In Philly I made 85k my first year out of grad school, last year, working at a group practice with a 45/55 split, with me getting the low end. I left that practice to open my own this January and I’m on track to make 200k this year. Granted, I see a lot of clients but I’m loving it. We don’t have a lpcc here, just lpc after you get licensed, which I’m just Waiting on the paperwork for. I never expected the financial freedom that I have now
Damn brother, as a black man graduating with my MSW is august, reading your comment really made me feel optimistic about what’s to come. I’ve been worried like did I choose the wrong field? Am I gonna be poor? Seeing someone else that looks like me killing it in the field gives me hope that everything will be ok, thanks!
@@sanford360I’m still pre licensed…I am waiting on the board to do what they do. So I made the 89k, last year and I’m going to pull more than double that this year, so you can still do what you love and make a good living doing it.
I have a 8-4:30 job in CA and as an LCSW I make over 107k per year with full benefits. In addition, I do private practice on the side and only see about 6-8 clients per week for an additional 35k per year. Great video!
Central CA ASW: 2021- New grad: $62k PACE program 2022- $67k county Behavioral health 2023- 85k county + side gig (home health) 2024- 95k county + side gig (home health) 2025-hopefully licensed and earning close to 6 figures 🤞🏽
I'm in the Central Valley too! I just got my ASW, and agencies have been clamoring to hire me. A bunch of non-profits just increased their salaries and are giving huge sign-on bonuses. I'm kind of glad I waited but it makes me sad to see how big of a need for mental health is here and agencies are desperate.
I know and even sadder that big companies like Better Help are trying to replace quality therapy with "fast therapy" and paying their employees terribly!
@@our.secret1130In Ohio I would say anywhere from 80-120 is average...yes you have to ask around to figure out what the rates are and it varies a lot per state.
@@allyssapowers thank you so much for responding:) I’m considering getting licensed in multiple states in the future if I practice remotely. Can I ask one more thing? Is being a therapist very sad or emotionally depressing like, do you feel it impacts your overall life satisfaction and spiritual balance? This is my biggest worry about pursuing this career
@@our.secret1130 it's not the same as being a therapist but volunteering with a crisis line (like Crisis Text Line) is a good way to test if you enjoy working with people in crisis.
Thanks for the informative video. I’m pondering switching from a high-paying career to becoming a therapist, and I live in a very high-cost city. So potential salary info is super helpful.
Awesome video! You nailed it! I agree with everything you said. I'm a therapist in NM. The hardest part of the financial aspect for me being in private practice is dealing with self employment taxes. I recommend finding a great accountant who can keep you in check so you can focus on what you are best at. I also have an amazing biller who does my credentialing and billing and that also makes a huge difference for me so I don't have to deal with insurance. How to find a good biller and what to expect for paying them, or hiring help vs doing billing yourself would be great video topics for those starting out.
I love that idea, I have worked with a biller for years and I am actually thinking about switching to Simple Practices billing system now that I have such a small caseload.
Thank you Jill for your insight. I’m about to apply for grad school in Jan and wondering where you got your masters? also can you just open your own practice after you get licensed with a masters?
@@allyssapowers I've heard a lot about about Simple Practice but I don't know much about it. It seems like a lot of people use it! I hope that works out well for you!
@@kaseychristie7690 Oh awesome! Yes, you can open your own practice. As long as you are independently licensed, you can bill under your own name. Before that, you would need to work under a supervisor, at least when I was starting out that's how it was. I was nervous to take the leap but I'm so glad I did!! I'd find some friends in a similar boat if possible and try to be there for each other. It's so helpful to have people you can call and vice versa when you're getting up and running but have a question. There are also private practice coaches and consultants who I never thought of at the time but who can also help a lot.
So helpful! I’m a grad student in counseling. One more year to go, out of 3. Really need this perspective. Not getting this vital info in the program. Will tune in for more! Thank you!
Check indeed and see what companies are offering new graduates in your area. Not indeed’s average, but what each job ad mentions as pay. Things have changed dramatically the last couple of years and new counselors are struggling to obtain reasonable pay. Private pay used to be common but most can’t afford it now and insurance companies are hit and miss with pay.
True, LCSWs with the state or hospital make good money. I know a social worker at 105k with the school district. Of course, this is anecdotal and sadly many states aren't compensating clinicians enough! My state, New Mexico, has poured a ton of money into the mental health profession in all the different agencies and fields (schools, community mental health, CPS, etc.).
@@molly2frodo222 at the hospital, the title is just Clinical Social Worker. Typically LCSWs make the most. If you're interested in a school position that usually requires a social work degree, you might want to look into the role of Behavior Intervention/Support Specialists. Starting salary in my state (New Mexico) is 74k to 77k. This is good pay in this state, the COL is much lower than big cities. Social workers and mental health counselors also make decent money working with the state, such as CPS, typically begins at around 65k and upwards of 110k. Obviously salary can vary a lot but it's worth looking into different state agencies, hospitals, schools, etc..
Texas is rough, especially directly out of school. Associates are being offered $20 an hour, not including the cost of supervision which is around $2400-4800 per year. Caseloads are about 30-35 clients. You can’t upgrade until 3k hours met and 18 months minimum. Lots of counselors burning out before full licensure. Full licensure pay isn’t great either. Insurance companies pay lowest in the nation and with our crazy cost of living increases most people can’t afford private pay. I wish I’d known this was the situation beforehand. I think the only people making money are those who’ve been in practice for a long time or those who own these major companies paying the low wages.
$20 an hour?! They must be joking. I am trying to decide whether to accept this grad school interview, I am in Texas. $20?! I feel like I can make more than that on my bachelor! That's wild 😭
The other thing to add is you are not just tied to working in TX. You can do online work etc. You could teach in higher ed. based on your degree. I think it’s important to use all of what your degree gives you.
Thank you for being transparent ♡ I'm currently a student and I'm trying to make a plan. I have a couple questions ♡ What schooling do you have, what kind of therapist are you? How do you start your own practice? I was thinking about working for myself - but virtually, what are your thoughts?
Hi! That is a loaded question, I will do my best! I am an LPC, I totally think you could own a remote practice (i do!), there is a ton that goes into starting a private practice...that could be a whole video series within itself on my channel. I know Private Practice Skills has some great videos on this!
@@starfishbatman I’m a LCSW and am in the military as a commissioned officer. The pay is more because of time in service and varies depending on where you are stationed as well because of an untaxed housing allowance
Thank you so much for this video. There needs to be more transparency and advocacy for better working conditions in the wellness/health care space. I'm a registered nurse looking to transition to becoming a therapist, and there's a lot of overlap of these two fields- some good and some bad. Your demeanor and way of presenting information is straight forward and calm, which is really helpful when you're anxiously wading through loads of new information.
@TheUndoing2024 Let's not discourage strangers on the internet. We don't know each other's stories, best to keep it positive especially in a place for learning ☺
Thank you so much for sharing this!! I am going to go through the rest of your videos. I'd love to learn more about opening your private practice! I went to school and got my teaching degree and disliked it so much, I am going back to school for a masters to become a therapist
When I started out in 2009 I was make six figures as a candidate and as a fully licensed until our state went and put a 35 hour rule. But recently that was taken away so could easily make six again and this is just in a small agency in Oklahoma. Some therapist just don't ask questions and once you know about percentages or how much insurance pays there is no way not to make more than 50 k easy. Independent contracting is the best way to make the bigger bucks and you get the freedom to make your own schedule.
Thanks so much for this video. I'm applying to grad school right now after 10 years in the tech sector. Sounds like private practice is the way to go. Also sounds like therapists need a union to raise their wages at agencies.
Hello :) I have a BS in mathematics so I am academically suited for the tech industry, but I feel my true calling/ my passions lie in the field of psychology/ counseling. I’m considering changing my career goals, may I ask why you are leaving the tech sector after 10 years ?
I've been thinking of going to become a therapist. I am hoping to to straight to private practice as I'm looking to make at least COL in my area (Central FL). At this point, I'd be happy to make at least $70k and do side hustles based on my degree to present and distribute workshops or books.
I have a degree in psychology and I've just finished my first year as trainee psychotherapist (UK) - I was surprised how taboo the question of what kind of money you earn was in my training group early on - never bothered me, I love the field, love the work & love the people - but it's a LOT of work and a LOT of studying and a LOT of associated costs, I ain't about to do this for free. Thanks for the video though seems to be just as difficult to get an answer online to this as it is in person =D
It really is...we are supposed to be helpers NOT business men/women...but that is so toxic to perpetuate. I am glad you found it helpful, I don't know how it translates to other counties as I am in the US.
@@allyssapowers it's about the same as far as I can tell, typical week for a therapist accredited by the body I'm training under is about 25 hours, average hourly rate is about £50 so that's around £5,000 per month or $6,290 - though right now while I'm in training it costs about £1,120 a month all things considered ahah! - I won't be working 25 hours a week though I think them's weaksauce numbers I'd make it at least 37, fingers crossed it'll be worth it in the end.
Thanks, very informative for someone in hospital case management considering private practice. Currently provisionally licensed (for another 4 months) making 55k base, 76k after overtime. Certain hospitals pay outrageous overtime after shift and retention bonuses.
I think it's tacitly assumed that women who go into the mental health field (and it is a female dominated field) will get married to men who make more than us. I used to be a therapist at a mental health center and my salary was identical to what it is now working an entry level position at an insurance company lol
I'm a master's level therapist a few months away from independent licensure working in addictions in rural New Mexico. I initially made $52000 out of school and pull around $55000 with benefits at an agency. Considering adding independent contracting work or PP in the future.
Right … I think people forget it’s so much you can add with your degree. You don’t have to just see clients at 1 place. With your Master’s and license you can do plenty of things
when your priorities change from helping people to cash flow, your skills now start suffering because your focus is now on bills that need to be paid and what vacations you can go on. THINK ABOUT IT.
@@december12ist I completely disagree within this. When you run your own practice, you are running a business, so understanding and being mindful of the financial side of it is very important. You can also do both, value being paid what you are worth and still providing the best care and support for your clients. I would argue that most of the people I know that burn out in this field are the ones that are not getting paid well. They are stressed about paying bills and not being able to go on vacation and working too hard.
In CA the counselors I know are getting atleast 40.00 an hour which translates to about 76K out of grad school. With a license it goes up more. Some people make a lot less, but they generally choose to work in a low paying agency. Idk why. I haven’t got an offer under $40.00 and hour and the highest I got, unlicensed was $55.00 an hour.
As a therapist in the state of Georgia, I would not recommend becoming a licensed professional counselor. I would recommend becoming a psychologist. It takes longer to get the phd to practice as a psychologist but it is definitely worth it. They get paid more and do not have to deal with a lot of the issues therapists have to deal with.
I was looking into this yesterday as well. Whatever I choose after I’m done with this degree I start next Summer. I’m from Houston but have been in GA awhile. They definitely need therapists here
PA, rural: only non-profits to choose from until you get independent licensure. 2021: $41k non-profit. 2023: $48k, job hop, still non-profit. 2024, finally licensed, private practice, just starting... We'll see!
i'm sorry, but most in the video is not accurate. people who make $35k are people who are just out of graduate school who are prelicensed and working under supervision because prelicensed folks cannot bill insurance. fully licensed people do not make $35k or anything near. once you become fully licensed, which can take some like 3 years to do, you then make a lot more. The low end is 55k but the average I would say around 75k depending on the agency, but you typically get full benefits and very generous pto, generally. If you go into private practice, then you can easily make 100k if you work at least close to full time caseload with insurance. Most people I work with who are fully licensed with established practices and take insurance or work for agencies, can provide for themselves just fine. Are you making as much as a dentist no, should we be making more and compensated more with insurance companies, absolutely yes, no question. but it is not as dire as this video wants you to believe
I had 50 responses on an anonymous survey for therapist about job satisfaction, including salary. 70% of respondents were fully licensed, and many of them were making rates comparable to what the video says. I am in the process of interviewing for a master's program and trying to convince myself it'll be worth it to follow this road. I wanna help people, but I am also tired of living in the depths of poverty. 😪
@@allyssapowers I believe that's what I'll have to do to be happy in the long run. I'm a single parent so that's a factor as well. It's a bit stressful, I'm coming out of owning a small business and when I first started my journey for this path, I thought I was choosing a career that would have stability working for someone else. I didn't expect all the things I've learned about the field since then. 😂 But I do enjoy being my own boss, and am thinking that I learned so much from my time as a photographer. Maybe things worked out that way to build up to something bigger?
@@GladToBeHereNow MN. I am fully insurance and telehealth, see an average of around 27 clients a week, and am on set to take in 180k+ this year. I also took 6 weeks of vacation this year.
I’m about to get my BA in Sociology and want to pursue a Masters in Psychology to become a marriage therapist. What kind of therapy do you do? I want to help people but I also want to be able to pay back any loans I get. So what’s the highest paying type of therapy ? I used to make 50k w/ out a BA in the weed business. So I have a high standard when it comes to wages. I’m in California btw.
Very informative video…thank you. I heard you mention about you being in the school setting, so am I. I am a school counselor and am trying to get my LPC to have my own private practice. How did you transition from having a retirement fund in public education to now having to set it aside with your own private practice? That is always my concern. Thank you
Awesome! I totally understand going from public school benefits to being self-employed is quite the jump. I kept all my retirement in my STRS and OPERS and now with self employment I contribute to a Roth IRA and a SEP IRA as well as an HSA. There are tons of options you can also do a 401k.
insurance pays more than that, even medical assistance pays at least $110 with some private insurance paying up to $220. I am in private practice, am pretty much insurance only, take all insurances, sees around 25 to 27 clients a week and works around 44 weeks a year and easily brings 160k a year but am expecting to actually bring in around 180k if not closer to 200k. and I am an lpcc
@@allyssapowers Minnesota. I try to see 27 clients a week and sometimes 30. for the year of 2023, with insurance pay only client and seeing around 25 to 30 a clients week with an average of 27 and I took like 6 weeks off and I brought in just over $160k
@@hmb53811 I love hearing that because I think so many therapist are very afraid of insurance, but it seems like you have done a wonderful job of navigating it.
@@allyssapowers exactly. it's possible to make a living taking insurance. People just have to make sure that they are setting their rates high enough. I see so many therapists only charging like $120 a session. well, insurance is never going to compensate more than you charge even if they actually reimburse $147 or $220 a session. I set my rates at $250 per intake and $220 per session, that way I am not leaving any money from insurance on the table per say.
Omg that is great!! I hope to be a therapist who can take insurance since I really want to help people but pay is also important to me, I am 18 and in my second semester! Can I ask, do you have a PhD or a PsyD? I am not sure how it works in Minnesota but I know some states don’t require a PhD. Also how many years of experience you have?
I take insurance and really do not have any private pay clients, see around 27 clients a month, takes 6 weeks off a year, and bring in over 15k a month, I am master's level clinician lpcc
I’m in Ga… will be moving for awhile. I will more than likely be back here eventually. Im in grad school now in an applied ministry program but my LMFT program starts next summer. GA NEEDS counselors. I May change to LPC, but not 100% sure yet about that change
@@allyssapowers random question- is the working only with clients in states your licensed in only for if you are billing insurance? (is it the same for self pay or private pay clients?)
what makes it that one therapist can charge 150-200 dollars out of pocket and others are covered by insurance? Is it more schooling that they’ve done etc that they are now able to charge so much?
Nope! It's just finding clients that are willing to self-pay at that rate. It does help to have a niche or specialty and it also takes a good bit of marketing and SEO.
When you pay 30% toward taxes, then you pay office rent, utilities, workshops and licensure renewal, you might bill at $200 but you don’t actually get that.
experience and specialization makes a big difference, not so much degree level. also depends on your client pool and finding enough to pay that amount which is not that many in most places
Question- you can’t graduate and start a private practice right after getting your license correct? You have to be supervised first and then you can do private practice? I just want to make sure I have understood how this works. Thanks in advance.
You can do private practice straight away! You just need a supervisor and you cannot contract with most insurance plans until your are an LPCC so many people do wait, I have friends who have fully self pay practices as LPCs. Also it seems like online therapy is here to stay so I see no difference between and LPC and an LPCC in that realm. If you work for a group practice you can bill under an LPCC who is contracted...hope that makes sense!
@@allyssapowers when you look back - do you recommend going right into private practice? Or do you recommend doing group practice first and then transitioning to PP? I'm expected to graduate this December and would like to go into PP right away but have heard that some therapists don't recommend it.. appreciate any insight!
@@genevievebingham940 I wish that I had gone right into PP. I think it depends though...do you want to build a business and market it? That is such a huge part of private practice so if you want to be able to just focus on clients and building your skills I think a group is a great way to go.
@@allyssapowersThank you for the response- I was never alerted to you responding, for some odd reason. Thankfully I came back to watch your video again and seen it. I am thinking of going straight into online therapy after graduation. But I need to do some research on how you are supervised doing tele health counseling and what benefits ect you get.
Is that 85k gross or net? And do you mind me asking what part of Ohio you're in? I'm from Ohio and thinking of maybe moving back some day, so just curious on that. Also, thank you so much for this video! Super helpful and now I'm going to binge your videos lol (I'm in grad school fyi)
@@allyssapowers Nice, I'm from that area! Thank you for replying to both my comments! And thank you for that info, that is helpful for me factorin gin how much is actually taken home, given there are business expenses and taxes and benefits one has to provide oneself. Do you feel like you are good with that amont of income?
It is definitely annoying because you have to pay quarterly, but hiring a CPA to help you is totally worth it, he tells me what I owe and I send in the check, pretty easy. When I first started my practice I tried to do my own taxes and that was NOT the move.
You can also set yourself up as a SMB and use a service such as ADP to pay yourself and taxes and W-2s will generate at year end. Then you can do your write offs, expenses etc via a CPA.
I am wondering when you are getting your 3000 hours in after graduation, does that mean 3000 clients? Or can some of those hours be indirect or not necessarily face to face with a client?
You got your second what (5:30) in 2020 that changed your split from 40/60 to 30/70 at the group practice? Coming directly out of grad school and joining the group practice, does that mean you were you still an associate and working on finishing your 3000 supervised hours?
Does anyone have a good idea for cost of overhead in a private or group practice? I am trying to figure out how much that closes the wage gap. Currently (in Utah w/ 8 yrs experience) I am at 78k with 32k benefits package. That is at an agency full-time seeing 30 or so clients per week. I like the idea of working in a group practice, seeing fewer clients, having more control, and making a bit of a higher wage. But does having to pay for/worry about insurance, paying for billing, paying for benefits on my own, and other overhead make the different mostly negligible?
I am in private practice and am telehealth only. My average overhead costs per month is around $1000 per month and that includes pretty much everything including an outside biller that takes care of everything
Glad to be in the UK - no, most therapists don’t make much as self-employed… but student debt is minimal and manageable, and expectations are easy to find salary wise. NHS pays well. It’s sad how money is such a barrier, especially in the US…
Still young but I’m empathetic and always helping my friends mentally so I think I might start to get into therapy also it just seems like a career I’d like to get into. Any tips for people who can’t apply to college yet?
Realize you are looking at close to 10 years before you become fully licensed and you're making fairly good money. It takes dedication and a great passion to become a masters level therapist.❤
Usually private practice jobs won't be listed that way...if they are saying you get an hourly rate I would assume you are getting the full amount they state.
You can do telehealth as an LPC, but you cannot contract with most insurances until you have your LPCC. Insurance dictates if you can do telehealth or not...I think most insurance plans post covid still allow for it.
You should look into "entrepreneurial therapist" on IG and Spotify, she has a practice in that area and it seems like she has had no problem maintaining a fully private pay practice.
@@Iammarlonbrown that is way too low. You are essentially working for free. you should be billing no less than $150 per hour. I mean insurance reimburses more than $125 per hour
@@allyssapowers Cool, I practice out of Kent. I want to move to Holmes County, someday though. Equine assisted would be awesome! I'm taking my NCMHCE next Sat. (I watched your vid on it, too).
School counselor in Indiana. Looking to get my masters in LCMH. I want to do telehealth so that my schedule can be more flexible as a momma. Any advice? Would this be a good financial decision?
I'm in NC and do mostly online. The platforms like Talkspace pay well and a bonus but some clients will leave without a word. Don't take it personally. A good place for referrals is MDLive.
So, I have my bachelors in psychology and I’m currently 9 classes away from getting my masters in family and marriage counseling from Houston Christian University in Texas. The more I look into the potential salary of an FMT the more disheartened I get because it doesn’t seem like I’d be able to support my own family in this career. Does anyone have any advice or hope for me that I haven’t wasted the last 6-7 years in school for this? $35-55k a year is barely enough to pay for an apt and groceries, let alone a family. Unless this is for part time and I can have a second job that pays just as much
That is actually quite low. Where I worked that is not enough to be considered full time and receive benefits. At my job we had to bill 22+ hours a week (which is 22 therapy sessions lasting 1 hour each) at a bare minimum.
I am not in this field myself but as a patient who used to go to therapy, i honestly dont understand why you or anyone would want to do this miserable job? If people cared truly about helping others, then the financial rewards shouldnt matter, but on the other side of the coin, it must be a horrible job having to listen to miserable people and their issues which are mostly down to their own failures in life. Still as a patient,, i dont believe in it any more because as smart and intelligent and deserving of good pay as you should have, i also dont believe any of you care one fig about the patients as all i ever had were sanctimonious platitudes, and being belittled, i even overheard my therapist laughing at one of my issues behind my back. I wish those who are doing this good luck.
???… would love to know your experiences because therapy actually works when you are all in and consistent. It’s like anything else, but you also have to work with someone you connect with well
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In Philly I made 85k my first year out of grad school, last year, working at a group practice with a 45/55 split, with me getting the low end. I left that practice to open my own this January and I’m on track to make 200k this year. Granted, I see a lot of clients but I’m loving it. We don’t have a lpcc here, just lpc after you get licensed, which I’m just Waiting on the paperwork for. I never expected the financial freedom that I have now
Damn brother, as a black man graduating with my MSW is august, reading your comment really made me feel optimistic about what’s to come. I’ve been worried like did I choose the wrong field? Am I gonna be poor? Seeing someone else that looks like me killing it in the field gives me hope that everything will be ok, thanks!
Been thinking about relocating to Philly to get my hours as well, did you make that 85k pre license?
@@sanford360I would encourage you to stay the course. you are NEEDED!!!
@@sanford360I’m still pre licensed…I am waiting on the board to do what they do. So I made the 89k, last year and I’m going to pull more than double that this year, so you can still do what you love and make a good living doing it.
Woah that is SO encouraging to hear! I love private practice for the financial potential it gives us!
I have a 8-4:30 job in CA and as an LCSW I make over 107k per year with full benefits. In addition, I do private practice on the side and only see about 6-8 clients per week for an additional 35k per year. Great video!
WHAT?! That's amazing! I want to be like you when I grow up
Thanks for sharing! I am so encouraged to hear you are making a great living.
I’m in CA also and in school for MFT…thank you for sharing!
I live in California too what city do you make 6 figures in?
I'm inferring that it's a county job?
Central CA ASW:
2021- New grad: $62k PACE program
2022- $67k county Behavioral health
2023- 85k county + side gig (home health)
2024- 95k county + side gig (home health)
2025-hopefully licensed and earning close to 6 figures 🤞🏽
Ah that is amazing! I hope you meet that goal ☺
I'm in the Central Valley too! I just got my ASW, and agencies have been clamoring to hire me. A bunch of non-profits just increased their salaries and are giving huge sign-on bonuses. I'm kind of glad I waited but it makes me sad to see how big of a need for mental health is here and agencies are desperate.
I also go to pace University in pleasentville hopefully i start off with that much. Im almost graduating
@@Ericdj15 Do you have an update for us? I'm curious!
are you a masters graduate?
@ In May 2025 I’m graduating :) thanks for checking in.
It’s really sad that we don’t get paid what we’re worth knowing the state of mental health in this country
I know and even sadder that big companies like Better Help are trying to replace quality therapy with "fast therapy" and paying their employees terribly!
@@allyssapowershow much does insurance typically reimburse on average? Did you have to dig to find the best paying companies?
@@our.secret1130In Ohio I would say anywhere from 80-120 is average...yes you have to ask around to figure out what the rates are and it varies a lot per state.
@@allyssapowers thank you so much for responding:) I’m considering getting licensed in multiple states in the future if I practice remotely.
Can I ask one more thing? Is being a therapist very sad or emotionally depressing like, do you feel it impacts your overall life satisfaction and spiritual balance? This is my biggest worry about pursuing this career
@@our.secret1130 it's not the same as being a therapist but volunteering with a crisis line (like Crisis Text Line) is a good way to test if you enjoy working with people in crisis.
Thank you for being so transparent! It's very helpful as a psych student :)
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks for the informative video. I’m pondering switching from a high-paying career to becoming a therapist, and I live in a very high-cost city. So potential salary info is super helpful.
Glad it could help David! The higher cost of the city the more earning potential you have as a therapist.
Awesome video! You nailed it! I agree with everything you said. I'm a therapist in NM. The hardest part of the financial aspect for me being in private practice is dealing with self employment taxes. I recommend finding a great accountant who can keep you in check so you can focus on what you are best at.
I also have an amazing biller who does my credentialing and billing and that also makes a huge difference for me so I don't have to deal with insurance. How to find a good biller and what to expect for paying them, or hiring help vs doing billing yourself would be great video topics for those starting out.
I love that idea, I have worked with a biller for years and I am actually thinking about switching to Simple Practices billing system now that I have such a small caseload.
Thank you Jill for your insight. I’m about to apply for grad school in Jan and wondering where you got your masters? also can you just open your own practice after you get licensed with a masters?
@@allyssapowers I've heard a lot about about Simple Practice but I don't know much about it. It seems like a lot of people use it! I hope that works out well for you!
@@kaseychristie7690 Oh awesome! Yes, you can open your own practice. As long as you are independently licensed, you can bill under your own name. Before that, you would need to work under a supervisor, at least when I was starting out that's how it was. I was nervous to take the leap but I'm so glad I did!! I'd find some friends in a similar boat if possible and try to be there for each other. It's so helpful to have people you can call and vice versa when you're getting up and running but have a question. There are also private practice coaches and consultants who I never thought of at the time but who can also help a lot.
@@emdrwithjill Thank you. This is such helpful information.
This video… I’ve been trying to find it for years!! Thanks for the clear presentation
Glad it was helpful!
So helpful! I’m a grad student in counseling. One more year to go, out of 3. Really need this perspective. Not getting this vital info in the program. Will tune in for more! Thank you!
Yes! So glad it helped. We almost never talked money in grad school :(
Check indeed and see what companies are offering new graduates in your area. Not indeed’s average, but what each job ad mentions as pay. Things have changed dramatically the last couple of years and new counselors are struggling to obtain reasonable pay. Private pay used to be common but most can’t afford it now and insurance companies are hit and miss with pay.
Really depends on the state you live in, in NYC an LMSW can make well over 70k. Private practice in NYC, 6 figures for sure.
The cost of living is higher in those places.
True, LCSWs with the state or hospital make good money. I know a social worker at 105k with the school district. Of course, this is anecdotal and sadly many states aren't compensating clinicians enough! My state, New Mexico, has poured a ton of money into the mental health profession in all the different agencies and fields (schools, community mental health, CPS, etc.).
@@Rarararue What is their job title or role at the hospital?
@@molly2frodo222 at the hospital, the title is just Clinical Social Worker. Typically LCSWs make the most. If you're interested in a school position that usually requires a social work degree, you might want to look into the role of Behavior Intervention/Support Specialists. Starting salary in my state (New Mexico) is 74k to 77k. This is good pay in this state, the COL is much lower than big cities. Social workers and mental health counselors also make decent money working with the state, such as CPS, typically begins at around 65k and upwards of 110k. Obviously salary can vary a lot but it's worth looking into different state agencies, hospitals, schools, etc..
Texas is rough, especially directly out of school. Associates are being offered $20 an hour, not including the cost of supervision which is around $2400-4800 per year. Caseloads are about 30-35 clients. You can’t upgrade until 3k hours met and 18 months minimum. Lots of counselors burning out before full licensure.
Full licensure pay isn’t great either. Insurance companies pay lowest in the nation and with our crazy cost of living increases most people can’t afford private pay. I wish I’d known this was the situation beforehand. I think the only people making money are those who’ve been in practice for a long time or those who own these major companies paying the low wages.
$20 an hour?! They must be joking. I am trying to decide whether to accept this grad school interview, I am in Texas. $20?! I feel like I can make more than that on my bachelor! That's wild 😭
Everything you’ve commented is what’s holding me back from starting school. I feel like I really want to do it, but I have children to care for.
The other thing to add is you are not just tied to working in TX. You can do online work etc. You could teach in higher ed. based on your degree. I think it’s important to use all of what your degree gives you.
@@SANIA-ko8hh Masters, but I’m seeing a lot of advice to avoid getting a PhD these days too.
Thank you for being transparent ♡
I'm currently a student and I'm trying to make a plan. I have a couple questions ♡
What schooling do you have, what kind of therapist are you?
How do you start your own practice?
I was thinking about working for myself - but virtually, what are your thoughts?
Hi! That is a loaded question, I will do my best! I am an LPC, I totally think you could own a remote practice (i do!), there is a ton that goes into starting a private practice...that could be a whole video series within itself on my channel. I know Private Practice Skills has some great videos on this!
I’m a therapist in the military and make 130k. It’s an option a lot of people don’t think about!
What schooling route did you take to accomplish this? Also do you just work for the military or are you affiliated and active with a branch?
@@starfishbatman I’m a LCSW and am in the military as a commissioned officer. The pay is more because of time in service and varies depending on where you are stationed as well because of an untaxed housing allowance
@@deaeilla7387 gotcha, okay thanks so much for the insight!
Thank you so much for this video. There needs to be more transparency and advocacy for better working conditions in the wellness/health care space. I'm a registered nurse looking to transition to becoming a therapist, and there's a lot of overlap of these two fields- some good and some bad. Your demeanor and way of presenting information is straight forward and calm, which is really helpful when you're anxiously wading through loads of new information.
Thanks for the sweet feedback Jackie and best of luck with your potential career change!
@TheUndoing2024 Let's not discourage strangers on the internet. We don't know each other's stories, best to keep it positive especially in a place for learning ☺
Thank you so much for sharing this!! I am going to go through the rest of your videos. I'd love to learn more about opening your private practice! I went to school and got my teaching degree and disliked it so much, I am going back to school for a masters to become a therapist
Ah so glad you found me and welcome to the teacher dropout club!
Thank you for being so transparent with your current and past salaries. This was very helpful!
Glad it was helpful!
When I started out in 2009 I was make six figures as a candidate and as a fully licensed until our state went and put a 35 hour rule. But recently that was taken away so could easily make six again and this is just in a small agency in Oklahoma. Some therapist just don't ask questions and once you know about percentages or how much insurance pays there is no way not to make more than 50 k easy. Independent contracting is the best way to make the bigger bucks and you get the freedom to make your own schedule.
Thanks so much for this video. I'm applying to grad school right now after 10 years in the tech sector.
Sounds like private practice is the way to go.
Also sounds like therapists need a union to raise their wages at agencies.
Hello :) I have a BS in mathematics so I am academically suited for the tech industry, but I feel my true calling/ my passions lie in the field of psychology/ counseling. I’m considering changing my career goals, may I ask why you are leaving the tech sector after 10 years ?
I've been thinking of going to become a therapist. I am hoping to to straight to private practice as I'm looking to make at least COL in my area (Central FL). At this point, I'd be happy to make at least $70k and do side hustles based on my degree to present and distribute workshops or books.
I think 70k is very doable with private practice!
Thanks for this!! Considering going to grad school soon!! Also from Ohio!!
Ah so glad it helped!
I have a degree in psychology and I've just finished my first year as trainee psychotherapist (UK) - I was surprised how taboo the question of what kind of money you earn was in my training group early on - never bothered me, I love the field, love the work & love the people - but it's a LOT of work and a LOT of studying and a LOT of associated costs, I ain't about to do this for free. Thanks for the video though seems to be just as difficult to get an answer online to this as it is in person =D
It really is...we are supposed to be helpers NOT business men/women...but that is so toxic to perpetuate. I am glad you found it helpful, I don't know how it translates to other counties as I am in the US.
@@allyssapowers it's about the same as far as I can tell, typical week for a therapist accredited by the body I'm training under is about 25 hours, average hourly rate is about £50 so that's around £5,000 per month or $6,290 - though right now while I'm in training it costs about £1,120 a month all things considered ahah! - I won't be working 25 hours a week though I think them's weaksauce numbers I'd make it at least 37, fingers crossed it'll be worth it in the end.
Thanks, very informative for someone in hospital case management considering private practice. Currently provisionally licensed (for another 4 months) making 55k base, 76k after overtime. Certain hospitals pay outrageous overtime after shift and retention bonuses.
Glad it could help! I would guess you could make much more for less hours in private practice.
Thanks for making this video, it was very helpful! I'm applying to Master's programs this year.
Ah so exciting! Best of luck.
I think it's tacitly assumed that women who go into the mental health field (and it is a female dominated field) will get married to men who make more than us.
I used to be a therapist at a mental health center and my salary was identical to what it is now working an entry level position at an insurance company lol
@@justpeachy4393 is it soul sucking
That’s really awesome ! I’m proud of you. I hope that I can do what you’re doing soon.
Thank you and I believe you can!
Nice video with realistic information. Thanks 😊
I know benefits are really valuable. But man. 15 clients a week? Sign me upppppp
Yes! Pros and cons for sure, but I love the private practice life for that very reason. Freedom of my time.
@@allyssapowers you’re beautiful and amazing:)
How exactly should you go about working for a private practice? Is there a lot more work to be put in for doing so compared to working for an agency?
I just got accepted to grad school in Ohio, today! This was so helpful (:
Aw congrats!!!
I'm a master's level therapist a few months away from independent licensure working in addictions in rural New Mexico. I initially made $52000 out of school and pull around $55000 with benefits at an agency. Considering adding independent contracting work or PP in the future.
Amazing!
Right … I think people forget it’s so much you can add with your degree. You don’t have to just see clients at 1 place. With your Master’s and license you can do plenty of things
when your priorities change from helping people to cash flow, your skills now start suffering because your focus is now on bills that need to be paid and what vacations you can go on. THINK ABOUT IT.
@@december12ist I completely disagree within this. When you run your own practice, you are running a business, so understanding and being mindful of the financial side of it is very important. You can also do both, value being paid what you are worth and still providing the best care and support for your clients. I would argue that most of the people I know that burn out in this field are the ones that are not getting paid well. They are stressed about paying bills and not being able to go on vacation and working too hard.
I think it depends where u get the job, for instance, in VA clinic in my area in FL therapist get paid 40 a hour.
In CA the counselors I know are getting atleast 40.00 an hour which translates to about 76K out of grad school. With a license it goes up more.
Some people make a lot less, but they generally choose to work in a low paying agency. Idk why. I haven’t got an offer under $40.00 and hour and the highest I got, unlicensed was $55.00 an hour.
As a therapist in the state of Georgia, I would not recommend becoming a licensed professional counselor. I would recommend becoming a psychologist. It takes longer to get the phd to practice as a psychologist but it is definitely worth it. They get paid more and do not have to deal with a lot of the issues therapists have to deal with.
I was looking into this yesterday as well. Whatever I choose after I’m done with this degree I start next Summer. I’m from Houston but have been in GA awhile. They definitely need therapists here
PA, rural: only non-profits to choose from until you get independent licensure.
2021: $41k non-profit.
2023: $48k, job hop, still non-profit.
2024, finally licensed, private practice, just starting... We'll see!
yay yay yay!! It's about to get good.
i'm sorry, but most in the video is not accurate. people who make $35k are people who are just out of graduate school who are prelicensed and working under supervision because prelicensed folks cannot bill insurance. fully licensed people do not make $35k or anything near. once you become fully licensed, which can take some like 3 years to do, you then make a lot more. The low end is 55k but the average I would say around 75k depending on the agency, but you typically get full benefits and very generous pto, generally. If you go into private practice, then you can easily make 100k if you work at least close to full time caseload with insurance. Most people I work with who are fully licensed with established practices and take insurance or work for agencies, can provide for themselves just fine. Are you making as much as a dentist no, should we be making more and compensated more with insurance companies, absolutely yes, no question. but it is not as dire as this video wants you to believe
I had 50 responses on an anonymous survey for therapist about job satisfaction, including salary. 70% of respondents were fully licensed, and many of them were making rates comparable to what the video says. I am in the process of interviewing for a master's program and trying to convince myself it'll be worth it to follow this road. I wanna help people, but I am also tired of living in the depths of poverty. 😪
It makes me sad that we even have to think that way...have you thought about private practice?
@@allyssapowers I believe that's what I'll have to do to be happy in the long run. I'm a single parent so that's a factor as well. It's a bit stressful, I'm coming out of owning a small business and when I first started my journey for this path, I thought I was choosing a career that would have stability working for someone else. I didn't expect all the things I've learned about the field since then. 😂 But I do enjoy being my own boss, and am thinking that I learned so much from my time as a photographer. Maybe things worked out that way to build up to something bigger?
What state are you in? In NC, $45k is common even for years of experience working private practice.
@@GladToBeHereNow MN. I am fully insurance and telehealth, see an average of around 27 clients a week, and am on set to take in 180k+ this year. I also took 6 weeks of vacation this year.
I’m about to get my BA in Sociology and want to pursue a Masters in Psychology to become a marriage therapist. What kind of therapy do you do? I want to help people but I also want to be able to pay back any loans I get. So what’s the highest paying type of therapy ? I used to make 50k w/ out a BA in the weed business. So I have a high standard when it comes to wages. I’m in California btw.
I think private practice therapists have the highest earning potential.
They charge 200 and up an hour here is SF Bay,
Yep that checks out lol
Very informative video…thank you. I heard you mention about you being in the school setting, so am I. I am a school counselor and am trying to get my LPC to have my own private practice. How did you transition from having a retirement fund in public education to now having to set it aside with your own private practice? That is always my concern. Thank you
Awesome! I totally understand going from public school benefits to being self-employed is quite the jump. I kept all my retirement in my STRS and OPERS and now with self employment I contribute to a Roth IRA and a SEP IRA as well as an HSA. There are tons of options you can also do a 401k.
@@allyssapowers Thank you so much, you’re awesome!
insurance pays more than that, even medical assistance pays at least $110 with some private insurance paying up to $220. I am in private practice, am pretty much insurance only, take all insurances, sees around 25 to 27 clients a week and works around 44 weeks a year and easily brings 160k a year but am expecting to actually bring in around 180k if not closer to 200k. and I am an lpcc
That is amazing! What state are you in?
@@allyssapowers Minnesota. I try to see 27 clients a week and sometimes 30. for the year of 2023, with insurance pay only client and seeing around 25 to 30 a clients week with an average of 27 and I took like 6 weeks off and I brought in just over $160k
@@hmb53811 I love hearing that because I think so many therapist are very afraid of insurance, but it seems like you have done a wonderful job of navigating it.
@@allyssapowers exactly. it's possible to make a living taking insurance. People just have to make sure that they are setting their rates high enough. I see so many therapists only charging like $120 a session. well, insurance is never going to compensate more than you charge even if they actually reimburse $147 or $220 a session. I set my rates at $250 per intake and $220 per session, that way I am not leaving any money from insurance on the table per say.
Omg that is great!! I hope to be a therapist who can take insurance since I really want to help people but pay is also important to me, I am 18 and in my second semester! Can I ask, do you have a PhD or a PsyD? I am not sure how it works in Minnesota but I know some states don’t require a PhD. Also how many years of experience you have?
private practice in MD charges 150-200 per hour. My therapist is probably taking home 20k a month
I take insurance and really do not have any private pay clients, see around 27 clients a month, takes 6 weeks off a year, and bring in over 15k a month, I am master's level clinician lpcc
Anyone in GA? Wanting to get into therapy.
I’m in Ga… will be moving for awhile. I will more than likely be back here eventually. Im in grad school now in an applied ministry program but my LMFT program starts next summer. GA NEEDS counselors. I May change to LPC, but not 100% sure yet about that change
Thank you for sharing! ❤
You are so welcome!
Any tips for those completing their undergrad? What type of jobs do you recommend to gain any relevant experience?
Is it possible to work as a counselor online? I have plans to move to another country this year. The US became impossible to live in.
Yes, I work fully online! You can only see clients located in the state you are licensed in, not sure how it works outside of USA.
@@allyssapowers random question- is the working only with clients in states your licensed in only for if you are billing insurance? (is it the same for self pay or private pay clients?)
@@MissG517 either way you must be licensed in that state...its considered practicing without a license if not.
what makes it that one therapist can charge 150-200 dollars out of pocket and others are covered by insurance? Is it more schooling that they’ve done etc that they are now able to charge so much?
Nope! It's just finding clients that are willing to self-pay at that rate. It does help to have a niche or specialty and it also takes a good bit of marketing and SEO.
When you pay 30% toward taxes, then you pay office rent, utilities, workshops and licensure renewal, you might bill at $200 but you don’t actually get that.
No. Mostly experience and the clients can afford that much out of pocket bc it's an affluent area.
@allyssapowers She's right. Trauma is a good niche, PTSD, little t trauma like chronic adversities in childhood and teen years.❤
experience and specialization makes a big difference, not so much degree level. also depends on your client pool and finding enough to pay that amount which is not that many in most places
Question- you can’t graduate and start a private practice right after getting your license correct? You have to be supervised first and then you can do private practice? I just want to make sure I have understood how this works. Thanks in advance.
Also- what about doing online therapy?
You can do private practice straight away! You just need a supervisor and you cannot contract with most insurance plans until your are an LPCC so many people do wait, I have friends who have fully self pay practices as LPCs. Also it seems like online therapy is here to stay so I see no difference between and LPC and an LPCC in that realm. If you work for a group practice you can bill under an LPCC who is contracted...hope that makes sense!
@@allyssapowers when you look back - do you recommend going right into private practice? Or do you recommend doing group practice first and then transitioning to PP? I'm expected to graduate this December and would like to go into PP right away but have heard that some therapists don't recommend it.. appreciate any insight!
@@genevievebingham940 I wish that I had gone right into PP. I think it depends though...do you want to build a business and market it? That is such a huge part of private practice so if you want to be able to just focus on clients and building your skills I think a group is a great way to go.
@@allyssapowersThank you for the response- I was never alerted to you responding, for some odd reason. Thankfully I came back to watch your video again and seen it. I am thinking of going straight into online therapy after graduation. But I need to do some research on how you are supervised doing tele health counseling and what benefits ect you get.
Florida 72 k a year here
With a license?
@@rand_-mk5lb yes
@@Carlauta Do you enjoy your career? How is it day to day? I just got accepted into a program.
Thanks for sharing.
Is that 85k gross or net? And do you mind me asking what part of Ohio you're in? I'm from Ohio and thinking of maybe moving back some day, so just curious on that. Also, thank you so much for this video! Super helpful and now I'm going to binge your videos lol (I'm in grad school fyi)
Hello fellow Ohioian! That was gross income and I am from Northeast Ohio.
@@allyssapowers Nice, I'm from that area! Thank you for replying to both my comments! And thank you for that info, that is helpful for me factorin gin how much is actually taken home, given there are business expenses and taxes and benefits one has to provide oneself. Do you feel like you are good with that amont of income?
Is it hard to do taxes when you have your own private practice? I feel like that’s what’s holding me back.
It is definitely annoying because you have to pay quarterly, but hiring a CPA to help you is totally worth it, he tells me what I owe and I send in the check, pretty easy. When I first started my practice I tried to do my own taxes and that was NOT the move.
You can also set yourself up as a SMB and use a service such as ADP to pay yourself and taxes and W-2s will generate at year end. Then you can do your write offs, expenses etc via a CPA.
Funny, I’m a tax accountant wanting to go back to grad school to be a therapists…
no, just find an accountant and it's not very difficulty. it is extra steps but nothing crazy, at least I don't think
I am wondering when you are getting your 3000 hours in after graduation, does that mean 3000 clients? Or can some of those hours be indirect or not necessarily face to face with a client?
I would check with your individual board, but in Ohio all the hours are direct client hours where a diagnosis is involved.
It's usually a 40 hour work week counting indirect hours as well. The NBCC board for counselors requires 3,000 in all states.
You got your second what (5:30) in 2020 that changed your split from 40/60 to 30/70 at the group practice?
Coming directly out of grad school and joining the group practice, does that mean you were you still an associate and working on finishing your 3000 supervised hours?
I got my second C so went from LPC to LPCC.
@@allyssapowers do you get that extra C simply by completing your first year or intern?
Does anyone have a good idea for cost of overhead in a private or group practice? I am trying to figure out how much that closes the wage gap. Currently (in Utah w/ 8 yrs experience) I am at 78k with 32k benefits package. That is at an agency full-time seeing 30 or so clients per week. I like the idea of working in a group practice, seeing fewer clients, having more control, and making a bit of a higher wage. But does having to pay for/worry about insurance, paying for billing, paying for benefits on my own, and other overhead make the different mostly negligible?
I am in private practice and am telehealth only. My average overhead costs per month is around $1000 per month and that includes pretty much everything including an outside biller that takes care of everything
Can you explain if going to a MPCAC program worth it ? Specifically M.S in Clinical Counseling or MHC ?
My only experience is with CAPREP programs!
Glad to be in the UK - no, most therapists don’t make much as self-employed… but student debt is minimal and manageable, and expectations are easy to find salary wise. NHS pays well. It’s sad how money is such a barrier, especially in the US…
Still young but I’m empathetic and always helping my friends mentally so I think I might start to get into therapy also it just seems like a career I’d like to get into. Any tips for people who can’t apply to college yet?
I would read books, get into therapy yourself and keep watching my channel!
@@allyssapowers thanks!
Realize you are looking at close to 10 years before you become fully licensed and you're making fairly good money. It takes dedication and a great passion to become a masters level therapist.❤
@@GladToBeHereNow thank you for telling me :)
So if a practice lists a job for $50/hr for example, and it’s a 50/50 split. You would only be paid $25/hr?
Usually private practice jobs won't be listed that way...if they are saying you get an hourly rate I would assume you are getting the full amount they state.
Not $25/hour but either $50/hr or 50% of what that insurance company pays your employer. They all pay different amounts.
Is this a masters degree licensed therapist or a psychologist with a PhD?
Therapist with a masters degree LPC
Do you do any other jobs or just the 15 hours?
Just the 15 hours!
Do you recommend telehealth remote for lpc after getting licensed?
You can do telehealth as an LPC, but you cannot contract with most insurances until you have your LPCC. Insurance dictates if you can do telehealth or not...I think most insurance plans post covid still allow for it.
That's what I mostly do and love it.
What about maryland/DC area😩😩 anyone know?
You should look into "entrepreneurial therapist" on IG and Spotify, she has a practice in that area and it seems like she has had no problem maintaining a fully private pay practice.
What do you bill per hour?
100-125$
@@Iammarlonbrown that is way too low. You are essentially working for free. you should be billing no less than $150 per hour. I mean insurance reimburses more than $125 per hour
Hi, what part of Ohio do you practice?
Northeast Ohio!
@@allyssapowers Cool, I practice out of Kent. I want to move to Holmes County, someday though. Equine assisted would be awesome! I'm taking my NCMHCE next Sat. (I watched your vid on it, too).
Ah awesome, my first job was in Kent post grad school, best of luck with your test tomorrow!! @@hanaspa
School counselor in Indiana. Looking to get my masters in LCMH. I want to do telehealth so that my schedule can be more flexible as a momma. Any advice? Would this be a good financial decision?
Depends...do you want to own your own practice or just find a remote job?
I'm in NC and do mostly online. The platforms like Talkspace pay well and a bonus but some clients will leave without a word. Don't take it personally. A good place for referrals is MDLive.
So, I have my bachelors in psychology and I’m currently 9 classes away from getting my masters in family and marriage counseling from Houston Christian University in Texas.
The more I look into the potential salary of an FMT the more disheartened I get because it doesn’t seem like I’d be able to support my own family in this career. Does anyone have any advice or hope for me that I haven’t wasted the last 6-7 years in school for this? $35-55k a year is barely enough to pay for an apt and groceries, let alone a family. Unless this is for part time and I can have a second job that pays just as much
I would strongly suggest looking into private practice.
too much
15 a week sounds great lol
That is actually quite low. Where I worked that is not enough to be considered full time and receive benefits. At my job we had to bill 22+ hours a week (which is 22 therapy sessions lasting 1 hour each) at a bare minimum.
You don't care about money but charge a fortune...
I am not in this field myself but as a patient who used to go to therapy, i honestly dont understand why you or anyone would want to do this miserable job? If people cared truly about helping others, then the financial rewards shouldnt matter, but on the other side of the coin, it must be a horrible job having to listen to miserable people and their issues which are mostly down to their own failures in life. Still as a patient,, i dont believe in it any more because as smart and intelligent and deserving of good pay as you should have, i also dont believe any of you care one fig about the patients as all i ever had were sanctimonious platitudes, and being belittled, i even overheard my therapist laughing at one of my issues behind my back. I wish those who are doing this good luck.
That's sad to hear. It's my life's work, and my passion. I've seen so many clients healed and love it when I see them engaged.❤
You guys would get paid more if therapy actually worked, because of that therapy is looked at as a extra curricular activity instead of a necessity.
What has been your experience while working with therapists?
@@molly2frodo222 I ended up F ing my therapist. She couldn't resist the disfunction.
???… would love to know your experiences because therapy actually works when you are all in and consistent. It’s like anything else, but you also have to work with someone you connect with well