Cut and Buff The right way with David Brost and Frank Roll
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
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auto restoration masters David Brost and Frank Roll demonstrate on a dark-colored door and a light-colored side panel of a car how to achieve professional show-quality finishes on any automotive surface.
True craftsmanship. Thanks for sharing in such detail.
When I lived in Jakarta I learned from an Australian to add some soap to my wet sanding water. It makes the sandpaper slide easier: it also allows the paper to cut better, and last longer. I used Rinso laundry soap because it was all I had.
Never use laundry soap on your vehicle or any paint job it has strippers that remove all of the wax that you just worked so hard to put on
I always tape all edges when wetsanding. It doesn’t remove the orange peel for the little 1/16” the tape is covering, but it’s hardly noticeable and eliminates burn through. For show quality I can see why you color sand at the edges though
best video for learning your traide . thanks for your time.
Great tips this video is almost like taking an actual class
Thanks for the instructive video
Good video - ensure to use a very clean bucket and change the water frequently and wipe the panel off frequently to ensure that a piece of trash doesn't get under the sandpaper giving a scratch that you will see it when it is buffed. You can also look for it as you wipe the water away as it will show if you look carefully. Listen for a "squeek' when you are sanding - that is a piece of dirt making the noise and grinding into the clear
hey, great vid.
ive used a DA pollisher and after i was done i sitll seen scratches on an angle. Ive used 1k to remove the orange peel (looked great and smooth)2k 3k 4k to finish off. will a makita rotary be a better choice now?
Wow honestly I'm so impressed... Such a Good presentation with experience and educational background (;)) Well the fact is : so many people taking videos about polishing but not so many videos worthy to watch at all !!! but this one : you must not missing out to watch! If you know what I'm mean? Lol
Instead of applying compound by hand in tight areas, you should try using a 2" dia. disc and pad with the buffer.
Sometimes I'll cut and buff a car and it looks like glass,then the next morning it looks hazy and I have to polish the car or truck once again and after that it will stay glossy.What would cause that.
@@filibertobarrera3839 each car is diferent right... 2008 black yukon, hard paint. Went thru a bush of trees and i cut it with 3m polish heavy duty. Then i polished it with 3d polish to achieve a mirror shine, consequently, i used a mcguiars next tech wax with the dual action polisher and left it set over nihght. Next morning the yukon looked full of dust, then i whipped it off in circular patterns uniformly and came up with a melting glass like shine. The secret of a process job like the one you described and the one i mentioned is in the polishing step to be carried out evenly and thoroughly to conciencse and repeat the process as many times as needed until the car paint looks at its maximum shine degree. Then the wax or silycone, depnding what you decide to apply will protect the paint buff for weeks or a few months and will give it a spectacular shine like melting glass. I hope that answers your question and keep in mind that all cars are different. Its no the same type of paint a BMW 301i as a jeep wrangler. They both require different approach and expect different results, yet the secret is in the 2nd step polish buff
What does mean when you buffing and it’s leaving a lot of sand
Beautiful high gloss, but Jesus! ,that video for one door was two hours long. How much labor$$ to color sand the whole car.
Hii. Does the same technique apply to every colour especially to white?
Yes it does!
Highly Detailed info. Great stuff. However, there seems not to be a good as this video for MOTORCYCLE Tanks and fairings which are very contoured and quite different. I know the auto finishing world does not like to deal with these hence the reason I sought to DIY it. Seems I shoulda tuned in before I even started painting cause now I see some of the mistakes I made in the basecoat and now at the clearcoat buffing stage, I guess I have to live with what I got (slight orange peel in basecoat) or strip it all back off and start over. Seeing as it is black it shows every imperfection........sigh.
Thank Heaps though, it did help me. High Five (mundane I know)
Ok tell me do you compound the roof down to the rockers or vise versa?
Is the “Orange Peel” in the base coat or the Clear Coat level? I just finished a deep scratch repair on my 2012 VW Passat (Black). I’m using Eastwood 2k Spray Epoxy Primer/ 2k Urethane Primer Fillers , Spray Max 1k Basecoat, and 2k Glamour Clear. But, before clear coat app, I noticed I have orange peal so should I block base coat or should I go ahead and apply 2k Clear coat then block /buff to remove orange 🍊 peel?
@PHARRAWAY What’s the point of “Like” ing my Comment if you’re not going to answer or address the underlying concern or question? 🤷🏽♂️
@@carmelom269 lol you can block your base with 800 grit and then apply the clear
PHARRAWAY Actually, before you replied I started to do this with actually 600/800/1000/1500 then back to 400/600/800. Had to reapply another coat of Spray Max 1K Basecoat and soon as this dries in about 30 Minutes, I’ll apply two coats of SprayMax 2K Clear Glamour. Thanks for clarification and confirmation I’m proceeding accordingly. 👍
I'd make the painter help sand it' that's some of the worst orange peel I've ever seen.
You should also use a spray bottle instead of a rag ' a rag will pick up and hold dirt and cause scratches.
Be sure that those guys in the background aren't throwing grinding slag your way. That stuff will dig into the clear when you're buffin'.
how many clear coats do you recommend?
2 clear coats and a flood coat
4 even coats
Is that clear coat 2k or acrylic ????
2k clear coat
@@PHARRAWAY
MS or HS clear? How long does it take to dry? fast/med/slow hardner?
@@clevo351 it's a HS with slow hardner
That has to be the worst off gun finish ivr seen did you use a 2.4 or 1.8 air cap and fluid tip OMG
This call one hour of sanding 🙃
@ $30. An Hour per Hour...
Look
you are supposed to let the sand paper soak in clean fresh water for 5 minutes prior to use according to ASE
Truly one of the most professional demonstrations i have seen. The concern for the quality of the work is so very sincere and evident. I have learned so much from this video surely as much as years of experience would yield. Thank you so very much for taking the time to share your skills and your knowledge .
For real.
I don't know what clear coat your useing but it's horrible l just started painting 5 months ago sprayed 22 cars and only one had to be cut and buffed but it was 102 degrees in the booth and high humidity all with ACME FC 740 clear, l had so little orange peel they wasn't matching factory job's l had to learn how not to do so well, , just did my first flow coat on a 80 Bronco it's like glass and looks 5 foot deep.
I've been a painter for 44 years. We used alot of lacquer and enamels with hardeners and we were taught to clean the vehicle so clean after sanding for painting that we very seldom had to rub a job . We sprayed so wet and smooth there was no reason to sand and buff. Clear coats that have to be sanded and buffed and polished could make anyone a painter...
david zornes , it’s not any easier. It’s a different paint formulation and process.. With base/clear you’re putting down way more product in fewer coats than with lacquer or single stage. Base/clear paint in sprayable form is not 90 % solvents that evaporate like the old stuff.. If anything , it’s more difficult. You can’t be a hack painter and produce results like this with base/clear. Having no texture after wet/color sanding and polishing.
If you can lay down a show quality finish straight from the spray gun, my hat''s off to you. The rest of us mere mortals are forced to cut n buff.
@@danpickett9103 I started painting in Nov. of 73. If you ask an old fart like me that used lacquer , synthetic enamel, or acrlyic enamel.. most of the time it was lacquer that had to be buffed. , most of the lacquer jobs were small repairs, fenders or a side etc. In a production shop, rubbing is wasting time. In 82, I started my first shop and started doing " show cars and mcs." In about 76 I discovered urethane clear that used an activator. Wow ! all that shine with very little buffing , slick as glass, DOI was awesome. I still use Dupont today. but , it really comes down to what the customer expects and can afford.
@@davidzornes6863 really? Dupont paint ceased to exist after 2013. It was sold and the new name is axalta. So it's obvious you don't still use dupont.
You’re comparing production work with show quality (difference of $1,200-$25,000). Sure you can paint a car and not cut and buff, but it’s nothing compared to a paint job of this quality. It requires 4-6 coats of clear and tons of meticulous hours of cutting and polishing for that true glass finish with no trash. If you’ve been painting for 44 years you should clearly see this isn’t a typical paint job.
Super impressed. Thanks so much for making this video. I learned so much. I just sprayed a single stage paint, 3 coats. Do you think I can perform your steps on it?
Is this video from the ‘90s? I’m asking seriously.
yes
I tell you what- I repainted the hood of my daily driver, and used this video for reference in my final paint correction stages. To take the hood off of a 5 year-old daily driver and sand it to bare metal…in 2021…scares the hell out of family and neighbors. But when you have a wealth of free information on RUclips (and classic videos like this one), you feel invincible. Thanks for posting this.
As a new detailer I Neeeever believed that work could be done without leaving scratches or swirls behind. Especially on yt where everything could be hidden. This is the best video I've ever seen on paint correction.
3m perfect it white, black then blue pads leave no visible scratches or swirls.
Buffin dry with covax is much faster and flat as f…
Great tutorial! I see why they charge Thousands 💵 for a Show Room Paint Job. I’m definitely a new sub. Thanks
The results are irrefutable! I'm wondering about the amount of orange peel out of the booth. Don't you want to start with the least amount of peel possible?
Fuck the paint,,, this mans manicure got the cleanest reflection of the entire
Video.. what he spray his nails with 2x clear cloat?
The ripple he refers to is "urethane wave" that happens when spraying a high solids clear or pounding too much in each or any coat. He makes a very valid point to look low on it to ensure it is dead flat - just because it looks flat and sanded when you are above it doesn't mean it is completely flat.
Great video and great content but the banging and sanding in the background makes it almost unwatchable with headphones
That is doing a good paint job cut and buff. I was really in trouble with my paint job, so bad I started with 400 wet sanding in spots and switched to 800, 2000 then 3000 before buffing ( my first paint job though) thanks for the info. I would like this better if questions were actually answered though.
This is the professional way of doing,But I have to do it with 1500 da dry blowing paper and panel as soon as I see pigtails,and then 3000 wet with trizact.My customers just don't give me the time to do it this way.
on a better gun,should i expect less orange peel?iwata 2nd gen supernova? great old school video
I can't believe there is no rubber tip on that blow nozzle
That is true
I actually watch the whole hour 50 min str8 through and back again most detailed vid online
Thanks for the great video which you basically show every secret of chefs recipe. I wish you uploaded the video in 1080 HD though.
I will try
Hate to sound like this, But if you’re a “Real Painter” then you don’t need to cut & buff. I understand if you have trash, or a sag. But, My jobs come out so slick, I don’t need to “cut & buff…”
true
You are the best I've ever seen. Attention to detail is amazing.
Thanks for posting this video pharraway! I found it very educational even though it has created many years ago. The technics stay the same and i also found where I did mistakes on my 3rd effort painting my old car. Specifically I'm gonna use the guide coat to correct my clear coat defects! Many thanks again ☺️
Can't believe the amount of orange peel at the beginning. Should never be that much and if you protect those edges, (which you did,) you could have knocked off the peaks on 95% of the panel in less than 5 mins saving hours of work. There are drill attatchments you could have used to sand and polish the reveal edges with, again, saving hours of work. Then of course, go over the whole panel with your meticulous eye and finish to perfection. I'm just saying that you could have gotten to the finish so much quicker and achieve the same result.
Thanks for the very useful video. Now I know what it takes to cut and buff a paint job.
What am I doing wrong when I buff and then it goes back to the dull haziness?
I painted a panel and cut with the 1000 then 2000 and did a da with 3000 soft pad, then buffed with compound. But some spots hold the slick shine, other areas are still dull or go back to dull after 30 minutes.
Am I not sanding enough, which I’m scared to cut too deep, or am I not buffing long enough/fast enough? Which I’m also scared to cut through with buffer.
Or do I have to do another coat of some other compound? Or scratch remover?
thanks
This is great. But, it for show car quality. You can spray a car nearly perfect at least for a street driven car. That's the real difference. No reason to perfect paint to this level that will be getting driven.
1:46:05 should have went to a finer grit save on buffing time,,
I am only an amateur, restoring and painting cars for my own use. I try to the best of my ability to have a minimum of orange peel to none at all. . So cut and polishing is not a big chore. In a professional environment, it seems to me that is labour intensive and costly to pay wages to eliminate orange peel that should not even be there from a professional spray painter with excellent equipment and environment.
Thanks for the video PURE MAJIC !!
I lived near Pharr, TX. You guys from the RGV?
yes
Shout out to the camera man!! That was a long and meticulous video to shoot.
The only doubt I have is, when cross hatching when sanding, does that cause deeper scratches with the sanded residue?
I have seen this question before. The answer I did see was the cross hatching lessons the scratching caused by debris and making sure you change the angle of block 90 degrees. The main idea is to keep it flat as possible. This also applies to using orbital sanding pads, keep it flat as possible.
@@chuckgilbert2035 thank you bro I’ve always was confused about this
So meticulous very very nice work that is one of the most spectacular buff outs I have ever seen. Nice job
1:35:22 1:35:25 why are you getting so much orange peel?
this is how I paint millwork on high end homes. it sux. sanding with lights and dust brushes...all day long to remove any imperfections.
Damn, You are better than both Michael & Bruce!
Great video thanks for making this. I was doing so many things wrong
185 dislikes are from maaco workers
Or econo lol we have those here in Florida
@@jokerdejesus4756 true!
Thanks for the video brother...I love these old videos. I'm going to do a video using the DA to wet sand and polish.
awesome brother
@Yo Lol you can e-mail me at pharrawaypaint@gmail.com
I wonder why he still using wool I use a foam pad cuz the urethane clears are much harder Les swirl marks
I think this video is from the late 90s. 😁👍
Thank you Dan. Great advice . Keep up the great work. You my friend are a true pro. Neal
9
I have a question: my clearcoat stays dull after I fine sand (2000) and transition to stage 1 rubbing compound. It ends up with something of a hard satin finish less a gloss. What am I doing wrong? am i using the wrong clearcoat? What clear coat is that on this piece in the video?
Sanding at almost any grit (until you’re at maybe 5,000) will look hazy and dull. You need to use a rotary or DA polishing machine with a liquid polish to get the sanding to buff out.
Xtreme Solutions shows their product line with much, much shorter videos that demonstrate this process. Watch a few videos and you’ll get the gist.
So I rewatched this video in its entirety several times and realized you slipped in the secret ingredient/step almost without realizing: simple mild soap and water between each stage. Now every drum shell I’ve done since is near flawless! Thank you again so very much! I really can’t express my actual level of gratitude
There is a much better sanding block that can be bought from KKK Dynamics made by the "sandman' - guy cut and buffed a car that won the Riddler award. It's an awesome block that makes the panel dead flat
How about a DA sander with 3000 grit before buffing? I've been buffing for years and this is the best wet sand and buff vid ever. I just had 1969 AMC AMX XCODE 390 AT AIR PS PB GO PACK. Hunter green basecoat clearcoat. There is minor dust spots in the clear. No runs, thank goodness lol. The sides came out great, should I still color sand and buff the sides if there is no paint issues? Maybe DA sander with 3000 grit buff and Polish? I had hood, top of fenders, outside windows with matte white paint. It came out wonderful. I know I don't do anything with matte white but keep clean with no abrasive. Thanks for your help. Neal
I would say, it depends on the look you're going for. I have a small DA with a 3/4" sanding pad. Sometimes, I'll use it to hit the dust spots, with 1500 or finer, then buff with a wool pad. The wool pad will remove the sanding scratches. Then I'll polish the whole panel using a foam pad. If you want more of a mirror shine, sand the whole panel with a short stroke DA, 1500 and finer, then the wool, and polish with a foam pad.
Excellent! My challenge (old Porsche Speedster) is not the edges but the gullies and the curves. So, convex and concave. Especially the gullies. Also, why can't one use rotation strokes vs. cross hatch for everything (except a sharp edge), emulating a DA or RO machine?
That’s my question too.
That’s why the last sander I bought had variable speed that went LOWER than the others. I got a Bosch palm sander, corded, and even though I thought all the ones I had before were fine, this Bosch, on par price wise with its competition, was a new level of refined. No joke, within 20 minutes of using it, I was saying to it, “where have you been all my life?”. More than once. And if I remember it said it went from 8,000rpms down to 2,000rpms. On 1 the thing is turning nice and slowly yet still doing the job. Sometimes it sanded BETTER on a slow setting than fast. Preventing burn through is much easier now. Yes, I also use it as a polisher. It uses shorter strokes than the big Griot’s Garage one I have. AND at all speeds it is much less irritating to the ear, much more smooth sounding, more like a turbine than an electric motor, and at speed 1-2 it’s almost calming, even possibly zen like. I was so happy to see all imperfections go away, the whole surface a uniform dull white clear coat over black, with no shiny dark dimples, that I almost went too far! In fact I never use the thing at full speed for anything. Even when I was stripping the hood, you’d use a lower grit to cut away old paint, but I learned the hard way on another car’s hood, my hood, that right about the time you hit bare metal, that sandpaper will cut that steel or aluminum and create yet another level of mind numbing frustration in the near future. Even though the manufacturers claim their primers will hide a certain grain of sand scratches, my experience is that some how, some way, ANY scratch more than about a 600 grit will eventually show through without the proper elimination through careful crosshatch patterns of sanding, and by hand it is almost impossible to remove every scratch for every grit. Yes, the coating need girt to bite into, but it’s the uniformity of the “scratches” of each grit that hide the various tails and errant human movements which you unknowingly and inevitably leave in the finish. To me, the finish should look like a clean chalkboard when prepped for paint, and then when color sanding it should look like a nice white chalkboard. Obviously I mean the color will be dependent on what’s below, but the texture is most important, and chalkboards rely on grit for the chalk to be sheared off into the grit, ugh like the dry guide coats we use, which are incredibly fine. Dry guide coats are awesome. Those scratches you never saw will jump out at you. Get those removed, and the foundation is set for a smooth finish. Regardless, there will be orange peel in any finish unless you have the luxury of several circumstances, including just the right temp and humidity for application, a very hot and dry room for quick curing, and then a similar environment for the finish to continue curing at still controlled conditions. While paint is curing, even rain drips in the surface will seriously affect the rate at which that bit of paint cures, which in turn affects how the surface where the solvents or water evaporate at any given time. Even a tree branch making a shadow over a certain part at just the right time for the sun to cook it faster than what’s next to it contributes to irregularities. If a particular panel was all one big drop of paint and all of the carrier were to evaporate at once, then you’d most likely have a near perfectly smooth finish.
@@andrewhigdon8346
Book?
Been working at a body shop for bout two years and let me tell you it’s a constant learning process. And I have made a fair share of mistakes and cut throughs.
My shop teacher used to say "it ain't flat enough until I can pick my teeth in the reflection"
By far the best video on color sanding fresh paint to perfection that I’ve ever seen on RUclips…
I meant to add if you had used power tools.
I really enjoyed this video,and learned a lot,Im really tackling my 66 chevelle, thanks for the encouragement.
Good video I think guide coat is not necessary I don’t see the benefit on guide coat for color sanding
thank you great video keep up the good work you share and give your time to evreyone a big thank you
Thanks
Great Video! I have been painting for over 20 years and this is a very good and detailed video on the color sanding process. A lot of people don't know this...but... Color sanding and buffing is the art of any great paint job.
Thanks for taking the time to produce this video. There are so many products nowadays. I wish they had been around when I purchased my first car in the United Kingdom 50 years ago. It was an insurance write-off Ford Anglia 1200cc. Just like the one which flies around in the Harry Potter movies except mine was very light green instead of the blue which Harry drove.
Wow that sure is a lot of work , but amazing results thank you..
If that's NOT a body panel off a Bugatti Veyron...
Can you please tell me how many coats of clear were applied. Usually in production shops it’s 2. On restoration work I usually do 3.Then a flow coat after sanding the vehicle with 800 grit.
Do you wipe it down with a microfiber towel between runs with the buffer if not what’s your wait before you start buffing again?
Interesting how both these experts don't use DA polishers.I bought one and i find it useless. The rotary is all you need ...Thanks for sharing this video
any time brother
The variable speed buffer is what I learned on when I was a kid near 24 years ago and still have a passion for detailing I just love it. It relaxes me like nothing else. Just the time involved in detailing , paint correction , whatever it may be it just soothing and relaxing to me even if it is hard work at times or time consuming. Great video
If you check the copyright, this was made in 2007. There are products available now that weren't available then. This was cutting edge in '07. Now, I have a Flex orbital polisher. It works great. In the past we had to rely on finer and finer polishes to eliminate swirls as much as possible, but in the end, we had to hand polish. The orbital polishers eliminate a lot of hand work. I remember trying to polish urethane clear before foam pads. It was nearly impossible. I had an employee polishing a Rolls Royce for a month back then.
Great video I wished I had a dollar for everytime you said Cross Hatching lol
Man ! You could use that reflection to pop your pimples ! ! ! 🤮
great video , triple thumbs dude 👍👍👍
You're the best teacher! Thank you so much.....
Help me out...
I just painted tinted clear... And its dry now... I want to apply clear over it..
How shld i do it ? Apply right over the tinted clear or sand it and apply clear coat ???
Someone pls do reply.
I like how he likes it but didn’t answer it
@@marcellusbianca 😅
The 2 or 3 clear coats should be applied after the flash off time from the tinted clear, 10 to 15 mins
Awesome! Thank you for the video!
1000 grit on edges? F that sh*t...lol. would be easier and faster to sand and flow coat. Personally if I start out with less than 2000, I did a crap job spraying
True
VERY INFORMATIVE GOOD INSTRUCTION; BYE THE WAY I COULD NOT PURCHASE THE "AVALON TRI U19 GUN; I COULD NOT LOCATE IT ON EBAY AND I EMAILED THE FACTORY IN TAIWAN- THEY NEVER GOT BACK TO ME???PATRICK.P
email them here brother edy52059@gmail.com tell them that pharraway send you
Fantastic video. Followed the same procedure and results are fantastic. A real professional. Lots of secrets and experience revealed. No wonder they produce show winning cars. Many thanks to Dave. I painted many cars but never achieved the gloss like this. Truly amazing results following these methods. Great great great!!! Thank you!!!
Who ever painted that panel should be fired! The better the paint is applied the easier the wet sanding process. Also going from 1000 to 1500 isn’t smart. If the paint job came out so bad that you need 1000 grit paper you would go to 1200 then 1500. Wool pads have no use today as there are compounding grade wavy pads that don’t leave whip marks that wool pads do. Don’t do a how to color sanding and buffing video till you’ve done a hundred vehicles!
Guess you didn't bother to see when the video was made.
@@camarogs1 two years ago? How does that matter?
@@theoriginalmungaman actually it was made in the 90s. That is how it matters.
how they did it 30 years ago, add dish soap to the water a lot of guys use 1500 then 3000 on a sander
a drop of compound applied that way makes your buffer bounce.must be even on pad.otherwise excellent work
That speed he said is to slow for polishing most people go 1500 to 2000 rpm with a foam pad.
Thanks heaps, learned quite alot
You MUST use a d/a buffer with the polishing compound to remove the swirl marks caused by the Rotary buffer - the sun will show those rotary marks like crazy
This video looks old like it was made in late 90s early 2000s for sure
Note his point about 5 coats of clear if you are going to start with 1000. 1000 will cut it dead flat but it also removes a lot of clear. There is a meter that can measure how much clear is on the panel. You have heard him repeatedly talk about sanding into the base and then you have to repaint the panel. My next job will have 5 coats of clear, block with 800 and respray 2 or 3 more coats (called flow coating) as the 800 block makes it dead flat. With 3 or more coats of clear, be sure to double your flash times between coats to let the solvents flash off. I like 30 minutes flash between all coats
That's some crazy orange peel to start off with.
Andrew Bubnowski yanks can't paint off the gun, they buff the fuck out of everything
looks like gravel guard
Must be a shit painter
Show car the more heavy clear the better the more layers you can spray in one shot is the objective because your blocking the clear to a perfectly straight side cast as if to block a primer shit iv blocked clear with 600-800 to get it ridiculously straight
@@federicohernandez9363 indeed, 6 coats of high solids clear doesn't lay out like collision 2 coats thin stuff. I start cutting everything with 600x
I would use a Dremel type tool with the felt tip in small areas.