Christianity is an irrational system of conformity, wishful thinking, and self-deception - Zach Doty
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- Today I spoke with Zach Doty, who grew up in Pentecostal and Foursquare churches, and later moved toward a Calvinistic perspective, before deconstructing his faith and realizing the irrationality of the Christianity worldview, and ultimately deconverting.
As we went through his story, we touched on topics such as:
• Understanding that truth is worth having, and therefore worth the pursuit, even if the journey is difficult.
• Admitting the conflicting motivations that override our search for truth.
• The experience of memorizing the Bible and passing out gospel tracts door to door.
• Moving from an Arminian perspective into a Calvinistic one, to more seriously honor the New Testament theology of election and sovereignty.
• Believing, as Christians, that people were inherently and completely wicked, at enmity with the Yahweh character, incapable of reaching out to him, spiritually dead, and having nothing good to offer him.
• Reveling in how the Yahweh character, in his mercy, chose to redeem his elect, of his own will and for his glory.
• Looking for "fruit" in our own lives and others, to have assurance that the Jesus character is living in us.
• Believing, as a Christian, that the world was 6,000 years old and even that the universe was geocentric.
• Being unwilling, as a Christian, to accept any scientific evidence that contradicted the Bible.
• Realizing, during deconstruction, that we had been severely duped by Christian apologist con-artists.
• Starting over as an adult, learning real science for the first time, after growing up in Christianity and its pseudo-science.
• The harrowing experience of seeing your epistemology crumble in front of you during deconstruction.
• Realizing that religion is the epitome of a selfish and anthropomorphic worldview, where the Yahweh character is orchestrating the gospel and all of history for you, so you can be part of his bride.
• Realizing we were callous to and even supporting the eternal conscious torment and suffering of the reprobate, in hell, because their torture was deserved and brought glory to Yahweh.
• Taking pride, as Christians, in ignorance and closed-mindedness, because we were part of the "base" things of the world, the clay that Yahweh chose to make into vessels of glory.
• How we go through life with an assumption that we are mostly rational in our worldview, even if we have a few ideas to tweak, rather than admit that we may be profoundly wrong about the most critical parts of our beliefs.
• The overwhelming power that our need for conformity has over us, especially in the areas of worldview and beliefs.
• The importance of being willing to update our worldview based on new information.
• Realizing that our intuitions are usually wrong, and that we need to question our assumptions and begin to apply the scientific method to our worldview, in our efforts to remove bad ideas and to search for the truth.
• The crucial importance of doubting claims, especially extraordinary ones that have no evidence, instead of blindly believing them.
• Admitting the role of wishful thinking and self-deception in our belief systems, especially when most of our loved ones and teachers all believe the same thing.
• How Christianity is like an evolved virus of parasitic ideas that infects our minds, in order to exploit our agency and biases, and that it is focused on its own self-interests and survival, not on truth or on our best interest.
• Understanding that the Bible is not monolithic, but that it was written by many men over many centuries, with competing, evolving, and incompatible ideas.
• The beauty of having truth as your North Star, versus conformity to an ancient, primitive text, which just leads to unending cognitive dissonance.
• The path to developing and using tools of truth.
Thanks to Zach for sharing his amazing journey out of the mythology of Christianity and into rationality and freedom!
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Zach's YT channel:
/ zachdoty0
Zach's website
zachdoty.com/
Zach's FB page:
/ zach.doty.355
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(many more channels and videos coming soon!)
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Tim may be reached by email at: harmonicatheist@yahoo.com
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Ending music by Eyal Raz, "Friends"
• Friends
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This guy is amazing. He has read extensively and is able to communicate the core ideas effectively.
Eeewwww wow he must be divine inspiration eeewwww wow! He speaks the truth let's make him a god. Gullible people.
@@headbangerministries thee only thing you will get... In the first stages of thee after life... Is an apartment (one bedroom efficiency type) in the city of DEATH.
There is so much information touched on in here and as an ex Christian with limited knowledge of science, ancient history, etc I can barely get my head around it! I wish Zach would create his own channel to break it all down bite by bite. I’m 60 and wishing I had time to go back to school. But the vast array of subject matter seems like it would take another lifetime to study it all. I am amazed at all the information he has stored on so many topics and levels. I could listen all day. I love this! I am intelligent and a seeker of truth, but I see how my religion and myself, have limited my education and search for the whole truth to maintain my religious construct all these years. I am not angry or sad, well maybe just a bit, like when I learned Santa Claus wasn’t real. But it is what it is. I am much more glad I now know the truth and have so much more to learn - that part is exciting to me. It is frustrating dealing with so many others still stuck in their delusions - that part is very sad to realize how they chose to believe their beliefs are facts, but explains a lot when I look at people today who for example, discount science and facts but see things through such a confusing erroneous filter. I’m glad to hear people like Tim & Zach & Derick at Mythvision and others having these fascinating discussions. Thanks again Tim. And I think we have to thank You Tube and the Internet for making it possible!
@dreamzofhorses
You have been listening to Balaaaaam's donkey, and he is a liar. Santa is real, and so is the tooth fairy, Easter, + Duracell Bunnies. BTW You are not too old to learn, and the proof is today you have gained new knowledge. I am encouraged by your long comment as it summarises my position, too - except for your false Santa claim. Thanks for your interest and contribution.
dreamzofhorses,
Buy the book 📖 “There’s no such thing as Magic Blood,” by David Matityahu Ben Avraham 👌🏼
He came out of that fake religion, and documents his journey, succinctly, and lists books that he read along the way, to confirm the new path/ trajectory, he was about to embark on.
I promise you, you’ll love it 😍
It's never too late to be what one could have been. And I now apply that quote to me being an educated and informed ex Christian. I have been deconverting for about 2 years. Its been very bittersweet.
Late to respond to your comment. I’m an older guy to : 68. Zach is pretty amazing. To respond to your statement, Zach does have a YT channel. Tim put a link up if you haven’t seen it. Not too many vids analyzing his beliefs.
I relate to this story, noticing errors, trying to make sense of how they weren't errors but were me not seeing correctly. At some point realizing people were clearly wrong and had no interest in what was true. This freed me up to follow what I found to be true no matter what I had been brought up to believe.
Its truely amazing how many lies we are fed about EVERYTHING!!! Lies in religion, health, science.... its nice to know we have our own mind to filter it all through. Sometimes I wonder if at the end of my life, will i have found any truth..... im so glad to be on this journey! Thank you for sharing guys!
Hey, I am past 90, and am far from knowing all I want to know.
But I am free of church, religion, fear, and that frees me from a lot of the BS around me.
Just think:
Free of heaven or hell, of God and Jesus or Muhammad.
What a relief!
Which lies of science specifically do you refer to?
You realize without science you wouldn't be posting on the Internet in the first place.
It is geo-centric but also narcissistic to believe that you are chosen and have the keys to the kingdom while everyone else who doesn't believe what you believe is doomed. You are so right; the arrogance of Calvinists stands out. Very interesting interview with a very well read man.
I don't know much about Calvinists, but I do know that Jehovah's Witnesses consider that they alone have the truth. They are taught to believe that everyone else who fails to accept their version of the 'truth' is 'worldly' and deserving of destruction at Armageddon. Talk about deluded.
@@juliaabadi6812 the former religion I was in believed the exact same thing. They believe they were the only ones called by God at this time and at the rest of the world would be called later. Most of the Christian religions that I have encountered believe that they are the correct ones and descend from the apostolic line. Religion in general grants permission of exclusivity so that people believe that they are different than others.
Not just that, but that you were chosen by God from the foundation of the world, that God also damned the vast majority of humanity at the same time, and there's nothing the damned can do to be saved. Calvinism is a truly vile belief system. At least other types of Christians believe anyone can be saved.
I believe religion creates mental disorders for its followers and affects mental health, making them feel that they are worthless and bad
I'd like to add: As are all religions, Christianity is an irrational system of lies.
Not all religions
Calling something a lie implies intention.
@@aliyourbrother1 Siddhartha's Buddhism before it was corrupted might be an exception
The bible doesn't teach Christianity. Christianity was created by the Romans. But the bible is amazing astrology and mythology..
If you take religion literally then it is lies. But you are assuming that it’s intention was to be taken literally. It clearly wasn’t.
I don’t advise anyone to join an organized religion. I advise people to ask what ancient philosophy asked: What qualities of being do you wish to develop.
If you wish to develop the quality of being of inductive and deductive reason then Socrates is a great illustration of that.
If you want to develop a quality of being of ethical discernment then the sayings of Jesus has a great deal to offer.
If you wish to develop a quality of being that is capable as seeing through illusions of the mind then Vendetta has a great deal to offer.
The first task of a contemporary person is a revaluation of all values.
I happen to value the interpersonal ethical discernment and psychological insights of Jesus, but I also value Psychology to help with the task.
Both the mindless following of a religion and the wholesale dismissal of it is equally childish.
Thank you Tim for the work you do & the non aggressive way in which you & your guests make their points known. I am in the agonies of deconstruction. I still believe in intelligent design & heard so many NDE accounts that are hard to dismiss lightly however I know that the Bible has so many problems, errors, mistakes & misinformation. This revelation has rocked my world & wrecked my theology but I'd rather seek after the truth, thank you.
Thanks, Tony, and I wish you peace on your journey out of Christianity! I hope the agony subsides soon and it just feels like you won the lottery.
@@HarmonicAtheist thanks so much Tim
It is from the Bible that man has learned cruelty, rapine, and murder; for the belief of a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine
Founding father of USA
Vatican is corrupt and busy laundering vast sums of Mafia money through the 'Vatican Bank'. The papacy hasn't helped itself with its insistence on an absurd level of secrecy and its earlier involvement with criminals like Sindona and Calvi.
"Vatican is Evil terrorist satanic organisation."
If Satan does exist, then he thrives inside the Roman Catholic Church
Exodus 22:29-30
You must give me the first born of your sons. Do the same with your cattle and your sheep. Let them stay with their mothers for seven days, but give them to me on the eighth day
"In the entire first Christian century Jesus was not mentioned by a single Greek or Roman historian, religion scholar, politician, philosopher or poet. His name never occurs in a single inscription, and it is never found in a single piece of private correspondence. Zero! references."
"Jesus Christ Was never Exist "
Plz see video...
ruclips.net/video/QTmZlckcwMY/видео.html
Bible allow slavery, rape , loot , genocide , terrisom
& it is always against the science and morality .
"You will eat the fruit of the womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters the Lord your God has given
you." (Deuteronomy 28:53)
"The Lord said to Joshua [..] 'you are to hamstring their horses." " (Exceedingly cruel.) (Joshua 11:6)
Judges 21:10-24
NLT-
"So the assembly sent 12,000 of their best warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children.
“This is what you are to do,” they said. “Completely destroy[a] all the males and every woman who is not a virgin.” Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found 400 young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan."
ruclips.net/video/0CCkG9C1z_g9/видео.html
"It would be more consistent that we call [the Bible] the work of a demon than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind."
Thomas Paine
Exodus 21:7-11
“If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as male servants do. If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself,[a] he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her. 9 If he selects her for his son, he must grant her the rights of a daughter. 10 If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights.(A) 11 If he does not provide her with these three things, she is to go free, without any payment of money.
Plz click link to read...
www.evilbible.com
Chritianity debunked using science & history
As per Bible the creation Begins in 4004 BC at 9 AM on 23rdOctober. Means creation took place nearly 6000 year ago.
Bible said earth is flat , sun moving around the , But Galileo said that the earth is round and circles the sun , and the church blinded him , so that he can never look into another telescope.
Also punish copernicus .
In reality by modern science cosmos is 15 billion years old and that the mind and consciousness has to be factored in. Well the advent of quantum physics has proved Bible wrong.
Undermining of science is evil
When I think of all the harm the Bible has done, I despair of ever writing anything to equal it’
- Oscar Wilde (1854-1900), Irish author
Plz see video....
ruclips.net/video/79UAYyMYk7I/видео.html
The Bible is one of the most genocidal books in history.
Noam chomsky
Vatican is Evil terrorist satanic organisation."
@@HarmonicAtheist it's actually more sinister than you could ever imagine!!!!!!!!! And when you discover this truth "The Falsity of Christianity" you will never be the same.
Where is Zach now?
The virus analogy is quite profound. I feel like I too should have been wearing a seatbelt for all this. Wild ride through Christianity's crazy mythic worldview. Thanks Tim and Zach.
You would enjoy Richard Dawkins The Selfish Gene.
Ikr, it's like our minds playing tricks on us, lol.
When you said Tim "what am I passing to my kids" you hit the nail on the head..all belief systems must be questioned with logic..
The Old Testament says over twenty times that Yahweh loves the aroma of burning flesh. So it only makes sense that he created the damned, the non-elect to be human logs in his hellfire so he can smell their aroma which is so pleasing to him.
Do Calvinists not see how twisted dark and sick this is? This dark sadistic god they worship actually created non-elect humans so he could damn them to hell so he could smell their burning flesh.
The non-Calvinists are not that much better. Their god is going to delight in the aroma of all those who do not have the blood of Jesus covering their sins. So his human logs are Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, and agnostics.
The phrase "Yahweh loves the incense of burning flesh" is not a direct quote from any religious text, but it seems to be a reference to the practice of animal sacrifice in ancient Israelite religion. In the Hebrew Bible, there are instances where God commands the Israelites to offer animal sacrifices as a form of worship and to atone for their sins. The burning of the animal's flesh was seen as a pleasing aroma to God.
For example, in Leviticus 1:9, it is written: "But its entrails and its legs he shall wash with water. And the priest shall offer all of it and burn it on the altar; it is a burnt offering, a food offering with a pleasing aroma to the LORD."
However, it is important to note that the concept of sacrifice and the understanding of God's nature have evolved over time within the Abrahamic religions. Modern interpretations of these practices often focus on the symbolic or spiritual aspects of sacrifice, rather than the physical act of burning flesh.
The OT mentions over twenty times that Yahweh enjoys the aroma of burning flesh. It may be the reason he wants to put so many people in his sadistic hell pit for all eternity so he can enjoy the aroma of burning human logs.
One of the most egregious beliefs is that the scripture is THE truth when it comes to the end of the world. It is easy for one to think since it is all ending soon there is no need to prepare in this life for the needs of yourself and your family. This belief was the one who kept me from progressing as much as I could have. Now going forward I'm glad that I still have some time left to improve life and the lives of others around me...
It is so easy to become self-centered because you want to be right before God above taking care of yourself and others.
No one knows what tomorrow holds, it’s all in HaShem’s hands 🙌🏼
Wow yes, I can relate to this so much. You become so utterly consumed/obsessed with your relationship with God that you can’t turn it off.
Zach describes God's plan as a pointless robotic ballet in which Free Will is a scam because God has pre-decided everything. Kudos to him for realising this is utterly bizarrely ridiculous and unbecoming a God who is omniscient. More like the world created by a supreme narcissist, pushing pawns around for his own amusement and glory.
Hi. So true. Speaking of free will‼️
A STORY in the garden🎍💐..........
Did God HAVE TO make sure that Adam and Eve failed that test in the garden so that Adam and Eve and their descendants (including us) would eventually get saved and be perfect in heaven❓OR, just allow Adam and Eve to remain PERFECT on into eternity and skip that whole Apple 🍎🍏 tree test in the garden thingy, so-called sin, BILLIONS of people in hell.🔥🚒
Christians like to say that Adam and Eve were not robots 🤖...... they had free will. But, really why couldn't God leave well enough (perfect) alone❓Instead he felt it necessary to fix something that wasn't broken and because Adam & Eve failed that strange test of their 'free will' in the garden the result is BILLIONS of people eventually finding their way to hell🔥🚒‼️Talk about storytelling.
There's NO value in a test for a creature said to be PERFECT‼️
Give it up fanatics of religion. You're losing the argument‼️ 😬
Great interview! Zach definitely convinced me to seek a more scientific/ analytical approach to not only deconversion, but also to life in general! It was almost comical to see how Tim's repeated attempts to draw out more of the emotional aspects of Zach's deconversion continually resulted in Zach going deeper into psychological and scientific explanations of what was happening during his deconversion in reality! Zach's devotion to analytical truth gathering is evidently helpful not only to defend against the viral mind plague of mythical religion, but also the emotional backlash against it's adherents.
" God is high, but truth is higher still." Kirpal Singh ( your conversation reminded me of this )
Christianity had designated Jesus as the truth (the Logos). (John Gospel and the Apology of Justin Martyr).
So there are to ways to understand this. One is provincial. In this case a person worships Jesus or the image of Jesus. Which in Christian terms is idolatry.
The other way is universal thereby one reveres the truth.
If Jesus is the Truth and Reason (an aspect of the Logos) then how is abandoning the Truth or Reason following Jesus? It’s not. Those who are unreasonable have abandoned Reason and Truth, so thereby they abandoned Jesus.
But the philosophy of Jesus specifically is primarily a philosophy of ethics and ontology (a quality of being) and not material reductionist philosophy or mere instrumental reason.
Are ethics important? Of course. Can ethics be deduced from pure reason. Absolutely not. In order to have an ethics you plug in a value system. Which is not quantitative information it is qualitative values and experience. Values of the variable "religion" differ qualitatively.
I am not advocating for one religion or the other. But I am saying that the distinction of functions are being made poorly by scientific material reductionists.
If a person experiences romantic love for example is the best response to say:
I hypothesize that the moment that you walked into the room your visual form stimulated my hypothalamus and I experienced a strong urge to be in proximity to you.
Maybe we need a little better discourse on romantic love than scientific material reductionism.
RIP Zack, you lived a good life.
What a great mind lost.
Zach Doty, your parents/home schoolers may have taught you the wrong information, but they certainly taught you how to find infomation. You can thank them for that.
Good point..
I have a feeling Zach would enjoy reading the Biology of Belief by Dr. Bruce Lipton. It’s one of my favorite books I read while deconstructing my previously held beliefs.
I attended a lecture of Dr. Lipton years ago. Got my book autographed. One of my favorite books too.
@@philmabarak5421 that’s awesome!
This conversation is hugely impressive and informative on the subject of moving from a superstitious to a scientific worldview. Well done to all involved.
I enjoyed hearing this guy speak. He has swam deep in the waters of deconversion.
Another gem. Keep it coming. Really want to hear your take on the real origins of the bible which you often allude to.
ASAP if not sooner :)
Are religious people happier? Or are religious people required to say they are happier? What is the sample used to determine this?
I'm impressed with the amount of time the people you interview have put into their understanding of what Christianity/religion actually is. It's pretty amazing to understand how this belief system has influenced our society at so many levels. It's truly mind blowing!!! Each of these people have been heroic in their investigation of what had to be a frightening realization....that they'd spent their whole life believing a lie!!! I find myself waking up to reality more and more with each interview. We've been hoodwinked in such profound and negative ways by this crap and most of us aren't even aware of it.....astonishing!!! These religious systems haven't just affected the seriously committed followers. No, they have infiltrated all of society at a deeply subconscious level. They've destroyed our ability to be fully alive and engaged in life without this mind numbing, subliminal fear.....unbelievably harmful!!
I absolutely love your channel. Thankyou and continue exposing christian and educating us
Thanks, Jitendra!
His parents abused him by teaching him lies. Shame on them for creating a child knowing that their child will potentially burn in hell for eternity.
Whenever I had questions about the absurdity of the Old testament, I was told not to worry about it but to focus on the New testament
I visited India and Nepal for one month a few years ago and loved it.
*Although the biblical narratives depict Yahweh as the sole creator god, lord of the universe, and god of the Israelites especially, initially he seems to have been Canaanite in origin and subordinate to the supreme god El.* Canaanite inscriptions mention a lesser god Yahweh and even the biblical Book of Deuteronomy stipulates that *“the Most High, El,* gave to the nations their inheritance” and that “Yahweh's portion is his people, Jacob and his allotted heritage” (32:8-9). A passage like this reflects the early beliefs of the Canaanites and Israelites in polytheism or, more accurately, henotheism (the belief in many gods with a focus on a single supreme deity). *The claim that Israel always only acknowledged one god is a later belief cast back on the early days of Israel's development in Canaan.*
*It is generally accepted in the modern day, however, that Yahweh originated in southern Canaan as a lesser god in the Canaanite pantheon* and the Shasu, as nomads, most likely acquired their worship of him during their time in the Levant.
*Yahweh in the Canaanite Pantheon*
The biblical narrative, however, is not as straightforward as it may seem as it also includes reference to the Canaanite god El whose name is directly referenced in `Israel' (He Who Struggles with God or He Who Perseveres with God). *El was the chief deity of the Canaanite pantheon and the god who, according to the Bible, gave Yahweh authority over the Israelites:*
When the *Most High [El]* gave to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of men, he fixed the bounds of the peoples according to the number of the Sons of God. For Yahweh's portion is his people, Jacob his allotted heritage. (Deuteronomy 32:8-9, Masoretic Text).
The Canaanites, like all ancient civilizations, worshipped many gods but chief among them was the sky-god El. *In this passage from Deuteronomy, El gives each of the gods authority over a segment of the people of earth and Yahweh is assigned to the Israelites who, in time, will make him their supreme and only deity; but it is clear he existed beforehand as a lesser Canaanite god.*
Yahweh, according to Amzallag, was transformed from one god among many to the supreme deity by the Israelites in the Iron Age (c.1200-930 BCE) when iron replaced bronze and the copper smelters, whose craft was seen as a kind of transformative magic, lost their unique status. *In this new age, the Israelites in Canaan sought to distance themselves from their neighbors in order to consolidate political and military strength and so elevated Yahweh above El as the supreme being and claimed him as their own.* His association with the forge, and with imagery of fire, smoke, and smiting, worked as well in describing a god of storms and war and so Yahweh's character changed from a deity of transformation to one of conquest.
*As the Israelites developed their community in Canaan, they sought to distance themselves from their neighbors and, as noted, elevated Yahweh above the traditional Canaanite supreme deity El.* They did not, however, embrace monotheism at this time. The Israelites remained a henotheistic people through the time of the Judges, which predates the rise of the monarchy, and throughout the time of the Kingdom of Israel (c.1080-c. 722).
Google *"Yahweh - **WorldHistory.Org.**"*
Watch Dr Christine Hayes at Yale University. Watch lecture 7 from 30:00 minutes onwards and lecture 8 from 12:00 to 19:00 minutes.
Google *"Jews and Arabs Descended from Canaanites - Biblical Archaeology Society."*
Google *"Canaanite Religion - New World Encyclopaedia."*
Google *"Canaanite Religion - **Realhistoryww.com**"*
Google *"Canaanite Phoenician Origin of the God of the Israelites."*
Google *"The Phoenician God Resheph in the Bible - Is That in the Bible?"*
Google *"God's Wife Edited Out of the Bible - Almost."*
Google *"Yahweh's Divorce from the Goddess Asherah in the Garden of Eden - Mythology Matters."*
Google *"Married Deities: Asherah and Yahweh in Early Israelite Religion - Yahweh Elohim."*
Google *"How the Jews Invented God and Made Him Great- Archaeology - Haaretz."*
Google *"The Invention of God - Maclean's"*
Google *"The Boundaries of the Nations - Yahweh Elohim."*
Google *"Excerpt from “Yahweh and the Gods and Goddesses of Canaan” by John Day - Lehi's Library."*
Google *"How Did the Bible’s Editors Conceal Evidence of Israelite Polytheism - Evolution of God by Robert Wright."*
Google *"A Theologically Revised Text: Deuteronomy 32:8-9 - Ancient Hebrew Poetry."*
Google *"Biblical Contradiction #3: Which God is the Creator of the Heavens and Earth: Yahweh or El?"*
Google *"Biblical Contradiction #27. Are Yahweh and El the Same God or Not?"*
Google *"Mark Smith: "Yahweh as El’s Son & Yahweh's Ascendancy - Lehi's Library."*
Google *"Quartz Hill School of Theology - B425 Ugarit and the Bible."*
Google *"The Origins of Yahweh and the Revived Kenite Hypothesis - Is That in the Bible?"*
Google *"Yahweh, god of metallurgy - Fewer Lacunae."*
Google *"Polytheistic Roots of Israelite Religion - Fewer Lacunae."*
Google *"Biblical Polytheism - Bob Seidensticker."*
Google *"Combat Myth: The Curious Story of Yahweh and the Gods Who Preceded Him - Bob Seidensticker."*
Google *"Religious Studies: El, Yahweh and the Development of Monotheism in Ancient Israel."*
Google *"Decoupling YHWH and El - Daniel O. McClellan."*
Google *"Yhwh, God of Edom - Daniel O. McClellan."*
Google *"The Most Heiser: Yahweh and Elyon in Psalm 82 and Deuteronomy 32 - Religion at the Margins"* based on the *majority scholarly consensus.*
Gives me anxiety just listening to this. I spent three years terrified that I wasn’t one of the elect, every week struggling with belief, praying to be saved, I fell into such a deep depression I lost my personality. I tried so hard to “follow Christ” but it brought me so low when I left I was demonized, called selfish, prideful, told I just wanted to sin
I am so sad to see this gentleman has already passed. What a great mind..
This is helping me learn a lot about my brother, who this guy's past reminds me of a lot.
He's helping me remember some of the things my brother would say
I have myself thought a lot about the mind parasite, not just like an obsessive idea that lives in your brain, but a some kind of an alternate personality (as in "multiple personality disorder") to which we refer as God, to which we pray and complain to, which talks back to us, forgives us and quietly overlooks our hidden "sins".
Not all of the believers have it, though, many of us have been simply imitating the behavior of those around us, this is why it is much easier for us to leave religion, while others can't, because it would mean that their alternate personality has to die, and it's this parasitic personality that keeps its host terrified and ankered to religion.
Anyway, that's just my speculation, can't wait for the actual science on it. 🙂
The big thing is the emotional factors involved. There are certain kinds of feeling which get classified as "spiritual" since a religious context is where some people have them. So people misconstrue any occurrence of having those feelings as relating to god even outside of their religious practices. The result being this set of feelings becomes god.
So you could be hanging out in an Arby's parking lot and suddenly get those feelings then decide god is telling you something about that Arby's. But all that's really going on is your brain squirted out some chemicals in the right combination.
The other big factor is post hoc rationalization. People largely operate with their own self interest foremost in their mind. In a religious setting people are encouraged to submit their will to god. But of course there is no god. So they look to justify their ideas and desires after the fact by convincing themselves that the ideas came from a god.
Brains have a powerful capacity for self deception and a powerful need to fit in with a community. So if your community says "there is a god", we'll move mountains to ensure that we continue to believe what we need to in order to continue being a part of that community.
@@rainbowkrampus We also have to consider that for some, they may not be taken in by all aspects of a faith, but have to remain in the 'system' because if they were to leave, it would mean being separated from their support network of friends and family. Jehovah's Witnesses practice shunning and the consequences of this range from depression to suicide, as parents and children are cut off from one another and former friends no longer speak to you.
@@juliaabadi6812 Sure sure. Personal safety is top priority in all things.
I'd almost never argue for someone to do something that goes against that principle.
I just take it as a given among charitable readers because the alternative is to qualify every statement with every possible contingency and that's hardly a way to communicate.
If someone is unsure they are always free to ask.
Cognito,
You might be interested in Dr Lian McGilchrists interviews here on you tube. He specialises in brain hemispere research.
He touches on some of the ideas you speak of in your post.
I think we make it up. Lol honestly cuz wen i was young n athiest their never was a god voice in my head. When i fell into christianity there was all a sudden a god voice. N i knew i made it up cuz it never matched anything. Ugh it was horrible. When i left it pretty much gone lmao.
These two chaps are really significant in today's modern society.
Good questions, good guest, good dialogue. Very good.
I wish my entire family where free for their christian/catholic dogma.
As absurd as it is at least Calvinist are honest. it’s clear when you get down to the ultimate reason for human /animal suffering and souls suffering forever ever it’s for Gods glory. if god reality cared about his children as much as he cared about himself he wouldn’t bring people into existence in the first place.
Well maybe god was bored so created his own horror movie - even sadistic gods must get their entertainment somehow!
@@margaretbarrett6087 completely agree
Well done! Great conversation with many great revelations revealed. Pun intended.
This is one of your better guest!
How you both crucified Christianity was absolutely epic; while logic and much knowledge was I definitely learning about even the denomination in which I came from, sharing Zach's, being Pentecostal as well. An appreciation for everything sir, and I hope to see you return with Tim for another session soon. 😊
Some thoughts I have about Calvinists.
1. How do they really know that they're one of the chosen?
2. If they are, are they so callous that they really don't care that their own child is burning in hell?
3. If they "make it to heaven", won't they be walking around on eggshells, afraid at any point they might displease him? Also, with a god of that demeanor, how do they know he won't get tired of them someday and say, "To hell with you too"?
A point to make about Calvinists being the only ones in heaven; since they seem to be very arrogant and self-centered, I dont think a community can exist or be sustained with that type of people. Therefore, it seems like heaven would die out.
Just my thoughts.
People live and give whole their lives for a guy that event existed at all. What a anticlimax🤔2000 years of self-deception.
Book of Isaiah says those will perish through lack of knowledge, yet adam and eve were cast out for eating of the tree of knowledge. One could fill books in point form of the non stop biblical incongruencies.
42:30 "taking pride in ignorance; in being the base clay,"
That is a very good description
It would be great, Tim, if you could also invite people onto your platform that have deconstructed from Islam. To me, people who follow Islam seem to lack optimism and their every action and every circumstance is controlled by God. They have no incentive to improve themselves - or make their lives better - because their present state is the one God intended. They are locked in mindset which is from thousands of years ago.
i was about 5 and the santa bs then noahs little boat i noticed a lady at sunday school was really believin that crap 😳🤯
Noah’s little boat 🤣😂
Zach - please look up the elegant term emergence. It may just epitomize the concept you are trying to communicate...that is, that a collection of parts of nature have much different properties than those of the individual parts. It is what results in the "miracles" of reality and ultimately life. A lot of the explaination of the layers of life are best summarized as layers of emergence, each excitingly complex and worthy of understanding.
Superb video Tim! Zach has done his research. My take after watching this video is the point that the mythology perspective is restrictive and limiting. In other words, these beliefs don't move us forward, they hold us back. They keep us short-sighted.
“As if one believed anything by instinct! One believes things because one has been conditioned to believe them. Finding bad reasons for what one believes for other bad reasons-that's philosophy. People believe in God because they've been conditioned to believe in God.” ― Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
'It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.' - Sherlock
“I make a point of never having any prejudices, and of following docilely wherever fact may lead me.”- The Reigate Puzzle, Sherlock
It is logical (conformity exp): supposing you are wrong, you are either wrong while keeping it to yourself, or you are wrong AND rejected by the community. And this also seems to hold for when you are right. You can lose your mind participating in this.
The title of this video is one of the best summaries ,into one sentence, that explains what religion boils down to. (Brilliant interview by the way.)
Even as a child attending Episcopal services alternating between morning prayer and holy communion I became suspicious that the New Testament era was presented as the time of miracles which begs the question of why there are no longer any miracles, especially keeping in mind that I actually lived in a heavily Catholic neighborhood and had heard of the apparitions of Our Lady of Fatima in Portugal during the First World War. This led to my becoming an atheist shortly after being confirmed at the age of 13 and then lapsing shortly thereafter. But then as a young adult I became nostalgic and started attending services again on and off for decades really and even spent fourteen months in three different monasteries until I read The Jesus Mysteries by Freke & Gandy. That finished me off for good. Also read numerous other titles in the Christ myth vein. The Pagan Christ by Harpur is really the easiest. Then also The World’s Sixteen Crucified Saviors by Graves and Who is this King of Glory [?] by Alvin Boyd Kuhn Ph.D. Tom Harpur was an Anglican priest from Canada who also had his Ph.D from the University of Oxford in England. Then also Alan Watts, a lapsed Episcopalian priest and an English immigrant who attended Kings College preparatory school attached to Canterbury Cathedral in Kent, England, was a big influence with his many books on the subject of Asian religions such as Hinduism, Daoism and Zen Buddhism. Although a religion Buddhism is essentially atheistic in the sense that it doesn’t promote belief in Gods although to be fair it makes no definitive pronouncements such as there being no God, something which of course cannot actually be proven. They seem to be more interested in attaining cosmic consciousness or enlightenment called in Japanese satori.
Palpable existential fear and dread in childhood. How much damage does this do throughout a person's life?
He is referring to the memes that Richard Dawkins coined in his book The Selfish Gene, by which he was describing how humans merge and evolve ideas in a more deliberate way than natural selection.
This video came up in my recommendations. Watched it all the way through, but I feel like Zach kept rambling and getting off the topic. Good points made, but kind of tiring to watch.
Anyway, I was raised Catholic and I was asking questions about belief since I was a kid. I can appreciate that religion has psychological benefits for some people, and I'm open to the idea of some kind of creative force out there like the Tao. I'm actually a pretty spiritual person. But it seems so painfully obvious that the anthropomorphic deities are projections of human hopes, fears, and desires. Christianity might have made sense to primitive people who believed in a geocentric universe, but today it just seems absurd that a deity would take such an interest in the lives of the inhabitants of one of trillions of planets in the universe.
Also, the omni-aspects of the Judeo-Christian God fall apart fairly quickly when you apply the slightest bit of logic to them. And the idea of a sadistic deity who will send most of his own creation to eternal torment would be laughable if it didn't cause so much psychic damage to so many people.
Just think about the fact that if God knows everything, then he knew Adam and Eve would sin before he even made them. So he just set them up for a fall. They never had any free will, and neither do we, if God knows our entire life stories before we're ever born. Nor could an all-loving, all-powerful deity allow horrors like childhood cancer. It's all completely ridiculous, and it amazes me that so many people still hold to the beliefs so uncritically. One problem is that most people don't want to get kicked out of the tribe for challenging the tribe's beliefs. Another, which Zach touched on, is that we teach our kids what to think instead of how to think.
Hi. Speaking of free will.......
A STORY in the garden🎍💐..........
Did God HAVE TO make sure that Adam and Eve failed that test in the garden so that Adam and Eve and their descendants (including us) would eventually get saved and be perfect in heaven❓OR, just allow Adam and Eve to remain PERFECT on into eternity and skip that whole Apple 🍎🍏 tree test in the garden thingy, so-called sin, BILLIONS of people in hell.🔥🚒
Christians like to say that Adam and Eve were not robots 🤖...... they had free will. But, really why couldn't God leave well enough (perfect) alone❓Instead he felt it necessary to fix something that wasn't broken and because Adam & Eve failed that strange test of their 'free will' in the garden the result is BILLIONS of people eventually finding their way to hell🔥🚒‼️Talk about storytelling.
I woke up to this delusion based on its contradictions.. for example..christians believe at birth we're sinners yet another verse states 'we are fearfully and wonderfully made by God''??? love both deconstruction &deconversion stories from 'Harmonic Atheist''...
Definitely not a contradiction. All humans, despite being sinners, have inherit worth as image bearers of God.
@@nate9601 Hi.
God is PERFECT❓And that would mean Gods IMAGE is PERFECT and ANYTHING God creates in his PERFECT IMAGE would have to be PERFECT‼️
So, then ALL humans are PERFECT‼️ NOW lets reverse the above and say humans are NOT PERFECT.
Then Gods IMAGE they were CREATED in is NOT PERFECT and finally God himself could not be PERFECT‼️
The first option God and humans are PERFECT doesn't seem right looking at the strife and suffering in the world 🌎.
The second option is God and humans are NOT perfect and so maybe a God that is less than perfect is basically useless and doesn't even exist in literal terms (only in mythology storytelling of course)‼️😳 😬
I am very glad that algorithms suggested me your channel! Great interviews, thank you for your work!❤
Thank you for your support!
Absolutely!
However, that goes for other religions as well.
All irrational, with no hard and solid facts.
Unfortunately, it appears that humans need to have their gods, or they tend to get lost.
They need someone/something to show them where and how to proceed.
No matter how shadowy or how impossible when looked at with a clear mind.
That has been proved for more than four millennia.
A sad state of affairs, but a reality.
Another exellent interview, Tim! Thanks.
Zach has a website where he says "I’m a Christ-follower and seasoned digital marketing consultant and SEO strategist in Texas" (as of May 2024)
That may be someone else with the same name. This Zach that I interviewed passed away last year.
@@HarmonicAtheist I'm sorry to hear that. He seems like a great guy and very smart. Thanks for the interview. ❤
Wow! I am sorry a year has passed since I found this.
Thank you both for doing this!
It was amazing!!
What a brilliant person Zach Doty is!
Tim, did you ever have him on your channel again?
I was calvanist and dealt with pre-survivors guilt in a way.
I'm so sick of the names Hovind and Hamm that I wish the letter H could be removed from our alphabet!
Hello,
How has having a "H" handy hindered you ?
Has humble holy-roller Hovind hypnotized his flock of sheep hearts with humongus heaps of heavenly hubris ??
Ha ha. 🤡
Hard to resist hooking you up with a highlight
of " H" words.
Hi. Maybe just put a B in front and an e instead of d.........Bovine. That help any⁉️ 😳
Wow, according to my cognitive bias you guys are fantastic however I will withhold my final judgement in case of the remote chance of more information coming in that might change my mind.
Buckle up!
Really great interview. Big thank you.
This was a really good interview. Wow
An amazing conversation. Thank you both!
Hi Zach where in India have you been? I'm thinking of moving to Goa for a few months this coming October. Have you been there? If so what's it like? Thanks,. Jay
ACE stands for Accelerated Christian Education
Wow!! Too much knowledge and intelligence display. Thank you!
Whao ! Never heard this explained so deep . I believed this at onetime also . Not so deep even though I read the bible. And yes this is what I procived . I didn't even believe in dinasours. This was a great enterview. Thanks guys .
Just whao .
“I believed in the perspicuity of scripture”. Absolutely, me too, I though Scripture was, ah, really purple.
Hey, at least you're OPEN MINDED
Another great video Tim
Thanks, Debra!
I do not not want to be religious, but I just… don’t want to be an atheist :(
Thanks!
The Bahia faith teaches independent investigation of truth and to live in an ever-advancing civilization, no hell no divel
Science or religion which one is more factual? science of course amidst when it wrong
Could OCD have something to do with religiosity?
Love for these two bright men. If you are interested in AI best go back to understand linguistics. A large language model has to be about language. See Noam Chomsky.
See David Pikety for clear evidence around ending world hunger. I believe it is very much more clear that Elin Musk is not going to help us with much of anything.
Excellent show guys thank uou
words are the spell spelling words , they hijack our mind
“I was so inured to the suffering of the reprobate that it seemed good.” Wow. This guy has come a very long way. The Calvinist god is a psychopath.
Death is just a different set of conformations, combinations and energy states of the same basic particles that exist in life forms. These are recyclable as nutrients broken to simpler forms with the extraction and dissipation of energy.
It really has destroyed me people
Check out *"The Origins of Yahweh"* by Atheologica.
The fictional Abrahamic god of Judaism, Christianity and Islam.
You’ve been duped - HaShem, The G-D of Avraham, Yitzchak, and Ya’akov is *REAL*
Be really careful of those *Sacred Namers* we never 👎🏼 pronounce HaShem’s *NAME* out of *RESPECT* 😳
Harmonic Atheist, why are you giving this horrible comment, a *thumbs up* ⁉️
*SERIOUSLY* ⁉️🙄
@@shirleyannelindberg1692 Educate yourself. Your god is fictional. Wake up and join the 21st century my brainwashed friend. It's Hebrew mythology.
@@shirleyannelindberg1692
*Although the biblical narratives depict Yahweh as the sole creator god, lord of the universe, and god of the Israelites especially, initially he seems to have been Canaanite in origin and subordinate to the supreme god El.* Canaanite inscriptions mention a lesser god Yahweh and even the biblical Book of Deuteronomy stipulates that *“the Most High, El,* gave to the nations their inheritance” and that “Yahweh's portion is his people, Jacob and his allotted heritage” (32:8-9). A passage like this reflects the early beliefs of the Canaanites and Israelites in polytheism or, more accurately, henotheism (the belief in many gods with a focus on a single supreme deity). *The claim that Israel always only acknowledged one god is a later belief cast back on the early days of Israel's development in Canaan.*
*It is generally accepted in the modern day, however, that Yahweh originated in southern Canaan as a lesser god in the Canaanite pantheon* and the Shasu, as nomads, most likely acquired their worship of him during their time in the Levant.
*Yahweh in the Canaanite Pantheon*
The biblical narrative, however, is not as straightforward as it may seem as it also includes reference to the Canaanite god El whose name is directly referenced in `Israel' (He Who Struggles with God or He Who Perseveres with God). *El was the chief deity of the Canaanite pantheon and the god who, according to the Bible, gave Yahweh authority over the Israelites:*
When the *Most High [El]* gave to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of men, he fixed the bounds of the peoples according to the number of the Sons of God. For Yahweh's portion is his people, Jacob his allotted heritage. (Deuteronomy 32:8-9, Masoretic Text).
The Canaanites, like all ancient civilizations, worshipped many gods but chief among them was the sky-god El. *In this passage from Deuteronomy, El gives each of the gods authority over a segment of the people of earth and Yahweh is assigned to the Israelites who, in time, will make him their supreme and only deity; but it is clear he existed beforehand as a lesser Canaanite god.*
Yahweh, according to Amzallag, was transformed from one god among many to the supreme deity by the Israelites in the Iron Age (c.1200-930 BCE) when iron replaced bronze and the copper smelters, whose craft was seen as a kind of transformative magic, lost their unique status. *In this new age, the Israelites in Canaan sought to distance themselves from their neighbors in order to consolidate political and military strength and so elevated Yahweh above El as the supreme being and claimed him as their own.* His association with the forge, and with imagery of fire, smoke, and smiting, worked as well in describing a god of storms and war and so Yahweh's character changed from a deity of transformation to one of conquest.
*As the Israelites developed their community in Canaan, they sought to distance themselves from their neighbors and, as noted, elevated Yahweh above the traditional Canaanite supreme deity El.* They did not, however, embrace monotheism at this time. The Israelites remained a henotheistic people through the time of the Judges, which predates the rise of the monarchy, and throughout the time of the Kingdom of Israel (c.1080-c. 722).
Google *"Yahweh - **WorldHistory.Org.**"*
Watch Dr Christine Hayes at Yale University. Watch lecture 7 from 30:00 minutes onwards and lecture 8 from 12:00 to 19:00 minutes.
Google *"Jews and Arabs Descended from Canaanites - Biblical Archaeology Society."*
Google *"Canaanite Religion - New World Encyclopaedia."*
Google *"Canaanite Religion - **Realhistoryww.com**"*
Google *"Canaanite Phoenician Origin of the God of the Israelites."*
Google *"The Phoenician God Resheph in the Bible - Is That in the Bible?"*
Google *"God's Wife Edited Out of the Bible - Almost."*
Google *"Yahweh's Divorce from the Goddess Asherah in the Garden of Eden - Mythology Matters."*
Google *"Married Deities: Asherah and Yahweh in Early Israelite Religion - Yahweh Elohim."*
Google *"How the Jews Invented God and Made Him Great- Archaeology - Haaretz."*
Google *"The Invention of God - Maclean's"*
Google *"The Boundaries of the Nations - Yahweh Elohim."*
Google *"Excerpt from “Yahweh and the Gods and Goddesses of Canaan” by John Day - Lehi's Library."*
Google *"How Did the Bible’s Editors Conceal Evidence of Israelite Polytheism - Evolution of God by Robert Wright."*
Google *"A Theologically Revised Text: Deuteronomy 32:8-9 - Ancient Hebrew Poetry."*
Google *"Biblical Contradiction #3: Which God is the Creator of the Heavens and Earth: Yahweh or El?"*
Google *"Biblical Contradiction #27. Are Yahweh and El the Same God or Not?"*
Google *"Mark Smith: "Yahweh as El’s Son & Yahweh's Ascendancy - Lehi's Library."*
Google *"Quartz Hill School of Theology - B425 Ugarit and the Bible."*
Google *"The Origins of Yahweh and the Revived Kenite Hypothesis - Is That in the Bible?"*
Google *"Yahweh, god of metallurgy - Fewer Lacunae."*
Google *"Polytheistic Roots of Israelite Religion - Fewer Lacunae."*
Google *"Biblical Polytheism - Bob Seidensticker."*
Google *"Combat Myth: The Curious Story of Yahweh and the Gods Who Preceded Him - Bob Seidensticker."*
Google *"Religious Studies: El, Yahweh and the Development of Monotheism in Ancient Israel."*
Google *"Decoupling YHWH and El - Daniel O. McClellan."*
Google *"Yhwh, God of Edom - Daniel O. McClellan."*
Google *"The Most Heiser: Yahweh and Elyon in Psalm 82 and Deuteronomy 32 - Religion at the Margins"* based on the *majority scholarly consensus.*
This guy is kinda brilliant
Calvin doesn’t mention the theory of evolution because he predates it by 300 years!
Anyone got the faintest idea what this guys talking about at the beginning? I’m reasonably well educated but there’s a lot of isms here, one after the other
I'm baffled. Americans deconstructing is like a European telling you, "I've stopped believing in Santa". Yeah! So! Good for you. The amount of discussion of this topic is just hilarious.
All day. Every day.
But the 10 happiest countries in the world are also the least religious! Finland Norway Denmark the Netherlands Iceland Switzerland Sweden Iceland Canada New Zealand and Australia
For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son. This verse when carefully analysed would debunk belief in God. Inherint in it is the ultimate weakness of Christianity. Examine it and tell me if you agree with me.
don yuan said They gave us their Mind
Bro sounds like Peter Griffin sun
I was just about to say that -
Intimacy with god doesn't make sense to me. god wants a relationship with you. You don't get to decline. If you don't know god, you go to hell. And it is not enough to know about god. You must be intimate with him. It contradicts the gospel that I once believed. If I believe the facts about Jesus for one second, I know that I am going to heaven, even if I became the most immoral person. But then I am told that I might not be truly saved. And the sins that I must repent of include not praying. The one who demands relationship with a threat is a pedophile. Then I got a new revelation: the holy ghost is a pedophile. In the age of FJB, the holy ghost is stripped naked, and yet no one sees it but me and Jeffrey Daugherty. Trunanashabadepressure is Tongues. Christianity is communism. Sin is falling short of the quota. Matthew 5:30 is imperialism. With the assassination of Dave Chappelle underway, I can't unsee it. Christianity is part of the Woke-Tech Complex. "Without dignity there is no freedom". I can't breathe.
The Golden Rule. Love thy neighbor as thyself. What goes into your mouth is not as important as what comes out of your mouth. Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not steal. Thou shalt not bear false witness. Judeo-Christianity has some good ideas.
The Golden Rule is outdated. Do not treat me as you wish to be treated, because you will surely mistreat me in your ignorance.
Instead, strive for The Platinum Rule - treat others as they wish to be treated.
The golden rule predates the bible. None of the things stated in your comment are unigue
to the bible.
Jesus taught 2, not 10, not 12 "commandments" if you wish to follow his teaching which often contradicts the rest of the New Testament. The Old Testament is the Jewish book.
The moment a particle is a wave; it has to be a conscious wave!
Gravity is the conscious attraction among waves to create the illusion of particles,
and our experience-able Universe.
Max Planck states: "Consciousness is fundamental and matter is derived from Consciousness".
Life is the Infinite Consciousness, experiencing the Infinite Possibilities, Infinitely.
We are "It", experiencing our infinite possibilities in our finite moment.
Our job is to make it interesting!
not to mention a piece of crap
What?
Oh Oh I just detected a problem with your analysis Zach, I think you must mean a black line not a black and white line!! I might have to revaluated my cognitive bias about you after all.😉😉
He uses a lot of labels.
@Skydaddy Myth-Busters Well, what I wrote was a statement not an "argument" as you claimed. I liked the video. I do not understand how you can misconstrue a simple statement , ( based on observation not emotion ), and conclude that it says something that was never written or intended. What i see in what you wrote are just a lot of your own projections and nothing else.