I've said it for years, this game isn't survivor or killer sided, it's asshole sided. Whoever wants to come in with the sole purpose of being as efficient as possible or simply making the other side as miserable is most likely going to come out on top. The amount of tools that killers and survivors have guarantees if someone wants too, they're going to make the overall match a nightmare for the other side, and it doesnt help that behaivors solution most of the time is bandaid fixes on top of bandaid fixes further compounding and engraining these issues into the game, making them much harder to actually address properly.
Nah I don't disagree with you especially when the game sometimes encourages the player to play like a asshole like the killer has 1 hook and has only 2 gens in 3 minutes of the game. Or how survivors just bring a lot of second chance perks just so they could have a chance to win or rat out until hatch
ah, I've been preaching the same under almost every single "Us vs Them" post I could find. It's asshole sided and then the people come and argue with comp or "I only have fun when I win so screw you"...
I agree man, I also think there is a continental difference between playing against solo Que survivors and swf survivors, similarly the difference between playing solo and playing a in a swf drastically affects how manageable average to great killers are
@dillonn3918 example of yesterday: I played SWF. We weren't particulary good, in fact we 4 man died a lot but we had fun mostly. The other people go to bed and I decided to play a little SoloQ before I go too. Blight, Pain Res Pop, Groaning Storehouse. 3 teammates who ran after the killer, I was the only one to ever touch a gen - a gen that got all 4 pain res while being at 20% max each time. Match was over after 7 minutes. I am not mad at the Blight, but dissapointed in my bread for brains teammates. That was one of the matches of all time. SoloQ can be fun, as I got a great group right before that match against a Bubba (we all died regardless but it was a close fun match) - but it can also be the least fun you will ever have in this game. Now the Blight was even nice as he didn't tunnel or anything... my teammates were just that down bad for the flashy saves or whatever they were trying to do.
Watching this video as a sociology student makes me happy that DBD is a perfect case study around lowest kinds of tribalism. I'll use it to study for exams in January.
Fuck me, you know the game has reached record levels of low if the community could literally be used as a study of a literal way of life we used to have as fucking *cavemen*.
They REALLY need to have “ranked” and “normal” modes. People would get far less tilted if they KNEW they would be playing against a sweaty/meta build pre-match.
In theory it sounds great, but considering how commonly people who had a bad match take it out on the next group, it just paints a target on your back. Had a bad killer match in ranked with a SWF head-on stunning you constantly? Why not go into the normal mode with Nurse & force slug everyone in the "casual" mode? Vice-versa for survivors as well.
Works well for cod, apex legends, OW ... I'm sure it'll work well for DBD. (No it won't. Sweats won't Iike going against other sweats and will just go back to pubs. So they can sweat against baby huntress)
We KNOW what that would be like. Go play 2v8, go play Chaos Shuffle, go play the events -- the sweaty players just migrate to whichever mode they think will be easier. We see it every single time an event comes out. And with 2v8 especially, we see what happens when the playerbase is ACTUALLY split between 2 modes. 15-30 minute queues in both lobbies, which will lead to the playerbase dropping because who wants to play a game that takes that long to load into? We don't have ranked and casual, but we have competitive and casual. If people leave the competitive game IE the normal mode, for the casual one, you're going to have the comp players follow them because they don't want to play with other sweaty players, they want to play with Survivors/Killers they can wreck.
You sir dodged a bullet :D I'm only doing it to chase closure tbh, get all achievements + challenges done, then never play it again. But if people are stupid enough to disregard my advice (2000ish hours here) and never play this game, at least study Otzdarva's and Mr Tatorhead's videos, you'll learn a lot about DBD and the game will become a lot more bearable my friends :)
@TheLogicalBeast I got 1.5k hours into this game by playing duo with a friend/hillbilly(pre-buff), wesker and blight. However playing surv you either stomp the killer or get stomped cuz you get 2 braindead teammates, and playing killer you get stomped by just going against 4 competent survs with good perks. You just can't get a good back and forth in this game.
@@clowno4206yeah when I play survivor I get brain dead teammates and when I play killer I get the worlds best survivors and loopers it’s very frustrating which is why MMR is bad for gaming because the game basically punishes you for getting better at the game
@@Darkart-BLCK I think we can all agree that DBD's core is fun (the chase), but BHVR enjoys removing fun things and replacing it with boring stuff or bandaid fixes with perks.
@ yeah because BHVR is trying to make the game competitive when the game wasn’t meant to be like that since the beginning and that’s what makes it boring and repetitive
Ardetha nailed completely something that i talk about with my friends since 2021 as a person who play more survivor, if i dont "genrush" im completely demolished by killers and if i "genrush" im removing the total fun of the game, this game needs some new surv objectives asap
- Totems : Useless unless killer/surv perk needing an interaction with them - Chests : Useless unless dedicated build - Generator : GEN GEN GEN GEN GEN - Killer power : Gives debuffs if left alone but some you can get away with leaving untouched - Hooks : have a Sabo build, otherwise don't Gens litterally having the only useful interactions is partly why "genrushing" is a thing. If you don't GEN you're not coming home. (Rock and Stone ⛏️)
There’s a whole other objective that has to be done during a match. Opening the gates and actually escaping. There’s perks on both sides that shine during endgame. Survivors can be having the best match ever but throw it all away because they didn’t account for NOED.
Yeah I don't get the hatred of gen-rushing, the only way to win (other than hatch) is to complete gens. It's like if survivors got mad at killers for killing... oh wait they do. DBD players just love complaining.
"Most people aren't going to write an entire Harry Potter book every time they want to throw their two cents in." Dude, have you even READ end-game chat?
The main issue is that the Behaviour's solution to overpowered/unfair tactics is to add perks to counter them But if a killer never slugs, your anti-slugging perk is basically an empty slot, if survivors don't genrush, your anti-gen rush perks do nothing. And you can't counter every kind of unfun playstyle with 4 perks, so no matter what there's a chance you'll be stuck against an unfun playstyle you can't deal with
It;s tough, because as much as I'd love to see basekit fixes like basekit (but weaker than the perk version of) Unbreakable, Corrupt Intervention, Decisive Strike, I know about their caveats too. Basekit UB, we saw how it can be abused in that PTB so maybe a vote to give up if left long enough on the ground instead? Corrupt would be fine on weaker killers, but oppressive on Nurse/Blight etc. Decisive makes sense if tunnelling at 5 gens, but at 3-1 gens left and you need some pressure, feels bad being hit by that perk. Basekit fixes I feel CAN work, but BHVR have to proceed *very* carefully when doing so, otherwise they could do more harm than good imho
Well the issue is that they created perks to solve inherent game design issues instead of just completely reworking the game to remove those issues. a good example is face camping. realistically speaking, that just shouldn't happen, because good designers would make sure it can't happen at all. but BHVR instead of solving the core issue, creates perks as a band aid fix. instead of just making SWF friends impossible. or just make player communication a real factor when designing the game, they instead create perks and what not as a band aid solution
@@grimsdol4665literally the easiest way to bridge swf and solo queue is to add some sort of quick chat but it’s been this long and they still haven’t thought of something so simple 😭
Once (luckily, only once) I was told by some weirdo, that Artist is too OP with sniping and I should learn to play fun killers instead (bro literally stood swarmed on one place, I didn't even need to send more than 1 crow after him 💀). Like, my mistake, next time I just place my crows only on loops instead like a lobotomy patient. XD
I did this yesterday, punishing only the selfish teammates (who refused to save) and letting the others go. The surviving teammates were maaaaaaaaaad about it 💀
Most of the times I take a spectrum approach, the better the killer the more hook stages I give the survs before I kill them, the lower the strength the harder I will try to win. And with this I apply the rule of how much is my ass getting kicked during the match, if I get 2/3 downs before 2 gens(these are indicatives numbers)I will try to go for the 8 hook stages before killing anyone (with the exception of map offerings and tbagging) if I have 1 hook stages and 3 gens are done I will try to tunnel out the person I have.
I just go with the flow. If i'm winning hard, i try less. If they're putting up a hard fight, i try more, using even tunneling and well timed camping if i have to. All's fair if both sides give it their A game. I still let the last person semi often, if they act a lil cute.
I am usually reacting to the survivors. If the survivors are getting sweaty, I can sweat a little myself. If the survivors want to be friendly, always be nice in return.
I'll break it down for ya quick Ardetha. I started playing this game a very long long time ago. And at the time I was a killer main. Now not so much. But when I started playing. Survs could make life for a killer absolutely miserable. And in the red ranks/Rank 1 people absolutely did just for shiz and giggles. And after years of that. I became mean. A "they did unto me so I will do unto others" type thing. Even if I felt like being chill for a game. I remembered all the years of infinites and t bagging/hyper flashie clicks and old dead hards and I get extra mean. I'm not the only killer that was like this. The longer us killers stayed mean. The more survivors started to get meaner. Thus began a nasty cycle. And this game is basically tribalism simulator already. But this cycle. Made us all really hate each other. The devs switching of balance too didn't help this. So now here we all are. Sitting in a pit of toxicity.
Mhm. This right here is the truth. I went through the exact same thing, and even though it's gotten so much better over the years, that resentment in me just festered to the point where at some point I found myself fully engaged in Us vs Them (I kind of hate the people who denounce the Us vs Them mentality, though. Not because they're inherently wrong, but because the way they do it just turned them into a third tribe arguing with everyone else and thinking they're somehow not covered in the same shit) And because so many other people have gone through the same thing, that resentment becomes doctrine, to the point where you can't even try to be rational because one of the sides will attack you for it. And people think voice chat is what the game needs. Psh.
I agree with all your points. Though, voice chat would be nice. Don't get me wrong, i, personally, would have it disabled by default. I know better as a woman playing pvp games 😅 But if it helps some solo queuers coordinate, and maybe removes communication as this issue that the devs just cannot balance around, the i say go for it, add voice chat
@magical571 I honestly like voice chat in games. It let's me be misandrist. But I know if there was voice chat I'd be banned in 2 days lmao. But it's funny bc I find that women are way better at dbd than men. Whenever I get ran decently I find its a female streamer and the other way around its that the men are often noobs or just bad.
@@yeetmcskeet9533 I’d just like to point out that if I, as a man, said that ‘men are way better at dbd than women’ or that ‘women are often noobs or just bad’, I would be instantly cancelled. But it’s okay when the roles are reversed. Gender equality yo
Survivors abusing the old DBD was what I believe started this war. While now a days DBD is debated if it’s a party game or a competitive game, back in 2016 it was undoubtedly a party game as it was fun to run out an exit gate and watch your friend step in a bear trap and laugh at their misfortune. Or have a killer Role play as Myers and genuinely be scary. Unfortunately today Players go Into matches just solely to ruin other players days.
Another layer of the problem is that the playerbase's perception of these unfun playstyles differ between each other. For example, tunneling. In my book, there's hard-tunneling which is to purposedly only chase one single person ever, there's normal tunneling which is to still try to get hooks elsewhere but always choose to go for the person with the highest hook count (notably when a Killer comes back to an unhook and chases the unhooked person instead of the unhooker), and there's accidental tunneling where you just happen to always find the same person without even trying. But for many people, what is accidental tunneling in my book is actually hard-tunneling in their books. Heck, I've seen people call someone out for tunneling despite that killer actively trying to 2-hook everyone. When I saw that, I pretty much understood that the community has grown tired of these unfun playstyles, and the line they tolerate has greatly dropped.
I had 8 hooks total with 4 survivors still alive, so 2 on everyone. Still got told I was tunneling in the end game chat, even though I never once hooked the same person twice in a row and spread them out like that...
I personally try to articulate all my arguments. Otherwise you won't save time because people will just argue with you about points you were never making. People will do this regardless but articulating makes it a lot easier to deal with.
Yep. I don´t care whether someone is too lazy to read an articulated argument. If you cannot take few seconds to read, then Im not interested in your opinion in the first place. So, feel free to ignore that argument and not contribute at all, good riddance. And if you do, your opinion weights more, and deserves more respect (unless it is the "gg ez, your wrong, l2p bot, skill issue dog" kind of response) in well-mannered discussion.
I started playing DBD around March 2023 and very quickly it became apparent to me that, for the most part, if one side is winning, the other side is having a miserable time. It sucks. As someone who very regularly plays survivor, I very often find myself trying to meme with both killers and other survivors just for the simple fact that it takes the pressure off of both sides.
Here’s the thing, no one that saw DBD at the game store when it came out was like “oh I hope this is a fair game that I can enjoy with my friends!” Everyone saw trapper looking like a knock off jason and went “what’s this?” Some people went “it’s like a playable version of a slasher flick, you can be the killer or the survivor.” No one is expecting to get out of a slasher flick alive. The game is asymmetric by design and that’s why gen rushing is valid. At the start of the match u minimize your time spent playing by doing what you need to do to get out. As the game goes on it should become more killer sided. All DBD is now is psychological warfare.
A big part of the issue with tome challenges is that they VERY frequently require survivors to throw their matches to get them done in a timely manner, while killers tome challenges are usually pretty fluidly designed into their gameplay. The compouding issue with that is that survivor bp economy is pitiful most of the time, especially with tunneling. And a guaranteed 15-50k from a tome challenge is automatically better than an optional 13-25k on average. Improving the survivor bp economy and making side objectives not feel like a waste of time would go a long way towards quality of life. Dismantling tunneling and gen rushing at their cores instead of repeated bandaid solutions and giving both sides time to finish their objecive would also be potentially beneficial. However it may come at the cost of gameplay intensity and loss of atmosphere. Fixing the situation is a very delicate subject, especially with such a sensitive community.
except you forget that killers NEED to spent way more points to make every killer viable, whereas after the first prestige there's not any reason to spend bp on a survivor unless you really like how they look and want to lvl up all their perks.
@fredrickmansav6852 survivors NEED to spend bp on their items (power) and addons, if they don't they have to give up time during the game to do things that don't progress the game, just because you can't open your mind to the survivor experience doesn't mean it doesn't suffer from many or most of the same struggles. Killer is just as playable as survivor with or without extra help from addons. Do not conflate your experience as the universal. Until you can consider both sides of the dbd player base on an objective level I see no point in continuing this conversation with you.
Here's my solution to make gens less boring and survivor gameplay more active out of chases: Every 25% progress, the gen needs a replacement part that is located on a random chest around the map. Gens regress slower the more replacement parts they have. Gens are faster to compensate and chest perks become somewhat useful. And survivors don't need to make someone ragequit to have any fun.
I've had a similar idea. Gens require 4 pistons. Each piston allows a gen to reach 25/50/75/100%. They can be installed at any time but a gen with 0 pistons can only reach 24%, a gen with 3 can only reach 99%. Instead of faster gens the catch is each piston locks in 5%, so while a could have 4 pistons and 0 repair progress, the gen can't regress below 20%. A killer couldn't even kick the gen at that point until its past 20%. Edit:Forgot to mention pistons wouldn't take up an item slot a but a survivor can only carry one at a time.
I have also had a very similar idea to this. The only thing I really did differently was that the changes don't apply tk 3 gens. Since the 3 gen is easier to camps making it harder for that to be repaired might honestly making camping that area really miserable for the survivors. But maybe that would be unnecessary.
And here's a couple of changes to items to help with this idea: Brand New Part: now counts as four parts for the purpose of generator repair, meaning someone can immediately jump on a gen and dump a BNP into it, making the process of fixing the gen faster. Manufactured Part: counts as three parts for the purpose of generator repair, green tier BNP. Scavenged part: counts as two parts for the purpose of generator repair, yellow tier BNP. Rusty part: counts as one part for the purpose of generator repair, brown tier BNP. For all intents and purposes, the Scavenged part can be removed and just lower the amount of parts provided by the top two by one, so no part that can be brought in gives the ability to fully repair a generator. Maybe add components that lock in a amount of generator progress, for instance, reinforced piston: prevents generator progress from falling below 20% but requires 20% completion prior to installation (sturdy piston: 15% cracked piston: 10% stripped piston: 5%) similar to what another commentor added. Honestly, generators really need some spicing up regardless of how they choose to do so.
My opinion: "I like slugging because many of the matches I encountered at higher mmr usually had survivors bringing tools that made hooking feel like a waste of time, so I would rather apply pressure through slugging. Meanwhile at lower mmr, slugging is very unnecessary and just overkill as the players there are playing with less anti-hooking perks that don't make hooking feel unrewarding and those at lower mmr tend to be more novice in their gameplay." What someone might take away from it: "I like slugging"
This right here. I’m tired of being told off for slugging at higher MMR when ik there’s a 4 sabo flashbang breakout squad with stuff like power struggle or flip flop or boil over. I’m leaving them on the ground 100% of the time and they’d better pray someone brought UB or exponential. Otherwise you get sent to eyrie and get zero hooks.
The issue with dbd is either side can do miserable things to the other, and you have no clue its going to happen before you load in unironically, when there wernt dc penaltys the game was less toxic, if someone is playing unfun you can just leave and go into a different match, but nowadays you're forced to play out the match even if the game is already lost which leads to a lot of building frustrations, no one wants to get send to badham against a 4man swf as freddy likewise no one wants to deal with a turbo 3 gen slugging hag but if you don't want a ban you'd better play it out the proper fix is to remove these outliers but im actually in favour of lessening the dc penalty until anything is done about it
Just give 2 DCs a day for free then immediately just go up to a 30min ban after the 3rd, and consequently remove all DC penalties in the lobby after the first person dies or DCs.
If four survivors dc, the killer should get a free dc. If 3 survivors dc, the remaining survivor and killer should get a free dc. The freebie DCs should not take away the BP they earned up until that point, nor should it take away their items/add-ons. Remove endurance that rewards bad plays (like picking up someone off the ground in front of killers with WGLF, formerly the FTP + BU combo). Make boons have tokens and take out shattered hope. Do not allow flashbangs to blind killers despite eating the wall, BGP makes these saves a guarantee and good killers will refuse to pick up when they know you have it (which encourages slugging). Game design devs should play a killer and survivor game on live public servers with every stream BHVR hosts to prove their goodwill and understanding towards the community. But none of these things will ever happen, there will always be some new bs the devs don’t think is a problem whilst it gets exploited by swfs that want killers to dc or killers that want survivors to dc.
Another problem is the games most toxic playstyles are often the most effective, and so people tend to go from "ill use this when I need to" to "why don't I just use this every game to always win?" to which they then no longer know how to play the game without using said toxic playstyle, which they then employ against players who are nowhere near skilled enough to counter it, driving them out of the game, only leaving the sweats who then respond with their own hyper toxic strategy. Basically, someone going from using a strategy only as needed, to lazily becoming a bully, looping right around to becoming the bullied themselves because they bullied out everyone who wasn't being a bully. Also doesn't help that the matchmaker is so stupidly designed you go from 1 match against a killer/survivors with 15k hours, followed by a killer/survivors with less than 30 hours total, so one match you may use every toxic strategy in your playbook and still not stand a chance, followed by an opponent whom you could beat with the monitor turned off yet, you still employ toxic strategies because you assume your opponent will outskill you as badly as the last one did, only to find out you bullied the crap out of literal baby players. The game just sucks to play, for everyone, but hey, at least that summer skin for Sable is really cute. May as well hate every second of my life for another 50 matches.
Before I stopped playing due to a combination of factors, I would almost exclusively play demo with Coulrophobia, Unnerving Presence, Surge, and Distressing. Only one of those can be considered meta in any way. I would still consistently stomp people without camping nor tunneling. I feel like more people should limit themselves to bad/off-meta perks to learn how to be actually good instead of relying on crutches
@@Draco-9158 I could not agree more. I was playing since the game came out, and got good with Nurse which, obviously shes OP but I didn't have a lot of other options back then. Playing her still taught me important lessons about how to properly play the killer role though, things like proper positioning to cut off effective escape routes when ambushing gens, how to properly mindgame in loops, how to predict where survivors would go, how to herd them to weak chasepoints ect, and these skills transferred over to every killer I played after as they released ones I was interested in, and winning has rarely been an issue to me. It got boring having a 90% stomp rate and, I kinda quit. Nowadays, killers don't practice any of those things. They practice camping and tunneling, and that's literally it. They are terrible at chases, they are terrible at ambushes, they are terrible at everything, because tunneling and camping has completely removed their need to improve at the game in the ways that originally were mandatory if you wanted to be competitive, and thus, their matches revolve entirely on that first catch and if they don't get it fast enough for camping and tunneling to work, they DC, go to the forums, and cry. Plus, that camping and tunneling by default has made the game so unfun for the other side that most of the players who weren't good enough to prevent it, leave, resulting in the only remaining players being fairly decent at countering this strategy which again, leads to killers not knowing what else to do and demanding constant nerfs to anti-tunnel perks. Its sad. Its like the players who have never played Elden Ring before looking up a video on what weapon blasts through bosses the easiest and not learning how to play the game without using that 1 weapons overpowered special attack. I just don't get what mindset someone has to have to only be willing to learn the easiest, most boring and toxic strategy to win, and feeling like its the games fault every time they don't win with it when they are intentionally avoiding learning the 90% of the gameplay that is supposed to be what makes them good at the game.
A really out-there game design rework to address current issues. This would be a massive overhaul and would need a lot of care and attention to make sure it succeeds (which means it'll never come close to fruition): 1) There are no hook stages. Taking a page from the board game (if I recall correctly), there is a single Sacrifice Progression bar. Hooking Survivors advances that bar. Spreading the misery by hooking different Survivors & hooking them non-consecutively advances the bar more than by repeatedly tunneling the same survivor off-hook. Once the bar is full, the Survivor becomes instantly sacrificed once they become hooked again. Regular sacrifice rules still apply (Final Mori, if all remaining survivors are hooked they are instantly sacrificed, going to next hook stage grants some progress to the Killer, etc). 2) In addition to generators (which may be adjusted to compensate for this), Survivors must appeal to the Entity and make an offering at a Ritual Site (not sure if this would spawn as a prop or as an actual location, but maybe it spawns opposite of Basement, so it spawns either in the main building or in Killer Shack). To do so, they must enter the Basement to retrieve an Offering (like a skull or something idk) and return it to a Ritual Site. This Offering can behave similarly to a white glyph, where rushing, falling, or being hit by a Killer's attack destroys the offering, so Survivors must be quick and stealthy to place the offering at the Ritual Site (this also provides a better use for perks like Urban Evasion, Lightweight, and even Territorial Imperative). The Offering idea can be implemented in one of two ways. It can either be a mandatory rule, or it can be a means to accelerate gen progress, such as each Offering made taking 4 charges off each generator (once per Survivor).
Really love these ideas for adding more to the game. Main issue I see with the second one though, is what stops killers from camping the ritual site? Or camping the basement for that matter, since they know survivors have to go there first, and its already a prime spot to camp victims in the game.
@@feathero3 That's partially why I'm thinking it would be better off as an optional thing, with the bit about shaving off charges from gens. It would certainly add some flavor to the survivor gameplay and actually be a true secondary objective. If the Killer chose to camp the sites in those instances, they would lose pressure on regular gen repairs. The only other real solution would involve expanding the maps to all have multiple (3+) Ritual Site tiles and Survivors only need to transport the offerings between two Sites, such that the Killer can't truly camp them.
honestly green glyphs should be the standard for how the rest work (along with their unique gimmick), where the glyphs require the game to progress in order to spawn and their location is revealed after the gens are completed
1:22 to be fair i’d also be mad if i went to a random soup bar and i kept getting cream of mushroom or sumn and everyone else is getting tomato or chicken noodle soup
I may be wrong because I know they've been adding in new glyphs constantly, but I believe only the purple glyph moves around and is specifically only a killer challenge. HOWEVER glyphs on a whole suck and cause people to throw matches just to find them.
I'm grinding all the glyphs and second that. Only the Killer's Purple Glyph will move. If BHVR programmed an Aura Reveal for Glyphs at the start of a Trial for ≥5 seconds it would still be a challenge while also being possible to progress every match.
@@YillanTheVillain I wish they all acted like the Purple Glyph, where after hooking a survivor they're revealed for a bit. Could make it for survivors so after completing a generator they're revealed for a bit. Or at the very least, could be like the Green Glyphs, and show them selves at the end game collapse.
@@feathero3 Considering how much of a task it can be to get a gen done against a sweaty Killer, I think unhooks should reveal glyphs. Maybe also being unhooked would show the glyphs too. This way you can still do the challenge even if you're getting STOMPED, and if you're VS. a baby Killer you'll find the Glyph easily by wandering. No matter what finding the Glyph would be a win-win.
I think he doesnt mean move around in the way of the purple glyph but rather that after each gen is done its spawn is somewhere else. Glyphs replace totem spots that are unused in the trial, but there is multiple of them so the glyph can be on diffrent locations in 1 trial. You just dont see it moving because you have not found it yet.
An interesting video, but afaik the 'glyphs' DON'T move around the map, except for the Killer-sided PURPLE one....which leaves a purple blood trail that makes it trackable. Red/yellow/blue/pink glyphs stay static (although yellow & pink ones disappear and relocate to a new static spot if not completed successfully), orange ones appear at the start right next to the Killer, white ones appear in the basement after you get the static first part (which is visible to the player, but does require you not to get hit heading to the basement or else the challenge restarts), and green ones appear in static spots when survivors are hooked/gens completed as the game progresses.
This was my only problem with this video, there are many different kinds of glyphs, only one or two of them move around, and some of them reveal themselves at certain points, like green glyphs are revealed when someone is hooked (I think) and when the gates are powered
Hes probably talking about how blue/red glyphs are NOT in the same place but Static, they spawn in a random place each match, so you need to scout the whole map trying to find one, and if you don't, good luck scounting another map until you find it
My solution to Tunneling. Instead of giving endurance, temporarily remove collision and if the killer is near give a haste effect similar to when you get hit. Also helps fix the issue of survivors aggressively unhooking right infront of the killer and using the unhooked to body block. To fix gen rushing, add pistons for gens. Each piston allows a gen to be repaired by 25%/50%/75"/100% and prevents a gen from regressing by 5/10/15/20%. If a gen has 0 pistons it can only be repaired up to 24%, if it has 3 it can only go to 99%. All 4 pistons can be installed before a gen has even been slighly repaired. You could install all 4 pistons while the gen is at 0%. Survivors could get them from boxes scattered about. Have it take a coupke seconds to get from a box and a couple seconds to install. Once installed they can't be removed, pistons don't take up an item slot, are destroyed if a survivor is hooked/killed, can only be carried one at a time. Boxes do not run out and there should be enough so the killer can't just camp them. The goal being to have the survivors spead more time moving around which slows the game down without just increasing gen times. It gives more chances for killer/survivor interaction. It also provides some protection against 3 genning, and gives a layer of strategy. Do you install all pistons in every gen, all 4 before repairing, or do you only go for the ones you're repairing? Should 2 survivors start repairing gens while 1 distracts killer and the last survivor focuses on installing pistons? For slugging I'd maybe consider a special meter. If 2 or more survivors are down, survivors gain a second recovery bar. Once they've recovered to the point another survivor has to pick them up, a second meter appears, when a player fills that bar up they can pick themselves up off the ground. Disable this ability if all gens are done. This way perks like soul guard, no mither, plot twist, etc still get value. I don't know if the second bar should freeze if the number of downed survivors changes to 1. Don't want a situation where survivors are rewarded for dog piling in spot where the killer can't hook.
Killer main with only 300 hours here. I expect survivors to "genrush," I didn't even realize this was a controversial aspect of the game. I don't tunnel, but I will if survivors are being click/annoying/tea bagging.
I agree with you. I’m not sure what else survivors are supposed to spend their time doing if not gens. Yeah obviously rescues when someone’s hooked and healing each other (maybe opening a chest if they used up their item) but not everyone needs to run to the hooked survivor so obviously the rest will keep doing gens if not being chased or healing someone. I don’t think tunneling is that wrong either, hook camping to rehook them immediately yes but just prioritizing a previously hooked player over a non-hooked one seems like the right thing to do.
@ 100%. The goal of each side is to win. That’s the point of the game. Tunneling helps killers win, genrushing helps survivors win. The nature of an asymmetrical game like this necessarily gives the killer more power over each individual survivor, but the survivors as a team are more likely to “win” than a killer if they communicate and understand game mechanics. Survivors honestly just seem like they want it all, so to speak. They want to get all the gens, rescue everyone, and escape more often than not, which is just not possible by the nature of DBD.
on that last point you could keep gens as is, but you are also required to find a key (or similar tool) to open the exit doors which can only be found in chests
Unironically DBD could use a prematch all chat system, like rainbow 6(source: 2k hoursish in each game). That game is a toxic cesspool but people still agree to talk before the match and decide map bans, banning the maps that the lobby find the least fun. I'd love to be able to say to survivors "Hey, I wont tunnel if you guys dont genrush" or "hey bring your sweaty shit, testing out a strong build" would be a huge help.
@@jay-1800 none is being discussed, the few conversations I have had/seen is "I hope I get stepped on by a Huntress" or "Wanna be my second braincell and I will be your first?" not my words XD
@@jay-1800 it's only for survivors. killer cannot commune through it which sucks in my opinion. imo for console players they need to add like a phrase system so they can communicate back, which is the biggest barrier (i know at least switch players can't see shit) i do think if killers and survs can commune there would be actual valuable pregame chat
@@thatoneVoidDemon I mean there’s no reason for killers and survivors to be talking in pre game. In customs you can but random lobbies would be pretty toxic and encourage toxic gameplay. As a PC player with the pre game chat there’s basically never any strategy discussed ahead of time. At most you’ll get someone wanting to stack bp offerings or just people joking around or a glhf. If anything I’d rather see them implement at the very least proximity chat for survivors in game. There’s so many situations or even builds that are nearly impossible to play against without some coordination.
A ranked playlist really would solve, or at least heavily reduce these issues. It mainly comes down to how one has fun, do they enjoy goofing around and playing the game for fun? Or do they enjoy playing the game to win? Inherently, neither of those are wrong, because anyone is allowed to play as they wish. Players that play for fun may be miserable playing against people playing to win, but at the same time, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with playing to win. At the very least, a ranked playlist would consist mostly of competitive players, making unranked more casual and fun for those who aren’t strictly playing to win.
I had a game where the killer was chasing a teammate, so me and another teammate moved towards a gen. The teammate I was with was injured and walked past the gen and straight into a locker. I figured since the killer was in chase near us, but not next to us, we should heal at the very least, so I started pointing at the locker to call out the injured teammate. The second they came out, they were grabbed by the Ghostface and hooked straight away. It was so funny, but I felt really bad. The teammate dc before she even got hooked as well lol.
6:01 Tunneling is a skill issue on part of the survivors. It's a non issue. Just like camping was because there's an opportunity cost associated with both. In fact the game is worse since they changed hook camp. Killers aren't your friend & beating someone that uses these tactics was always super satisfying, getting a 4man out on a facecamper was absolutely priceless & sometimes having a death spiral turn into an every man for themselves situation was also interesting, there were more dynamic ways a match could unfold. Someone having trouble regulating negative emotion isn't a valid reason to change game mechanics, Dark Souls taught us that.
I once saw someone say behaviour loves killers so they are overpowered when i asked for proof they said behaviour keeps nerfing survivor perks.... as if killer's didn't also get perk nerfs on top of power nerfs.
Killers have more powerful perks, several powers (some killers have up to 4 different abilities), can go through the map much quicker than survs, are faster, and the servers are on their side meaning hits get validated based on THEIR screen which is straight unfair. Counter measures are also killer sided. For example, the camping unhook bar is disabled once the gates are powered to guarantee the killer his kill even if he camps.
@hiendral9533 survivors also have super powerful perks. killer perks also got massive nerfs to the point of not being run anymore? Skull merchant has gotten to the point where she's not useful in most matches unless you get lucky with a group of survivors who don't know how to counter her. The reality is dbd is a game of chess. Skill is mostly "how can i counter something". If you ask me how the game was sided I'd say It's usually 4 man swfs 3 man swfs Killer 2 man swfs Soloq. I play a lot of everything so i see a good portion of the differences. At the end of the day tho the side that wins is just the side better at doing mind games. Like you can run extremely powerful perks and still lose against a competent opponent. Or even lose against a newer player if you get cocky. Its essentially chess plain and simple. Having a crap ton of powerful perks won't help you against a team that can play against them.
@@404Khakis_not_found Killers have a billion aura reading perks and the only surv counter was nerfed to the ground. Taurie's perk was nerfed as well when it was perfectly fine because killer mains cried about it countering tunneling too hard. And it's always like that.
@@hiendral9533 aura isn't always strong though. If a killer can't hit a survivor aura does nothing. Also did you not watch the video? Everything you're saying is subjective. Perks are only as good as the people who use them. Some perks are stronger than others but if you don't know how to use them they do nothing.
Not sure tunnelling and gen rushing are comparable. If the killer decides not to tunnel, they are still doing their main objective: Killing survivors. If a survivor is not doing gens, they are basically idling. You can't expect anyone to go "oh, two gens, no hooks, let me stand in the corner for a minute." It's an issue with the game. There are no valid things to do for survivors, except gens and unhooking/healing. But if no one is being hooked, there's only gens. I don't know if there can be a solution to this, tbh. The gameplay for both sides is too different.
It doesn't really matter if they're comparable from the player "idling" as you put it. It's comparable in the sense of "doing the objective efficiently makes the other side miserable and makes the gameplay for both unenjoyable outside of winning more" which is the most important part(s). Survivors can do chest and totems, it's just not worth the loss. The killer can go after fresh survivors, it's just not worth the loss. Imo that makes them comparable enough from that angle as well. It might not be "idling" exactly but it's definitely "wasting time" for both sides and shooting yourself in the foot for no objective reason.
@shadowofsecracy I'm sorry I can't agree. One is "doing the objective" (hooking any survivor), one is "not doing the objective to stall time for the other side" (doing useless chests). I play solo queue. If I'm not actively doing gens or unhooking, I'm sabotaging my team. And how often have I seen a game turn around with two gens left. I never know how the game will turn around because of devour hope or a 3 gen situation no one was aware of. Gen rushing gives you a somewhat higher chance of winning. Tunnelling out one survivor on the other hand feels like a 99% win for the killer. So, doesn't seem comparable imo. "Shoulder the burden", "Off the Record" and basekit "borrowed time" have not been added for nothing. It's because an early 3v1 basically ends a match. It's problematic.
@@MBeck-sj1bp Its similar for the killer. You never know if your gonna get a gen 3 pop at 2 mins or not until its too late. This is probably going to come off mean but if you can't agree, that's exactly the type of mindset holding this problem in place and holding the community back. Whether it totems, chest, or spreading the hooks the end result is the same, doing the objective less efficiently leading to a loss that could otherwise be prevented at worse and a much harder game at best. Your last argument shows to me some survivor bias or lack in knowledge imo, both massively increase you chances of winning, it's not "slightly" for one and "99%" for the other. Both skyrocket your chances, especially against players who don't use the other tactic.
@@shadowofsecracy that's why I said "feels like 99%". Because I don't have the numbers. But tunnel one out, chances are pretty high another player will d/c or go afk. So, in my experience this is a bigger problem. It's not like I'm never doing anything else. When I used my medkit and see a chest, I'll probably open it if we are in an okay position. If there is a hex, I will always look for it. But again, I think the difference with both strategies is big.
@@MBeck-sj1bp Players deciding to DC or go AFK is a player problem not a tunnel or genrush problem. They do that even in games where those tactics don't happen and there's not much you can do from a balancing point to change that. Those players need to grow up and the community needs to stop making excuses for them just because one side decided to play efficiently or some other petty matter. Thus encouraging their behavior. Both problems matter, both sides matter. Neither side is "more important" to fix. The main thing you've been pointing out is that spreading hooks will eventually have some value and doing totems won't. Sure that's true in most cases. Doing chest will still give you an item that can help, so I can't really say that won't have value in the same way, but it's also not worth the loss in most cases. While what you're saying is true, it's also not really the main problem and fixing it won't do anything. If you make doing totems do something like spreading hooks where eventually it does something, but not anywhere near as much as genrushing (tunneling) would, then you'll still have the same problem. It's not worth it. Because from an "efficiency" and "trying to win" standpoint nothing has changed. Sure it might feel slightly less bad than before for the survivor, but that doesn't really do anything substantial. Survivors will still genrush. The strategies are easily comparable in a "waste as little time as possible, I'm trying to win" standpoint, which is what really matters in the conversation and for fixing the problem. Because "wasting time" to make the experience not miserable for the other side just isn't worth it for your own. Whether that's spreading hooks or doing totems.
For your final idea, they could make chests also drop an item such as the gas tank you mentioned that must be delivered to a gen before it is able to be repaired. Or maybe the item is needed to unlock more than 50% of it, so that a team mate can work on it till 50% while you search for a chest. Maybe they could make something like rummage base kit so that once you get the gen item out of a chest you can then search the chest again for "useful" items which would essentially be a way to keep the current functionality of chests.
I actually just hate the box detection in this game, it's so easy to get stuck on corners, objects, walls, etc. whether you play survivor or killer. I also hate how inconsistent the action detection is, you hit a survivor dead on and the game decides you missed, or you go to drop a pallet and the game decides you're not close enough even though you're literally touching it. The online connectivity issues don't help either, even if everyone playing has a solid connection, the issues still persist. As for Tunneling and Gen Rushing, I think instead of 5 generators, have 1 generator per door, but instead of sitting there holding a button to fill the meter while doing skill checks, have the survivors first gather a set number of parts for which ever generator they plan to use to escape. Once the parts are put in place, then have the survivors build the meter up to activate the generator in order to open the door to escape. The parts are scattered and have to be carried by the survivors to the generator, if the killer hits them, they drop that part and will have to choose to either run for safety or risk going back for the part. This would potentially shake things up enough to where teamwork feels more impactful and the killer wouldn't have to constantly guard generators, but instead would now have to constantly be on the look out for any of the survivors to try and slow them down as much as possible or kill them before they complete one generators to escape.
@@Notj397just say what you mean man, you already have a person calling you racist, while i am seeing that you are saying dei means people that aren't the best person for the job because of racist qoutas.
Id say more accurately, when your Game Balance DPT plays the game like Mathaeu Cote against those 4 professional survivor streamers. You can't expect people who can't play their own game above the second-to-bottom skill bracket to properly balance for the top of the skillbase. They are so bad at games they are the type of players who are having to look down at their own hands to put their fingers back on WASD every time they hit spacebar, and they are the people who are trying to balance the game for professionals who have 20k hours+ in it, like its just never gonna happen.
It's a vicious circle and it will never end people have to learn sometimes you just get outplayed you get outsmarted . The problem is people feel everything has to be how they want it and if it doesn't they have to cry or get toxic about it
Gen rushing solution: "Altars". After completing 3 generators. The survivors must compete 3 Altars that require items now available AFTER the 3 generators are finished. Generators are still interactive until 5 gens are completed. They only contribute to gen specific perks/abilities (killer/survivor). Complete the Altars and the exit gates will be unblocked. Tunnel Solution: Purgatory mode. Survivors are now spirits. They can leave the match (and be replaced by a bot) or complete side objectives that give them more points as well as helps out their fellow survivors complete objectives. If all survivors down: "Entity's claim". All survivors have 3 seconds to use any perk/ability that allows them to get up from the dying state. If they do not get up, their bodies are claimed by the entity and are turned to spirits. End game addition: "Merge realms". Spirit realm has merged with the map. All vaults are broken and some walls are removed. Spirits can pass through each other and survivors. Spirits are broken and are now visible to all Survivors and the killer. Spirits can pass through the exit gate and hatch. Spirits cannot open the exit gate. If a spirit is hit by the killer, the spirit is destroyed and claimed by the entity. If all survivors become spirits, the endgame collapse begins and various hatches will spawn for a spirit to escape. One hatch per spirit.
Tunneling to me, is the killer focusing 1 survivor WITH immediately chasing them right after they are unhooked. Basically denying them really playing at all. Some killers you can loop and at least get some chase gameplay but like you stated, it's RNG. Its really hard to loop killers like nemisis, alien, Dracula, because they have attacks that can hit over obstacles. If you're up against a pro of one of those, getting tunneled will effectively mean "you don't get to play at all". I'm tried of people saying "skill issue" or "get good". Like really? This nemisis has 6,000 hours in dbd, i have 500. Lemme just close that gap really quick LOL like stfu
Recently had a game with my friend against a singularity, who's my favorite killer to go against. Everything went well at first, but singularity kept finding me and only my duo came to unhook me and vice versa. With bond I eventually saw the other two Fengs just standing and slapping each other the whole match. There was no reason for that, me and my duo even spoke in endgame chat to singularity that that was a shitty game because of the Fengs we were all sorry for each other because it could've been a great game. It was actually quite wholesome. That's what brings me to my point, personally the game is neither killer nor survivor sided, it always depends on the people who play with you. Have shit teammates? You can have the best chases of your life, it doesn't matter. Find yourself against a swf with a certain build? Well, it's gonna be sweaty. Have a killer with a bad day who wants to trap you in a corner of the map for God knows how long until you dc or the endgame timer runs out? Totally not speaking from experience.
We just need new objectives to replace gens. That's why I quit DBD, its not fun at all to hold one button for 90 seconds. And even chases don't feel that fun, as 50% of the time you just go down to some bull that you can't really predict/counter or you just get caught out in the open, 40% of the time the chase is just too easy and you don't feel challenged at all. 10% of the time, you get a really good chase against a killer who's your equal or a bit better than you and its a fun challenge. I just want DBD to become more casual again, they should make a 2v8 mode with game chat that has similar escape options to Friday the 13th, weapons for the survivors, the observer as Tommy Jarvis, unique ways to kill every killer, stats for all the survivors and killers, and making it so survivors have more health but only one life state
Sadly, I can attest to the "Efficiency doesn't always = Fun." thing. First time I gave Myer's a try? I tested the Tombstone (now dead, because of a nuke-nerf) combo. I literally won match in less than five minutes. The Survivor's were like, "Was that even remotely fun for you? Just curious." Me: "Honestly? Not really..." 10:35 "Some challenges are downright malicious." Can attest to that too. I DESPISE stun-work, and the main mechanics to best ensure it. I had do the Jane Romero challenge: "Stun a Killer THREE times, in the same match." That doesn't sound difficult, until you actually try it. Mind you, try doing it solo with randoms......
Heh, are we surprised? Probably not, either the devs ruining the charm of the killers and survivors or the player base being the select group of CoD tbagging sore losers, this game is an egg falling down fast
@@kit_mason Tbf killers can and and will tbag (ok only ghostface and pig can) or hump (everyone else) too, needless to say way less than survivors do, often as a reaction to something. Of course, it goes without saying that killers have different means of being assholes and can make a game absolutely miserable and toxic experience for the other side just as much as survivors can. If you play only survivor, you will think that killers are assholes and sociopaths. If you play only killer you will think that survivors are cocky sadistic assholes whose only calling in life is to make others miserable for their own pleasure. If you play both sides, you say that about both camps, but chances are that finding such survivors (since there are 4 of them in each match) are considerably higher than finding that kind of killer (1 max 2 per match, and random killers in 2v8 are usually chill, kwfs have usually higher chance of being like that).
@@kit_mason not exactly. as someone that plays both sides. more often then not it IS survivors that are assholes. think about it. how much freedom in perks and such do survivors have. yet at the same time how bottlenecked killers are into taking the same perks and any change. means you get zero kills or hooks ?
Well, if you refuse to face the root issues, even if that means facing a non 50-50 reality, then nothing will improve and i'll be disapointed at people like you.
I think the problem is that dbd’s most “efficient” playstyles basically take away the other side’s ability to play the game and are extremely unfun. In literally any other game you can still play against someone who uses “overpowered” weapons, characters, etc. In this game it’s basically the other side taking your keyboard from you
To stop genrushing the perk corrupt intervention should be base kit. You have survivors spawning right next to a gen and start holding M1 since the very first second. Imagine a survivor spawning right next to the killer. Not fair, right?
I've been thinking the same thing. A lesser version of Bond that gives just a general direction too since solo queue survivors have enough of a problem coordinating where SWFs can call out their location.
@@Mentlorfinally someone says it. It’s not hard to learn the map layouts at all. Windows is a literal waste of a perk slot for anyone who has any type of loop or map knowledge
It's be cool if they added something like needing to fuel the generators before fixing them, gas canisters would spawn in random locations on the map. Survivors would carry these to a generator while "hindered" carrying them due to the weight of the gasoline.
5:23 The problem is many survivors have no interest in not ruining the killer's fun. They can run the sweatiest meta perks, teabag, flashlight click, then end it off with a watch me leave and a "gg ez baby killer." But the second a killer does something inconvenient for the survivor, well, that killer should have been worrying about the survivor's fun.
Again, you're using the behavior of some people to justify the treatment of all survivors. People who play like what you said first will not expect you to play fair most of the time. You're using the behavior of, let's be real, very rare "bully squads" to justify treating regular solo queue players like this. All i can say is adapt your playstyle based on what you're going against. If you're going against a 4 man swf who's trying their hardest, match that energy. If you're going against 4 randoms who are running diversion or blast mine, adapt to that. There's no reason to apply a "one size fits all" approach when every killer match and every team of survivors are different.
@Lars-Liam-Vilhelm I don't disagree. To be clear, I never intentionally tunnel and have never slugged my way to a 4k. I'm just saying it seems to be entirely on killers to be concerned with everyone's experience.
Beautiful video, I absolutely agree that the main point should just be to give players more options and strategies than the unfun ones (genrush/tunneling)
Survivor is the stronger side by every measurable metric. Its coded in the dna of the game. The better the team the more imbalanced it is. S tier highly skilled killers can make it look like killer is strong. But its mostly a combination of skill and luck. Survivor is way easier to play on average. Even an s tier tunneling killer can be severely punished for tunneling. One good chase from the person being tunneled can make a killer regret the decision. Killers need to play the entire board and set up snowballs. They need touches and hooks on everyone. Simply doing gens will stop a killer from getting more than one or 2 kills.
Some stuff i saw was things like making chests give unique "entity specific" versions of items that are stronger then what you bring normally to incentivize chests, or maybe doing totems applying a smal repair speed bonus or something else. Then for killer just make it so after 1 survivor is dead all other survivors gain a repair speed bonus equal to the percentage of total hook stages remaining on others. So like if a survivor died on 3 straight hooks (out of 12 total) each other survivor could recieve a 33% bonus to compensate, but if more total stages were completed the bonuses go down exponentially. Just a couple random thoughts, what do I know lol :) nice video overall
Here's an off the wall thought: make Play With Your Food basekit for Killers. Maybe not specifically give movement speed bonuses for letting Survivors escape a chase, but give the Killer some kind of incentive for switching targets, toying with Survivors and otherwise acting like a horror movie monster.
My solution for genrushing would be to make the entity regress every other gen except two that have progress on them. The gen regression would be the same speed as survivors working on gens. (the gen regression would still kick in even if a survivor is currently working on the generator. Those gens then get automatic aura reading for survivors. (to buff soloq) The biggest problem of splitting up on gens is that it evaporates pressure from the killer. You cannot have any pressure when 3 gens are being worked on at the same time. So, make it impossible. While when two survivors work on a single gen, you can chase them off and thus pressure two survivors at the same time, which is really good pressure.
Why would you need to buff solo queue for killers lmao? And the solution is essentially making ruin and discordance base kit? That’s honestly so out of touch with what would actually be needed. If only two gens are allowed progress what happens when the killer is actually running gen slowdown/regression? The best counter to gen rushing.
I've always played like this: If survivors pop 2 gens within the first 2 minutes of a match, i will tunnel. If they take forever to pop each gen then i try to go for 12 hook states. If they complain in endgame chat, then boohoo, this is why i like going against console players more, they can't use endgame chat, it's just relaxing not having survivors yell at me in it.
Punishing survivors for doing the only objective that actively helps them get closer to escaping sounds a bit silly... are they just supposed to run to the corner of the map and crouch because you think gens are going too fast? And how does tunneling make the problem any better, its likely that the person youre tunneling is the only one who hasnt been genrushing so why punish them when they havent done anything? When i play killer i dont just go stand in basement because i got 4 downs before the first gen popped. Pesonally i just dont care, you win some you lose some. Some strategies are always going to be more effective than others, being toxic or punishing the other side for trying to win is a really dumb concept. People need to stop caring so much about winning, thats what ruins the experience in my opinion. If all youre focused on is getting a 4k or 4 man escape then youre going to have a bad time most of the time. Just go with the flow and play out the match like a normal person would, stop caring about winning and losing and just let the match play out to the best of your ability. Have fun, get in a few chases and enjoy yourself. That's way more important than tunneling or genrushing for an advantage. At the end of the day if you dont like how a killer or group of survivors play then you can just block them and never have to worry about it again
@@tmoney1487 Holy essay. Hey, a 4 man swf, or a trio or a duo on comms, with Brand new part commodious toolboxes popping 2 gens almost immediately after the game starts without me doing anything, what's the flow in that? you want me to just take it and go stand in the corner? nah, i'll just tunnel. Getting kills is my objective, so i gotta, if survivors genrush, why shouldn't i rush sending someone back to lobby? :p
If I could change the game, I would make it so survivors must have a toolbox to work on the generators. 4 “default” toolboxes can spawn randomly on the map at the beginning of the game. these default ones don’t use up charges. or the survivors can choose to bring their own better toolbox at the expense of not bringing a flashlight or something else
my solution to gen rushing: Generators have 4 stages: Stage 1: the generator is broken and needs repair. it's the same as it currently is, moving on. Stage 2: the generator is repaired (and cannot be kicked by the killer anymore) but it needs fuel. 2 gas tanks appear at random locations on the map, each with 2 cans next to them, 1 for each survivor. Survivors can get a gas can from there and, after a 10 seconds interaction with the tank, fill it up. a full gas can completely fills a generator with fuel, but if the killer hits a survivor with with a gas can, they drop the can and it loses 1/3 of its fuel and will keep losing fuel until it's either empty or picked back up. they can still pick the can back up and put fuel in the generator, but it won't fill it to full and the gen won't start until it's full. used gas cans can be refilled at gas tanks for the same gen or other gens. gas cans do not take an item slot, they're similar to flashbangs in that regards. also a survivor putting the gas can down instead getting hit with it won't drain the can of its fuel, so if you feel like you're about to enter a chase you can put it down and come back for it later. Stage 3: the generator is repaired and is full of fuel. a short 1 second interaction from a survivor will turn it on. Stage 4: the generator is turned on and counts towards the gens done counter. the killer can turn it off after a 5 seconds interaction, reverting it to stage 3. the amount of time needed to repair a gen or something else can be reduced, the idea is to introduce a mechanic that makes survivors leave the gen and come back to it to make it work and can be used to balance genrushing as well.
That soup analogy was really good. A really good soup, like a slow-cooked beef broth with some shallots an’ onions, just a really good nice, hot, delicious soup. Man I love soup.
I never get the "Playing Mean" ideology. IMO, both side should do there best to win every game. In every other game that's PVP it's expected that the other side is going to be playing to win and it's never really a 'Bad' thing. Like in fighting games, you're not going clown on someone for playing a top tier if they're trying to win. I don't get why people think you should 'Play Nice' in a pvp game. Killers shouls tunnel and proxy and survs should gen rush and take hits. If something is 'Too Broken' or 'Too Unfun' then thats the games fault not the players using the tools given to them.
My fix for gen rushing would be that gens become locked at 50% and survivors would need to search chests for a key to unlock it for more progress, that would cost behaviour nothing to implement. All the assets are there and it encourages survivors to move around the map more.
the last bit I've been saying for years. make maps a little bigger, add the additional task that a survivor must get fuel for the gens before they can repair it
Maybe for killers, they gain a blood points bonus for each survivor hooked before a survivor is hooked twice/teaches second stage. This could help deter killers from tunneling until everyone is hooked once. For anti-generating, I think adding more perks that involve chests and totems have been helping inspire survivors to do side objectives. I think things like that help a lot because they’re cute and give the survivors “powers” like killers in a way. The issue with that though is the more you add in, the more you’ll have to edit and patch up later
It wouldnt deter killers in any way, there's simply not enough time in a game to hook everyone once and play nice, by the time you hooked everyone 3 gens are done and nobody is close to death and you have 0 snowball, but if you focus 2 people you have 2 hooks on both survivors and next time you hook them survivors have 2 people less
Maybe make it so that the hook explodes if you try to hook the same survivor twice (just like freddy's fake pallets). For slugging, you could make unbreakable base kit but only activates once 120 seconds or so has passed. For genrushing, there must be some kind of second objective aside of the gens. Maybe this could vary depending of the map (for example, in Guideon's you must complete a Saw trap in order to get a lever that, when placed in a closed section of the map, it unlocks it and then you keep repairing)
I main trapper blight and vecna I don’t tunnel proxy camp the still do is hit some one when they get off hook to get them in mending I don’t really try hard at all and I prefer to plan so chases aren’t a priority for me that’s what trapper taught me patience in my opinion the strongest thing to know in dbd at its core is just a chess match
i love playing as a sneaky ghostface, hooking one person and going for the other, but if im pressured i leave one player downed and go for a single other cause they dont know what i'll do
What if the extra objectives to combat gen rushing would be that the generators take less to fix, but survivors would need to open a chest for mechanical parts to repair the exit lever before opening the exit gate? As for totems (This might be cliche) why not make it so that if a totem is fiddled with, survivors can pick up bone scraps to fight the killer for a few seconds, resulting in an instant down afterwards, like a last resort type of thing.
For survivors: Make it so some to all generators cant be fixed without a specific unique item/part/fuel, and hide that in a random chest. Forces survivors to do a slow down side quests and gives a reason to search chest other than for just items. For killers: Make it so survivors just cant die until a certain number of hook stages is reached between all of them. Something like 6 should be good. Gives killers less reason to tunnel, allows players to stay in the game longer as they literally can't be removed too quickly, but still allows efficient killers to keep doing what their doing and eventually players will start dropping.
Gen rushing and tunneling is a false equivalence. One is the literal objective of escaping and can only happen with no gen pressure. Tunnelling is completely optional and very hard for the survivors to stop.
"Genrushing is OP" Me: A Pig main that regularly gets a 4K before the last generator is completed running a meme build consisting of all end-game perks that never even come into play.
As somebody who has played both Overwatch and dead by daylight, tell me a time when the game and it's players didn't feel like they were at war. You literally can't.
I kinda wanna see a playtest where after repairing a gen you have to go find a can of gas to fuel each gen it would be a neat change of pace from the current loop at least
Make base gen speed slower and have it increase the longer you have been chased rewarding for taking chases, being in them for longer and escaping them
As someone that plays killer a lot, if I don’t camp or tunnel and win, then I “only won bc my killer is broken”. If I don’t tunnel or camp and lose I get bm’d and get called trash etc in endgame chat. As long as you play killer, you are doomed from the start and how you play whether it’s “toxic” or not, something is going to be said.
Even the statement "Tunneling is unfun" varies greatly, people who love to be chased at all times or just players who are experienced can really enjoy being tunnelled since they can a) improve on looping and b) waste the killers time by looping him and winning the game if they're better than the killer
DBD devs would probably NEVER do this because it’s extreme, but the immediate solution is giving highly reduced blood points for these play styles. Obviously it’s not easy to program how to tell in every situation when it’s tunneling or genrushing, but I feel like barely giving any points is the only solution that will have any traction. This is mostly if they don’t want to introduce different modes or allow you to get rewards doing the friend only mode.
A lot of these issues would be solved if BHVR made their data public. It’s been almost a decade of non-transparency into real, quantitative data that outlines trends in game, and their overall downstream effect on the meta. Their product team is abysmal, and makes decisions based on feelings rather than hard analysis.
I could see someone saying that Myers is OP simply from the perspective of the 1v1 as opposed to the 1v4. The Tombstone allows Myers to insta-kill you - it is unlikely he will insta-kill everyone in one go, and it's a significant time investment to get to tier 3 in the first place, but from the perspective of the unlucky survivor who gets got and is now out of the match? They may believe they were unfairly killed. The Tombstone makes Myers play completely unlike other killers and allows him to ignore the normal mechanics for downing and hooking a survivor to kill them. This is objectively powerful, even if the time investment and skill requirements (on both sides) make it very risky/unlikely to win the ENTIRE match. Even from the perspective of a teammate, you can't really do much to save the one who's being targeted. You can't take a hit for them, there's no opportunity to heal them from the ground, they cannot be rescued from the hook, nothing. Even if you get out with the 3-man escape, someone had to die, either because they couldn't outrun the killer or just couldn't get to a locker to hide and prevent the insta-kill, and that sucks.
3:33 after my third match in a row being brought to eyrie against sabo/boil over, it starts feeling A LOT like a map specific issue and less like “being unlucky” lmao. So glad the sac ward is common now, but I’m still getting the occasional swf that just stacks 4 offerings to counter it.
I've said it for years, this game isn't survivor or killer sided, it's asshole sided. Whoever wants to come in with the sole purpose of being as efficient as possible or simply making the other side as miserable is most likely going to come out on top. The amount of tools that killers and survivors have guarantees if someone wants too, they're going to make the overall match a nightmare for the other side, and it doesnt help that behaivors solution most of the time is bandaid fixes on top of bandaid fixes further compounding and engraining these issues into the game, making them much harder to actually address properly.
Nah I don't disagree with you especially when the game sometimes encourages the player to play like a asshole like the killer has 1 hook and has only 2 gens in 3 minutes of the game. Or how survivors just bring a lot of second chance perks just so they could have a chance to win or rat out until hatch
ah, I've been preaching the same under almost every single "Us vs Them" post I could find. It's asshole sided and then the people come and argue with comp or "I only have fun when I win so screw you"...
I agree man, I also think there is a continental difference between playing against solo Que survivors and swf survivors, similarly the difference between playing solo and playing a in a swf drastically affects how manageable average to great killers are
@dillonn3918 example of yesterday: I played SWF. We weren't particulary good, in fact we 4 man died a lot but we had fun mostly. The other people go to bed and I decided to play a little SoloQ before I go too. Blight, Pain Res Pop, Groaning Storehouse. 3 teammates who ran after the killer, I was the only one to ever touch a gen - a gen that got all 4 pain res while being at 20% max each time. Match was over after 7 minutes. I am not mad at the Blight, but dissapointed in my bread for brains teammates. That was one of the matches of all time. SoloQ can be fun, as I got a great group right before that match against a Bubba (we all died regardless but it was a close fun match) - but it can also be the least fun you will ever have in this game. Now the Blight was even nice as he didn't tunnel or anything... my teammates were just that down bad for the flashy saves or whatever they were trying to do.
Um no it's swf with comms sided.
Watching this video as a sociology student makes me happy that DBD is a perfect case study around lowest kinds of tribalism. I'll use it to study for exams in January.
Humie scum sure love their tribes.
Fuck me, you know the game has reached record levels of low if the community could literally be used as a study of a literal way of life we used to have as fucking *cavemen*.
I would love updates to this
Give us updates🙏
you sociology losers need to stop treating people online like bugs and study why your studies are full of lies and bull.
They REALLY need to have “ranked” and “normal” modes. People would get far less tilted if they KNEW they would be playing against a sweaty/meta build pre-match.
deadass i was just thinking this
because we need people that are actually goal oriented
In theory it sounds great, but considering how commonly people who had a bad match take it out on the next group, it just paints a target on your back.
Had a bad killer match in ranked with a SWF head-on stunning you constantly? Why not go into the normal mode with Nurse & force slug everyone in the "casual" mode?
Vice-versa for survivors as well.
@@HalloweenowlNot to mention this would make Killer queues abysmally long
Works well for cod, apex legends, OW ... I'm sure it'll work well for DBD. (No it won't. Sweats won't Iike going against other sweats and will just go back to pubs. So they can sweat against baby huntress)
We KNOW what that would be like. Go play 2v8, go play Chaos Shuffle, go play the events -- the sweaty players just migrate to whichever mode they think will be easier. We see it every single time an event comes out.
And with 2v8 especially, we see what happens when the playerbase is ACTUALLY split between 2 modes. 15-30 minute queues in both lobbies, which will lead to the playerbase dropping because who wants to play a game that takes that long to load into?
We don't have ranked and casual, but we have competitive and casual. If people leave the competitive game IE the normal mode, for the casual one, you're going to have the comp players follow them because they don't want to play with other sweaty players, they want to play with Survivors/Killers they can wreck.
I may have had a bad day, but in the end I remember that it could be worse, I could be playing DBD...
You sir dodged a bullet :D I'm only doing it to chase closure tbh, get all achievements + challenges done, then never play it again. But if people are stupid enough to disregard my advice (2000ish hours here) and never play this game, at least study Otzdarva's and Mr Tatorhead's videos, you'll learn a lot about DBD and the game will become a lot more bearable my friends :)
@TheLogicalBeast I got 1.5k hours into this game by playing duo with a friend/hillbilly(pre-buff), wesker and blight. However playing surv you either stomp the killer or get stomped cuz you get 2 braindead teammates, and playing killer you get stomped by just going against 4 competent survs with good perks. You just can't get a good back and forth in this game.
@@clowno4206yeah when I play survivor I get brain dead teammates and when I play killer I get the worlds best survivors and loopers it’s very frustrating which is why MMR is bad for gaming because the game basically punishes you for getting better at the game
@@Darkart-BLCK I think we can all agree that DBD's core is fun (the chase), but BHVR enjoys removing fun things and replacing it with boring stuff or bandaid fixes with perks.
@ yeah because BHVR is trying to make the game competitive when the game wasn’t meant to be like that since the beginning and that’s what makes it boring and repetitive
Ardetha nailed completely something that i talk about with my friends since 2021 as a person who play more survivor, if i dont "genrush" im completely demolished by killers and if i "genrush" im removing the total fun of the game, this game needs some new surv objectives asap
- Totems : Useless unless killer/surv perk needing an interaction with them
- Chests : Useless unless dedicated build
- Generator : GEN GEN GEN GEN GEN
- Killer power : Gives debuffs if left alone but some you can get away with leaving untouched
- Hooks : have a Sabo build, otherwise don't
Gens litterally having the only useful interactions is partly why "genrushing" is a thing. If you don't GEN you're not coming home.
(Rock and Stone ⛏️)
There’s a whole other objective that has to be done during a match. Opening the gates and actually escaping. There’s perks on both sides that shine during endgame.
Survivors can be having the best match ever but throw it all away because they didn’t account for NOED.
@jay-1800 im talking about adding objectives that really cause some progression in the match these are all side objectives my dude
Yeah I don't get the hatred of gen-rushing, the only way to win (other than hatch) is to complete gens. It's like if survivors got mad at killers for killing... oh wait they do.
DBD players just love complaining.
Yeah. I slow down when we seem to win too much but then it’s like the killer snowballs us immediately when we chill out. Lol it’s a catch 22
"Most people aren't going to write an entire Harry Potter book every time they want to throw their two cents in."
Dude, have you even READ end-game chat?
Dead by Daylight is by far the game I have ever got the most messages sent to me in to the point I actually had to turn my messages off
@@nuclearpuggsurvivors literally leave whole reviews on how fun i was to play against on my steam page 😭😭
The main issue is that the Behaviour's solution to overpowered/unfair tactics is to add perks to counter them
But if a killer never slugs, your anti-slugging perk is basically an empty slot, if survivors don't genrush, your anti-gen rush perks do nothing.
And you can't counter every kind of unfun playstyle with 4 perks, so no matter what there's a chance you'll be stuck against an unfun playstyle you can't deal with
It;s tough, because as much as I'd love to see basekit fixes like basekit (but weaker than the perk version of) Unbreakable, Corrupt Intervention, Decisive Strike, I know about their caveats too. Basekit UB, we saw how it can be abused in that PTB so maybe a vote to give up if left long enough on the ground instead? Corrupt would be fine on weaker killers, but oppressive on Nurse/Blight etc. Decisive makes sense if tunnelling at 5 gens, but at 3-1 gens left and you need some pressure, feels bad being hit by that perk. Basekit fixes I feel CAN work, but BHVR have to proceed *very* carefully when doing so, otherwise they could do more harm than good imho
Well the issue is that they created perks to solve inherent game design issues instead of just completely reworking the game to remove those issues. a good example is face camping. realistically speaking, that just shouldn't happen, because good designers would make sure it can't happen at all. but BHVR instead of solving the core issue, creates perks as a band aid fix.
instead of just making SWF friends impossible. or just make player communication a real factor when designing the game, they instead create perks and what not as a band aid solution
If the game was run by competent devs we'd not have even half the problems we do and have consistently had since the game first came out
@@grimsdol4665literally the easiest way to bridge swf and solo queue is to add some sort of quick chat but it’s been this long and they still haven’t thought of something so simple 😭
Fuck it, just play non meta perks and have a good game sense of what survivors do.
I met a guy in the egc who was complaining about how broken trappper was 💀💀
Someone was hooked in basement 😅🥲 if that is their only encounter ever with trapper, I would share the same feeling 🫤
😆 hell yeah
Once (luckily, only once) I was told by some weirdo, that Artist is too OP with sniping and I should learn to play fun killers instead (bro literally stood swarmed on one place, I didn't even need to send more than 1 crow after him 💀). Like, my mistake, next time I just place my crows only on loops instead like a lobotomy patient. XD
Trapper is one of the killer I hate the most, but saying that he is broken is a big stretch xD
3 different people in the steam comments to the new update said that 4.6m/s killers needed to be nerfed to 4.4m/s like what 💀🙏
When i play killer I usually play how I wish to be treated as survivor, I try not to camp or tunnel unless I'd throw by doing so.
I did this yesterday, punishing only the selfish teammates (who refused to save) and letting the others go. The surviving teammates were maaaaaaaaaad about it 💀
Most of the times I take a spectrum approach, the better the killer the more hook stages I give the survs before I kill them, the lower the strength the harder I will try to win. And with this I apply the rule of how much is my ass getting kicked during the match, if I get 2/3 downs before 2 gens(these are indicatives numbers)I will try to go for the 8 hook stages before killing anyone (with the exception of map offerings and tbagging) if I have 1 hook stages and 3 gens are done I will try to tunnel out the person I have.
I just go with the flow. If i'm winning hard, i try less. If they're putting up a hard fight, i try more, using even tunneling and well timed camping if i have to. All's fair if both sides give it their A game.
I still let the last person semi often, if they act a lil cute.
I am usually reacting to the survivors. If the survivors are getting sweaty, I can sweat a little myself. If the survivors want to be friendly, always be nice in return.
I’m the inverse. I main killer but don’t get mad when I get camped and tunneled as survivor
I'll break it down for ya quick Ardetha. I started playing this game a very long long time ago. And at the time I was a killer main. Now not so much. But when I started playing. Survs could make life for a killer absolutely miserable. And in the red ranks/Rank 1 people absolutely did just for shiz and giggles. And after years of that. I became mean. A "they did unto me so I will do unto others" type thing. Even if I felt like being chill for a game. I remembered all the years of infinites and t bagging/hyper flashie clicks and old dead hards and I get extra mean. I'm not the only killer that was like this. The longer us killers stayed mean. The more survivors started to get meaner. Thus began a nasty cycle. And this game is basically tribalism simulator already. But this cycle. Made us all really hate each other. The devs switching of balance too didn't help this. So now here we all are. Sitting in a pit of toxicity.
Mhm. This right here is the truth. I went through the exact same thing, and even though it's gotten so much better over the years, that resentment in me just festered to the point where at some point I found myself fully engaged in Us vs Them (I kind of hate the people who denounce the Us vs Them mentality, though. Not because they're inherently wrong, but because the way they do it just turned them into a third tribe arguing with everyone else and thinking they're somehow not covered in the same shit)
And because so many other people have gone through the same thing, that resentment becomes doctrine, to the point where you can't even try to be rational because one of the sides will attack you for it.
And people think voice chat is what the game needs. Psh.
I agree with all your points. Though, voice chat would be nice.
Don't get me wrong, i, personally, would have it disabled by default. I know better as a woman playing pvp games 😅
But if it helps some solo queuers coordinate, and maybe removes communication as this issue that the devs just cannot balance around, the i say go for it, add voice chat
@magical571 I honestly like voice chat in games. It let's me be misandrist. But I know if there was voice chat I'd be banned in 2 days lmao. But it's funny bc I find that women are way better at dbd than men. Whenever I get ran decently I find its a female streamer and the other way around its that the men are often noobs or just bad.
@@yeetmcskeet9533 I’d just like to point out that if I, as a man, said that ‘men are way better at dbd than women’ or that ‘women are often noobs or just bad’, I would be instantly cancelled. But it’s okay when the roles are reversed. Gender equality yo
Survivors abusing the old DBD was what I believe started this war. While now a days DBD is debated if it’s a party game or a competitive game, back in 2016 it was undoubtedly a party game as it was fun to run out an exit gate and watch your friend step in a bear trap and laugh at their misfortune. Or have a killer Role play as Myers and genuinely be scary.
Unfortunately today Players go Into matches just solely to ruin other players days.
Another layer of the problem is that the playerbase's perception of these unfun playstyles differ between each other. For example, tunneling. In my book, there's hard-tunneling which is to purposedly only chase one single person ever, there's normal tunneling which is to still try to get hooks elsewhere but always choose to go for the person with the highest hook count (notably when a Killer comes back to an unhook and chases the unhooked person instead of the unhooker), and there's accidental tunneling where you just happen to always find the same person without even trying. But for many people, what is accidental tunneling in my book is actually hard-tunneling in their books.
Heck, I've seen people call someone out for tunneling despite that killer actively trying to 2-hook everyone. When I saw that, I pretty much understood that the community has grown tired of these unfun playstyles, and the line they tolerate has greatly dropped.
I had 8 hooks total with 4 survivors still alive, so 2 on everyone. Still got told I was tunneling in the end game chat, even though I never once hooked the same person twice in a row and spread them out like that...
I personally try to articulate all my arguments. Otherwise you won't save time because people will just argue with you about points you were never making. People will do this regardless but articulating makes it a lot easier to deal with.
Keyword personally. Unfortunately a lot of people do not
Yep. I don´t care whether someone is too lazy to read an articulated argument. If you cannot take few seconds to read, then Im not interested in your opinion in the first place. So, feel free to ignore that argument and not contribute at all, good riddance. And if you do, your opinion weights more, and deserves more respect (unless it is the "gg ez, your wrong, l2p bot, skill issue dog" kind of response) in well-mannered discussion.
@@eliasar5051 I Couldnt agree more
I started playing DBD around March 2023 and very quickly it became apparent to me that, for the most part, if one side is winning, the other side is having a miserable time. It sucks. As someone who very regularly plays survivor, I very often find myself trying to meme with both killers and other survivors just for the simple fact that it takes the pressure off of both sides.
Here’s the thing, no one that saw DBD at the game store when it came out was like “oh I hope this is a fair game that I can enjoy with my friends!” Everyone saw trapper looking like a knock off jason and went “what’s this?” Some people went “it’s like a playable version of a slasher flick, you can be the killer or the survivor.” No one is expecting to get out of a slasher flick alive. The game is asymmetric by design and that’s why gen rushing is valid. At the start of the match u minimize your time spent playing by doing what you need to do to get out. As the game goes on it should become more killer sided. All DBD is now is psychological warfare.
A big part of the issue with tome challenges is that they VERY frequently require survivors to throw their matches to get them done in a timely manner, while killers tome challenges are usually pretty fluidly designed into their gameplay. The compouding issue with that is that survivor bp economy is pitiful most of the time, especially with tunneling. And a guaranteed 15-50k from a tome challenge is automatically better than an optional 13-25k on average. Improving the survivor bp economy and making side objectives not feel like a waste of time would go a long way towards quality of life. Dismantling tunneling and gen rushing at their cores instead of repeated bandaid solutions and giving both sides time to finish their objecive would also be potentially beneficial. However it may come at the cost of gameplay intensity and loss of atmosphere. Fixing the situation is a very delicate subject, especially with such a sensitive community.
except you forget that killers NEED to spent way more points to make every killer viable, whereas after the first prestige there's not any reason to spend bp on a survivor unless you really like how they look and want to lvl up all their perks.
@fredrickmansav6852 survivors NEED to spend bp on their items (power) and addons, if they don't they have to give up time during the game to do things that don't progress the game, just because you can't open your mind to the survivor experience doesn't mean it doesn't suffer from many or most of the same struggles. Killer is just as playable as survivor with or without extra help from addons. Do not conflate your experience as the universal. Until you can consider both sides of the dbd player base on an objective level I see no point in continuing this conversation with you.
@@fredrickmansav6852most good killers aren’t really addon reliant. It helps yeah but you don’t need them
Killers have a 60% win rate. How can that NOT be considered OP?
What is considered a win though? Killing everyone? Or at least one player?
Here's my solution to make gens less boring and survivor gameplay more active out of chases: Every 25% progress, the gen needs a replacement part that is located on a random chest around the map. Gens regress slower the more replacement parts they have.
Gens are faster to compensate and chest perks become somewhat useful.
And survivors don't need to make someone ragequit to have any fun.
I've had a similar idea. Gens require 4 pistons. Each piston allows a gen to reach 25/50/75/100%. They can be installed at any time but a gen with 0 pistons can only reach 24%, a gen with 3 can only reach 99%.
Instead of faster gens the catch is each piston locks in 5%, so while a could have 4 pistons and 0 repair progress, the gen can't regress below 20%. A killer couldn't even kick the gen at that point until its past 20%.
Edit:Forgot to mention pistons wouldn't take up an item slot a but a survivor can only carry one at a time.
I have also had a very similar idea to this. The only thing I really did differently was that the changes don't apply tk 3 gens. Since the 3 gen is easier to camps making it harder for that to be repaired might honestly making camping that area really miserable for the survivors.
But maybe that would be unnecessary.
That would spice survivor gameplay a bit, since it hasn't changed at all since launch.
And here's a couple of changes to items to help with this idea:
Brand New Part: now counts as four parts for the purpose of generator repair, meaning someone can immediately jump on a gen and dump a BNP into it, making the process of fixing the gen faster.
Manufactured Part: counts as three parts for the purpose of generator repair, green tier BNP.
Scavenged part: counts as two parts for the purpose of generator repair, yellow tier BNP.
Rusty part: counts as one part for the purpose of generator repair, brown tier BNP.
For all intents and purposes, the Scavenged part can be removed and just lower the amount of parts provided by the top two by one, so no part that can be brought in gives the ability to fully repair a generator.
Maybe add components that lock in a amount of generator progress, for instance, reinforced piston: prevents generator progress from falling below 20% but requires 20% completion prior to installation (sturdy piston: 15% cracked piston: 10% stripped piston: 5%) similar to what another commentor added.
Honestly, generators really need some spicing up regardless of how they choose to do so.
Simply make killers win condition 8 hooks
I feel like I'm watching a nature documentary every time I watch an Ardetha video
My opinion: "I like slugging because many of the matches I encountered at higher mmr usually had survivors bringing tools that made hooking feel like a waste of time, so I would rather apply pressure through slugging. Meanwhile at lower mmr, slugging is very unnecessary and just overkill as the players there are playing with less anti-hooking perks that don't make hooking feel unrewarding and those at lower mmr tend to be more novice in their gameplay."
What someone might take away from it: "I like slugging"
This right here. I’m tired of being told off for slugging at higher MMR when ik there’s a 4 sabo flashbang breakout squad with stuff like power struggle or flip flop or boil over. I’m leaving them on the ground 100% of the time and they’d better pray someone brought UB or exponential. Otherwise you get sent to eyrie and get zero hooks.
it also takes longer to recover from a down than from a hook. it takes 2 seconds to unook. it takes time to heal a teammate.
7:25 chill Meg I already have notifications on for the channel too 😰
Its the megtity
The issue with dbd is either side can do miserable things to the other, and you have no clue its going to happen before you load in
unironically, when there wernt dc penaltys the game was less toxic, if someone is playing unfun you can just leave and go into a different match, but nowadays you're forced to play out the match even if the game is already lost which leads to a lot of building frustrations, no one wants to get send to badham against a 4man swf as freddy likewise no one wants to deal with a turbo 3 gen slugging hag but if you don't want a ban you'd better play it out
the proper fix is to remove these outliers but im actually in favour of lessening the dc penalty until anything is done about it
Just give 2 DCs a day for free then immediately just go up to a 30min ban after the 3rd, and consequently remove all DC penalties in the lobby after the first person dies or DCs.
If four survivors dc, the killer should get a free dc. If 3 survivors dc, the remaining survivor and killer should get a free dc. The freebie DCs should not take away the BP they earned up until that point, nor should it take away their items/add-ons. Remove endurance that rewards bad plays (like picking up someone off the ground in front of killers with WGLF, formerly the FTP + BU combo). Make boons have tokens and take out shattered hope. Do not allow flashbangs to blind killers despite eating the wall, BGP makes these saves a guarantee and good killers will refuse to pick up when they know you have it (which encourages slugging). Game design devs should play a killer and survivor game on live public servers with every stream BHVR hosts to prove their goodwill and understanding towards the community. But none of these things will ever happen, there will always be some new bs the devs don’t think is a problem whilst it gets exploited by swfs that want killers to dc or killers that want survivors to dc.
Another problem is the games most toxic playstyles are often the most effective, and so people tend to go from "ill use this when I need to" to "why don't I just use this every game to always win?" to which they then no longer know how to play the game without using said toxic playstyle, which they then employ against players who are nowhere near skilled enough to counter it, driving them out of the game, only leaving the sweats who then respond with their own hyper toxic strategy. Basically, someone going from using a strategy only as needed, to lazily becoming a bully, looping right around to becoming the bullied themselves because they bullied out everyone who wasn't being a bully.
Also doesn't help that the matchmaker is so stupidly designed you go from 1 match against a killer/survivors with 15k hours, followed by a killer/survivors with less than 30 hours total, so one match you may use every toxic strategy in your playbook and still not stand a chance, followed by an opponent whom you could beat with the monitor turned off yet, you still employ toxic strategies because you assume your opponent will outskill you as badly as the last one did, only to find out you bullied the crap out of literal baby players.
The game just sucks to play, for everyone, but hey, at least that summer skin for Sable is really cute. May as well hate every second of my life for another 50 matches.
Before I stopped playing due to a combination of factors, I would almost exclusively play demo with Coulrophobia, Unnerving Presence, Surge, and Distressing. Only one of those can be considered meta in any way. I would still consistently stomp people without camping nor tunneling. I feel like more people should limit themselves to bad/off-meta perks to learn how to be actually good instead of relying on crutches
@@Draco-9158 I could not agree more. I was playing since the game came out, and got good with Nurse which, obviously shes OP but I didn't have a lot of other options back then. Playing her still taught me important lessons about how to properly play the killer role though, things like proper positioning to cut off effective escape routes when ambushing gens, how to properly mindgame in loops, how to predict where survivors would go, how to herd them to weak chasepoints ect, and these skills transferred over to every killer I played after as they released ones I was interested in, and winning has rarely been an issue to me. It got boring having a 90% stomp rate and, I kinda quit.
Nowadays, killers don't practice any of those things. They practice camping and tunneling, and that's literally it. They are terrible at chases, they are terrible at ambushes, they are terrible at everything, because tunneling and camping has completely removed their need to improve at the game in the ways that originally were mandatory if you wanted to be competitive, and thus, their matches revolve entirely on that first catch and if they don't get it fast enough for camping and tunneling to work, they DC, go to the forums, and cry. Plus, that camping and tunneling by default has made the game so unfun for the other side that most of the players who weren't good enough to prevent it, leave, resulting in the only remaining players being fairly decent at countering this strategy which again, leads to killers not knowing what else to do and demanding constant nerfs to anti-tunnel perks.
Its sad. Its like the players who have never played Elden Ring before looking up a video on what weapon blasts through bosses the easiest and not learning how to play the game without using that 1 weapons overpowered special attack. I just don't get what mindset someone has to have to only be willing to learn the easiest, most boring and toxic strategy to win, and feeling like its the games fault every time they don't win with it when they are intentionally avoiding learning the 90% of the gameplay that is supposed to be what makes them good at the game.
A really out-there game design rework to address current issues. This would be a massive overhaul and would need a lot of care and attention to make sure it succeeds (which means it'll never come close to fruition):
1) There are no hook stages. Taking a page from the board game (if I recall correctly), there is a single Sacrifice Progression bar. Hooking Survivors advances that bar. Spreading the misery by hooking different Survivors & hooking them non-consecutively advances the bar more than by repeatedly tunneling the same survivor off-hook. Once the bar is full, the Survivor becomes instantly sacrificed once they become hooked again. Regular sacrifice rules still apply (Final Mori, if all remaining survivors are hooked they are instantly sacrificed, going to next hook stage grants some progress to the Killer, etc).
2) In addition to generators (which may be adjusted to compensate for this), Survivors must appeal to the Entity and make an offering at a Ritual Site (not sure if this would spawn as a prop or as an actual location, but maybe it spawns opposite of Basement, so it spawns either in the main building or in Killer Shack). To do so, they must enter the Basement to retrieve an Offering (like a skull or something idk) and return it to a Ritual Site. This Offering can behave similarly to a white glyph, where rushing, falling, or being hit by a Killer's attack destroys the offering, so Survivors must be quick and stealthy to place the offering at the Ritual Site (this also provides a better use for perks like Urban Evasion, Lightweight, and even Territorial Imperative). The Offering idea can be implemented in one of two ways. It can either be a mandatory rule, or it can be a means to accelerate gen progress, such as each Offering made taking 4 charges off each generator (once per Survivor).
Really love these ideas for adding more to the game.
Main issue I see with the second one though, is what stops killers from camping the ritual site? Or camping the basement for that matter, since they know survivors have to go there first, and its already a prime spot to camp victims in the game.
@@feathero3 That's partially why I'm thinking it would be better off as an optional thing, with the bit about shaving off charges from gens. It would certainly add some flavor to the survivor gameplay and actually be a true secondary objective. If the Killer chose to camp the sites in those instances, they would lose pressure on regular gen repairs. The only other real solution would involve expanding the maps to all have multiple (3+) Ritual Site tiles and Survivors only need to transport the offerings between two Sites, such that the Killer can't truly camp them.
these ideas r fire
honestly green glyphs should be the standard for how the rest work (along with their unique gimmick), where the glyphs require the game to progress in order to spawn and their location is revealed after the gens are completed
1:22 to be fair i’d also be mad if i went to a random soup bar and i kept getting cream of mushroom or sumn and everyone else is getting tomato or chicken noodle soup
I may be wrong because I know they've been adding in new glyphs constantly, but I believe only the purple glyph moves around and is specifically only a killer challenge. HOWEVER glyphs on a whole suck and cause people to throw matches just to find them.
I'm grinding all the glyphs and second that. Only the Killer's Purple Glyph will move.
If BHVR programmed an Aura Reveal for Glyphs at the start of a Trial for ≥5 seconds it would still be a challenge while also being possible to progress every match.
@@YillanTheVillain I wish they all acted like the Purple Glyph, where after hooking a survivor they're revealed for a bit. Could make it for survivors so after completing a generator they're revealed for a bit.
Or at the very least, could be like the Green Glyphs, and show them selves at the end game collapse.
@@feathero3 Considering how much of a task it can be to get a gen done against a sweaty Killer, I think unhooks should reveal glyphs.
Maybe also being unhooked would show the glyphs too. This way you can still do the challenge even if you're getting STOMPED, and if you're VS. a baby Killer you'll find the Glyph easily by wandering. No matter what finding the Glyph would be a win-win.
I think he doesnt mean move around in the way of the purple glyph but rather that after each gen is done its spawn is somewhere else. Glyphs replace totem spots that are unused in the trial, but there is multiple of them so the glyph can be on diffrent locations in 1 trial. You just dont see it moving because you have not found it yet.
@@liandre9035 Aren't those green glyphs?
6:58
I got so invested watching that chase gameplay, when the naughty bear got flashbanged after all that work i felt so sad for him 😢
for real. i looked at the hook vs gen stages after that and was so damn sad. was that necessary, steve..
I LOVE YOU for using the Ridge Racer 4 music as background
An interesting video, but afaik the 'glyphs' DON'T move around the map, except for the Killer-sided PURPLE one....which leaves a purple blood trail that makes it trackable. Red/yellow/blue/pink glyphs stay static (although yellow & pink ones disappear and relocate to a new static spot if not completed successfully), orange ones appear at the start right next to the Killer, white ones appear in the basement after you get the static first part (which is visible to the player, but does require you not to get hit heading to the basement or else the challenge restarts), and green ones appear in static spots when survivors are hooked/gens completed as the game progresses.
This was my only problem with this video, there are many different kinds of glyphs, only one or two of them move around, and some of them reveal themselves at certain points, like green glyphs are revealed when someone is hooked (I think) and when the gates are powered
Hes probably talking about how blue/red glyphs are NOT in the same place but Static, they spawn in a random place each match, so you need to scout the whole map trying to find one, and if you don't, good luck scounting another map until you find it
Killer main only knows killer glyphs lol
ace visconti
yesssss
dead by daylight
ass vistomnti
ate viscunty
ace visconti
This is why i am waiting with faded breath for killer bots being in custom matches. That way theres a singleplayer mode i can play by myself.
My solution to Tunneling. Instead of giving endurance, temporarily remove collision and if the killer is near give a haste effect similar to when you get hit. Also helps fix the issue of survivors aggressively unhooking right infront of the killer and using the unhooked to body block.
To fix gen rushing, add pistons for gens. Each piston allows a gen to be repaired by 25%/50%/75"/100% and prevents a gen from regressing by 5/10/15/20%. If a gen has 0 pistons it can only be repaired up to 24%, if it has 3 it can only go to 99%. All 4 pistons can be installed before a gen has even been slighly repaired. You could install all 4 pistons while the gen is at 0%.
Survivors could get them from boxes scattered about. Have it take a coupke seconds to get from a box and a couple seconds to install. Once installed they can't be removed, pistons don't take up an item slot, are destroyed if a survivor is hooked/killed, can only be carried one at a time. Boxes do not run out and there should be enough so the killer can't just camp them. The goal being to have the survivors spead more time moving around which slows the game down without just increasing gen times. It gives more chances for killer/survivor interaction. It also provides some protection against 3 genning, and gives a layer of strategy. Do you install all pistons in every gen, all 4 before repairing, or do you only go for the ones you're repairing? Should 2 survivors start repairing gens while 1 distracts killer and the last survivor focuses on installing pistons?
For slugging I'd maybe consider a special meter. If 2 or more survivors are down, survivors gain a second recovery bar. Once they've recovered to the point another survivor has to pick them up, a second meter appears, when a player fills that bar up they can pick themselves up off the ground. Disable this ability if all gens are done. This way perks like soul guard, no mither, plot twist, etc still get value. I don't know if the second bar should freeze if the number of downed survivors changes to 1. Don't want a situation where survivors are rewarded for dog piling in spot where the killer can't hook.
Killer main with only 300 hours here. I expect survivors to "genrush," I didn't even realize this was a controversial aspect of the game. I don't tunnel, but I will if survivors are being click/annoying/tea bagging.
I agree with you. I’m not sure what else survivors are supposed to spend their time doing if not gens. Yeah obviously rescues when someone’s hooked and healing each other (maybe opening a chest if they used up their item) but not everyone needs to run to the hooked survivor so obviously the rest will keep doing gens if not being chased or healing someone. I don’t think tunneling is that wrong either, hook camping to rehook them immediately yes but just prioritizing a previously hooked player over a non-hooked one seems like the right thing to do.
@ 100%. The goal of each side is to win. That’s the point of the game. Tunneling helps killers win, genrushing helps survivors win. The nature of an asymmetrical game like this necessarily gives the killer more power over each individual survivor, but the survivors as a team are more likely to “win” than a killer if they communicate and understand game mechanics.
Survivors honestly just seem like they want it all, so to speak. They want to get all the gens, rescue everyone, and escape more often than not, which is just not possible by the nature of DBD.
0:17 sequal?
U gotta be dumb
He’s talking about over watch 2
Why? Pallets! There's too many pallets!
on that last point you could keep gens as is, but you are also required to find a key (or similar tool) to open the exit doors which can only be found in chests
Unironically DBD could use a prematch all chat system, like rainbow 6(source: 2k hoursish in each game). That game is a toxic cesspool but people still agree to talk before the match and decide map bans, banning the maps that the lobby find the least fun. I'd love to be able to say to survivors "Hey, I wont tunnel if you guys dont genrush" or "hey bring your sweaty shit, testing out a strong build" would be a huge help.
I mean we have it for pc players.
But even then I’m not sure how much strategy is actually being discussed in them 🤣
@@jay-1800 none is being discussed, the few conversations I have had/seen is "I hope I get stepped on by a Huntress" or "Wanna be my second braincell and I will be your first?" not my words XD
@@jay-1800 it's only for survivors. killer cannot commune through it which sucks in my opinion. imo for console players they need to add like a phrase system so they can communicate back, which is the biggest barrier (i know at least switch players can't see shit)
i do think if killers and survs can commune there would be actual valuable pregame chat
@@thatoneVoidDemon I mean there’s no reason for killers and survivors to be talking in pre game. In customs you can but random lobbies would be pretty toxic and encourage toxic gameplay. As a PC player with the pre game chat there’s basically never any strategy discussed ahead of time. At most you’ll get someone wanting to stack bp offerings or just people joking around or a glhf.
If anything I’d rather see them implement at the very least proximity chat for survivors in game. There’s so many situations or even builds that are nearly impossible to play against without some coordination.
A ranked playlist really would solve, or at least heavily reduce these issues. It mainly comes down to how one has fun, do they enjoy goofing around and playing the game for fun? Or do they enjoy playing the game to win? Inherently, neither of those are wrong, because anyone is allowed to play as they wish. Players that play for fun may be miserable playing against people playing to win, but at the same time, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with playing to win. At the very least, a ranked playlist would consist mostly of competitive players, making unranked more casual and fun for those who aren’t strictly playing to win.
This game would REALLY benefit from a Casual Mode. Just a place where you can’t gain or lose MMR but still do your missions
And re-introduce a proper ranking system again instead of MMR in the non-casual mode.
That is already available via not caring about MMR and just having fun instead.
I had a game where the killer was chasing a teammate, so me and another teammate moved towards a gen. The teammate I was with was injured and walked past the gen and straight into a locker. I figured since the killer was in chase near us, but not next to us, we should heal at the very least, so I started pointing at the locker to call out the injured teammate. The second they came out, they were grabbed by the Ghostface and hooked straight away. It was so funny, but I felt really bad. The teammate dc before she even got hooked as well lol.
6:01 Tunneling is a skill issue on part of the survivors. It's a non issue. Just like camping was because there's an opportunity cost associated with both. In fact the game is worse since they changed hook camp. Killers aren't your friend & beating someone that uses these tactics was always super satisfying, getting a 4man out on a facecamper was absolutely priceless & sometimes having a death spiral turn into an every man for themselves situation was also interesting, there were more dynamic ways a match could unfold. Someone having trouble regulating negative emotion isn't a valid reason to change game mechanics, Dark Souls taught us that.
hell yeah guts
Dead hard being nerfed was a skill issue that got rewarded
@@SuzukaLova Eruption being nerfed was a skill issue that got rewarded.
@@marcusbourchier2245 as long as we agree
@@SuzukaLova Sure thing. I mean, you just had to wait it out. Ez counterplay.
I once saw someone say behaviour loves killers so they are overpowered when i asked for proof they said behaviour keeps nerfing survivor perks.... as if killer's didn't also get perk nerfs on top of power nerfs.
Killers have more powerful perks, several powers (some killers have up to 4 different abilities), can go through the map much quicker than survs, are faster, and the servers are on their side meaning hits get validated based on THEIR screen which is straight unfair.
Counter measures are also killer sided. For example, the camping unhook bar is disabled once the gates are powered to guarantee the killer his kill even if he camps.
@hiendral9533 survivors also have super powerful perks. killer perks also got massive nerfs to the point of not being run anymore? Skull merchant has gotten to the point where she's not useful in most matches unless you get lucky with a group of survivors who don't know how to counter her. The reality is dbd is a game of chess. Skill is mostly "how can i counter something". If you ask me how the game was sided I'd say
It's usually 4 man swfs
3 man swfs
Killer
2 man swfs
Soloq.
I play a lot of everything so i see a good portion of the differences. At the end of the day tho the side that wins is just the side better at doing mind games. Like you can run extremely powerful perks and still lose against a competent opponent. Or even lose against a newer player if you get cocky. Its essentially chess plain and simple. Having a crap ton of powerful perks won't help you against a team that can play against them.
@@404Khakis_not_found Killers have a billion aura reading perks and the only surv counter was nerfed to the ground. Taurie's perk was nerfed as well when it was perfectly fine because killer mains cried about it countering tunneling too hard. And it's always like that.
@@hiendral9533 aura isn't always strong though. If a killer can't hit a survivor aura does nothing. Also did you not watch the video? Everything you're saying is subjective. Perks are only as good as the people who use them. Some perks are stronger than others but if you don't know how to use them they do nothing.
Not sure tunnelling and gen rushing are comparable. If the killer decides not to tunnel, they are still doing their main objective: Killing survivors.
If a survivor is not doing gens, they are basically idling. You can't expect anyone to go "oh, two gens, no hooks, let me stand in the corner for a minute."
It's an issue with the game. There are no valid things to do for survivors, except gens and unhooking/healing. But if no one is being hooked, there's only gens.
I don't know if there can be a solution to this, tbh. The gameplay for both sides is too different.
It doesn't really matter if they're comparable from the player "idling" as you put it. It's comparable in the sense of "doing the objective efficiently makes the other side miserable and makes the gameplay for both unenjoyable outside of winning more" which is the most important part(s).
Survivors can do chest and totems, it's just not worth the loss. The killer can go after fresh survivors, it's just not worth the loss. Imo that makes them comparable enough from that angle as well. It might not be "idling" exactly but it's definitely "wasting time" for both sides and shooting yourself in the foot for no objective reason.
@shadowofsecracy I'm sorry I can't agree. One is "doing the objective" (hooking any survivor), one is "not doing the objective to stall time for the other side" (doing useless chests). I play solo queue. If I'm not actively doing gens or unhooking, I'm sabotaging my team. And how often have I seen a game turn around with two gens left. I never know how the game will turn around because of devour hope or a 3 gen situation no one was aware of.
Gen rushing gives you a somewhat higher chance of winning.
Tunnelling out one survivor on the other hand feels like a 99% win for the killer.
So, doesn't seem comparable imo.
"Shoulder the burden", "Off the Record" and basekit "borrowed time" have not been added for nothing. It's because an early 3v1 basically ends a match. It's problematic.
@@MBeck-sj1bp Its similar for the killer. You never know if your gonna get a gen 3 pop at 2 mins or not until its too late. This is probably going to come off mean but if you can't agree, that's exactly the type of mindset holding this problem in place and holding the community back.
Whether it totems, chest, or spreading the hooks the end result is the same, doing the objective less efficiently leading to a loss that could otherwise be prevented at worse and a much harder game at best.
Your last argument shows to me some survivor bias or lack in knowledge imo, both massively increase you chances of winning, it's not "slightly" for one and "99%" for the other. Both skyrocket your chances, especially against players who don't use the other tactic.
@@shadowofsecracy that's why I said "feels like 99%". Because I don't have the numbers. But tunnel one out, chances are pretty high another player will d/c or go afk. So, in my experience this is a bigger problem.
It's not like I'm never doing anything else. When I used my medkit and see a chest, I'll probably open it if we are in an okay position. If there is a hex, I will always look for it. But again, I think the difference with both strategies is big.
@@MBeck-sj1bp Players deciding to DC or go AFK is a player problem not a tunnel or genrush problem. They do that even in games where those tactics don't happen and there's not much you can do from a balancing point to change that. Those players need to grow up and the community needs to stop making excuses for them just because one side decided to play efficiently or some other petty matter. Thus encouraging their behavior.
Both problems matter, both sides matter. Neither side is "more important" to fix. The main thing you've been pointing out is that spreading hooks will eventually have some value and doing totems won't. Sure that's true in most cases. Doing chest will still give you an item that can help, so I can't really say that won't have value in the same way, but it's also not worth the loss in most cases.
While what you're saying is true, it's also not really the main problem and fixing it won't do anything. If you make doing totems do something like spreading hooks where eventually it does something, but not anywhere near as much as genrushing (tunneling) would, then you'll still have the same problem. It's not worth it.
Because from an "efficiency" and "trying to win" standpoint nothing has changed. Sure it might feel slightly less bad than before for the survivor, but that doesn't really do anything substantial. Survivors will still genrush.
The strategies are easily comparable in a "waste as little time as possible, I'm trying to win" standpoint, which is what really matters in the conversation and for fixing the problem. Because "wasting time" to make the experience not miserable for the other side just isn't worth it for your own. Whether that's spreading hooks or doing totems.
For your final idea, they could make chests also drop an item such as the gas tank you mentioned that must be delivered to a gen before it is able to be repaired. Or maybe the item is needed to unlock more than 50% of it, so that a team mate can work on it till 50% while you search for a chest. Maybe they could make something like rummage base kit so that once you get the gen item out of a chest you can then search the chest again for "useful" items which would essentially be a way to keep the current functionality of chests.
People who write full sentences fully explaining their thought get nerd emojis or "damn im not reading all of that" comments
I actually just hate the box detection in this game, it's so easy to get stuck on corners, objects, walls, etc. whether you play survivor or killer. I also hate how inconsistent the action detection is, you hit a survivor dead on and the game decides you missed, or you go to drop a pallet and the game decides you're not close enough even though you're literally touching it. The online connectivity issues don't help either, even if everyone playing has a solid connection, the issues still persist.
As for Tunneling and Gen Rushing, I think instead of 5 generators, have 1 generator per door, but instead of sitting there holding a button to fill the meter while doing skill checks, have the survivors first gather a set number of parts for which ever generator they plan to use to escape. Once the parts are put in place, then have the survivors build the meter up to activate the generator in order to open the door to escape. The parts are scattered and have to be carried by the survivors to the generator, if the killer hits them, they drop that part and will have to choose to either run for safety or risk going back for the part. This would potentially shake things up enough to where teamwork feels more impactful and the killer wouldn't have to constantly guard generators, but instead would now have to constantly be on the look out for any of the survivors to try and slow them down as much as possible or kill them before they complete one generators to escape.
That's what happens when your game has no Game Balancing DPT
And a bunch of DEI hires who have no talent
@@Notj397 yeah its the evil pee oh sees who are the problem right
@@Notj397just say what you mean man, you already have a person calling you racist, while i am seeing that you are saying dei means people that aren't the best person for the job because of racist qoutas.
If those pee oh sees have no fucking talent and got in based on meeting a racist quota, yeah. They are absolutely part of the problem.
Id say more accurately, when your Game Balance DPT plays the game like Mathaeu Cote against those 4 professional survivor streamers.
You can't expect people who can't play their own game above the second-to-bottom skill bracket to properly balance for the top of the skillbase. They are so bad at games they are the type of players who are having to look down at their own hands to put their fingers back on WASD every time they hit spacebar, and they are the people who are trying to balance the game for professionals who have 20k hours+ in it, like its just never gonna happen.
Excellent vidéo, excellent take on the situation.
It's a vicious circle and it will never end people have to learn sometimes you just get outplayed you get outsmarted . The problem is people feel everything has to be how they want it and if it doesn't they have to cry or get toxic about it
Gen rushing solution: "Altars". After completing 3 generators. The survivors must compete 3 Altars that require items now available AFTER the 3 generators are finished. Generators are still interactive until 5 gens are completed. They only contribute to gen specific perks/abilities (killer/survivor). Complete the Altars and the exit gates will be unblocked.
Tunnel Solution: Purgatory mode. Survivors are now spirits. They can leave the match (and be replaced by a bot) or complete side objectives that give them more points as well as helps out their fellow survivors complete objectives.
If all survivors down: "Entity's claim". All survivors have 3 seconds to use any perk/ability that allows them to get up from the dying state. If they do not get up, their bodies are claimed by the entity and are turned to spirits.
End game addition: "Merge realms". Spirit realm has merged with the map. All vaults are broken and some walls are removed. Spirits can pass through each other and survivors. Spirits are broken and are now visible to all Survivors and the killer. Spirits can pass through the exit gate and hatch. Spirits cannot open the exit gate. If a spirit is hit by the killer, the spirit is destroyed and claimed by the entity. If all survivors become spirits, the endgame collapse begins and various hatches will spawn for a spirit to escape. One hatch per spirit.
Tunneling to me, is the killer focusing 1 survivor WITH immediately chasing them right after they are unhooked. Basically denying them really playing at all. Some killers you can loop and at least get some chase gameplay but like you stated, it's RNG. Its really hard to loop killers like nemisis, alien, Dracula, because they have attacks that can hit over obstacles. If you're up against a pro of one of those, getting tunneled will effectively mean "you don't get to play at all". I'm tried of people saying "skill issue" or "get good". Like really? This nemisis has 6,000 hours in dbd, i have 500. Lemme just close that gap really quick LOL like stfu
Recently had a game with my friend against a singularity, who's my favorite killer to go against. Everything went well at first, but singularity kept finding me and only my duo came to unhook me and vice versa. With bond I eventually saw the other two Fengs just standing and slapping each other the whole match. There was no reason for that, me and my duo even spoke in endgame chat to singularity that that was a shitty game because of the Fengs we were all sorry for each other because it could've been a great game. It was actually quite wholesome.
That's what brings me to my point, personally the game is neither killer nor survivor sided, it always depends on the people who play with you. Have shit teammates? You can have the best chases of your life, it doesn't matter. Find yourself against a swf with a certain build? Well, it's gonna be sweaty. Have a killer with a bad day who wants to trap you in a corner of the map for God knows how long until you dc or the endgame timer runs out? Totally not speaking from experience.
We just need new objectives to replace gens. That's why I quit DBD, its not fun at all to hold one button for 90 seconds. And even chases don't feel that fun, as 50% of the time you just go down to some bull that you can't really predict/counter or you just get caught out in the open, 40% of the time the chase is just too easy and you don't feel challenged at all. 10% of the time, you get a really good chase against a killer who's your equal or a bit better than you and its a fun challenge.
I just want DBD to become more casual again, they should make a 2v8 mode with game chat that has similar escape options to Friday the 13th, weapons for the survivors, the observer as Tommy Jarvis, unique ways to kill every killer, stats for all the survivors and killers, and making it so survivors have more health but only one life state
Sadly, I can attest to the "Efficiency doesn't always = Fun." thing. First time I gave Myer's a try? I tested the Tombstone (now dead, because of a nuke-nerf) combo. I literally won match in less than five minutes. The Survivor's were like, "Was that even remotely fun for you? Just curious." Me: "Honestly? Not really..."
10:35 "Some challenges are downright malicious." Can attest to that too. I DESPISE stun-work, and the main mechanics to best ensure it. I had do the Jane Romero challenge: "Stun a Killer THREE times, in the same match." That doesn't sound difficult, until you actually try it. Mind you, try doing it solo with randoms......
Heh, are we surprised? Probably not, either the devs ruining the charm of the killers and survivors or the player base being the select group of CoD tbagging sore losers, this game is an egg falling down fast
notice how you made killers out to be innocent and survivors out to be guilty. this video is about you.
@@kit_mason Tbf killers can and and will tbag (ok only ghostface and pig can) or hump (everyone else) too, needless to say way less than survivors do, often as a reaction to something.
Of course, it goes without saying that killers have different means of being assholes and can make a game absolutely miserable and toxic experience for the other side just as much as survivors can. If you play only survivor, you will think that killers are assholes and sociopaths. If you play only killer you will think that survivors are cocky sadistic assholes whose only calling in life is to make others miserable for their own pleasure.
If you play both sides, you say that about both camps, but chances are that finding such survivors (since there are 4 of them in each match) are considerably higher than finding that kind of killer (1 max 2 per match, and random killers in 2v8 are usually chill, kwfs have usually higher chance of being like that).
@@kit_mason not exactly. as someone that plays both sides. more often then not it IS survivors that are assholes. think about it. how much freedom in perks and such do survivors have. yet at the same time how bottlenecked killers are into taking the same perks and any change. means you get zero kills or hooks ?
@kit_mason the us vs them mentality is rampant in this community. it's honestly such a disappointment
Well, if you refuse to face the root issues, even if that means facing a non 50-50 reality, then nothing will improve and i'll be disapointed at people like you.
I think the problem is that dbd’s most “efficient” playstyles basically take away the other side’s ability to play the game and are extremely unfun. In literally any other game you can still play against someone who uses “overpowered” weapons, characters, etc. In this game it’s basically the other side taking your keyboard from you
To stop genrushing the perk corrupt intervention should be base kit. You have survivors spawning right next to a gen and start holding M1 since the very first second. Imagine a survivor spawning right next to the killer. Not fair, right?
I've been thinking the same thing. A lesser version of Bond that gives just a general direction too since solo queue survivors have enough of a problem coordinating where SWFs can call out their location.
Give survivors base kit windows of opportunity and we have a deal
@@tmoney1487 no learn the map layouts like the rest of us. Its not that hard.
@@Mentlorfinally someone says it. It’s not hard to learn the map layouts at all. Windows is a literal waste of a perk slot for anyone who has any type of loop or map knowledge
This isn't even a problem and is unnecessary considering if all survivors do gens they spawn next to they 3 gen themselves really badly
It's be cool if they added something like needing to fuel the generators before fixing them, gas canisters would spawn in random locations on the map. Survivors would carry these to a generator while "hindered" carrying them due to the weight of the gasoline.
5:23 The problem is many survivors have no interest in not ruining the killer's fun. They can run the sweatiest meta perks, teabag, flashlight click, then end it off with a watch me leave and a "gg ez baby killer." But the second a killer does something inconvenient for the survivor, well, that killer should have been worrying about the survivor's fun.
Again, you're using the behavior of some people to justify the treatment of all survivors. People who play like what you said first will not expect you to play fair most of the time. You're using the behavior of, let's be real, very rare "bully squads" to justify treating regular solo queue players like this. All i can say is adapt your playstyle based on what you're going against. If you're going against a 4 man swf who's trying their hardest, match that energy. If you're going against 4 randoms who are running diversion or blast mine, adapt to that. There's no reason to apply a "one size fits all" approach when every killer match and every team of survivors are different.
@Lars-Liam-Vilhelm I don't disagree. To be clear, I never intentionally tunnel and have never slugged my way to a 4k. I'm just saying it seems to be entirely on killers to be concerned with everyone's experience.
Beautiful video, I absolutely agree that the main point should just be to give players more options and strategies than the unfun ones (genrush/tunneling)
Survivor is the stronger side by every measurable metric. Its coded in the dna of the game. The better the team the more imbalanced it is. S tier highly skilled killers can make it look like killer is strong. But its mostly a combination of skill and luck. Survivor is way easier to play on average. Even an s tier tunneling killer can be severely punished for tunneling. One good chase from the person being tunneled can make a killer regret the decision. Killers need to play the entire board and set up snowballs. They need touches and hooks on everyone. Simply doing gens will stop a killer from getting more than one or 2 kills.
Some stuff i saw was things like making chests give unique "entity specific" versions of items that are stronger then what you bring normally to incentivize chests, or maybe doing totems applying a smal repair speed bonus or something else.
Then for killer just make it so after 1 survivor is dead all other survivors gain a repair speed bonus equal to the percentage of total hook stages remaining on others. So like if a survivor died on 3 straight hooks (out of 12 total) each other survivor could recieve a 33% bonus to compensate, but if more total stages were completed the bonuses go down exponentially.
Just a couple random thoughts, what do I know lol :) nice video overall
Ardetha op
Pls nerf
Here's an off the wall thought: make Play With Your Food basekit for Killers. Maybe not specifically give movement speed bonuses for letting Survivors escape a chase, but give the Killer some kind of incentive for switching targets, toying with Survivors and otherwise acting like a horror movie monster.
My solution for genrushing would be to make the entity regress every other gen except two that have progress on them. The gen regression would be the same speed as survivors working on gens. (the gen regression would still kick in even if a survivor is currently working on the generator. Those gens then get automatic aura reading for survivors. (to buff soloq) The biggest problem of splitting up on gens is that it evaporates pressure from the killer. You cannot have any pressure when 3 gens are being worked on at the same time. So, make it impossible. While when two survivors work on a single gen, you can chase them off and thus pressure two survivors at the same time, which is really good pressure.
Why would you need to buff solo queue for killers lmao? And the solution is essentially making ruin and discordance base kit? That’s honestly so out of touch with what would actually be needed. If only two gens are allowed progress what happens when the killer is actually running gen slowdown/regression? The best counter to gen rushing.
Thank you for summarizing the hellscape that is the DBD Forums!
I've always played like this: If survivors pop 2 gens within the first 2 minutes of a match, i will tunnel. If they take forever to pop each gen then i try to go for 12 hook states.
If they complain in endgame chat, then boohoo, this is why i like going against console players more, they can't use endgame chat, it's just relaxing not having survivors yell at me in it.
Like i said on my own comment and this is super fair. As a survivor main.
Punishing survivors for doing the only objective that actively helps them get closer to escaping sounds a bit silly... are they just supposed to run to the corner of the map and crouch because you think gens are going too fast? And how does tunneling make the problem any better, its likely that the person youre tunneling is the only one who hasnt been genrushing so why punish them when they havent done anything? When i play killer i dont just go stand in basement because i got 4 downs before the first gen popped.
Pesonally i just dont care, you win some you lose some. Some strategies are always going to be more effective than others, being toxic or punishing the other side for trying to win is a really dumb concept. People need to stop caring so much about winning, thats what ruins the experience in my opinion. If all youre focused on is getting a 4k or 4 man escape then youre going to have a bad time most of the time. Just go with the flow and play out the match like a normal person would, stop caring about winning and losing and just let the match play out to the best of your ability. Have fun, get in a few chases and enjoy yourself. That's way more important than tunneling or genrushing for an advantage. At the end of the day if you dont like how a killer or group of survivors play then you can just block them and never have to worry about it again
@@tmoney1487 Holy essay. Hey, a 4 man swf, or a trio or a duo on comms, with Brand new part commodious toolboxes popping 2 gens almost immediately after the game starts without me doing anything, what's the flow in that? you want me to just take it and go stand in the corner? nah, i'll just tunnel. Getting kills is my objective, so i gotta, if survivors genrush, why shouldn't i rush sending someone back to lobby? :p
If I could change the game, I would make it so survivors must have a toolbox to work on the generators. 4 “default” toolboxes can spawn randomly on the map at the beginning of the game. these default ones don’t use up charges. or the survivors can choose to bring their own better toolbox at the expense of not bringing a flashlight or something else
my solution to gen rushing:
Generators have 4 stages:
Stage 1: the generator is broken and needs repair. it's the same as it currently is, moving on.
Stage 2: the generator is repaired (and cannot be kicked by the killer anymore) but it needs fuel. 2 gas tanks appear at random locations on the map, each with 2 cans next to them, 1 for each survivor. Survivors can get a gas can from there and, after a 10 seconds interaction with the tank, fill it up. a full gas can completely fills a generator with fuel, but if the killer hits a survivor with with a gas can, they drop the can and it loses 1/3 of its fuel and will keep losing fuel until it's either empty or picked back up. they can still pick the can back up and put fuel in the generator, but it won't fill it to full and the gen won't start until it's full. used gas cans can be refilled at gas tanks for the same gen or other gens. gas cans do not take an item slot, they're similar to flashbangs in that regards. also a survivor putting the gas can down instead getting hit with it won't drain the can of its fuel, so if you feel like you're about to enter a chase you can put it down and come back for it later.
Stage 3: the generator is repaired and is full of fuel. a short 1 second interaction from a survivor will turn it on.
Stage 4: the generator is turned on and counts towards the gens done counter. the killer can turn it off after a 5 seconds interaction, reverting it to stage 3.
the amount of time needed to repair a gen or something else can be reduced, the idea is to introduce a mechanic that makes survivors leave the gen and come back to it to make it work and can be used to balance genrushing as well.
That soup analogy was really good. A really good soup, like a slow-cooked beef broth with some shallots an’ onions, just a really good nice, hot, delicious soup. Man I love soup.
this is an issue that's been going on since dbd's release and it's been 9 years almost and still going on, so good luck trying to find a solution
The guy at 1:11 had ds and was like "ᕕ(ཀʖ̯ཀ)ᕗ dammit it's a respectable killer"
I never get the "Playing Mean" ideology. IMO, both side should do there best to win every game. In every other game that's PVP it's expected that the other side is going to be playing to win and it's never really a 'Bad' thing. Like in fighting games, you're not going clown on someone for playing a top tier if they're trying to win. I don't get why people think you should 'Play Nice' in a pvp game. Killers shouls tunnel and proxy and survs should gen rush and take hits. If something is 'Too Broken' or 'Too Unfun' then thats the games fault not the players using the tools given to them.
My fix for gen rushing would be that gens become locked at 50% and survivors would need to search chests for a key to unlock it for more progress, that would cost behaviour nothing to implement. All the assets are there and it encourages survivors to move around the map more.
Weekly perks & killers ban for normal match will force each side to try out new things.
I dont know if someone is asking but the first song in the video is called: 03 - On Your Way - R4 / Ridge Racer Type 4
I only tunnel survivors when they work on a gen for a single second😔
the last bit I've been saying for years. make maps a little bigger, add the additional task that a survivor must get fuel for the gens before they can repair it
Maybe for killers, they gain a blood points bonus for each survivor hooked before a survivor is hooked twice/teaches second stage. This could help deter killers from tunneling until everyone is hooked once.
For anti-generating, I think adding more perks that involve chests and totems have been helping inspire survivors to do side objectives. I think things like that help a lot because they’re cute and give the survivors “powers” like killers in a way. The issue with that though is the more you add in, the more you’ll have to edit and patch up later
It wouldnt deter killers in any way, there's simply not enough time in a game to hook everyone once and play nice, by the time you hooked everyone 3 gens are done and nobody is close to death and you have 0 snowball, but if you focus 2 people you have 2 hooks on both survivors and next time you hook them survivors have 2 people less
woah a dbd video entirely dedicated to explaining that we should work on our communication, lets go!
Maybe make it so that the hook explodes if you try to hook the same survivor twice (just like freddy's fake pallets). For slugging, you could make unbreakable base kit but only activates once 120 seconds or so has passed.
For genrushing, there must be some kind of second objective aside of the gens. Maybe this could vary depending of the map (for example, in Guideon's you must complete a Saw trap in order to get a lever that, when placed in a closed section of the map, it unlocks it and then you keep repairing)
I main trapper blight and vecna
I don’t tunnel proxy camp the still do is hit some one when they get off hook to get them in mending I don’t really try hard at all and I prefer to plan so chases aren’t a priority for me that’s what trapper taught me patience in my opinion the strongest thing to know in dbd at its core is just a chess match
i love playing as a sneaky ghostface, hooking one person and going for the other, but if im pressured i leave one player downed and go for a single other cause they dont know what i'll do
What if the extra objectives to combat gen rushing would be that the generators take less to fix, but survivors would need to open a chest for mechanical parts to repair the exit lever before opening the exit gate? As for totems (This might be cliche) why not make it so that if a totem is fiddled with, survivors can pick up bone scraps to fight the killer for a few seconds, resulting in an instant down afterwards, like a last resort type of thing.
looking past anecdotes is not something gamers will do for a LONG time
For survivors: Make it so some to all generators cant be fixed without a specific unique item/part/fuel, and hide that in a random chest. Forces survivors to do a slow down side quests and gives a reason to search chest other than for just items.
For killers: Make it so survivors just cant die until a certain number of hook stages is reached between all of them. Something like 6 should be good. Gives killers less reason to tunnel, allows players to stay in the game longer as they literally can't be removed too quickly, but still allows efficient killers to keep doing what their doing and eventually players will start dropping.
Gen rushing and tunneling is a false equivalence. One is the literal objective of escaping and can only happen with no gen pressure. Tunnelling is completely optional and very hard for the survivors to stop.
"Genrushing is OP"
Me: A Pig main that regularly gets a 4K before the last generator is completed running a meme build consisting of all end-game perks that never even come into play.
As somebody who has played both Overwatch and dead by daylight, tell me a time when the game and it's players didn't feel like they were at war. You literally can't.
I kinda wanna see a playtest where after repairing a gen you have to go find a can of gas to fuel each gen it would be a neat change of pace from the current loop at least
Make base gen speed slower and have it increase the longer you have been chased rewarding for taking chases, being in them for longer and escaping them
all these debates and all i wanna fucking know is how you make your footage look so beautiful bruv
Its just a nvidia filter,you can have it active as you play
@@directdoggi977 how
@@SieraXQCL If you're on PC, install Geforce Experience, then press Alt + Z in-game and you can adjust filters.
@SieraXQCL alt+z?
@@directdoggi977 thanks i had to update nvidia alt z wasn't working for me for awhile but alt f3 brings up filters too
As someone that plays killer a lot, if I don’t camp or tunnel and win, then I “only won bc my killer is broken”. If I don’t tunnel or camp and lose I get bm’d and get called trash etc in endgame chat. As long as you play killer, you are doomed from the start and how you play whether it’s “toxic” or not, something is going to be said.
Even the statement "Tunneling is unfun" varies greatly, people who love to be chased at all times or just players who are experienced can really enjoy being tunnelled since they can a) improve on looping and b) waste the killers time by looping him and winning the game if they're better than the killer
DBD devs would probably NEVER do this because it’s extreme, but the immediate solution is giving highly reduced blood points for these play styles. Obviously it’s not easy to program how to tell in every situation when it’s tunneling or genrushing, but I feel like barely giving any points is the only solution that will have any traction. This is mostly if they don’t want to introduce different modes or allow you to get rewards doing the friend only mode.
So basically everyone is hating everyone else. Is anyone here really shocked? 💀
Something else I don't think is mentioned is the length of time it takes to get perks of you have bought the game.
A lot of these issues would be solved if BHVR made their data public. It’s been almost a decade of non-transparency into real, quantitative data that outlines trends in game, and their overall downstream effect on the meta. Their product team is abysmal, and makes decisions based on feelings rather than hard analysis.
I could see someone saying that Myers is OP simply from the perspective of the 1v1 as opposed to the 1v4. The Tombstone allows Myers to insta-kill you - it is unlikely he will insta-kill everyone in one go, and it's a significant time investment to get to tier 3 in the first place, but from the perspective of the unlucky survivor who gets got and is now out of the match? They may believe they were unfairly killed. The Tombstone makes Myers play completely unlike other killers and allows him to ignore the normal mechanics for downing and hooking a survivor to kill them. This is objectively powerful, even if the time investment and skill requirements (on both sides) make it very risky/unlikely to win the ENTIRE match.
Even from the perspective of a teammate, you can't really do much to save the one who's being targeted. You can't take a hit for them, there's no opportunity to heal them from the ground, they cannot be rescued from the hook, nothing. Even if you get out with the 3-man escape, someone had to die, either because they couldn't outrun the killer or just couldn't get to a locker to hide and prevent the insta-kill, and that sucks.
3:33 after my third match in a row being brought to eyrie against sabo/boil over, it starts feeling A LOT like a map specific issue and less like “being unlucky” lmao. So glad the sac ward is common now, but I’m still getting the occasional swf that just stacks 4 offerings to counter it.