I feel like Magic burst needs a nerf. Maybe you can't recover any MP for maybe 10 seconds after? More often than not, people use Magic burst, get a stock and have enough magic to get by in no time thanks to a hit or two.
@@nousername191 I mean hero without any MP is pretty helpless and you get invincibility after losing a stock, it's not too hard to punish him or just straight up kill him afterwards, especially since he needs MP for recouvery.
@@marche800 yeah people just love to complain. Most of the good characters in this game have like 1 or 2 broken moves that are pretty hard to deal with. People just gotta deal with it
@@charKT-7461 I mean, in Dragon Quest VIII, if you get Yangus, Angelo or Eight (the Hero represented in Smash) to 50 or 100 tension (which are what I'm assuming SSBU Psyche Up is based on) and then buff them with Oomph, whatever you hit is probably gonna die on the spot, unless it's like, a boss or a Metal Slime or something, so... At least the power of the buffs is accurate?
A few days ago i introduced him fo the characrer for the first time, and the first thing i did to him was oomph + pshych up + forward smash + crit for 88%
Psyche up + Oomph gives you 8 moves that instantly break full shields (not counting hatchet man which breaks shields before any buffs) F-smash (no charge required) U-smash (from under platforms, no charge required) D-smash (slightly charged, or if both hits land) F-tilt (if both hits connect) Flame Slash (all hitboxes) D-air (sweetspot only) B-air (sweetspot only) Dash attack One interesting thing to note is that critical hits on smash attacks do not increase shield damage, only shield stun and pushback to both characters.
13:08 Fun Fact: Hachet Man is actually an Ability, a different attack from Spells in the DQ games. What is even funnier is that Hachet Man can only be used by people wielding axes.
Also Flame Slash is an ability Lol most of the spells used by hero can't even be used by dq 11 hero aka luminary can't use. Magic burst is normally restricted to the female mage aka Veronica (Serena for some time) or Jessica Kamikaze while it is used by DQ 8 hero, the luminary does not have the spell. Luminary never learns Kaboom but he does learn the weaker variants bang/boom (also DQ 8 hero never learns any boom spells) Same with Frizz line of spells, luminary only learns the weaker variants but never Kafrizz. He also never learns woosh nor whack line of spells or any of the buffs like oomph or bounce. Psyche up however is a game mechanic only in DQ 8 although a different yet somewhat similar mechanic exists in DQ 11 called pep-up. Also Psyche up on DQ 8 also increases the power of spells. Lastily Hocus Pocus isn't even a spell lol, Hocus Pocus in DQ 11 is just random poses on the camera mode. (I don't remember about Sizz/Sizzle, but i think the luminary can only use the weaker variants aka sizz but never sizzle.) The only ones that are accurate to what the luminary uses is Flame Slash, entire Zap line of spells, Snooze, Kaclang, Metal Slash, Heal and Zoom. Kacrackle slash is actually a unique spell from smash. Most of the spells hero uses in smash can't even be used by him on the original game, talk about representation xD
it's kinda like how mario can use fireballs without the fire flower powerup in super smash bros, they do that so they can represent the series more, which is why they allowed hero to use some spells and abilities he otherwises wouldn't be able to use
@@sonicthehedge I know this is VERY late, and you probably don’t care anymore, but the Luminary from DQ11 *can* learn Kafrizz and Kasizz. However, Kafrizzle and Kasizzle, the strongest variants, are exclusive to Veronica.
That's the thing with big hitboxes: as long as the they match the visuals then they're mostly fine, still need to balance for things like frame data and knockback but there's more leeway there depending on the character's overall kit and other characteristics. But the hitbox should ALWAYS match the visuals and the visuals should ALWAYS match the hitbox. It's just frustrating and comes off as incompetence on the part of the developers when nothing actually visually connects, but the hitbox is just so big that someone is sent flying anyway (basically all the "fighting game character" movesets summarized). And on the flipside, when moves whiff despite there having been clear physical contact between both characters, with things like characters falling out of Falco's Usmash or Link's Ftilt not having a hitbox on half the sword during the first few frames of the attack - no seriously, the hitbox just stops right above the hilt as Link is swinging the sword overhead, and then the hitbox properly covers the sword as he finishes the move, meaning it'll just whiff on characters in the air or behind Link. That's why it was always stupid when people complained about Cloud's hitboxes in Smash 4. The character was definitely overtuned, but his hitboxes weren't the problem seeing as how they perfectly matched the sword excluding Bair - but most Bairs have exaggerated or lingering hitboxes anyway.
@@synysterdawn8913 i agree, i hate that Cloud's nair hitbox doesn't cover the whole sword like with every other character, and i'm not talking about his new tweaked animation were he doesn't extend his arm, that was an understandable nerf, but the attack went from amazing to mediocre because of the faulty hitbox
“I paid for this character, he better be busted” ~ Alpharad Edit: I love it when pretty stinky flame wars start in comments I made a year ago Edit 2: It just keeps going, all you can do now is add in more fuel Edit 3: Internet flame wars are beautiful. Two idiots start having an argument that literally makes no sense, take a time out, and then have an open mouth kiss. I think I stole that from a Nakey Jakey video but I don’t know where it came from or the exact quote, but it’s really good.
I see, that does make sense. The math didn't really add up when I thought about it afterwards. Guess I'll mend that when I talk about command select later.
It's impressive that Kacrackle Slash and Flame Slash are still almost useless anywhere but the ledge, considering how unbelievably massive they are. Such are the few mercies of Command Select.
It's honestly impressive how bad Hero is anywhere except in the lower tiers of Smash. He has a terrible disadvantaged state, his recovery is one of the most spike able in the game. His combo game might as well be non=existant, the time it takes to start his moves and also his ending lag is huge. The only time he gets to charge his fireball is in an advantaged state (he doesn't get to store any charge unless he completely charges it). His redeeming factors are when he is able to smash attack you at low percents, assuming you get a crit, getting lucky with down b at the ledge, or having a fireball at the ledge. All of Hero's disadvantages are massive and consistent, while all of his advantages are luck-based and even more massive. The hero is B tier normally, and S tier if you have a lot of luck with crits, and down b which I almost never use due to the insane likely-hood of me getting something bad/garbage for the situation, its almost always better to guard/attack without your down b because its so bad.
That's a full on tether though. Wouldn't Luigi be a better example? Seeing how his grab's only slightly slower than normal but gets half a tether's range to compensate.
Usually when jabs have a 180º hitboxes it can only hit people as to pull them in but not stuff like itens (so turtleshells won't come in your direction should you strike them)
Marcopolo Manjarrez Term works in most cases... I would say "Bang for the buck" is more applicable in this case. A potentially higher SKILL CAP is a theoretical difference (Sm4sh Bayos had to know their shit to make her busted in application)
Your videos are almost perfect, I just wish there was frame data somewhere in a corner for every move -- at least for whole animation length and frame window when hitboxes are active. Then they'd become S tier tech videos (they're already A+).
I noticed an error in this video: Hero’s critical hits don’t solely do double damage, they also have reduced base knockback (except for Up-Smash for some reason) and have reduced shield damage.
Reduced shield damage & knockback for equal damage they means. Due to it doing more damage the multipliers still send you farther/do more shield pressure. The discussion is centred around technicalities not the actual gameplay.
The hitboxes for Yoshi in general are quite large, but the thing that makes them feel kinda wonky to be hit with is how hitbox interpolation takes into account Yoshi's busted air speed. Basically hitboxes leave a smear of the previous frame and yoshi moves far between frames due to his air speed.
Smash mostly functions on the x and y axis, moving left right, up and down, but its technically a 3d game which has a z axis. and sometimes hitboxes or hurtboxes go backward into the background or forward into the foregrounx enough to dodge attacks on that axis
@@JUMO715 They're both very powerful but also cost Hero a lot to actually do. Kamikaze? A stock. Magic Burst? Your entire manapool, good luck getting that back before they just yeet you off the stage with a few attacks and watch you unable to recover.
Tommaso Rinaldi yeah the difference though is that you have to sweet spot Ridley's skewer to get that 50% it's a small laggy move that requires perfect positioning to get massive damage but 0 knockback. Kamikazee does 50% and covers a quarter of the screen and does huge knockback. In a situation where you are a stock up kamikazee is not a bad option where as Ridley's skewer is almost always a bad option. So by all definitions kamikazee is stronger than skewer it just has a harsher sacrifice, an entire stock vs punishability of skewer.
The first part is true, Hatchet Man is an ability. However it DOES take MP to use in most DQ games. Most abilities do. Hatchet Man doesn't cost as much as it does in Ultimate however.dragon-quest.org/wiki/Hatchet_Man
GeneralShyGuy7 oh I was thinking of another ability there I think (I’ve been playing dragon quest 8 a lot lately and most of yangus’s abilities kinda blended together in my mind)
@@IAm-zo1bo I agree, something must be done. Tho I can understand why some are weary of giving the competitive croud what they want, they can be quite the obnoxious mofos
Well you'll need to get a couple parts later to understand that MewTwo didn't actually *STOP* time he de[REDACTED] so, I hope that made enough sense without trying to spoil part[REDACTED]
I would love to see the hitboxes of rob! I really hope they made neutral b in a way that the hitbox could be visualized since I have people go through the full charge version super often. I would also especially love to see how in the world gyro's hitboxes work while spinning on the ground, and if possible where in the world the reflector is on side b since it seems less consistent then getting a crit with Hero.
I believe Kazap would also have a hitbox on the lightning bolt itself as it comes down during the first few frames, but seeing as there was no mention of it, I'm guessing it is a particle instead of a model.
Hatchet Man (Despite costing MP) isn't a spell in the DQ games, it's an ability only used by characters that wield axes (abilities and spells are separated). Why the non-axe wielding protagonists can use it is something I don't know. Out of the 4 represented I've only played the Luminary's game (XI, the one with the purple clothes, the "base" costume), and I'm like 95% sure he can't wield an axe. Flame, Kacrackle and Metal slash are also all abilities, except they make sense for a sword user.
It's just like Robin's nosferatu, he can't use it in his game with his class but they gave it to him in smash because it's iconic in some way and well known by the playerbase.
@@sirocco2810 But can't Robin swap classes to use Nosferstu? Also, Hatchet Man isn't super iconic tbh. There's actually a spear version called Thunder Thrust that works the exact same way. Hatchet man is cool though, I just wish there'd be some type of axe effect or outline, because non-DQ players might be like "Why is this called Hatchet man?" Also if they wanted to be super faithful and iconic, they'd give hero "Buff" which ups defense, but in hindsight, thank god they didn't looking at how good Oomph and Accelerattle are. I thought of an even cooler one too. Falcon Slash should've totally been in this game. It's super iconic, for being a double hit sword strike and for usually being the highest DPS option. It's so iconic, that there are weapons that are called "Falcoln Blades" that automatically strike twice without needing to use Falcon Slash.
Smash 456 Falcon slash has been in like every DQ game (at least every one I’ve played). I don’t think the same can be said for sword dance (could be wrong). Falcon slash is definitely more iconic.
While I love hitbox discussions, it aggravates me that almost every time you talk about a particular move, the gameplay that is spliced in doesn't have that move being shown off. It's not just this video when you talked about crackle slash, flame slash, kamikaze, and magic burst. But in the Dedede video as well. It's just a touch I think you could add to those videos to really bolster their appeal
For moves like those where a large part of the hitbox is visualized with particles it would also really help, magic burst for one looks more reasonable when you can actually see the burst.
6:50 I can't believe how smooth this pun was, and how well it works when there isn't any attention called to it (besides a few frames of text which are easy to miss). This is what humor should look like in videos.
"In a lot of cases with down smash hitboxes, the designers tend to place a hitbox or two close to the body of the character to make sure it does not whiff up close" Bowser Jr: "Am I a joke to you?" Do jr next!
Magic Burst: It doesnt kill you but it turns you from a magic wielding swordfighter, into a swordfighter (that can crit and has insane hitboxes) for a short time
Feel like this is underselling how bad it is to run out of MP as Hero. There's not a whole lot that Hero can do without MP. His only real out of shield option is Woosh, but that takes MP. His recovery options (Woosh, Swoosh, Kaswoosh, Zoom) all take MP. Without MP, this means he also fails at being the zoner he usually is. No Zap, no Frizz, no, well, anything other than Hero's pretty bad normals. It's like playing as Robin with all of his tomes broken at the same time.
Well, we can at least tell what side of the fence Rekzius is on. "It's DLC so it's broken." is the side he's on, if you couldn't infer that from the constant mention of anything large being "DLC" and him glossing over how most of hero's moves are fairly normal outside of like two major exceptions, and those exceptions have caveats anyways. Plenty of other characters have huge hitboxes but JUST because it's DLC, he'll get shit on. It's great knowing how quickly people will turn fickle and complain any time something isn't Melee Fox in this community, even though that's exactly what ruined Melee for most sane people.
Pixel Zed EX People adore fox though, his speed and versatility embodies everything that people love about melee. If anything it’s moreso jigglypuff and other floaty characters that people get upset about
Honestly, when Sakurai introduced Hero (before Waluigi commited a terrorist act), I was surprised when he revealed Eight's voice actor to be Meliodas' voice actor (Yuki Kaji).
Just... just hit him. He's absurdly slow. Just hit him. Keep hitting him and don't stop, and if he DOES get a chance to use the command menu, he's not going to read it and will probably die as a result. That said, Thwak, Whack and critical hits need their rates reduced. Period. You shouldn't be able to see someone kill with whack at 0.00%. you ever try using those instant kill spells in the game? They're mostly garbage. I do think it's fair enough to guarantee death at 100% or higher though.
Something tells me they originally were going to let FAir and BAir Have the ability to Random Crit, but decided against it at the last moment, but they forgot to make them come out faster (BAir especially).
Greninja has some interesting things with his counter, if you counter a projectile but the character to who it belongs is too far away to hit greninja just kinda rises a bit into the air, but that's only the horizontal variant, since you can actually counter from above or below your startig point too, depending on the control stick input
Sucks that Hero is so slow tho, brings down the whole character from being top tier imo. Also all of the really hard hitting specials like Neutral special and side b are extremely predictable. People need to stop complaining about how "Hero's broken" because he probably isn't even top tier.
@@superluigi1649 So do I. People just complain about his RNG and giant projectile hitboxes, and crits, but if you loo at his moves ans aerials, they're pretty wimpy.
8:57 Fun fact about the critical hit rate: In most Dragon Quest games the unmodified critical hit rate is 1/64; Hero is 8 times more likely to critical hit in Smash than in his own games.
I was spectating a battle with someone playing Hero while watching this, and a bit before you said that "what I am way less OK with, however is the fact that this move can randomly kill me at 40!" the person playing Hero got a crit. (lol)
I remember when we made memes about clouds up air that looked like magic bursts actual hitbox
So sad, but so true.
@Widdy SSBU There was a move that was more similar to it in DBZ.
The one that Vegeta used in the Majin arc.
@@dolphinboi-playmonsterranc9668 final explosion
Dolphinboi Kamikaze
Dolphinboi heat dome without the beam
Kamikazee and Magic Burst hitboxes tho, "That's quite big. Impressive."
I feel like Magic burst needs a nerf. Maybe you can't recover any MP for maybe 10 seconds after? More often than not, people use Magic burst, get a stock and have enough magic to get by in no time thanks to a hit or two.
It really does tho it covers every ledge option
@@nousername191 I mean hero without any MP is pretty helpless and you get invincibility after losing a stock, it's not too hard to punish him or just straight up kill him afterwards, especially since he needs MP for recouvery.
@@marche800 yeah people just love to complain. Most of the good characters in this game have like 1 or 2 broken moves that are pretty hard to deal with. People just gotta deal with it
@@joshybrb6251
Hatchetman Hitbox
"That's kinda small... Yikes."
If you have Psyche Up and you crit a smash attack, you'll normally:
-Break shields
-Deal 50+ damage
-*Kill at 0%*
Not to mention stacking Oomph on it.
@@charKT-7461 I mean, in Dragon Quest VIII, if you get Yangus, Angelo or Eight (the Hero represented in Smash) to 50 or 100 tension (which are what I'm assuming SSBU Psyche Up is based on) and then buff them with Oomph, whatever you hit is probably gonna die on the spot, unless it's like, a boss or a Metal Slime or something, so... At least the power of the buffs is accurate?
A few days ago i introduced him fo the characrer for the first time, and the first thing i did to him was oomph + pshych up + forward smash + crit for 88%
Psyche up + Oomph gives you 8 moves that instantly break full shields (not counting hatchet man which breaks shields before any buffs)
F-smash (no charge required)
U-smash (from under platforms, no charge required)
D-smash (slightly charged, or if both hits land)
F-tilt (if both hits connect)
Flame Slash (all hitboxes)
D-air (sweetspot only)
B-air (sweetspot only)
Dash attack
One interesting thing to note is that critical hits on smash attacks do not increase shield damage, only shield stun and pushback to both characters.
Psyche Up + Oomph + Fully Charged Critical Hit F-Smash = *116.1%* Instant K.O. at 0%
Shame we couldn't see snooze's hitbox. It seems like it's way bigger than the actual animation and always catches people trying to jump over it.
tbh to me it seems a bit like it's a somewhat square-y shape rather than a circle, due to how it seems to catch people. I may be wrong though.
It gets bigger the further it travels
It always gets you when you just so happen to try and go to ledge. So both you and your opponent get to watch you plummet like an idiot.
It's 200x bigger than jigglypuffs rest
@@juicecakes and 200x broken
13:08 Fun Fact: Hachet Man is actually an Ability, a different attack from Spells in the DQ games. What is even funnier is that Hachet Man can only be used by people wielding axes.
Also Flame Slash is an ability
Lol most of the spells used by hero can't even be used by dq 11 hero aka luminary can't use.
Magic burst is normally restricted to the female mage aka Veronica (Serena for some time) or Jessica
Kamikaze while it is used by DQ 8 hero, the luminary does not have the spell.
Luminary never learns Kaboom but he does learn the weaker variants bang/boom (also DQ 8 hero never learns any boom spells)
Same with Frizz line of spells, luminary only learns the weaker variants but never Kafrizz.
He also never learns woosh nor whack line of spells or any of the buffs like oomph or bounce. Psyche up however is a game mechanic only in DQ 8 although a different yet somewhat similar mechanic exists in DQ 11 called pep-up. Also Psyche up on DQ 8 also increases the power of spells.
Lastily Hocus Pocus isn't even a spell lol, Hocus Pocus in DQ 11 is just random poses on the camera mode.
(I don't remember about Sizz/Sizzle, but i think the luminary can only use the weaker variants aka sizz but never sizzle.)
The only ones that are accurate to what the luminary uses is Flame Slash, entire Zap line of spells, Snooze, Kaclang, Metal Slash, Heal and Zoom.
Kacrackle slash is actually a unique spell from smash.
Most of the spells hero uses in smash can't even be used by him on the original game, talk about representation xD
it's kinda like how mario can use fireballs without the fire flower powerup in super smash bros, they do that so they can represent the series more, which is why they allowed hero to use some spells and abilities he otherwises wouldn't be able to use
@@sonicthehedge I know this is VERY late, and you probably don’t care anymore, but the Luminary from DQ11 *can* learn Kafrizz and Kasizz. However, Kafrizzle and Kasizzle, the strongest variants, are exclusive to Veronica.
Crackacle and Flame Slash aren't that bad when you consider the particle effects match the hitboxes.
Unlike Ridley F Smash and Samus F Smash. I play those two so it's pretty annoying.
Lol
I was gonna say this
That's the thing with big hitboxes: as long as the they match the visuals then they're mostly fine, still need to balance for things like frame data and knockback but there's more leeway there depending on the character's overall kit and other characteristics. But the hitbox should ALWAYS match the visuals and the visuals should ALWAYS match the hitbox. It's just frustrating and comes off as incompetence on the part of the developers when nothing actually visually connects, but the hitbox is just so big that someone is sent flying anyway (basically all the "fighting game character" movesets summarized). And on the flipside, when moves whiff despite there having been clear physical contact between both characters, with things like characters falling out of Falco's Usmash or Link's Ftilt not having a hitbox on half the sword during the first few frames of the attack - no seriously, the hitbox just stops right above the hilt as Link is swinging the sword overhead, and then the hitbox properly covers the sword as he finishes the move, meaning it'll just whiff on characters in the air or behind Link.
That's why it was always stupid when people complained about Cloud's hitboxes in Smash 4. The character was definitely overtuned, but his hitboxes weren't the problem seeing as how they perfectly matched the sword excluding Bair - but most Bairs have exaggerated or lingering hitboxes anyway.
@@synysterdawn8913 i agree, i hate that Cloud's nair hitbox doesn't cover the whole sword like with every other character, and i'm not talking about his new tweaked animation were he doesn't extend his arm, that was an understandable nerf, but the attack went from amazing to mediocre because of the faulty hitbox
4:25
Ness : Its big brain time
Yooo 😂😂😂 Magic cancelling with Hero turns him into a different breed
“I paid for this character, he better be busted”
~ Alpharad
Edit: I love it when pretty stinky flame wars start in comments I made a year ago
Edit 2: It just keeps going, all you can do now is add in more fuel
Edit 3: Internet flame wars are beautiful. Two idiots start having an argument that literally makes no sense, take a time out, and then have an open mouth kiss. I think I stole that from a Nakey Jakey video but I don’t know where it came from or the exact quote, but it’s really good.
Heh
I’m starting to hate his predictions
You don't need a complicated prediction. Each DLC character is almost always stronger than the last.
@@stevethebarbarian9876
Banjo: *Jab causes banjo to perform Hero's Kamikazee*
@@stevethebarbarian9876 joker is better than hero tho.
"[Magic burst] actually hard to avoid"
Bowser: How cute.
Banjo-Kazooie: laughs in Wonderwing
Btw crit smashes actually cut base knockback roughly in half to compensate for the double damage (with the exception of up smash for some reason)
I see, that does make sense. The math didn't really add up when I thought about it afterwards. Guess I'll mend that when I talk about command select later.
invy so that’s why Luigi died at 18%
when did you become famous? don't know if you even slightly remember who I am xd
@@lizhard8157 idk about *famous*, and did we play one time or something
so crits make ur smash attacks useless
Nice.
Hero’s up air: “who needs swords with legs like these”
A visualization of Wii Fit's hitboxes would be awesome.
*cough cough Invy. Do it for our lovely*
And the title should be explaining wii fit’s wacky hit boxes
ass hitbox
ass hitbox
@@Ephlaght Did you know that Wii Fit also has a crotch hitbox on her forward air?
Pocket Healer
Amazing
Edit: wtf my message was changed.
Can't visualize what doesn't exist
It's impressive that Kacrackle Slash and Flame Slash are still almost useless anywhere but the ledge, considering how unbelievably massive they are. Such are the few mercies of Command Select.
They aren't useless if you're fast, you just have to be fast.
just top-deck the move
Julius Moran I love that people are calling it top-decking. It’s beyond accurate.
It's honestly impressive how bad Hero is anywhere except in the lower tiers of Smash. He has a terrible disadvantaged state, his recovery is one of the most spike able in the game. His combo game might as well be non=existant, the time it takes to start his moves and also his ending lag is huge. The only time he gets to charge his fireball is in an advantaged state (he doesn't get to store any charge unless he completely charges it). His redeeming factors are when he is able to smash attack you at low percents, assuming you get a crit, getting lucky with down b at the ledge, or having a fireball at the ledge.
All of Hero's disadvantages are massive and consistent, while all of his advantages are luck-based and even more massive. The hero is B tier normally, and S tier if you have a lot of luck with crits, and down b which I almost never use due to the insane likely-hood of me getting something bad/garbage for the situation, its almost always better to guard/attack without your down b because its so bad.
OnlyLFeris Haddock that’s not low tier dude, B is mid tier.
it's amazing how quickly people get hitbox data on this game! Keep up the good work
all they have to figure out how to do is actually figure out how to visualize 90% of projectile hitboxes
Looking at those hitboxes, I can't help but think of Jigglypuff's Rest and cry a bit.
Looking at Jigglypuff's airspeed, I can't help but look at anyone I main and cry a bit.
@@JonahDeroy
wario?
I feel your pain. Jigglypuffs rest needs like a bit more bigger to be in par with idk MAGIC BURST or KAMIKAZEE
Donut McDonut or maybe do what it supposed to; healing
Eevii very true. Since when did rest attack people?
"Cause is ultimate and no one gets to have good grab range"
Samus: am a a joke to you
That's a full on tether though. Wouldn't Luigi be a better example? Seeing how his grab's only slightly slower than normal but gets half a tether's range to compensate.
@@delta3244 but it has a lingering hitbox to compensate.... And also he has really strong throws to compensate.
@@jinception01 sorry, but what is the point you're trying to make? It flew right over my head.
She is for Sakurai at least. Not only he don't fix her up smash, but he nerfs it.
Snake says hi
Usually when jabs have a 180º hitboxes it can only hit people as to pull them in but not stuff like itens (so turtleshells won't come in your direction should you strike them)
So do you think the overlay-hitboxes could be to differentiate for items maybe?
@@JonahDeroy yes thats exactly right
Don’t koopa shells not care about knockback angles? I think it only cares about the direction you are attacking from
Dlc characters just have huge hitboxes because the designers wanna go home already😂
This comment is really ironic considering Nintendo is known for being loose on its employees hours.
@@veia5985 but what about sakurai
@@veia5985 Pretty sure, Nintendo as part of the Japanese society. Crunches all the time without complaints like the West does.
some people call this "pay to win"
Marcopolo Manjarrez Term works in most cases... I would say "Bang for the buck" is more applicable in this case. A potentially higher SKILL CAP is a theoretical difference (Sm4sh Bayos had to know their shit to make her busted in application)
Your videos are almost perfect, I just wish there was frame data somewhere in a corner for every move -- at least for whole animation length and frame window when hitboxes are active.
Then they'd become S tier tech videos (they're already A+).
6:49 and it even has a fair amount of active frames to *BOOT*
HAHA, GET IT
I'm sorry
I caught it, too. Thank you.
For some reason i saw a comment from a different video as your comment
@@IAm-zo1bo I had that bug too some time ago
I noticed an error in this video: Hero’s critical hits don’t solely do double damage, they also have reduced base knockback (except for Up-Smash for some reason) and have reduced shield damage.
...I've seen it do more shield damage though...
@@ZoofyZoof if I remember correctly, if you hit the two sour spots of down smash with a crit, you break shields.
Reduced shield damage & knockback for equal damage they means. Due to it doing more damage the multipliers still send you farther/do more shield pressure. The discussion is centred around technicalities not the actual gameplay.
Oh, that explains why I killed ZSS with an uncharged crit up smash at 30%
I'm gonna assume Up Smash is the exception because it's awful when it comes to hitbox size.
I would love to see yoshi's hitboxes, they seems crazy big and there's no visualization as yet on the net.
The hitboxes for Yoshi in general are quite large, but the thing that makes them feel kinda wonky to be hit with is how hitbox interpolation takes into account Yoshi's busted air speed. Basically hitboxes leave a smear of the previous frame and yoshi moves far between frames due to his air speed.
UltimateFrameData has hitboxes btw but they aren't scaled with the animations because yoshi be stretchy.
That up tilt could be an up smash it's so large.
Isnt it literally Joker's Up smash
GamxrLee XAO No ... no its not lmao
GamxrLee XAO you mean ganondorf
@@sonpham3438 also no
Hero’s up tilt honestly is good I like it.
QUESTION:
What if the overlay-hitboxes are there for the Z-axis, one of the most unaddressed problems in the game?
JonahDeroy what’s that?
Explain?
Smash mostly functions on the x and y axis, moving left right, up and down, but its technically a 3d game which has a z axis. and sometimes hitboxes or hurtboxes go backward into the background or forward into the foregrounx enough to dodge attacks on that axis
I was hoping that Kamikazee and Magic Burst would have visuals just to show everyone how damn ridiculous they are
With magic burst you can clearly see the hit box though
Just be at least 50ft away when they select the command
@@JUMO715 They're both very powerful but also cost Hero a lot to actually do. Kamikaze? A stock. Magic Burst? Your entire manapool, good luck getting that back before they just yeet you off the stage with a few attacks and watch you unable to recover.
@@krusher181 nd kamikaze
The Illustrator Magic Points*
Doctor: tell me the difference between these two options:
A: Luck
B: Skill
Hero mains: they are the same.
More i practice luckier i get bro
Corporate wants you to find the difference between these two photos.
*Luck*
*Skill*
Hero: They are the same photo.
Both Affect hit
@@YitzharVered i get it
How to butcher a meme 101
Rekzious: Kamikazee is so strong, it deals 50% damage!
Ridley's Down-B: ARE YOU CHALLENGING ME?
Incineroar's revenge: MWAHAHAHAHA,
AMATEURS!!
**shows 75% damage**
Tommaso Rinaldi yeah the difference though is that you have to sweet spot Ridley's skewer to get that 50% it's a small laggy move that requires perfect positioning to get massive damage but 0 knockback. Kamikazee does 50% and covers a quarter of the screen and does huge knockback. In a situation where you are a stock up kamikazee is not a bad option where as Ridley's skewer is almost always a bad option. So by all definitions kamikazee is stronger than skewer it just has a harsher sacrifice, an entire stock vs punishability of skewer.
@@raysay1818 At least Ridley can consistently use Skewer
At least Ridley can survive.
@@raysay1818 yeah and kamikaze is easly readable and cost you your entire stock
“I feel this won’t be the last one of these hit boxes we’ll see”
Proceeds to use magic bounce in background
Hatchet man isn’t actually a spell, it is a ability in the dragon quest games for ax users and it doesn’t cost mana in the game
The first part is true, Hatchet Man is an ability. However it DOES take MP to use in most DQ games. Most abilities do. Hatchet Man doesn't cost as much as it does in Ultimate however.dragon-quest.org/wiki/Hatchet_Man
GeneralShyGuy7 oh I was thinking of another ability there I think (I’ve been playing dragon quest 8 a lot lately and most of yangus’s abilities kinda blended together in my mind)
Competitively the hero is a mess but casually the hero can be a lot of fun
Then banning hero is a good thing right? Some people act like that will ban him from the game itself
@@IAm-zo1bo I agree, something must be done. Tho I can understand why some are weary of giving the competitive croud what they want, they can be quite the obnoxious mofos
Hero never got banned worldwide so good. 💯
How did Mewtwo stop time at 5:20?
Where can I learn to do that? I watched Stardust Crusaders and it hasn't helped :(
Well you'll need to get a couple parts later to understand that MewTwo didn't actually *STOP* time he de[REDACTED] so, I hope that made enough sense without trying to spoil part[REDACTED]
KINGU CRIMSON
@@CaptainCFalcon KING CRIMSON
@ KILLER QUEEN, DAIZAN NO BAKUDAN, BITES ZA DUSTO
Yes, it's amazing what video cropping can do these days.
I can't believe they gave Ivysaur Dair hitbox to another character with Kamikaze
I would love to see the hitboxes of rob! I really hope they made neutral b in a way that the hitbox could be visualized since I have people go through the full charge version super often. I would also especially love to see how in the world gyro's hitboxes work while spinning on the ground, and if possible where in the world the reflector is on side b since it seems less consistent then getting a crit with Hero.
5:37 is Hero in a nutshell
I believe Kazap would also have a hitbox on the lightning bolt itself as it comes down during the first few frames, but seeing as there was no mention of it, I'm guessing it is a particle instead of a model.
It does have a hitbox
The bolt that comes down is even reflect-able, like Pikachu/Pichu's down-B
"This is Ultimate and nobody gets to have good grab range"
*Laughs in Samus*
Samus is bad though, her laggy but long grab range is one of the few things about her that's not garbage about her. :P
Linguine
Seeing Marth's hitboxes would be nice!
Hatchet Man (Despite costing MP) isn't a spell in the DQ games, it's an ability only used by characters that wield axes (abilities and spells are separated). Why the non-axe wielding protagonists can use it is something I don't know. Out of the 4 represented I've only played the Luminary's game (XI, the one with the purple clothes, the "base" costume), and I'm like 95% sure he can't wield an axe. Flame, Kacrackle and Metal slash are also all abilities, except they make sense for a sword user.
It's just like Robin's nosferatu, he can't use it in his game with his class but they gave it to him in smash because it's iconic in some way and well known by the playerbase.
@@sirocco2810 But can't Robin swap classes to use Nosferstu? Also, Hatchet Man isn't super iconic tbh. There's actually a spear version called Thunder Thrust that works the exact same way. Hatchet man is cool though, I just wish there'd be some type of axe effect or outline, because non-DQ players might be like "Why is this called Hatchet man?"
Also if they wanted to be super faithful and iconic, they'd give hero "Buff" which ups defense, but in hindsight, thank god they didn't looking at how good Oomph and Accelerattle are.
I thought of an even cooler one too. Falcon Slash should've totally been in this game. It's super iconic, for being a double hit sword strike and for usually being the highest DPS option. It's so iconic, that there are weapons that are called "Falcoln Blades" that automatically strike twice without needing to use Falcon Slash.
Smash 456 Falcon slash has been in like every DQ game (at least every one I’ve played). I don’t think the same can be said for sword dance (could be wrong). Falcon slash is definitely more iconic.
We need marth’s hitboxes visualized
Indeed.
Tip good rest bad.
There.
@@sirocco2810 Tip good, middle is just Lucina, hilt terrible.
Grab was once multidimensional.
Me: What are Hero’s hitboxes?
Hero: Yes
Please leave the hit box on the screen. 60% of the video is just random gameplay.
Thanks for the video and this may be obscure but can you do Mii Gunner's hitboxes please?
“It’s ultimate and no one gets to have a good grab range”
Min-Min: hold my ramen
"The world's smallest sourspot"
"Look how cute it is"
6:48-6:52 "to boot" when talking about U-air, nice pun
5:20
Anyone else notice the weird visuals around here?
*Za Warudo*
It's called video cropping. Not to kill the JoJo reference, but...
NO! NO! NO NO!
While I love hitbox discussions, it aggravates me that almost every time you talk about a particular move, the gameplay that is spliced in doesn't have that move being shown off. It's not just this video when you talked about crackle slash, flame slash, kamikaze, and magic burst. But in the Dedede video as well. It's just a touch I think you could add to those videos to really bolster their appeal
For moves like those where a large part of the hitbox is visualized with particles it would also really help, magic burst for one looks more reasonable when you can actually see the burst.
Killed my friend with a crit oomph forward smash at zero
Crit can activate on shields, so you can one shot shields with Oomph of you get a Crit
@@dmwanderer9454 you do realize that crits don't do more shield damage, only more shield stun
@@mightykid9581 Well an Oomph Fsmash isnt enough to break a full shield in one hit, yet I did it before so I'm sure Crits do more shield damage.
@@mightykid9581 they indeed do more shield damage
@@kirbstomp3945 they dont, I've tested it a bunch. Crits on shield are only more shield stun
6:50 I can't believe how smooth this pun was, and how well it works when there isn't any attention called to it (besides a few frames of text which are easy to miss). This is what humor should look like in videos.
"In a lot of cases with down smash hitboxes, the designers tend to place a hitbox or two close to the body of the character to make sure it does not whiff up close"
Bowser Jr: "Am I a joke to you?"
Do jr next!
Kakrackle Slash: hm, yes, the air here is made out of sword
Magic Burst: It doesnt kill you but it turns you from a magic wielding swordfighter, into a swordfighter (that can crit and has insane hitboxes) for a short time
Feel like this is underselling how bad it is to run out of MP as Hero. There's not a whole lot that Hero can do without MP. His only real out of shield option is Woosh, but that takes MP. His recovery options (Woosh, Swoosh, Kaswoosh, Zoom) all take MP. Without MP, this means he also fails at being the zoner he usually is. No Zap, no Frizz, no, well, anything other than Hero's pretty bad normals. It's like playing as Robin with all of his tomes broken at the same time.
he might have some good hitboxes but he can't follow up on landing them considering it takes a millennia for the moves to end
4:06 Now I see why Hero's U-Tilt is so good.
I would like to see the meganerfed Bayo hitboxes.
Dee EX They’re bad trust me, for example, upb literally doesn’t hit people behind her, no matter how close they are
:c
4:24 thats a bruh moment right there :)
humble request for Bowser hitboxes since you spent most of the video fighting him :)
Good analysis! I think his uncharged side special has a different hitbox even when hero has no MP
Zelda's hitboxes can be 'whack', why not her next?
Nice vid bro. If you have time, i want some tips on Zero Suit Samus. This figther is so fast to realy learn hitboxes.
I was kinda hoping to see Thwack's Hitbox. I've seen some really sketchy hits from that and wanted to see how bit it really was.
Remember when Ivysaur's dair had Magic Burst's hitbox?
10:10 "I'd say that hitbox is pretty straight-forward"
AYYYYYYYYYY
Jigglypuff's hitboxes would be great to see. No one has done it for ultimate yet to my knowledge
I see you’re a man of true taste since you use the Dragon Quest 4 Hero (Solo).
Well, we can at least tell what side of the fence Rekzius is on.
"It's DLC so it's broken." is the side he's on, if you couldn't infer that from the constant mention of anything large being "DLC" and him glossing over how most of hero's moves are fairly normal outside of like two major exceptions, and those exceptions have caveats anyways.
Plenty of other characters have huge hitboxes but JUST because it's DLC, he'll get shit on. It's great knowing how quickly people will turn fickle and complain any time something isn't Melee Fox in this community, even though that's exactly what ruined Melee for most sane people.
Pixel Zed EX People adore fox though, his speed and versatility embodies everything that people love about melee. If anything it’s moreso jigglypuff and other floaty characters that people get upset about
I hope to see a video where we get to see some of Sonic's hitboxes.
I killed someone at 0% on Find Mii with no buffs off the right side with a crit, took them straight to 55 and into the blast zone (it was Corrin).
“I doubt you’ll hit it outside of a shield break” Hero: hold my mana
6:50 "...and [u-air] even has a fair amount of active frames to *boot*"
I'm onto you.
5:09 “and I have a feeling this is not the last we’ll see of these hitboxes.”
*Magic Burst onscreen*
I would love to see a vid on Greninja's hitboxes. There are so many times Fair and Fsmash miss for no good reason
nice alliteration
Good on you for covering Hero.
The only hit box we care about is jokers counter lol
True
Kacrackle Slash and Flame Slash are _supposed_ to have a wide range.
in spanish kaclang is "metalizacion" and Oomph is "mentalizacion"
btw can we get a Wario hitbox analisis?
As a native Spanish speaker myself, I can confirm that even I go through this hell when playing as Hero in Spanish.
@@Benado elige rápido max.jpg
Honestly, when Sakurai introduced Hero (before Waluigi commited a terrorist act), I was surprised when he revealed Eight's voice actor to be Meliodas' voice actor (Yuki Kaji).
I'd love to see a R.O.B. video soon:-)
I'll probably be the only one to request this but I think Mii Gunner's hitboxes deserve to be visualized considering how bad some are
Mii gunner smash attacks are supreme 👌
D air.
Just remember Sakurai doesn't want you to avoid Kamikaze.
Just... just hit him. He's absurdly slow. Just hit him. Keep hitting him and don't stop, and if he DOES get a chance to use the command menu, he's not going to read it and will probably die as a result. That said, Thwak, Whack and critical hits need their rates reduced. Period. You shouldn't be able to see someone kill with whack at 0.00%. you ever try using those instant kill spells in the game? They're mostly garbage. I do think it's fair enough to guarantee death at 100% or higher though.
Salty much jeez. If they were going to nerf something thing they should nerf his side special.
these hitboxes feel like hero hitboxes. Completely random and incomprehensible, yet strangely hilarious
Good vid, how about incineroars hitboxs next. Many people still don't get darkest lariants hitboxs.
Turnaround grab has more range?
...
Noted 😎
It does for basically every character.
@@mitrimind1027 noted 😉
You should see Bowser's turn around grab. I seen it literally grab people behind him, it's so stupid.
Thank you for the video! All of you friends are super awesome! Oh, moments in this video are sad.
Something tells me they originally were going to let FAir and BAir Have the ability to Random Crit, but decided against it at the last moment, but they forgot to make them come out faster (BAir especially).
bigger than ivysaur dair
8:25 With Ganondorf they always kill at 40.
I kind of want to see how bad marth tipper hit box is in ult
Greninja has some interesting things with his counter, if you counter a projectile but the character to who it belongs is too far away to hit greninja just kinda rises a bit into the air, but that's only the horizontal variant, since you can actually counter from above or below your startig point too, depending on the control stick input
Sucks that Hero is so slow tho, brings down the whole character from being top tier imo. Also all of the really hard hitting specials like Neutral special and side b are extremely predictable. People need to stop complaining about how "Hero's broken" because he probably isn't even top tier.
He needs to be slow to prevent him being top-tier.
Nimbus Snowshade exactly. I think they balanced him well by making him slow.
@@superluigi1649 So do I. People just complain about his RNG and giant projectile hitboxes, and crits, but if you loo at his moves ans aerials, they're pretty wimpy.
11:34: exists
Patrick: Well maybe it is stupid, but it's also dumb!
this is going to be a similar thing to krool
Hero is SUPER easy against newbs, but isnt really that good
8:57 Fun fact about the critical hit rate: In most Dragon Quest games the unmodified critical hit rate is 1/64; Hero is 8 times more likely to critical hit in Smash than in his own games.
Crits would be way more hype if they were that rare
I'm honestly surprised Sakurai didn't make it one in 64. His smash attacks are fine as they are. That would just be cool and more accurate
I have reason to think this needs an up to date version, because his hitboxes feel like they got quite a bit...smaller since then.
I was spectating a battle with someone playing Hero while watching this, and a bit before you said that "what I am way less OK with, however is the fact that this move can randomly kill me at 40!" the person playing Hero got a crit. (lol)
In a type of game where camping the opponent is beneficial, this character has it all.
4:02 hey I just noticed the multiple fireballs there! Neat! Looks just like frizzle!
All I can say for Kamikaze's hitbox is that it better be massive if you are going to Majin Vegeta yourself into the next dimension.