A good counter to Sheldon Balls is the advanced crawling bombs, people often forget that they can cloak so can get in very close easier in the early T2 era before countermeasure systems are up, and if they bump into units breaking their cloak, if they get destroyed they still explode quite nicely in close range to enemies.
Sheldon need to be nerfed. Either squishier or slower. Maybe their shells should be quite explosive so they damage the other guys in the ball. Spy boys are good, but they are good against everything and super e expensive. Too op at the moment.
It is really strange that Sheldon outrange Quaker and especially Banishers. I get they need higher range because otherwise Hounds would be outright better but I wouldn't mind the veh arty being more expensive to get the same range
Fun fact: Almost every unit in the game that is faster than sheldon stomps on sheldons in equal metal by moving strait towards them. Even hounds. I tested that myself multiple times with sheldon kiting backwards, starting from far away and full LOS vision. Best counters are Jaguars maybe? Pawn and Blitz also win by a landslide, but a Fiend shield counters those too easily, unlike Jags.
Hounds. Not in my experience they get theire asses handed to them. maybe if you dont run backwards. you can also paire them with sumos witch can deal with anything that comes close.
@@SSR2902 probably because they're mobile enough that it's hard to catch them if they have the space to kite and cause they're bots terrain is rarely a problem
If you are struggling against sheldon balls try rushing out 1-3 long range missile units and microing their shots into their sheldons. 1-2 big hits can devastate clumped sheldons. t2 Missile trucks are very underrated, I win alot of games just microing a few of them to pick off value targets.
I'd say the Banisher is a good counter to the Sheldon. It's durable, it's got high alpha damage, and it has good splash, so extra good against a sheldon ball.
Sheldon are deceptively expensive for their tiny frame. They ball may look compact, but 10 sheldons and support units is 5k metal. Hard to counter that without a significant expenditure.
If you're getting kited by a swarm of skirmisher type units in an RTS like this then you can either rush them with fast units or get something with even longer range. With Cortex vehicles vs Sheldons, that's Tigers or Salamanders for fast units, but to beat them at long range I think you really need to go big - the Tremor is seen as a meme unit but it's legitimately the best counter to this, other 1k+ range units are too inaccurate to hit moving Sheldons, but the Tremor doesn't need accuracy, it just carpets the whole area. Also Bulwarks are the Cortex equivalent to Pulsars and they're probably better-suited to fighting Sheldons, and I think a line of Banishers or Tsars could work defensively - if you protect them with a deflector. Another seldom-used long-range option is the tactical missile. I feel like a lot of the late T2 units are skipped in favor of rushing to T3, but that's where a lot of the counters for the early T2 units are.
While I don't disagree, a shield generator vs Sheldon's seems very overkill. That's a huge energy drain and cost, for a static D that the skirmishers can just go around.
@@TheDeathlyG true, but there are some maps where just going around some chokepoint isn't really a practical option, I think it's a potentially useful thing to keep in your bag of tricks.
Banisher is actually great against shelldons. If you can buffer them with some tiger tanks, or sneak in with a jammer, you can often blow up a massive chunk of them. Janus vs rocket bots, but in t2. Also the long range stealth missile trucks out range them, if they stop microing for a few seconds it's easy to take down quite a few. Both methods also scale well if you're behind or ahead.
22:05 Either siege units or raider units. So units that greatly out-range Sheldon(Which is a skirmisher unit) or that are so fast and cheap you can just bum-rush them.
Agreed. The only tricky part is that Sheldon tend to have a "tax" that you have to pay to keep them busy long enough to put together the counters to them, in enough metal as to actually contest them. What I mean is that most units when in equal metal to the Sheldon Ball can run them down and kill them, so Sheldon players constantly harass and pick off units here and there as they grow their own ball. If the Sheldon player is putting say, 50m/sec into his ball, you have to put 60-75m/sec to cover the units/defenses you are losing, plus building the counter. Also with skirmisher units you have to commit to the fight on them. I notice a lot of lower level players will go back and forth on whether to engage, which is precisely what the skirmisher archetypes like Sheldon want to have happen as it maximizes their strengths. Bulls and fighting units hold territory, Sheldon's merely borrow it.
Defensively, you beat sheldons with a mix of hounds and fatboys (fatboys have good damage and further range then sheldons, and hounds give flexibility if the sheldons want to move around the fatboys, because they can blast them apart like nothing if the sheldons are distracted and get too close) Against a sheldon ball, half that metal in 2 to 1 hounds and fatboys does it. The only issue is if the sheldons get around or are able to split the hounds and the fatboys up too much. Offensively, mass fiends and spread out pawn or blitzes meelee rush surrounds also do it.
Huge lack of coordination and commiting to finish a base when the opportunity is there. Ik easy to say with full vision and watching a replay. People should really keep a T1 lab around to send ticks etc scouting runs at all points in the game to figure out whats left between them and bases. A lot of time the answer is 'nothing'. For the price of 3-5 scout units which is pretty much irrelevant by mid game, you can get insane value in info. T1 radar is also like 60 metal.
When did they change the range of the mouser and quaker. You can still see the old range of them in the beyound all reason site. Is this their whey of making cortex better in team games.
I really didn't do well lol. It seems to be a theme in every replay I'm part of lol. I shouldn't have been building medium tanks. And I never responded fast enough to any of their runbys. Nearly cost us the game multiple times.
Cor vehicles can just about counter a sheldonball with a ball of quakers, but you'd definitely need other stuff mixed in to defend against faster units
im not sure anymore since they nerfed the range of the quakers and if you just chase the sheldons until you hit them youre sure to loose your quakers because they cant retreat quaker and mauser used to be a reliable counter before they nerfed the range.
@@OhBoy235 Whilst quakers have slightly less range, they cost less metal, they're faster, tankier and have huge aoe. If you can support them with other trash in front, it's not as bad a matchup as the range alone suggests. But yeah I can't deny sheldons are still oppressive.
If sheldons get nerfed it will be so funny. They literally nerf something, and the thing they nerf makes a unit which used to be countered by the nerfed unit to become op.😂 It's so dumb.
A good counter to Sheldon Balls is the advanced crawling bombs, people often forget that they can cloak so can get in very close easier in the early T2 era before countermeasure systems are up, and if they bump into units breaking their cloak, if they get destroyed they still explode quite nicely in close range to enemies.
yeah, even being pretty expensive there very underrated. They're also amphibious
Huh, I didn't know they were cloakable. TIL!
@@MatthewSwaine you're still kinda screwed if you're core vehicles though
Sheldon need to be nerfed. Either squishier or slower. Maybe their shells should be quite explosive so they damage the other guys in the ball. Spy boys are good, but they are good against everything and super e expensive. Too op at the moment.
@@joeschroedernz they're already squishy so probably a speed nerf
yup, ithink you mightve mixed up titles.. or just wrote 8v8 instead of 3v3
Gets him every time.
It is really strange that Sheldon outrange Quaker and especially Banishers. I get they need higher range because otherwise Hounds would be outright better but I wouldn't mind the veh arty being more expensive to get the same range
I see. I wouldn't have though the smaller and lighter artillery cannon of the Sheldon would outrage the heavier vehicle artillery weapons.
Spy bots and mass tick. But lite blue is too new to know these things I think.
Yooo, got in thinking it was 8v8 got a 3v3 treat
Side note, Shalashaska is Revolver Ocelot's nickname
Fun fact: Almost every unit in the game that is faster than sheldon stomps on sheldons in equal metal by moving strait towards them. Even hounds. I tested that myself multiple times with sheldon kiting backwards, starting from far away and full LOS vision.
Best counters are Jaguars maybe? Pawn and Blitz also win by a landslide, but a Fiend shield counters those too easily, unlike Jags.
Hounds. Not in my experience they get theire asses handed to them. maybe if you dont run backwards. you can also paire them with sumos witch can deal with anything that comes close.
@@SSR2902 probably because they're mobile enough that it's hard to catch them if they have the space to kite and cause they're bots terrain is rarely a problem
If you are struggling against sheldon balls try rushing out 1-3 long range missile units and microing their shots into their sheldons. 1-2 big hits can devastate clumped sheldons. t2 Missile trucks are very underrated, I win alot of games just microing a few of them to pick off value targets.
sheldon ball < spy bot amazing when connected :D
I'd say the Banisher is a good counter to the Sheldon. It's durable, it's got high alpha damage, and it has good splash, so extra good against a sheldon ball.
Sheldon are deceptively expensive for their tiny frame. They ball may look compact, but 10 sheldons and support units is 5k metal. Hard to counter that without a significant expenditure.
If you're getting kited by a swarm of skirmisher type units in an RTS like this then you can either rush them with fast units or get something with even longer range. With Cortex vehicles vs Sheldons, that's Tigers or Salamanders for fast units, but to beat them at long range I think you really need to go big - the Tremor is seen as a meme unit but it's legitimately the best counter to this, other 1k+ range units are too inaccurate to hit moving Sheldons, but the Tremor doesn't need accuracy, it just carpets the whole area. Also Bulwarks are the Cortex equivalent to Pulsars and they're probably better-suited to fighting Sheldons, and I think a line of Banishers or Tsars could work defensively - if you protect them with a deflector. Another seldom-used long-range option is the tactical missile. I feel like a lot of the late T2 units are skipped in favor of rushing to T3, but that's where a lot of the counters for the early T2 units are.
While I don't disagree, a shield generator vs Sheldon's seems very overkill. That's a huge energy drain and cost, for a static D that the skirmishers can just go around.
@@TheDeathlyG true, but there are some maps where just going around some chokepoint isn't really a practical option, I think it's a potentially useful thing to keep in your bag of tricks.
Banisher is actually great against shelldons. If you can buffer them with some tiger tanks, or sneak in with a jammer, you can often blow up a massive chunk of them. Janus vs rocket bots, but in t2. Also the long range stealth missile trucks out range them, if they stop microing for a few seconds it's easy to take down quite a few. Both methods also scale well if you're behind or ahead.
22:05 Either siege units or raider units.
So units that greatly out-range Sheldon(Which is a skirmisher unit) or that are so fast and cheap you can just bum-rush them.
Agreed. The only tricky part is that Sheldon tend to have a "tax" that you have to pay to keep them busy long enough to put together the counters to them, in enough metal as to actually contest them. What I mean is that most units when in equal metal to the Sheldon Ball can run them down and kill them, so Sheldon players constantly harass and pick off units here and there as they grow their own ball. If the Sheldon player is putting say, 50m/sec into his ball, you have to put 60-75m/sec to cover the units/defenses you are losing, plus building the counter.
Also with skirmisher units you have to commit to the fight on them. I notice a lot of lower level players will go back and forth on whether to engage, which is precisely what the skirmisher archetypes like Sheldon want to have happen as it maximizes their strengths.
Bulls and fighting units hold territory, Sheldon's merely borrow it.
@@TheDeathlyG Just build a couple t2 long range missile units and micro their shots into the sheldon ball.
More Brightworks :D
Defensively, you beat sheldons with a mix of hounds and fatboys (fatboys have good damage and further range then sheldons, and hounds give flexibility if the sheldons want to move around the fatboys, because they can blast them apart like nothing if the sheldons are distracted and get too close)
Against a sheldon ball, half that metal in 2 to 1 hounds and fatboys does it. The only issue is if the sheldons get around or are able to split the hounds and the fatboys up too much.
Offensively, mass fiends and spread out pawn or blitzes meelee rush surrounds also do it.
Are the Sheldons in the room with us right now?
Their is no reason for Sheldon to have more range than t2 vehicle artillery. Big imbalance
Huge lack of coordination and commiting to finish a base when the opportunity is there. Ik easy to say with full vision and watching a replay.
People should really keep a T1 lab around to send ticks etc scouting runs at all points in the game to figure out whats left between them and bases. A lot of time the answer is 'nothing'. For the price of 3-5 scout units which is pretty much irrelevant by mid game, you can get insane value in info. T1 radar is also like 60 metal.
When did they change the range of the mouser and quaker. You can still see the old range of them in the beyound all reason site. Is this their whey of making cortex better in team games.
22:00 do u know my favorite unit which counters the Sheldons? Catapults😂
As a front liner tho it's a little tricky to get t3 that fast
2 banishers destroy Sheldon's in a hit
I really didn't do well lol. It seems to be a theme in every replay I'm part of lol. I shouldn't have been building medium tanks. And I never responded fast enough to any of their runbys. Nearly cost us the game multiple times.
Cor vehicles can just about counter a sheldonball with a ball of quakers, but you'd definitely need other stuff mixed in to defend against faster units
im not sure anymore since they nerfed the range of the quakers and if you just chase the sheldons until you hit them youre sure to loose your quakers because they cant retreat
quaker and mauser used to be a reliable counter before they nerfed the range.
T2 Missile Truck is better counter.
@@OhBoy235 Whilst quakers have slightly less range, they cost less metal, they're faster, tankier and have huge aoe. If you can support them with other trash in front, it's not as bad a matchup as the range alone suggests. But yeah I can't deny sheldons are still oppressive.
That was a 2v3😂
Wrong title :D
If sheldons get nerfed it will be so funny. They literally nerf something, and the thing they nerf makes a unit which used to be countered by the nerfed unit to become op.😂
It's so dumb.
It's always crazy seeing how low APM people are in these games after playing SC2 where if you have like 30-50 apm your basically doing very little
Issue of a micro game vs macro game.
Imagine how SC2 would play if SCVs/Drones/Probes cost no supply and minerals/vespene never ran out.
28:03 the quaker model update made me sad that they suck so bad compared to sheldon :( there's not really a reason to use them over sheldon