Lustria is second only to the Old World in its importance to the Warhammer world. I love that continent. Love the Amazons too and their whole space age technology angle (one of my favorite little details is that on the blades wielded by Anakonda's Amazons' you can see powerfield generators as featured on 40k power swords), I really wished GW had done more with them - like, roll them into the Lizardmen army book or something. Though I appreciate that they're still going strong in Blood Bowl, if nothing else. Though it should be pointed out that Amazons still received minis post Oldhammer days and were featured in rules and lore well into 7th edition - they were not dropped from the setting as early ( if at all ) as a lot of people asume.
Shame you skipped over The End Times - which saw the Slaan return to their silver ships and flee the doomed world (reappearing in the Age of Sigmar). A nice nod back to some of the early Lustria & Slaan lore, bringing everything full circle. Very interesting that Lustria in it's original form actually has many thematic parallels to Necromunda - "gangs" of adventurers plundering long abandoned ruins in search of ancient lost technologies / loot - with Amazon & Norse picking up guns & power weapons (who themselves parallel Escher & Goliath). The Slaan were always a nice idea as a fallen civilization from space, and early Warhammer was never a pure fantasy setting - but the models never really worked until they made them big fat bloaters getting carried around on their palanquins.
Maybe someday The Old World will get a big Lustria expansion. I'll keep enjoying my Lizardmen regardless, but it would be the perfect time to introduce the Amazonians as a mercenary Regiment of Renown.
(Lustria and) Lustria's Lizardmen never felt like Warhammer Fantasy to me because the Lizardmen lived so far away from everyone else (except for Skaven) and never moved (similar to the Wood Elves) and normally only fought if someone came to them (Skaven excluded). So although not as bad as the Wood Elves or Tomb KIngs (nobody is as bad as the Tomb Kings), lorewise the Lizardmen had only very few armies to fight. Daemons (every-one can fight daemons), Dark Elves, The Empire, High Elves, Skaven and if we are being very generous, Vampire Counts. Six (6) armies to fight out of fourteen (14). Probably five. (Before we have any-one complaining, although Bretonnian sailors go to Lustria, Bretonnian knights never do, and it is impossible to make a Bretonnian army without knights.) So a lot of the time, Lustria felt as much of Warhammer as Nippon did. Don't get me wrong, I don't want Lustria and the Lizardmen to be removed but they just don't seem to be relevant. (Of course, there is a less relevant faction.)
My first ever White Dwarf was 206, which had the Lizardmen on the front cover, so they were the first thing I ever knew about the Warhammer Fantasy world - and even though I've always been more of a 40K guy, they've always had a place in my nerdy heart ever since. Thanks for satiating the lust for Lustria of this old Slaan-fan!
The world map you used at 22:30 (ish) is the one I have hanging over my desk at home! I got it laminated back in the 90's and have carried it around with me ever since. Even when I'd "been on hiatus" from the hobby for 20+ years that map kept the flame alive for me.
Another fine video, Jordan. In fact, your history videos are some of my favorite Warhammer content on this platform. I'm ahsamed to admit in my spotty on-again off-again relationship with Warhammer Fantasy I really didn't even know what Lustria was. If I encountered the name before your channel, I don't remember doing so as my group, whether in roleplaying or wargaming, was always fixated on the Old World. So this was a great education for me!
Well that was a delightful stroll down memory lane! I still have a load of the original Amazon miniatures and they still are lovely, but very small compared to modern ones. Yes, the Pygmy aspects of the hanging gardens scenario have not aged well! I’ll admit that passed me by at the time but it shows that we all grow and get better. Although with some work to change the characters I reckon it could still make a fun scenario.
5th Edition Lizardmen Saurus Warriors were my first Warhammer miniatures. 11 years old at the time. I saw Lizardmen on a citadel miniature gallery website during that time. I was fervent dinosaur enthusiast so Lizardmen were a no brainer. Even though Dwarfs 6th were my first army book, it was Lizardmen 6th army book and Lustria that were Warhammer to me. I think due to that Warhammer is 40 years, I think it would be fun to run a homebrew Warhammer 1st Edition campaign in a quasi-south american science fantasy setting. I dig that the pre-5th edition Lizardmen being more like reptilian greenskins/skaven!
There were some rules to add sci-fi weapons in one of the really early journals. Not sure if it was 1st or 2nd. 3rd edition has the basic ruleset to RT so plenty of things from both games can simply be combined.
Fantastic video. I just watched a video yesterday that talked about the Pan-American Highway, so that was a surprise to hear it pop up in yours today. Lustria always seemed like a very rich setting.
Talking about forgotten or lost races. I would love to see a video about the Femirs. A race that have always been strange to me. And mostly known to me from Heroquest
As a player of the game that has both an Amazonian and Slann pre-slotta armies, thanks for the short history lesson much appreciated, especially the resources. I've spread the word to the various facebook pages that take an interest in such things, hopefully they'll come and take a look. Thanks once again
I love your videos on these early days of the Old World and how they developed. After watching your interviews and then seeing this research you've done, the blanks of the early days get filled in. I also like how you pass off your Phase Cat as "continuity errors". Nice try Jordan, but we know your cat can Warp Jump. ❤😂👍
That army box was what made me think I was starting fantasy as a lad. My dad loved the Bretonians and I of course wanted to play a dinosaur army. We built and painted most of the models but it didn’t take much of a look at the rules to realize that we probably weren’t ever going to play the game. We just stuck with the elegant simplicity of 3rd edition 40k. I was 12 or 13 and had learned those and taught them to my dad (probably with some errors) but I don’t think I had a chance of figuring fantasy out on my own.
This scenario design will pop up around that time. It's a miniature wargame but it has character goals and neutral participants and unknown bits moving around.
Very good video as ever. Awesome Lies is amazing and it's great to see you point people that way. I've always wondered who if anyone actually had a Slann army back in the day. My model buying was restricted to what the guy in my local model shop in our small Welsh town chose to get in and I never saw a Slann figure in the flesh. There were hardly any GW shops then though perhaps in bigger places the Slann were available or maybe those who took a liking to them just went for mail order, something that never really entered my head as a child though I did eventually get a mail order Chaos army a bit later. I don't thnik the figures were actually that good with a few exceptions though that might be unfair as having one in your hand is very different to looking at a photo. Don't think that was what sealed their fate in any case though. I do have 60-odd Slann figures in one sense though as I have a 1980s margarine tub in my attic stuffed with the paper cutouts from The Magnificent Sven. Might even get my youngest to colour them in...
Still got all the figures to paint for krelmo and riggs temple,did finish the crew from the magnificent sven,so altogether about 100 plus slann and about 40 amazon's,the norse are finished and play with different rule sets.
I noted your caveat about not being able to include everything, but a shoutout for something left out would be the army in the original Forces of Fantasy 'Book of Battalions'. The Clawed Feet of Mylkbeotl probably features some of the best Azteccy puns. I assume they were Rick Priestley's from a comment he made on your previous Lustria video - if so then I would like him to know they were appreciated along with the many others!
Loving 💞 your *_Oldhammer_* coverage, Jordan;-) BTW: when might we get a 📸 Video on the Alan Blighe 📚 Books: *'TAMURKHAN'* -&- '*MONTROUS ARCANUM'* ❓ (you'd be the best man for the Job!)
Wait so there are a minimum of 2 societies of humans living amongst the lizards, I wonder how intermingled that gets. Like a amazon walking into a skink market
I have probably posted before under one of your videos about how the first game of Warhammer I ever played was 'The Magnificent Sven' and how almost everything from it has gone. Slann, Norse, Amazons, Beserkers, Sven as was, Pygmies etc. With even Halflings being more or less absent Riolta Snow as an Elf is more or less the last woman standing which at least is quite funny in terms of recent Bretonnian-based and 40K rantings from the 'lore' zealots and right-wing nuts. Not sure any of those changes were for the better though I'm OK with Warhammer changing as a rule. I wish they hadn't got rid of the Norse settlers idea and indeed binned the Norse as Vikings thing and lumped them in with Chaos as they seem to have done. Sven himself got rewritten, Dwarfs lost their Berserkers for Slayers which are inferior in my opinion particularly on the model front. Possibly the only positive is losing the pygmies who don't feature in the battle, but are mentioned as having fed a captive Karl Ustracutter his own leg before releasing him on a previous expedition. The only effect of their existence on the game is his reduced movement characteristic if I remember rightly. The WD100 adventure is a brilliant piece of writing whilst also being undeniably racist in its caricatures and tropes, it's a shame they got parts of it so wrong. The naming of some of the figures was also very poor indeed even by the standards of the day. All that said my attachment to the Slann I couldn't buy is a little absurd and I should probably admit that modern Lizardmen models look to me to be some of the best of any of the Warhammer models of recent times. I really do think that as a faction they're much better suited to the current style than almost anything else - maybe some of the Undead stuff would be the only rival. I'd still prefer frogs though as that's what I grew up with, no other justification at all.
Can I ask one question first please Sir? I only recently discovered that the Dwarf race had two male gods who were brothers and they married their sister who went on to have their child, I know that I am late to the party, however at 0:50 into this video I still haven’t heard if this has been changed or if incestuous breeding is still a part of the general Dwarf problem? I am asking because I am a long time fan of LOTR and I now feel sullied by the revelation and now I am glad that I have a natural Orc attitude towards battle in that if it makes a move I should hit it. Thank you in advance, I will now sit still and try not to disturb the class again Sir.
I understand the banging of the drum for the Amazon as a faction but as GW have always done, if it does not sell it does not get made. Amazon clearly didn't sell.
Can someone please put a video out about what " broken" and "blanced" means and why GW has such h a hard time doing that? Why is it so hard to put out a balanced game w/no need for updates and additions and editions!?!? Please, can someone explain thoroughly!?
personally I'm sadder that they eliminated the pygmies, aka jungle halflings, than the amazons, they had much more potential to make them an interesting faction.
The Realm of Zhu blog discuses the GW pygmies and especially the WD100 scenario at length recontextualing them through the lens of afro-futurism. It's a surprisingly interesting read and may just change your mind on what the folks at GW were about. But those miniatures were undeniable horrible...
I always thought the original Slann army list and models were cool. But Lizardmen are incredibly boring. I have to say that was not the best retcon from GW.
I’ve always assumed, but never seen it confirmed, that ‘Skeggi’ is a reference to the U.K. seaside town of Skegness, often nicknamed ‘Skeggy’.
Same. WIth GW's propensity for IRL references (see the black planet of Birmingham), it made sense.
Lustria is second only to the Old World in its importance to the Warhammer world. I love that continent. Love the Amazons too and their whole space age technology angle (one of my favorite little details is that on the blades wielded by Anakonda's Amazons' you can see powerfield generators as featured on 40k power swords), I really wished GW had done more with them - like, roll them into the Lizardmen army book or something. Though I appreciate that they're still going strong in Blood Bowl, if nothing else.
Though it should be pointed out that Amazons still received minis post Oldhammer days and were featured in rules and lore well into 7th edition - they were not dropped from the setting as early ( if at all ) as a lot of people asume.
Check out Warhammer Armies Project. There's a full Amazons Army book free pdf
Thanks for the recommendation for "The Star Boat"! Thankfully the Oldhammer Fiction Podcast has recorded it. What a wild ride.
just crazy how much I learn from GW universe with you !
Shame you skipped over The End Times - which saw the Slaan return to their silver ships and flee the doomed world (reappearing in the Age of Sigmar).
A nice nod back to some of the early Lustria & Slaan lore, bringing everything full circle.
Very interesting that Lustria in it's original form actually has many thematic parallels to Necromunda - "gangs" of adventurers plundering long abandoned ruins in search of ancient lost technologies / loot - with Amazon & Norse picking up guns & power weapons (who themselves parallel Escher & Goliath).
The Slaan were always a nice idea as a fallen civilization from space, and early Warhammer was never a pure fantasy setting - but the models never really worked until they made them big fat bloaters getting carried around on their palanquins.
I love that AoS took a lot of the original Lizardmen ideas and ran with them!
"I was very content with the content of the continent." Amazing! What a line haha, hoping we can also be content at the content of incontinence :)
Maybe someday The Old World will get a big Lustria expansion. I'll keep enjoying my Lizardmen regardless, but it would be the perfect time to introduce the Amazonians as a mercenary Regiment of Renown.
(Lustria and) Lustria's Lizardmen never felt like Warhammer Fantasy to me because the Lizardmen lived so far away from everyone else (except for Skaven) and never moved (similar to the Wood Elves) and normally only fought if someone came to them (Skaven excluded). So although not as bad as the Wood Elves or Tomb KIngs (nobody is as bad as the Tomb Kings), lorewise the Lizardmen had only very few armies to fight. Daemons (every-one can fight daemons), Dark Elves, The Empire, High Elves, Skaven and if we are being very generous, Vampire Counts. Six (6) armies to fight out of fourteen (14). Probably five. (Before we have any-one complaining, although Bretonnian sailors go to Lustria, Bretonnian knights never do, and it is impossible to make a Bretonnian army without knights.)
So a lot of the time, Lustria felt as much of Warhammer as Nippon did.
Don't get me wrong, I don't want Lustria and the Lizardmen to be removed but they just don't seem to be relevant. (Of course, there is a less relevant faction.)
My first ever White Dwarf was 206, which had the Lizardmen on the front cover, so they were the first thing I ever knew about the Warhammer Fantasy world - and even though I've always been more of a 40K guy, they've always had a place in my nerdy heart ever since. Thanks for satiating the lust for Lustria of this old Slaan-fan!
Love the Lustrian flora you have in the background! Great video!
Really love your videos Jordan. The nostalgia is right up my ally. It is so peaceful to watch/listen when painting miniatures :)
This is amazing. I have a huge Slann army I collected in the 1980s and this is really inspiring me.
The world map you used at 22:30 (ish) is the one I have hanging over my desk at home! I got it laminated back in the 90's and have carried it around with me ever since. Even when I'd "been on hiatus" from the hobby for 20+ years that map kept the flame alive for me.
Another fine video, Jordan. In fact, your history videos are some of my favorite Warhammer content on this platform. I'm ahsamed to admit in my spotty on-again off-again relationship with Warhammer Fantasy I really didn't even know what Lustria was. If I encountered the name before your channel, I don't remember doing so as my group, whether in roleplaying or wargaming, was always fixated on the Old World. So this was a great education for me!
Very nice! Give kitty a pat on the head for me. Thanks for the share!!
Really informative and full of aspects I’d either forgotten or completely new to me. As always a wonderful show.
Well that was a delightful stroll down memory lane! I still have a load of the original Amazon miniatures and they still are lovely, but very small compared to modern ones.
Yes, the Pygmy aspects of the hanging gardens scenario have not aged well! I’ll admit that passed me by at the time but it shows that we all grow and get better. Although with some work to change the characters I reckon it could still make a fun scenario.
5th Edition Lizardmen Saurus Warriors were my first Warhammer miniatures. 11 years old at the time.
I saw Lizardmen on a citadel miniature gallery website during that time. I was fervent dinosaur enthusiast so Lizardmen were a no brainer.
Even though Dwarfs 6th were my first army book, it was Lizardmen 6th army book and Lustria that were Warhammer to me.
I think due to that Warhammer is 40 years, I think it would be fun to run a homebrew Warhammer 1st Edition campaign in a quasi-south american science fantasy setting.
I dig that the pre-5th edition Lizardmen being more like reptilian greenskins/skaven!
There were some rules to add sci-fi weapons in one of the really early journals. Not sure if it was 1st or 2nd. 3rd edition has the basic ruleset to RT so plenty of things from both games can simply be combined.
What a great video, Lustria is an excellent setting, I look forward to picking up the cubicle 7 book at some point.
Once again an incredible video, very documented. That's why RUclips is suche a great plateform !
Fantastic video. I just watched a video yesterday that talked about the Pan-American Highway, so that was a surprise to hear it pop up in yours today.
Lustria always seemed like a very rich setting.
Talking about forgotten or lost races. I would love to see a video about the Femirs. A race that have always been strange to me. And mostly known to me from Heroquest
ArbiterIan did a video about the Fimir a while ago. Check his channel
The Fimirs background was even more ‘problematic’ than the Pygmies 😂
As a player of the game that has both an Amazonian and Slann pre-slotta armies, thanks for the short history lesson much appreciated, especially the resources. I've spread the word to the various facebook pages that take an interest in such things, hopefully they'll come and take a look. Thanks once again
Oh wow! I really loved those pygmies hahahahah. Super cool designs.
Another most excellent video 🙂
I want lizardmen back... And Chaos dwarfs.
That's such an awesome book - love to dig it out and have a re-read now and then
I love your videos on these early days of the Old World and how they developed. After watching your interviews and then seeing this research you've done, the blanks of the early days get filled in. I also like how you pass off your Phase Cat as "continuity errors". Nice try Jordan, but we know your cat can Warp Jump. ❤😂👍
There was an Amazon warband for Mordheim. Former slaves released by the fall of the city
Two, 1 during town cryers era, 1 during the fanatic era. And now as said the bloodbowl team which are such great minis.
Love the backstory of the Slann. Bring them back! (for 40k too)
That army box was what made me think I was starting fantasy as a lad. My dad loved the Bretonians and I of course wanted to play a dinosaur army. We built and painted most of the models but it didn’t take much of a look at the rules to realize that we probably weren’t ever going to play the game. We just stuck with the elegant simplicity of 3rd edition 40k. I was 12 or 13 and had learned those and taught them to my dad (probably with some errors) but I don’t think I had a chance of figuring fantasy out on my own.
This scenario design will pop up around that time. It's a miniature wargame but it has character goals and neutral participants and unknown bits moving around.
Very good video as ever. Awesome Lies is amazing and it's great to see you point people that way.
I've always wondered who if anyone actually had a Slann army back in the day. My model buying was restricted to what the guy in my local model shop in our small Welsh town chose to get in and I never saw a Slann figure in the flesh. There were hardly any GW shops then though perhaps in bigger places the Slann were available or maybe those who took a liking to them just went for mail order, something that never really entered my head as a child though I did eventually get a mail order Chaos army a bit later. I don't thnik the figures were actually that good with a few exceptions though that might be unfair as having one in your hand is very different to looking at a photo. Don't think that was what sealed their fate in any case though.
I do have 60-odd Slann figures in one sense though as I have a 1980s margarine tub in my attic stuffed with the paper cutouts from The Magnificent Sven. Might even get my youngest to colour them in...
Love lustria lore, lets do this! For lizardmen!
Still got all the figures to paint for krelmo and riggs temple,did finish the crew from the magnificent sven,so altogether about 100 plus slann and about 40 amazon's,the norse are finished and play with different rule sets.
KREMLO MUST RISE!!! BRING BACK KREMLO!!!
I noted your caveat about not being able to include everything, but a shoutout for something left out would be the army in the original Forces of Fantasy 'Book of Battalions'. The Clawed Feet of Mylkbeotl probably features some of the best Azteccy puns. I assume they were Rick Priestley's from a comment he made on your previous Lustria video - if so then I would like him to know they were appreciated along with the many others!
Kremlo came from SPAAAAACE!
Sounds like centaur propaganda
Its the names that get me, they just when with what ever was funny.
Loving 💞 your *_Oldhammer_* coverage, Jordan;-)
BTW: when might we get a 📸 Video on the Alan Blighe 📚 Books: *'TAMURKHAN'* -&- '*MONTROUS ARCANUM'* ❓ (you'd be the best man for the Job!)
Are you a bot?
Haha, 13:18. We have a city here in Sweden that is named Västervik.
Jordan in the sunlight? Perhaps he's not a von Carstein after all...
Mordheim had a lustria expansion with Amazon's and miniatures. However they were decended from the norse settlers
Wait so there are a minimum of 2 societies of humans living amongst the lizards, I wonder how intermingled that gets. Like a amazon walking into a skink market
Skeggi - are they from Skegness?! haha
Thanks
Friday night fun 🤩
What's with all the Pygmy hate 😢
😂😂😂 she’s checking out the library 😂😂😂
I have probably posted before under one of your videos about how the first game of Warhammer I ever played was 'The Magnificent Sven' and how almost everything from it has gone. Slann, Norse, Amazons, Beserkers, Sven as was, Pygmies etc. With even Halflings being more or less absent Riolta Snow as an Elf is more or less the last woman standing which at least is quite funny in terms of recent Bretonnian-based and 40K rantings from the 'lore' zealots and right-wing nuts. Not sure any of those changes were for the better though I'm OK with Warhammer changing as a rule. I wish they hadn't got rid of the Norse settlers idea and indeed binned the Norse as Vikings thing and lumped them in with Chaos as they seem to have done. Sven himself got rewritten, Dwarfs lost their Berserkers for Slayers which are inferior in my opinion particularly on the model front.
Possibly the only positive is losing the pygmies who don't feature in the battle, but are mentioned as having fed a captive Karl Ustracutter his own leg before releasing him on a previous expedition. The only effect of their existence on the game is his reduced movement characteristic if I remember rightly. The WD100 adventure is a brilliant piece of writing whilst also being undeniably racist in its caricatures and tropes, it's a shame they got parts of it so wrong. The naming of some of the figures was also very poor indeed even by the standards of the day.
All that said my attachment to the Slann I couldn't buy is a little absurd and I should probably admit that modern Lizardmen models look to me to be some of the best of any of the Warhammer models of recent times. I really do think that as a faction they're much better suited to the current style than almost anything else - maybe some of the Undead stuff would be the only rival. I'd still prefer frogs though as that's what I grew up with, no other justification at all.
Those Heretic Lizard people 😂
Can I ask one question first please Sir?
I only recently discovered that the Dwarf race had two male gods who were brothers and they married their sister who went on to have their child, I know that I am late to the party, however at 0:50 into this video I still haven’t heard if this has been changed or if incestuous breeding is still a part of the general Dwarf problem? I am asking because I am a long time fan of LOTR and I now feel sullied by the revelation and now I am glad that I have a natural Orc attitude towards battle in that if it makes a move I should hit it. Thank you in advance, I will now sit still and try not to disturb the class again Sir.
Stealth Martha!!
COOOOOOOL
17:26 No, they aren't. I dont see a problem here.
I understand the banging of the drum for the Amazon as a faction but as GW have always done, if it does not sell it does not get made. Amazon clearly didn't sell.
Can someone please put a video out about what " broken" and "blanced" means and why GW has such h a hard time doing that? Why is it so hard to put out a balanced game w/no need for updates and additions and editions!?!? Please, can someone explain thoroughly!?
personally I'm sadder that they eliminated the pygmies, aka jungle halflings, than the amazons, they had much more potential to make them an interesting faction.
6:22
The Realm of Zhu blog discuses the GW pygmies and especially the WD100 scenario at length recontextualing them through the lens of afro-futurism. It's a surprisingly interesting read and may just change your mind on what the folks at GW were about. But those miniatures were undeniable horrible...
+1 to this, a great read on the subject
I always thought the original Slann army list and models were cool. But Lizardmen are incredibly boring. I have to say that was not the best retcon from GW.
I gotta get some pygmies. Those look great!