Plaxtons of that age bring back so many memories of school trips. The nylon moquette on the seats, the headrests with the leather inserts on the back, the very obviously imitation wood laminates, the big windows with the rubber grommets, the soft lino on the floor ...
This took me back to when I was at school. Shaws of Maxey had two Bedford Paramount 3200’s in their fleet of Paxton bodied Bedfords in the early 90’s. I can still hear the sound of the engine at motorway speeds along the A1 from Wittering through to the A47, then along the back roads through to my school. Thank you for sharing this video.
Very pleasant, Bedfords and Fords were the mainstay of the independents, I grew up with those of Grayscroft and Applebys. Too many enthusiasts tend to disregard them in favour of heavyweight stuff so its good to see some saved.Sadly, by the time I started at the former after over a decade at RoadCar with Tigers ( a thoroughly enjoyable vehicle) etc, the last Bedford had long gone, was mostly B10Ms by then, I always double declutched up and down the box a much smoother change. Driving a Bedford Y series is something I hope to one day achieve.
I drove a few of these in my time, plus other Bedford Coaches such as PJK, YLQ, YRQ, YMPS, YRT, YMT, YNT, etc, at one time these were the workhorses of just about every small coach operator in the UK. Good to see them preserved in such good condition
We had a local operator called Smiths of Tring Hertfordshire. I remember going on these with the wood smell Polish diesel and seeing that plaxton clock above the windscreen ticking away
Lovely piece of kit - reminds me of when I was a school kid. Slightly surprised that it needed double de clutching, but nice to see that such an arcane art hasn't been lost! 🙂
Synchro on some gears aren't as good as they used to be! Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. For a reliable swift gearshift, double declutching works well.
@@brianmoran. Double de-clutching is where you depress the clutch, then take it out of gear, then lift the clutch in neutral before dipping it again and selecting the next gear. It's essential on crash gearboxes as the driver has to do the speed synchronisation of the gearbox input and output shafts for the gears to mesh. On synchro gearboxes it isn't necessary, but at more than 40 years old, some of the synchro capability has been lost and so double declutching allows a smoother and quicker change to the next gear.
Love the sound of those Bedford 500 Turbos. I remember Roberts of Wingate getting one back in 87 and being a coach company with a fleet of Bedfords on Plaxton Panorama Elites with naturally aspirated engines, the turbo version was a breath of fresh air, nit much changing down the box on the hills. Nice video and nice to see a good example of yhe Bedford
Thanks for your comments. It is lovely to listen to. I wish it was a turbo version but this one is the naturally aspirated version. It's all remarkably original though.
I went to school in a Bedford from 1994-99, the coach company now doesn't have any. For some reason I prefer the 'older' coaches. they had 4 of them at the time, always remember the loud floral red and black head rests from the late 70's. The older of the 4 was an S reg, the wood veneer was darker, same layout buttons etc, wipers used to be switched individually, one particular driver used to always use 1 on. I wondered if the older ones had overdrive attachment to the gear knob? I remember the gear shift stick is identical as in this video but below was an attached small 'box' with a cable going down the stick and a button at the top of this small box clipped on.
The earlier Supremes had "Figured Rosewood" panelling where as the later ones usually had the lighter "Rustic Bronze" panels. The additional switch on the gear lever would probably have been an optional two speed rear axle which acted as a splitter to offer gear ratios in between the standard gears in the gearbox. When you've got as little power available as you have in a Bedford, being able to optimise your engine speed is very useful! If you're interested in Plaxton Supreme coaches, there's a good Facebook group with all sorts of interesting photos and stories. facebook.com/groups/plaxtonsupreme
@@plaxtonsupreme Many thanks for your reply, all makes sense now. Don't see many about nowadays makes them more special. I'm on a Facebook group already, takes back to my past.
Throttle is Starting To Act Up On it , I’m a HGV Mechanic it’s A Lovely looking Coach , I worked on Them When They were Operating Plaxton Made Lovely Coaches ,
I'm interested in the driver 's gear changing. I can see him double declutching when he changes down, which I understand, but he also seems to do the same thing when changing up but without 'blipping' the throttle. Please can someone who understands these things explain why it is desirable or necessary to life the clutch when changing up when the gear lever is in the neutral position? Thanks.
Thanks for your question Andrew. When changing up, after you press the clutch down and move into neutral, the engine revs will drop (lots of pumping losses and friction to slow it down) but the gear box input shaft can still be rotating quite quickly (on roller bearings), meaning there is too big a speed difference between gearbox input shaft and output shaft for the synchroniser ring of the next gear to easily cope with. The result is either a longer wait for the synchroniser to work (slow gear shift) or it goes into the next gear with a graunch, as my third gear is prone to do. By lifting the clutch pedal in neutral just before selecting the next gear, it allows the slower engine to reduce the gearbox input shaft speed so there's less work for the synchroniser ring to do. The result is a quicker gear change without any graunching. It doesn't have to be as accurate as with a crash gearbox, but it does help. It isn't always required, for example, if the up-shift takes place whilst engine revs were quite low in the preceding gear then the synchroniser ring can cope with the speed difference anyway. The technique isn't necessary on newer gearboxes but on old, worn out gearboxes, it makes life easier. My gearbox is also prone to jumping out of 2nd gear, which is why you see me holding onto the gear lever more than would be normally required. The joys of old worn out machinery.... but I still love this coach to bits!! 🥰
@@plaxtonsupreme Thanks for explaining that. Very interesting and helpful. And you are right to love that coach to bits. Much enjoyed your video and I have learnt something new too. Best wishes, Andrew
School trip memories Not fast but very smooth As per the video the ones I remember were 4 speed….but I think there was a semi-automatic version as well…..little gear shifter next to the steering wheel and without a clutch pedal. Anyway the 4 speed manuals I remember had some kinda “J” brake….a lever control which when activated increased engine braking…they used it a lot down steep hills. I remember when the local bus company moved to DAFs to replace these….and these seem to feature some sort of Splitter gearbox, essentially doubling the number of gears thru using a switch on the gear shifter. Not sure on this…all seemed very complicated. Then again 4 speed did seem rather limited as well. I can vaguely remember an early version (older styling) which was removed from service a few years into my school years, several like in the video, and I seem to recall when the DAFs were brought in there was 1 new end of run Bedford bus which was clearly still the same platform but significantly upgraded….with a 5 speed transmission.
That Beddy 500 diesel hum brought back memories from Sydney. I used to catch mid engine Bedford buses both manual and Allison auto. That is the most modern looking driver's area I've seen in a Bedford. I remember a few had that thicker steering wheel but most had the skinny four stick affair. The newer one didn't come soon enough as it looks so much smarter. A shame Bedford fell behind and didn't have long to go by 1980. Here's a 1986 video showing various Bedford buses including a ride in an Allison automatic example. ruclips.net/video/Rd8jANTgfeo/видео.html
I always preferred the similar, but I think far more handsomely proportioned, Dominant 2. But as others have said, so evocative to see this Supreme: the school trips in a baking coach with skylights that did nothing, frustrated teachers shouting 'quiet the driver is trying to concentrate' and oh yes those smells. Can I ask - though out of view here, on coaches of that era there was a huge bank of switches to the driver's right. It may be a silly question, but what did so many switches control? I always imagined it to be the individual lights on the luggage racks, but that seems a bit daft.
The earlier Supremes (and Panorama Elites) had all the switches on the right hand side. The Supreme IV, like mine, has the switches on both sides of the dash. The switches on the left are all for heaters, the one under the dash for the windscreen demister and drivers vent, and then up to 4 heaters along the saloon. The switches on the right are mostly for lighting, but also has the rack blowers and drivers overhead fan. I have uploaded close up photos to Flickr for your perusal. flic.kr/p/2pS9UMY flic.kr/p/2pSb5ob flic.kr/p/2pS4acq
@@plaxtonsupreme Thank you. I really don't know why those banks of switches would fascinate me so much, but as a lad, it's the sort of things that do isn't it.
@@MisterHampshire I totally agree with you. It's one of the many aspects of a coach that had me fascinated as a youngster as part of my "how does it work?" curiosity that led me towards being an engineer!
@@plaxtonsupremeI'm rather guessing yours is not fitted with a Telma? That was something else that fascinated me at the time, how the driver was apparently able to slow down without apparently braking as such. It wasn't until many years later I understood what it was.
It is a 5 speed but first gear is very low. It was regular practice to set off in second gear. Changing up from 1st to 2nd can be a bit tricky, by which time, you've stopped again! I use 1st gear more frequently now that I've got used to it. As for engine power, it is rated at 157bhp but probably has less than that now.
It is a synchro gearbox, so double declutching shouldn't be necessary, but at more than 40 years old, some of the synchro capability has been lost and so double declutching allows a smoother and quicker change to the next gear.
Yep, very vague. Vehicles designed in the 70s didn't have as precise steering as modern vehicles do. Bedfords weren't great to start with and 400,000 miles use hasn't improved it!
@plaxtonsupreme well you cope very well ! The distance the gear lever has to travel is enormous, you practically have to push it out of the front window for first. After the best looking coaches (RELH with ECW body), the Plaxtons always looked better than any of their contemporaries no matter which chassis they were on .
Synchro on some gears aren't as good as they used to be! Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. For a reliable swift gearshift, double declutching works well.
@@plaxtonsupreme Big boxes will always give a better change double declutching if if synco is fitted. No employer will sanction a box overhaul just because the syncro is worn. Start off double declutching and see how it goes with single declutching or even zero declutching. Hot oil in the box makes a big difference. On vehicles with a aux box it was recommended to have the aux box in neutral and have the main box in gear with the engine running to get the oil circulating and warm.
A friend of mine had a few coaches (incl a Bedford a bit like this)... he always said, "Clutch for go and brakes for slow", easier to change brake pads than clutches so as long as you're in control, which you clearly are, it doesn't matter. Nice memories, thanks for the video.
I can understand that viewpoint but I'm preserving a Bedford as it was what I remember our local operators using. It was a very popular choice back then, mainly because they were more cost effective to own. One advantage of owning an old Bedford nowadays over an old Volvo or DAF is the spare parts are usually very easy to find and not too expensive to buy!
@@Ltee28 Bedford engines and gearboxes were good enough for the British and commonwealth armed forces for decades! One ex WW2 officer commented post-war that for the job they did. AEC, Bedford, Rover and Austin engines were just as good as the Rolls Royce they superceeded at a fraction of the cost, and no frills.
Plaxtons of that age bring back so many memories of school trips. The nylon moquette on the seats, the headrests with the leather inserts on the back, the very obviously imitation wood laminates, the big windows with the rubber grommets, the soft lino on the floor ...
Beautiful comment.
Just for info, the wood is real, but the "leather" isn't!
Also the smell of damp and diesel...
@@Ltee28 diesel, yes, but no damp on this one
I liked the Volvos the best, 80s school trips really were amazing
The Bedford. Such a lovely sound. Evokes memories.
Great upload takes me back.cant help think how beautiful the old coaches were.
This took me back to when I was at school. Shaws of Maxey had two Bedford Paramount 3200’s in their fleet of Paxton bodied Bedfords in the early 90’s. I can still hear the sound of the engine at motorway speeds along the A1 from Wittering through to the A47, then along the back roads through to my school. Thank you for sharing this video.
I used to go to AMVC, there where some cool buses & coaches lined-up on the playground daily
Lovely old coach. Could drive that all day. Nice relaxed pace with these older motors. Just loving all that wood effect Formica too.
Very pleasant, Bedfords and Fords were the mainstay of the independents, I grew up with those of Grayscroft and Applebys. Too many enthusiasts tend to disregard them in favour of heavyweight stuff so its good to see some saved.Sadly, by the time I started at the former after over a decade at RoadCar with Tigers ( a thoroughly enjoyable vehicle) etc, the last Bedford had long gone, was mostly B10Ms by then, I always double declutched up and down the box a much smoother change. Driving a Bedford Y series is something I hope to one day achieve.
Spent many hours driving Bedford coaches. Cracking video. Brought back many memories.
Thanks.... glad you enjoyed it.
The exterior mirrors are the same as i had on my J4 van in 1971.
I drove a few of these in my time, plus other Bedford Coaches such as PJK, YLQ, YRQ, YMPS, YRT, YMT, YNT, etc, at one time these were the workhorses of just about every small coach operator in the UK.
Good to see them preserved in such good condition
Thanks. HFL14W is having a day out at the South Yorkshire Transport Museum today.
@@plaxtonsupreme Our first 45 seater Bedford was MFE 391V, and came from Hornsby Travel in Scunthorpe
We had a local operator called Smiths of Tring Hertfordshire.
I remember going on these with the wood smell Polish diesel and seeing that plaxton clock above the windscreen ticking away
Lovely piece of kit - reminds me of when I was a school kid. Slightly surprised that it needed double de clutching, but nice to see that such an arcane art hasn't been lost! 🙂
Synchro on some gears aren't as good as they used to be! Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. For a reliable swift gearshift, double declutching works well.
@@plaxtonsupreme I even find it effective in modern cars with notchy gear shifts.
What is double clutching?
@@brianmoran. Double de-clutching is where you depress the clutch, then take it out of gear, then lift the clutch in neutral before dipping it again and selecting the next gear. It's essential on crash gearboxes as the driver has to do the speed synchronisation of the gearbox input and output shafts for the gears to mesh. On synchro gearboxes it isn't necessary, but at more than 40 years old, some of the synchro capability has been lost and so double declutching allows a smoother and quicker change to the next gear.
Love the sound of those Bedford 500 Turbos. I remember Roberts of Wingate getting one back in 87 and being a coach company with a fleet of Bedfords on Plaxton Panorama Elites with naturally aspirated engines, the turbo version was a breath of fresh air, nit much changing down the box on the hills.
Nice video and nice to see a good example of yhe Bedford
Thanks for your comments. It is lovely to listen to. I wish it was a turbo version but this one is the naturally aspirated version. It's all remarkably original though.
Oh sounds like a 500 turbo
Coming out of Blackpool at night the coach's would sing with the cold air.
I went to school in a Bedford from 1994-99, the coach company now doesn't have any. For some reason I prefer the 'older' coaches. they had 4 of them at the time, always remember the loud floral red and black head rests from the late 70's. The older of the 4 was an S reg, the wood veneer was darker, same layout buttons etc, wipers used to be switched individually, one particular driver used to always use 1 on. I wondered if the older ones had overdrive attachment to the gear knob? I remember the gear shift stick is identical as in this video but below was an attached small 'box' with a cable going down the stick and a button at the top of this small box clipped on.
The earlier Supremes had "Figured Rosewood" panelling where as the later ones usually had the lighter "Rustic Bronze" panels. The additional switch on the gear lever would probably have been an optional two speed rear axle which acted as a splitter to offer gear ratios in between the standard gears in the gearbox. When you've got as little power available as you have in a Bedford, being able to optimise your engine speed is very useful!
If you're interested in Plaxton Supreme coaches, there's a good Facebook group with all sorts of interesting photos and stories. facebook.com/groups/plaxtonsupreme
@@plaxtonsupreme Many thanks for your reply, all makes sense now. Don't see many about nowadays makes them more special. I'm on a Facebook group already, takes back to my past.
Throttle is Starting To Act Up On it , I’m a HGV Mechanic it’s A Lovely looking Coach , I worked on Them When They were Operating Plaxton Made Lovely Coaches ,
Some new bus / coach drivers would be scratching their head at the strange floor pole sticking up
Like getting dropped off at school. Great memories
I'm interested in the driver 's gear changing. I can see him double declutching when he changes down, which I understand, but he also seems to do the same thing when changing up but without 'blipping' the throttle. Please can someone who understands these things explain why it is desirable or necessary to life the clutch when changing up when the gear lever is in the neutral position? Thanks.
Thanks for your question Andrew. When changing up, after you press the clutch down and move into neutral, the engine revs will drop (lots of pumping losses and friction to slow it down) but the gear box input shaft can still be rotating quite quickly (on roller bearings), meaning there is too big a speed difference between gearbox input shaft and output shaft for the synchroniser ring of the next gear to easily cope with.
The result is either a longer wait for the synchroniser to work (slow gear shift) or it goes into the next gear with a graunch, as my third gear is prone to do. By lifting the clutch pedal in neutral just before selecting the next gear, it allows the slower engine to reduce the gearbox input shaft speed so there's less work for the synchroniser ring to do. The result is a quicker gear change without any graunching. It doesn't have to be as accurate as with a crash gearbox, but it does help.
It isn't always required, for example, if the up-shift takes place whilst engine revs were quite low in the preceding gear then the synchroniser ring can cope with the speed difference anyway.
The technique isn't necessary on newer gearboxes but on old, worn out gearboxes, it makes life easier. My gearbox is also prone to jumping out of 2nd gear, which is why you see me holding onto the gear lever more than would be normally required. The joys of old worn out machinery.... but I still love this coach to bits!! 🥰
@@plaxtonsupreme Thanks for explaining that. Very interesting and helpful. And you are right to love that coach to bits. Much enjoyed your video and I have learnt something new too. Best wishes, Andrew
School trip memories
Not fast but very smooth
As per the video the ones I remember were 4 speed….but I think there was a semi-automatic version as well…..little gear shifter next to the steering wheel and without a clutch pedal.
Anyway the 4 speed manuals I remember had some kinda “J” brake….a lever control which when activated increased engine braking…they used it a lot down steep hills.
I remember when the local bus company moved to DAFs to replace these….and these seem to feature some sort of Splitter gearbox, essentially doubling the number of gears thru using a switch on the gear shifter. Not sure on this…all seemed very complicated. Then again 4 speed did seem rather limited as well.
I can vaguely remember an early version (older styling) which was removed from service a few years into my school years, several like in the video, and I seem to recall when the DAFs were brought in there was 1 new end of run Bedford bus which was clearly still the same platform but significantly upgraded….with a 5 speed transmission.
That Beddy 500 diesel hum brought back memories from Sydney.
I used to catch mid engine Bedford buses both manual and Allison auto.
That is the most modern looking driver's area I've seen in a Bedford.
I remember a few had that thicker steering wheel but most had the skinny four stick affair. The newer one didn't come soon enough as it looks so much smarter.
A shame Bedford fell behind and didn't have long to go by 1980.
Here's a 1986 video showing various Bedford buses including a ride in an Allison automatic example.
ruclips.net/video/Rd8jANTgfeo/видео.html
Bedford YMT are YRQ's were my memorable plaxton supreme coaches I went to school or to the seaside
I remember we had a Plaxton bus with Ford engine and 8 speed range box, I guess it was som Ford Cargo engine ?
Proper good bus driver that!
Beautifully driven
A rare sight indeed a bus that reverses .
Was that a 5 speed gearbox
Yes, Turner 5 speed. Somewhat agricultural in its operation!
I always preferred the similar, but I think far more handsomely proportioned, Dominant 2. But as others have said, so evocative to see this Supreme: the school trips in a baking coach with skylights that did nothing, frustrated teachers shouting 'quiet the driver is trying to concentrate' and oh yes those smells. Can I ask - though out of view here, on coaches of that era there was a huge bank of switches to the driver's right. It may be a silly question, but what did so many switches control? I always imagined it to be the individual lights on the luggage racks, but that seems a bit daft.
The earlier Supremes (and Panorama Elites) had all the switches on the right hand side. The Supreme IV, like mine, has the switches on both sides of the dash. The switches on the left are all for heaters, the one under the dash for the windscreen demister and drivers vent, and then up to 4 heaters along the saloon. The switches on the right are mostly for lighting, but also has the rack blowers and drivers overhead fan. I have uploaded close up photos to Flickr for your perusal.
flic.kr/p/2pS9UMY
flic.kr/p/2pSb5ob
flic.kr/p/2pS4acq
@@plaxtonsupreme Thank you. I really don't know why those banks of switches would fascinate me so much, but as a lad, it's the sort of things that do isn't it.
@@MisterHampshire I totally agree with you. It's one of the many aspects of a coach that had me fascinated as a youngster as part of my "how does it work?" curiosity that led me towards being an engineer!
@@plaxtonsupremeI'm rather guessing yours is not fitted with a Telma? That was something else that fascinated me at the time, how the driver was apparently able to slow down without apparently braking as such. It wasn't until many years later I understood what it was.
@@MisterHampshire Absolutely correct.... no retarder on my coach.
Is it only a 4 speed box? Or does he always drive off in 2nd? How much power does the engine have?
It is a 5 speed but first gear is very low. It was regular practice to set off in second gear. Changing up from 1st to 2nd can be a bit tricky, by which time, you've stopped again! I use 1st gear more frequently now that I've got used to it. As for engine power, it is rated at 157bhp but probably has less than that now.
not many coaches have a manual gearbox, most have zf boxes
When this coach was built, nearly all had manual gearboxes. Automatics were quite rare back then.
ZF made stick boxes too! Our YNT has a 6-speed manual box.
do you have too double de-clutch with this gearbox ?
It is a synchro gearbox, so double declutching shouldn't be necessary, but at more than 40 years old, some of the synchro capability has been lost and so double declutching allows a smoother and quicker change to the next gear.
Steering on straight roads looks a bit vague, is that a symptom of age and wear or of the type of steering common to buses ?
Yep, very vague. Vehicles designed in the 70s didn't have as precise steering as modern vehicles do. Bedfords weren't great to start with and 400,000 miles use hasn't improved it!
@plaxtonsupreme well you cope very well ! The distance the gear lever has to travel is enormous, you practically have to push it out of the front window for first. After the best looking coaches (RELH with ECW body), the Plaxtons always looked better than any of their contemporaries no matter which chassis they were on .
Which bus rallys do you get too
Llandudno Transport Festival and the AEC Gathering in Newark are my next bookings for 2024.
How many gears?
It's a Turner 5 speed gearbox, but first is so low it's practically a crawler gear.
@plaxtonsupreme would have been better off being an 8-speed gearbox
And a more powerful engine, and better steering, and air suspension, but this coach is completely original and that's how they built them back then!
@plaxtonsupreme how much horsepower would it have?
@@trainsme7919 Was supposed to have 159hp when new but I don't think it has that much now!
No synchromesh?
Synchro on some gears aren't as good as they used to be! Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. For a reliable swift gearshift, double declutching works well.
@@plaxtonsupreme Big boxes will always give a better change double declutching if if synco is fitted. No employer will sanction a box overhaul just because the syncro is worn. Start off double declutching and see how it goes with single declutching or even zero declutching. Hot oil in the box makes a big difference. On vehicles with a aux box it was recommended to have the aux box in neutral and have the main box in gear with the engine running to get the oil circulating and warm.
Can we see some AEC coaches …..
At 7 mins 55 seconds, the red Harrington coach is an AEC.
Was this during a pcv test?
The description in the title of the video states it was the AEC Gathering road run.
Are these front engine or mid engines?
Bedford Y series coaches are mid engined.
I was taught to drive in a Bedford YMQ but that one had a unicar body.
These where the days when you really had to start driving
Driver likes going into neutral be4 he has stopped?
Yes, I guess I do, a bad habit I guess. I'm sorry my driving doesn't meet with your approval. That wasn't why I posted the video though.
A friend of mine had a few coaches (incl a Bedford a bit like this)... he always said, "Clutch for go and brakes for slow", easier to change brake pads than clutches so as long as you're in control, which you clearly are, it doesn't matter. Nice memories, thanks for the video.
Why all the freewheeling? Use the gears.
Never really keen on driving Bedford's, much preferred the Volvo B10M & Daf sb.
I can understand that viewpoint but I'm preserving a Bedford as it was what I remember our local operators using. It was a very popular choice back then, mainly because they were more cost effective to own. One advantage of owning an old Bedford nowadays over an old Volvo or DAF is the spare parts are usually very easy to find and not too expensive to buy!
Bedfords and Fords are good, honest classic coaches from that era. Brings back lots of memories!
@@Ltee28 Bedford engines and gearboxes were good enough for the British and commonwealth armed forces for decades! One ex WW2 officer commented post-war that for the job they did. AEC, Bedford, Rover and Austin engines were just as good as the Rolls Royce they superceeded at a fraction of the cost, and no frills.