Holmgard: The Mysterious Capital of Ancient Russia
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- Опубликовано: 6 июн 2024
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Heading down the river Volkhov in northern Russia, travellers meet with a lake, called the Ilmen. At the northern entrance of the lake rises an archipelago of hills, turned by the rising water into little islands or peninsulas, known to the Norse as holmar. On the eastern part of the delta lies a hill, nowadays called Gorodishche. This is believed to have been a powerful local stronghold, and perhaps even the first capital, of the Rus.
Sources:
Gene Pool of the Novgorod Population - Balanovska et. al
Ibn Fadlan and the land of darkness - Paul Lunde, Caroline Stone
New data on the Ryurik Gorodishche near Novgorod - E.N. Nosov
Notes upon Russia - Sigismund Herberstein
Pantographia - Edmund Fry
The emergence of Rus, 750-1200 - Simon Franklin
The Primary Chronicle - Anonymous
Viking Rus - Wladyslaw Duczko
Древнерусское языческое святилище в Перыни - Vasili Sedov
Image credits:
By Sterndmitri - Own work, CC BY-SA 4.0, commons.wikimedia.org/w/index...
By WasilissaValskaya - Own work, CC BY-SA 3.0, commons.wikimedia.org/w/index...
By Sterndmitri - Own work, CC BY-SA 4.0, commons.wikimedia.org/w/index...
Timestamps:
0:00 Introduction
6:06 Nordic presence
8:39 Wendish presence
16:24 The Peryn sanctuary
22:17 Political power
27:09 Rise of Novgorod
#vikings #history #russia
There was no such thing as a Capital of Ancient Russia. Russia did not exist at that time. Even Moskovia did not exist at that period. Moscovia was established in 1283. Moscovian tsar Ivan the Terrible destroyed Novgorod in 1570, massacred all population and burned the city to the ground. This is how it became part of Moskovia first, after Moskovia declared itself Russia in 1721, Novgorod became part of Russia. Also Rus has nothing to do with Russia. The title is inacurate. Why to mislead your viewers? We are not dumb.
I don’t think it’s meant to mislead anybody. That area is today known as Russia, which is why it is referred to as ancient. Would be like saying “ancient china” even though a unified state known as china is a modern thing. It’s simply ease of terminology. Nobody would want to watch a video titled called “Holmgang, the city in lands we currently call Russian but actually weren’t called Russia in the past and the Russians technically massacred them and this even predates the muscovites.”
that is you who are misleading, gathereing all this sh..t from your ukrainian schools
Triggered
Moscovian tsar Ivan the fourth Rurikovich hmmmm...
Why does that last name sound familiar?
@@runemasterhariwulfaz5267Ironically, ancient Rus was ancient Russia until 2022 when suddenly it became ancient Ukraine
Hello, I am historical student from Russia. I like your channel, your videos is very good. It is rarely fashionable to see English-language content on this topic.
However, comments are something terrible. But that's always the case under historical videos: politics, controversy, and human stupidity. So, l wish you good luck!
And a little remark: "gorodishche" is pronounced with an accent on the "i"
Если Вы изучаете историю , то должны в итоге понимать , что это наука связанная с психологией .
Законами восприятия , памяти , способности и необходимости к мифотворчеству .
Например память исключает отрицательный опыт , иначе нервная система , под копящимся грузом отрицательных эмоций будет разрушаться .
При этом историк изучает именно прошлое .
То есть он должен понять , что есть информация о прошлом , которой он обладает , насколько она мифологична и зная законы мифотворчества , понять что было в реальности .
Те , кто создает опусы подобные этому о чужой истории , как раз стремятся создать нужный миф к своей выгоде , так что и комментарии этих ограниченных , западных обывателей , не должны Вас удивлять .
Привет .
all information in this video half mismatch and half fake!!!!!
There were so much contact between Sweden and Russia 1000 years ago, so we have some common folklore even.. Older people from east Sweden, when they see a black cat, spit three times over their left shoulder when they want to stop bad luck to happen..They do the same in Russia... There are also believe in Tomte, in Russia Domevoi. In Sweden we call it Troll, in Russia Lezji... There are also other examples.., but this signifies much contact in the viking-age....
In Serbia allso 😊
In Montenegro some spit some scratch their balls
the word comes from serbian word Hum meaning forrest, and Saami in Siberia, means alone in serbian. you are all serbs.
Русы не шведы.Рослаген фейк придуманный шведами с помощью Романовых и немецких учёных.Русь существовала ещё до Рорака.Рорак это славянское имя,оно означает - сокол.Герб Рорака пикирующий сокол. Украинцы изуродовали его символ превратив его в клеймо для скота хазарского каганата.Русь значит наполненая солнцем земля.Русы значит русые. Русый значит цвета солнца. Историю Руси уничтожали Романовы,чтобы перевести русских в христианство. Люди бунтовали и ненавидели новую религию. Это событие названо кровавым крещением. Только со временем когда народ лишили его истоков и памяти и переписали и перерисовали все иконы люди стали воспринимать Святовида как троицу, а Сварога который и без христиан был у нас Богом творцом и создателем всего сущего и называл нас своими детьми - христианским Илохимом.
@@progresstothestarsall are Finns*
Большое спасибо. Я из России,историк, этнограф. Великий Новгород до сих пор среди многих европейских историков считается настоящим Европейским городом средневековья.
Всмысле "настоящим европейским городом средневековья"?
@@Edarnon_Brodieв том смысле, что он был включен в европейскую экономику средневековья.
В наше время европоцентризма обычные научные термины звучат подозрительно. Но меня раздражает, если честно, когда Востоком называют все, что не Запад. Восток такой разный; что арабы, что китайцы, что индонезийцы, что бывшие советские республики Средней Азии, и что, сюрприз-сюрприз, Дагестан. Главное, чтобы к каждой стране и культуре подходили без стереотипов.
попробуй жить своим мозгом, а не европейских историков. откроется много чудных тайн. в эру информационной революции смешно опираться на мнение (((истогриков))). можно лично не выходя из дома увидеть тысячи артефактов, текстов и генетических данных связав всё это в реальною хронологию без флёра дешевой пропаганды типа евроцентризма и прочей ереси.
all information in this video half mismatch and half fake!!!!!
Thank you for including music from the Morrowind OST.
Knew that sounded familiar :)
@chicliac OH god I'm not insane, I heard it for only a moment but was immediately confused. So unexpected but not unwelcome
Holm-hlm-hum on Slavic(Serbian) mean hill. Holmgard -(Hlmgrad),mean,city on hill.
Yup, in Russian too!! But here they keep insisting on Swedish 'holme', which i guess means island LOL, and keep using the germanic ending 'gard' instead of 'grad', the slavic one. 😆
I know also butterbread is Russian
Потому что древнерусское слово для холма не холм а хълмъ (хелме). Название тогда должно было быть "Хелмеграде" ("хелме" и "граде", так как в древнерусском языке было не типично оканчивать слово на согласную), а вот "holm", "holmr" или "holmi" в то время обозначало островок на языке варяг (древнескандинавский), но не обозначал "холм" на языке местных славян. "Gard" (сокращение слова garðr) обозначало укрепление или крепость. Древне русский язык похож, но одновременно очень отличаетсья от современного языка.
Because the ancient russian word for hill is not holm but хълмъ (helme). The name then should have been “Helmegrade” (“helme” and “grade”, since in the Old Russian language it was not typical to end a word with a consonant), but “holm”, “holmr” or “holmi” at that time designated a small island in the Varangian (Old Norse) language, but did not mean “hill” in the language of the local Slavs. "Gard" (short form of garðr) meant fortified position or fort. The ancient russian (old east slavic) language is similar, but at the same time very different from the modern language@@comment6864
@@petrygebliebenerschlagerfan67 Serbian lenguage have some synonyms for word hill (brdo, hlm hum,breg(similar to Swedish berg )). Gard or Slavic(Serbian) grad means city or fortress on hill.
HOLMGARD-HUMGRAD-FORTRES ON HILL
Boston was the first capital of Russia confirmed
Holm does not mean an island, it means "hill" actually. Gorodische does not bear a past time sense, it simply means "settlements", with common -sche suffix like in many other slavic nouns.
In slovene we say gradišče and it refers to an ancient fortified settlement.
holm is the Russian root for a small hill, not an island, though of course an island may well have a hill on it.
In Serbian the old term HELM was any elevated terrain. The words are probably related. An island would logical be a 'holm' because it is a piece of land protruding or raising from the water.
@@gideonros2705 Perhaps.. but it's a stretch, because never in Russian is holm used to mean anything other than a small hill. In fact you can have a holm on an island (island = ostrov), the implication being NOT the entire island.
Holm is actually small island in Swedish and many other Germanic languages. In Proto-Germanic the word was hulmaz which was borrowed into Proto-Slavic and became holm in the sense of hill.
@@glaz5228 Exactly, they are trying to apply foreign words to Russian typography. It was mentioned that holm is an island, but in Russian it is not! I figured out of course that it is likely in Swedish, etc.
@@comment6864 in Swedish, Danish and Norwegian a Holm is a small elevated hill. The Danish Island of Bornholm is called so because it's like a small "Holm" in the Baltic sea. And the Born is because it is where The Burgundians originated from. Or Borgunderne as we call them in most Nordic languages. But Serbia should be thankfull that we gave them culture!:)
Thank you for sharing your work 💙🙏
I love your content, keep it up! Have you considered doing any videos on the different Baltic tribes? I'd love to see a video on the Yotvingians or maybe the Baltic Prussians!
all information in this video half mismatch and half fake!!!!!
What a great video, the odds are some of this is correct and your narration and editing is excellent, I hope you get the chance to make many more, well done 👍
English: „Island compound“ ☝️🤓
Norse: „Holmgard“ 🪓🗿🛡
A better English translation would be keygarden
Or Islecester
Holmgrad = hill town in Slavic
Rygsack=Ryggsäck
New viking theoretic here. Vikings got to thank slavic tribes for finding America prior to Columbus! Vikings were traveling around and robbing local villages, but at some point few communities united and kicked their butt so bad that they have jumped in their drakkars, missed beloved fjords and paddled all the way past Atlantic ocean! Skol ёпта!))
Slavic tribes and Nordic Svea were genetically indistinguishable at the time.
@@daseapickleofjustice7231 да и сейчас, только в зависимости о каких славянах речь идет, русские например Северо-Европейцы с небольшим влиянием Южной Европы
Hello from Novgorod!❤
I don't understand why we always had so few tourists here. The city itself is in 2 hours ride from Saint-Petesburg and you can personaly see everything that was in this video: Kremlin, Gorodishe (we call it Rurikovo Gorodishe or Gorodishe of Rurik), Peryn, and many-many more. Be our guests!
I will certainly come one day. Greetings from Slovenia!
I love your voice and the history you tell! ❤ Thank You my brother!!! 🙏
wow that's interesting! thank you so much 🙏
It is crazy how words for city and new are so similar in Scandinavian languages and Slavic languages.
That's because of both languages descent from Indoeuropean and maybe also geograpical proximity and because of mutual interactions and influences on to each other, which led to the point that they didn't diverge more from each other like other Indoeuropean languages.
In slavic languages "grad" can be used on a lot of "enclosed" areas. A vineyard is called "vinograd" in Serbo-Croatian for example and the verb "graditi" can be translated to "building". 🙂
little addendun: This word still exists in other germanic languages, just with another meaning.
It's "Garden" (English), "Garten" (German) and this probably stems from the fact that a garden would also often be somehow enclosed. And there is also the word "guard" in English and "Garde" in German (which is used for honor guards)🙂
When i was learning some swedish as a russian, i noticed a few surprising overlaps in vocabulary, it goes beyond just broad terms, everyday objects, descriptions of times etc. It's quite fun to discover this stuff.
@@goranatanasovski6463garden in Russian is "ogorod".
@@lukdhguirg7121 Makes sense, in Serbo-Croatian "ograditi" would mean "fencing off" something and "ograda" the fence itself. So "ogorod" would be the area that is fenced off.
Hi there, I want to add the we Slovenes still exist, we only moved from Russia to Slovenia. We know that we contributed to the founding of Novgorod state, but for some reason this topic is forbidden among the public as well among the historians both on the slovenian side as well on the russian side. About names, Gorodishe, Gradishe in slovenian means a fortified settlement sorounded by a palisade and ditches. Holm is a hill, Gorod, Grad is a settlement or a fortification, Novgorod is Novigrad meaning new town. Pozerie, Pojezerje meaning lake side.
No. Slovenians in Nowgorod spoke East Slavic. Not South Slavic.
@@berserk9085 Are you Russian?
@@darkobozic6831 Yes. And?
@@berserk9085 Russians by default reject any connection with Slovenians.
@@darkobozic6831 Why? Never heard of that.
Surprisingly it was a great documentary, well done. It is so hard to find a decent and non biased documentary on the Slavic culture. I would like to add a few points though:
1) Gorod/grad did not initially mean a city, it's basically a fortification like "castle" (a wooden castle) where Knyaz resides with his druzhina.
2) Holm means "a hill" so holmgorod is just a fortification on the hill. So Rurik just built a new fortification after Holmgard, that's why it's named "new fortification".
3) There was a city of Slovensk according to the chronicles in the place of Novgorod, established ~ 3k BC. So Rurik came to Slovensk and established Novgorod ( built a new castle).
Thank you for the interesting video. 👍
Great video. Very enjoyable.
Another good video, but I would love to see you tell more stories like the Beer-Hood one.
the saga readings don't perform well
No, his Moscow centrated (colonial) terminology is badly misleading...
@@adamradziwill lots of misleading stuff in this video
@@adamradziwill Deal with it
@@adamradziwilldon't say anything bad about Moskva. Finnugri word ending with -va means at water. And Moskva means a cow drinking / crossing place. Finns were first living there and later were mixed with Mongolians.
I always learn so much Norse from these vids.
There is a boat trip in Lake Ilmen where you can spot many interesting sights. Novgorod is actually amazing in its history. It should receive more investments and attention but it is kinda forgotten between Peter and Moscow
are there any plans for making a video(s) on finnic populations during these time like the one on the wends?
I’d be very curious about that. I’ve always wondered about the heavy preponderance of haplogroup N extending from Lithuania to the lands much further north east
@@runemasterhariwulfaz5267 ive read that a couple estonian archaeologists and historians agree with the theory of finnic conquerors conquering the baltic and thus spreading the N haplogroup via rapes. those same articles say it happend within a generation likely.
this and some other archeological and linguistic evidence may also point to an extremely shortlived (feudal) state (some even say that the myths of kaleva and his sons are from this time period, and that the person who inspired kaleva was the leader of this state), which covered most of the baltics and possibly even mälar area in sweden (evidence points to a finnic elite population, nicknamed mälar finns, living and ruling over a small part of sweden for a short amount of time before being assimilated)
granted, this is all speculation and theory, but its just some ive read
unite Baltics in a horisontal-democratic autonomous anarcho-syndicate and we talk xD
@@TicketLicker what?
@@dasarath5779 this makes sense. From what I’ve seen haplogroup N showed up very rapidly around 500 BC. It is interesting that Lithuania and Latvia retained a proto-Indo-European language and many other areas maintained a Uralic one
This was an excellent video. There is so much content. Thank you.
[I believe that some of the wheel of time lore must have been inspired from this history.]
all information in this video half mismatch and half fake!!!!!
An excellent and interesting account of a complex period.
In Denish From the vikings.
Holmgard , Holmgaard or Holmgård.
Part 1. Holm = Mening place near water.
Part 2. Gard Means Farm.
Farm near water. With time could evolve into a town and be used for last name/ sure / family name for a person. In Denmark right now we have 1368 people with the sure name Holmgaard. And 65 people with Holmgård :-)
In Russian 1) holm = a hill
2) gard = guard. Basically an all around fortification, which later became a word for the city. But it's meaning is not "a farm" and never was. It's meaning is "guard" = gard. Any fortified or guarded area.
Holm ( "Холм") when spoken in Russian literally means "hill". So it makes sense.
Are there any ship burial monds within the vicinity of that region?
Курганы там везде есть
I can contribute by translating text at 13:55 "Bow to you from Smenka and from Korelina. We come to your village Pitarevo. What do you say? Master, order anything. And I will serve you.
It's easy to understand that Semen Korelin run from his prevoius feudal to new master and want to serve him now.
It is crazy to imagine that humans would be colonizing other solar systems in an unrivaled golden age of prosperity were it not for the lack of a baltic empire 😢
Very interesting study on eastern Scandinavians Baltic origin: "Steppe Ancestry in western Eurasia and the spread of the Germanic Languages’"
Holmegård? Sound awfully *historically Scandinavian*
It really does!
it is Ostrovogard -Holmgard, Ostrovogard is from Westslavic language of polabian slavs/gard is a town, in Scandinavian gard is a small village/. who were colonised that territory they called themselves slovene, not slovane as eastslavic called themselves. Stove that was found in Ruric`s Gorodishche was of westslavic origin ! There are written legends of westslavic that tells about Ruric, Truvar and Suvar who went to east to Russia to rule over local tribes.
@@kimrizo1938 The evidence points towards the Wendish material culture, religion, and genetics. Maybe the nomad Turks were so impressed with the Wendish prince-horse-masters in the Eastern European plains they called them khans.
khan,knjaz(king),korol(karl),tsar(cesar) were loaned from different languages@@that1metalhead792
Holm is from Serbina Hlm and it means Hill
The Varangian name of the city Holmgård (Holmgarðr or Holmgarðir) is mentioned in Norse Sagas as existing at a yet earlier stage, but historical facts cannot here be disentangled from legend. Originally, Holmgård referred only to the stronghold southeast of the present-day city, Riurikovo Gorodishche. Archeological data suggests that the Gorodishche, the residence of the Knyaz (prince), dates from the middle of the 9th century, whereas the town itself dates only from the end of the 10th century, hence the name Novgorod, the "new city", from Proto-Slavic "Новъ" and "Градъ" (Nov and Grad), although German and Scandinavian historiography suggests the Old Norse term Nýgarðr, or the Old High German term Naugard. The first mention of this Nordic or Germanic etymology to the name of the city of Novgorod (and that of other cities within the territory of the then Kievan Rus') occurs in the 10th-century policy manual De Administrando Imperio by the Byzantine emperor Constantine VII.
The Varangian toponym Holmgard means Islet town or Islet grad, and there are various explanations for why they gave this name. According to Rydzevskaya, the Norse name is derived from the Slavic Holmgrad which means "town on a hill" and may allude to the "old town" preceding the "new town", or Novgorod. Truthfully, the meaning of this Norse toponym, "island garden", has no satisfactory meaning. According to Rydzevskaya, the Norse name is derived from the Slavic "Holmgrad" which means "town on a hill" and may allude to the "old town" preceding the "new town", or Novgorod - for the aforementioned reasons. The city's origin is West Slavic and has sisterly relations with the city of Starigrad, not to mention that all findings of Norse making are items of trade, whereas the Slavic items are domestic produce, the same is seen in R. Gorodische. Herberstein did, in fact, dismiss the idea of the Norse origin of the Rurikids (he states that there is no reason for the Russians to invite foreigners to govern them), and he distinguished them from the Wagrians - whom he had specifically attested as Slavs, the same is repeated in a 1417 Latin manuscript of the Rurikid genealogy where they're attested as a "Wendish" ruling family. Furthermore, I suggest the work of Matti Klinge (The Baltic World) on the matter, he, just like Herberstein, states the same.
Novgorod was built upon a previous settlement known as Gorodishche or Gradishche and was ruled by Ilmen Slovenes. After the unification with Varangian Slavs or Vagrians from current area of Poland and Germany, who ruled over the city of Stargard or "Old City" (Gard meant "City"; surrounded area, like Garden... with "fences"), they moved their capital city to Gradishche and was called New City or Novgard or Novgorod. This is why Varangians or Vagrians were never Vikings, who were simply Jarl tribes.
Novgorod was built in the place of the town Slovensk which originated at ~ 3k BC.
He was not a foregner, Varangians were russoslavic.
Incredible video, precise research. Thanks!
Do you may do a Video of the Ushkuyniks?
Sorbs are western slavs from Germany and the Germans still call them wendishe while they call themself serby.. So wend is probably a German word for slavs
They are Luzitza Serbs, so Serbs not Slavs. Wends is other name for all Serbs that live there used by forigners.
Wends truly mean Slav in German! correct (Slav) from Sloven(free, ruled without a lord -king,not slava the glorious!!!
@@acfdoo830 Sorbs not serbs
@@letecitoster3469its the same, depends of dialect
I live in Holmgård, Sweden 👍🏻
idgaf
@petter5721hello from viking dublin Ireland. Skol
Roslagen?
@@erikperik1000 🤣🤣 don't give them good ideas they already belive the most bizare "lore"🥴😂
Hello from Novgorod (Holmgard) ✌❤
Most goated channel how can I help also do more kharazan vids
6:58-7:13 that is such a fascinating practice and theories!!!
Can you provide a source for that elder futhark runic inscription you mentioned? That artifact is of extreme interest to me
Viking Rus - Wladyslaw Duczko
@@balticempire7244 thank you very much!
Initially at least according to one founding legend of Sloven and Rus, Novgorod was initially called Slovensk. Ilmen lake was also called Slovene sea.
Озеро называлось ИЛМЕР и никаких словен не было пока не пошел к ним скандинав Олег- Хелг -Одд - Феодор КОНУНГ
The background music makes it feel like I'm playing Morowind......
time to break out my xbox....😅
Давным, давно, мне один швед сказал, что у него странное ощущение, что он в России чувствует себя как дома в Швеции. Что в Германии или в другой стране у него никогда не возникало таких ощущений. Он спросил меня, почему так? Я сказала, что не знаю. Много лет спустя, я поняла почему. Потому что это зов предков, зов крови и генетическая память.
another linguistic link between novogorod and western slavs is the often disputed naming of the "ilmen slovenes" slovenes also being the name of the slavs who have settled in modern day slovenia, and slovenia often being bearing closer similarities to western slavs than the southern slavs.
Yes, aexactly.
Thanks! Lot here in the English speaking world don't easily have access to information like this.
Thank you much, Baltic Empire! You are working under a very interesting and underrated things. I always thought, that it would be really cool to have a kind of "northern europe" history channel💯
Is there a link between Perun/Peryn and the Finnish curseword: Perkele?
Would be very funny if true, but probably just false cognates
comes from perkuna, baltic god of thunder. so if perun comes from that, then ye
Perun= P(o)r(u)n,=P(o)r(t),P(o)r(k)=f(o)r(k)=the god of piercing=thunder,Thor(n) thorn=horn etc
+1 for Morrowind soundtrack!
Gorodische means “mighty city” not “new city”. Makes sense that it was a forestress given the name and strategic location at the mouth of the river.
@@chriselliott4621 Gorod means city and originates from proto Slavic for a protected or fortified place. Nov does indeed mean new. Gorodische translates to a “might fortress” or “might town”. Not disputing that it’s the original settlement, just want to add some clarity.
@@bigboy379not might, but big.
No, it means the place of a city, in this sense it means the place of a city that no longer exists. Just like pozharische is a place of pozhar, and stanovische is a place for stan.
@@ChirkunovIvan it have both meanings
The most ancient capital of Gardarica (or Gardarikka/Gardarikki) is a small city of Ládoga (Algéidiuborg). It is THERE where Ruric/Rurik/Rorik began his career as the sovereign of the future Ruthenia. There are still the remnants of the stone fortifications consisting of the three towers and two segments of the wall between them; all five fragments in relatively good conditions.
Vineta, northern Venice. Now this city is called St. Petersburg. - petro polis - stone city. ancient city in the north. hence the Wend people - the old name for the SlavIc.
Very nice !!! I'm from here!!! 👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿🦁🦁🦁
I would like to correct some slavic pronunciation: "o" is pronounced the same as in "corn" or "cold", not as "a", and there is a letter in the alphabet "щ" that is pronounced "shch" fully, rather than grouped together such as would be in English. Otherwise great and thorough video, thank you for composing this information!
Depends. In modern Russian, о at the start of most multi-syllabic words has been shortened to а or even a -schwa.
But it used to be pronounced fully, so maybe it makes sense when quoting directly.
For the purpose of describing it though, whichever sounds best in English is the best to use. Flows better
Love the morrowind music!
I had never heard of this before as a Russian Capital. I always assumed it was Novgorod prior to the establishment of the "Kievan Rus" with Kyiv as the Capital. I can understand the name and existence of it given the strength of Scandinavian influence at that time. Nice finding something new !!
Bernard Mees among the latest authors showed than Scandinavian runes appeared from the north etrusscian letters. Venetians lived there. There is also similarity between Scandinavian and Siberian runes. Danish historians found that Odin, who brought the runes, was actually Attila
Ilmen is a Balto-Finnic word and the oldest Balto-Finnic scriptures were found there and ancient Karelians constituted an important part of the population, but of course, no mention of them here.
Even today the lake is called Ilmajärvi in Finnish. We have, for example, a river called Ilmajoki.
ilmen is also a turkic word hmm i wonder if it is even more ancient word@@erkkinhowhat does Il mean ?
ilmen means Land Man or in better words it means citizen , il means homeland in Turkic@@erkkinho
@@emrecanarduc4378 Ilma means air in Finnish and is common in place names. No way the name is Turkic.
Finnic were living there first. Give it back to us.
14:35 Is the ''population of Novgorod'' correct to refer to Ilmen Slovenians (novgorod slavs)?
Slovenci :D
Original text in Primary chronicles by monk Nestor says Ilmen Slovene and not Slavs. Slovenes are Slavs, but not all Slavs are Slovenes only Slovenes from Slovenia and Slovakia call themselves like that.
@@darkobozic6831lol, in Russian chronicles the Ilmen Slovenes and Slavs are named the same. Slovenia. Slavs is a book term from the 19th century.
@@darkobozic6831Thus, we can safely say that the Slovenes are not a separate tribe, but a union of Slavic tribes of the Ilmen region.
@@yourreflection2536 Interesting twist. So you are saying all "Slavs" are basically Slovenes?
There is a Lubshan fortress in Ladoga with very interesting artifacts. Unfortunately, some things are looted by dark archaeologists and sold on ebay
Wtf never heard about Holmgard before. Been living in Russia all my life. Very interesting to learn, thanks a lot!
13:39 I want to say "That looks like a child's homework". Because I bet it's some of Onfim's homework.
bro, make a video about the Swedenborgian faith of Rurikid dynasty. (Wiki is silent on the matter.) Also, Alexander I (Holy Alliance) was murdered because he wanted to reinstall this sacred gamer doctrine, and move the capital to Holmgard (Sweden), but proto-communists did janny option to him. Each of us shall know the truth.
"did janny option"
lmao checked.
@@kirillholt2329 can't beat them become them you know what I mean
proto-communists?...... 😳🧐
Do you have any reading material you can suggest? @blyysm
rave. You not only invented some kind of faith, but you also invented proto-communists.🤦
Holmgard means city on the heal - Holm - холм is heal. Gard -Gorod -город - settlement or city
Novgorod - Noviy Gorod (Новый город) - New City , new town.
Уважаемые авторы канала...а что известно вам относительно сигтукнского похода новгородцев и карел 1187 года. Чем была вызвана такая жёсткая реакция Новгородской республики... Почему новгородское государство уничтожило древнюю столицу Швеции ??? Есть ли трактовки и версии данного похода среди уважаемых специалистов на Западе ?
This is one of the best videos I've seen on YT, fascinating, well researched and delivered with aplomb - thank you!
One thing that occurs to me, given the apparent scarcity of early Norse religious items, is that it could well be that "Norse" culture was seen as fashionable or appealing in some way, and so copied.
Just because you have Norse artefacts doesn't mean you have many Norse.
This would mirror a debate in the UK over the extent of Anglo-Saxon migration in the C5 & 6.
Could I offer one small pronunciation correction to your otherwise excellent English? The word 'comb' is pronounced " kəʊm " or 'kohm'. The 'b' is not pronounced but the 'm' is extended in length - a bit like 'mm' for expressing agreement or consideration.
The pronunciation you used was like the word 'combe', which is Brythonic word for a valley, especially one near the sea.
Or they came from elsewhere or were killed off via war or disease. Only rusty metal would be found via a metal detector. All else buried under meters of earth. Lost to time.
Gorodische is more like a colloquialism for 'big clumsy city' or 'giant city', perhaps 'important significant city', but not old city. Perhaps it is now being interpreted as meaning old, because it was in fact the original, well established city, while Novgorod was the newer one, which is literally what its name means.
Gorodische is "old city" just like kostrische is "old fire place"
@@Truffle_Young_Jr и пожарище. Сгоревшее что-либо. Здание, лес и т.п.
@@Felix1971Mig остатки давнего пожара
@@Felix1971Mig пожарище это большой пожар, также как зрелище это большое или чудовищное представление
@@Felix1971Mig Сгоревшее что-то это пепелище
Gostomysl the ruler before rurik has a wendish name, my speculation is that wends were invited by the Slavs to help their faction take over the Ladoga area, the Finnic peoples invited the Scandinavians to drive out the Slavs
Wends and slavs are one and the same though?
@@koalabear1984 Wends were a tribe of Slavs that lived in what is now northeastern Germany, the Slavic tribes living around Lake Ilmen called themselves Slovenes (called Ilmen Slavs to distinguish them from the modern nationality) or Krivichs
Could the pendant have been Queen Olga or did she come after that period?
After. She was the wife of the son of Rjurik
❤
I think that a lot of the confusion and belief that the baltic area was at this time strictly divided into ethnic areas is a heritage of national romantic nonsense. just like what we today call sweden had areas that was settled by slavic people early on (vendel culture/Wends) so did slavic areas. To some extent i think the cultures both being indo-european with a similar pantheon of gods and similar core components and heritage was easily adopted or assimilated into. I mean just look at the linguistic confusion of the name with Holm gard/gorod, even the language still had similarities that are hard for us today to judge how easy the slavs and the norse inter-communicated. It is also very interesting that the vendel culture main area is smack in area with the most "slavic" N1c DNA. So what came first, the hen or the egg?
No confusion what so ever, the swedish thing is made up in the video. The word that should be used is 'grad' (same meaning as 'gorod'). 'gard' is a purely germanic (and i guess swedish) suffix that has absolutely no relevance to these Russian cities.
At 8:20 that word 'urr' also sounds similar to the Hungarian word for power 'erő'.
I'm guessing that's the one that's supposed to be the same word so it's interesting why it would be similar. (oh and 'úr' also means man)
I notice these similarities with all sorts of languages allegedly completely unrelated.
Now i want to play Morrowind...
11:30 IIRC the Angles were a tribe from Jutland. Some of them migrated to Britain along with Saxons and Jutes.
Angles did not live in Denmark, no evidences!
@@kimrizo1938 They came from Angeln in present Denmark.
it is a province in Denmark on the Baltic sea, not the people, just theory.Angles spoke in old Frisian@@AnthonyEvelyn
@@kimrizo1938angels maybe ment fishermen or they may were a clan not a tribe
“Holm” in Russian means little hill
hulmaz > 𐌷𐌿𐌻𐌼𐍃 > xъlmъ > холмъ > холм
Novgorod was built upon a previous settlement known as Gorodishche and was ruled by Ilmen Slovenes. After the unification with Varangian Slavs or Vagrians (according to Adam von Bremen) from current area of Poland and Germany, who ruled over the city of Stargard or "Old City" (Gard meant "City"; surrounded area, like Garden... with "fences"), they moved their capital city to Gradishche and was called New City or Novgard or Novgorod. This is why Varangians or Vagrians were never Vikings, who were simply Jarl tribes. If some "runes" were found on current area of Russia it does not mean they were of "viking" (old swedish) origin. Actually this script known as "runes" at least 10 000 - 20 000 years older... even Turks were using it, not only Slavs. You can even find traces of them in old Vinca script, Kamyana Mohila (Ukraine), Africa, even pre Columbian America... I have successfully translated many inscriptions from Ladoga area into Slavic and nobody even tried to touch those inscriptions or translate them into any similar to Slavic...If we leave the "Slavic", "Germanic" nationalisms behind... rulers were generally intermarrying among different noble, rich families, for them there did not exist important claims as "slavic, germanic"... for them existed rather "from this or that noble family"... There remained more than 500 slavic or "wendic" words in current Swedish language and no other way around in current Russian. Period. And Rus simply means Rusast (try to translate this word through slovenian ) which means "red".
I aways thought that Ladoga was the original Russian site. Both, the town and the river.
Holme might be islet rather than island. At least in modern usage.
a holme, technically, is an island in a river or lake
it was just a translation of Westslavic name Ostrovogard for that settlement There were also normans who came with Varangs-Rus with Ruric and his brothers to Ilmen region from Pomerania. Later they went to Kiev and served Russian kings as guards. Norwegian genes were found around Kiev City. @@meikala2114
@@meikala2114 I know many islets in the Baltic that are named xxx-holmen.
Holm in Russian means hill, not island. Island is ostrov
@@comment6864 That is interesting. Do you know the etymology?
Imho, Holmgård appears in Scandinavian sources and the name comes from when there was still Scandinavian influence on the old Rus. So it is worthwhile to examine holm in old norse as an origin of the name.
I hear morrowind
Ikr I cried a little so many memories
A holm in Russian language means a hill. A grad in Russian is the same as a gorod i.e a town/city. The word 'grad' has slavic roots but the word 'gorod' has ancient Russian roots. Novgorod is Russian name. Holmgrad is slavic name, which could have meaning hilly city/town, ot city/town on the hill.
I am surprised people do not know about the Vikings called the Ros.
“Holmgard” could be a mistransliteration of “holmgrad” which means in the Slav languages “city of hills”
THANK YOU!! 😄
It means hillcity
@@milolekic
Hillburg 🙃
@@egorkor9766 there is Hillsborough in England
not city of hill. "A city" on the hill. A singular fortification on a singular hill.
To Holmgard and beyond
That's where the winds will us guide!
@@AustinWK-iv2jb HUH?? Are you ok??
incredible
Its holmgrad . Many ancient cities of Slavs and Rus ended with grad meaning city .
Always interesting to learn more of the connections of West and East in history. I find Varagnian history underrated compared to the viking history in the West. That said I need to read more of the Vikings, these vids are good primers. Medieval Russian areas are also an interesting mystery. As far as I am aware the Novgorod would become a much more western town with ties to Hanseatic League and all whereas Muscovy was almost converted to Islam after the centuries since the Viking Age. There are divides in culture still seen today and it is about the way of thinking. The Russian system is still largely clan based, not fully individualistic, and based on custom more than actual law. The system is more medieval in a sense, but of course progress is a matter of perspective. What is sad that the modern nationalistic keyboard warriors tie their identity to ancient history so discussion of these matters tends to be sometimes very silly online. Anyway great stuff. Cheers!
You are wrong about Islamization under the control of the horde. attempts of this kind, after the Mongols adopted Islam, were made only by small fry, who were quickly exterminated, in many ways this was done by the people of the khan himself, because, despite all the horrors that the nomads brought to these lands, they treated the religions of the subordinate peoples quite well, without collecting taxes from churches at all. As for some clan systems in modern Russia, this sounds like outright nonsense
Varangians are vikings from varanger Norway as in varanger garden, people from there are still called væringer today the rus viking's are the Varangians
13:31 Could the opposite be truth? Could've Waldemar came from Vladimir?
That's exactly what's happened
Слово Владимир состоит из изначальных русских слов - володеть-владеть и мир. Владимир значит Владеющий миром. Как и имя Ярослав. Яр-значит ярило- солнце, слав-значит славить - восхвалять. Ярослав значит - славяший солнце. Мы поклонялись Солнцу и оно было нашим Богом
@@user-go6qw5ug5wYaroslav can be translated also as earl of the Slavs!
the first Scandinavian Valdemar, was the grandson of Prince Vladimir Monomakh.
@@user-go6qw5ug5w на самом деле, это "народная этимология". Владимир не значит "владеющий миром". Раньше окончание было не "мир", а "мер" (только через ять, а не букву е), это родственно готскому mer. Соответственно, это значит "великий в своей власти". Аналогично все остальные имена: Яромир - великий в своей ярости (а не яростный миром, это просто чушь какая-то), итд. То, что кто-то из славян поклонялся Солнцу достоверно не установлено - хотя это и возможно теоретически, в наше время эти представления пошли от неонаци, которые онанируют на свастику. В действительности, славяне поклонялись примерно тем же индоевропейским богам, что и все остальные, от греков до скандинавов: громовержец Перун (аналогичен Тору и Юпитеру), итд.
I find cunning the name made of both slavic Holm (hill) and scandinavian Gard
Holm holme means a tiny island can also be a floating island in a lake gard means both farm ranch and homestead but when using the word today people mean farm most often in Norwegian the rus viking's from varanger in Norway named varanger garden and also called væring væringer even people today from that area of Norway is called væringer they are the same people as the varangian guard who defended the Roman empire until the Romans tried to expand into the Nordic lands of Norway and Sweden which turned them against the Romans and brought down most of the Roman empire, Ruriks farher was from varanger and he's mother was daughter of a swedish Earl or jarl as nordics say.the Norwegian rus viking's which the slavics mainly calls Varangians because the rus viking's was Varangians because they were from varanger.they established kievarus more than thousand years ago,i think it was around 800 i don't remember because this is fifth grade history in Norwegian history in Norwegian children schools maybe fourt grade and we don't emphasize much history before year 800 .
Væring in Norwegian is not connected to one single place in Norway. There are many places along the coastline where the inhabitants are called væring. It simply means a place along a fjord where fishermen (or people ) lives. When the norse traveled inland along the rivers eastwards, they could easily had refereed themselves as people from the coast: Væringer. And this would then became the word that the people already living there used for them
Hi everybody from Russia 👋👋
sup bro
If you allow. Hum or Hlm represents a small hill, Kurgan, Sopku. Gard is actually the word Grad, which represents bigger place to live. Before the Ottomans, the Balkans name was Hlm, or Hum. German historiography in national awakening and "drang nach osten politik", began to use the name Balkans in the 19th century, explaining that people came somewhere from the swamps of Ukraine (all 350 million of them today :)) to the Germanic region belonging to the Roman Empire. Before that, Illyricum was used, but due to the joint struggle of Catholic Serbs or Croats and Orthodox ones, who wanted, like the Hungarians, to get out of the Habsburg Monarchy, it was forbidden. Let me remind you that the Serbs (Sabrat or Sarmat in the written form actually means brothers or relatives) as a people were later called Illyrians in order to (by the Catholic Church and the Jesuits of the 17th century) erased the connection with the orthodoxy of Byzantium. Otherwise, the Illyrians were only one of the tribes that came into contact with Rome, and they named the whole province after him. Let me also remind you that the Lusatian and Pomeranian Serbs/Vendes-Vandals (on whom Germans committed the first written genocide in the 11th century when Arkona fell), have been fleeing to the east for centuries. They were presented as Variags, people who knew the Germanic or Viking way of fighting. They are the ones who organised and defeated Germanic Vikings in the Battle of Novgorod, who defeted decided to sail to the west. Rjurkovici belong to those Variags. The tribes of Bodric (Obodritae), Ljutica (Vilke) are the basis of Variags. Check out Limes Sorabicus.
In which sources can we see the Balkans were called Hum or Hlm;One of the slavic place name is Helmos(Helm).and its translated from old slavic mountain without trees! Which it is! Very interesting and truth sounding your theory of the Wends Sorbians moving to the the east as refugees of the German massacre!Maybe also the name changed after the arcona massacre to Sorbs/Serbs!Serbs were transfer first to Greece by "east Roma "/Byzantium,in Kozani and and got an independent state!Serbs in had a kral (carl/ceasar) in difference from Slavic tribes who had a zupan as a leader!Also to add Varangians is a slavification of the word Frank (ians)!
serbian propaganda at its finest XD
@@letecitoster3469 you may be right but good propaganda ,hide many times jewels of truth!
I aways thought that Ladoga was the original Russian site. Both, the town and the river. Also, "Holmgrad" would be more interesting and closer to Russian name. Literally means town on a hill. Just a thought.
One of the coolest sounding place names in world history. Top 5 easy
the author is trying to find the truth and history about the city of Novgorod.. but at the same time pinned fake information.
the author, if Novgorod is not Russia... why did the Russian tsars have the title of tsar of Novgorod?
The full title of Ivan the Terrible at the end of his reign sounded like this: “By the grace of God, the Great Sovereign, Tsar and Grand Duke John Vasilyevich of All Rus', Vladimir, Moscow, Novgorod, Tsar of Kazan, Tsar of Astrakhan, Tsar of Pskov, Grand Duke of Smolensk, Tver, Yugorsk, Perm , Vyatsky. Bulgarian and others, Sovereign and Grand Duke of Novagorod of the Nizovsky land, Chernigov, Ryazan, Polotsk, Rostov, Yaroslavl, Beloozersky, Udora, Obdorsky, Kondiysky and others, and the ruler of all Siberian lands and the Northern countries, and sovereign of the land of Bethlehem and others.”
The top comment was pinned in order to answer the question posed within it, you'll find the answer to it in the comment thread
@@balticempire7244 writing in Google "the title of the FATHER (Vasily III) of Ivan the Terrible" and
Vasily Ivanovich was born in 1479. After the death in 1490 of the heir to the throne, Ivan the Young, the son of Ivan III from his first marriage, there was a struggle for succession to the throne, from which Vasily III emerged victorious. He was first appointed Grand Duke of Novgorod and Pskov, and then co-ruler of Ivan III, after whose death he ascended the throne without hindrance.
I don't think it was a capital of Russia. Maybe one Rus state but that wasn't a single country
Rus = Russia. And that the state called the Russian Federation, the Russian Socialist Soviet Republic or the Russian Empire claims to represent this nation doesn’t change anything.
1481 there was a Muscovite invasion to Reval
@@karilang9377what does this have to do with it? Moreover, Revel was the Russian city of Kolyvan.
@yourreflection2536 Reval.
Tallinn has been Danish, German, Swedish, Moscoviet, Russian, Soviet Union and before, between and Today Estonian citi.
1481, it was Moscoviets invided Reval. So Russia did not exist at that time.
@@karilang9377 they were then Russian with their main city in Moscow. But since at that time there was still Lithuanian Rus', who, by the way, were also called not Russians but Litvins. And then there was Novgorod, whose residents also called themselves Russians. It was necessary to somehow distinguish them, so they were called by their main cities or by their main people, as in the case of Lithuania.
After all, the Teutons and Prussians were not called Germans either, but that did not stop them from being Germans.
Sound like Хьлм град. Хьлм is old name for Balkan. And it means hill.
These are goths in some form. The hexagon is probably Frej and the hexagonical flower his wife and mother freja. The parents of Tir.
Chill out to all the salty nationalists in the comments, after all we are all Indoeuropeans . ;))))))
It is only Ukrainians who are salty tho because of the title lol
@@bronicage5666Ukraine 😂
Slavic brothers, dont let your enemies to teach you about your history.
slavic brothers (Poles and Ruthenians/Ukrainians) are uniting against moskals
@@thrwwccnt5845
ukraine ?
little russian ?
WTF 😅😂🤣
@@scpgaming-452 moskal detected
In other words he means that slavs should only get their information from Russian state propaganda networks. 🤣
@@thrwwccnt5845 You are not a Slav. You are a slave of the Germanic peoples (Anglo-Saxons, Franks, Normans, Germans and others).
Holm is a widely used danish landscape word for a tiny low peninsula just above water - area of a few acers. Gard or Gård is the word for a farm or dwelling
And gård ,gard, has same origin as now eng. gard meaning :shelter ,protection, and later synonymus with gård (farm).
Holm , can mean sv. holme
or as sl. hill.
Mabye it an integration from people liveframträdanden there.
In russian, "holm" (холм) means hill, "Gorod" (город) - city or town, "ogorod" (огород) - fenced territory for farm and literally means something was dedicated and separated from other territory.