As woodworkers we CAN make and customize nearly everything. Because of that, sometimes we think we MUST make and customize nearly everything. That's what makes us authentic, or something similar. Sometimes I feel trapped by this emotion and delay woodworking for others so I can make my space perfect. Therefore, if it fits your budget and your needs, there's nothing wrong with buying a workbench made by someone else. Or using a less perfect workbench. We all have to remember our time as a human beings on this planet is limited, and we should use it to do what means most to us. Making a workbench once in a while is a good project. Just make sure you are doing that because it's what you enjoy doing or because it otherwise makes sense, not because you feel required to do it to feel like a real woodworker.
Concerning jointing, the first thing to do is get a handle on any cupping, wind, crooking, or bowing. Longer boards are especially troublesome. You can use a long line like a chalk line pulled taught to estimate the difference between what you have and what will be left after it's flat. If you have a nominal 1X8 and the distance between the cord stretched taught and part of the surface farthest below the cord is 3/4 of an inch, "flattening" that board will leave nothing. I buy material over thickness, cut it to approximate lengths, and then joint it (usually with a hand plane these days, because I have tinnitis). Flattening shorter pieces conserves wood.
Concerning the jointer, I recently straightened out a bowed (technically crooked) 2x4 on my 6" long bed jointer. There is some technique to it. First, it helps to draw a straight reference line from one end to the other, touching the corners and showing the curve in the middle. That will help guide you. Second, you want to joint it so that it's curved up and the bow/crook is down against the bed. This will result in the jointer cutting away material starting in the middle and gradually working out towards the ends with each pass. This is where some technique/art/skill comes in - you want to hold the board such that it is in fact only touching the bed near the middle. You don't want to push down on one end and start carving away at the leading end first. What will happen there is with each pass, you will carve away material from the start of the board, and the end of the board will receive the fewest passes. Best case scenario this creates a really narrow end and a wider end. If you deliberately shape it so that you're starting in the middle and working your way out equidistant towards the ends, you get a more uniform width or thickness by the time you're done. Use very little pressure else you'll just carve another curve into the already bowed piece and you won't actually straighten it. To prevent the piece from rocking on bed, you can use the fence to stabilize it is crooked by pushing against the fence and keeping it level. If it's bowed, you will want to balance it with push paddles on either side of center. This takes a bit more finesse to get it right, but it's still doable. Once you've gotten 2-3 good passes in the middle such that you've created a 12-16" long flat spot in the middle, it becomes easier to do the rest as you can just reference that flat face against the bed as you pass it through. The more parallel that face is with the reference line you drew, the more uniform the width of the board will be by the time you're done. You can get a feel for how you're doing based on the sound. If you hear cutting too early in the cut, you know your board is tilted down too far at the start of the cut. If you hear cutting too late, you know it's tilted too far back. Depending on the severity of the bow, on the first pass you should start to hear or feel cutting about 2" from the center of the board, and the cutting should stop at the same distance away from center. Then on the next pass that distance will increase, and so on. But I agree with Marc that the best thing to do, if you can, is to straighten one edge using a saw guide and hand saw, or a straight guide board on the table saw with the work piece clamped or taped to it. A jointer can do it, but needs some finesse.
Hi I have a SCM 410 w , Classic, I have extended in feed outfit table +2 m on other end, And I have built supports underneath so I can adjust and get the heights of the table correct, I’ve done this because I have very large pieces of wood. I used to make specialist windows and doors oversize., it sounds like your tables are not set up correctly, Or more to the point, the blades are not set in the block correctly, the height of each blade should be exactly the same and your machine normally comes with a setting jig, And obviously, your blades must be very sharp if you’ve got double blades, you will not cut your wood properly, then when your blades are set correctly, you need to set your feed table to 0 and this will be the first stage of checking to make sure your table is parallel to your blades and block, I must note all this procedure must be done with the power turned off and disconnected, to check whether parallel to your table use a very good straight edge put it on the table so it is hanging over the planter block and slowly rotate the block and as it goes round there should be an equal gap under your straight edge. something I used to do, many years ago was put a piece of tape on the outfit table then rock the blade and put mark on the tape before you move the block and then mark the tape again when you have rocked the block over with the blade in it so it actually lifts the straight edge, something else that you need to check is making sure your planer blades have been sharpened correctly as this will cause problems when your plan is running as well and calls very big problems, The blades must be sharpened and honed by a specialist, Your outfit table must be set at the exactly the same height as the knives are on your block, if there was a difference your table adjustment needs ordering it might need even rotating slightly to get it so it is parallel to your knives, this is done with your blades out at 1st to make sure your block is parallel to your bed, I hope this can be some used to you, I’m in my 70s retired specialist Joyner Cabinet maker carpenter,
Every time someone refers to jointer tables as being "coplanar" my ears bleed a little - I think what they really mean is parallel. A jointer will only have the infeed and outfeed tables coplanar when they are in the same plane (at zero depth of cut). A properly aligned jointer, during use, will always have parallel tables and never coplanar. Sorry :)
it’s true, great point! the apex of the cutting head, which is a line, should exist on the plane of the outfeed table. and the infeed table should be just below that, perfectly parallel, and the depth of cut adjustment moves it through higher and lower planes.
The Lamello Clamex knockdown hardware is a little better than the domino, at least for sheet material, but then again you need to have the Clamex in addition to the Domino. Peter Millard has a good video on this.
@4:10 there is something to be said with a board that has a cup or twist in it to technique...trying to take the twist out evenly without making the low spot too thin
Could you incorporate the threaded insert and bolt through a mortise and tenon in a video? Either a project or just a demonstration. I'm trying to visualize where the threaded insert would go best.
When Striperseeker says his boards rock, is he feeding the convex side of the board? I don't think you can ever get a good face or edge using the convex side. With the concave side you always have at least 2 points in contact with the bed, where with the convex it's only one point of contact.
agreed. i’m assuming with an 8 ft board, he doesn’t even have an 8 ft very flat table to check the rocking on both sides (though the edge should be easy to check for convex or concave). the there is sometimes a board where there is a rock on both sides due to a twist, but the idea is to choose the side that you can hold most still and stable with your push sticks and pads. we have some pretty big jointers in the shop at my school, and i still won’t joint an 8 ft board if i don’t HAVE to. i always rough cut close to final length, and sometimes to close to final width, before jointing, so that I can remove as little material from the thickness as possible. if i had some project (like a bed frame or large bookshelf? a large dining table?) where 8 ft was the final length, i’d be selecting boards already as flat and straight as possible, intentionally.
Why do you have Spock and Oriana on the wall behind you. I WATCHED start Track in the 1960s when it first aired the show started off in Black and White.
If the beds on a jointer aren’t parallel, then you’re always going to get a curve in the board. I was always taught that the pressure is always on the out feed table as it’s set to the cutter. Obviously not when starting, but usually good to start about a third of your length.
Depending on the orientation of the curve in the board you’re jointing, if you’re pushing down too hard, isn’t there a risk of pressing at least some of the curve out as it goes over the cutter and taking material off in the places where it doesn’t need to be removed?
My experience in dealing with 1X material is to fully dry before ripping. 99.9% of the time, ripping a wet board, especially that thin, will allow it warp like crazy.
There’s a jointing technique you hear quite often where you apply pressure to the outfeed as soon as possible. So good to hear you say that’s not necessarily the case, personally I’ve had the same result regardless of where I put pressure (assuming the board is close to flat)
I guess people are very sensitive to changes in your shop and need to know exactly everything going on. Huh. Hey Marc, your glasses look to be 3 degrees off level. Did you recently run into a wall? Tell us everything! lol
Hi Mark, I was wondering if there was some courses in the guild that would be lean more towards a newer woodworker? I have knowledge on how to use the machines and equipment but not necessarily built much, thanks?
The Shaker Table is a great one to start but honestly pick something you want to build. Each one of the projects is designed to take you step by step through the project.
Hey Marc, I love your stuff! Re: the Festool knock down hardware, I suspect you could cut the mortices with your router and a metric bit, if you don't have access to a Domino. I've got a 500, but I'm looking at building a big kitchen table using the 700 knockdown hardware, and cutting the bigger mortices with my router.
I saw your video from a few years ago about getting rid of the Festool Kapex in favor of the Bosch Glide. Can you talk about your experience with those saws and why you went back to the Kapex in your shop?
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If you push down too hard on a cupped board you may press the cup out of it as its jointed thus keeping the cup in it as pressure is released.
As woodworkers we CAN make and customize nearly everything. Because of that, sometimes we think we MUST make and customize nearly everything. That's what makes us authentic, or something similar. Sometimes I feel trapped by this emotion and delay woodworking for others so I can make my space perfect.
Therefore, if it fits your budget and your needs, there's nothing wrong with buying a workbench made by someone else. Or using a less perfect workbench.
We all have to remember our time as a human beings on this planet is limited, and we should use it to do what means most to us.
Making a workbench once in a while is a good project. Just make sure you are doing that because it's what you enjoy doing or because it otherwise makes sense, not because you feel required to do it to feel like a real woodworker.
"... our time as a human beings on this planet is limited.."
.
I think you signed up for the wrong program...🤣🤣🤣
Concerning jointing, the first thing to do is get a handle on any cupping, wind, crooking, or bowing. Longer boards are especially troublesome. You can use a long line like a chalk line pulled taught to estimate the difference between what you have and what will be left after it's flat. If you have a nominal 1X8 and the distance between the cord stretched taught and part of the surface farthest below the cord is 3/4 of an inch, "flattening" that board will leave nothing. I buy material over thickness, cut it to approximate lengths, and then joint it (usually with a hand plane these days, because I have tinnitis). Flattening shorter pieces conserves wood.
Really interesting question choices today.
Appreciate all you do
Something I learned from the podcast…cut the board to approx length before jointing.
Concerning the jointer, I recently straightened out a bowed (technically crooked) 2x4 on my 6" long bed jointer. There is some technique to it. First, it helps to draw a straight reference line from one end to the other, touching the corners and showing the curve in the middle. That will help guide you.
Second, you want to joint it so that it's curved up and the bow/crook is down against the bed. This will result in the jointer cutting away material starting in the middle and gradually working out towards the ends with each pass. This is where some technique/art/skill comes in - you want to hold the board such that it is in fact only touching the bed near the middle. You don't want to push down on one end and start carving away at the leading end first. What will happen there is with each pass, you will carve away material from the start of the board, and the end of the board will receive the fewest passes. Best case scenario this creates a really narrow end and a wider end.
If you deliberately shape it so that you're starting in the middle and working your way out equidistant towards the ends, you get a more uniform width or thickness by the time you're done. Use very little pressure else you'll just carve another curve into the already bowed piece and you won't actually straighten it.
To prevent the piece from rocking on bed, you can use the fence to stabilize it is crooked by pushing against the fence and keeping it level. If it's bowed, you will want to balance it with push paddles on either side of center. This takes a bit more finesse to get it right, but it's still doable.
Once you've gotten 2-3 good passes in the middle such that you've created a 12-16" long flat spot in the middle, it becomes easier to do the rest as you can just reference that flat face against the bed as you pass it through. The more parallel that face is with the reference line you drew, the more uniform the width of the board will be by the time you're done.
You can get a feel for how you're doing based on the sound. If you hear cutting too early in the cut, you know your board is tilted down too far at the start of the cut. If you hear cutting too late, you know it's tilted too far back. Depending on the severity of the bow, on the first pass you should start to hear or feel cutting about 2" from the center of the board, and the cutting should stop at the same distance away from center. Then on the next pass that distance will increase, and so on.
But I agree with Marc that the best thing to do, if you can, is to straighten one edge using a saw guide and hand saw, or a straight guide board on the table saw with the work piece clamped or taped to it. A jointer can do it, but needs some finesse.
Hi I have a SCM 410 w , Classic, I have extended in feed outfit table +2 m on other end, And I have built supports underneath so I can adjust and get the heights of the table correct, I’ve done this because I have very large pieces of wood. I used to make specialist windows and doors oversize., it sounds like your tables are not set up correctly, Or more to the point, the blades are not set in the block correctly, the height of each blade should be exactly the same and your machine normally comes with a setting jig, And obviously, your blades must be very sharp if you’ve got double blades, you will not cut your wood properly, then when your blades are set correctly, you need to set your feed table to 0 and this will be the first stage of checking to make sure your table is parallel to your blades and block, I must note all this procedure must be done with the power turned off and disconnected, to check whether parallel to your table use a very good straight edge put it on the table so it is hanging over the planter block and slowly rotate the block and as it goes round there should be an equal gap under your straight edge. something I used to do, many years ago was put a piece of tape on the outfit table then rock the blade and put mark on the tape before you move the block and then mark the tape again when you have rocked the block over with the blade in it so it actually lifts the straight edge, something else that you need to check is making sure your planer blades have been sharpened correctly as this will cause problems when your plan is running as well and calls very big problems, The blades must be sharpened and honed by a specialist,
Your outfit table must be set at the exactly the same height as the knives are on your block, if there was a difference your table adjustment needs ordering it might need even rotating slightly to get it so it is parallel to your knives, this is done with your blades out at 1st to make sure your block is parallel to your bed, I hope this can be some used to you, I’m in my 70s retired specialist Joyner Cabinet maker carpenter,
Enjoy these a bunch! Please keep them coming.
Thanks a bunch for all the tips, Marc! 😊
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Good show! I appreciate you sharing your knowledge. Thanks!
Marc, the bench is gorgeous. Maybe a better question to ask in a year or so, but how do you find cherry to use as a workbench material?
Not gonna lie. I was about to click away to listen to later. But then I saw the b roll visuals and it really helped my dumb brain be entertained
Every time someone refers to jointer tables as being "coplanar" my ears bleed a little - I think what they really mean is parallel. A jointer will only have the infeed and outfeed tables coplanar when they are in the same plane (at zero depth of cut). A properly aligned jointer, during use, will always have parallel tables and never coplanar. Sorry :)
it’s true, great point! the apex of the cutting head, which is a line, should exist on the plane of the outfeed table. and the infeed table should be just below that, perfectly parallel, and the depth of cut adjustment moves it through higher and lower planes.
Thank You Marc!
Friday live ? Please…..remember the good old days?
This! 😁
The Lamello Clamex knockdown hardware is a little better than the domino, at least for sheet material, but then again you need to have the Clamex in addition to the Domino. Peter Millard has a good video on this.
@4:10 there is something to be said with a board that has a cup or twist in it to technique...trying to take the twist out evenly without making the low spot too thin
Very cool great video I’ll definitely look out for them Thanks for sharing
Could you incorporate the threaded insert and bolt through a mortise and tenon in a video? Either a project or just a demonstration. I'm trying to visualize where the threaded insert would go best.
Huh, my pressure is usually on the outfeed side after initial feed because its closer to flat and pulling the piece through.
One tip for self centering bits is to not buy cheap ones, spend the extra on a known brand.
Don't forget about wedges for knock down furniture.
Did anyone else notice him checking out his wife after she brought him coffee.. now that there is love lol
When Striperseeker says his boards rock, is he feeding the convex side of the board? I don't think you can ever get a good face or edge using the convex side. With the concave side you always have at least 2 points in contact with the bed, where with the convex it's only one point of contact.
Yeah...wish there was more clarity there. In my mind I pictured a board with a real twist in it, where maybe diagonal corners had low or high spots.
agreed. i’m assuming with an 8 ft board, he doesn’t even have an 8 ft very flat table to check the rocking on both sides (though the edge should be easy to check for convex or concave).
the there is sometimes a board where there is a rock on both sides due to a twist, but the idea is to choose the side that you can hold most still and stable with your push sticks and pads.
we have some pretty big jointers in the shop at my school, and i still won’t joint an 8 ft board if i don’t HAVE to. i always rough cut close to final length, and sometimes to close to final width, before jointing, so that I can remove as little material from the thickness as possible. if i had some project (like a bed frame or large bookshelf? a large dining table?) where 8 ft was the final length, i’d be selecting boards already as flat and straight as possible, intentionally.
👍👍👍👍👍
Why do you have Spock and Oriana on the wall behind you.
I WATCHED start Track in the 1960s when it first aired the show started off in Black and White.
gregkrivac.com/search?q=star+trek&options%5Bprefix%5D=last
Have you considered using "tee-dub-dub"? I'm just gonna leave that right there...yeah.
If the beds on a jointer aren’t parallel, then you’re always going to get a curve in the board. I was always taught that the pressure is always on the out feed table as it’s set to the cutter. Obviously not when starting, but usually good to start about a third of your length.
Depending on the orientation of the curve in the board you’re jointing, if you’re pushing down too hard, isn’t there a risk of pressing at least some of the curve out as it goes over the cutter and taking material off in the places where it doesn’t need to be removed?
So glad to see Caleb doing more guild projects. Would love to see one on his lounge chairs with webbing/danish corn seats.
What happened to Jay?
He transcended to a higher plane of existence…..he quit.
@@woodwhisperer lol
@@woodwhisperer lol
@woodwhisperer
HAPPY BIRTHDAY MARC!!
I hope all your wishes come true!!
Warm regards,
Rafael.
My experience in dealing with 1X material is to fully dry before ripping. 99.9% of the time, ripping a wet board, especially that thin, will allow it warp like crazy.
nice show. I dig it
Cool cool cool. 🥓
There’s a jointing technique you hear quite often where you apply pressure to the outfeed as soon as possible. So good to hear you say that’s not necessarily the case, personally I’ve had the same result regardless of where I put pressure (assuming the board is close to flat)
I guess people are very sensitive to changes in your shop and need to know exactly everything going on. Huh. Hey Marc, your glasses look to be 3 degrees off level. Did you recently run into a wall? Tell us everything! lol
How often do you use your drill press and what do you use it for most often
How would you feel about donating a festool domino to this newish woodworker.😂
A Trekkie - awesome!
Hi Mark, I was wondering if there was some courses in the guild that would be lean more towards a newer woodworker? I have knowledge on how to use the machines and equipment but not necessarily built much, thanks?
The Shaker Table is a great one to start but honestly pick something you want to build. Each one of the projects is designed to take you step by step through the project.
Hey Marc, I love your stuff! Re: the Festool knock down hardware, I suspect you could cut the mortices with your router and a metric bit, if you don't have access to a Domino.
I've got a 500, but I'm looking at building a big kitchen table using the 700 knockdown hardware, and cutting the bigger mortices with my router.
I saw your video from a few years ago about getting rid of the Festool Kapex in favor of the Bosch Glide. Can you talk about your experience with those saws and why you went back to the Kapex in your shop?
When you ordered the workbench did you get the undertop drawers too or did you build those? They look like the ones off the last Roubo.
This was awesome. Thank you. Looking forward to more of these little tips videos.
Great content, as always.
I thought the Festool knockdown stuff required the Domino XL?
There's a different version for the Domino 500 too. The XL version is better though.
@@johnfstockland Thank you :)