Glad this was entertaining! We just wanted to bring something back to the channel during these times. Though we will very likely continue this for a long time.
You guys are underselling elrond. There's a reason Jay Clare has taken elrond based non knight lists to a couple tournies. An Elrond focused list is real hard on enemy hordes, especially with arwen. The double blast KD is extremely strong an opener
Thanks guys for the thoughts! I don't like the Theodred's Guard LL (because he doesn't have any power heroes to support him - Grimbold lacks Strike, Elfhelm has good shooting but is kinda meh in combat), so I looked to vanilla Rohan because I like him and need someone to attack. I've been relying on the second banner because I tend to have Eomer and Theodred split up and they both want to have a banner. Will look into running without it. :) The Royal Guards for me need to have throwing spears to be effective - waiting for them to charge before they can do anything just doesn't seem to work for me. That being said, I used a 700-point variant of this list a few weeks ago against Angmar - needless to say, I'm looking into Royal Guard (and possibly getting more throwing spears). :)
On the match up I think a key thing you guys forgot is that the ents have 18" S10 throw stones with 3 might behind them. You can do the wounds needed to break sauron or kill the WK from range pretty easy. Once you do that you can focus on and break the orcs much earlier in the game and much more likely to flee before escaping the board.
True, but there are only 3 Ents with stones, and I have to stand still to use them (which means that Sauron and the Witchking could duck out of sight behind buildings if need be). It's not a quick kill strategy in a reconnoiter scenario.
@@mattiverson2904 Its a range threat which helps dictate board control. If Sauron is running away out of sight and fear of your throw stones I put that as a win. If he doesn't i would be confident that the 3 ents could do 3 wounds to Sauron (enough enable the break) in 2 turns with the might, potentially 1.
Rainier's Witch-King build is my preferred - 155 points of budget pain (I often add the Morgul Blade, but I guess something has to give if you're bringing Sauron)...
Hi, here's a potential list for analysis: 555 pt mordor/Corsair list potentially for a tournament: The witch king with crown + mtd + 3/15/3 (leader) Saurons mouth mtd - 11 morannons (shield +spear) - 1 orc tracker (on warg) - 2 orc trackers Dalamyr -11 black numenorens The idea of this list is basically making the enemy heroes useless and if they went out of W dalamyr goes straight in and kills them. Saurons mouth isnt rly supposed to go in fighting a lot but more for a sorcerer in third line so if dalamyr gets caught by a hero saurons mouth can "transfix" him (im sry if the terms aren't quite correct I only have the German rules) and save dalamyr. Although saurons mouth can go into combat too if needed of course. Would be interesting what you guys think about that list and what you would change:)
Being F5 is great against low Fight factions like Goblin-town and Moria only in that you can Feint without worrying about what you get - a spear model will make this irrelevant, but it means you can go unsupported to offset the body count disadvantage and retain the wounding-roll boosting benefit of Feint.
Potential list for review... I hear you like Mirkwood Spiders... Witch King 75 4 Mirkwood Spiders 80 4 Hunter Orcs 32 4 Hunter Orcs with Bows 36 2 Hunter Orcs with Two-handed Picks 18
The Forsaken 75 4 Mirkwood Spiders 80 4 Hunter Orcs 32 4 Hunter Orcs with Bows 36
Goblin Mercenary Captain 50 9 Goblin Mercenaries 45 53 models mostly with 2 attacks each, 12 Mirkwood Spiders, lots of movement tricks and other shenanigans!
Isn't the drum effecting orcs only? If so, WK, Sauron and BNs can charge even if in his bubble. My money goes on Sauron, btw. I feel he has the edge, here.
I like running Rivendell with Numenor - favoring Isildur with the Ring over Elendil and favoring Elrond over Gil-Galad (and running Cirdan as well, of course). While Elendil is really good, Isildur will auto-win with the Ring on in combat with 3 Attacks and S5 (option to 2H as well) - and for only 125pts with a shield....
Wood Elf Warriors (Noldorin Exiles) are not really cheaper than High Elf Warriors - the only reason you want them is because you want throwing weapons on 8" move models. High Elf Warriors are very resilient, but 2/3 won't do anything until they engage. Throwing daggers can be lethal against 5" move models (where you can sit outside of their charge range and still shoot at them).
Hi all! Straight up 700 points Mordor list here I am thinking of taking to a tournament. I wanted to have WK on fell beast fell beast + Shelob to have double the threat and mobility. I’m concerned about my numbers currently on getting the Mordor army bonus and breaking too early. Interested what you have to say on it! Witch King with crown on fell beast 3M16W3F - Leader 5 morannon orcs with shield 2 morannon orcs with shield spear 2 orc warriors with spear and bow 1 orc warrior with spear 1 orc tracker on warg Gorbag with shield 5 morannon orcs with shield 1 morannon orc with banner spear shield 4 morannon orc with spear shield Guritz 4 morannon orcs with shield 5 morannon orcs with shield spear 1 orc tracker on warg Shelob 35 models total, 9 might, 4 bows P.S. If interested models I could potentially sub in are: Gothmog on foot, regular wraith, troll chieftain, mouth of Sauron, Shagrat, morannon captain, morannon shaman, orc captain, orc taskmaster, orc shaman Black guards, morannon orcs, orc warriors, black numenoreans, orc trackers, warg riders, mordor troll
Haha yeah it pretty much is! We probably would have played a proper game if it wasnt for Coronavirus lol. I think we will also experiment with other ways to show tactical analysis of a game as the podcast continues too!
@@dchobbitleague8191 I could see a potential situation at NOVA or Ardacon next year when we do a mini-Duel half-day tournament and have it streamed. Would be fun!
Best Middle-Earth Tabletop podcast! Greetings from Germany!
Guys...this was really fun and interesting. Great idea to keep hobby going while we are stuck at home
Glad this was entertaining! We just wanted to bring something back to the channel during these times. Though we will very likely continue this for a long time.
You guys are underselling elrond. There's a reason Jay Clare has taken elrond based non knight lists to a couple tournies. An Elrond focused list is real hard on enemy hordes, especially with arwen. The double blast KD is extremely strong an opener
Thanks guys for the thoughts! I don't like the Theodred's Guard LL (because he doesn't have any power heroes to support him - Grimbold lacks Strike, Elfhelm has good shooting but is kinda meh in combat), so I looked to vanilla Rohan because I like him and need someone to attack.
I've been relying on the second banner because I tend to have Eomer and Theodred split up and they both want to have a banner. Will look into running without it. :)
The Royal Guards for me need to have throwing spears to be effective - waiting for them to charge before they can do anything just doesn't seem to work for me.
That being said, I used a 700-point variant of this list a few weeks ago against Angmar - needless to say, I'm looking into Royal Guard (and possibly getting more throwing spears). :)
On the match up I think a key thing you guys forgot is that the ents have 18" S10 throw stones with 3 might behind them. You can do the wounds needed to break sauron or kill the WK from range pretty easy. Once you do that you can focus on and break the orcs much earlier in the game and much more likely to flee before escaping the board.
True, but there are only 3 Ents with stones, and I have to stand still to use them (which means that Sauron and the Witchking could duck out of sight behind buildings if need be). It's not a quick kill strategy in a reconnoiter scenario.
@@mattiverson2904 Its a range threat which helps dictate board control. If Sauron is running away out of sight and fear of your throw stones I put that as a win. If he doesn't i would be confident that the 3 ents could do 3 wounds to Sauron (enough enable the break) in 2 turns with the might, potentially 1.
Rainier's Witch-King build is my preferred - 155 points of budget pain (I often add the Morgul Blade, but I guess something has to give if you're bringing Sauron)...
Hi, here's a potential list for analysis: 555 pt mordor/Corsair list potentially for a tournament:
The witch king with crown + mtd + 3/15/3 (leader)
Saurons mouth mtd
- 11 morannons (shield +spear)
- 1 orc tracker (on warg)
- 2 orc trackers
Dalamyr
-11 black numenorens
The idea of this list is basically making the enemy heroes useless and if they went out of W dalamyr goes straight in and kills them. Saurons mouth isnt rly supposed to go in fighting a lot but more for a sorcerer in third line so if dalamyr gets caught by a hero saurons mouth can "transfix" him (im sry if the terms aren't quite correct I only have the German rules) and save dalamyr. Although saurons mouth can go into combat too if needed of course.
Would be interesting what you guys think about that list and what you would change:)
Being F5 is great against low Fight factions like Goblin-town and Moria only in that you can Feint without worrying about what you get - a spear model will make this irrelevant, but it means you can go unsupported to offset the body count disadvantage and retain the wounding-roll boosting benefit of Feint.
Potential list for review... I hear you like Mirkwood Spiders...
Witch King 75
4 Mirkwood Spiders 80
4 Hunter Orcs 32
4 Hunter Orcs with Bows 36
2 Hunter Orcs with Two-handed Picks 18
Lingering Shadow 75
4 Mirkwood Spiders 80
4 Hunter Orcs 32
4 Hunter Orcs with Bows 36
2 Hunter Orcs with Two-handed Picks 18
The Forsaken 75
4 Mirkwood Spiders 80
4 Hunter Orcs 32
4 Hunter Orcs with Bows 36
Goblin Mercenary Captain 50
9 Goblin Mercenaries 45
53 models mostly with 2 attacks each, 12 Mirkwood Spiders, lots of movement tricks and other shenanigans!
Isn't the drum effecting orcs only? If so, WK, Sauron and BNs can charge even if in his bubble.
My money goes on Sauron, btw. I feel he has the edge, here.
Very true that non-orcs can still charge! And we agree with your vote :P
Why us heroic march so important?
I like running Rivendell with Numenor - favoring Isildur with the Ring over Elendil and favoring Elrond over Gil-Galad (and running Cirdan as well, of course). While Elendil is really good, Isildur will auto-win with the Ring on in combat with 3 Attacks and S5 (option to 2H as well) - and for only 125pts with a shield....
I've also used Glorfindel, but agree with Rainier in that he just doesn't kill enough for me...
Wood Elf Warriors (Noldorin Exiles) are not really cheaper than High Elf Warriors - the only reason you want them is because you want throwing weapons on 8" move models. High Elf Warriors are very resilient, but 2/3 won't do anything until they engage. Throwing daggers can be lethal against 5" move models (where you can sit outside of their charge range and still shoot at them).
Hi all! Straight up 700 points Mordor list here I am thinking of taking to a tournament. I wanted to have WK on fell beast fell beast + Shelob to have double the threat and mobility. I’m concerned about my numbers currently on getting the Mordor army bonus and breaking too early. Interested what you have to say on it!
Witch King with crown on fell beast 3M16W3F - Leader
5 morannon orcs with shield
2 morannon orcs with shield spear
2 orc warriors with spear and bow
1 orc warrior with spear
1 orc tracker on warg
Gorbag with shield
5 morannon orcs with shield
1 morannon orc with banner spear shield
4 morannon orc with spear shield
Guritz
4 morannon orcs with shield
5 morannon orcs with shield spear
1 orc tracker on warg
Shelob
35 models total, 9 might, 4 bows
P.S. If interested models I could potentially sub in are:
Gothmog on foot, regular wraith, troll chieftain, mouth of Sauron, Shagrat, morannon captain, morannon shaman, orc captain, orc taskmaster, orc shaman
Black guards, morannon orcs, orc warriors, black numenoreans, orc trackers, warg riders, mordor troll
Ive noticed the duel is quite similar to fantasy football. But middle Earth is already fantasy isn't it? 😂
Haha yeah it pretty much is! We probably would have played a proper game if it wasnt for Coronavirus lol. I think we will also experiment with other ways to show tactical analysis of a game as the podcast continues too!
@@dchobbitleague8191 I could see a potential situation at NOVA or Ardacon next year when we do a mini-Duel half-day tournament and have it streamed. Would be fun!