USS Scorpion and USS Thresher Wreckage
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- Опубликовано: 14 окт 2024
- In November 2013, I filed a freedom of information act request for more pictures/video of the wreckage of the USS Scorpion. The only pictures I could find were those taken in the 80's which are pretty commonly available. Since the boat had nuclear tipped torpedoes, the Navy checks the site every couple of years to insure it hasn't been disturbed. This is part of the response I received. This is from the expedition Ballard performed (when he also went looking for the Titanic). Parts of this mission not shown is Ballard using the ROV to gain access to the forward compartment and check the torpedo status (again, nuclear tipped).
Update: With the recent Titan incident, this video has been seeing an uptick in traffic. While most comments have been respectful, I've been having to delete some as well. Please do not use this video to peddle your conspiracy theories or political views; this is a disservice to the men who lost their lives on these boats.
Also, you're welcome to use clips from this video in your own. With this, please cite properly and link back to this video in your description when doing so.
I worked with a guy who's brother was on the Scorpion crew, but became ill and wound up hospitalized and missed her ill-fated departure. The fact that he was replaced by someone who was not a regular part of the crew always haunted him.
Survivors' guilt is all too common sadly.
Everyone on here worked with that guy. Each and every one of us has that knew a guy who knew a guy story. The (imagination) mind is a terrible thing to waste…
The plankowner list is available. Can easily determine many stories.
@@AA-ke5cuPlease post the link
He... he was the one. He was the one who I always hear about in a very shallow mention about a medical transfer. I don't believe in a god, but he certainly had some purpose left to serve
I'm an old Sturgeon class submariner during the 1980s and 1990s. When I volunteered for submarine duty, I had never heard of the Thresher or Scorpion. During my service years, I learned alot about each catastrophe. I thought of those lost sailors many times as I was poking holes in the ocean. I still think of them long after my submarine days are over.
Me as well, SSN 662, USS Gurnard.
@@RichardHowie Me too; SSN-678 Archerfish
I was a submariner during Vietnam, I like you had heard very little
I am an army infantryman and have been for eleven years now and some people call my job crazy but I can not imagine being on a sub!!!! Hats off to you sir and thanks for doing the job I don’t think I ever could.
Incredible service, those of you who ride below the waves. Cut from very special cloth, indeed. Thank you 🇺🇸
My grandfather in the sixties and seventies he worked in the authorities' port of Naples and remembered the sailors uss skorpion happy because 'departed for America, he speak with one of them at the bar and when he tells me always crying' cause he learned from the newspapers that the poor sailor was among the missing ... rest in peace skorpion from Naples and its citizens
That voice in the second half of the video you hear talking about "Alvin" is Dr. Robert Ballard, who found the Titanic on the same mission. Believe it or not, Dr. Ballard was a captain in the US Navy Reserves, and his cover story to find the Titanic was given to him so he could photograph the Scorpion, who's location is still classified so that the Soviets couldn't snoop around it.He used the same technology he used a few days later to find the Titanic to photograph and map the Scorpion's wreck for the Navy, they then told him to use his remaining days after he fulfilled his mission to look or the Titanic to complete the cover story...and he ended up actually finding it.
Interesting, only trouble is Wikipedia gives the location lol.. it states: Located on the seabed of the Atlantic Ocean, 32°55′N 33°09′W,[2] in 3,000 m (9,800 ft) of water, 740 km (400 nmi) southwest of the Azores. Interestingly though, Titanic's location isn't listed as it's a protected site.
@@LindaTCornwall that's because Scorpion is in International waters, thus no one country can claim it. The only times you can a wreck is if it is near certain waters..
@dražen g I didn't know that. Thanks for info
@dražen g And now, an Argentinian sub has died. God rest the crew.
I was stationed in Rota, Spain, on the USS Canopus, AS34 at the time the Scorpion arrived. As a member of a refit division, I was ordered to obtain specific information from our technical library. After that I was able to chat with a few of the sailors standing topside on the Scorpion. Following the Scorpion's departure, we learned of her being lost. Our refit shop was stunned and remained gloomy for some time.
I too was on the Canopus at that very time, one of the Scorpion's crew was assigned to my shop temporarily due to a positive TB test. He therefore missed his boat when it left and was saved. Ironically a second TB test was negative. Don't recall his name but he was a PO1.
Светлая память всем погибшим морякам, неважно какой нации или страны.
K19 crew
My hat is off to all who served and were lost !
Amen to that! 🙏🏼🫡😔
AMEN to that. USMC here. Best comment here. Much respect to my old cold war adversaries....
Thank you. Are you Russian? The Kursk was a dreadful tragedy.
Incredible service, those of you who ride below the waves. Cut from very special cloth, indeed. Thank you 🇺🇸
Awesome footage; thanks for uploading. I qualified on USS Bergall (SSN-667) in 1980. We did a DSRV mother-sub op in Aug 1978 with DSRV-1 Mystic; and later I served aboard DSV Turtle (DSV-3). We had several visits with DSV Alvin crewmembers when Atlantis II came to operate in the Pacific. The loss of Thresher and Scorpion were always close aboard; we were taught Rickover's zero tolerance for error mindset from the moment I stepped into Sub School, to the day I retired in Sept 1998. This footage incredible, and should be used at the conclusion of Tolling the Lost Boats ceremony.
Thank you for your service! 🙏🏼🫡🇺🇸
Joe, thanks for posting this. The loss of these boats were heavy on our minds. We were always told to make sure our paperwork and affairs were in order before going on patrols.
I have nothing but admiration for the men , and now women, of this the silent service.
My husband met many when he worked in Scotland on the US Navy base in the Holy Loch in the 60’s.
He’s a Scot but these were the toughest , and, in his opinion, bravest men he had ever met. 👵🇦🇺🇺🇸
& many don't know, but it's very hard to even get on a sub. The Navy chooses the best of the best.
I think it's pretty well understood that when the internal explosion holed "Scorpion", the following implosion at depth was instantaneous, and the crew knew only of a "situation being handled". "Thresher's" crew, terribly, had to wait and listen to their ship to fail, while they helplessly tried to remedy an impossible situation of physics.
exactly what happens inside a 270ft nuclear powered fast attack sub like this when the hull implodes? doesn't the water compress an air pocket in any compartment in the sub to the point where it just explodes violently?
derek wall It's a steel bubble that compresses on all sides equally, much like a Diesel cylinder. Under those forces, I would imagine the air temperature raises instantaneously, but there is insufficient temperature to cause ignition of substances. The bubble escapes the steel sherds and races to the surface, while the flooded steel hull and what's left inside it, falls to the ocean bed. It's a violent, but mercifully quick death.
PRR5406 quick but violent from the way it sounds. but either way it would suck to die trapped inside a steel coffin only to end up 9000ft down on the ocean floor. but I suppose the worst way to die would be a radiation leak from her nuclear reactor.
derek wall After 28 years building, testing and refueling nucs since 1960, if you knew HOW they are designed and built, contamination "leakage" is the last thing to think or worry about. In this case, forget it.
Red Woods I thought so, I read somewhere that the pressure vessel is corrosion resistant and able to withstand long periods of undersea salt exposure
Fifty years ago today. Rest their souls.
My deepest sympathy Go out to those for whom this is the only way they can see their fathers, grandfathers, husbands, brothers and so forth. may they rest in peace.
Thank you for posting this without any narration, music, or bullshit comments.
Navy family here. We were just sick when we heard of both. I was in high school and remember both well. My parents were especially affected, as they lost family in ships during the Guadalcanal Campaign. Never forget these men
Thank you Galen for your expert treatise on this subject. I know little of such things but the subject of the USN Thresher has captivated me since I first read about it in National Geographic as a child in the early 60s.
ruclips.net/video/HV5FGTxIU4Q/видео.html
Lest we forget on this day, 10 April 1963, 129 souls.
We (USS Sturgeon SSN 637) were called in off leave to join in the search for the missing boat. After two weeks of active pinging off the bottom some distance from the Azores we found nothing. I’ve often thought it could have just as easily been me.
I also served on the Sturgeon.
Thanks to these men who gave their lives serving their country! I hope there is some kind of plaque on the wreck thanking the crew for their service....
The USN lists all the lost subs as being on Eternal Patrol.
Unfortunately due to a person that could not "take my advice" and leave me alone as I requested, I had to delete my previous comment. Sadly, RUclips does not allow comments to be disabled unless the original link to the video is your own.
Hopefully this person really does leave me alone. Calling me stupid in an effort to get me to read his book about his theory of the death of my father does not bode well with me.
Joe Guerra, I would suggest you block this person as well and save us all some grief. I've been in rather pointed conversations before with people like this, and his actions are entirely uncalled for.
With that being said, thank you Joe Guerra for sharing this video. 2018 will mark the 50th anniversary of the loss of 99 brave men on the Scorpion. None of them I ever knew, including my father, as I was only 6 months old.
much respect to you
Thats really tragic
The author of The book “blind mans bluff” goes deep into detail and in my mind correctly concludes that the cause of the scorpions demise was from torpedo battery fire leading to low yield explosion, therefore blowing the hatches in the torpedo room, but rupturing the pressure hull. Dr Craven did extensive research on this theory and it has the most likely explanation in my opinion
FYI, if you're not aware already, the video edition of "Blind Mans Bluff" is here on RUclips. Book was excellent.
The book was amazing. A must read if you are a fan of Subs.
Reading now. It's a fascinating account!
The theory on Scorpion was it was a “hot run” on a torpedo. It’s a little more complicated than a battery fire. Torpedo’s aren’t bombs. They are complex self piloting underwater vehicles with a warhead. What this means is they require maintenance and inspection and testing on a regular basis. But there was a known but largely covered up issue with the torpedo’s Scorpion was carrying. On occasion when connecting the test leads to the batteries during maintenance, a hot run would occur. The torpedo would trigger as if fired, start spinning and arm itself. And once it reached what it calculated to be its set distance, explode. Since the room around it would trigger its proximity sensors. Once this started the only way to stop it was to spin the torpedo 180 degrees so it’s safety sensors would kick in. The torpedo’s had a safety system to shut them down if they turned 180 and started heading towards their own boat. Typically the fastest way to spin the torpedo the needed 180 degrees was to do a hard turn to spin the entire sub onto a reverse heading. But they would only have a minute to do this. Assuming it worked.
Part of the evidence for this theory is Scorpion should have been heading West across the Atlantic towards Norfolk. And last known contacts had her traveling West. But when found Ballard found her she was pointed East. The assumption being she had swung East to try and shut down a hot torpedo. Which was the trained response.
@@andrewtaylor940 Thanks Andrew for info. Very interesting
Никогда никому не узнать, что думали моряки в последние секунды жизни!!!!!! Вечная им память
Same fate as our russian brother on k19 widowmaker rip to them all
@@frankcampeau1033 Russian brothers, MY ASS. Those greedy savages are now trying to murder an entire nation to steal their land. Thousands of mothers and children murdered. Already having 1/6 of the whole world's land filled with resources is not enough for the greedy bastards. What's wrong with you, man? Русские братья, МОЙ ASS. Эти жадные мясники теперь пытаются убить нацию, чтобы украсть их землю. Тысячи матерей и детей убиты. Уже иметь 1/6 всей земли мира, заполненной ресурсами, мало для жадных ублюдков.
@@frankcampeau1033that's the name of a movie not of a ship
Ditto Davids thought's, respect to the crew and the crews families - from an ex-Royal Navy man
Thresher was on a post refit, test-depth dive and was not armed with any undersea weapons at the time of her loss with all hands and civilian personnel. USS Scorpion, lost five years later, was carrying two ASTOR (anti-submarine torpedoes) at the time it was lost while on operational patrol. My name is Stephen Johnson and I'm the author of "Silent Steel: The Mysterious Death of the Nuclear Attack Sub USS Scorpion". My book is the only nonfiction book on the subject
Stephen - I am currently half way through your book, and I want to say that I am deeply moved by what I have read so far. I have been hesitant to read any sensationalized accounts of either the loss of the Thresher or the Scorpion, but your book was praised in several sub groups I belong to. As a Navy submariner who served on two boomers and one fast boat from 1978 until 1984, and who was the M-Div Sub Safe Petty Officer for the fast boat, I am appalled at the description of the poor maintenance practices and attitudes of the upper chain of command towards the fast boats in the 60's. My heart goes out to my lost brothers on both boats and their families. I spent some time in PSNY, where mention of the Thresher was not a welcome topic. Submarines are beautiful, complex, and dangerous machines; I would not trade my experience for any other. Thank you for the respect I feel that you have shown this subject.
There is a book called 'All Hands Down' which claims to be non-fiction and claims that the Russians sank the Scorpion for retaliation of another event. I personally believe the hot run theory.
Reading Blind Man's Bluff: The Untold Story of American Submarine Espionage. But will check yours too. Thanks!
@@michaelgromek8257 Was it formal retaliation, or a Soviet submarine commander who thought he'd make a name for himself?
@@RichardBonomo they said it was revenge for the sinking of K-129, a Golf 2 submarine that sank I think 1500 miles off of Hawaii
I was about 8 years old when the USS Thresher was lost, my mom and me prayed for recovery.
My sympathies for those lost on the USS Thresher and the USS Scorpion.
My father was a former US Naval officer and a scientist. Dad helped build the very first atomic reactors for submarines/ Admiral Rickover's program/ Westinghouse Corporation ! I clearly remember the Thresher disaster! I was only a child but dad was clearly concerned and so were his co- workers! They were relieved when it was not caused by the reactor but something to do with leaking pipes! Of course, leaking pipes prevented the reactor from functioning to cool down the reactor! RIP to all 129 men who perished in the Thresher!
Shock hands with Admiral Rickover when he visited CGN 25 USS BAINBRIDGE
I was on the USS Michigan SSBN 727. I remember learning about the Thresher. It was a failed EMBT blow, hi-pressure air somehow had moisture in them (was 4500 psi on our boat). They were on sea trials, angles and dangles, then an emergency surface from what I heard.
Silver brazed joints versus welded on the valves...
I qualified on the USS Dace (SSN 607), the sister ship that replaced the Thresher in SUBDEVGRU 2 in the Groton sub base. The high-pressure air tanks that are located outside of the pressure hull stored HP air at 4500 psi.
When the boat blows MBTs to the surface, the HP air was routed through reducers that sent the air to the ballast tanks at 3,000 psi.
The Sturgeon class (I rode the Queenfish) sub-safe engineering included an emergency blow system that ported 4500 psi air directly from the storage banks directly into the MBTs. I'm sure all subsequent sub designs included that very design. As Chief of the Watch aboard the USS Ethan Allen, I got to stand up to reach the valves that ported air to the emergency blow system. Oh, what a ride.
@@billofjazzas another measure was to remove the 5 micron screens in EB system air. Tighter controls on moisture content.
I could list a hosts of changes to Level 1 Subsafe engineering.
Going to a class in New London, We watched a movie of the shock trials Thresher went through. Recent example was the test Ford just went through, as "first in class". Thresher got the same, submerged and they depth charged the crap out of it! Shaft seals squirting, hell!, the shaft looked like spaghetti! Learned why EB couplings were used!😂
Growing up in Annapolis, much of the time on the campus of the US Naval Academy, in the mid-late 60's I frequently saw submarines docked or moored at the now-David Taylor Naval Ship Research & Development Center at the mouth of the Severn River directly across from the Academy. I wanted so much to get near them. My grandfather took me out fishing on the Chesapeake on weekends. One of those days, the USS Scorpion was at anchor in the Severn. He circled for what seemed an hour...... I will never forget watching the submariners on deck, thinking of the enormous contrast in their two worlds. I will also never forget it was very shortly thereafter I learned of the terrible plight. My friends' father was a lead investigator on the USS Thresher forensics, but it'd be a very long time until anything about the USS Scorpion would become public.
Incredible pictures. I was 7 years old when the Scorpion was lost. I remember going to see I believe an aircraft carrier with an uncle who was a Korean war veteran. He was always encouraging me to think about the military. The navy was where I wanted to go. I was interested in flying. But I remember standing on a ship looking out at the ocean and the carrier. That day and a few before was all over news and radio about the search for the Scorpion. I remember standing there and looking out at the ocean and how massive it was and wondering how will they ever find them. It was a huge loss. Sad event.
I get that it’s a war grave, but it would be nice to see new images of this with new equipment
"Does any one know where the love of God goes When the waves turn the minutes to hours?" - Gordon Lightfoot
One of my favorite songs and quite apropos for this video. I can't imagine the heartbreak of the families back home when they heard the news.
Wow, thank you for getting, sharing and preserving these for us.
In the shipyard for a refit/overhaul on a diesel boat when the Thresher went down. Out first dive on leaving the yard was a little tense. Dreamed about this for years. Still do.
Both the Alvin and the Argus were used in the Titanic expedition as well as the ROV.
These images are very disturbing and fascinating as well. Ballard´s narration starts at 16:00.
RIP brave men.
To all the lost men and crews on eternal patrol- past, present, and future- thank you for your service and sacrifice so that others may live in peace. YOU are truly deserved of the Medal of Honor. May you rest in peace awaiting that joyous day "when the sea shall give up her dead."
Submariner's Prayer: "When the waves of death compassed me / the floods of ungodly men made me afraid; / the bonds of She'ol encircled me; / the snares of death took me by surprise; / in my distress I called upon the Lord, / and cried to my G-D: / and he heard my voice out of his temple, / and my cry entered into his ears. / Then the earth shook and trembled; /the foundations of heaven moved / and shook because of his anger /...the heavy mass of waters, and thick clouds of the skies /... And the channels of the sea appeared, / the foundations of the world were laid bare, / at the rebuking of the Lord, at the blast at the breath of his nostrils. / He sent from above, he took me; / he drew me out of many waters; / he delivered me from my strong enemy, and from those who hated me; for they were too strong for me. / They surprised me in the day of my calamity: / but the Lord was my stay / He brought me forth also into a large place: / he delivered me because he delighted in me./" - - 2 Samuel, 22nd chapter, 5th through the 20th verses
Fun fact: This expedition that first found these submarines (may or may not be the same one shown here. But it looks similar to me) was commissioned by the navy with the woods hole oceanographic institute, and a certain robert ballard. Because he finished his mission with these two submarines earlier than expected due to good weather, he had a few weeks to work on a personal project.
He used the time to find the long-missing titanic, with the same cameras and submarines used.
Hello all. I served on a Thresher class boat in the late 60's. I am always amazed how little there is available to see on either Thresher or Scorpion. And poor quality to boot. Maybe they are afraid an unbiased appraisal of the evidence. At any rate, thanks for all of your effort. Always interesting. Would enjoy seeing even more and with better clarity.
Allen Purkapile Agree with all. More pictures will NEVER be available because of the coverup generated on the Scorpion. She wasn't the only one to have a Soviet Torpedo fired at her. 1975 SSBN Will Rogers!! No One knows about that one except the people that were on board her!
Ray Kaighn Stop spreading rumors and other bullshit. SSBN Will Rogers would not survive any torpedo hit. She was successfully decommissioned in 93.
I also served on a Thresher /Permit class boat. Would like to know what really happened to Scorpion.
R.I.P. USS THRESHER & USS SCORPION CREW 😢😢🇺🇸🇺🇸🙏🙏
Thank you. I was on SSN 585 Skipjack, exact same sub as Scorpion but older. Strange feeling looking at a copy of your exact boat wrecked on the bottom
Just a horrid way to perish....I cannot even imagine this kind of terror...may these brave crews
Rest in Eternal Peace.
Thanks for the video. Unfortunately I have no idea what I’m looking at without narration
My father had Orders to the Scorpion when father took ill with cancer. He requested to stay on the west coast. The Navy granted his request. My grandfather passed away, but I grew up with my father being there for me. My dad had a friend or 2 on the Scorpion.
I've never FELT static in sound or an image more in my life. You could swear you can hear each grain in the image, screaming from the lives lost
Rest in peace
THANK YOU FOR YOUR GREAT SACRIFICE IN DEFENSE OF OUR GRATEFUL NATION BELOVED WARRIORS ... RIP
Lived in Navy Housing in 1962 where many of the Thresher Crew's family lived - very Sudden and Very Tragic , big shakeup at the Portsmouth NH Naval Shipyard where the Sub was built , Electric Ballast Pumps were replaced with compressed air cylinders , banana shaped 50 feet high.
Note the steep sides of the opening crater?!😳. What’s that about?
So the extreme forward section sea tight integrity was already compromised before the final dive? Whilst the rear was not and consequently suffered implosion that pushed out the prop shaft. Definitely supports the theory of the torpedo battery explosion leading possibly to the low order warhead cookoff.
Images of such past violence set in such a serene environment. Calm seas and fair winds gentlemen. ❤
I served in the USN Submarine Service from 1961 - 1968. The night before the shake down cruise of the USS Sam Rayburn a lower level engine room watch noticed that the lagging collar lock wire lead seal had been broken, and then made to look as though it was still sealed. He slid the lagging back and found that the main sea water piping, which has to stand test depth pressure had been cut by a grinder cutting wheel. It would have stood normal sea pressure and greater, but would have burst before the sub would have reached test depth! In short it had been sabotaged to fail during sea trails.
The Thresher sunk on its sea trails.
That telescoping is something else. RIP 693 & 589
Former President Jimmy Carter was a graduate of the US Naval Academy here in Annapolis, Maryland. He was also a nuclear engineer and a submariner! During the Three Mile Island Nuclear Crisis , President Carter went to Middletown , Pennsylvania not far from Harrisburg, PA to access the situation! GO NAVY! ⚓⛵🌅⛵⚓🇩🇪🇨🇭🇺🇲💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙
Wow. Excellent. Is or are there more of these videos of these wrecks? The narration really adds to understanding it. Thank You and RIP brave men.
I can't help but think of that "Confessions of a deep sea diver" creepypasta this is quite chilling
The prevailing theory on the loss of the Scorpion was a hot-run of a MK 37 torpedo. In that case the immediate action is to reverse course to attempt to cause a safety shutdown of the torpedo. Since the Scorpion was observed traveling in the opposite direction of their intended track the crew very likely had minutes before the overheated torpedo exploded. They likely had time to close all hatches so there was some time to sink to collapse depth for the rest of the crew.
There's a thing that I don't understand: if what really happened in this disaster was a hot-run of a MK 37 torpedo, wouldn't had been better to the commander of the Scorpion try to go to surface at full speed, to save at least some lives of the crew ?
LeoAndRas You could try to surface and have the torpedo guarantee to detonate inside your sub before you ever got close....
Or you could try to turn and reverse course enough to trigger the ACR safety interlocks and shut the torpedo down completely.
Your choice.
Cg23sailor You could also turn on your cloaking device and become invisible.
Red Woods Or you could stop being a moron.
Mike Kierum There was no 180 turn. Craven was wrong about that. The wreckage is found facing Norfolk on a calculated distance on her intended track homeward.
I also thought when I saw the USS Grunion's video. It's scary to imagine what happens to humans under the pressure of a submarine hatch opening from the inside.
When I think about the lock ring inside those hatches, I just can't believe it.
God bless them all.
Thresher (SSN-593)
"That analysis also determined the Thresher non-vital electrical bus, after two minutes of line-frequency instability, failed for unknown reasons at 0911R while the nuclear reactor coolant pumps (RCPs) were in FAST. (Note: the SSTGs were not acoustically detected; the instability of the non-vital bus was derived from measured instability in the RCP rotational-rates. The non-vital bus line frequency was determined by correcting for the 2.5 percent slip of the RCP drive motors. Also note that the signal strength of the RCP sources at 0911R, at a detection range of about 30 nm, indicated that had the RCPs been shifted to SLOW at 0911R, they should still have been acoustically detected - but no such detection occurred.) The electrical load thrown on the vital bus at 0911R by the failure of the non-vital bus with the RCPs in FAST exceeded the capabilities of the vital bus; the RCPs (initially detected at 0845R in FAST as Thresher, according to the deep-dive OP-PLAN, was approaching a depth of 1000 feet) went off-line and the reactor scrammed at 0911R.
"[...]
"There was not in 1963 - nor is there now - any evidence in the specific case of the loss of Thresher to support the COI conclusion that on 10 April there was a rupture of a silver-brazed, sea-connected pipe that caused a reactor scram. The occurrence of silver-brazing problems earlier with Thresher, and with other submarine hulls, is NOT conclusive evidence that it occurred during the 10 April deep-dive, especially since Thresher's 0913R transmission to Skylark makes no mention of flooding and because the results of analysis of the SOSUS acoustic data are consistent with failure of the non-vital electrical bus which resulted in a reactor scram at test-depth because the RCPs were operating in FAST. Unable to deballast because of a subsequently confirmed ice-formation condition in the high-pressure air lines, Thresher sank to collapse at extreme depth without any prior flooding. Both the pressure hull and all sea-connected systems survived well beyond design specifications. As discussed in The Death of the Thresher by Norman Polmar, Thresher had made some 40 dives to test depth prior to April 1963.
"To repeat, there was not - as maintained on page 122 of the WI12TSR - any (quote) failure of a silver-brazed fitting in the engine room, with immediate flooding, and subsequent emergency shutdown of the nuclear reactor (scram due to spray on the engine room affecting electrical control panels) (end quote); hence, it is wrongly asserted, also on page 122, that Portsmouth Naval Shipyard personnel were responsible for the loss of the Thresher because of the failure of a silver-brazed fitting.
"The acoustic bubble-pulse data indicate the Thresher pressure hull and all internal compartments were completely destroyed in less than one-tenth of a second (100 milliseconds), significantly less than the minimum time required for human perception of any event: 50 milliseconds for retina integration plus 100 milliseconds for cognitive integration.
"[...]
"Although this analysis advances an understanding of why the Thresher was lost by establishing there is no evidence of the failure a silver-brazed fitting during the 10 April deep-dive, the analysis still leaves the perhaps unanswerable question of why the non-vital bus failed after two minutes of line frequency instability.
"The Thresher was lost nearly half a century ago because her nuclear reactor shut down at test depth of 1300 feet and the crew could neither blow ballast nor restart the reactor in the seven minutes during which Thresher sank to collapse at a depth of about 2400 feet.
"Dave Johnston also added: Thresher's inability to blow the ballast tanks had nothing to do with the reactor shutdown. It was a separate problem that unfortunately reared it's head at the wrong time. The blow system had plenty of capacity and it can be manually operated. That was not the problem. When the high pressure air that was used to blow the tanks left the storage banks, it passes through the control valves that keep it in the banks under pressure. Anytime a compressed gas expands, it cools rapidly. As the very cold air passed through the valves, frost began to form due to the presence of moisture in the air. It very quickly built up (a matter of a few seconds) and froze solid in the valves. The solid ice stopped the air just as effectively as shutting the valves, thus the Thresher was unable to blow her tanks...." - www.navsource.org/archives/08/08593.htm
I was a bubblehead from April '81 - June '87, though a boomer sailor. While watching a new age music video on RUclips by a Russian artist - whose stage name is Stive (and not "Steve") Morgan - named "K 141 Kursk", I happened to spot an American sub on the surface (3:35) and then, after 3:51, the video revealed the hull number, 593. Not recognizing the hull number, I looked it up, thus starting my research into the USS Thresher (and the USS Scorpion - they are often discussed together, to some extent). Above is some of what I learned.
Woah bro slow down haha. Thats that's taking our understanding of the sub and comming up with the best potential scenerio. From personal experience anything could have happened. Take for example common A-ganger maitnence we were doing while underway we found a cap screwed into a line of piping. This wasnt a subsafe pipe per diagram and once the cap was removed (by a second class literally laughing asking what it went to as he removed it) water began to bellow in until someone stuck their finger in it and was cussing up a storm as to how much it hurt. (Lo and behold it was subject to direct sea pressure). Later investigation by the crew we realized it not only should have been labeled SUBSAFE it wasnt in any piping diagram at all. It should have been labeled subsafe and was manufactured and documented incorrectly. You really cant know why it happened. Especially a sub prior to the SUBSAFE program and prior to modern naval maitenance procedures and regulations. That's the hardest point I try to make with people (especially when they spit out technical data from a whim) with having this conversation because they dont relize unless you've been there and served on them how really easy it is to sink from crew error one of those black bitches. even when we manufacture them and try to get it 100% accurate our SUBSAFE program mistakes are made.
Dont just tak my word for it. Take a tour of a 688 and when your in the torpedo room ask them where you can stick the screwdriver to stop the interlock from opening both tube hatches.
I think the Navy and Government puts these videos out here to see who will respond with information they either know or Think they know to see who they need to keep an eye on. There are many of us who are sworn to secrecy Forever because of our security clearances and who cannot and Will not divulge what we know because of that. Everything is not always as it seems or gets reported. I have a Great Respect and Admiration for the men who died on these submarines. And all I can say is that they died in defense of their Country and that they made the world a Better place for all that they have done.
9:33 hatch is blown open. How many atmospheres of pressure would be required for this to occur? How would the hatch crank get bent to the position it's in other than being hit by a solid object in flight causing it to rupture? Would such a condition possibly indicate fragmentation from detonation rather than externally induced overpressure? How did the propeller shaft manage to completely disengage from the bearing bracket? How could a seismic event create a pressure differential so local or so focused as to cause such damage?
Hi Paul: Currently working on this. Here goes....
Answers: 1) Post hull deformation an oblate hatch fails quickly,
@@Uncle_Neil , what is a hydraulic pulse?
@@colinmontgomery1956 It is the pressure pulse caused by the sudden inrush of high-pressure water when a deeply submerged submarine hull is breached either due to hull overstress by excessive depth, or the by detonation of an explosive device. As the pressure inside the vessel is 1 atmosphere, and the pressure at (for example) 1000 feet is just over 30 atmospheres, hull failure resulting in substantial water inrush would immediately crush any normal object that has internal voids -- like a man for example.
@@RichardBonomo , hello, and thank you for your answer. The hull failure would cause the death, or the sudden in rush of water?
@@colinmontgomery1956 The sudden inrush of water (a consequence of hull failure), as it would suddenly multiply the pressure in the hull by a factor of 30. Objects that have internal cavities (like human beings) that were at 1 atmosphere would be crushed extremely quickly.
Noticed some issues that scare the hell out of me, I rode boats as a Spook for over a decade, things make me wonder like the hatch was open and it looked like the dogs were open?
the bow at 27:40 contains what ive heard 2 nuclear tipped 11kt MK45 ASTOR torpedo
Yes and that's why they have inspections
@@davidm3maniac201 the inspections are also for the reactors since they have been down there for over 40 years now
Ah yes, MK45 torpedoes. Also known as suicide torpedoes since you have only a 50% chance of surviving firing one.
@@oldnumber5866 because you're in so close when they detonate
Without captions or audio I don’t know what we’re looking at or what operation they’re doing, When Thresher was lost I was devistated…✝️💕
It would be worth comparing these forensic images with dynamic models of the various theories of USS Scorpion's loss documented in a handful of books and documentaries.. The non-crushed bow and torpedo room, the separated sail with positions of masts and antennas are somewhat telling. How do you lose the outer 2 bow hatches and messenger buoy off the ship while leaving the lower bow escape hatch in place? The pressure had to come from above the lower hatch with little bow damage. How to highly pressurize the bow escape trunk from the inside enough to blow off the 2 hatches without hurting the bow??? IMHO the shaft and screw came out as the engine room crushed into Ops - not much holding it in at that point. Model the various explosions/implosions. Has this all been done? Which scenarios can be ruled out and which ones remain? I think many submariners remain curious to see an analysis of these math problems that leave little doubt. I will assume these guys were and are still and forever heroes doing their duty and not submariners who made some error until proven otherwise. Sorry not buying earthquake...there is a real cause.
This is really amazing that u have this, thanks for posting!
Not to sound insensitive, but I'm amazed how well preserved both the footage and the wrecks are. I wonder if this was one of Bob Ballards dives.
No its navy rov, they go every couple of years to inspect and test for nuclear contamination
The second part of the video with the Alvin sounds more like a Ballard commercial trying to sell his Jason ROV than the survey they were sent to conduct. A tip to Bob, Submarines do not have nose cones, they have Sonar Domes. BTW For those who are seeking to find the cause, it was never determined exactly. What was found was the Torpedo Room was undamaged, which would Not indicate a hot run or battery fire torpedo explosion.
The secondary Navy investigation - using extensive photographic, video, and eyewitness inspections of the wreckage in 1969 - suggested that Scorpion's hull was crushed by implosion forces as it sank below crush depth. The Structural Analysis Group, which included Naval Ship Systems Command's Submarine Structures director Peter Palermo, plainly saw that the torpedo room was intact, though it had been pinched by excessive sea pressure. The operations compartment collapsed at frame 33, this being the king frame of the hull, reaching its structural limit first. The conical/cylindrical transition piece at frame 67 followed instantly. The boat was broken in two by massive hydrostatic pressure at an estimated depth of 470 m (1,530 ft). The operations compartment was largely obliterated by sea pressure, and the engine room had telescoped 15 m (50 ft) forward into the hull due to collapse pressure, when the cone-to-cylinder transition junction failed between the auxiliary machine space and the engine room.
The only damage to the torpedo room compartment appeared to be a hatch missing from the forward escape trunk. Palermo pointed out that this would have occurred when water pressure entered the torpedo room at the moment of implosion.
The Thresher story is the first news story I remember as a kid that really affected me. I was ten at the time. That and the Cuban Missile Crisis. I lived not far from a Nike Hercules missile base and all their missiles were on the pads ready to go.
I was also 10 and affected like you. I've kept the headline story from the Milw. Journal and a Readers Digest featuring the story all these years, it truly was a tragedy.
A friend's father was a civilian engineer on the Thresher. I lived in New London, CT, at the time 7th grade. Commander Harvey lived in Waterford. We were all shaken by this. In gym class, we had a moment of silence that day, not knowing what had happened.
It’s my humble opinion that the Soviets baited and sank scorpion. I never believed the hot run theory.
I was a torpedo-mans mate second class on USS Dace SSN 607
1978-1982
My brother was on the scorpion and I agree with you 100 💯 percent. Especially from the last 2 letters my mother received from him.
I served on the George Washington in the late 60s early 70s. Our boat began as the Scorpion but was changed to Washington and became the first boomer. I saw equipment that was scribed as Scorpion in pump rm 1,
This seems incorrect; do you have more information? The Scorpion was a Skipjack class, the George Washington was the lead boat for its class and was a boomer. These boats are massively different in size, design, and purpose.
I was aboard the USS Queenfish (SSN 651) on our way to Westpack in 68 when the Scorpion sank and some of the guys were mentioning the Scorpion-GW connection. (my last sub of 5 was the USS Ethan Allen)
Rest easy Men you are not forgotten
This is disturbingly scary to watch
Can someone tell me what masts/antennae/periscopes were raised on the Scorpion at 21:15? It looks like the EMS mast and perhaps a periscope were, or maybe a radio antenna?
I simply cannot imagine the horror of being trapped in a sub that is sinking to crush depth and beyond.
It begs the question - why could they not have chosen an area where the ocean was less deep?
Very good question, have asked myself the same question many times.
It's not like you get to choose when something bad happens.
@@jimclark6256 There are many tests in final sea trials. One of the most critical is to understand the acoustic signature patterns of your screw while underway at max operating depths. Had to be done.
Critical that any Navy has a complete acoustic signature map of its vessels (primary reason for Sealark presence at the time).
well done joe - i am fascinated by this stuff. what i would like to see is the wreck of the k219 off Bermuda. when the soviet
navy dove on the wreck, they found all the icbm's missing.....?
Thanks. Ive read several of the books that theorized as to why this boat went down. Submariners are a different breed that I have the utmost respect for. Im an engineer by trade and the forces these boats go through amazes me. I have a buddy who works on subs at a shipyard. Hes done a sea trial. He said during one, they accidently tiled over an expansion joint; part of the floor that moves from the stresses. He said the tiles exploded like a shotgun going off. I would have crapped my pants as I started calling for an emergency breach.
+john parris Yeah, it's really hard to find any information on this. I'm guessing the US Navy recovered all of its warheads, but it's mysterious that there seems to be so little information on it. They just said, when the Soviet Navy showed up, the missile tube doors were pried open, and all of the warheads were missing.
I can sort of see why the US Navy might want to contain the situation, but what's with all the secrecy? What did they do with them? Why not come out and say; "Yeah, we got them, and we destroyed them. Sorry USSR, but that shit was dangerous having so many nukes there for anyone to snatch up."?
+Joe Blow I don't think they recovered them. Remember, this is at the bottom of the Atlantic, well out of the reach of any technical dive. The only way for you to get those torpedoes would be to bring the entire bow section up. Any country that have the resources and technology to do that, (generally) are already nuclear powers.
@@joeguerra6044 The open silos are in the midship section of the k219. It`s sailors were rescued by the USNavy and maybe Coast Guard. There came a book "In Hostile Waters" which is pretty good info source. My GUESS is that the SLBM-s were taken by the Royal Navy - Not the US Navy.
As a Veteran British nuke submariner it’s so sad to see this and how so many time we take are live in our hands to do this work and protect our country and we can never speak about what we did. If your a submariner you know what I’m saying RIP brothers of the fins
Note the hatches are missing because they had to go back and retrieve a few things. This is not first find footage. Note the angle of the blades in that era. Note that implosion did not cause any large hatches to fail.
We lost a family friend in this iron tomb. When it originally was reported in this area they said the "cause" was the Bermuda Triangle!
the propeller seen at 23:39 is another way they made nuclear fast attack and boomers quieter was how they designed it to reduce cavitation, so even a maximum speed the subs shaft and prop wouldn't make a sound
@Ob Bop But not as much. Or the USN never would have spent the money on them.
This is fascinating in light of the document declassification about 3 days ago that showed that the Thresher did not in fact implode as has been told for nearly 60 years now. We now know that some of the crew of the Thresher were alive and communicating with searchers for at least 24 hours after she went down.
Those men were all dead well before the sub hit the bottom. I was on a 637 class for 4 years. Your statement is in correct.
@@RichardHowie I believe this is the SECOND time you are responding to my statement, to which I say again...you need to read the documents that were declassified just this last week. Or, watch the following video... ruclips.net/video/HV5FGTxIU4Q/видео.html
If Thresher did not implode for 24 hours, it would have been picked up on active sonar. The claim of survivors has been debunked and the pings were from other ships in the vicinity .
I know it’s hard for some to accept but there is no cover up or conspiracy
Debunked.
Oh? She sank in about 8,400 feet of water. Crush depth for that class was closer to test depth which was somewhere around 1400'.
Qualified on USS Sargo !SSN 583)
RIP Shipmates.
Well said fellow bubble head.
Interesting that in 1988 this was the absolute state of the art Navy cameras and today's $600 go pro blows it out of the water... Also this was highly classified in 1988, so much so that Robert Ballard used the Titanic wreck as a cover story for why they were in that area of the Atlantic..
THERE IS AN UNDERWATER LISTENING ARAY OWNED BY THE NAVY BY THE TITANIC. MY FRIEND MONITORED THEM FOR YEARS. THE NAVY KNEW WERE THE WRECK WAS BECAUSE OF THE LISTENING ARAY. THE NAVY WAS SHUTTING DOWN THE ARAY AS THE RUSSIANS HAD FOUND IT AND GIVEN BALARD THE LOCATION AS A LITTLE BONUS FOR HIS WORK
This is '85, not '88.
And Go Pros can't go down 12,000 feet.
@@jasonharper2601 You know that there's a story that they found the Titanic in 1975?
They used maps produced by sonar imaging which WAS MUCH BETTER QUALITY than they've ever confirmed to locate the wreck.
@@AvengerII It's called a Tow Fish, and it uses Side Scan Sonar to echo-locate bottom features.
This is amazing. Thank you for sharing
One section of the video shows some of the CONTROL ROD DRIVES, so that would mean that the reactor itself is on the ocean floor?
Looks like most if not all of the footage is of Scorpion but there is a piece of debris at 13:50 that looks similar to the photograph of Thresher wreckage that appeared in a National Geographic about 50 years ago.
***** Hello. I noticed that as well. I think you are correct.
The thresher. We talked about it a lot while I was underway. What I did not know was that it had Torpedo's with a Nuclear Armament. However, it seems for some reason the boat was was lost due to the Air being frozen in the lines and therefore, it could not come back and float up. But that still does not make sense.
Unless they damaged the screw? It should have had an APU? But that thing is only good for maybe 5 knots on a good day. And if they lost propulsion? It would get past test depth in a hurry. It takes a bit of time to deploy these things. By the time the crew knew what was going on? All hell would be breaking loose.
The other issue could have been the Electric drive unit. It was still pretty new at the time and from what I understand, it was one of the first built in the 60's.
Later on they made upgrades to the screw and other things.
The whole thing just seems odd. Ice in the Air lines during an Emergency Ballast tank drill? It just seems odd. But if they did that maneuver, the reduced surface area of the dive planes could make it so that they could not recover. That's my guess.
Its crazy that even after all these years? There is still little official info about what was the exact cause.
@9:23 How / is the hatch open? The sail is ripped off so hard for me to figure which hatch it is. Has to be either torpedo room or aft where all the shore power connections go.
Sail hatch was a little different if I can trust my memory
Did the scorpion and the thresher succeed the crush dep?
It appears to me that despite what other failures had happened that the failure in the propeller shaft probably sealed there fate meaning it wasn't designed to have so much pressure pulling in reverse.
Are they also looking for environmental factors like radiation, nuclear stuff leaking as well as checking the wreck for changes. Also, what's the cage of fish for?
That is exactly what is happening. The first segment is the survey done by US Navy Deep Submergence Unit in 97, I was on this mission. We took water, soil, and marine life samples to see if any radiation was leaking and contaminating the surrounding area. The second segment is Dr. Bob Ballard's survey from the 80s.
@@TK-593 wow, that’s very impressive, did u stay top side or did u go down to the sun, what was it like seing for the first time? Have they looked into the environmental factors since the 90’s? I wish I could ask all the questions I got but thankyou for your answer. Stay safe out there x
@@1corrsfan We were topside on the control ship. The work is done by a tethered remote control vehicle. There are some manned submersibles that can go that deep but they can not stay down that long and would require multiple dives and surfaces to complete the surveys.
so how many years will it take for the plutonium to rust away? I am assuimg they are in thick metal so it may take many years like the Titanic Anchor chains still look reletively new because they are very thick
She reported days earlier that she was being shadowed by 2 Soviet submarines. She was destroyed in supposed retaliation for the sinking of K-129 , which unfortunately met her demise by mechanical issues. It was partially recovered by the CIA (Project Azorian). The Soviet Fleet Commander gave a speech later about "tragic mistakes" and "incorrect intelligence" that led to unfortunate decisions(Scorpion). Its a damn shame that we had to lose a great ship and crew because of this. But, if they would have admitted this back then, WW3 certainly would have begun...The US Navy knew also what really happened, but left her sinking as "unknown". Again, preventing a certain war...
Did they detonate the sub on the sea floor ( t-shaped plunger things) to stop recovery by third party?
I am working on AI up-scaling this video. Hopefully I can make it a bit better looking. I'll link back to this video whenever I publish it.
So first they do test sea trials in unrecoverable depths. Then, according to recently declassified documents, there were survivors for at least 24 hours before it sank lower and imploded.
The report from the USS Seawolf you're referencing doesn't contain anything that could be attributed to the 593 boat. The only thing that report proves is that when the surface units were told to cease using their sonar and fathometers, the Seawolf never heard anything else. Thresher imploded at 0918 on 10Apr. Seawolf didn't arrive until 11Apr.
No there weren’t, the implosion was heard by sosus and by the Skylark a few minutes after loosing communications. Seawolf didn’t hear the Thresher, those poor souls had gone way before the seawolf arrived.
ruclips.net/video/HV5FGTxIU4Q/видео.html
37 pings… tragic
The documents do not suggest survivors.
This has been debunked by experts.
Rest in Peace all of you that gave the ultimate sacrifice! God bless all of you 🙏🏻
Galen Manapat: Question: 1- Since the Radar antenna is rotating and you cannot have a hard cable attached to the antenna(it would twist) how is the reflected echo taken from the antenna and routed to your scope screen 2-Some movies show the scope color as blue others as green, which is accurate and which is easiest on the eyes 3-If your working CIC, in an area considered hostile and the presumed threat is high-and you make radar contact (ship or aircraft) what is the communications procedure? In other words who do you alert as to the threat, the Capt or who and how is that warning transmitted-by intercom or phones of some type? Thanks for your detailed post concerning USS Scorpion.
waveguides
Slip rings for maintaining electrical contact to both sides - the rotating part and the fixed mount. Search Google on slip rings.
Ok sailors, correct me if I'm wrong...The USS Scorpion bumped into K19 in 1968? The USS Thresher was lost in april 1963 during deep water trials?
Scorpion did not bump into K19. Scorpion was sent while on her way home to investigate a small group of Soviet ships operating in the area.
K19 collided with USS Gato SSN615 in the Barents Sea in 1969. There is no hard evidence that the Soviets sank the scorpion
@@lard_lad_AU There are Soviet admissions, notably the helo pilot who claims to have dropped a torpedo on Scorpion and at least one of their admirals. The Soviet story was that she was attacked in response to the loss of K-129, even though it was later learned that K-129 was not lost due to any US involvement.
@@jonnycomfort9271 none of those are credible sources. A couple of old grazers telling stories to researchers who want to push a book does not add up. There would have been hundreds of witnesses. And governments are hopeless at keeping secrets. The Soviet involvement is dubious at best.
@@lard_lad_AU The Soviet story, told by multiple unrelated people (including the helo pilot) is that the Ka-25 took off from one of the ships armed with the torpedo....and landed on the other ship so that even the ground crew would not notice the missing torpedo. This same account came from multiple independent sources on the Soviet side that had zero interest in "pushing a book". What you don't account for, also, is that the author was already in the process of writing his book when he encountered the Soviet accounts. So this was not some afterthought to "push a book"....he was in the process of writing it when he learned this info. He didn't just make it up to push a book that he was going to be pushing no matter what those Soviet veterans said to him.
That means you wouldn't have "hundreds of witnesses". The Ka-25 has a crew of 4. The chain of command in the old Soviet structure means that only the immediate commander(s) would have the need to know for most things. This severely limits that number further. From the admiral, to the ship's commander, to the political officer, to the helo crew. That's it. Your position requires a whole lot of fabrication and far reaching assumptions. My theory does not.
Could do with a commentry - Skynea, It`s History?
its hard to understand what exactly they doing. are they taking water samples? what happen to skeletonized remains? are they destroyed by sea water or no.
Why the have not gone out with the newer underwater camera systems is beyond me, especially sonce they are STILL not sure what sank Scorpion!! I do know they go and check both wrecks periodically for radiation leakage so get some decent cameras down there!!
Because they know what sank scorpion, whether it was a defective torpedo battery or soviet attack either way too many people in high places would be hurt if they released that information.
While I find subs, especially modern subs to be very safe and in some cases safer than conventional ships this must be a terrible way to go if you do not die instantly.
Zoes Dada There isn’t really a way to “not die instantly” down at such depths. When the submarine hits its crush level, the pressure from the ocean around it is such that it literally crushes the steel, and everything in said steel. Death is violent, but instant. The horrifying part, is being trapped knowing you are going to be crushed to death if the submarine sinks much lower. However, the pressure is so intense, death lasts a split second. Too fast for the nervous system to comprehend, to my understanding.
The air temperature rises like an explosion due to the pressure change and the speed of it rushing out the sub chokes you immediately. You die before the water even touches you
Rip, brave souls!
Rest in Peace.