Piracy is preservation The film Industry proved that. Thousands of movies would be lost of somebody hadn't kept a film reel they weren't supposed to. Now we're seeing it with Video thankfully faster than with film. Video game history is far better preserved than film because of community efforts.
Been playing so many old games recently across PC/Consoles. It's a shame the lengths we need to go to preserve history and then make sure the games out today are playable for generations to come.
Indeed it is a shame. No one should have to spend 100$+ just to play an older game. All its doing is gate keeping good games from new players who may enjoy them.
You already know Muda if we all started playing good games again then the market for the current crap they push would die. We would all have a mid level PC and some 8bitdo controllers or whatever. We're at the point where if a good game doesn't hold up with time passing, people just mod it and bring it back to life.
as a kid my computer was insanely weak so i spent a lot of time playing stuff like Half-Life and emulating n64 games and before. The free discovery of old media should be preserved for the future generations. if we can have libraries for books, films, and music, why can we not have the same for video games? Ultimately, I believe the issue is with the profit and the popularity of the medium today. Until the industry crashes or higher ups leave, nothing will change.
If the concept of a library was created today instead of being established centuries ago, publishers of books would fight tooth and nail to make sure that it could never happen.
"Pay a monthly fee for the privelege of entering the library even if nothing interests you. Oh and thats on top of buying individual books that you'll ofc get no discount on nor be allowed to keep despite no refunds when we burn the books."
@@Maximilian1990 where? I’ve never once heard of a library that wasn’t a public library. You have late fees and have to pay to replace something you lose, but otherwise they’re completely free.
This is DarkMoe from Flashpoint Archive. For years I think I managed to save some lost to time games. In the end it's always about time and effort. In the case of modern online releases you also have to add the storage for it. Imagine saving multiple builds for example of games like League of Legends. That's a ton of space. And personal backups tend to get lost overtime. I know firsthand with HD crashes, or misplaced stuff
Don't ask, just save it locally. Everyone backup on someone's drive, is another puzzle piece in the archaeology chain. We need to keep history alive by preserving the digital footprint of our world.
That is why I am thankful for Polish Copyright Laws which states that a medium is legal to download as long as it is not used commercially unless specified
Ok my comment went into the, not interesting abyss. Is there a limit to it? I mean keys and, i try to use different words so my comment does not disappear 😂 , a fixed .exe file wich you aren't allowed to use? My other comment is there bit only visible when you click on new comments and search for it.
PS3 CFW is 2x better than the PS5 pro that worst when is only has 256 MB VS 16GB ram that likey none are free to use for old gen games Power system that can't even play older game means is older than the PS3 would been yet PS1 - Supports HDMI by 3rd party PS2 - Most loved still has it at home ( Modded of curse ) PS3 Slim - Nice try sony im not buying the PS5 pro as it an older system than is baby one from years ago
He's not though... The first video game was released in 1958. Even discounting Tennis for Two, the first arcade game was released in 1971, making it 53 years old.
@doniarts That's a issue of torrent unfortunately, because i saw a lot of niche torrent that are not usable due to the owner never seed the torrent ever again.
Digimon World (PS1) is a game I find myself coming back to time and again, for the past 24 years. There’s still a bit of a community that still plays, mods and live-streams the game (it seems to have gotten more attention overall recently). That’s a game that, given its lack of broad popularity, outright would no longer exist without emulation.
DW2 for me, and the systems that could play it are rapidly failing due to nothing more than age. PSX was a godsend for being able to play it in the modern day.
The only reason i was ever able to complete Digimon World is because of emulation. The PAL version had an infamous bug that would render the game impossible to finish. Thankfully, there is now a community patch that corrects it, but all CD print are forever broken.
2:38 oh hey I created this online list, thanks for featuring it! for context, the numbers shown are releases worldwide so the Virtual Console numbers are including regional exclusives such as MSX games on Wii and Wii U in Japan I've been attempting to keep track of the statistics of NSO releases in an effort to better illustrate what the service currently contains in its software library, I hope to continue this project especially when the Switch successor comes out
Which the PS5 pro claims is has backwards compatible where is lacks is older gens which meaning is just to run Last gens games not on his 30th day which is only counts to 11th when you match PS4 lunchday to the PS5 pro and you see 30th is not right
Or if an old game was released on multiple platforms and the publisher takes down the OG builds - now, the only one you can have is some jankfest based off the crummy mobile port. The legendary OG releases are lost to history. GTA says hi. Things like cloud gaming also only have the bleeding edge build, so you can't even play GTA V as it was intended at launch. You need to find an original disc and keep your console offline to ensure it doesn't update. I also downloaded the "HITMAN Collection" off Xbox Live - except it was just HITMAN 3 with the mission packs. That's a totally different experience to the original game because HITMAN 3 gutted the mechanics and revamped the missions so they don't look, feel, or play like the originals.
Remasters/re-releases are strongly encouraged though, enabling older titles to be played on modern hardware is undeniably a a good thing, much better than the plague that are remakes
Biggest problem with remakes/re-masters is that most of them are fucked around with. Adding in pointless censorship or removing features outright. They just can't help themselves.
2 words: fool's errand 😂. I guess that antstream arcade subscription isn't good enough for ya. People are also paranoid like steam is gonna wipe their accounts.
Needs to be a law that games become abandonware after 10 years without being on sale and the original publisher loses the copyright and it becomes public domain. If they want to retain it then they must make it available for sale.
copyright maybe to the game itself, but for the characters, i don't think so. The game should become abandonware for sure. Let's say Zelda minishcap that has been re-released all the time for virtual consoles so that would make sense it wouldn't be abandonware, but let's say super Mario land 2, that was released on 1993 and then re-released on 3DS virtual console on 2011 (on korea 2016) and then again on switch online on 2023. That game, should have lost its rights for sure on 1993-2011. So when people emulated that game, they should have had all the rights to do so. That wouldn't affect their sales that much if they released the game for 3-5 € on 3DS, since the consoles are always closed unique systems, so of course people will still buy the games on them.
Touhou 1-5 is a good example of this. Original releases of around 100 copies on floppy discs for the Japanese PC98. That's a whole lot of impossible unless somebody has already done the work of ripping it for you.
Ngl as a Touhou fan myself, I wouldn't have been able to ever play these without dumped roms and an emulator. I can't afford paying thousands of dollars for the original carts + some old Japanese PC I can't even read nor understand what it says. Good games by the way, and I also appreciate the fan made English patches of them.
I was born in 2001, years after some of my favorite video games. Emulation and videos of people using it helped me a lot for discovering many titles. It would suck hard for future generations to get stuck with whatever games publishers think are worth buying (or renting...), and nothing else.
Sega actually deserves some credit on this front, because believe it or not, they actually sell honest to goodness ROMs on Steam that come bundled with an emulator, and even if that's not to your satisfaction, you can just take the ROM file and load into any emulator you prefer. With emulator development being so vast for all platforms, it would be easy for any and all publishers to simply open up their coffers and sell ROMs they own for use with existing emulators and games could be saved for practically zero effort on their part.
That was good while it lasted, but they seem to be shifting away from that model; like how the classic Sonic quadrilogy was entirely delisted for Origins's release, making it impossible to legally acquire the ROMs and briefly making mods like S3AIR unplayable
@@SyphistPrimewe are all saying this without know the amount of revenu they made on these roms... if the amount was low, maybe us, consumers, arent rewarding enough companies that actually make an effort.
@@ct2651 I literally bought the complete set to reward this behavior. I've also bought the mobile ports of Sonic 1 and 2, even though I use decompiled versions for better ease of use. I'm doing what I can to show my support for SEGA doing this, but I am only 1 person. Before the delisting I even encouraged people to buy the ROMs officially as it was the only ROMs you could legally purchase. I tried to do my part to encourage this kind of behavior from companies. That said, if another company were to do such a release and provide the ROM or ROMs for personal use I would buy it, even if I'm not really interested in the game. Why? Because it's genuinely a practice I believe in and rewarding it is worth my money, even if I don't end up getting anything out of the game.
This topic doesn't apply to just video games, it applies to EVERYTHING. Old quality and spirit is gone, replaced by an endless lust for money, power, and influence. Just look at how cheaply made today's products are. When all people care about is themselves and money we end up in a society like this.
one day we will own nothing and we be happy... is a phrase that keeps popping up in my head with all the crap going on in the world and the consumers....
I currently am working on an emulator for Java Feature Phones and it is a huge undertaking considering the large number of phones available and all of the various different APIs available. But gosh your points on research is definitely true, digging into so many ancient books, old search results, etc. soo much knowledge is needed and cross-knowledge too. It sucks because to the end user they often do not see the amount of research that is needed to write an emulator which is really draining when someone who really has no idea pops in and complains about how slow emulation development is, which is really common.
Those of us who can help preserve video games must take action. It is up to us to ensure that we do not move from Lost Media to the archaeology of certain video games.
I would say "right to repair" is in the same boat. Companies they say they support it, but make repairs harder or remove features if it was repaired by yourself or a 3rd party.
(I don’t know if I’m just rambling on here so bear with me.) This is most likely a problem thatwill be a continues fight that will outlive us and the generations to come for the rest of humanity’s life. My question is will future generations of gamers continue to preserve or even remember how to preserve our generations of games which is basically the very beginning of gaming. I hope in the future they will allow all the games to be in the public domain sooner or later than risk being forgotten or it will just live in the history books alone if it is recorded that is. One for example I know is with some of the early doctor who series the bbc didn’t see the importance of preserving any of the programs until it was too late we lost a lot of it but some were preserved.
Abandoned software and hardware should be considered just that. It's exceptionally frustrating that publishers want to lock things they are no longer interested in selling in the past. I understand that there are licensing issues with music publishers or automobile manufacturers to consider, but that should really only apply to games that are still being sold as new in some sort of retail marketplace.
The most frustrating thing is that we had the same before with silent movies. In the 1930's people wanted sound movies, so studios stored away or in some cases even destroyed their old catalogue of silent films because it didn't make money. Originally copyright was intended to protect artists and creatives, now that entertainment has become an industry it's a motivation for some executives to destroy the hard work of hundreds of actually creative people because their calculation says it's the most profitable decision.
aaaw the license expired??? So we shall shift+DEL that Ferari and just drive lambos. Kool. Ooh the license for the song expired?? Well, okay. We wont pay the artist anymore as we delete the track from our game and push a 3.45Mb update to finish it off. WHY IS LICENSING STILL A PROBLEM?? Devs cant find DEL button?? Guys.... your sleeping. Pay attention.
@@Maximilian1990So it's okay for companies to fully control culture and art just because it's in the form of software also how does the big d of the billion dollar companies feel in your holes.
@@Maximilian1990"The software we last touched in 2001 and have no idea how to build anymore isn't abandoned, it's just... on hold." It's so bad that e.g. Rockstar had to resort to pirated versions of their old games just to able to release them on Steam.
I just played a game that turned 20 years old today for its birthday, Ratchet and Clank 3; brought back online by some of the best of humanity. It's up to us, they sure as hell won't do it.
1 things for sure... it's time to start investing on a 4TB hard drive for Retro games. (2TB if you only play stuff before the PS1 era)... Just know....(Caution: may not be exact) Atari 2600: Total set size: 3 Mb Master System: Total set size: 73 Mb Sega Game Gear: Total set size: 59.5 Mb Sega Genesis: Total set size: 1 Gb Sega Saturn: Total set size: 82.5 Gb Sega Dreamcast: Total set size: 300 Gb NES: Total set size: 237 Mb SNES: Total set size: 1.7 Gb N64: Total set size: 5.5 Gb Gamecube: Total set size: 867 Gb PS1: Total set size: 3.722 Tb PS2: Total set size: over 18 Tb GB/GBC: Total set size: 568 Mb GBA: Total set size: 8.4 Gb DS: Total set size: 83.2 Gb Neo Geo AES: Total set size: 3.83 Gb Neo Geo Pocket: Total set size: 383 Mb
You call it piracy, I call it preservation. You call it illegal, I call it abandonware. Most games get abandoneed and lost to time until game companies see value in an IP again. Emulation for many is not just a last resort , but a necesity to preserve past works. Preservation is up to us now.
@@Maximilian1990 @rhindlethered From Wikipedia: Some game developers showed sympathy for abandonware websites as they preserve their classical game titles. "Is it piracy? Yeah, sure. But so what? Most of the game makers aren't living off the revenue from those old games anymore. Most of the creative teams behind all those games have long since left the companies that published them, so there's no way the people who deserve to are still making royalties off them. So go ahead-steal this game! Spread the love!" - Tim Schafer
@@brannycedeno6823People pirate games not because they don't want to pay for the game but because the experience you get with the official version on official hardware is worse. I bought xenoblade x but I've dumped the game and only play it on cemu now because it has a higher resolution, cheats to bypass online requirements for some content, allows the removal of more HUD elements, FOV options, free cam, ect.
I know that there is an "almost always" so this could certainly be am outlier, but Thor from Pirate Software talked about how he prices his games cheaper in areas of the world (Brazil was mentioned specifically) that have lower wages and he said that for the one game he was talking about, Brazil (known for their piracy) was the country he got most of his revenue (or maybe sales) from. So, I believe Gabe that a service problem exists that makes piracy so much easier, but also, I mean, we could all buy these old games for $100-$500 so, I think there is a pricing problem, too.
@@brannycedeno6823The experience you get from piracy is often better than playing the official game on official hardware. For example, I bought xenoblade x but dumped it to cemu because then it can be played with higher resolution, updated lighting, cheats to let you play online only content, more HUD options, wider FOV, freecam, ect
@@RupeeRhod this is where i believe that fine line should be.... we should have access to that rom ONCE its at its EOL service... once its not supported we should have access that way it satisfies both parties...and if the companies don't like it....boohoo. that's like the EPA with cracking down on people owning older vehicles...they don't want us to keep older vehicles running even though they and we know that they last longer and don't need a brand new 50K commuter car....
@@CrazyChiefXxX You are talking apples and oranges. The EPA trying to make it harder to own older cars is government overreach, telling us what we can and can't do with the things we own. Forcing companies to allow you to have a game just because it's for an older system is *also* government overreach, telling us what we can and can't do with the things we own. The only difference is when it comes to old games, you're the one who wants the government to overreach on your behalf.
2:55 not enough people consider this; not everyone was born at the exact age to start having disposable income for every game generation, nor could they predict what games will and won’t be popular or rare in the future. Back in 2012, no one thought that the Yakuza series would blow up in popularity in 5 years when the then-new Dead Souls was released, or that that game would be $100+ USD in the future
I was around, I just didn't have the purchasing power because my income was low. Nintendo could have circumvented this issue by actually heavily discounting old games on the estore, especially as it was closing down. Instead it kept most of them at full price and just shut it down. Their loss as much as mine, because I didn't give Nintendo a dime.
Yeah exactly. Im getting tired of the whole "Well you should have just bought it while you had the chance" when not everyone could have done that at the time.
yeah sorry for not buying gamecube games in like 2005 instead of going to daycare lmao i did manage to get gale of darkness at some random yard sale when i was 11
100% agreed. i hate they way the ruined a small game not alot of people know about ...Trackmania...been playing it for years even back on winXp. then they ruined the latest installment with paywall BS.
They should get quite comfortable with bankruptcy. I never pirated their games, but now I won't even bother with that. You can't even compare AC Origins with Valhalla. One is a world built with care and love, another is an unfinished smashing heads with an axe simulator. AC Mirage does not even qualify, a total joke.
Copyright should work like trademarks: once you stop exercising your rights for a fixed time period, you lose it. That way Disney won't oppose it, but the problem of abandonware is fixed.
They'll just loophole it somehow and then really make copyright infinite. The proper solution is to make copyright much shorter. Things will get preserved and companies will be forced to make new things to earn money instead of attempting to endlessly profit off the old.
I'm 49. My journey started upon finding my uncle's Sears Pong console in the closet. I've never looked back. ALL hardware and physical formats will eventually fail. The art that has been created over the last 50+ years deserves to be preserved just like music & cinema. If I have to sail the seven seas in order to enjoy that art, then so be it!
One Anti-Piracy ad I remember seeing for Movies, was if you (the customer) don't pay, we (the company selling it) won't be able to produce NEW BETTER movies due to lack of funds. Well my problems with that are A. New DOES NOT necessarily equal BETTER B. If no new movies were ever made starting from today, no individual would be able to watch ALL the current movies available in their lifetime.
You should talk to Ross. And funny ain't it, the Government AND the Companies themselves can't compare to the dedicated and passion of private collectors and the game community.
We desperately needs consumer rights - this is also related to all other aspects of the game industry too (layoffs, strikes,consumer rights being stripped of ownership)- we all need to come together and get the lead out- we can’t have them constantly dictate what is ownership
Piracy is our only hope to bringing back preservation as a whole. Those corporate pigs have no damn rights to take away a game we've purchased to have ownership of. FTC and Lina Khan matters. #stopkillinggames
Way ahead of you mate. Every rom/ISO set stored on 2x 18TB HDDs. Been collecting for years because I knew this would happen. It's not about pIrAcY, it's about preservation.
Gosh, I think this video just convinced me to become an archivist. I collect CDs and Video Games, and had recently slowed down because I pretty much got all the stuff I *wanted*. I already decided after Taki Udon's last video that I needed one of those dumpers. I also was able to monetarily support the Polymega and morally support all other properly sourced consolators. Yea, I need to start looking into that to see how I can help.
The UK has the National Archive. There is a legal requirement for anything published, music, books, games etc, in the UK to have at least a single copy sent for their archives. This includes digital store fronts like Microsoft's Xbox Arcade on the 360. So we (at least in the UK) should have a preservation of games. However, it is very much like the USA where you need to be an authorised person to access the content, and prove legitimate needs for it, and you're not going to be able to take it with you because it's still bound by copyright and must remain. This does mean for some RUclipsr's such as Kim Justic who does marathon length coverage of all titles from one publisher, genre or compares platforms etc, they would have to actually live at the archive as a permanent resident to complete their job.
Canada may also prove critical in video game preservation due to the nation's orphan works law. Here in Canada, the federal agency responsible for copyright can and will issue licences for orphan works so long as prospective licensees can prove they've made reasonable efforts to find the copyright holders of those orphan works. Thus, someone interested in republishing games from defunct studios might be best to try doing so in Canada.
Agree with this video. I wish it would have also made a mention of the stopkillinggames Initaive Ross Scott is moving forward. Wich would hopefully handle a few of the concerns from a legal side.
As far as I'm concerned, this preservation issue is the biggest argument against videogames being art. Every single other form of art is far better preserved, even by the big bad corporations that own them. The way the gaming industry treats game preservation makes it obvious that the industry itself does not consider games are an art form worthy of being preserved. In the end, piracy is the only true preservation tool gamers have, that can fully cover the preservation necessities of the art form, and that's the reason I'll never be fully against piracy.
Piracy is pretty awful for proper preservation, it's basically a step above "better than nothing". The big issue with game preservation is that almost nobody actually wants to put money in to do proper preservation, certainly not for the general public.
"every single other form of art is far better preserved" because those forms have existed long enough for the gaps to be missed. gaming is a new art form and humans are repeating the exact same mistakes they made in terms of new art medium preservation
@@relo999 What are you on about? Piracy is the best way to preserve video games. I have all my old console games inside internal storage devices in their respective consoles, including the DLC and patches I want for those that have it. The games play just as good as those who bought them back in the day... in fact even better in some cases since booting some of them from a hard drive makes them have faster load times, particularly the older games like PS2, Original Xbox, etc. Do you want a signature of ownership from the publisher to consider it "real preservation"? lol...
@@relo999 No actually there are organizations like the Video Game History foundation that are willing to put money into preservation... They just cant because of garbage copyright laws which was the main point of this video.
Such a shame that many games and services went into oblivion - but thanks to the community, many stuff got archived and preserved. This is not piracy, this is our history and legacy!
@@rhindlethered but if you’re not going do anything with it, it’s just being wasteful. Example: if you bought a living room table, but then you don’t put anything in it, like say, a lamp. Why did you buy it? It’s not only a waste of your money, but it could’ve went to someone who needed one. Heck, I used to have a gaming chair, but when I realized I didn’t have any space for it, I gave it away instead of letting collect dust.
@@IamaPERSON That doesn't matter. Your example is terrible. Maybe it *is* wasteful to buy a table you never use. But it's *my* table. You don't get to just take it because I'm not using it to its fullest advantage.
I am with you 110% on this. As someone who is a speedrunner of retro video games as well as someone who has a wife with a Masters in Public History (museum work), this is a depressing topic. Without the community, we would have a HUGE gap in the history of video games that could be the equivalent of losing an ancient archive similar (but scaled down a bit) to the Library of Alexandria. There's been so much knowledge lost over the ages to archives like that being lost. To put it in perspective, if someone wants to create and update a game from the early days of video game history, without preservation, it's not happening. It would be like trying to make the movie "O Brother where art thou" without even having the source material of the Odyssey and using handed down hearsay to piece something together.
@Maximilian1990 no, but many museums also have specific events (like the state of Illinois museum) with showing off artifacts at their collection site. Along with depending on the items (taking into account aspects such as how fragile they are etc) they can sometimes let the patrons handle them. These do tend to be for museum members, but they do exist. If games aren't preserved, they can't even be viewed in an "attract" mode... They're just gone unless the producer still has a copy somewhere.... Not to mention any game producer/maker that's went out of business.....
18 дней назад+19
@@Maximilian1990 Piracy does not take the games away from the companies that made them, though. They copy what has already been published.
Games source code should have to be made public. No need for developers to do anything, just publish their source code. That's it. Github exists. Be forced by law to make abandoned code public. If not done, at least after asked, face fines and legal consequences. Easy fix.
no, part of "preservation" is the REMOVAL of the originators "remaining in control of it" because if you know anything about history... they will try to revise and retcon it. You never know when something you take for granted now will become a victim of politics tomorrow.
it's really hard to publish old games, I know a team that worked on one few years ago, took then 2 years to track down all license holders and making deals. It's not as easy as people think
Good video, although video games have been around a lot longer than 40 years. Heck, my brother and I got a PONG console, from our grandparents, for Christmas back in 1974, which was 50 years ago, and I believe many sites say the first recognized video gain was "Tennis for two" back in 1958. I totally agree that we should be preserving video games and have been saving what I can for my own collection and I think a lot of people should too. Again good job with your video and keep fighting the good fight!
It's damn frustrating to see the way the industry deals with the matter. But I don't see them ever changing their stance. It will continue to be in the hands of individuals to keep access to these old games. Preserve collections the best you can. Contribute if you're able to. I believe copyright law needs reform more than anything. There needs to be an expiration date on copywrite content if it is unavailable for purchase after a set time. Either this pushes publishers to re-release the content in some form or they give up the right to copywrite. One challenge is the multiple parties often involved in publishing games each having rights to certain IP. The changes need to be made before a game starts development to make sure that licenses allow for rights to expire after a certain time.
It’s time for video game players, emulator developers, and historians of all stripes to create a consumer advocacy group. The ESA is a lobbying organization that funnels money previously paid by consumers to giant publishing corporations into a singular collected fund that effectively bribes both politicians and judicial authorities. A consumer advocacy group could be the same thing, except that it’s for the people who would otherwise be giving these companies money, therefore potentially making a unified threat to the trickle-down gravy train that fuels the ESA. The only thing they care about is money. Start taking that off the table, and you’ll see these ghouls change their tune quick.
Thank god so many of the emulators have been open source from the get go. Honestly the most noble cause in video game preservation. If no one will fix the problem, the community will and there is no stopping that.
Where have you been the last month? We basically lost the internet archive. It’s fallible. If you personally aren’t ensuring the longevity of titles don’t count on anyone else to do it for you. Download as many complete NO-INTRO torrents as you can, put it all on a NAS with at least RAID 1 or 5, back it all up to another location, then make a copy on physical media to give a copy to a friend for offsite storage. There’s no “getting out” of these dark times, if anything this has steadily gotten worse over the last 3 decades. At least we have ample storage and bandwidth to do all this ourselves now.
It's a very simple thing to understand. We will continue to play older, historical games. It will not stop, whether it's legal or not. Because it is important for us to remember our roots, to share these parts of our culture with future generations, to reconnect with our childhoods when we grow older, to make sure that gaming is actually improving over time by comparing it to the past, and for many other reasons that you can't just stop by saying "muh copyright". The practice will continue for as long as there is a need for it, and the only way to stop it is to provide a legal means for us to have access to this stuff. Free or paid. The more they fight against it, the more hated they become. And the more people will go against things they do out of spite and reactance. They can ignore this at their own peril.
I never speedrun old games, I rarely play the old games. But I firmly believe they should be made available and preserved, your message really hit home, so sad that Nintendo among others, are so dead set against destroying the older games. They dangle the carrot of just buy it here is awesome, then in a few years they shut down the store making them unavailable, rinse and repeat. No one wants to keep buying the same game multiple times, and not everyone can afford super rare physical games, that since they are physical, could stop working due to hardware malfunction. CDs and DVDs do have a shelf life, I am going to guess cartridge games do as well. Can you imagine spending thousands of dollars on old physical games only to lose them in a disaster or theft, with no way to ever play them again?
@@tcscomment Someday I hope a court case does happen just so we have the clear rules of what is and isn't okay. I hate this grey area business where people keep guessing.
@@gligarguy4010the large problem with that is Nintendo can very much just out-spend whoever opposes them unless they're going after an equally large company
Many modern movies (including one of the Toy Story entries) and video games were saved even before release because an employee kept an “unauthorized” copy at home, and restored their work when the office servers crashed.
Publisher's wet dreams is an all streaming service on your TV that they control everything. It is as simple as that. But only for something they think it is upfront profitable. The lesser known ones will continue to be impossible to get other than downloading a rom
I've had a steadily decreasing tolerance for DRM over the years, to the point where I rarely even buy games on Steam anymore and almost exclusively shop on GOG. I’ve even started reinvesting in titles in my library which I originally purchased with DRM restrictions where/when they are otherwise available DRM-free (e.g. GOG). Furthermore I’ve fortunately been taking steps to preserve backups of older titles I have on physical media in the event any related hardware gets damaged or lost. I do believe games are works of art and should be preserved just as other forms of creative expression are (e.g. paintings, movies, books) and I support the community’s efforts to preserve them even if/when the industry neglects to do so. Games shouldn’t have to be lost to time, existing to generations only in the forms of recordings, descriptions or pictures. They’re interactive experiences which can only be truly preserved by maintaining accessibility to that interaction and I’ve seen how emulation can be the only reasonable means of access. I therefore see emulation as a service to the community and to history and both respect and applaud the efforts behind it.
In Spanish jurisdiction there is only piracy if, and only if, there is reselling of IP. As a result, if you don’t, it is not piracy, there are sentences around that concept. Therefore, it is arguable. Having said that, justice cannot ignore the fact that if that IP is not marketed, then there is no harm in using it AS IS. No harm no foul principle.
Hey Dimitris thank you for bringing attention to this! Pirate Parties around the world are trying to bring about a Political solution to the problem. Regards from Pirate Party Australia 🏴☠️
I'm getting a feeling that the video game crash is forcing these corporate publishers to work with lawmakers to restrict gaming preservation to make money off of these classic games because they're too lazy to make really good games
I just want to give a shout out to all of you who have created emulators, and provided the roms for us to enjoy. I love you guys and you have been providing a necessary service to all of us for decades. You have made our lives better. Thank you very much and I hope you continue to thrive 🎉
@@promero14 Been in the preserving games game since 2000, I have files over 24 years old that I've transferred from floppy to CD to DVD to Blu Ray to Hard Drives to a NAS with a bacup. I have a complete set of every game from Atari 2600 to the Dreamcast including the Arcade. I'll do my part to make sure they never dissappear.
Accept you can’t have it and move on? You don’t have a given right to access. And in most cases, legal avenues aren’t exhausted - it is mostly possible to buy used
I will always be grateful for the community efforts in order to provide emulators, roms, patches, fixes and many other resources that make playing old and obscure games viable. So many great classics!
@@Maximilian1990 If you purchased license, thinking you are buying and not just lending you got scammed and company who sold you have to be put in court.
@@Bullminator ?? No, if you buy something not knowing what it is and get upset after, it is not a scam, you are an idiot. EVERY game is sold as a license, and so is other software, even physical games are licenses. What is shitty is when games like the Crew just stop you from playing the game entirely, even when offline is possible, that is a scam and we have movements like Stop Killing Games trying to do something about it.
If anybody contributing the emulation scenes sees this: thank you for what you do! Im off to play bulletstorm rpcs3 after this comment. Rpcs3 and Xenia have both improved massively in the last 9 months. Now I play ps3 and 360 games on my ser5 mini pc
THANK YOU so much for making this video. I feel that news of the recent ruling really flew under the radar. I also think it’s important to call The ESA exactly what it is: a lobbying arm for member organizations that’s also registered as a non-profit (so it pays no taxes).
The one question is - how are they going to STOP us playing retro games outside of the eco-system? I've got a PS1 and PS2 so I can play them at any time, and I have an N64, Wii U and Gamecube so can play those games at any time. So if Nintendo don't want me playing those games, how are they going to stop me? It's not like Nintendo can take me to court to force me to get rid of said equipment.
@rhindlethered If Nintendo could stop you they would, and they keep inventing new ways to undermine the legality of ownership, specifically your rights as an owner to do whatever you want with the product you purchased.
There was and Nintendo carpet bombed it because zoomers and Gen alphas kept bragging on TikTok about being able to pirate pokemon and openly showing people how to do it
@@chikkin.salad.sandwich That site is still up just does not have 1st party Nintendo games on there ( most of them ) 3rd party games are still available to download.
The IA is back again and login should be restored soon. There are also other sites where video games from the Atari to the PS3/Wii U era are fully preserved, including demo discs and DLC. If you know where to look, video game preservation isn't going anywhere, legally or illegally.
What you're saying is so true. The video game industry *says* it want's to preserve video games, but their actions show that they don't. Their money and effort goes into barring people from accessing old video games. If this topic concerns you, consider visiting the Stop Killing Games website where multiple efforts are ongoing to correct this. The biggest being the European Citizen's Initiative and if you're an EU citizen you should consider signing it. There's an FAQ that answers most questions. As to why the EU initiative isn't more elaborate, that's because there's a character limit. This is by design on the EU's side, the EU itself will handle the subject and decide if it is already covered by existing law, or new law has to be made.
nothing pisses me off more than spending money on something and being told im no longer allowed to use the thing i purchased. then give me my fucking money back...
@@FatLarry-h4z except this like have the waiter/waitress talk to you nice make good conversation for hours and then 2 hours later. You leave without ever have gotten any physical food but paid for the service. Like paying for a hooker for her say nice things to you, and no ah-hum fun time......
@@FatLarry-h4zits NOT Food. Food gets goes away. When you eat it. Entertainment like Music, movies, and games They stay. And keep playing the same way they do. Well music and movies. Games Sadly don't get that privilege of being able to be played on ANY format. Unless you download a Emulator on your PC and get the BIOs illegally to run the disc. Some Emulators can run the disc on PC. But alot don't.
MVG, thanks for these truly awesome facts-based opinion pieces. I believe you inspire people and affect game preservation positively every time you post a video like this. I'm not cut out for the amazing work being done with decompiling etc, or to talk about legality, but I'll support where I can. I'm not sure exactly what to say in my videos with emulation so I rely on people like yourself. Thank you!
It's largely a question on if you see video games as just a product or also as art. The US is slowly starting to see video games only as a disposable product.
Thank you, MVG. THIS is the reason i stubbornly won't give up my disc drive for my laptop! maybe i can backup all my disc games to send to an archive site. And i think we should *donate* to sites that archive: our donations can offset any fines they may be forced to pay in future.
Something you miss to say it's license and many companies that aren't longer running that have the license of some videogames and they probably can't see the light again
A huge problem for me is, that people making these laws are not gamers, not consumers. They have no clue what they are doing. The publishers are not gamers. The lawyers are not gamers.The judges are not gamers. Yet they think they know what to decide. To me it's like video games are effective medicines and the peoples I just listed want to remove the medicines from the market, who are people that don't need them. It's hell on earth.
The people making these laws "aren't consumers"? What do you think they do with their money? I'm so sorry that your precious little life is "hell on earth" because you can't play a particular video game without paying for it.
@@rhindletheredYou miss the point it’s not that you can’t play a game without payin for it it’s that even if you paid for it you still can’t play it, because the publishers and lawmakers do not give a F about you or me
It's actually up to developers and publishers. No matter what you want to believe there is no justification for piracy. You are not entitled to anyone else's art, no matter what form it's in. If it's not made available to you by those who either made it or have the rights to it--tough luck. That's the way it works, whether we're talking video games or music or movies. It's not your job to "preserve" games. Believe me, even the most obscure title is preserved by the owners. Just because you personally don't have access to it doesn't give you any entitlement to own it illegally.
_Pong_ was the first commercially successful video game and came out in 1972, too, and the two oldest known video games are _OXO_ and _Strachey's Draughts_ which were both completed in 1952.
After your wii u homebrew video in 2019 opened my eyes to console modding, Ive been modding every console I own or using flash carts. WHen i get money for hardrive Ill back it all up, I want my future kids to be able to enjoy the games I played.
18 дней назад+37
Intellectual property was a mistake. Medical patents, massive media monopolies with record profits while independent productions struggle to even exist, musicians suing each other over 3 second chord progressions and now old videogames going to the void. Intellectual property has done everything it said it would prevent, it needs to go.
The system is definitely broken but doing away with IP altogether isn't without problems either. Without IP protections advancements aren't publicly shared and sometimes advancements are incredibly difficult to reverse-engineer, as WD40 demonstrates.
The compromise solution: Require that copyright holders provide their copyrighted media for sale (at a reasonable price) or lose their copyright. The radical solution: Set all copyright to expire after 15 years. 15 years is well enough time for anyone to profit from their creations. After that it should be open to the public to use as they wish. Super Mario Bros. should be in the public domain. This doesn't mean trademarks should expire after 15 years, mind you. Nintendo can keep their exclusive right to publish new Super Mario games. But any individual work should be made freely available to all before it is likely to become lost media. And then the media that people actually have an interest in will live on.
Not so radical. Before Disney kept getting copyright extended, it use to be 15 years with the option of a one time extension to another 15 years after which it would become public domain for everyone to enjoy. It was thought to be a social good to give it back to the public to remix or enjoy how they saw fit. Disney made their empire out of public domain works then pulled the ladder up behind them so their work would escape being returned. I wish we would go back. Creator should be able to exploit their work for a set number of years but after which the public owns it while it is still relevant and before it is forgotten or lost to time. Even at 30 years that is more than enough time to disgusting exploit a franchise till you made multiple millions of dollars. And it would keep stuff fresh. It would encourage companies to come up with new ideas instead of sequels, and it would encourage others to remix stories and characters in new original works.
The only remotely justifiable reason I can possibly think of for game companies to not be okay with out of print games being illegal to pirate is that game companies want us buying and playing new games, not playing the old ones. This is not to defend them, mind you. Older video games rock and I've been playing the hell out of the older Zelda titles recently. It's kind of dystopian in a way that we're only permitted to consume the media they allow us to.
All publishers should be required to preserve their games by law and make them available once they're no longer being actively sold. This should especially include games that are dependent on third party licenses such as Outrun 2 or Afterburner Climax.
That is insane lol what a ridiculous frivolous law that would be mandating game publishers to have to maintain server rooms just for hosting old software ensuring a growing ongoing cost to them the longer they exist, laws don't exist to fulfil your whims and we shouldn't litter lawbooks with millions of laws governing every single pet peeve people might have. You want to preserve games? Buy them, store them, buy a few hard drives and dump them for yourself
@@GhostOfLorelei Then you expect them to give up their copyright and just hand you the intellectual property, what other industry does that? These comments really illustrate how ridiculous the expectations from gamers are and thus why the courts slap this whole thing down on sight at this point
@@GhostOfLorelei why would you need game code? When preserving movies you don't really need an original roll of film, you only need a copy of a compiled and edited movie. Just let up keep and download ROMs and there would be no issue. Requiring publishers to preserve their shit is also weird because why would they? It'll be enough for them not to hinder game preservation
The hardest part these days is that even online games deserve preservation, and there aren't many projects or tools to do so. I try to preserve as much Final Fantasy XIV related things as possible. I tend to keep duplicate full copies of the game each patch and I've preserved all game patch files since around 2019. It's important to preserve the client software, but the server software is far more difficult. Since we don't have access to that, I run a preservation project for Final Fantasy XIV that preserves and crowdsources the client-server communications each play session for future research and preservation. I'm hoping to provide a lot of open-source research about the network protocol for preservation efforts going into the far future.
![Coheed and Cambria - Searching for Tomorrow [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/hDsYGLbmadg/mqdefault.jpg)
Piracy is preservation
The film Industry proved that. Thousands of movies would be lost of somebody hadn't kept a film reel they weren't supposed to.
Now we're seeing it with Video thankfully faster than with film. Video game history is far better preserved than film because of community efforts.
No, piracy is piracy.
Piracy is a pricing issue
@@guyverjay1289 low IQ answer
@@Matanumi It is a service issue.
Piracy is NOT preservation.
Been playing so many old games recently across PC/Consoles. It's a shame the lengths we need to go to preserve history and then make sure the games out today are playable for generations to come.
Indeed it is a shame. No one should have to spend 100$+ just to play an older game. All its doing is gate keeping good games from new players who may enjoy them.
i like playing pcsx2 ngl
About 80% of my favorite games were discovered from emulating old games
You already know Muda if we all started playing good games again then the market for the current crap they push would die. We would all have a mid level PC and some 8bitdo controllers or whatever. We're at the point where if a good game doesn't hold up with time passing, people just mod it and bring it back to life.
as a kid my computer was insanely weak so i spent a lot of time playing stuff like Half-Life and emulating n64 games and before. The free discovery of old media should be preserved for the future generations. if we can have libraries for books, films, and music, why can we not have the same for video games? Ultimately, I believe the issue is with the profit and the popularity of the medium today. Until the industry crashes or higher ups leave, nothing will change.
If the concept of a library was created today instead of being established centuries ago, publishers of books would fight tooth and nail to make sure that it could never happen.
Tell me how storefronts like Amazon aren't trying to do _exactly_ that with as much media as possible going forward.
"Pay a monthly fee for the privelege of entering the library even if nothing interests you. Oh and thats on top of buying individual books that you'll ofc get no discount on nor be allowed to keep despite no refunds when we burn the books."
@@lm9029 this might come as a surprise to you but book libraries usually require you to pay a monthly access fee
Thats not "preservation", man. Thats just straight up THEFT!!! Its illegal activity! It like saying a bank robber is "preserving" money!
@@Maximilian1990 where? I’ve never once heard of a library that wasn’t a public library. You have late fees and have to pay to replace something you lose, but otherwise they’re completely free.
This is DarkMoe from Flashpoint Archive. For years I think I managed to save some lost to time games. In the end it's always about time and effort. In the case of modern online releases you also have to add the storage for it. Imagine saving multiple builds for example of games like League of Legends. That's a ton of space. And personal backups tend to get lost overtime. I know firsthand with HD crashes, or misplaced stuff
thank you so much for the efforts youve put into preserving flash gam history, I was able to relive memories from my childhood thanks to flashpoint
Hey, thanks for your efforts on Flashpoint. It really is just about the ideal kind of library.
I might be able to find that old parking game that had "welcome to the jungle" as their credits thanks to you.
Thank you! I was apart of your Discord for a while
Yep, games get bigger and bigger each year.
If you can no longer buy it, then why aren't we allowed to download and share it.
So just to confirm, if you can buy it for full price on a current platform then it's wrong to pirate it? Just trying to understand the rules.
Why ask for permission?
@@gligarguy4010 they didnt post any rules, they simply asked a question.
Real gamers don't lol@@wreagfe
Don't ask, just save it locally.
Everyone backup on someone's drive, is another puzzle piece in the archaeology chain.
We need to keep history alive by preserving the digital footprint of our world.
If buying is not owning Piracy isnt stealing.
Are you willing to prove that in a court of law? You’re the little guy in this fight, don’t poke a bear with a stick.
@Kamawan0 Dont push it or ill give you a war you wont believe -John Rambo
That is why I am thankful for Polish Copyright Laws which states that a medium is legal to download as long as it is not used commercially unless specified
As it should be.
thats how it should be everywhere. if they arent willing to make it available and make money on it theres literally zero harm being done to anyone
Great. Now they're going to invade Poland.
Ok my comment went into the, not interesting abyss. Is there a limit to it? I mean keys and, i try to use different words so my comment does not disappear 😂 , a fixed .exe file wich you aren't allowed to use?
My other comment is there bit only visible when you click on new comments and search for it.
Honestly, the US system was suppose to do that due to first-sale doctrine. But people just kind of wave that away these days.
"I'm older than videogames" would make an awesome t-shirt
PS3 CFW is 2x better than the PS5 pro that worst when is only has 256 MB VS 16GB ram that likey none are free to use for old gen games
Power system that can't even play older game means
is older than the PS3 would been yet
PS1 - Supports HDMI by 3rd party
PS2 - Most loved still has it at home ( Modded of curse )
PS3 Slim - Nice try sony im not buying the PS5 pro as it an older system than is baby one from years ago
He's not though... The first video game was released in 1958. Even discounting Tennis for Two, the first arcade game was released in 1971, making it 53 years old.
@@Stormlywingwhat has this got to do with a t-shirt?
@@masternerd64 it's not like people would be pedantic and correct him on the streets like they do on youtube comments tho, so it's okay
Count on me!
Games not published within 10 years should lose their copyright. They should also lose it if they don't publish the source code within 30 years.
Insane that piracy will might be the only way to preserve games
True, i even downloaded a LOT of torrents games and PS2 ROMs.
This is why I have a folder in my HDD full of cracked games I like/used to play and also have multiple backups of that folder.
@@MuhammadAlfikri-i1m Are you seeding them tho cause when no one does then no one else will have access to them leading to the same problem again.
Yeah its a depressing reality.
@doniarts That's a issue of torrent unfortunately, because i saw a lot of niche torrent that are not usable due to the owner never seed the torrent ever again.
Digimon World (PS1) is a game I find myself coming back to time and again, for the past 24 years. There’s still a bit of a community that still plays, mods and live-streams the game (it seems to have gotten more attention overall recently).
That’s a game that, given its lack of broad popularity, outright would no longer exist without emulation.
ur a G in my eyes. first game I ever owned brand new as a birthay gift. best thing ever man
What a great game
Yeah evolution is still a mystery sometimes for DW1
Of the World saga, Digimon World 3 is my favourite one.
DW2 for me, and the systems that could play it are rapidly failing due to nothing more than age. PSX was a godsend for being able to play it in the modern day.
The only reason i was ever able to complete Digimon World is because of emulation. The PAL version had an infamous bug that would render the game impossible to finish. Thankfully, there is now a community patch that corrects it, but all CD print are forever broken.
2:38 oh hey I created this online list, thanks for featuring it!
for context, the numbers shown are releases worldwide so the Virtual Console numbers are including regional exclusives such as MSX games on Wii and Wii U in Japan
I've been attempting to keep track of the statistics of NSO releases in an effort to better illustrate what the service currently contains in its software library, I hope to continue this project especially when the Switch successor comes out
Also remakes and remasters aren't the same as preservation
Which the PS5 pro claims is has
backwards compatible where is lacks is older gens which meaning is just to run Last gens games not on his 30th day which is only counts to 11th when you match PS4 lunchday to the PS5 pro and you see 30th is not right
Or if an old game was released on multiple platforms and the publisher takes down the OG builds - now, the only one you can have is some jankfest based off the crummy mobile port. The legendary OG releases are lost to history. GTA says hi. Things like cloud gaming also only have the bleeding edge build, so you can't even play GTA V as it was intended at launch. You need to find an original disc and keep your console offline to ensure it doesn't update.
I also downloaded the "HITMAN Collection" off Xbox Live - except it was just HITMAN 3 with the mission packs. That's a totally different experience to the original game because HITMAN 3 gutted the mechanics and revamped the missions so they don't look, feel, or play like the originals.
Remasters/re-releases are strongly encouraged though, enabling older titles to be played on modern hardware is undeniably a a good thing, much better than the plague that are remakes
Biggest problem with remakes/re-masters is that most of them are fucked around with. Adding in pointless censorship or removing features outright.
They just can't help themselves.
2 words: fool's errand 😂. I guess that antstream arcade subscription isn't good enough for ya. People are also paranoid like steam is gonna wipe their accounts.
Needs to be a law that games become abandonware after 10 years without being on sale and the original publisher loses the copyright and it becomes public domain. If they want to retain it then they must make it available for sale.
Seriously, Id used to be very good with this before they got taken by Bethesta where they released most of their stuff as open source.
good luck with that no way thatll happen as long as boomers are in charge once they go out were in charge
copyright maybe to the game itself, but for the characters, i don't think so.
The game should become abandonware for sure. Let's say Zelda minishcap that has been re-released all the time for virtual consoles so that would make sense it wouldn't be abandonware, but let's say super Mario land 2, that was released on 1993 and then re-released on 3DS virtual console on 2011 (on korea 2016) and then again on switch online on 2023.
That game, should have lost its rights for sure on 1993-2011. So when people emulated that game, they should have had all the rights to do so.
That wouldn't affect their sales that much if they released the game for 3-5 € on 3DS, since the consoles are always closed unique systems, so of course people will still buy the games on them.
@@matteste Id only open sourced their engine. You still needed to have bought the game to get the WADs. I miss them releasing their engines, though.
Okay, what I would do is then list it for sale for 1 trillion dollars. Problem permanently solved. Nice try though
Touhou 1-5 is a good example of this. Original releases of around 100 copies on floppy discs for the Japanese PC98. That's a whole lot of impossible unless somebody has already done the work of ripping it for you.
Ngl as a Touhou fan myself, I wouldn't have been able to ever play these without dumped roms and an emulator. I can't afford paying thousands of dollars for the original carts + some old Japanese PC I can't even read nor understand what it says. Good games by the way, and I also appreciate the fan made English patches of them.
not to mention floppies are probably degraded by now
I was born in 2001, years after some of my favorite video games. Emulation and videos of people using it helped me a lot for discovering many titles. It would suck hard for future generations to get stuck with whatever games publishers think are worth buying (or renting...), and nothing else.
Sega actually deserves some credit on this front, because believe it or not, they actually sell honest to goodness ROMs on Steam that come bundled with an emulator, and even if that's not to your satisfaction, you can just take the ROM file and load into any emulator you prefer. With emulator development being so vast for all platforms, it would be easy for any and all publishers to simply open up their coffers and sell ROMs they own for use with existing emulators and games could be saved for practically zero effort on their part.
Sega took down many roms on sonic and persona
That was good while it lasted, but they seem to be shifting away from that model; like how the classic Sonic quadrilogy was entirely delisted for Origins's release, making it impossible to legally acquire the ROMs and briefly making mods like S3AIR unplayable
They delisted the classic Sonic ROMs when Origins was released. So they are not perfect in this regard.
@@SyphistPrimewe are all saying this without know the amount of revenu they made on these roms... if the amount was low, maybe us, consumers, arent rewarding enough companies that actually make an effort.
@@ct2651 I literally bought the complete set to reward this behavior. I've also bought the mobile ports of Sonic 1 and 2, even though I use decompiled versions for better ease of use. I'm doing what I can to show my support for SEGA doing this, but I am only 1 person. Before the delisting I even encouraged people to buy the ROMs officially as it was the only ROMs you could legally purchase. I tried to do my part to encourage this kind of behavior from companies.
That said, if another company were to do such a release and provide the ROM or ROMs for personal use I would buy it, even if I'm not really interested in the game. Why? Because it's genuinely a practice I believe in and rewarding it is worth my money, even if I don't end up getting anything out of the game.
This topic doesn't apply to just video games, it applies to EVERYTHING. Old quality and spirit is gone, replaced by an endless lust for money, power, and influence. Just look at how cheaply made today's products are. When all people care about is themselves and money we end up in a society like this.
People are happy to buy shit, which is why they keep doing it.
one day we will own nothing and we be happy... is a phrase that keeps popping up in my head with all the crap going on in the world and the consumers....
so true! all industries have gone LOW QUALITY, even at HIGH PRICES
@@PrincipalButtsavage "Don't ask questions, just consume product, and get excited for next product."
@@radt0ast I know what that is!!!
I currently am working on an emulator for Java Feature Phones and it is a huge undertaking considering the large number of phones available and all of the various different APIs available. But gosh your points on research is definitely true, digging into so many ancient books, old search results, etc. soo much knowledge is needed and cross-knowledge too. It sucks because to the end user they often do not see the amount of research that is needed to write an emulator which is really draining when someone who really has no idea pops in and complains about how slow emulation development is, which is really common.
Keep it up
Oh! i remember playing old .jar and .jad java games on the J2me emulator. It's wonderful that you're researching feature phones! Good luck!
I forgot about these games! You're doing good work.
oh wow 11 year long project waow
@@XerShadowTail sounds like you need to network/work harder
Those of us who can help preserve video games must take action. It is up to us to ensure that we do not move from Lost Media to the archaeology of certain video games.
this is why i’ll always hold onto the full library zips of the nes, snes, and N64. if someone needs them, i’ve got em
@@mo0se3 😂 when i get my nas im gonna have every rom i can get my hands on lol
@@xXdeathXx101 Im at 265 terabytes lol.
@@mo0se3me too! I have several 8tb hdds with backups of everything from nes to ps2
@kupokinzyt How?
All I have to say is "Thank You"; this is a topic im very passionate about and I'm so sick of people being obtuse about this.
I would say "right to repair" is in the same boat. Companies they say they support it, but make repairs harder or remove features if it was repaired by yourself or a 3rd party.
100%
(I don’t know if I’m just rambling on here so bear with me.) This is most likely a problem thatwill be a continues fight that will outlive us and the generations to come for the rest of humanity’s life. My question is will future generations of gamers continue to preserve or even remember how to preserve our generations of games which is basically the very beginning of gaming. I hope in the future they will allow all the games to be in the public domain sooner or later than risk being forgotten or it will just live in the history books alone if it is recorded that is. One for example I know is with some of the early doctor who series the bbc didn’t see the importance of preserving any of the programs until it was too late we lost a lot of it but some were preserved.
I mean, isn't that why IFixIt has guides for console repairs?
Abandoned software and hardware should be considered just that. It's exceptionally frustrating that publishers want to lock things they are no longer interested in selling in the past. I understand that there are licensing issues with music publishers or automobile manufacturers to consider, but that should really only apply to games that are still being sold as new in some sort of retail marketplace.
looks like I need to start an underground mob then cuz Idgaf
The most frustrating thing is that we had the same before with silent movies. In the 1930's people wanted sound movies, so studios stored away or in some cases even destroyed their old catalogue of silent films because it didn't make money. Originally copyright was intended to protect artists and creatives, now that entertainment has become an industry it's a motivation for some executives to destroy the hard work of hundreds of actually creative people because their calculation says it's the most profitable decision.
aaaw the license expired??? So we shall shift+DEL that Ferari and just drive lambos. Kool.
Ooh the license for the song expired?? Well, okay. We wont pay the artist anymore as we delete the track from our game and push a 3.45Mb update to finish it off. WHY IS LICENSING STILL A PROBLEM?? Devs cant find DEL button?? Guys.... your sleeping. Pay attention.
@@Maximilian1990So it's okay for companies to fully control culture and art just because it's in the form of software also how does the big d of the billion dollar companies feel in your holes.
@@Maximilian1990"The software we last touched in 2001 and have no idea how to build anymore isn't abandoned, it's just... on hold." It's so bad that e.g. Rockstar had to resort to pirated versions of their old games just to able to release them on Steam.
I just played a game that turned 20 years old today for its birthday, Ratchet and Clank 3; brought back online by some of the best of humanity. It's up to us, they sure as hell won't do it.
Ratchet and Clank 3 is my favourite of the original trilogy, Dr Nefarious is my favourite villain of the series.
First the arcade gaming died, next the community gaming aspect, and now the aspect of owning games.
1 things for sure... it's time to start investing on a 4TB hard drive for Retro games. (2TB if you only play stuff before the PS1 era)...
Just know....(Caution: may not be exact)
Atari 2600: Total set size: 3 Mb
Master System: Total set size: 73 Mb
Sega Game Gear: Total set size: 59.5 Mb
Sega Genesis: Total set size: 1 Gb
Sega Saturn: Total set size: 82.5 Gb
Sega Dreamcast: Total set size: 300 Gb
NES: Total set size: 237 Mb
SNES: Total set size: 1.7 Gb
N64: Total set size: 5.5 Gb
Gamecube: Total set size: 867 Gb
PS1: Total set size: 3.722 Tb
PS2: Total set size: over 18 Tb
GB/GBC: Total set size: 568 Mb
GBA: Total set size: 8.4 Gb
DS: Total set size: 83.2 Gb
Neo Geo AES: Total set size: 3.83 Gb
Neo Geo Pocket: Total set size: 383 Mb
My 4 8TB disks welcome you to the hoarding game. Save everything you can.
Bro, they are selling 32TB models now. This ain't 2004
Already have most games stored, i got you. Napster kaaza limewire gen here
Make multiple backups, as well.
Get yourself a NAS / other storage server, have a good backup strategy and give these game companies the finger
If buying isn't owning, then piracy isn't stealing. 🏴☠🏴☠🏴☠
You call it piracy, I call it preservation. You call it illegal, I call it abandonware. Most games get abandoneed and lost to time until game companies see value in an IP again. Emulation for many is not just a last resort , but a necesity to preserve past works.
Preservation is up to us now.
@@Maximilian1990
You need to go to jail for this horrible opinion you shoes licker
@@Maximilian1990 I call you brain-damaged
@@Maximilian1990 Go shill elsewhere, fake gamer.
Call it what you want. It's still theft.
@@Maximilian1990 @rhindlethered From Wikipedia: Some game developers showed sympathy for abandonware websites as they preserve their classical game titles.
"Is it piracy? Yeah, sure. But so what? Most of the game makers aren't living off the revenue from those old games anymore. Most of the creative teams behind all those games have long since left the companies that published them, so there's no way the people who deserve to are still making royalties off them. So go ahead-steal this game! Spread the love!"
- Tim Schafer
“Piracy is almost always a service problem and not a pricing problem.” - Gabe Newell. This sums up the issue.
Sounds cool. Might you explain it, please?
@@brannycedeno6823People pirate games not because they don't want to pay for the game but because the experience you get with the official version on official hardware is worse. I bought xenoblade x but I've dumped the game and only play it on cemu now because it has a higher resolution, cheats to bypass online requirements for some content, allows the removal of more HUD elements, FOV options, free cam, ect.
@@brannycedeno6823he'll probably respond with if buying isn't owning piracy isn't stealing or something
I know that there is an "almost always" so this could certainly be am outlier, but Thor from Pirate Software talked about how he prices his games cheaper in areas of the world (Brazil was mentioned specifically) that have lower wages and he said that for the one game he was talking about, Brazil (known for their piracy) was the country he got most of his revenue (or maybe sales) from.
So, I believe Gabe that a service problem exists that makes piracy so much easier, but also, I mean, we could all buy these old games for $100-$500 so, I think there is a pricing problem, too.
@@brannycedeno6823The experience you get from piracy is often better than playing the official game on official hardware. For example, I bought xenoblade x but dumped it to cemu because then it can be played with higher resolution, updated lighting, cheats to let you play online only content, more HUD options, wider FOV, freecam, ect
the fact that the US copyright office and regulators of video games support this means It is my moral obligation to pirate games
It's not just that, they simply just don't care then why should we?
if you mean pirate old games, sure... but don't kid yourself when you pirate a game that just released you have some moral high ground.
Yay
@@RupeeRhod this is where i believe that fine line should be.... we should have access to that rom ONCE its at its EOL service... once its not supported we should have access that way it satisfies both parties...and if the companies don't like it....boohoo. that's like the EPA with cracking down on people owning older vehicles...they don't want us to keep older vehicles running even though they and we know that they last longer and don't need a brand new 50K commuter car....
@@CrazyChiefXxX You are talking apples and oranges. The EPA trying to make it harder to own older cars is government overreach, telling us what we can and can't do with the things we own. Forcing companies to allow you to have a game just because it's for an older system is *also* government overreach, telling us what we can and can't do with the things we own. The only difference is when it comes to old games, you're the one who wants the government to overreach on your behalf.
2:55 not enough people consider this; not everyone was born at the exact age to start having disposable income for every game generation, nor could they predict what games will and won’t be popular or rare in the future. Back in 2012, no one thought that the Yakuza series would blow up in popularity in 5 years when the then-new Dead Souls was released, or that that game would be $100+ USD in the future
I was around, I just didn't have the purchasing power because my income was low. Nintendo could have circumvented this issue by actually heavily discounting old games on the estore, especially as it was closing down. Instead it kept most of them at full price and just shut it down. Their loss as much as mine, because I didn't give Nintendo a dime.
Yeah exactly. Im getting tired of the whole "Well you should have just bought it while you had the chance" when not everyone could have done that at the time.
Someone actually argued I should pay for insane prices even if it's way above retail. No way am I doing that.
On top of that, *all* old hardware and media *will* die at some point.
yeah sorry for not buying gamecube games in like 2005 instead of going to daycare lmao
i did manage to get gale of darkness at some random yard sale when i was 11
Ubisoft can get comfortable not having my money.
100% agreed. i hate they way the ruined a small game not alot of people know about ...Trackmania...been playing it for years even back on winXp. then they ruined the latest installment with paywall BS.
sadly stupid quebec government gievs them taxpayer dollars
Ubisoft needs to get comfortable not having a company.
They should get quite comfortable with bankruptcy. I never pirated their games, but now I won't even bother with that. You can't even compare AC Origins with Valhalla. One is a world built with care and love, another is an unfinished smashing heads with an axe simulator.
AC Mirage does not even qualify, a total joke.
Ubisoft needs to get comfortable loosing their employees and making more losses.
Copyright should work like trademarks: once you stop exercising your rights for a fixed time period, you lose it.
That way Disney won't oppose it, but the problem of abandonware is fixed.
They'll just loophole it somehow and then really make copyright infinite. The proper solution is to make copyright much shorter. Things will get preserved and companies will be forced to make new things to earn money instead of attempting to endlessly profit off the old.
Piracy is moral. I am a game developer both indie and have worked on larger projects, I 100% condone the preservation of games regardless.
Exeption to the rule of what not to preserve are bad, unfinished hentai games.
@@Bullminator i must goon therefore i disagree
@@Bullminator good and bad are subjective everything should be preserved especially the "bad" games, and more so on outdated consoles or hardware.
Ok share your work here please so we can steal it
@@Maximilian1990You wont be stealing anything, will you merely copy it.
I'm 49. My journey started upon finding my uncle's Sears Pong console in the closet. I've never looked back. ALL hardware and physical formats will eventually fail. The art that has been created over the last 50+ years deserves to be preserved just like music & cinema. If I have to sail the seven seas in order to enjoy that art, then so be it!
One Anti-Piracy ad I remember seeing for Movies, was if you (the customer) don't pay, we (the company selling it) won't be able to produce NEW BETTER movies due to lack of funds. Well my problems with that are A. New DOES NOT necessarily equal BETTER B. If no new movies were ever made starting from today, no individual would be able to watch ALL the current movies available in their lifetime.
You should talk to Ross. And funny ain't it, the Government AND the Companies themselves can't compare to the dedicated and passion of private collectors and the game community.
Well, there are always thieves, no matter what we do.
Governments are only good at taking your money and starting wars
Well, there was a pinned comment of Scott under this video, now it disappeared for some reason
We desperately needs consumer rights - this is also related to all other aspects of the game industry too (layoffs, strikes,consumer rights being stripped of ownership)- we all need to come together and get the lead out- we can’t have them constantly dictate what is ownership
Piracy is our only hope to bringing back preservation as a whole. Those corporate pigs have no damn rights to take away a game we've purchased to have ownership of. FTC and Lina Khan matters. #stopkillinggames
Way ahead of you mate. Every rom/ISO set stored on 2x 18TB HDDs. Been collecting for years because I knew this would happen.
It's not about pIrAcY, it's about preservation.
Arrrr me hearties. I were only *preservin'* that man's gold.
You are a pirate! 🏴☠️🏴☠️🏴☠️
Wow the replies you're getting are toxic..
Based
@@Sairiui I was being honorific
That message at the ESA's website saying "We love games!"
No you don't. You love *power* .
"Hello fellow gamers"
They love games that makes them money. If there is no money in it and there is risk of losing future opportunties on old IP they are not interested!
Gosh, I think this video just convinced me to become an archivist. I collect CDs and Video Games, and had recently slowed down because I pretty much got all the stuff I *wanted*. I already decided after Taki Udon's last video that I needed one of those dumpers. I also was able to monetarily support the Polymega and morally support all other properly sourced consolators.
Yea, I need to start looking into that to see how I can help.
0:10 Have you seen this man?😀
The back of a milk carton. That intro reminded me of America’s Most Wanted back in the day lol
The UK has the National Archive. There is a legal requirement for anything published, music, books, games etc, in the UK to have at least a single copy sent for their archives. This includes digital store fronts like Microsoft's Xbox Arcade on the 360. So we (at least in the UK) should have a preservation of games.
However, it is very much like the USA where you need to be an authorised person to access the content, and prove legitimate needs for it, and you're not going to be able to take it with you because it's still bound by copyright and must remain. This does mean for some RUclipsr's such as Kim Justic who does marathon length coverage of all titles from one publisher, genre or compares platforms etc, they would have to actually live at the archive as a permanent resident to complete their job.
I thought it was just for published books in the UK
Then the archive is useless. And we still need a solution.
@@bobmcbob4399 How is it useless? It's preserved. If that's what it's all about, why is it useless?
Canada may also prove critical in video game preservation due to the nation's orphan works law.
Here in Canada, the federal agency responsible for copyright can and will issue licences for orphan works so long as prospective licensees can prove they've made reasonable efforts to find the copyright holders of those orphan works. Thus, someone interested in republishing games from defunct studios might be best to try doing so in Canada.
@@NintendoSunnyDee If no one can access apart from a select few, it is useless.
Agree with this video.
I wish it would have also made a mention of the stopkillinggames Initaive Ross Scott is moving forward. Wich would hopefully handle a few of the concerns from a legal side.
As far as I'm concerned, this preservation issue is the biggest argument against videogames being art. Every single other form of art is far better preserved, even by the big bad corporations that own them.
The way the gaming industry treats game preservation makes it obvious that the industry itself does not consider games are an art form worthy of being preserved. In the end, piracy is the only true preservation tool gamers have, that can fully cover the preservation necessities of the art form, and that's the reason I'll never be fully against piracy.
Piracy is pretty awful for proper preservation, it's basically a step above "better than nothing". The big issue with game preservation is that almost nobody actually wants to put money in to do proper preservation, certainly not for the general public.
"every single other form of art is far better preserved" because those forms have existed long enough for the gaps to be missed. gaming is a new art form and humans are repeating the exact same mistakes they made in terms of new art medium preservation
Games aren't art tbh, they are a pandering tool for idiots. Do something meaningful and learn an instrument.
@@relo999 What are you on about? Piracy is the best way to preserve video games. I have all my old console games inside internal storage devices in their respective consoles, including the DLC and patches I want for those that have it. The games play just as good as those who bought them back in the day... in fact even better in some cases since booting some of them from a hard drive makes them have faster load times, particularly the older games like PS2, Original Xbox, etc.
Do you want a signature of ownership from the publisher to consider it "real preservation"? lol...
@@relo999 No actually there are organizations like the Video Game History foundation that are willing to put money into preservation... They just cant because of garbage copyright laws which was the main point of this video.
Such a shame that many games and services went into oblivion - but thanks to the community, many stuff got archived and preserved. This is not piracy, this is our history and legacy!
It literally is still piracy.
@ now remember: if no one wants it, no one owns it, and no one else cares about it, it’s piracy.
@@IamaPERSON Except someone almost always owns it.
@@rhindlethered but if you’re not going do anything with it, it’s just being wasteful.
Example: if you bought a living room table, but then you don’t put anything in it, like say, a lamp. Why did you buy it? It’s not only a waste of your money, but it could’ve went to someone who needed one.
Heck, I used to have a gaming chair, but when I realized I didn’t have any space for it, I gave it away instead of letting collect dust.
@@IamaPERSON That doesn't matter. Your example is terrible. Maybe it *is* wasteful to buy a table you never use. But it's *my* table. You don't get to just take it because I'm not using it to its fullest advantage.
I'll repeat what smart men say.
If buying isn't owning, then piracy isn't stealing.
I am with you 110% on this. As someone who is a speedrunner of retro video games as well as someone who has a wife with a Masters in Public History (museum work), this is a depressing topic. Without the community, we would have a HUGE gap in the history of video games that could be the equivalent of losing an ancient archive similar (but scaled down a bit) to the Library of Alexandria. There's been so much knowledge lost over the ages to archives like that being lost.
To put it in perspective, if someone wants to create and update a game from the early days of video game history, without preservation, it's not happening. It would be like trying to make the movie "O Brother where art thou" without even having the source material of the Odyssey and using handed down hearsay to piece something together.
So your wife is fine with me walking into her museum and taking stuff with me just because it's no longer in use?
Yup, a lot of people don't understand how important preservation is. Imagine if Defender, FF7 or DOOM were lost to history?
@Maximilian1990 no, but many museums also have specific events (like the state of Illinois museum) with showing off artifacts at their collection site. Along with depending on the items (taking into account aspects such as how fragile they are etc) they can sometimes let the patrons handle them. These do tend to be for museum members, but they do exist. If games aren't preserved, they can't even be viewed in an "attract" mode... They're just gone unless the producer still has a copy somewhere.... Not to mention any game producer/maker that's went out of business.....
@@Maximilian1990 Piracy does not take the games away from the companies that made them, though. They copy what has already been published.
"Masters in history" lmaooo
There should be a store like GOG for console games with official emulators provided by manufacturers
Games source code should have to be made public.
No need for developers to do anything, just publish their source code. That's it.
Github exists. Be forced by law to make abandoned code public.
If not done, at least after asked, face fines and legal consequences.
Easy fix.
no, part of "preservation" is the REMOVAL of the originators "remaining in control of it" because if you know anything about history... they will try to revise and retcon it. You never know when something you take for granted now will become a victim of politics tomorrow.
it's really hard to publish old games, I know a team that worked on one few years ago, took then 2 years to track down all license holders and making deals. It's not as easy as people think
@@pinkysweets Copyright right and license laws need reform first. 10 years max. Without these changes preservation is doomed.
Just buy physical games lol
Good video, although video games have been around a lot longer than 40 years. Heck, my brother and I got a PONG console, from our grandparents, for Christmas back in 1974, which was 50 years ago, and I believe many sites say the first recognized video gain was "Tennis for two" back in 1958. I totally agree that we should be preserving video games and have been saving what I can for my own collection and I think a lot of people should too. Again good job with your video and keep fighting the good fight!
It's damn frustrating to see the way the industry deals with the matter. But I don't see them ever changing their stance. It will continue to be in the hands of individuals to keep access to these old games. Preserve collections the best you can. Contribute if you're able to.
I believe copyright law needs reform more than anything. There needs to be an expiration date on copywrite content if it is unavailable for purchase after a set time. Either this pushes publishers to re-release the content in some form or they give up the right to copywrite. One challenge is the multiple parties often involved in publishing games each having rights to certain IP. The changes need to be made before a game starts development to make sure that licenses allow for rights to expire after a certain time.
Copyright is a scam. The Mouse has been extending it for years on years.
@@bobmcbob4399 Copyright law in the US has not been changed since 1998.
It’s time for video game players, emulator developers, and historians of all stripes to create a consumer advocacy group.
The ESA is a lobbying organization that funnels money previously paid by consumers to giant publishing corporations into a singular collected fund that effectively bribes both politicians and judicial authorities.
A consumer advocacy group could be the same thing, except that it’s for the people who would otherwise be giving these companies money, therefore potentially making a unified threat to the trickle-down gravy train that fuels the ESA.
The only thing they care about is money. Start taking that off the table, and you’ll see these ghouls change their tune quick.
the esa exists for one reason and one reason alone. to keep congress out of the gaming industry.
@ and there’s no better way to do that than contributing to reelection campaigns of key legislators
Exactly this needs to rival esa
Too bad pirates are too cheap to pay for stuff 😂
@@cmdraftbrn And they are failing.
Thank god so many of the emulators have been open source from the get go. Honestly the most noble cause in video game preservation. If no one will fix the problem, the community will and there is no stopping that.
If you're in Europe go sign the stopkillinggames petition NOW!
IA and the community will continue to preserve untill we get out of these dark times. The community is strong.
AI is not really helping that much with this. At least not the stuff that is around today.
@@overlordalfredoIA, not AI?
@@MarkusMaal which means?
I was assuming this was a typo
@@overlordalfredoIA =Internet Archive, AI = artificial intelligence
Where have you been the last month? We basically lost the internet archive. It’s fallible. If you personally aren’t ensuring the longevity of titles don’t count on anyone else to do it for you. Download as many complete NO-INTRO torrents as you can, put it all on a NAS with at least RAID 1 or 5, back it all up to another location, then make a copy on physical media to give a copy to a friend for offsite storage.
There’s no “getting out” of these dark times, if anything this has steadily gotten worse over the last 3 decades. At least we have ample storage and bandwidth to do all this ourselves now.
It's a very simple thing to understand.
We will continue to play older, historical games. It will not stop, whether it's legal or not. Because it is important for us to remember our roots, to share these parts of our culture with future generations, to reconnect with our childhoods when we grow older, to make sure that gaming is actually improving over time by comparing it to the past, and for many other reasons that you can't just stop by saying "muh copyright". The practice will continue for as long as there is a need for it, and the only way to stop it is to provide a legal means for us to have access to this stuff. Free or paid.
The more they fight against it, the more hated they become. And the more people will go against things they do out of spite and reactance.
They can ignore this at their own peril.
I never speedrun old games, I rarely play the old games. But I firmly believe they should be made available and preserved, your message really hit home, so sad that Nintendo among others, are so dead set against destroying the older games. They dangle the carrot of just buy it here is awesome, then in a few years they shut down the store making them unavailable, rinse and repeat. No one wants to keep buying the same game multiple times, and not everyone can afford super rare physical games, that since they are physical, could stop working due to hardware malfunction. CDs and DVDs do have a shelf life, I am going to guess cartridge games do as well.
Can you imagine spending thousands of dollars on old physical games only to lose them in a disaster or theft, with no way to ever play them again?
The Nintendo Ninjas out here watching this video, waiting for him to trip up.
Ninjas don't give a shit unless he shows a method
@@Matanumi Nope, where have you been the past few months? They care about showing gameplay.
@@gligarguy4010they use gameplay footage as a petty excuse to shut down things they don't like
@@tcscomment Someday I hope a court case does happen just so we have the clear rules of what is and isn't okay. I hate this grey area business where people keep guessing.
@@gligarguy4010the large problem with that is Nintendo can very much just out-spend whoever opposes them unless they're going after an equally large company
Many modern movies (including one of the Toy Story entries) and video games were saved even before release because an employee kept an “unauthorized” copy at home, and restored their work when the office servers crashed.
Not allowing vaporware or shareware especially is nuts 😮
Publisher's wet dreams is an all streaming service on your TV that they control everything. It is as simple as that. But only for something they think it is upfront profitable. The lesser known ones will continue to be impossible to get other than downloading a rom
I've had a steadily decreasing tolerance for DRM over the years, to the point where I rarely even buy games on Steam anymore and almost exclusively shop on GOG. I’ve even started reinvesting in titles in my library which I originally purchased with DRM restrictions where/when they are otherwise available DRM-free (e.g. GOG). Furthermore I’ve fortunately been taking steps to preserve backups of older titles I have on physical media in the event any related hardware gets damaged or lost.
I do believe games are works of art and should be preserved just as other forms of creative expression are (e.g. paintings, movies, books) and I support the community’s efforts to preserve them even if/when the industry neglects to do so. Games shouldn’t have to be lost to time, existing to generations only in the forms of recordings, descriptions or pictures. They’re interactive experiences which can only be truly preserved by maintaining accessibility to that interaction and I’ve seen how emulation can be the only reasonable means of access. I therefore see emulation as a service to the community and to history and both respect and applaud the efforts behind it.
In Spanish jurisdiction there is only piracy if, and only if, there is reselling of IP. As a result, if you don’t, it is not piracy, there are sentences around that concept. Therefore, it is arguable.
Having said that, justice cannot ignore the fact that if that IP is not marketed, then there is no harm in using it AS IS. No harm no foul principle.
I try to help seed when I can
Same
You the real ones
So brave, such a hero. Sharing stuff you stole...
@@DrNoBrazilSo brave, such a hero. Defending a megacorp...
@@DrNoBrazil Trolling anonymously in the RUclips comments. So brave, such a hero.
The biggest thing happening atm that makes game preservation harder is the 'online only' functionality
Which all too often is there for unnecessary reasons.
Hey Dimitris thank you for bringing attention to this! Pirate Parties around the world are trying to bring about a Political solution to the problem. Regards from Pirate Party Australia 🏴☠️
The German Pirate Party and Czech Pirate Party EU MEP Markéta Gregorová support Stop Killing Games!
I'm getting a feeling that the video game crash is forcing these corporate publishers to work with lawmakers to restrict gaming preservation to make money off of these classic games because they're too lazy to make really good games
That's make sense
@mahendrap1960 it shouldn't exist period
That would explain a lot actually.
What video game crash?
@@ImGonnaFudgeThatFish the stock in games has crashed from what I've heard
I just want to give a shout out to all of you who have created emulators, and provided the roms for us to enjoy. I love you guys and you have been providing a necessary service to all of us for decades. You have made our lives better. Thank you very much and I hope you continue to thrive 🎉
My 12tb and 14tb external drives are dedicated to preservation for just this reason. Complete sets are safe and secure so they dont disappear forever.
What horse shit 😂.
You are just a horder and a pirate😂
same here brother
Just be careful since storage media doesn't last too much
@@promero14 Been in the preserving games game since 2000, I have files over 24 years old that I've transferred from floppy to CD to DVD to Blu Ray to Hard Drives to a NAS with a bacup. I have a complete set of every game from Atari 2600 to the Dreamcast including the Arcade. I'll do my part to make sure they never dissappear.
I have almost every FPS with a single player campaign released for the Xbox 360 , only need 6 more 👍
piracy it is ..... when all legal avenues are exhausted, what else is there ?
Accept you can’t have it and move on? You don’t have a given right to access.
And in most cases, legal avenues aren’t exhausted - it is mostly possible to buy used
@@Silis4327real life and internet arent the same
@@Silis4327 what if I told you... you don't have a right to own an idea either?
More videos pretending that emulation hasn't been the best way to do these things for decades now. Thank god for pirates.
Silis ducks shriveled little corpo penis
I will always be grateful for the community efforts in order to provide emulators, roms, patches, fixes and many other resources that make playing old and obscure games viable. So many great classics!
If You don't own a Game that You paid then You didnt steal the Game that You pirated.
Ownership of the game that you bought is not the issue here.
@@Maximilian1990 If you purchased license, thinking you are buying and not just lending you got scammed and company who sold you have to be put in court.
@@Bullminatorsure try that lawsuit out see if you'll get anywhere with it
@@Bullminator ?? No, if you buy something not knowing what it is and get upset after, it is not a scam, you are an idiot. EVERY game is sold as a license, and so is other software, even physical games are licenses. What is shitty is when games like the Crew just stop you from playing the game entirely, even when offline is possible, that is a scam and we have movements like Stop Killing Games trying to do something about it.
@@Maximilian1990 if you buy company stock do you think you suddenly own the company as well?
If anybody contributing the emulation scenes sees this: thank you for what you do! Im off to play bulletstorm rpcs3 after this comment. Rpcs3 and Xenia have both improved massively in the last 9 months. Now I play ps3 and 360 games on my ser5 mini pc
THANK YOU so much for making this video. I feel that news of the recent ruling really flew under the radar. I also think it’s important to call The ESA exactly what it is: a lobbying arm for member organizations that’s also registered as a non-profit (so it pays no taxes).
The one question is - how are they going to STOP us playing retro games outside of the eco-system? I've got a PS1 and PS2 so I can play them at any time, and I have an N64, Wii U and Gamecube so can play those games at any time. So if Nintendo don't want me playing those games, how are they going to stop me? It's not like Nintendo can take me to court to force me to get rid of said equipment.
They can't stop you. The most they can do is take down those sites but others will pop up.
Who ever said Nintendo doesn't want you playing those games if you bought them legally? This is about *distribution* of copyright-protected material.
@rhindlethered If Nintendo could stop you they would, and they keep inventing new ways to undermine the legality of ownership, specifically your rights as an owner to do whatever you want with the product you purchased.
With Internet Archive going down over the last month , there needs to be another alternative for game preservation online.
Yeah, something like BitTorrent, USENET, IRC, a million different file sharing websites... Hope somebody invents that stuff soon.
There was and Nintendo carpet bombed it because zoomers and Gen alphas kept bragging on TikTok about being able to pirate pokemon and openly showing people how to do it
@@chikkin.salad.sandwich Children are we can't have nice things.
@@chikkin.salad.sandwich That site is still up just does not have 1st party Nintendo games on there ( most of them ) 3rd party games are still available to download.
The IA is back again and login should be restored soon.
There are also other sites where video games from the Atari to the PS3/Wii U era are fully preserved, including demo discs and DLC.
If you know where to look, video game preservation isn't going anywhere, legally or illegally.
What you're saying is so true. The video game industry *says* it want's to preserve video games, but their actions show that they don't. Their money and effort goes into barring people from accessing old video games.
If this topic concerns you, consider visiting the Stop Killing Games website where multiple efforts are ongoing to correct this. The biggest being the European Citizen's Initiative and if you're an EU citizen you should consider signing it. There's an FAQ that answers most questions.
As to why the EU initiative isn't more elaborate, that's because there's a character limit. This is by design on the EU's side, the EU itself will handle the subject and decide if it is already covered by existing law, or new law has to be made.
nothing pisses me off more than spending money on something and being told im no longer allowed to use the thing i purchased. then give me my fucking money back...
it's like food, you buy the food you eat the food, you still enjoyed it and used it, you don't get a refund cause you can't eat it anymore
@ that’s the shittiest take on this particular issue I’ve seen in a while. So you consider video games singe-use consumable goods?
Boo 👎🏻
@@FatLarry-h4z except this like have the waiter/waitress talk to you nice make good conversation for hours and then 2 hours later. You leave without ever have gotten any physical food but paid for the service.
Like paying for a hooker for her say nice things to you, and no ah-hum fun time......
@@FatLarry-h4zits NOT Food. Food gets goes away. When you eat it. Entertainment like Music, movies, and games
They stay. And keep playing the same way they do. Well music and movies.
Games Sadly don't get that privilege of being able to be played on ANY format. Unless you download a Emulator on your PC and get the BIOs illegally to run the disc. Some Emulators can run the disc on PC. But alot don't.
You have your license key still tho, you're free to enjoy it all you want even after the game servers shut down
The irony of the Sony ad at 7:41 is not lost on me
Ah yes, it's the "Pay has no limits" ad
MVG, thanks for these truly awesome facts-based opinion pieces. I believe you inspire people and affect game preservation positively every time you post a video like this.
I'm not cut out for the amazing work being done with decompiling etc, or to talk about legality, but I'll support where I can. I'm not sure exactly what to say in my videos with emulation so I rely on people like yourself. Thank you!
It's largely a question on if you see video games as just a product or also as art. The US is slowly starting to see video games only as a disposable product.
I hope someday a group makes a decomp for Sonic Adventure DreamCast.
I had a Hunch this video was gunna be about Ross's Campaign. The more people know the better! good job.
Thank you, MVG. THIS is the reason i stubbornly won't give up my disc drive for my laptop! maybe i can backup all my disc games to send to an archive site. And i think we should *donate* to sites that archive: our donations can offset any fines they may be forced to pay in future.
Something you miss to say it's license and many companies that aren't longer running that have the license of some videogames and they probably can't see the light again
Richard burns rally, god hand, Pepsi man, bakusou dekotora is some of the example
Thank you MVG for your work on the OG Xbox emulation. It has stood the test of time. Still running like a champ for me. NES,SNES,SEGA etc.. 👍
A huge problem for me is, that people making these laws are not gamers, not consumers. They have no clue what they are doing. The publishers are not gamers. The lawyers are not gamers.The judges are not gamers. Yet they think they know what to decide. To me it's like video games are effective medicines and the peoples I just listed want to remove the medicines from the market, who are people that don't need them. It's hell on earth.
The people making these laws "aren't consumers"? What do you think they do with their money? I'm so sorry that your precious little life is "hell on earth" because you can't play a particular video game without paying for it.
@@rhindletheredYou miss the point it’s not that you can’t play a game without payin for it it’s that even if you paid for it you still can’t play it, because the publishers and lawmakers do not give a F about you or me
They are bourgeois that only see money as a waste of time teaching them
@@rhindletheredstop it
Yes we should listen to permanently online autizts on ownership lawmaking matters instead of lawyers
100tb at home dedicated to preserving games. But that’s not enough. It’s fun acting as a historian.
Keep telling yourself that, "historian".
Not every library can stock every book. I salute you. We must all play a part in conserving our culture.
It's actually up to developers and publishers. No matter what you want to believe there is no justification for piracy. You are not entitled to anyone else's art, no matter what form it's in. If it's not made available to you by those who either made it or have the rights to it--tough luck. That's the way it works, whether we're talking video games or music or movies. It's not your job to "preserve" games. Believe me, even the most obscure title is preserved by the owners. Just because you personally don't have access to it doesn't give you any entitlement to own it illegally.
Tennis for Two came out in '58, and Spacewar! came out in '62. It's a bit older than 40.
I'm sure someone will argue those are "analog games" because they're played on oscilloscope or something lol
_Pong_ was the first commercially successful video game and came out in 1972, too, and the two oldest known video games are _OXO_ and _Strachey's Draughts_ which were both completed in 1952.
@@MaJoRJayjay Tennis for Two is a video game but not a computer game. Spacewar is a computer game as well.
The magnavox odyssey was the first gaming console.
Naughts and Crosses. 1952.
This video is so important. The library argument is solid.
After your wii u homebrew video in 2019 opened my eyes to console modding, Ive been modding every console I own or using flash carts.
WHen i get money for hardrive Ill back it all up, I want my future kids to be able to enjoy the games I played.
Intellectual property was a mistake.
Medical patents, massive media monopolies with record profits while independent productions struggle to even exist, musicians suing each other over 3 second chord progressions and now old videogames going to the void.
Intellectual property has done everything it said it would prevent, it needs to go.
When even a _patent attorney_ writes a book *Against Intellectual Property* you know the system is cooked.
Nah, the problem is power imbalance. Laws are too lax on corps, and too strict on everyone else
It really does.
@ Ok, that’s just taking it too far
The system is definitely broken but doing away with IP altogether isn't without problems either. Without IP protections advancements aren't publicly shared and sometimes advancements are incredibly difficult to reverse-engineer, as WD40 demonstrates.
The compromise solution: Require that copyright holders provide their copyrighted media for sale (at a reasonable price) or lose their copyright.
The radical solution: Set all copyright to expire after 15 years.
15 years is well enough time for anyone to profit from their creations. After that it should be open to the public to use as they wish. Super Mario Bros. should be in the public domain. This doesn't mean trademarks should expire after 15 years, mind you. Nintendo can keep their exclusive right to publish new Super Mario games. But any individual work should be made freely available to all before it is likely to become lost media. And then the media that people actually have an interest in will live on.
Not so radical. Before Disney kept getting copyright extended, it use to be 15 years with the option of a one time extension to another 15 years after which it would become public domain for everyone to enjoy. It was thought to be a social good to give it back to the public to remix or enjoy how they saw fit. Disney made their empire out of public domain works then pulled the ladder up behind them so their work would escape being returned. I wish we would go back. Creator should be able to exploit their work for a set number of years but after which the public owns it while it is still relevant and before it is forgotten or lost to time. Even at 30 years that is more than enough time to disgusting exploit a franchise till you made multiple millions of dollars. And it would keep stuff fresh. It would encourage companies to come up with new ideas instead of sequels, and it would encourage others to remix stories and characters in new original works.
The only remotely justifiable reason I can possibly think of for game companies to not be okay with out of print games being illegal to pirate is that game companies want us buying and playing new games, not playing the old ones. This is not to defend them, mind you. Older video games rock and I've been playing the hell out of the older Zelda titles recently. It's kind of dystopian in a way that we're only permitted to consume the media they allow us to.
"If buying game doesn't mean you own the game, pirating game also doesn't mean stealing the game"
(basically whole internet today)
No only a handful of idiots today think that
All publishers should be required to preserve their games by law and make them available once they're no longer being actively sold. This should especially include games that are dependent on third party licenses such as Outrun 2 or Afterburner Climax.
publisher may close down and the game will be lost. Laws do nothing to help us, they only stop us from helping ourselves.
They should be required to open source them, imo. Giving the code to the fans is the only way to ensure actual preservation.
That is insane lol what a ridiculous frivolous law that would be mandating game publishers to have to maintain server rooms just for hosting old software ensuring a growing ongoing cost to them the longer they exist, laws don't exist to fulfil your whims and we shouldn't litter lawbooks with millions of laws governing every single pet peeve people might have.
You want to preserve games? Buy them, store them, buy a few hard drives and dump them for yourself
@@GhostOfLorelei Then you expect them to give up their copyright and just hand you the intellectual property, what other industry does that? These comments really illustrate how ridiculous the expectations from gamers are and thus why the courts slap this whole thing down on sight at this point
@@GhostOfLorelei why would you need game code? When preserving movies you don't really need an original roll of film, you only need a copy of a compiled and edited movie. Just let up keep and download ROMs and there would be no issue.
Requiring publishers to preserve their shit is also weird because why would they? It'll be enough for them not to hinder game preservation
The hardest part these days is that even online games deserve preservation, and there aren't many projects or tools to do so. I try to preserve as much Final Fantasy XIV related things as possible. I tend to keep duplicate full copies of the game each patch and I've preserved all game patch files since around 2019. It's important to preserve the client software, but the server software is far more difficult. Since we don't have access to that, I run a preservation project for Final Fantasy XIV that preserves and crowdsources the client-server communications each play session for future research and preservation. I'm hoping to provide a lot of open-source research about the network protocol for preservation efforts going into the far future.