"Whoever thinks my semi-retirement is boring, you're wrong!" You give me such hope for my future. I drown in the negativity of our industry and you are 1000% a delight to listen to.
For your turn-based combat conundrum, maybe look at Gears Tactics. Under the hood it seems that all enemy units have initiative and move in order, but they do it in a simulated copy of the game world to figure out the actions. That way the scenario when two units approach the player character, the first one kills them and the second one doesn't have anything to do anymore doesn't happen, because the second one knows the results of the first one's actions. Once all the enemy turns end in the simulated world, the actions are played out in the regular game world all at once (movement speed is somehow adjusted to avoid units crashing into each other), making it quick and visually interesting for the player.
Thundarr! :) One of the best intros in animated TV. That one was a rogue planet that messed up the earth and the moon, sort of a natural upheaval I guess. Some of Fromsoft's games are about you sort of arriving after a decline, a few of them are like society is based on shaky foundations and eventually collapses by its very nature, or it's being torn at all angles by warring powers and just sort of breaks under the pressure of the ruling body trying to continue its own existence. They remind me of how up until like the late 1800s to early 1900s people often thought of geological changes as sudden, massive events, but we learned that it often happens through gradual change over a great period of time, with a few major events as punctuation. So many ways for the world to end :)
I'm working on an updated version of my Post Apocalyptic Writing Guide, and I've managed to come up with 50 different end of the world scenarioes. Best of luck with your project!
Oh this isn't specific ideas, this is just 50 individual apocalyptic scenarioes that could end the world. There's lots of ideas that you could use in each of them.@@TheLazyFinn
"... it starts like a magic game, but then it turns out it's really tech, and then it turns out the whole thing is post-apocalyptic..." Yoko Taro's games...
One of my favorite twists on apocalypse scenarios is when they are the result of humanity trying to do GOOD, rather than humanity killing itself by its own evil. A solid example is the 2002 film version of The Time Machine directed by HG Well's great-grandson (I know a lot of people don't like that movie, but it's simply a good example for what I'm getting at here) -- there, the moon got destroyed by complete accident during efforts to make the moon habitable. It's a thematically interesting way of differentiating something from most of the rest of the genre.
Before He-Man there was Thundarr the Barbarian. Effing classic early Saturday morning cartoon. Thanks for that memory. I think a meteor split the moon in half or something nuts like that.
Your ideas are an equal part devious and genius, I really like the idea of a super algae bloom that you have to figure out an incredibly convoluted way of stopping throughout an already harsh post-apoc scenario. (Kinda like Kenshi, but there's an overarching "big bad" that earth itself created)
I ran a tabletop Fallout game without really understanding much of the lore, and it was VERY similar to what the plot to Far Harbor ended up being, and then after that game ended I developed but never ran near this exact scenario about an algae superbloom
The introduction was going to involve a challenge to put a flag atop the tallest still-standing rollercoaster in Cedar Point, Ohio, and when the characters got up there they'd see the superbloom to the south
the whole child protagonist thing makes me think of "Among the sleep", it's quite an interesting first person light horror game where the player is a very young child (only a few years old) and allot of the horror aspects come from the child's interpretation of things that take place. I like that game both cause it's good, it's indie and it was made by my Norwegian brothers (Swede here). Not gonna spoil the story, want people to to go and play it for themselves.
If you’re going to group the monsters turns together. I suggest you do away with initiative rolls altogether and let the player play their characters turns in any order. This gives A LOT of tactical freedom and creates a sense that the PCs are a well oiled team. This is how X-Com does it.
WarTales does this in a fun way where there are individual turns, but rather "Player turn, player turn, player turn, enemy unit X turn, Player turn, enemy unit Y turn". Giving player the capacity to use any unit except they already have used that cycle, while also giving foresight on knowing which enemy acts next by keeping the enemy turn order static.
Also, XCOM Chimera Squad (a spinoff game after XCOM 2) changes it up from the normal XCOM formula. Instead of the usual turn-based 'you move all your units this round', it does *_'you move a unit, enemy moves a unit, you move a unit'_* etc. You're always previewing the turn order, so the enemy is still relatively predictable. I'm not sure whether people liked it or not since reception on the whole game was above average/lukewarm (prob more to do with other factors of the game). Generally I think people liked the novelty of the new turn-system since it's a spinoff, though they wouldn't want it in the sequel. The old system is too familiar, and this one if good didn't any blow socks off. It adds another layer of complexity, which I doubt people would want in XCOM 2 or 3 as the battlefield can already get pretty hectic, hard to keep track of even with the normal system. Chimera Squad was slightly simpler, so it worked.
First i wanted to say i appreciate your channel for all the light you shed on all of your works. It really puts things into context and we get a human element out of it that you cant get from a 2nd and 3rd hand sources as well as your personal challenges in said world. Thank you.
Love the way you think Tim. Your real thoughtfulness and care with what you do is really inspiring and motivating. Many thanks for these videos and cheers on whatever you're scheming 😉🤘
Hi Tim, I absolutely love these videos. It’s great to hear how the process behind the scenes goes in some of my favorite games. I am currently playing the Murder on Eridanos DLC and would love to hear any stories about the development on it. I really like how it seems that there is no one straight “right” answer to the ending.
"The year is 1994, from outer space comes a runaway planet, hurtling between the Earth and the Moon, unleashing cosmic destruction...!" I loved that show!
I think the hallmark of a good setting is it makes me think of ideas immediately. I had a ton of them during this video, which I will of course keep to myself :) and games starring children go back at least to the NES era if not further - the protagonist of Mother is 12, Mario is literally a baby in Yoshi's Island, etc.
When you went down your list of different types of apocalypse, it made me think of the ttrpg RIFTS, where several types you listed all happened concurrently, to great effect
A setting I'd love to see expanded on: Dessert Punk. Not desert punk, but a world were a child got a wish and asked for everything to be candy. Now people are scraping by, trying to survive among the sugar-sand dunes, and raiders will kill for your last shot of insulin.
I really want a pure fantasy post-apoc. No SF elements at all. Not only there are very few video games like this, but they also don't really lean into post-apoc tropes like: scacity, struggle to survive, a lot of ruins, etc. The one I like and always comes to mind is Arx Fatalis - I love that game, but even there the setting is more of an excuse to explore this strange new world. The closest such setting I know of is Dark Sun - maybe one day we'll get a proper video game in it, as the old ones don't really count.
Your turn based idea is like crowd movement in solasta, where low level mooks can move simultaneously to save time, but stronger enemies would move individually like normal. I think that system can be refined to reduce the tedium of TB battle.
They also played with it in BG3, calling it Swarm AI. It wasn't received super positively by everyone, but I think it's a great option that the player should be able to activate or not.
It's one of the two main variants for combat initiative - We-Go, instead of I-Go-U-Go. Aka "group initiative", "squad initiative", etc. Neither Solasta nor BG3 came up with it, it's been used in RPGs for decades, both Japanese/E. Asian & Western. There are pen & paper systems that only do group initiative, and several editions of D&D have had it described in the DMG and/or Unearthed Arcana (plus various articles of Dungeon).
@@gargamellenoir8460 Problem is, it's not really about "reducing tedium", or a user-preference, it affects the [combat] game design and the implementation. "WeGo" systems at the table encourage players to coordinate their actions, and usually supports more group-level strategies from the monsters/enemies as well (like flanking, pack tactics, co-op mechanics, etc). In a video game, "WeGo" can put more strain on the CPU, since you're doing all the AI calculations in a batch - not too bad if it's a solo monster, but can get dicey if you have a lot of pieces on the board, with complex AI/pathfinding. (There are dev tricks to moderate this, but they aren't easy to toggle on/off.) Also changes the pacing & feel of the game to be a bit more "I Command the Party" versus "Me & my Companions", if that makes sense. Neither is good or bad, but folks coming from Divinity or older Baldur's Gate games might not have expected that POV change.
Coming up with settings is always fun. Especially if the settings are not as they seem. Years ago when I was still in school I had to write a short story. I made it about two friends in a medieval setting traveling over the mountains. But about halfway through it starts to become clear the setting is the Sierra Nevada, and the weapons they have are a little strange. The main character has a magic staff that burns things and must be recharged in the sun, and the other has an electric whip. But it becomes apparent this is just some sort of energy weapon, and the electric whip is a car battery with jumper cables. I can't write for shit, but sometimes just getting something down feels good.
If you want to check out a space game with excellent exploration, try Freelancer. It's story isn't super special, but the obscure hidden places and dialog with different factions make it one of the best games for sci-fi space-themed exploration. On that note, and to cross over into post-apoc, one of the absolute best of both in recent memory is Kenshi. It's about a world that's been through not one, but three apocalypses, and the sights and people you see and meet make every game a unique and memorable journey, even in the absence of a proper narrative. SsethTzeentach's channel did an impeccable review if you want take a look
I worked on Gears Tactics, we did what I believe is the fastest turn based combat ever without sacrificing readability, enemies still follow a turn order but our ai system would group them up and they would execute the turn together, with some staggered actions, it was quite complex and it involved grouping enemies depending on camera framing and where they wanted to go too, turned out well though!
This video reminds me of an old idea I had for a post climate change rpg, where the main party is a salvage group piloting a submarine and going deep sea diving to find lost technology.
Aliens could be realistic, I agree with you! I think Bethesda's Mothership Zeta was a different take though, it feels a bit more akin to the 50s pop culture Aliens. This is speaking on Fallout of course. Aliens, Ufos crashing, Enclave going to space, some of the AI technologies in Fallout are made by Alien technology. I'm glad you took this video out! Thanks for these videos, god forbid you pass away - but it feels good to know we'll have these to watch and look back to -it feels like we are in a room, just hearing you teach us all about how you became one of the best game creators of all time! People who are bored by this have no idea how awesome it actually is to people who care about the development of games.
I definitely agree with the sentiment of "When it's my turn I don't want anything moving" lmao. I like action games but for RPGs and other games that ask for a lot of thoughtful decisions in character building and combat, I definitely like to have more clearly telegraphed turns so I don't miss what exactly happened without having to check everyone's health and status when I go to pause like in real time RPGs.
I like your idea of the virus engineered by AI. Friend and I spitballed an idea very similar to that back in high school and thought it would be really cool to riff on the ability to produce viruses and get sci-fi with genetic modifications that were caused by other viruses and pathogens. The AI angle you mentioned is great, wish we had considered that then lol
Watching this video right after the mmo storytelling video Tim, you might like Dofus, it is a turn based mmo with tons of classes with each class having several ways to fight. The developer, Ankama, also has also made board games and animated series that are quite good, the lore is pretty deep.
I don’t know if you’ve ever encountered turn based simultaneous action. It’s more of a strategy game system but might be interesting for RPG. The player and AI have an infinitely paused period to plan out actions. Player hits “go” button and the actions play out in real time for a set amount of time (I’m used to 60 seconds) in which both player and AI enemies act according to orders and the player can only watch but not interfere until the real time is over. Units move at varying speeds and with levels of delay according to initiative or can be manually told to delay. Really interesting system. It can be brutal when you blunder into an ambush and have to watch it play out for 60 seconds.
8:06 Heh this reminds me of the little sister level from Bioshock 2. Love your ideas, Tim! I hope we'll see more of them turned into actual games one day.
You know I had a cool idea, that I know works very well on table top. So a number of games have this rule, think the first I saw it was Wraith, but I bet it was in Vampire and stuff as well. This simple rule is that everyone role init, and the lowest Init says what they plan to do first, and so on, and the one with highest gets to say what they do last. People with worse init can change their action for a penalty.
post-apocalyptic is one of my all-time favorite scenarios to create setting, if done well, the options are extreeemely dynamic, obviously Beyond Thunderdome at 8 years old was a huge impact
revelations IS about the sun going micronova and there being plasm+coronal ejection materia raining across the solar system, during which there will be a pole-shift (90 degree axis shift)
the game (one of the greatest games ever, great story/narrative and gameplay, characters, settings) - spoilers ahead a bit The Longest Journey is about the world as we know it, kind of, a near-future of this world, modern cities and tech and college life and whatever, and that there is a parallel world, one of magic, and the worlds are kept separate by magic but there is a problem and the two worlds start to overlap, at times, for moments, and it gets worse and worse
I like the sudden magic post-apocalyptic, something similar was done fantastically in an anime called shinsenkai yori (English name "from the new world" if I recall correctly), where humans suddenly began developing psychic powers that were so extremely dangerous is it basically ended up destroying the world. There's lots of scenes of this process taking place, entire cities are wiped out and giant explosions, there's some new emperor demanding his subjects continue clapping at his Ascension and the first 100 to stop would be instantly vaporized, that kind of stuff. Humans barely ended up surviving through genetic manipulation and intensive psychological examination, basically every single human being has these incredible world ending psychic powers, but their entire childhood is rigorous psychological testing, there is this even this genetic Killswitch whenver a human ends up knowingly harming another human. There's so many cool ideas in there like genetically-engineered slave races that don't have psychic powers, a revolution of said individuals, and so much more. I really don't want to end up spoiling anything more to someone who might watch it The magic and the psychic powers feel pretty distinct flavor-wise, but I imagine it might be a similar concept to that idea is really cool and I recommend the anime!
I think in Tim's categories, Shin Sekai Yori would be evolution: the psychic people who don't want us around anymore. 12:05 For a post-apocalyptic setting caused by the sudden introduction of magic, Nier is what comes to my mind. Magic crossing over from Drakengard's world led to people becoming pillars of salt.
a setting idea I have is a saturday morning cartoon and you're background characters trying to cause as much mayhem before the episode ends and your choices dont matter
I've never read Lord of Light, the SF book that blew my mind was Frank Herbert's Dune, and it's a dream of mine to one day play a classic CRPG in that universe.
3:17 There's a PS1 game called Suikoden 2 that does this. Both for computer-chars and player-chars. It's awesome to watch it play out, and speeds-up battles SO much.
Talk about ideas being a dime a dozen, when you mentioned the magic world that, surprise, was really a tech post apoc world, it was pretty much word for word and idea I came up with on my own (from what I can tell) for a tabletop campaign
Love the shirt, Tim! I was wondering what your vision was for Shady Sands turning into the NCR. Do you like how it evolved in Fallout 2 and in New Vegas? What would you have done differently?
A representation of a dozen major areas, say from above. Dissolve into the true representation of the current or most recently visited area. Then pan out across all visited areas, maybe with as yet unvisited areas in blur or shadow or mist.
It's pretty heartwarming when you talk about finding your ideas in other games and not blaming them for it because they might've had them independently... meanwhile, to this day, there've been quite a few games that are actively trying to copy Fallout (1-2) in almost every way 😂 imitation is the highest form of flattery!
Hi Tim, these videos have been amazing, its the first thing I watch in the morning. Please keep doing them, there great to see for developers and gamers alike.
Do I ever remember Thundarr the Barbarian, one of the weirdest science fiction/fantasy shows I watched while growing up. It had one of my favorite villains, Mindok, a green brain kept within I think an astronaut suit helmet? Weird, so weird and almost like a cosmic evil, with him wanting a new body and to go into space on a spaceship.
i also like a "it wasn't earth all along" story, for example i wrote one where it's a post apocalypse on a generation ship, but no-one knows that anymore, so the reader at least assumes it's earth until later when mysteries are revealed and stuff.
"... it starts like a magic game, but then it turns out it's really tech, and then it turns out the whole thing is post-apocalyptic..." So, The Age of Decadence? Roman-esque post-apoc future with tech-as-magic? The "all enemies at once" can be overwhelming, but Solasta did great. I think some sort of backtracking, like the enemy leaving footprints that diagetic-ally show its original position from the previous turn, and the player option to adjust the speed of this feature or even turn it off altogether. Vampire Survivors but space ship. Next week, on several channels and on Steam. Great twist to a setting while keeping the core gameplay concept.
I guess I've started thinking of blending the Nikola Tesla lore with Adapa mythology from the Mesopotamians, as kind of an origin story for humans in a science-fantasy or arcanepunk setting.
Hi Tim. I've seen a couple of your videos, and they're very interesting so far. I wanted to ask a few questions about Outer Worlds, a game which I was personally disappointed by. You've done some really great work, and I just want to understand the thought process or business realities that led to the following choices: Why is there so little enemy/weapon variety in the game? After seeing two planets I had already seen every single enemy type (save for some recolours in the DLCs) the game had to offer. The same was true of weapons, though obviously there you put in science weapons, which to me felt quite gimmicky. Why was it that the same three decisions, "Help corp"/"Help independent"/"Reconciliation" were present throughout every significant quest the entire game? Phrased another way, why the switch towards a formulaic outlook on quest design? Why wasn't more done with what was actually an incredible setting? There was so much good in the setting of outer worlds, the sardonic humour of Fallout, the dynamic between the corp, the people living in the system and the impending doom of the colony, the actual story outlines for pretty much every area, but the execution was shallow, cartoonish and fell flat. I know this is more of an assertion than a question, but I doubt you would have the time to read through a whole paragraph justifying it. I know this will read as a very critical set of questions, and hope you will, despite this, read this comment in the tone it was intended.
@@cmdr.jabozerstorer3968 FNV had far more of both weapon variety and enemy variety than Outer Worlds despite an insanely tight release schedule. Though they did have existing assets from F3 to work with.
I think that's why I prefer Real-Time with Pause over Turn-based, I can pause the action and make my choices per character at the same time, without the turns being an issue. With turn-based, it takes me out a bit when each enemy takes their turn. In real-time they could easy just take my character without waiting for a turn. I know overwatch does sort of allow for this a bit but it's not always a compromose. I do love Turned-based though. A Plague Tale also has a child in it, who can die.
6:00 Heh, I've never heard a criticism of the Terminator universe in this vein, though you have a point. I wonder what your thoughts would be on The Matrix and its 'humans as batteries' concept.
The Matrix is as successful as it is because it's not entirely non-fiction. The Matrix is a metaphor for the world we actually live in. It's "postapocalyptic" fiction done right. I think that's why Outer Worlds didn't connect with as many people as Obsidian perhaps thought it would. If a fictional world is so divorced from reality that people literally can't relate to it, then they won't find it relatable or relevant to them. Its anti-capitalistic sentiment and ideology (as opposed to anything, say, humanistic) holds it back, I think. Most of the criticism revolves around Outer Worlds essentially having told a single joke with a single punchline for 30 hours. People are saying, "Yeah, yeah. We get it. Corporations=bad or evil," though corporations are actually "new forms of impersonal, collective self, which are very good at preserving themselves and increasing their power, quite apart from the personal motivations of the individuals who serve them," as David Loy put it. "So why does so much of the story revolve around putting the 'right' people in charge of a dystopian nightmare?" That kind of thing.
Hey Tim, Great video as always! I was wondering, Im trying to make some plans to run a Fallout TTRPG with the Cypher System, but I wanted to make in a country I know...so my home country of Australia. I wont ask for your thoughts on what happened to Australia in Fallout; but I was wondering if you had creative advice for me on where to start? Iv rewatched your videos on Fallout a few times and taken notes, but I seem to still be hitting a brick wall when it comes to what the country looks like, and what the party would be up against... I just default too Mad Max. :/ Any advice?
I would love to have another flooded world. I enjoyed Raft and Subnautica pretty much these days. Raft was kind of unfair survival so I played it on easy. But Subnautica, I am in love.
I truly want to see a Thundarr the Barbarian game. Let's make it an actual, licensed, Thundarr game. Or maybe not, because nobody would do it justice. The apocalypse in Thundarr was caused by a "runaway planet" that passed too close to the Earth, causing massive destruction.
I had one post-apoc idea where a magnetic field flip had destroyed all the technology that had distanced human relationships, which resulted in chaos when people had to encounter each other face to face again xD
I'm working on a post-apocalyptic game and am testing out turns that last a certain time but every character has a reaction time that dictates how many actions they can take and this can be upgraded with cybernetics, training and drugs. Then you can chain up turns and everything happens simultaneously. Also the cause for the end of the world is that scientists were doing a physics experiment to discover a clean energy source that broke the laws of physics, destroying satellites, setting off nuclear weapons in silos and mutating people. Nations don't know what the fuck is going on and can't talk to each other and just start launching.
Can you weigh in on Unity vs Unreal for beginners? I work in the film biz and wanna learn more about gaming. Unity seems much more approachable, but Unreal has use in the Film Biz as well…
Curious what you think on an 8th apocalypse- “discovery” wherein humanity makes a scientific breakthrough or discovers an ancient technology that leads to downfall
hello Tim, I have a question about the setting of Fallout 2. I know you left pretty early on into the creation of that game, but I think you've spoken about the setting for that game and how it was before you left. My question is: Why don't the inhabitants of Arroyo just leave and go somewhere with water when they all live in tents and live a hunter-gatherer lifestyle?
I often think about a different post-apocalyptic scenario that is economic. Basically it becomes too expensive to raise children so most people stop having kids. Eventually populations start to dip so low that outlying areas are abandoned in favor of ever shrinking cities. In this society things would become increasingly automated, since human labor is incredibly expensive. Very rarely would people interact with other people, but instead interact with vending machines and automated services. No cash, everything is done via a swipe of a card. People might not even really have jobs; as they have owned and inherited an increasing amount of investments from their relatives and can just live off of dividends. The players apocalyptic scenario could be as simple as their town being abandoned and they miss the last train to the city.
Also, in case you ever need a 3D artist for any of your game prototypes, I'm right here. 10/10 would work just for the coolness of it. Haha, joking of course! ... unless?..
If you wanna talk about games with a child main character and absolutely gruesome deaths look no further than Eric Chahi's 1998 adventure, Heart of Darkness. Absolutely loved that game as a kid (and Another World) but looking back at the brutality of the death animations I can't help but wonder who approved that E for Everyone rating. "Animated Violence" the box says.
"Whoever thinks my semi-retirement is boring, you're wrong!"
You give me such hope for my future. I drown in the negativity of our industry and you are 1000% a delight to listen to.
> I drown in the negativity of our industry
Does the reception of Baldur's Gate 3 make you feel better?
For your turn-based combat conundrum, maybe look at Gears Tactics. Under the hood it seems that all enemy units have initiative and move in order, but they do it in a simulated copy of the game world to figure out the actions. That way the scenario when two units approach the player character, the first one kills them and the second one doesn't have anything to do anymore doesn't happen, because the second one knows the results of the first one's actions. Once all the enemy turns end in the simulated world, the actions are played out in the regular game world all at once (movement speed is somehow adjusted to avoid units crashing into each other), making it quick and visually interesting for the player.
Love the idea of a cloud of space spores just descending over most of the planet and terraforming it.
Absolutely horrifying to imagine.
Thundarr! :) One of the best intros in animated TV. That one was a rogue planet that messed up the earth and the moon, sort of a natural upheaval I guess. Some of Fromsoft's games are about you sort of arriving after a decline, a few of them are like society is based on shaky foundations and eventually collapses by its very nature, or it's being torn at all angles by warring powers and just sort of breaks under the pressure of the ruling body trying to continue its own existence. They remind me of how up until like the late 1800s to early 1900s people often thought of geological changes as sudden, massive events, but we learned that it often happens through gradual change over a great period of time, with a few major events as punctuation. So many ways for the world to end :)
I'm working on an updated version of my Post Apocalyptic Writing Guide, and I've managed to come up with 50 different end of the world scenarioes. Best of luck with your project!
Jeez that's a lot of ideas! I've been rolling around an idea of my own cause I love post apocm but I don't think I could come up with 50!
Oh this isn't specific ideas, this is just 50 individual apocalyptic scenarioes that could end the world. There's lots of ideas that you could use in each of them.@@TheLazyFinn
@@JJShurte but still, that's a lot!
"... it starts like a magic game, but then it turns out it's really tech, and then it turns out the whole thing is post-apocalyptic..."
Yoko Taro's games...
One of my favorite twists on apocalypse scenarios is when they are the result of humanity trying to do GOOD, rather than humanity killing itself by its own evil. A solid example is the 2002 film version of The Time Machine directed by HG Well's great-grandson (I know a lot of people don't like that movie, but it's simply a good example for what I'm getting at here) -- there, the moon got destroyed by complete accident during efforts to make the moon habitable. It's a thematically interesting way of differentiating something from most of the rest of the genre.
'The road to hell is paved with good intentions' has probably inspired more than its fair share of great fiction.
Before He-Man there was Thundarr the Barbarian. Effing classic early Saturday morning cartoon. Thanks for that memory.
I think a meteor split the moon in half or something nuts like that.
I love hearing your ideas. They're absolutely off the hook
Your ideas are an equal part devious and genius, I really like the idea of a super algae bloom that you have to figure out an incredibly convoluted way of stopping throughout an already harsh post-apoc scenario. (Kinda like Kenshi, but there's an overarching "big bad" that earth itself created)
I ran a tabletop Fallout game without really understanding much of the lore, and it was VERY similar to what the plot to Far Harbor ended up being, and then after that game ended I developed but never ran near this exact scenario about an algae superbloom
The introduction was going to involve a challenge to put a flag atop the tallest still-standing rollercoaster in Cedar Point, Ohio, and when the characters got up there they'd see the superbloom to the south
the whole child protagonist thing makes me think of "Among the sleep", it's quite an interesting first person light horror game where the player is a very young child (only a few years old) and allot of the horror aspects come from the child's interpretation of things that take place. I like that game both cause it's good, it's indie and it was made by my Norwegian brothers (Swede here). Not gonna spoil the story, want people to to go and play it for themselves.
If you’re going to group the monsters turns together. I suggest you do away with initiative rolls altogether and let the player play their characters turns in any order. This gives A LOT of tactical freedom and creates a sense that the PCs are a well oiled team.
This is how X-Com does it.
WarTales does this in a fun way where there are individual turns, but rather "Player turn, player turn, player turn, enemy unit X turn, Player turn, enemy unit Y turn". Giving player the capacity to use any unit except they already have used that cycle, while also giving foresight on knowing which enemy acts next by keeping the enemy turn order static.
Also, XCOM Chimera Squad (a spinoff game after XCOM 2) changes it up from the normal XCOM formula.
Instead of the usual turn-based 'you move all your units this round', it does *_'you move a unit, enemy moves a unit, you move a unit'_* etc. You're always previewing the turn order, so the enemy is still relatively predictable.
I'm not sure whether people liked it or not since reception on the whole game was above average/lukewarm (prob more to do with other factors of the game). Generally I think people liked the novelty of the new turn-system since it's a spinoff, though they wouldn't want it in the sequel. The old system is too familiar, and this one if good didn't any blow socks off.
It adds another layer of complexity, which I doubt people would want in XCOM 2 or 3 as the battlefield can already get pretty hectic, hard to keep track of even with the normal system. Chimera Squad was slightly simpler, so it worked.
It's a classic "WeGo" / group-initiative system, used by a lot of tactical games & TTRPG systems. Fire Emblem, as opposed to FFT.
Fantastic list of post-apocalyptic scenarios. As always, I have enjoyed your video. Thanks for taking the time to make them!
Like the idea of a ship styled Vampire Survivors game actually.
First i wanted to say i appreciate your channel for all the light you shed on all of your works. It really puts things into context and we get a human element out of it that you cant get from a 2nd and 3rd hand sources as well as your personal challenges in said world. Thank you.
Love the way you think Tim. Your real thoughtfulness and care with what you do is really inspiring and motivating. Many thanks for these videos and cheers on whatever you're scheming 😉🤘
Hi Tim, I absolutely love these videos. It’s great to hear how the process behind the scenes goes in some of my favorite games. I am currently playing the Murder on Eridanos DLC and would love to hear any stories about the development on it. I really like how it seems that there is no one straight “right” answer to the ending.
Fantastic expansion, that one!
"The year is 1994, from outer space comes a runaway planet, hurtling between the Earth and the Moon, unleashing cosmic destruction...!" I loved that show!
I think the hallmark of a good setting is it makes me think of ideas immediately. I had a ton of them during this video, which I will of course keep to myself :) and games starring children go back at least to the NES era if not further - the protagonist of Mother is 12, Mario is literally a baby in Yoshi's Island, etc.
Always enjoy hearing your thoughts, Tim
When you went down your list of different types of apocalypse, it made me think of the ttrpg RIFTS, where several types you listed all happened concurrently, to great effect
A setting I'd love to see expanded on: Dessert Punk. Not desert punk, but a world were a child got a wish and asked for everything to be candy. Now people are scraping by, trying to survive among the sugar-sand dunes, and raiders will kill for your last shot of insulin.
Lmao, that sounds like a Rick and Morty episode!
I really want a pure fantasy post-apoc.
No SF elements at all.
Not only there are very few video games like this, but they also don't really lean into post-apoc tropes like: scacity, struggle to survive, a lot of ruins, etc.
The one I like and always comes to mind is Arx Fatalis - I love that game, but even there the setting is more of an excuse to explore this strange new world.
The closest such setting I know of is Dark Sun - maybe one day we'll get a proper video game in it, as the old ones don't really count.
Stealing this idea, ty...
Tim: I wrote this 20 years ago
Me: Ok 1993 got it
Tim: So 2003
Me: Oh no
Your turn based idea is like crowd movement in solasta, where low level mooks can move simultaneously to save time, but stronger enemies would move individually like normal. I think that system can be refined to reduce the tedium of TB battle.
The excellent Escalon games have a similar turn based mechanic as well.
They also played with it in BG3, calling it Swarm AI. It wasn't received super positively by everyone, but I think it's a great option that the player should be able to activate or not.
It's one of the two main variants for combat initiative - We-Go, instead of I-Go-U-Go. Aka "group initiative", "squad initiative", etc. Neither Solasta nor BG3 came up with it, it's been used in RPGs for decades, both Japanese/E. Asian & Western. There are pen & paper systems that only do group initiative, and several editions of D&D have had it described in the DMG and/or Unearthed Arcana (plus various articles of Dungeon).
@@gargamellenoir8460 Problem is, it's not really about "reducing tedium", or a user-preference, it affects the [combat] game design and the implementation. "WeGo" systems at the table encourage players to coordinate their actions, and usually supports more group-level strategies from the monsters/enemies as well (like flanking, pack tactics, co-op mechanics, etc). In a video game, "WeGo" can put more strain on the CPU, since you're doing all the AI calculations in a batch - not too bad if it's a solo monster, but can get dicey if you have a lot of pieces on the board, with complex AI/pathfinding. (There are dev tricks to moderate this, but they aren't easy to toggle on/off.)
Also changes the pacing & feel of the game to be a bit more "I Command the Party" versus "Me & my Companions", if that makes sense. Neither is good or bad, but folks coming from Divinity or older Baldur's Gate games might not have expected that POV change.
Coming up with settings is always fun. Especially if the settings are not as they seem. Years ago when I was still in school I had to write a short story. I made it about two friends in a medieval setting traveling over the mountains. But about halfway through it starts to become clear the setting is the Sierra Nevada, and the weapons they have are a little strange. The main character has a magic staff that burns things and must be recharged in the sun, and the other has an electric whip. But it becomes apparent this is just some sort of energy weapon, and the electric whip is a car battery with jumper cables.
I can't write for shit, but sometimes just getting something down feels good.
If you want to check out a space game with excellent exploration, try Freelancer.
It's story isn't super special, but the obscure hidden places and dialog with different factions make it one of the best games for sci-fi space-themed exploration.
On that note, and to cross over into post-apoc, one of the absolute best of both in recent memory is Kenshi. It's about a world that's been through not one, but three apocalypses, and the sights and people you see and meet make every game a unique and memorable journey, even in the absence of a proper narrative.
SsethTzeentach's channel did an impeccable review if you want take a look
wow just opened youtube and 42 seconds in here I am. Thanks Tim!
Dude so many artists would love to work with a legend such as yourself!
Don't think Starfield, think TIMFIELD!
I worked on Gears Tactics, we did what I believe is the fastest turn based combat ever without sacrificing readability, enemies still follow a turn order but our ai system would group them up and they would execute the turn together, with some staggered actions, it was quite complex and it involved grouping enemies depending on camera framing and where they wanted to go too, turned out well though!
This video reminds me of an old idea I had for a post climate change rpg, where the main party is a salvage group piloting a submarine and going deep sea diving to find lost technology.
Perfect timing! I was just thinking today on a setting for my GURPS campaign.
Aliens could be realistic, I agree with you! I think Bethesda's Mothership Zeta was a different take though, it feels a bit more akin to the 50s pop culture Aliens. This is speaking on Fallout of course.
Aliens, Ufos crashing, Enclave going to space, some of the AI technologies in Fallout are made by Alien technology. I'm glad you took this video out!
Thanks for these videos, god forbid you pass away - but it feels good to know we'll have these to watch and look back to -it feels like we are in a room, just hearing you teach us all about how you became one of the best game creators of all time!
People who are bored by this have no idea how awesome it actually is to people who care about the development of games.
I definitely agree with the sentiment of "When it's my turn I don't want anything moving" lmao. I like action games but for RPGs and other games that ask for a lot of thoughtful decisions in character building and combat, I definitely like to have more clearly telegraphed turns so I don't miss what exactly happened without having to check everyone's health and status when I go to pause like in real time RPGs.
I like your idea of the virus engineered by AI. Friend and I spitballed an idea very similar to that back in high school and thought it would be really cool to riff on the ability to produce viruses and get sci-fi with genetic modifications that were caused by other viruses and pathogens. The AI angle you mentioned is great, wish we had considered that then lol
The you go, they go approach certainly seems to work well in traditional roguelikes.
My partner listens to Fall Out Boy for comfort. Me? I listen to Fallout Guy.
The magic fantasy world with a sci-fi apocalypse twist sounds an awful lot like Might & Magic. I'd love to see more though it's a cool take
Watching this video right after the mmo storytelling video
Tim, you might like Dofus, it is a turn based mmo with tons of classes with each class having several ways to fight. The developer, Ankama, also has also made board games and animated series that are quite good, the lore is pretty deep.
3:06 "Just. Stand. Still!" lol Super mutant taunt for the ages.
I don’t know if you’ve ever encountered turn based simultaneous action. It’s more of a strategy game system but might be interesting for RPG.
The player and AI have an infinitely paused period to plan out actions. Player hits “go” button and the actions play out in real time for a set amount of time (I’m used to 60 seconds) in which both player and AI enemies act according to orders and the player can only watch but not interfere until the real time is over. Units move at varying speeds and with levels of delay according to initiative or can be manually told to delay.
Really interesting system. It can be brutal when you blunder into an ambush and have to watch it play out for 60 seconds.
Thanks for sharing, Tim!
8:06 Heh this reminds me of the little sister level from Bioshock 2. Love your ideas, Tim! I hope we'll see more of them turned into actual games one day.
You know I had a cool idea, that I know works very well on table top. So a number of games have this rule, think the first I saw it was Wraith, but I bet it was in Vampire and stuff as well. This simple rule is that everyone role init, and the lowest Init says what they plan to do first, and so on, and the one with highest gets to say what they do last. People with worse init can change their action for a penalty.
If you are looking for a Pixel artist for your space game don't be shy to reach out 😊
post-apocalyptic is one of my all-time favorite scenarios to create setting, if done well, the options are extreeemely dynamic, obviously
Beyond Thunderdome at 8 years old was a huge impact
revelations IS about the sun going micronova and there being plasm+coronal ejection materia raining across the solar system, during which there will be a pole-shift (90 degree axis shift)
Howard the Duck and subsequent demonic invasion!
the game (one of the greatest games ever, great story/narrative and gameplay, characters, settings) - spoilers ahead a bit
The Longest Journey
is about the world as we know it, kind of, a near-future of this world, modern cities and tech and college life and whatever, and that there is a parallel world, one of magic, and the worlds are kept separate by magic but there is a problem and the two worlds start to overlap, at times, for moments, and it gets worse and worse
Reign of Fire is a great one
I like the sudden magic post-apocalyptic, something similar was done fantastically in an anime called shinsenkai yori (English name "from the new world" if I recall correctly), where humans suddenly began developing psychic powers that were so extremely dangerous is it basically ended up destroying the world. There's lots of scenes of this process taking place, entire cities are wiped out and giant explosions, there's some new emperor demanding his subjects continue clapping at his Ascension and the first 100 to stop would be instantly vaporized, that kind of stuff. Humans barely ended up surviving through genetic manipulation and intensive psychological examination, basically every single human being has these incredible world ending psychic powers, but their entire childhood is rigorous psychological testing, there is this even this genetic Killswitch whenver a human ends up knowingly harming another human. There's so many cool ideas in there like genetically-engineered slave races that don't have psychic powers, a revolution of said individuals, and so much more. I really don't want to end up spoiling anything more to someone who might watch it
The magic and the psychic powers feel pretty distinct flavor-wise, but I imagine it might be a similar concept to that idea is really cool and I recommend the anime!
I think in Tim's categories, Shin Sekai Yori would be evolution: the psychic people who don't want us around anymore. 12:05
For a post-apocalyptic setting caused by the sudden introduction of magic, Nier is what comes to my mind. Magic crossing over from Drakengard's world led to people becoming pillars of salt.
a setting idea I have is a saturday morning cartoon and you're background characters trying to cause as much mayhem before the episode ends and your choices dont matter
I've never read Lord of Light, the SF book that blew my mind was Frank Herbert's Dune, and it's a dream of mine to one day play a classic CRPG in that universe.
3:17 There's a PS1 game called Suikoden 2 that does this. Both for computer-chars and player-chars. It's awesome to watch it play out, and speeds-up battles SO much.
The sci-fi/fantasy setting idea reminds me a lot of Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun. I'd absolutely love to see your spin on a setting like that.
I know I am too late to this video but the "illusion vs the real world" thing was done so well in We Happy Few title, you should def play it !
Talk about ideas being a dime a dozen, when you mentioned the magic world that, surprise, was really a tech post apoc world, it was pretty much word for word and idea I came up with on my own (from what I can tell) for a tabletop campaign
Love the shirt, Tim! I was wondering what your vision was for Shady Sands turning into the NCR. Do you like how it evolved in Fallout 2 and in New Vegas? What would you have done differently?
Im kind of interested in a fantasy take on alta/spanish california like from the Zorro comics and shows
I can't wait for the Tim Cain "Tim-field" release
I remember Thundar, i only ever found out about it because Adventure Time was similar
The dual art style death reveal is absolute genius!
(Now we know *why* you hate artists Tim. 😂
It needn't have been more work than the usual end slides.
A representation of a dozen major areas, say from above. Dissolve into the true representation of the current or most recently visited area. Then pan out across all visited areas, maybe with as yet unvisited areas in blur or shadow or mist.
It's pretty heartwarming when you talk about finding your ideas in other games and not blaming them for it because they might've had them independently... meanwhile, to this day, there've been quite a few games that are actively trying to copy Fallout (1-2) in almost every way 😂 imitation is the highest form of flattery!
Hi Tim, these videos have been amazing, its the first thing I watch in the morning. Please keep doing them, there great to see for developers and gamers alike.
How do you deal with the fact that not every idea can be made? How do you decide what gets left in the notebook?
There are always too many ideas to get made. Ideas are the easy part. Execution is the difficult part.
Do I ever remember Thundarr the Barbarian, one of the weirdest science fiction/fantasy shows I watched while growing up. It had one of my favorite villains, Mindok, a green brain kept within I think an astronaut suit helmet? Weird, so weird and almost like a cosmic evil, with him wanting a new body and to go into space on a spaceship.
Whenever it was time to leave for a trip my dad would say "Ookla! Ariel! Ride!" to me and my sister.
@@thebolas000 That's awesome.
i also like a "it wasn't earth all along" story, for example i wrote one where it's a post apocalypse on a generation ship, but no-one knows that anymore, so the reader at least assumes it's earth until later when mysteries are revealed and stuff.
"... it starts like a magic game, but then it turns out it's really tech, and then it turns out the whole thing is post-apocalyptic..."
So, The Age of Decadence? Roman-esque post-apoc future with tech-as-magic?
The "all enemies at once" can be overwhelming, but Solasta did great. I think some sort of backtracking, like the enemy leaving footprints that diagetic-ally show its original position from the previous turn, and the player option to adjust the speed of this feature or even turn it off altogether.
Vampire Survivors but space ship. Next week, on several channels and on Steam. Great twist to a setting while keeping the core gameplay concept.
I guess I've started thinking of blending the Nikola Tesla lore with Adapa mythology from the Mesopotamians, as kind of an origin story for humans in a science-fantasy or arcanepunk setting.
Gear Tactics and Wartales both do that thing where group of enemies will move together, usually a group of the same kind of enemies
i'm glad you're in the ncr camp!
Hi Tim. I've seen a couple of your videos, and they're very interesting so far. I wanted to ask a few questions about Outer Worlds, a game which I was personally disappointed by. You've done some really great work, and I just want to understand the thought process or business realities that led to the following choices:
Why is there so little enemy/weapon variety in the game? After seeing two planets I had already seen every single enemy type (save for some recolours in the DLCs) the game had to offer. The same was true of weapons, though obviously there you put in science weapons, which to me felt quite gimmicky.
Why was it that the same three decisions, "Help corp"/"Help independent"/"Reconciliation" were present throughout every significant quest the entire game? Phrased another way, why the switch towards a formulaic outlook on quest design?
Why wasn't more done with what was actually an incredible setting? There was so much good in the setting of outer worlds, the sardonic humour of Fallout, the dynamic between the corp, the people living in the system and the impending doom of the colony, the actual story outlines for pretty much every area, but the execution was shallow, cartoonish and fell flat. I know this is more of an assertion than a question, but I doubt you would have the time to read through a whole paragraph justifying it.
I know this will read as a very critical set of questions, and hope you will, despite this, read this comment in the tone it was intended.
Fallout: New Vegas only had a few set enemies and weapons types. Nobody complains about it there.
@@cmdr.jabozerstorer3968 FNV had far more of both weapon variety and enemy variety than Outer Worlds despite an insanely tight release schedule. Though they did have existing assets from F3 to work with.
Vampire survivors with a ship....... Mr. Cain... Tim... please, I need that now.
Your Vampire Survivors in space game sounds like Void Scrappers. Pretty fun version of VS.
You've really put a lot of thought into the end of the world, Tim 😀
Fran Bow is a game that does a great job with the altered 'same' locations
I think that's why I prefer Real-Time with Pause over Turn-based, I can pause the action and make my choices per character at the same time, without the turns being an issue. With turn-based, it takes me out a bit when each enemy takes their turn. In real-time they could easy just take my character without waiting for a turn. I know overwatch does sort of allow for this a bit but it's not always a compromose.
I do love Turned-based though.
A Plague Tale also has a child in it, who can die.
Some of these ideas reminds me of homeworld, really underrated concept of aliens far away from the milky way descendents from humans
6:00 Heh, I've never heard a criticism of the Terminator universe in this vein, though you have a point. I wonder what your thoughts would be on The Matrix and its 'humans as batteries' concept.
The Matrix is as successful as it is because it's not entirely non-fiction. The Matrix is a metaphor for the world we actually live in. It's "postapocalyptic" fiction done right. I think that's why Outer Worlds didn't connect with as many people as Obsidian perhaps thought it would. If a fictional world is so divorced from reality that people literally can't relate to it, then they won't find it relatable or relevant to them. Its anti-capitalistic sentiment and ideology (as opposed to anything, say, humanistic) holds it back, I think. Most of the criticism revolves around Outer Worlds essentially having told a single joke with a single punchline for 30 hours. People are saying, "Yeah, yeah. We get it. Corporations=bad or evil," though corporations are actually "new forms of impersonal, collective self, which are very good at preserving themselves and increasing their power, quite apart from the personal motivations of the individuals who serve them," as David Loy put it. "So why does so much of the story revolve around putting the 'right' people in charge of a dystopian nightmare?" That kind of thing.
At the start Tim describing his own game sounds like Starsector great game to look into.
Also creating something myself that would be a new a turn based way to play like describes. Really fun to try and find new ways to play old genres.
Hey Tim,
Great video as always!
I was wondering, Im trying to make some plans to run a Fallout TTRPG with the Cypher System, but I wanted to make in a country I know...so my home country of Australia. I wont ask for your thoughts on what happened to Australia in Fallout; but I was wondering if you had creative advice for me on where to start? Iv rewatched your videos on Fallout a few times and taken notes, but I seem to still be hitting a brick wall when it comes to what the country looks like, and what the party would be up against... I just default too Mad Max. :/
Any advice?
I would love to have another flooded world. I enjoyed Raft and Subnautica pretty much these days. Raft was kind of unfair survival so I played it on easy. But Subnautica, I am in love.
I truly want to see a Thundarr the Barbarian game. Let's make it an actual, licensed, Thundarr game. Or maybe not, because nobody would do it justice.
The apocalypse in Thundarr was caused by a "runaway planet" that passed too close to the Earth, causing massive destruction.
I had one post-apoc idea where a magnetic field flip had destroyed all the technology that had distanced human relationships, which resulted in chaos when people had to encounter each other face to face again xD
I'm working on a post-apocalyptic game and am testing out turns that last a certain time but every character has a reaction time that dictates how many actions they can take and this can be upgraded with cybernetics, training and drugs. Then you can chain up turns and everything happens simultaneously.
Also the cause for the end of the world is that scientists were doing a physics experiment to discover a clean energy source that broke the laws of physics, destroying satellites, setting off nuclear weapons in silos and mutating people. Nations don't know what the fuck is going on and can't talk to each other and just start launching.
Ecological upset post apocalyptic setting combined with a solar punk aesthetic could be cool
Can you weigh in on Unity vs Unreal for beginners? I work in the film biz and wanna learn more about gaming. Unity seems much more approachable, but Unreal has use in the Film Biz as well…
Curious what you think on an 8th apocalypse- “discovery” wherein humanity makes a scientific breakthrough or discovers an ancient technology that leads to downfall
Solders at war had the best video game turn based action point system in any game I've ever seen.
what makes it so good? there doesn't seem to be much written on it from my initial search
I want to make a game inspired by the Road Warrior one day, I need to come up with a back story of my own for it tho
hello Tim, I have a question about the setting of Fallout 2. I know you left pretty early on into the creation of that game, but I think you've spoken about the setting for that game and how it was before you left. My question is: Why don't the inhabitants of Arroyo just leave and go somewhere with water when they all live in tents and live a hunter-gatherer lifestyle?
Heart of Darkness for PS1 is another great one with shadow monsters eating the kid
pathfinder kingmaker released with a combat system similar to what you described, later they implemented real turn based
A giant meteor passing between the Earth and The Moon, disrupting the orbits of both causes the apocalypse in THUNDARR…
I wondered if one couldn’t do combat kinda like Superhot does: everyone moves only when you do.
Sort of a different real-time with pause.
What about Fallout timers? Would love to hear about them.
into the breach handles turn based combat better than any other game i’ve played
FTL with a deeper story and RPG mechanics?
I often think about a different post-apocalyptic scenario that is economic. Basically it becomes too expensive to raise children so most people stop having kids. Eventually populations start to dip so low that outlying areas are abandoned in favor of ever shrinking cities. In this society things would become increasingly automated, since human labor is incredibly expensive. Very rarely would people interact with other people, but instead interact with vending machines and automated services. No cash, everything is done via a swipe of a card. People might not even really have jobs; as they have owned and inherited an increasing amount of investments from their relatives and can just live off of dividends.
The players apocalyptic scenario could be as simple as their town being abandoned and they miss the last train to the city.
setting idea: let's let the player be able to change the sensitivity of the mouse and rebind the keys on their keyboard
Nice NCR shirt!
Also, in case you ever need a 3D artist for any of your game prototypes, I'm right here. 10/10 would work just for the coolness of it. Haha, joking of course! ... unless?..
That spaceship game sounds rather like Space Rangers, than Starfield (if you're familiar with it). Starsector is the second that comes to mind
If you wanna talk about games with a child main character and absolutely gruesome deaths look no further than Eric Chahi's 1998 adventure, Heart of Darkness. Absolutely loved that game as a kid (and Another World) but looking back at the brutality of the death animations I can't help but wonder who approved that E for Everyone rating. "Animated Violence" the box says.