Glen has been retired to the shed. We're taking Martin Lewis's advice and heating the humans not the home. We each have an electric blanket in the living room - about 150W total.
@@JulianIlett Don’t be heating the shed, that will be expensive! Thanks for showing the wave form too - nice to see it’s PSW.
2 года назад+12
Very nice experiment! And a very impressive discharge time of 12h. In winter you can put the oil radiator on the back seat and it's always nice and warm... ;-)
Power tool, vacuum cleaner, refrigerator torture test please. That's essentially a floating/isolated 220V, not referenced to earth or anything else except itself, as the car is on rubber tyres.
Thanks for the very detailed test. Soon the wife will be persuaded to get solar panels and a battery bank to an off grid adventure, she already has V2L as a backup "generator"... 😅
A small update. I opened the CEE conneter and terminated ground in a “isolated fix”. Now I can connect it to my central box in my small summer cottage. Everything is working including ground fault protection. BUT I have no true ground. This is not good. It could not be used as everyday V2G/V2H. But maybe under emergency situations. WTSHTF
222 volts is perfectly acceptable. Voltage can vary and most network distributors class voltage between 216 and 253 as the norm. Anything either side is considered low and over voltage respectively
Outstanding - you provided all the information that I was looking for a very long time. My plan is to use this with a ecoflow delta pro. Please can you confirm that the MG ZS EV can be fully switched off once the V2L has been activated and the V2L cable can be used as required.
It can, but beware. I tested the V2L with the car locked and it was fine for a few hours but after that the 12v battery gets discharged and overnight in discharge mode but no load the 12v battery was flat. So much so that I had to call the AA to clear errors on the car before I could power it up. A 12v battery charger wasn't sufficient.
You dont need an earth on supplies like this as its an "isolated" supply meaning you'll only ever get a shock by directly touching the live and the neutral at the same time, the only reason we have earth is because our mains system neutral is tied to earth at regular intervals and back at the power stations.
To put what you say another way, there is only a PD between the Live and the Neutral from car. Same way that you can’t get a shock by touching the live from a shaver socket (unless you also put a finger in the neutral shaver socket too) I think you know more about this than me but that’s my understanding
Wish my "mobile power bank" did v2l. If I want juice out my car I'm stuck with 12V@120W. Now in my head the car shouldn't have problems up to about 7kW since that's what the AC charger is rated for, and the inverter is maybe using some of the same circuitry? The battery itself won't get overly excited about having 10A pulled out of it, a CCS charger rams far more into it than that. There's some very satisfying clunks from my car when I charge with those. The amount of power these devices can move is pretty crazy, isn't it? I sat at a service station recharging with my car taking 50kW and it didn't even turn a fan on.
Great video. Wonder if with double uk plug end you could pull 4kw. Should be fine on cars end, think limitation is due to fire hazards with uk plug type being rated at 13A which is really 10A for constant power drown...
The inverter of the car gives you 7 to 22kW AC in order to charge the car, I don't know this EV, but the minimum is 7kW AC for most EVs, 3kW output is literally nothing, you can probably go to the max 16A. So, yes, it should be cold.
What’s the longest you’ve been able to run the V2L for? I’m reading horror stories on forums where some people are saying that V2L stops working within 3 minutes if you lock the car - and if it carries on working it’ll completely drain the 12V battery. Any experience on this?
@@iMacThere4iAm Of course, but I wasn't thinking about blankets (ours is 70W). Asking about the the heater he was using. And it's not as easy as calculating kW numbers, that would tell me how long would it run continuously, which is good to know, but far from reality.
I own a saic Maxus edeliver3. I wonder if the charge controller is the same… and I can enable v2l as well… are you able to provide a photo or follow up video?
Another one of Julians nice expensive power banks, at least this one is easer to get to where you want the power. Not so sure how good it will be at getting the power bank back home afterwards. :-)
Well, it said 49 miles remaining at 20% battery (which is the minimum you can discharge it to). That gets me home from Oxford or Milton Keynes I suppose :)
If you get access to a Wallbox Quasar 2, or a dcbel R16, it would be good to see a review. Or maybe since you're in the UK (?) the Quasar 1 is already there... ?
I have to leave the car turned on to use the discharge adapter if I turn off and lock then the discharge turns off after 5 minutes. (2022 trophy LR ) but running 2KW heater for 4hours took 7miles off my range. Any ideas
If there is no connection to Earth, which in mains wiring is connected to Neutral at the panel ultimately, then you will get that earth connection issue. If you want to be safe, you can make yourself up an earth, or just be really careful with what equipment you use.
Just curious, can you rig your house heatpump to the car and run it? Im considering it, due to the energy prices, but im worried if its too much of a load?
This is the $64m question - I also have one and I would love to be able to do this. The start up load is the challenge, traditionally up to 3 times as much as the constant load, although modern scroll compressors are much less power hungry on start up than their reciprocating ancestors. Nevertheless the dedicated mains supply on mine has a 32amp MCB suggesting it's probably way beyond V2L at the moment. There may be some clever ways around this, for example using V2L to work with the mains supply in a similar way to solar panels, so the initial start up load is a combination of mains and V2L, thereafter V2L supplies the continuous load, or you could use V2L in conjunction with one of the latest generation of domestic Lithium battery banks which have clever ways of managing power to make use of the varying supply and demand situations
@@badchefi at that time i had a flatrate charging plan and could charge as much i wanted for a fixed price = heat for a fixed price and it worked and saved over 1500kwh during the winter
Hah, the under the bonnet sections seemed to be quite sparsely populated region, like shops in troubled times when they didnt have much to sell, just place those 5 items far apart.
I agree. I'm pretty sure the official MG V2L cable will have 2x 13A sockets on it. Someone's bound to plug a kettle into one socket and a toaster into the other.
Experiment Idea: do any of the mains output power banks have GFCI-type protection? In that if you put a low enough resistor between an external ground and the hot pin will it turn off the supply? By detecting that the power isn't coming back though the neutral. I would expect some of them would do that, it not all for the added safety and likely no extra components needed (all the ones you have shown seem to monitor current already) Basically simulating the case where a stray live wire that touches the metal case of the device, which then gets grounded by a person touching it
You’d be safer using an rcd for protection..I have the same scenario when using my portable 2kw suitcase generator to power my house during a power cut..just make the output a pme supply to make the rcd work
@@dasrue6983 only for one item of equipment… otherwise make it a pme supply and use an rcd..same thing I do on building sites using generators that have a floating neutral
I am installing this now, home charging is possible, all you need is an off grid capable hybrid inverter (e.g. Deye/Sunsynk) which have a secondary port for a fuel generator or other source (V2L) combine that with solar panels/house battery and use car as secondary power to top up house battery
Just been running my ZS and it ran just fine for a while then simply stopped providing power. It appears to have tripped out but I cannot see any way to reset it I tried turning off ther discharge on and then disconnecting the leads reconnecting everything but with a much smaller load I can hear the relays click in when the discharge button is selected but no output at all. Can anyone suggest what I need to do to get it working again or is it a Dealer issue? I was pulling around 600 amps running some LED lights in our Village Windmill which it has done before running all day with no issues I was running no where near the load you had your car running. :(
Well I looked in the manual and there is no mention of a reset if tripped so after a delay I tried it again and it now appears to be fine. so what happened?? I will run it again next time I am up at the windmill and see if it does the same thing again.
If you hookup the inverter output of the car, to the charger input of your car, you'll have a car that never needs charging. Waiting to see that video...
@@YourMotherSucksCocksInHell you made me look this up “The voltage used throughout Europe (including the UK) has been harmonised since January 2003 at a nominal 230v 50 Hz (formerly 240V in UK, 220V in the rest of Europe) but this does not mean there has been a real change in the supply. Instead, the new “harmonised voltage limits” in most of Europe (the former 220V nominal countries) are now: 230V -10% +6% (i.e. 207.0 V-243.8 V) In the UK (former 240V nominal) they are: 230V -6% +10% (i.e. 216.2 V - 253.0 V) “
@@grahameida7163 yes, they agreed +10% as the upper "harmonised" limit because if it had been +6% many UK supplies would be very close to, or above the upper limit. All the boxes ticked and no one had to make any expensive infrastructure changes. 😁
230 V AC is perfectly acceptable. In the UK we used to have 240, but harmonising with the EU we should have dropped to 230 already, but that would require so much work to the grid, that it's been left as it was. I suspect that our mains will remain at around 240 V now we've left the EU. All products we can buy in the UK are designed for European 220 V AC, so everything you can plug in to a socket will work. V to L is likely designed for 2.2 kW with an inductive load. Heaters being resistive loads will likely allow the MG EV inverter to provide more than the rated output.
Is it true that while using this V2L with the MG that the car has to remain in ready mode and the DRL also remain on ? If it is true would that mean that you can’t leave the car?
So what happen after you used up the power in your car ? you'll have to charge it up ! What's the purpose on this, why would you even consider wasting time on powering the heater with your car when you can use solar panels to charge a powerbank instead?
Why? That’s exactly what a 13A socket is capable of. 3000W/240V is 12.5A. We had a 3 bar electric fire plugged in and on for weeks in the house I grew up in.
@@stephencresswell4760 I'm sure your insurance company will love you when your house burns down due to your idiocy. Did you test how many amps your 3 bar fire actually took? Don't be an idiot.
This was what had me wondering, what't to stop an EV motorist taking the car empty to a charge point all day, coming back and running all the lights,TVs etc all night, then back again the next day, over and over? Obviously charge points are starting to require a fee, but seriously, back at their introduction they were free to use?
@@JulianIlett Interesting, never thought of it like that, that's not far off what filling a tank used to be. If prices keep rising, it may well be worthwhile, certainly handy to fall back on in tge event of a grid outage, which are becoming more frequent lately.
Since EV doing something useful for once, this feature will be excluded from base package and will be available only with premium monthly subscription. Coming soon! Do you think this is a joke? Just wait until manufacturers switched to EVs completely and will drain all EV users dry with multiple-tier subscriptions, .
A welcome return of Glen to the channel! Good to see you Glen. 5:14
Glen has been retired to the shed. We're taking Martin Lewis's advice and heating the humans not the home. We each have an electric blanket in the living room - about 150W total.
@@JulianIlett Don’t be heating the shed, that will be expensive! Thanks for showing the wave form too - nice to see it’s PSW.
Very nice experiment! And a very impressive discharge time of 12h. In winter you can put the oil radiator on the back seat and it's always nice and warm... ;-)
Great backyard test. Parkside+SilverCrest+PoundShop+MG.
Love it.
Really!💚
Power tool, vacuum cleaner, refrigerator torture test please. That's essentially a floating/isolated 220V, not referenced to earth or anything else except itself, as the car is on rubber tyres.
Thanks for the very detailed test.
Soon the wife will be persuaded to get solar panels and a battery bank to an off grid adventure, she already has V2L as a backup "generator"... 😅
I made my own from a secondhand 3phase 16A cabel. I connected all cabels to a 3phase CEE connector. I have 230v on all three Live, but no 400v.
A small update.
I opened the CEE conneter and terminated ground in a “isolated fix”.
Now I can connect it to my central box in my small summer cottage.
Everything is working including ground fault protection.
BUT I have no true ground. This is not good. It could not be used as everyday V2G/V2H. But maybe under emergency situations. WTSHTF
222 volts is perfectly acceptable. Voltage can vary and most network distributors class voltage between 216 and 253 as the norm. Anything either side is considered low and over voltage respectively
in sweden the acceptable levels for households are 230V+-10%
thx for youre test.
can you plug the cable in to youre house und use the energie for youre home devices like TV , Computer, so on...?
Outstanding - you provided all the information that I was looking for a very long time. My plan is to use this with a ecoflow delta pro. Please can you confirm that the MG ZS EV can be fully switched off once the V2L has been activated and the V2L cable can be used as required.
Yes, the car can be switched off and the doors locked once the V2L has been activated.
@@JulianIlett awesome
Load turns off after 5min after car turned off and car locked. 2023 trophy LR will only work continuously if car left turned on.
It can, but beware. I tested the V2L with the car locked and it was fine for a few hours but after that the 12v battery gets discharged and overnight in discharge mode but no load the 12v battery was flat. So much so that I had to call the AA to clear errors on the car before I could power it up. A 12v battery charger wasn't sufficient.
You dont need an earth on supplies like this as its an "isolated" supply meaning you'll only ever get a shock by directly touching the live and the neutral at the same time, the only reason we have earth is because our mains system neutral is tied to earth at regular intervals and back at the power stations.
To put what you say another way,
there is only a PD between the Live and the Neutral from car. Same way that you can’t get a shock by touching the live from a shaver socket (unless you also put a finger in the neutral shaver socket too)
I think you know more about this than me but that’s my understanding
They likely underrate the inverter output to account for a 2200 watt full inductive load.
Can you explain please. Full inductive load?
Nice powerbank!
Wish my "mobile power bank" did v2l. If I want juice out my car I'm stuck with 12V@120W.
Now in my head the car shouldn't have problems up to about 7kW since that's what the AC charger is rated for, and the inverter is maybe using some of the same circuitry?
The battery itself won't get overly excited about having 10A pulled out of it, a CCS charger rams far more into it than that. There's some very satisfying clunks from my car when I charge with those.
The amount of power these devices can move is pretty crazy, isn't it? I sat at a service station recharging with my car taking 50kW and it didn't even turn a fan on.
The 800V cars are crazier still. I would have loved a Kia EV6 (but I'm married).
Great upload 😍🙏
Power bank on wheels!
Great video. Wonder if with double uk plug end you could pull 4kw. Should be fine on cars end, think limitation is due to fire hazards with uk plug type being rated at 13A which is really 10A for constant power drown...
So you can definitely power the caravan from the car..
And charge any EV with a granny charger. Excellent.
Gotta love pound shop fuses
Goodness your brave 3kw discharge , wow . You could run your house, who needs a power wall
I suppose that the inverter it's short circuit protected? isnt?
The inverter of the car gives you 7 to 22kW AC in order to charge the car, I don't know this EV, but the minimum is 7kW AC for most EVs, 3kW output is literally nothing, you can probably go to the max 16A. So, yes, it should be cold.
Can I send you an enphase micro inverter to test direct solar charging? My guess is the car will shut down but how cool if it just works
What’s the longest you’ve been able to run the V2L for? I’m reading horror stories on forums where some people are saying that V2L stops working within 3 minutes if you lock the car - and if it carries on working it’ll completely drain the 12V battery.
Any experience on this?
So the question now is for how long can you heat up a tent during a colder weather camping trip?
An electric blanket is usually rated less than 100W so you could actually keep warm at night for weeks on an EV battery.
@@iMacThere4iAm Of course, but I wasn't thinking about blankets (ours is 70W). Asking about the the heater he was using. And it's not as easy as calculating kW numbers, that would tell me how long would it run continuously, which is good to know, but far from reality.
I own a saic Maxus edeliver3. I wonder if the charge controller is the same… and I can enable v2l as well… are you able to provide a photo or follow up video?
very helpful , thanks
Another one of Julians nice expensive power banks, at least this one is easer to get to where you want the power. Not so sure how good it will be at getting the power bank back home afterwards. :-)
Well, it said 49 miles remaining at 20% battery (which is the minimum you can discharge it to).
That gets me home from Oxford or Milton Keynes I suppose :)
This is epic
Thanks for the video, just wondering where did u get the plug that reads the Watts from the heaters
That's impressive .the inverter capabilities .I bet you'd love to open that silver box up Mr, I would be . 🤭
Thanks for showing us . Much appreciated .
If you get access to a Wallbox Quasar 2, or a dcbel R16, it would be good to see a review. Or maybe since you're in the UK (?) the Quasar 1 is already there... ?
Thank you for your test,
Why you have buy a new cable? Your home made cable don’t work correctly?
My DIY cable came from an EVSE. I want to put it back on that EVSE.
Thank you for you answer.
I understand.
I have to leave the car turned on to use the discharge adapter if I turn off and lock then the discharge turns off after 5 minutes.
(2022 trophy LR ) but running 2KW heater for 4hours took 7miles off my range. Any ideas
If there is no connection to Earth, which in mains wiring is connected to Neutral at the panel ultimately, then you will get that earth connection issue. If you want to be safe, you can make yourself up an earth, or just be really careful with what equipment you use.
On my Ev6 my interior v2l outlet only works when I have the V2L adapter plugged into the charging socket and switched on. Any thoughts
Just curious, can you rig your house heatpump to the car and run it? Im considering it, due to the energy prices, but im worried if its too much of a load?
This is the $64m question - I also have one and I would love to be able to do this. The start up load is the challenge, traditionally up to 3 times as much as the constant load, although modern scroll compressors are much less power hungry on start up than their reciprocating ancestors. Nevertheless the dedicated mains supply on mine has a 32amp MCB suggesting it's probably way beyond V2L at the moment. There may be some clever ways around this, for example using V2L to work with the mains supply in a similar way to solar panels, so the initial start up load is a combination of mains and V2L, thereafter V2L supplies the continuous load, or you could use V2L in conjunction with one of the latest generation of domestic Lithium battery banks which have clever ways of managing power to make use of the varying supply and demand situations
Look up the aircon spec sheet/manual. Max power probably at defrost mode when in heating mode.
The energy prices? Really? How will you charge the car for free?
@@badchefi at that time i had a flatrate charging plan and could charge as much i wanted for a fixed price = heat for a fixed price and it worked and saved over 1500kwh during the winter
Hah, the under the bonnet sections seemed to be quite sparsely populated region, like shops in troubled times when they didnt have much to sell, just place those 5 items far apart.
You shouldn’t be able to damage the inverter on the car. The average consumer would have no idea on how big a load is connected.
I agree. I'm pretty sure the official MG V2L cable will have 2x 13A sockets on it. Someone's bound to plug a kettle into one socket and a toaster into the other.
Experiment Idea: do any of the mains output power banks have GFCI-type protection? In that if you put a low enough resistor between an external ground and the hot pin will it turn off the supply? By detecting that the power isn't coming back though the neutral. I would expect some of them would do that, it not all for the added safety and likely no extra components needed (all the ones you have shown seem to monitor current already)
Basically simulating the case where a stray live wire that touches the metal case of the device, which then gets grounded by a person touching it
Is your car the first edition of the ZS EV 2019- 2020
No, I've got the 2nd version. I don't believe the 1st gen has V2L.
@@JulianIlett Thank you - we have a Jan 2020 plate - was hoping to use it with V2L
Some curious chinglish @2:26 :)
That was hilarious indeed
You’d be safer using an rcd for protection..I have the same scenario when using my portable 2kw suitcase generator to power my house during a power cut..just make the output a pme supply to make the rcd work
Or use only one consumer
But any way with rcd
I don't think an RCD would do anything. The socket tester was showing no path from live to earth, so it seems like the output is completely isolated
Yes it is isolated for one device but,Other devices can make that path (potentially).
@@dasrue6983 only for one item of equipment… otherwise make it a pme supply and use an rcd..same thing I do on building sites using generators that have a floating neutral
i think the Australian model is limited to 2.5kw
If the test had gone wrong, you’d have a job fitting all the details into that tiny box on the insurance form ;)
Where can I get the schematic of your EV charger you made?
Is vehicle to home also possible with the car? Would be awesome!
I am installing this now, home charging is possible, all you need is an off grid capable hybrid inverter (e.g. Deye/Sunsynk) which have a secondary port for a fuel generator or other source (V2L) combine that with solar panels/house battery and use car as secondary power to top up house battery
Just been running my ZS and it ran just fine for a while then simply stopped providing power. It appears to have tripped out but I cannot see any way to reset it I tried turning off ther discharge on and then disconnecting the leads reconnecting everything but with a much smaller load I can hear the relays click in when the discharge button is selected but no output at all. Can anyone suggest what I need to do to get it working again or is it a Dealer issue? I was pulling around 600 amps running some LED lights in our Village Windmill which it has done before running all day with no issues I was running no where near the load you had your car running. :(
Well I looked in the manual and there is no mention of a reset if tripped so after a delay I tried it again and it now appears to be fine. so what happened?? I will run it again next time I am up at the windmill and see if it does the same thing again.
If you hookup the inverter output of the car, to the charger input of your car, you'll have a car that never needs charging.
Waiting to see that video...
I believe 220v is the official EU harmonised voltage, but in the uk we promised to drop it to 230v… I have not seen this in the real world however
Wrong.
@@YourMotherSucksCocksInHell you made me look this up “The voltage used throughout Europe (including the UK) has been harmonised since January 2003 at a nominal 230v 50 Hz (formerly 240V in UK, 220V in the rest of Europe) but this does not mean there has been a real change in the supply.
Instead, the new “harmonised voltage limits” in most of Europe (the former 220V nominal countries) are now:
230V -10% +6% (i.e. 207.0 V-243.8 V)
In the UK (former 240V nominal) they are:
230V -6% +10% (i.e. 216.2 V - 253.0 V)
“
@@grahameida7163 I knew that. Practically nothing changed.
@@grahameida7163 yes, they agreed +10% as the upper "harmonised" limit because if it had been +6% many UK supplies would be very close to, or above the upper limit.
All the boxes ticked and no one had to make any expensive infrastructure changes. 😁
Thought of this too... So by supplying 222V, the car's supply is only 3% wrong compared to the standard
Julian Ilett, risking destroying his car so we don't have to!
I wonder if this would work with a Nissan Leaf
Ups there goes the car charge controller
3:24 China car gives you China voltage
230 V AC is perfectly acceptable. In the UK we used to have 240, but harmonising with the EU we should have dropped to 230 already, but that would require so much work to the grid, that it's been left as it was. I suspect that our mains will remain at around 240 V now we've left the EU.
All products we can buy in the UK are designed for European 220 V AC, so everything you can plug in to a socket will work.
V to L is likely designed for 2.2 kW with an inductive load. Heaters being resistive loads will likely allow the MG EV inverter to provide more than the rated output.
They have not changed existing voltage levels, they just widened the spec.
Julian, your house walls need the cement repointing
My house needs a lot more work than that!
Can you drive while v2l is enabled?
No
Think it’s 16A, 3600watt
Is it true that while using this V2L with the MG that the car has to remain in ready mode and the DRL also remain on ? If it is true would that mean that you can’t leave the car?
I also have this problem thus rendering it useless if you can’t lock the car.
So what happen after you used up the power in your car ? you'll have to charge it up !
What's the purpose on this, why would you even consider wasting time on powering the heater with your car when you can use solar panels to charge a powerbank instead?
You should of popped the kettle on an made a brew
I’m not sure that the 13A socket and plug will survive running 12 hours at 3kW. :)
Why? That’s exactly what a 13A socket is capable of. 3000W/240V is 12.5A. We had a 3 bar electric fire plugged in and on for weeks in the house I grew up in.
@@stephencresswell4760 I'm sure your insurance company will love you when your house burns down due to your idiocy.
Did you test how many amps your 3 bar fire actually took?
Don't be an idiot.
I got myself an MG ZS thinking it had a reliable V2L. Turns out it’s only a 5 minutes gimmick.
Nice one, no f%&*king about !....cheers.
It was a bit squeaky though.
Cheese!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@@fredflintstone1 Squeak !!!!!
This was what had me wondering, what't to stop an EV motorist taking the car empty to a charge point all day, coming back and running all the lights,TVs etc all night, then back again the next day, over and over?
Obviously charge points are starting to require a fee, but seriously, back at their introduction they were free to use?
The car battery only holds about £20 worth of electricity. You'd have to charge and discharge it 5 times a day to make it worthwhile.
@@JulianIlett Interesting, never thought of it like that, that's not far off what filling a tank used to be. If prices keep rising, it may well be worthwhile, certainly handy to fall back on in tge event of a grid outage, which are becoming more frequent lately.
"It's can not operate when the vehicle is unactive." .... dafuq? lol
Chinglish!
Then find place to charge for free and your winning
so it provides 3k at european voltages nice🙂 and a nice bit of global warming Lol!
Since EV doing something useful for once, this feature will be excluded from base package and will be available only with premium monthly subscription. Coming soon! Do you think this is a joke? Just wait until manufacturers switched to EVs completely and will drain all EV users dry with multiple-tier subscriptions, .
Most don't want to add this as this drains the battery without adding miles to the car.
@@YourMotherSucksCocksInHell This is not a car, this is EV, unrepearable smartphone on the wheels.
Aargh why don't Tesla enable this; it's embarrassing! Nice, surprising video. ThnX 👍🏻