The jumbo and tiger are comparable in close quarters situations I guess, but on the big open field maps (which get more common in higher brs) the tiger 2 has a significant advantage. The jumbo has to hit a small weak spot on the turret face from 1000 meters, but the tiger just has to hit some part of the jumbo. Kursk becomes unplayable.
I just don't see the point of the jumbo at that br. The armor is too unreliable. You might as well just grab the e8, which is faster and also gets penned easily by everything it sees.
@@thetankhunter100 dont event have to aim - if you quick brake and blindshot a jumbo around a corner and manage to hit him anywhere, you will one shot. The jumbo *must* hit the center of your mantlet (even hitting the turret face a little too high or low can force a ricochet). Even then he may only disable you and then die while chasing down your retreat. Stabilizers are helpful but cant quite tip the scale in this case imo.
How is the jumbo comparable if the any chance of doing anything to a Tiger 2 is either gun or a very small target at the turret front made stronger by volumetrics ? And no the stab doesnt matter when your entire tanks is a weak spot.
I play primarily Germany and there is not one situation I would take a Jumbo. With the long 88 it’s just another one shot Sherman and only the 76 gives me pause if he can land a shot on my turret cheek. But the workload of Jumbo vs KT isn’t even close, KT is flat out better in all scenarios.
Pretty interesting results. Now I'm more convinced that 6.3 gets more downtiers than 6.7 or 5.3-5.7. And I totally agree with you about the reliability of German teammates as they often can't assert proper map control and let the enemy push through when they normally shouldn't be able to. I often end up outnumbered 3 to 1 when playing the 6.7 king Tiger.
It probably comes down to how 7.7 is a really popular BR meaning if you play 6.7/7.3 you are way more likely to get into 7.7 games making 6.3 just be left behind without as many uptiers
I recently grinded my russian tech tree by playing 5.3 and 8/10 matches where a full point uprank. I think this might have something to do with not a lot of countries having a solid 5.3 line up but I'm really not sure.
@@chicuongvu1806 You should memorize ammo storage locations for the more common tanks you fight. Hitting those with heat shells makes it easier. Also, seal clubbing be like that.
Honestly the teammate thing I feel is true, but at the same time it always seems like teammates are just not all there. You've got the guys who only spawn in 1 vehicle, or your team wins the initial engagement, gets all the zones and then walks into the enemy spawns and gets killed there because of spawn protection.
I can certainly agree, and it isn't just Germany, at least at the ranges around 4.7 br; through the past few days I played grinding the Soviet tree I have seen an increase in neglect from teammates to even watch their flanks. Russian players in KVs act like new Tiger players; and in the matches I have fighting against Germans there is an increase of German players watching their flanks and supporting teammates at this br. Which furthers my view you can have a team of donkeys, regardless the nation.
@@press_here__8697 Not if you use one of the hundreds of aircraft in game and intercept them.... Then any unchallenged CAS becomes just like any other vehicle in game.
Back when I used to play this game I also only ever took 1 vehicle (sometimes added a fighter). There's just no point. If I get taken down then the match is lost and there's no point wasting money bringing a second one into a doomed fight. The exception would be low BR matches where repair costs aren't a concern and you're just playing a game rather than having a job.
I haven’t touched the P for a while since I just entered tier 5, and many ppl don’t know how to play German. 1 game I told someone to not push a spot where there was 2 light tanks on the cliff since my barrel got hit. He pushed anyways and the guy who got my barrel was smart enough to fall off the cliff and get me and my idiot teammate. Safe to say these ppl are usually don’t know there’s a map+chat function. Then there was 1 game where I got 9 kills on a close range map on the H variant.
can you made a video on "how bad was the M1128 Stryker MGS"? I've heard it's pretty horrible in real life. I would love to see that video! Thank you for the amazing content Spookston! Always appreciated!
@@FirstDagger It's just so much more expansive to a m113 for not much of a benefit, also my god fuck the maintenance on the m1128 thing was designed by a damn masochist.
my favorite bit is whenever someone brings up the stryker platform there is always a former or current crewman of one right under confirming that its a shitbox
@@pancytryna9378 Your stuck in the Tiger E grinding to the Tiger IIs I assume? Remember to angle, but beware, smart players will aim near your tracks as the lower sides are only 60mm thick, easily penned by most guns. Your best off trying to stay at medium ranges, and only pushing when you got support.
Considering the Tiger and Tiger 2 historically operated on large flat open plains, German players have a point. What's with the ridiculous amount of city maps, and maps will lots of hills? Is this Gaijin way of balancing the game? This never happened in real life.
I think the reason why the Tiger 2 is rated to be so bad, and yes, I have played it, its that uptiers which happened quite frequently for me and my friends was absolute hell. On more then 10 cases, we attempted to fight M60s with no effect, however, the M60s chemical rounds would go straight through any surface of the tank. This goes for most MBTs and even the T44.
Facts. I always get up tiered at 6.7/7.0. Same thing with 8.7. I just think that 7.7 and 9.7 are just extremely popular BRs compared to the ones directly below. 7.7 has a lot of lineups compared to the many weak lineups for the smaller nations at 6.7/7.0
@@CyberneticArgumentCreator I've never head someone say what I just said. It's a fact that anyone who isn't a German player uses "muh germany suffers" as a coping technique.
@@CyberneticArgumentCreator and proof of this is literally any decent warthunder player. There's plenty of videos of people doing just as good in non german vehicles and its retarded when people trash people who wanna play the german technology tree all because their too garbage to learn how to very easily counter german vehicles. I'm saying this as someone who hasn't even played germany is ages after grinding the leopard 1
@@kajetus0688 I don't even play the game anymore it's so cancer and I always get the most retarded, braindead, waste of space "teammates" to exist. More often then not I die cause of my teammates not even the enemy😭😭
Huh. I never saw anyone say that the tiger 2p was bad. I personally don't have fun its it (I like the h) but it's a good tank. What I saw on the forums was a universal condemnation of Gaijin and German mains.
Imo Tiger II P's aren't bad at all, they're still a pretty big fucking threat but they're just somewhat easier to take down than the 2H because of that turret armour. It's just that most tiger II players I've run into don't really get how to heavy tank and instead get themselves isolated. Tho there's also the occasional tiger/panther packs that fucking steamroll allied teams
That’s the main skill issue with Tiger 2s - no one on the team knows how to cover for you. Ferdinand players hide to not get screwed by the repair cost, T2s charge straight into kill zones, and there are no mediums that can provide adequate support.
I remember when I first unlocked the Tiger II p, and the absolute amazement I felt when I reversed in it. The speed was amazing, allowing me to retreat if I needed too, unlike the earlier slower Tigers/Panthers. War Thunder truly became a point and click adventure in that thing. Fast forward to today and the most I can do in it is hide somewhere because my team got wiped within 4 minutes of the match starting. And the leopard one having been moved down to 7.3 didn't help with getting good match making.
As a french main, except when playing the b1s or the arl 44, i'm surprised when my armor is working so i don't understand how a tank that is very hard to pen from the front and still has one the best perfoming cannon at its BR can be bad. You can't expect to bounce evrything at less than a 100 meters where shells have all their kinetic energy and you can easily aim for weak spots and still be accurate.
all these other nations dont know how good they have it lol, we may have good pen and mobility but heavy tanks that can be killed by reserve vehicles and no filler or stab is quite hard to brawl with
Its the german playervase sadly, most of them either are new players, casual players or have missing brain cells or severe brain damage. Its sad because as an USA main, whenever i play germany im like: 1. I miss my stabilizer 2. OH WOW! Wtf ? this thing it's OP. Did i just bounce 27 shots and pen 7 heavies without aiming in my Panther mediun tank ?
Turret traverse, hull traverse, ammo rack in turret, unrealiable teammates. Its a good sniper but is easily flanked and ammo racked and suffers in cqc because of low responsiveness, also barrel sniping meta from stabilised shermans.
@@cerdic6867 Here's my favourite thing that I have done to Tigers at 7.3. *Big 'ol BOOMSTICK hitting the front wheel of the driver side track and killing the whole Tiger? and also bullying a Tiger 2H? FV4005 says "BESH"*
The issue with the 2H is that once you hit 6.7, full up tiers get you to 7.7 where HEAT is common. At 6.3 going to 7.3 you don't have as good HEAT shells against you, and you also face more AP shells. The 2P also has better turret sides at a shallower angle than the 2H meaning you get a rare bounce off them where it would pen a 2H.
The Tiger II was a waste of steel in real life. In War Thunder it's got a lot of potential, people just don't know how to play it cause they jizzed at a WWII documentary that called all German tanks "Unstoppable killing machines" and don't get me started on the teams you get paired up with
@@wesleysnipes5638 the things irl got out produced by shermans and t-34s while also having quite a few manufacturing problems and general reliability problems jsut to add on top of not having the fuel and oil need to run the things with a lack of parts and the such to repair the tanks
@@AlbertWillHelmWestings2618 Exactly. It also didn't have that much more benefits over the Tiger 1. Not to mention the Tiger II was VERY fuel hungry on top of the frequent engine fires and breakdowns.
honestly I can never rely on German teammates mainly bc they are clueless or do not look at the map though at the same time I usually aggressively push the enemy team which allows me to get kills, but as a result I will occasionally get caught out
come on don't pick on germen i play germen,russia,usa tanks and i been playing germeny and i found great teams you just got to tell they are cowards and most of the time they will push because you called them cowardy or say come on idlots my grandma could do better also works, it makes either pay more attection and do better or just makes them pissed off, most of the time it works
Hi. I agree...I've been german main for almost 3 years. Teams are usually pretty bad. I found this to be the case in most BR's. I mean...I outplay my team most of the time and I'm on a ps4 🤣🤣
@@blueduck8431 I have played Germany for over 6 years and now I branch off to other countries, but from my experience German players believe they are impervious to all damage due to the documentaries about German aces. Then they download War Thunder expecting the tiger 1 and 2 to be fighting shermans. Then they go complain on the forums about Germany suffers. Then they go back and play Germany and act like an idiot once again and the cycle repeats itself until they finally figure out how to play it.
That's the reason the Jumbo is better. If you get uptiered in a tiger, your armor is worthless and you are just slow and huge. If you get uptiered in a jumbo, you're still pretty much a sherman.
@@InternetStudiesGuy Lol what?Tell me anything that a Jumbo does better than Tiger II besides mobility.Tiger II doesn’t need a stabilizer as it’s suspension does the job.It’s cannon pens 90mm more with more explosive filter.
@@AFT_05G he’s talking when up-tiered (7.3-7.7) where armour starts to reduce so penn matters less or the shells have such high pen it makes armour meaningless and speed matters more an not just of tank but entire weapon system including traverse and load round kill time. The US APHE seems to have better after effect. But that could also be crew arrangements and Ammo arrangements. HEAT FS makes the Tiger armour meaningless so treating a Jumbo like a normal sherman isn’t to hard unlike a Tigers and Panthers they don’t feel like Pz IVs for mobility.
I always say this to my friends when we play wt : "u cant spell kampfwagen without kamp" because the best way to play Germany at that BR is to play passively or camp, no matter what historians tell u about the tiger. Let the russians or americans push then counter attack
As a Russian main I never have problems when facing up agains the 2P and really only die to one if its an ambush or they shot first. The 2H on the other hand is a bit of a challenge when facing it frontally. However the jumbo is extremely annoying imo due to the weak spot being so much smaller compared to the Tiger 2. Getting up tiered as often as I do just makes it more common for me to face the Tigers than a Jumbo lol
Yeah, as someone who plays both countries, fighting American tanks is almost always a bigger annoyance than fighting German tanks because you can easily find the weak spot of any Panzer, it’s the side and barrel. With American tanks shooting the barrel and flanking the sides isn’t as easy though…
i think one of the tigers weaknesses is that its so popular that everyone has every pixel sized weak spot in muscle memory to act in 0.0023ms when they see anything tiger related on enemy team
my experience with both tiger II, it's actually a good heavy, but the "most feared tank in ww2" title make me overconfident and rush recklessly and died as the result, but when i use it with "slow and careful" approach, i got better results, even nobody ever shot me
The 76 Jumbo is easily my favorite tank and it angered me when they moved it, it wasn't a big move, but I'm tired of Gaijin making such stupid changes and it got me to stop playing War Thunder. I agree the Tiger II P isn't a bad tank, it's the weaker of the two but isn't bad. 12 full down tiers is amazing, but that's because 5.3 is an extremely popular BR. I do find your experiences hard to compare to most though as I've seen your stat card, you're far better then the average player. But most of my experience fighting the Tiger II P is people act as though they are invincible and get flanked or hit in the weak turret front when they should be in cover or angling their turret.
This is a very good example of why basing vehicle BR’s on player stats is unreliable. Everyone’s experience with a vehicle differs. Your experience is different from Spookston’s, and mine is different from yours. For me, the Tiger II P is far better than the Jumbo. Also, jumbos seem to think they’re invincible too. With the amount of Tigers and Panthers bouncing shells off of them, they assume the Tiger II will do the same. They often shoot at me, bounce, and sit outside of nearby cover, waiting to reload as I turn my turret towards them. They make no effort to reverse into nearby cover, and just sit there letting me front pen them, killing them. This scenario happens almost every game I play in the Tiger II, sometimes more than once. They seem to get “Tiger syndrome” from playing the jumbo.
I quit War Thunder in probably 2015 or so (my memory is fuzzy) And at that point the Tiger II P grind is what made me quit the game; getting routinely obliterated by cold war tanks that you simply couldn't penetrate, which could penetrate you through every angle.
I can feel the frustration. Things have changed a lot since then. Now, when I'm in my t28, the main nation I fight against is germany, and they have a plethora of gimmick vehicles that can pen me. The Jp 4-5 with 400mm heat, and the german M41A1 that has heat too, which the american version doesn't. There's the Leopard 1 as well, but that's a full uptier. Wish I could say I don't run into them often, but that tank is so popular, it bleeds into half of the games I queue for. There's also the Marder which is a german SPAA that's disguised as a TD, with instakill missiles. Now they also have the ATGM Wiesel too. Germany is actual cancer to fight at 6.3, and by far, the worst tier for someone with the US lineup, it's just not fair or fun whatsoever. I swapped nations to Japan and have been having much more fun at that tier, though that nation has an awful lineup with hardly any vehicles, let alone viable ones. Germany and Russia tech trees get all the attention and it really shows.
I recently spaded my tiger 2H, and found some similar results. Rarely there are people pushing and defending the caps, and covering flanks; a lot of them just stayed back and did nothing. I remember few matches where four or five tanks would just sit together far away from actions, watching a corner that no one ever visits. But I don't think that's all to it. About 60% of my matches were full up-tiered to 7.7, and 30% to 7.3, where fighting Russian IS tanks became a severe problem. Especially in the map Breslaw, scenes like 2 is-3s and 1 is-6 fully control the urban area were commonplace. This is made more true when in a 7.7 game, about 30% of my team were always tiger 2s. Tiger 2H is a really good heavy tank when used against most other lights and mediums around its BR, but fighting things that it can never pen from the front, although logical (a 7.7 heavy should be able to kill a 6.7 heavy easily), still really kills its potential. I would agree that the tiger 2P is a much more effective vehicle in the current situation though. Not because it is a better tank on paper than the H variant, it simply seems full and partial down-tiers way more often. The P is my first ground aced crew vehicle, and my K/D for it is around 3. Surely everything can pen its mantlet, wiggling it can negate a lot of those shots; whereas the H variant's 185mm mantlet and its *hull* both mean nothing against all the cold-war tanks. Overall, I had a way better experience with the P, but it is still worth it to play the H. If you stick close to a cap point and try to defend it throughout the whole game, no matter which variant, you are promised to get at least 2 or 3 kills each game and likely survive longer.
me in my panther A having 11 kills uptiered to 6.7, and got holding down a point bymyself, my team half way across the map sniping, sadly we lost that game, but the other team instead of fighting me just didn't go over to the A point anymore, they just stoped caring with very much hurt me because i wanted more kills, and i almost got bombed twice, and i killed 2 poory placed T34, and 1 tiger (P), so panthers A,D can do work as long as you got a two lazy teams
I spaded both tiger 2s this week and from my experiance it's an alright tank the problem as a whole is just being uptiered against america or france which are countries with heat and fast tanks where regardless of your skill you'll still lose even though you get 5 kills most of your team will just leave with 0/2kills
@@giovanniscarano2027 if you wanna grind to 7.0 or beyond to finally get a acceptable tank be my guest 7.0-1.0 British tanks suck. I only like WW2 tanks I don't play that cold war everything pens everything garbage. I like 5.7 and 5.3
The 6.3 Tiger is an amazing tank. It's a really secure feeling, to know that virtually whatever I look at will die. Yeah, the turret is rough, but every tank has a weak point.
Ironically I'd say those frontal turret weak spots are no longer penetrable by T-35-85 (5.7), I tried countless of time & at time from point blank & all of it was non-pen. But to relate to the video, when they are making everything in it's mother to destroy tanks & specially AA equipment, you know the game isn't on the right track & with such logic ZSU-57 is more deservedly a 6.3 but I'm not saying that it cannot work at it's BR as that.
@@blorb2120 yeah I know but that is the issue, you could always remove those over performing shells & make them more viable & usable at their ranges, I think when it comes to AA exclusively they should havr thier BR tied to era or year.
@@blorb2120 considering the BR it would be at it (in sensible & logic universe) would do its AA job. Yeah you'd lose those fun shot at people showing sides but its an AA after all.
I'm pretty much a German main and I never thought to myself that the tiger 2 was bad in anyway I believe most German Heavy tanks could be moved up perform just fine
In my opinion it is 90% lineup, and that is good. If you get downtiered you can use the big cats and have a good time and if you are uptiered you can use fast, highpen light vihicles like LeKpz41 or Jagdpanzer 4-5. If you research evenly from BR to BR you will always have a good tank for every solution
totally agree with the teammate argument, had a jagdpanther once pinning down enemies on a hill, or so i thought before seeing him rush up to join me which just resulted on the enemies on the hill to flank us and kill us both. Never did I think that someone was dumb enough to go do some cqc in a jagdpanther like that.
i wonder what your opinion of the T34-57 is, in my personal experience its the best tech tree T34 in the game, as the D5T and the 85 both have similar penetration but with far slower reloads and less survivable turrets.
For me it’s the T-34 1942. The armor is ridiculous effective while it also has the best mobility of low tier medium tanks. Only the German T-34 can top that by having even more armor. The 57 is alright but faces a lot vehicles with high penetration, making it more likely to get penetrated through the sides.
Main issue with the 57 is that its far less viable at sniping due to the light weight of the gun, and if I remember correctly it has to face things that can more easily penetrate the T-34, though I haven't played the 57 in a long time.
same pen, but the 57 sometimes need 2 shots to destroy some tanks because of less explosive filler than 85 edit: dont forget to use apcbc, your shell won't gaijined very often
Eh pros and cons. 57 strength is it's general flat trajectory and reload. Also since the 57 is a much smaller shell volumetric doesn't effect it as much on flat armor but it really acts little better than apcr. 85 D5t has better post pen and better pen on angled armor. It's also has a slight speed advantage over the 57 and I've found it to out perform the 57 on rougher terrain and hills. The better armored turret is a moot point as everything can punch through both. Still can thread the needle with the 85 but it is alot harder when running up against tiger e or tiger 2. Personally I prefer the 57 over the 85 D5T but not over the 85 S53 and I have spent much time on all 4 of them. Then again you are fighting generally different things at 4.7 vs 5.3-5.7. I find panthers more annoying than the tiger 2 but I figured it's because I run into more panthers than tigers in general
As someone who got Ace crew in T 34-57 by playing it, it is the most undertiered vehicle in the game, playing it feels like playing an MBT against a sherman because it has all three of what makes a tank good : Mobility second only to M18, Armor that can bounce USA 76 and short 88 when angled and moving while also having a low profile, and a gun that penetrates as much as USA 76 with 5s reload and very flat trajectory due to its velocity combined with SPAA turret turn, it could be 6.0 and it'll still perform well like the T20
Spookston if you only use yourself as a example the stats are only gonna be positive considering your a veteran player and not considering anyone else like other regular players or enemy players making it pointless to even make this without taking stats of other players of course I may be stupid but this is how I feel
Precisely, it's anecdotal. His experiences starting out can be explained with a lot fewer high-penetration vehicles existing at that BR, his experiences now are explained with his skill. He's not at all representative of the average.
@@tornadok1078 He can say that, and he can even believe that being a humble man, but he most certainly is not average regardless. He has played the game for thousands, if not tens of thousands, of hours. He makes content about it in a professional capacity. Hell, we just saw him go 5.0 kd, and get a 20+ kill match. An average player does not get a 20+ kill match more often than once in a blue moon even with the most broken vehicles out there. An average player does not manage to get a nuke in, what, a week since that feature was released? An average played by definition does not have a k/d of 5.
This doesn't change the facts at all. Skill does not determine your armor or gun caliber. The tiger 2 is objectively not a bad tank, there is no subjective.
Also consider the forced 1st stage ammo rack that got added a few years back. That was a big nerf for the Tiger-2 tanks. Since it allmost insurers it will get 1 shotted if penned through the turret.
Could you make one of these about the Churchill VII sometime? I feel like that tank gets uptiered way too much to be playable because of the amount of people playing 5.3 Germany
Yeah, it's funny watching peaple pankic when there multiple Churchills, their ability to ain goes out the window. Doesn't beet watching a tiger bounce 20+ rounds because the brain dead fucker keeps firing center of mass. On a Churchill.
perfect proof of why balancing vehicles based off of stats is a bad idea. only reason why the tiger is the same br as the jumbo is because of idiot wehraboos holding down W and blasting Erika, not to say that there arent idiot freeaboos as well, there are just more wehraboos than freeaboos
Yeah, I'd say Tiger 2 belongs in 8.7 and Maus is hillariously undertiered and actually should be 9.3. The armor is just way too good, especially against HeatFS and APFSDS and Sabot it just bounces all of it effortlessly. Also we should at least triple the repair cost and add another 27 EBRs starting at 2.3 with stabilizer.
The most interesting part of this for me is that you were downtiered more than uptiered whenever I play 6.7 I get uptiered almost every game and assumed 6.3 was similar
The reason why these BRs are different is because 7.3 is not populate as much as 7.7. You more more likely to get a 7.7 game because there are more of them, whereas at 6.3 you are much less likely to get fully uptiered to 7.3.
You just brought up the "Germany is bad" argument to explain away this tiger and not only that but you never bothered playing the H variant which can get annihilated on a regular basis if your not careful or get Uptiered. The map control issue is concerning but I think this is more own to the mobility issues and although it may not seem like the jumbo's stabiliser is worth much in 6.3 it can destroy the tigers P and H's barrel and shoot the tracks off before the tiger has time to properly respond and aim for weak spots though i have witnessed very few jumbo players do this. The Tiger two H suffers a lot more than the P and if you boil it down it is in the same situation as the jumbo with it facing tanks superior to it an a lot of fashions. The amount of knit picking in this video is unbelievable
The montage that showed how "good" the Tiger 2p is supposed to be really only showcased the long 88 shooting soft targets and side shots(which is also an average gun at an uptier, but that's another story). It really didn't show the Tiger doing anything that heavies are supposed to do, eg take hits and brawl. In that role the Tiger p performs as an obese , slow medium tank at best. Honestly didn't show anything a Panzer 4 or panther couldn't do.
After having cyber bullied so many tiger 2P’s in Cold War tanks, I straight up never crewed the 2P I don’t believe. I think most of the issues people have, are them being out of place in the tank, and being uptiered. Good video as always
Lmao tiger 2s are strong it's the players that are bad, all they know how to do is rush in a tank they think has heavy armor then getting shot from the side or from a weak point, yeah no shit other players can aim it's part of the game, next thing you know they want the Tiger 2 to fight short 75mm guns
I think you mean BRs are an issue. Whenever I fight any tank in 7.0 or above range just about everything the tiger relies on becomes obsolete. Gaijoobles did this to themselves and now the playerbase is paying the price
next time when testing vehicles, dont use a content creator account. Those accounts get downtiered more often, and you will meet lower levels. Accounts without the content creator buffs suffer much more from uptiers
@@jackvernian7779 since content creators don’t tell you the amount of matches they played in a normal gameplay video, it’s hard to know. However during livestreams it gets surprisingly obvious. Of course it also depends on the BR, but the chances of getting uptiered are already likely above 70% on non content creator accounts. It might take a while to realize but you can do minor tests like count how many games the content creator has played also keep track how many were uptiers, downtiers, or same tier, then compare them with your results. Don’t forget to play on the same region though
I honestly don’t understand why some people don’t like the tigers. I absolutely love the tiger series in general and feel it’s really fun to play, at least for my semi aggressive play style. The 2P is currently my highest performing tank but the 2H is creeping up there. I love when it’s CQC, someone comes up close, tries to pierce my angled armor, and I just respond with a laugh and another kill. Only thing I’ll never like about using tiger 2s are the massive uptiers I get.
Huh, so it's true that the reason of "Germany suffering" is in fact the cumulative lack of skill and, especially, teamplay of Germany mains. At this point the Tiger 2 can go to 2.3, get killed by an M10 in a full uptier or a ZiS-30 and they still would complain.
Very nice video, Tiger 10.5 is the one i like the most, it is faster and also it has 350g HE filler so it overpressures a lot (+ rangefinder), it even might be a bit OP. The teams are quite bad, they usually give up after one or two deaths, luckily German CAS is OP and mitigates this.
I wouldn't even say you need to play passively in a Tiger, you just need to be more calculated in your aggression. Also, I definitely agree with your point about stabilizers. If you need a stabilizer to perform well in cqc, you have a skill issue.
The tiger 2p is imo an amazing tank. I like to start matches slow and snipe at the start in downtiers and uptiers. In a downtier match I recommend to brawl with it but you want to brawl with friends. Turning away the turret slightly helps to bounce some 76mm shots and then your teammates can shoot at the enemy and distract them. In a full downtier match the tiger 2p has to enable the tiger h1 and e to play their role and it can do so. The gun and velocity of the shell is so good for this BR that you can maximize the potential of this tank by aiming with binoculars, shooting on the move or shooting through houses like you did in the video.
I never really see this mentioned but i think its also worth considering. When playing Germany especially at 5.0-7.0 you end up with teams that are just Germany so your team ends up largely being composed of tiger 2s, tigers, and panthers which are all pretty great tanks but the team suffers from pretty much only having heavy tanks. So the tends to be troubles punching through American t34s and pershings/super pershings (although knowledge of their weak spots greatly reduces this they can still be very troublesome on very long range maps like Aral Sea) , plus uk and french tanks can punch through your armor like butter
In the rare occasions i play WT i enjoy going back to low/mid tiers and play the tiger 10cm, even if its annoying to constantly face is3 is4s and so on, it does pretty good and is very fun to play
Thank god. I play a lot of Germany because i like their vehicle aesthetics and their playstyle but even then i thought it was unfair for the jumbo to be uptiered. I'm so glad you did a video like this which highlights that the opponents it goes up against are not favorable for an uptier. Love your work and this video, keep it up!
the recurring theme: German tanks are quite good and even op its just that the people that use them are brain ded and dont know either what awareness is or dont know how to use the tank properly case and point: Tiger 1
I have an idea if that's a thing on this channel: Maybe continue this series but with popular aircraft in Warthunder? A couple good ideas to start (in my opinion) could be the CW - 21, and the IL - 2.
I will admit absolutely, as a German main, 6.3 BR is literally golden. It has bad time at uptiers but at a 6.3/6.7 match or downtier match, the lineup is fucking invincible. I almost always will get 5-8 kills in the Ferdinand, a good few in the King Tiger IF i die in the Ferdinand, then just the Arado is a good aerial support.
I think the tiger 2 P is really similar to the Tiger 1 at its own BR, when facing idiots it can be extremely effective. When facing a skilled player, its not particularly great because its easy to exploit. Admittedly the 2 P has less weak spots than the Tiger 1, but thats sorta compensated by getting HEAT and APDS spammed by higher tier vehicles
I have an interesting suggestion to make, just to shake things up a bit: how about looking at some of the low tier SPAA to see how bad they are, especially compared to the Wirbelwind and R3 and why some nations would rather use lower br SPAA in high br lineups over the others: UK Crusader Mk. 1, USSR 37mm SPAA, both USA 40mm Bofors.
I guess it just comes down to what you said, the Jumbo is just more suited for this kind of aggressive play. This fits warthunder battles more, seeing how pushing objectives is the main way to win. Now if there where gamemodes that allowed 1 side to attack, and 1 to defend, then a defending tiger would probably be a lot scarier than a defending jumbo But in our current gamemodes, A tiger 2 on the defence means that more mobile tanks already won the attack to get to that point.
The whole thing about team being unreliable is extremely accurate, Ive only had like 2 teams that were competent out of at least 23 matches, and even then I also get uptiered 96% of the time, with 3% being equal br and 1 being downtiers.
the tiger 2 p is better than the h. the h has a thicker turret front but its flat so it is the same thickness everywhere, and at 6.7 it will face more opponents with enough pen to go through the turret. the p even though its turret is thinner the way its rounding is steeper than many other tanks with rounded turret fronts makes it much more difficult to penetrate at a distance because if you hit too high or too low the effective thickness is pretty high
The jumbo and tiger are comparable in close quarters situations I guess, but on the big open field maps (which get more common in higher brs) the tiger 2 has a significant advantage. The jumbo has to hit a small weak spot on the turret face from 1000 meters, but the tiger just has to hit some part of the jumbo. Kursk becomes unplayable.
I just don't see the point of the jumbo at that br. The armor is too unreliable. You might as well just grab the e8, which is faster and also gets penned easily by everything it sees.
The tiger 1 maybe the tiger 2 stomps that thing 100% of the time.
@@thetankhunter100 dont event have to aim - if you quick brake and blindshot a jumbo around a corner and manage to hit him anywhere, you will one shot. The jumbo *must* hit the center of your mantlet (even hitting the turret face a little too high or low can force a ricochet). Even then he may only disable you and then die while chasing down your retreat. Stabilizers are helpful but cant quite tip the scale in this case imo.
How is the jumbo comparable if the any chance of doing anything to a Tiger 2 is either gun or a very small target at the turret front made stronger by volumetrics ? And no the stab doesnt matter when your entire tanks is a weak spot.
I play primarily Germany and there is not one situation I would take a Jumbo. With the long 88 it’s just another one shot Sherman and only the 76 gives me pause if he can land a shot on my turret cheek. But the workload of Jumbo vs KT isn’t even close, KT is flat out better in all scenarios.
Pretty interesting results. Now I'm more convinced that 6.3 gets more downtiers than 6.7 or 5.3-5.7. And I totally agree with you about the reliability of German teammates as they often can't assert proper map control and let the enemy push through when they normally shouldn't be able to. I often end up outnumbered 3 to 1 when playing the 6.7 king Tiger.
6.3 is either get 8 or more kils in a downtier or be uptiered to 7.3 where u just suffer there's no in-between
Yea I have the tiger 2 p and I got down tiered to like 4.7 - 5.3 and I got 15 kills
It probably comes down to how 7.7 is a really popular BR meaning if you play 6.7/7.3 you are way more likely to get into 7.7 games making 6.3 just be left behind without as many uptiers
and 7.0 is a guaranteed uptier
I recently grinded my russian tech tree by playing 5.3 and 8/10 matches where a full point uprank.
I think this might have something to do with not a lot of countries having a solid 5.3 line up but I'm really not sure.
I enjoyed the tiger 2
The only issue I had with it was fighting against players that knew how to aim, or had heat.
Which almost no tank except very few actually have heat that can pen tiger effectively at that br
@@kousand9917 I usually got up tiered in it, so it wasn't something I rarely had to compete with.
i dont use heat in my m56 , its not fun and it take many shot but so far matching agaisnt tiger 2 player, motst are braindead
@@chicuongvu1806 You should memorize ammo storage locations for the more common tanks you fight.
Hitting those with heat shells makes it easier.
Also, seal clubbing be like that.
lucky the former is very rare ;)
Honestly the teammate thing I feel is true, but at the same time it always seems like teammates are just not all there. You've got the guys who only spawn in 1 vehicle, or your team wins the initial engagement, gets all the zones and then walks into the enemy spawns and gets killed there because of spawn protection.
Or theres this third option the enemy team completely wipes your team with CAS :(
@@yourallygod8261 AD-4 superiority, that thing is a tank in the sky sometimes
I can certainly agree, and it isn't just Germany, at least at the ranges around 4.7 br; through the past few days I played grinding the Soviet tree I have seen an increase in neglect from teammates to even watch their flanks. Russian players in KVs act like new Tiger players; and in the matches I have fighting against Germans there is an increase of German players watching their flanks and supporting teammates at this br.
Which furthers my view you can have a team of donkeys, regardless the nation.
@@press_here__8697 Not if you use one of the hundreds of aircraft in game and intercept them.... Then any unchallenged CAS becomes just like any other vehicle in game.
Back when I used to play this game I also only ever took 1 vehicle (sometimes added a fighter). There's just no point. If I get taken down then the match is lost and there's no point wasting money bringing a second one into a doomed fight.
The exception would be low BR matches where repair costs aren't a concern and you're just playing a game rather than having a job.
Spook: *Plays Tiger II in a way that utilizes its strength and does well*
German Mains: *Suprised Pikachu face*
No no its and I took that personally
@@Captain_Price539 lol. That's good too!
@@Halorulez24 exactly
overused more than the bomb knowing where it is because it isnt
I haven’t touched the P for a while since I just entered tier 5, and many ppl don’t know how to play German. 1 game I told someone to not push a spot where there was 2 light tanks on the cliff since my barrel got hit. He pushed anyways and the guy who got my barrel was smart enough to fall off the cliff and get me and my idiot teammate. Safe to say these ppl are usually don’t know there’s a map+chat function. Then there was 1 game where I got 9 kills on a close range map on the H variant.
can you made a video on "how bad was the M1128 Stryker MGS"? I've heard it's pretty horrible in real life. I would love to see that video! Thank you for the amazing content Spookston! Always appreciated!
From what I have heard the Stryker platform in general is pretty bad compared to the M113.
I drove one and its a real peice of shit
@@FirstDagger It's just so much more expansive to a m113 for not much of a benefit, also my god fuck the maintenance on the m1128 thing was designed by a damn masochist.
@@FirstDagger not compared to the m113 but compared to similar systems of the sime time period
my favorite bit is whenever someone brings up the stryker platform there is always a former or current crewman of one right under confirming that its a shitbox
I fell like every low tier German player wants to be the main character where they hold off the entire allied assault and then die :(
well, they manage the last part.
Dear Lord 6.3/7 is considered low tier?
*Cries in Tiger E*
@@pancytryna9378 Your stuck in the Tiger E grinding to the Tiger IIs I assume? Remember to angle, but beware, smart players will aim near your tracks as the lower sides are only 60mm thick, easily penned by most guns. Your best off trying to stay at medium ranges, and only pushing when you got support.
The funny thing is, the tiger 2 is PERFECTLY capable of doing that if you know how to and its not a 7.3~7.7 match.
Considering the Tiger and Tiger 2 historically operated on large flat open plains, German players have a point. What's with the ridiculous amount of city maps, and maps will lots of hills? Is this Gaijin way of balancing the game? This never happened in real life.
I think the reason why the Tiger 2 is rated to be so bad, and yes, I have played it, its that uptiers which happened quite frequently for me and my friends was absolute hell. On more then 10 cases, we attempted to fight M60s with no effect, however, the M60s chemical rounds would go straight through any surface of the tank. This goes for most MBTs and even the T44.
skill issue
Facts. I always get up tiered at 6.7/7.0. Same thing with 8.7. I just think that 7.7 and 9.7 are just extremely popular BRs compared to the ones directly below. 7.7 has a lot of lineups compared to the many weak lineups for the smaller nations at 6.7/7.0
@L Hard to snipe M60 from the front with APCBC
Every tank suffers from that, yet only german mains get BR hand holding while others are slapped.
>The T44
>THE T44
"But our stats dont lie" - War Thunder Dev Team
Player stats*
They don't, what their stats are actually saying is that muh Tigor players bad. As usual.
Cope bud
@@CyberneticArgumentCreator I've never head someone say what I just said. It's a fact that anyone who isn't a German player uses "muh germany suffers" as a coping technique.
@@CyberneticArgumentCreator and proof of this is literally any decent warthunder player. There's plenty of videos of people doing just as good in non german vehicles and its retarded when people trash people who wanna play the german technology tree all because their too garbage to learn how to very easily counter german vehicles. I'm saying this as someone who hasn't even played germany is ages after grinding the leopard 1
5.7 KD on War Thunder is insane, impressive
if you have KD over 3 then you have no life other than war thunder
and if you have KD over 5 then you sold your soul to Giajin the snail
@@kajetus0688 Me with a casual almost 50kd in my fav plane.
@@gabbreilblue443 was that kd aquirred through tank rb on that plane...
@@kajetus0688 I don't even play the game anymore it's so cancer and I always get the most retarded, braindead, waste of space "teammates" to exist.
More often then not I die cause of my teammates not even the enemy😭😭
@@yourallygod8261 lol
Huh. I never saw anyone say that the tiger 2p was bad. I personally don't have fun its it (I like the h) but it's a good tank. What I saw on the forums was a universal condemnation of Gaijin and German mains.
Imo Tiger II P's aren't bad at all, they're still a pretty big fucking threat but they're just somewhat easier to take down than the 2H because of that turret armour.
It's just that most tiger II players I've run into don't really get how to heavy tank and instead get themselves isolated.
Tho there's also the occasional tiger/panther packs that fucking steamroll allied teams
That’s the main skill issue with Tiger 2s - no one on the team knows how to cover for you. Ferdinand players hide to not get screwed by the repair cost, T2s charge straight into kill zones, and there are no mediums that can provide adequate support.
@@g.williams2047 i felt that part about the Ferdinand.
I see it all the time. Check German team chat at the end of the game.
A, so Gaijin had been able to make an authentic experience of having Painteryouth allies in your team? Cool.
I remember when I first unlocked the Tiger II p, and the absolute amazement I felt when I reversed in it. The speed was amazing, allowing me to retreat if I needed too, unlike the earlier slower Tigers/Panthers. War Thunder truly became a point and click adventure in that thing. Fast forward to today and the most I can do in it is hide somewhere because my team got wiped within 4 minutes of the match starting. And the leopard one having been moved down to 7.3 didn't help with getting good match making.
*spawns in Tiger II P*
“Why the fuck is there a Leopard 1 here?”
As a french main, except when playing the b1s or the arl 44, i'm surprised when my armor is working so i don't understand how a tank that is very hard to pen from the front and still has one the best perfoming cannon at its BR can be bad.
You can't expect to bounce evrything at less than a 100 meters where shells have all their kinetic energy and you can easily aim for weak spots and still be accurate.
all these other nations dont know how good they have it lol, we may have good pen and mobility but heavy tanks that can be killed by reserve vehicles and no filler or stab is quite hard to brawl with
Its the german playervase sadly, most of them either are new players, casual players or have missing brain cells or severe brain damage. Its sad because as an USA main, whenever i play germany im like:
1. I miss my stabilizer
2. OH WOW! Wtf ? this thing it's OP. Did i just bounce 27 shots and pen 7 heavies without aiming in my Panther mediun tank ?
@@aenaros6845 I'm surprised you don't get your turret nuked across the map by a 76mm M4
Turret traverse, hull traverse, ammo rack in turret, unrealiable teammates. Its a good sniper but is easily flanked and ammo racked and suffers in cqc because of low responsiveness, also barrel sniping meta from stabilised shermans.
@@cerdic6867 Here's my favourite thing that I have done to Tigers at 7.3. *Big 'ol BOOMSTICK hitting the front wheel of the driver side track and killing the whole Tiger? and also bullying a Tiger 2H? FV4005 says "BESH"*
The issue with the 2H is that once you hit 6.7, full up tiers get you to 7.7 where HEAT is common. At 6.3 going to 7.3 you don't have as good HEAT shells against you, and you also face more AP shells.
The 2P also has better turret sides at a shallower angle than the 2H meaning you get a rare bounce off them where it would pen a 2H.
The Tiger II was a waste of steel in real life. In War Thunder it's got a lot of potential, people just don't know how to play it cause they jizzed at a WWII documentary that called all German tanks "Unstoppable killing machines" and don't get me started on the teams you get paired up with
Why was it a waste of steel irl tho? There’s pretty much one guess I could make and that is that the crew wasn’t doing well in them
YOU PLAY WAR THUNDER?? I’ve watched your videos for almost 3 years now!
@@wesleysnipes5638 the things irl got out produced by shermans and t-34s while also having quite a few manufacturing problems and general reliability problems jsut to add on top of not having the fuel and oil need to run the things with a lack of parts and the such to repair the tanks
@@AlbertWillHelmWestings2618 Exactly. It also didn't have that much more benefits over the Tiger 1. Not to mention the Tiger II was VERY fuel hungry on top of the frequent engine fires and breakdowns.
not to mention the armor not actually being armor since germany didn't have any molybdenum left to put in it's steel
I laughed at the part where patrick said it's ok you can go when you feel like it
honestly I can never rely on German teammates
mainly bc they are clueless or do not look at the map
though at the same time I usually aggressively push the enemy team
which allows me to get kills, but as a result I will occasionally get caught out
come on don't pick on germen i play germen,russia,usa tanks and i been playing germeny and i found great teams you just got to tell they are cowards and most of the time they will push because you called them cowardy or say come on idlots my grandma could do better also works, it makes either pay more attection and do better or just makes them pissed off, most of the time it works
Hi. I agree...I've been german main for almost 3 years. Teams are usually pretty bad. I found this to be the case in most BR's. I mean...I outplay my team most of the time and I'm on a ps4 🤣🤣
@@blueduck8431 I have played Germany for over 6 years and now I branch off to other countries, but from my experience German players believe they are impervious to all damage due to the documentaries about German aces. Then they download War Thunder expecting the tiger 1 and 2 to be fighting shermans. Then they go complain on the forums about Germany suffers. Then they go back and play Germany and act like an idiot once again and the cycle repeats itself until they finally figure out how to play it.
0:38 I love how gaijin thinks it's OK for a tiger II to fight alongside a leopard
ItS A sKilL pRobLEM
What's really bad is that Gaijin thinks it's okay for the Jumbo to fight against a leopard.
Werhaboo
@@dulguunjargal1199 Freeaboo
@@AFT_05G Commieboo
Tiger II (P): love it and a very good tank
Tiger II (H): starts game, get destroyed without doing anything. And the repair cost... god NO.
Looks like Porsche its still usefull
H is much better than P however at 6.7 you’re doomed to play it against 7.3-7.7 vehicles with HEATFS.
@@Anoymous911 it stands for prototype not porsche
@@Comet1310YT go search in Google if you don't mind
Tiger II ( *H* ): Was made by *Henschel*
Tiger II ( *P* ): Was made by *Porsche*
@@Comet1310YT no for porsche. the 2p turret is from porsche (thats why theres a p) and the 2h turret is from Henschel (Thats why the h)
King tigers armor has more cracks than a poorly made highway
True, the weathering could be considered a greater enemy than tank rounds
@@Ghost0fPakistan or the "presicion" german engineering
Its a volumetric shell problem
allieboo myth
@@Jilve69 it's an in-game problem related to volumetric shells.
Yeah, not a big fan of heavies at that BR range. The Jumbo being an exception, as it plays more like a medium.
That's the reason the Jumbo is better. If you get uptiered in a tiger, your armor is worthless and you are just slow and huge. If you get uptiered in a jumbo, you're still pretty much a sherman.
Medium tank? Nah light tank at that point.
@@InternetStudiesGuy Lol what?Tell me anything that a Jumbo does better than Tiger II besides mobility.Tiger II doesn’t need a stabilizer as it’s suspension does the job.It’s cannon pens 90mm more with more explosive filter.
@@AFT_05G he’s talking when up-tiered (7.3-7.7) where armour starts to reduce so penn matters less or the shells have such high pen it makes armour meaningless and speed matters more an not just of tank but entire weapon system including traverse and load round kill time. The US APHE seems to have better after effect. But that could also be crew arrangements and Ammo arrangements.
HEAT FS makes the Tiger armour meaningless so treating a Jumbo like a normal sherman isn’t to hard unlike a Tigers and Panthers they don’t feel like Pz IVs for mobility.
I always say this to my friends when we play wt : "u cant spell kampfwagen without kamp" because the best way to play Germany at that BR is to play passively or camp, no matter what historians tell u about the tiger. Let the russians or americans push then counter attack
making armour-less americans push the counter attack while you sit on your fat, frontally impenetrable ass is not very good for the team.
I mean historians don't have a lot of good things to say about the Tiger.
As a Russian main I never have problems when facing up agains the 2P and really only die to one if its an ambush or they shot first. The 2H on the other hand is a bit of a challenge when facing it frontally. However the jumbo is extremely annoying imo due to the weak spot being so much smaller compared to the Tiger 2. Getting up tiered as often as I do just makes it more common for me to face the Tigers than a Jumbo lol
Yeah, as someone who plays both countries, fighting American tanks is almost always a bigger annoyance than fighting German tanks because you can easily find the weak spot of any Panzer, it’s the side and barrel. With American tanks shooting the barrel and flanking the sides isn’t as easy though…
As a Russian main you probably get accused of Russian bias at 6.7 despite Russia not having a 6.7 lineup.
i think one of the tigers weaknesses is that its so popular that everyone has every pixel sized weak spot in muscle memory to act in 0.0023ms when they see anything tiger related on enemy team
my experience with both tiger II, it's actually a good heavy, but the "most feared tank in ww2" title make me overconfident and rush recklessly and died as the result, but when i use it with "slow and careful" approach, i got better results, even nobody ever shot me
It's not fighting ww2 tanks is the problem lol
The best part about having lots of armour is not having to use it.
@@garryjacky577 Do you think the Pershing is a cold war tank?
The 76 Jumbo is easily my favorite tank and it angered me when they moved it, it wasn't a big move, but I'm tired of Gaijin making such stupid changes and it got me to stop playing War Thunder. I agree the Tiger II P isn't a bad tank, it's the weaker of the two but isn't bad. 12 full down tiers is amazing, but that's because 5.3 is an extremely popular BR. I do find your experiences hard to compare to most though as I've seen your stat card, you're far better then the average player. But most of my experience fighting the Tiger II P is people act as though they are invincible and get flanked or hit in the weak turret front when they should be in cover or angling their turret.
This is a very good example of why basing vehicle BR’s on player stats is unreliable. Everyone’s experience with a vehicle differs. Your experience is different from Spookston’s, and mine is different from yours. For me, the Tiger II P is far better than the Jumbo. Also, jumbos seem to think they’re invincible too. With the amount of Tigers and Panthers bouncing shells off of them, they assume the Tiger II will do the same. They often shoot at me, bounce, and sit outside of nearby cover, waiting to reload as I turn my turret towards them. They make no effort to reverse into nearby cover, and just sit there letting me front pen them, killing them. This scenario happens almost every game I play in the Tiger II, sometimes more than once. They seem to get “Tiger syndrome” from playing the jumbo.
I still absolutely slap with the Jumbo at 6.3. Because I'm not stupid and don't spawn it first at 6.7.
@@viktoriyaserebryakov2755 Ya 76 Jumbo is good on BR or in a downtier.
@@viktoriyaserebryakov2755 no one said you couldn't. But it still doesn't need to be 6.3.
@@edxcal84 And I never said anybody said that. Do not put words in my mouth we can play this game all day.
I quit War Thunder in probably 2015 or so (my memory is fuzzy) And at that point the Tiger II P grind is what made me quit the game; getting routinely obliterated by cold war tanks that you simply couldn't penetrate, which could penetrate you through every angle.
I can feel the frustration. Things have changed a lot since then. Now, when I'm in my t28, the main nation I fight against is germany, and they have a plethora of gimmick vehicles that can pen me. The Jp 4-5 with 400mm heat, and the german M41A1 that has heat too, which the american version doesn't. There's the Leopard 1 as well, but that's a full uptier. Wish I could say I don't run into them often, but that tank is so popular, it bleeds into half of the games I queue for. There's also the Marder which is a german SPAA that's disguised as a TD, with instakill missiles. Now they also have the ATGM Wiesel too. Germany is actual cancer to fight at 6.3, and by far, the worst tier for someone with the US lineup, it's just not fair or fun whatsoever. I swapped nations to Japan and have been having much more fun at that tier, though that nation has an awful lineup with hardly any vehicles, let alone viable ones. Germany and Russia tech trees get all the attention and it really shows.
Umm,there is not a single Cold War tank between 6.3-7.3 that Tiger II can’t penetrate.
I really appreciate the Subnautica music in the background
I recently spaded my tiger 2H, and found some similar results. Rarely there are people pushing and defending the caps, and covering flanks; a lot of them just stayed back and did nothing. I remember few matches where four or five tanks would just sit together far away from actions, watching a corner that no one ever visits.
But I don't think that's all to it. About 60% of my matches were full up-tiered to 7.7, and 30% to 7.3, where fighting Russian IS tanks became a severe problem. Especially in the map Breslaw, scenes like 2 is-3s and 1 is-6 fully control the urban area were commonplace. This is made more true when in a 7.7 game, about 30% of my team were always tiger 2s. Tiger 2H is a really good heavy tank when used against most other lights and mediums around its BR, but fighting things that it can never pen from the front, although logical (a 7.7 heavy should be able to kill a 6.7 heavy easily), still really kills its potential.
I would agree that the tiger 2P is a much more effective vehicle in the current situation though. Not because it is a better tank on paper than the H variant, it simply seems full and partial down-tiers way more often. The P is my first ground aced crew vehicle, and my K/D for it is around 3. Surely everything can pen its mantlet, wiggling it can negate a lot of those shots; whereas the H variant's 185mm mantlet and its *hull* both mean nothing against all the cold-war tanks.
Overall, I had a way better experience with the P, but it is still worth it to play the H. If you stick close to a cap point and try to defend it throughout the whole game, no matter which variant, you are promised to get at least 2 or 3 kills each game and likely survive longer.
and the repair cost its 15k for 2h (in arcade) it was my favourite tank and but the repair cost and uptiers is cancer
@@thisisnotok4811 yeah, in realistic, H is 10k and P is 2k lol
@@tedzhang4168 yeah stopped playing the H because of that but the P is frickin awesome
"wiggling" i've been shot (from the front) on the side of the turret and died so many times
me in my panther A having 11 kills uptiered to 6.7, and got holding down a point bymyself, my team half way across the map sniping, sadly we lost that game, but the other team instead of fighting me just didn't go over to the A point anymore, they just stoped caring with very much hurt me because i wanted more kills, and i almost got bombed twice, and i killed 2 poory placed T34, and 1 tiger (P), so panthers A,D can do work as long as you got a two lazy teams
gemans will find a way to be so bad in an op vehicle
I was in that battle with you on Kursk, Spook. The Jagdpanther @ 1:53 :D
I spaded both tiger 2s this week and from my experiance it's an alright tank the problem as a whole is just being uptiered against america or france which are countries with heat and fast tanks where regardless of your skill you'll still lose even though you get 5 kills most of your team will just leave with 0/2kills
*OI, YOU FORGOT A COUNTRY.*
@@airplanemaniacgaming7877 British tanks are 💩💩💩💩
@@noticing_patterns tell that to the mbts that fuck over heavys
@@giovanniscarano2027 if you wanna grind to 7.0 or beyond to finally get a acceptable tank be my guest 7.0-1.0 British tanks suck. I only like WW2 tanks I don't play that cold war everything pens everything garbage. I like 5.7 and 5.3
in ww2 : Tiger 2 meets M4A3 (76) And T-34-35
in war thunder : Tiger 2 meets the tank made in 1955/1970/1960/1945
The 6.3 Tiger is an amazing tank. It's a really secure feeling, to know that virtually whatever I look at will die. Yeah, the turret is rough, but every tank has a weak point.
Awww, i thought there would be some IRL information, but even that way it was still entertaining to watch, thank you.
Ironically I'd say those frontal turret weak spots are no longer penetrable by T-35-85 (5.7), I tried countless of time & at time from point blank & all of it was non-pen. But to relate to the video, when they are making everything in it's mother to destroy tanks & specially AA equipment, you know the game isn't on the right track & with such logic ZSU-57 is more deservedly a 6.3 but I'm not saying that it cannot work at it's BR as that.
I think because of its pen it would just be too good, i mean imagine an m42 at 2.0
@@blorb2120 yeah I know but that is the issue, you could always remove those over performing shells & make them more viable & usable at their ranges, I think when it comes to AA exclusively they should havr thier BR tied to era or year.
@@skl-1371 aye but imagine the zsu 57 with no ap...
@@blorb2120 considering the BR it would be at it (in sensible & logic universe) would do its AA job. Yeah you'd lose those fun shot at people showing sides but its an AA after all.
The way you showed those stats made we want to try and put them through a stats calculator (unfortunately, I lack the patience to do so).
I'm pretty much a German main and I never thought to myself that the tiger 2 was bad in anyway I believe most German Heavy tanks could be moved up perform just fine
spookston ur videos entertain me a lot thanks man
In my opinion it is 90% lineup, and that is good. If you get downtiered you can use the big cats and have a good time and if you are uptiered you can use fast, highpen light vihicles like LeKpz41 or Jagdpanzer 4-5. If you research evenly from BR to BR you will always have a good tank for every solution
totally agree with the teammate argument, had a jagdpanther once pinning down enemies on a hill, or so i thought before seeing him rush up to join me which just resulted on the enemies on the hill to flank us and kill us both. Never did I think that someone was dumb enough to go do some cqc in a jagdpanther like that.
i wonder what your opinion of the T34-57 is, in my personal experience its the best tech tree T34 in the game, as the D5T and the 85 both have similar penetration but with far slower reloads and less survivable turrets.
For me it’s the T-34 1942. The armor is ridiculous effective while it also has the best mobility of low tier medium tanks.
Only the German T-34 can top that by having even more armor.
The 57 is alright but faces a lot vehicles with high penetration, making it more likely to get penetrated through the sides.
Main issue with the 57 is that its far less viable at sniping due to the light weight of the gun, and if I remember correctly it has to face things that can more easily penetrate the T-34, though I haven't played the 57 in a long time.
same pen, but the 57 sometimes need 2 shots to destroy some tanks because of less explosive filler than 85
edit: dont forget to use apcbc, your shell won't gaijined very often
Eh pros and cons. 57 strength is it's general flat trajectory and reload. Also since the 57 is a much smaller shell volumetric doesn't effect it as much on flat armor but it really acts little better than apcr.
85 D5t has better post pen and better pen on angled armor. It's also has a slight speed advantage over the 57 and I've found it to out perform the 57 on rougher terrain and hills. The better armored turret is a moot point as everything can punch through both. Still can thread the needle with the 85 but it is alot harder when running up against tiger e or tiger 2.
Personally I prefer the 57 over the 85 D5T but not over the 85 S53 and I have spent much time on all 4 of them. Then again you are fighting generally different things at 4.7 vs 5.3-5.7. I find panthers more annoying than the tiger 2 but I figured it's because I run into more panthers than tigers in general
As someone who got Ace crew in T 34-57 by playing it, it is the most undertiered vehicle in the game, playing it feels like playing an MBT against a sherman because it has all three of what makes a tank good : Mobility second only to M18, Armor that can bounce USA 76 and short 88 when angled and moving while also having a low profile, and a gun that penetrates as much as USA 76 with 5s reload and very flat trajectory due to its velocity combined with SPAA turret turn, it could be 6.0 and it'll still perform well like the T20
Tank you for using subnautica music
Ngl I love the tiger 1 and 2 tanks!
Same
I played with you on that ash river match and Karelia in my Japanese 5.7 lineup. It was an honour sir love your vids
The most time I dies in a tiger 2 P is a revenge kill with a bomb.
This is truth.
Every time I watch one of the compilations it takes me a solid 40 seconds to figure out why I'm having a HM2 flashback
Spookston if you only use yourself as a example the stats are only gonna be positive considering your a veteran player and not considering anyone else like other regular players or enemy players making it pointless to even make this without taking stats of other players of course I may be stupid but this is how I feel
Precisely, it's anecdotal. His experiences starting out can be explained with a lot fewer high-penetration vehicles existing at that BR, his experiences now are explained with his skill. He's not at all representative of the average.
He's said many times that he's an average player
@@tornadok1078 no he is not lmfao
@@tornadok1078 He can say that, and he can even believe that being a humble man, but he most certainly is not average regardless. He has played the game for thousands, if not tens of thousands, of hours. He makes content about it in a professional capacity. Hell, we just saw him go 5.0 kd, and get a 20+ kill match. An average player does not get a 20+ kill match more often than once in a blue moon even with the most broken vehicles out there. An average player does not manage to get a nuke in, what, a week since that feature was released? An average played by definition does not have a k/d of 5.
This doesn't change the facts at all. Skill does not determine your armor or gun caliber. The tiger 2 is objectively not a bad tank, there is no subjective.
Can't believe gaijin actually tried to put the 76 jumbo on the same level as the leopard 1
Also consider the forced 1st stage ammo rack that got added a few years back. That was a big nerf for the Tiger-2 tanks. Since it allmost insurers it will get 1 shotted if penned through the turret.
While you were sitting there looking at the M56, I was just thinking "MACHINE GUN!?!?!?"
Could you make one of these about the Churchill VII sometime? I feel like that tank gets uptiered way too much to be playable because of the amount of people playing 5.3 Germany
Sadly the Churchill 7 is too dead to be taken a note of. Just like the Churchill 3
@@dessertfoxo4096 I got one match with 6 counting me once, it was hilarious lmao
Yeah, it's funny watching peaple pankic when there multiple Churchills, their ability to ain goes out the window.
Doesn't beet watching a tiger bounce 20+ rounds because the brain dead fucker keeps firing center of mass. On a Churchill.
@@dessertfoxo4096 all aim goes out the window when the Churchill player doesn't stop moving forward
Yup. Especally when they zig zag.
These videos are just Spookston showing off his immense skill.
I'm not complaining though.
perfect proof of why balancing vehicles based off of stats is a bad idea. only reason why the tiger is the same br as the jumbo is because of idiot wehraboos holding down W and blasting Erika, not to say that there arent idiot freeaboos as well, there are just more wehraboos than freeaboos
Yeah, I'd say Tiger 2 belongs in 8.7 and Maus is hillariously undertiered and actually should be 9.3.
The armor is just way too good, especially against HeatFS and APFSDS and Sabot it just bounces all of it effortlessly. Also we should at least triple the repair cost and add another 27 EBRs starting at 2.3 with stabilizer.
@@skdKitsune what flavour crack are you piping?
@@skdKitsune Almost did it but fell down
@@skdKitsune THAT Gaijin, do THAT
@@lucasdement5629 the same shit you got hooked on bruv
When you started the kill clip, tiger 2 was like "allied angles? Pfffff what's that?"
The most interesting part of this for me is that you were downtiered more than uptiered whenever I play 6.7 I get uptiered almost every game and assumed 6.3 was similar
The reason why these BRs are different is because 7.3 is not populate as much as 7.7. You more more likely to get a 7.7 game because there are more of them, whereas at 6.3 you are much less likely to get fully uptiered to 7.3.
As a subnautica fan i liked that you used the music of it
You just brought up the "Germany is bad" argument to explain away this tiger and not only that but you never bothered playing the H variant which can get annihilated on a regular basis if your not careful or get Uptiered.
The map control issue is concerning but I think this is more own to the mobility issues and although it may not seem like the jumbo's stabiliser is worth much in 6.3 it can destroy the tigers P and H's barrel and shoot the tracks off before the tiger has time to properly respond and aim for weak spots though i have witnessed very few jumbo players do this. The Tiger two H suffers a lot more than the P and if you boil it down it is in the same situation as the jumbo with it facing tanks superior to it an a lot of fashions. The amount of knit picking in this video is unbelievable
Agreed he should play the tiger2h variant
Never knew Bill Clinton was based
players till BR 5.7 : Hail to the kings!
players after 5.7: Oh F*ck you kings
kings : 😭😭😭😭😭😭
The montage that showed how "good" the Tiger 2p is supposed to be really only showcased the long 88 shooting soft targets and side shots(which is also an average gun at an uptier, but that's another story). It really didn't show the Tiger doing anything that heavies are supposed to do, eg take hits and brawl. In that role the Tiger p performs as an obese , slow medium tank at best. Honestly didn't show anything a Panzer 4 or panther couldn't do.
After having cyber bullied so many tiger 2P’s in Cold War tanks, I straight up never crewed the 2P I don’t believe. I think most of the issues people have, are them being out of place in the tank, and being uptiered. Good video as always
I dont think the P or H is bad. I use it in 7.3, and I do better with it than my leopard 1.
Then you must be facing some serious noobs or don't know how to use the leopard
@@bro3217 X2
You're probably awful with the leopard 1 if you're doing better in a tiger 2
how the f can you do better in a tiger II than in an arguably VERY undertiered leo 1 lol...
@@rarespetrusamartean5433 He's probably better with heavy tank strategies than with medium tank strategies.
Nice video!
Lmao tiger 2s are strong it's the players that are bad, all they know how to do is rush in a tank they think has heavy armor then getting shot from the side or from a weak point, yeah no shit other players can aim it's part of the game, next thing you know they want the Tiger 2 to fight short 75mm guns
And the worst thing is,they will get their way.
I think you mean BRs are an issue. Whenever I fight any tank in 7.0 or above range just about everything the tiger relies on becomes obsolete. Gaijoobles did this to themselves and now the playerbase is paying the price
"Its ok rocky you go when you feel like it" that just sums up the whole map
next time when testing vehicles, dont use a content creator account. Those accounts get downtiered more often, and you will meet lower levels. Accounts without the content creator buffs suffer much more from uptiers
@@jackvernian7779 since content creators don’t tell you the amount of matches they played in a normal gameplay video, it’s hard to know. However during livestreams it gets surprisingly obvious. Of course it also depends on the BR, but the chances of getting uptiered are already likely above 70% on non content creator accounts. It might take a while to realize but you can do minor tests like count how many games the content creator has played also keep track how many were uptiers, downtiers, or same tier, then compare them with your results. Don’t forget to play on the same region though
@@timo8430 someone deleted my comment, idk why.
@@jackvernian7779 weird
I honestly don’t understand why some people don’t like the tigers. I absolutely love the tiger series in general and feel it’s really fun to play, at least for my semi aggressive play style. The 2P is currently my highest performing tank but the 2H is creeping up there. I love when it’s CQC, someone comes up close, tries to pierce my angled armor, and I just respond with a laugh and another kill. Only thing I’ll never like about using tiger 2s are the massive uptiers I get.
As I say, German tanks BRs are based on the player base skill
Every nations' tanks. Only problem is more people chose germany as a main I assume and the ones that are bad blame the tank
Spookston needs Content Creator decal change my mind.
Huh, so it's true that the reason of "Germany suffering" is in fact the cumulative lack of skill and, especially, teamplay of Germany mains. At this point the Tiger 2 can go to 2.3, get killed by an M10 in a full uptier or a ZiS-30 and they still would complain.
Very nice video, Tiger 10.5 is the one i like the most, it is faster and also it has 350g HE filler so it overpressures a lot (+ rangefinder), it even might be a bit OP. The teams are quite bad, they usually give up after one or two deaths, luckily German CAS is OP and mitigates this.
yeah its second reason i stopped playing WT , there is massive skill gap between nations.
Bf 110 C7 with it's trusty 2 500kg bombs.
@@ushikiii or mk 103, or 50mm cannon, or 37mm cannon etc.
* hears montage music from other room *
Me: that's Alex Yarmak isn- yeeaaaa
I wouldn't even say you need to play passively in a Tiger, you just need to be more calculated in your aggression.
Also, I definitely agree with your point about stabilizers. If you need a stabilizer to perform well in cqc, you have a skill issue.
>favorable matchups
>small inconvenience
*We must be playing two entire different games Spookston.*
''How bad is the Tiger 2'' play objectively the best Tiger 2.
Tiger II gun is very stable, I hit a PT76 at 1.6km while both of us were moving the other day.
"It can penatrate the jumbo anywhere while the tiger only has a small turret weakspot." Thats just playing the american tree in general
The tiger 2p is imo an amazing tank. I like to start matches slow and snipe at the start in downtiers and uptiers. In a downtier match I recommend to brawl with it but you want to brawl with friends. Turning away the turret slightly helps to bounce some 76mm shots and then your teammates can shoot at the enemy and distract them. In a full downtier match the tiger 2p has to enable the tiger h1 and e to play their role and it can do so. The gun and velocity of the shell is so good for this BR that you can maximize the potential of this tank by aiming with binoculars, shooting on the move or shooting through houses like you did in the video.
I never really see this mentioned but i think its also worth considering. When playing Germany especially at 5.0-7.0 you end up with teams that are just Germany so your team ends up largely being composed of tiger 2s, tigers, and panthers which are all pretty great tanks but the team suffers from pretty much only having heavy tanks. So the tends to be troubles punching through American t34s and pershings/super pershings (although knowledge of their weak spots greatly reduces this they can still be very troublesome on very long range maps like Aral Sea) , plus uk and french tanks can punch through your armor like butter
In the rare occasions i play WT i enjoy going back to low/mid tiers and play the tiger 10cm, even if its annoying to constantly face is3 is4s and so on, it does pretty good and is very fun to play
“The Tiger has to be played more passively.”
Isn’t that how it was historically?
Pretty much. It was almost never used offensively as far as I’m aware.
Telling what is wrong or bad after 26 games played by one player. Pure genius.
Thank god. I play a lot of Germany because i like their vehicle aesthetics and their playstyle but even then i thought it was unfair for the jumbo to be uptiered. I'm so glad you did a video like this which highlights that the opponents it goes up against are not favorable for an uptier. Love your work and this video, keep it up!
1:20 more rare footage of one of spookston's enemies snot being completely blind
the recurring theme:
German tanks are quite good and even op
its just that the people that use them are brain ded and dont know either what awareness is or dont know how to use the tank properly
case and point: Tiger 1
The 2(P) is actually my favorite tank in-game, along with the German M48s.
Gaijin: So we are now moving Tiger II P to 5.7
I have an idea if that's a thing on this channel:
Maybe continue this series but with popular aircraft in Warthunder? A couple good ideas to start (in my opinion) could be the CW - 21, and the IL - 2.
The Tiger II P is one of my favorite vehicles in War Thunder. I am shocked that many players think it’s bad for some reason
because you vs T-54s
I will admit absolutely, as a German main, 6.3 BR is literally golden. It has bad time at uptiers but at a 6.3/6.7 match or downtier match, the lineup is fucking invincible. I almost always will get 5-8 kills in the Ferdinand, a good few in the King Tiger IF i die in the Ferdinand, then just the Arado is a good aerial support.
I think the tiger 2 P is really similar to the Tiger 1 at its own BR, when facing idiots it can be extremely effective. When facing a skilled player, its not particularly great because its easy to exploit.
Admittedly the 2 P has less weak spots than the Tiger 1, but thats sorta compensated by getting HEAT and APDS spammed by higher tier vehicles
If you play it right the Tiger II P is downright nasty.
I have an interesting suggestion to make, just to shake things up a bit: how about looking at some of the low tier SPAA to see how bad they are, especially compared to the Wirbelwind and R3 and why some nations would rather use lower br SPAA in high br lineups over the others: UK Crusader Mk. 1, USSR 37mm SPAA, both USA 40mm Bofors.
I guess it just comes down to what you said, the Jumbo is just more suited for this kind of aggressive play.
This fits warthunder battles more, seeing how pushing objectives is the main way to win.
Now if there where gamemodes that allowed 1 side to attack, and 1 to defend, then a defending tiger would probably be a lot scarier than a defending jumbo
But in our current gamemodes, A tiger 2 on the defence means that more mobile tanks already won the attack to get to that point.
You should do a video on the Tortoise if you haven't yet. I love the idea of a moving fortress.
The whole thing about team being unreliable is extremely accurate, Ive only had like 2 teams that were competent out of at least 23 matches, and even then I also get uptiered 96% of the time, with 3% being equal br and 1 being downtiers.
the tiger 2 p is better than the h. the h has a thicker turret front but its flat so it is the same thickness everywhere, and at 6.7 it will face more opponents with enough pen to go through the turret. the p even though its turret is thinner the way its rounding is steeper than many other tanks with rounded turret fronts makes it much more difficult to penetrate at a distance because if you hit too high or too low the effective thickness is pretty high
I find that one thing that helps when using the tiger II is to play it like its a tank destroyer, not a heavy
says "its just for entertainment" then proceeds to get 12 kills in one match