiler shield?
@@israelser7467 imagine a user comments "Wow player A really owned this series with his fantastic micro"
And this comment gets pinned on top of all other comments, so you could see it unintentionally just below the video before you have actually watched it, you might already know the winner of this series.
Very annoying if you want to enjoy the tension of the last match at 3:3 in a BO7.
So this smart little fella made the "spoiler shield"-comment, which we gave a 'Like' so it stays on top of the other comments, and this won't happen ❤
@@kiliantaxacher2611 aahhh!! thanks
@@kiliantaxacher2611 So that's why. I forgot most people don't use PC or Newpipe to watch youtube.
Heck yeah
What a weekend, favourite caster and President is back
Exactly, Surangel Whipps Jr. - is also your favorite president? My man!
If happy wins, people complain that UD is op. If fortitude wins, people say HU is op.
Always complaining...
if happy and fortitude each won 50% of tournaments...
I think at this point I think it's fairly safe to say the UD HU match up heavily favored the human player.
AM water elemental yoloing at the haunted gold mine all day early game into unkillable knights late game + roflcopter
AM base mana /water elemental need
a nerd for early game
HU end game comp need nerf /other race need a buff
How about Burning Legion? I haven't seen them win a match since the campaign! Totally underpowered.
@henrychu5918 I agree, but also footmen are just too easy to mass and have enough hp to be easily saved. Ghouls die so fast to lvl 2 wele and am so you're constantly having to rebuild them. AM can just back off, heal all his units up, and come back for more cancels. Ghouls need a small buff and AM needs nerf. Also UD late game army is shit, where HU can play damn near any unit and do well
Indeed, I started growing an animosity towards this community. Rarely you see discussions on micro, some particular highlight, only complaints, almost 100% of the time. It's like people don't even want to enjoy the freakin game
How do you guys decide on overlays? The one Remo was using yesterday and I remember it was also standard before is just so superior to this one. Can you do some voting on this?
Sappers coming through with the WOOOO!!~
120 played Not too well. Thats why he lost... Why doesnt he Just stay DL (the one map he won and perfect counter to Fortis playstyle) and let find forti find an answer to it? Just Bad decision making in my opinion. Gg anyways
Who eliminated happy before the grand final? Sorry for asking this, but in the playlist videos there’s no video with happy losing
Nerf HU when?
Nerf sappers :D
Nerf fortitude
When sok and ToD destroy happy 3-0. Bro forti is monster for now. You all acting like it's some kind of disgrace for UD not winnong every single tournament. And when it happend twice in a row you all want to nerf hum 😂 He found timing against UD but still struggling against best orc's for example.
@@dariuszdzwigala5602 Im a simple guy 3 or 4 dif UD players lose constantly to 1 race it's time for nerf hammer
go, go, go Forti, it is your birthday 😄😄😄😄😄
Called it years ago, HU is seriously OP. Let me explain.
Peak HU such as th000 and Infi were putting equal fight against peak Happy (who is widely considered the best UD) already years ago back in around 2019-2020, BEFORE most HU buffs (and UD nerfs) took place. 120 is very successful too of course, but I am using Happy as an example because he's the one people usually focus on. It is of course tricky to talk about balance, because player skill level factors into everything and the player pool is small. But this time period as well as the time before Happy came along was mostly HU domination, so I doubt it could be considered "weak" as a race back then. For the sake of discussing balance, among UD and HU I would consider th000, Infi and Happy at their peak to be somewhat equal in skill level. I think most would agree. No one else has had as much success with the respective races before the heavy hand at balancing began.
Despite this previous somewhat equal (albeit short) competitive situation, for many years now HU has been considered a weak race, even though they have been buffed in some capacity almost every patch and respectively UD has been nerfed (some buffs too, but the overall UD is weaker compared to 2019-2020, especially vs HU). At this current time, overall HU is MUCH stronger than it was in 2019-2020. I doubt anyone would disagree, at least if you have followed the patch notes. However, considering the prior success of HU and ineffectiveness of buffs (until recently), I believe it to be quite clear that the low amount of HU success during these past few years is mostly due to both th000 and Infi quitting pro play. The humans left (Fortitude, Sok, etc.) were not at the same level as th000, Infi or Happy. That's why HU buffs and UD nerfs didn't initially have a lot of effect. The lack of S rank HU player has created a seemingly "imbalanced" situation where HU could almost never win UD / Happy (or 120, who is a little bit inconsistent but sometimes same level as Happy or even greater on rare occasions). There was basically no real competition from the HU side vs. UD.
This has now changed, partly due to Fortitude improving and partly due to the buffs. When balancing the game, if you don't factor in the player performance and just look at the race stats, you are going to get bad balance because of the small player pool. As I said, overall HU is much stronger than it was in 2019-2020, when Happy was ALREADY struggling against th000 and infi. How can you justify all these buffs on an already strong race? Now, because Fortitude has improved and started reaching higher levels, you can see the true potential of Human that was already there all the time. However, the balance is now skewed because it has been focusing on nerfing one player (Happy) and buffing one race (HU).
All of this balancing affects other races too of course. Balancing has been too focused on HU (Fortitude and Sok) vs UD (Happy). Nelf is left behind, Orcs is left behind. We are left with a game that has been balanced around a few players of unequal skill level. Orc and Nelf have some good strengths, but their ways to play against equal HU or UD are somewhat limited. It is tricky to balance, but HU should be definitely nerfed, Orc and Nelf receive some changes and then look at the position of UD again. Unfortunately for now, the game is bordering unwatchable.
Sir, this is a Wendy's
I am happy for you or sad that it happened, cause i aint reading that
Undead too weak rn
Orc too weak rn
game 5 was crazy with the sappers, he was so rich but stuck on tier one with the late upgrade, threw away all his footmen on nothing, and then boom, game over
Lich (1) + DK (2) + necros -> attack -> Forti's lack of tech should make an early necro push viable no?
Yeah stay at campaign mode bro
How many necros/wagons would you be abke to get and how much mana do you think these necros would have when you push? Youd have like 4 necros 1 wagon and 1 statue. The footies/ towers/ wele/ MK would just roll through it
@@teslation Long time since I played, but I was a top NA Ud, so this kind of response is not only useless (we're just theory crafting here), but is also unnecessarily condescending
@@christophercain7175 Usually Forti starts with AM, so if he has MK that means he's at Tier II. The attack should happen before that, but if not, you'd damn well have more than 4 necros and 1 wagon...
@ apologies if that offended u but u know its how we talk on wc3 chat… im old too here i played since 2003
So basically 120 in this series tried all the available heros "except tavern " and yet their is no answers to am with elementals
Did not he won with dl? Or dl is an orc hero?
@Biobin123 yea forti got by surprise, but still not legitimate answer to am
I know there have been a lot of small nerfs to UN but the one that stands out to me still is the removal of heal scrolls from item shops.
Ya, that completely removed ghoul and gargoyle gameplay making it more predictable
It was necessary for 2 reasons:
1. Ud has ton of healing compared to it to orc options and you will understand
2. And this is huge , h scroll and invul is an advantage of map control in late game no race should have it for free.
Question is what can be added to ud shop to balance out? Wand is great on paper but kind of seems meh in real games.
fcking thank Lord finally some non-cryptlord games ...
27:11 nice timing
I am now taking bets on if Fortitude and Happy are just match fixing because they themselves placed bets on how many people would complain about Human or Undead being OP in the comments.
Triple staff, mass tanks, mass air, triple anti UD hero and people are surprised this game isnt popular anymore.
I wouldnt play this for money thats how boring and unfair it is to play against something like this...
Just because Forti is that good, doesnt mean HU r op
Did u say the same back when HU couldnt scratch Happy? but no one other than Happy could humble humans 🤷🏻♂️
1. Name 1 hu player other than forty who has won any significant tournament since 2021
2. Yea if you allow hu get 3 heroes with good lvl and items tanks flying machines knights gryphons priest all with their unique upgrades on top of 3-3 while you are still on t1 units with no upgrades hu can win , it has an advantage sure. But maybe you should get at least t2 units like banshees that counters knights gryphon tanks and mk ? I don’t know either that or ghouls should be buffed so ud can win with just 1 ghoul against t3 80 supply army while gathering lumber.
120 is the one who's too zero to compete with the best players
Why does UD even try to fast expand vs HU, it can't be done, why not just destroying human expo while playing one base? They loose so much time and resources for defending expo it's mindboggling
well funny thing about this series is 120 has tried all strats at least once, one base fiends lose to footman and not good vs towers. UD rush Destroyers to counter Water and towers, but Forti timed it perfectly spam many towers and holds off 3 destoryers push. While counter push UD base with AM water Footman. UD lose base and HU base hold.
UD don't even try catapult T2 push my guess is AM water will snipe off catas easily.
main problem for UD is, they don't have T2 dispells. their dispel item is a joke 200g, 100g per use and only do 200 damage to a 600hp water.
because human defenses were heavily buffed in last years: arcane tower burn more mana, peasants have more hp, militia get extra time. +20 hp buffs to peasants was a bad joke
because you cant stop hu fast exp
If Gyros wreck destroyers and gargs and Knights wreck fiends on ground, I don’t understand where is the “balance” there, What unit does UD wrecks Human with? I don’t get it… banshees? They need such a long time to make which you clearly don’t have for human early advantage on T1 and they need to be microed PERFECTLY and you need towers aswell to gain the mana for possession, which can easily be countered with either Staves (which should be allowed for all clases) or any stumble or just focus fire…. So again, where is the balance? Do all in fight abos? And what counters air fight? It makes little sense to me
Not even coil nova works anymore…. UD is ruined, hope yall “happy”
I don't understand why UD keeps pressuring HU expand when main base is undefended. HU keeps making towers in his expand and UD keeps attacking it. Why so one dimensional? Just go to main and get it for free!
Main is guarded too with farms barracks you will siege units like raiders to do meaningful damage on top of that attacking main means faster reinforcements so not a good idea mate
militia is need no time to come from main base. And militia dps is absurd high.
Cause it worked all those years. Ud gets ghouls end game vs every race. Now they are forced to think before attacking and it’s too much. Nerf hu buff ud do ghoul push wins again no matter what opponents do!
@@Biobin123 ud used ghouls not in endgame, but to prevent endgame where they have zeero chances vs any race
@@nightyonetwothree
I wasn’t talking to you and i said “ used ghouls to end game “ not “ endgame “ .
*"We come in peace!"*
Eer0 really left too early at the second game.
ud need up, imho!
Moare MK games ! Go Alliance !
Only Lyn is the real threat right now even happy gets defeated quite easily by forti
NEO, let me give you a small feedback on your nice casting
Screaming is fine, but man, everytime you i hear you casting king, you have tendencie to exaggerate what you see and thats just not professional way to actually comment on stuff. It's hard to connect to you than, becouse we have tendencie to stay aware and not fallin into it completly.
Thanks!
@@Back2Warcraftdon’t listen to that bozo you the man
Did anyone in the comments consider the fact that Forti is a better player right now?
@@skullmanwizard when all humans top players are beating ud top players, I don't think that's because of some form of fortitude evolution thing
@@hassanhaddad3739 all human players? It is just Forti. Sok and other human have no tournament win. Let's give him credit. So many surround, deny, manages defense and offense at the same time perfectly. Same level as peak happy.
According to ppl in the comments Undead players are the only ones who can win because of their skill. If anyone else beats an Undead player it is all about balance issues
@@aaronsung6208 if you see the last games in this Channel"undead vs humans matchup" you Will see forti Beats 120 two times in a row , infi Beats 120 in best of five, Happy beaing dominanted by forti .
I am not the type of person Who Jump to conclusiones ,i observe then i come to conclusiones.
@@aaronsung6208 the last 5 games in this Channel undead vs humans
Infi Beats err
Forti Beats err two times
Forti Beats Happy two times
I dont Jump to conclusions
I observe then i come to conclusions
It's so predictable nowadays that human win that im surprised when undead can win a game...
Ok Fortitude is good. But men … ud is so weak these days, nerf stomp them
sick of the same meta. this matchup sucks and i don't even care who wins. don't want to balance whine, but it's the lack of something that allows every alliance-ud game to turn into this, like it's the only viable option for both sides, any variation is risk and loss.
I agree. I hope they buff different units or do changes to prevent having the same gameplay over and over again
@@YOLOSWAG420_ I guess meta means different things to me. Haven't watched warcraft for half year or so. Back then human normally played defensively and trying to survive by all means. Now Fortitude is playing ultra aggressive constantly attacking expansion and main base. Meta is very different, even though heroes picks are mostly the same.