I recorded many tracks using both hardware and software synths, noone cared. I had many hardware synths, so i took a photo of my studio with tons of hardware synths around and everybody went crazy. They could not stop commenting about how great my studio is and how great i "must be" having all this hardware, WITHOUT even asking to listen to any of my music .... So it is the visual appeal. People want to see "professionals" sitting among walls of knobs, switches and flashing lights (this last one is the most important! LOL) ... As years go by, i gradually sell most of my hardware because to me software is easier to use, more cost effective and still NOONE can tell that what they hear is mostly software, they look at my hardware synths and believe that it is the hardware they are listening to ... again, without asking me what i used in the track. So, for me, hardware is helping someone to push a professional image easily. Do i love hardware synths? OF COURSE! YES !!! I love touching the knobs and the switches and the overall tactile experience, but soundwise, they offer no advantage over software. I laugh every time i hear someone say how good analog synths sound in a recording, bypassing the fact that what they are actually listening to is a DIGITAL sample of an analog sound.
When I dove back into Retro Synthwave Music, Mitch Murder quickly become one of my favorites. Hearing his stuff I assumed he HAD to be using a Roland D-50, a Juno of some sort and an 808 for most of his sound. When I did some digging, I believe he is exclusively software based with nothing more than a small, cheap MIDI controller. You'd never know it listening on Bandcamp through headphones.
Owning hardware is about the experience of playing a well-designed, well thought-out instrument with your hands, rather than playing a virtual instrument with arbitrarily-assigned knobs, which you'll almost never have enough of to control an entire VST without your mouse. It's also about getting away from screens (yes I know you can accomplish much of this using things like Push and Maschine) for your jams, and for some people, the entire song making process. At the end of the day, it's about the experience the creator has with them, not about making the sound better proportional to price, or (at least for people who genuinely care about actually using hardware gear) pushing a professional image. Yes it's used as visual appeal in some cases, but a lot of the time the people you see using them genuinely love the experience being hands-on like that can bring. Here's a small slice of my experience: I got a Minilogue for my first piece of hardware. I already owned Komplete 9, Ableton 9 Intro, and a lot of free plugins, so I by no means needed it. But I fell in love with its sonic character, which no VST or hardware had at the time, and above all else, it made me *WANT* to learn sound design. It made the process feel *good*. Miles better than dragging a mouse around, something I had been doing in other contexts since I was 3. So that $500 invested gave me the experience of learning subtractive synthesizer sound design very well (more effective and enjoyable than any school experience I've had with learning music), something to quite literally get a *feel* for the process of making sound, my first real high-quality instrument that I don't need a computer for, and a whole lot of beautiful memories playing around with it with my friends. In the end, one is not superior to the other unless you refine your query down to a smaller scope, such as pure sound creation and cost ratio. But as a whole, the experiences are very different and it really comes down to the value you place on having access to one or the other.
As a hardware guy that is considering switching to software, I really appreciate your video and your message, especially regarding the messaging being forced on new musicians. Thank you.
Totaly agree with you. I consider myself as a beginner and at some point i decided that i definitely need hardware synth, because it will help me making better music. And obviously it is not. It is fun to play and it helped me understand sound design principles better, but overall it did not impact that dramatically on music quality. I finally realized - if you want to make a better music - practice more on the instrument, learn music theory, produce more songs. If you have some spare money - go for private lessons/education, upgrade or bye new pc/mac. Recently i was watching a review of behringer 808-like drum machine and boy oh boy - ableton’s 808 basic kit sounds exactly the same!
Hardware or software price plays very little in the music created. You dont need to know music theory if your using DAWs due midi editing but if you have the time then definitely learn music theory but dont become some one who just plays other peoples music. I didn't know music theory when I started I played by ear and also draw in midi the way I wanted and come up with some of My best work back in 2007.
I picked B as the prologue, but not because I thought it sounded better or more authentically analogue. I picked B because it's slightly out of tune and I felt it more likely to be analog because of that.
I picked a as prologue. I thougt at has more harmonics. But after realizing that it wasnt it was more brighter. And nice brightness is also a character of digital synths and vsts. Ps the synth b was too much out tune for hearing the real little differnce in a same tune.
I have Minilogue XD and I instantly picked B because you can tell how awful on the pitch lol in the end for serious production id rather just go with software at this point, while I still have hardware synths it's only good for off cams stuff firing sounds when you want on your free time enjoying music, so it's good for getting inspiration but worst when you do production (takes so time to set it all up)
Tx man, i really needed someone to be 100% honest about hardware/software, as you said fancy stuff are just luxury stuff. You can make music with whatever you have if you know what to do.
You hit the nail on the head when you compared a hardware synth to a luxury watch or car. Any reliable car will get you from a to b, but it's how you want to choose to get there. Style and luxury vs prudence and conservatory. I could tell the difference between the two comparisons, but I have used u-he's Tyrell and it is SUCH an easy synth to get quick sounds from with very little effort so I get the point. It is certainly food for thought. Thanks for the video.
Good to hear from you, it's been a bit! People are really triggered by the word "luxury" but all it means is you're buying a product that's above the bare minimum to get the job done.
I agree with everything said here. Beginners don't realize that often the gearhead types are really splitting hairs when trying to assess whether some VST is better than a hardware synth, or whether one guitar virtual amp is better than another. The fact that you even have to ask people to guess which is which when doing an A-B comparison like this is the proof of that. Maybe one sounds a tiny bit "better" when soloed and listened to on amazing headphones, but you're never going to notice that miniscule difference in a mix.
I think beginners should (if they already have a half decent laptop PC) buy a $200 Aturia midi keyboard and they get Analog lab V and Abalten lite for free. I started out using a cracked version of Reason 2 and then cupple years later buying Reason 4 and I haven't upgraded in decades.
Was with you until virtual amp, if were talking about sound equipment that's a different story. Amp plugins never sound as good as real amps, that ones less of a debate and more a monetary decision. You really don't need to ask someone to guess about amp sims, its very obvious.
I guessed that the hardware was the second one This is a super important message, thank you for talking about the dangerous waters of start-up costs that surround a new hobby/art form!
Scouts honor- responding before continuing- B had more detuning on the lead sound.. but no clue as I'm not familiar with the hard synth in this case. And in any case the detune sounded intentional as it was in BOTH, but it was deeper in B.
@@VultureCulture OK sorry I posted a reply about three times and RUclips is not saving it nor giving me any errors. Maybe they are going into some sort of approval queue. I'll give it a rest for now and try later.
I am a 100% "in the box" guy. A bit over two years ago, I purchased my first hardware synth, the ASM Hydrasynth Desktop. Up to that point, I had been strictly software based. It turned out, I hardly ever used it. Yes, having all of those knobs was wonderful, I did love the tactile feel of it but, it was harder to understand but, understandable but, the main think lacking for me was the direct connection to my DAW without any of the convenience of having the patch stored within the track, something I had really relied on with AU/VST instrument plugins along with the ability to keep the synth tracks "live" as I tweaked and adjusted those patches across all of the tracks and have those changes stored instantly. In my opinion, if you are going to spend any money on an instrument, spend it on a really good, high-quality keyboard controller and use its knobs and sliders to control your DAW and whatever instrument you happen to be using at the moment. I'm saving my money for either the NI Komplete Kontrol S61, or the Novation 61SL MkIII 61. I could use some advise actually between the two.
I guessed wrong - version A sounded better to me! I think one thing you may be missing in the dawless vs VST discussion is that if you work in IT/Digital and spend the whole workday at your desk, with a computer, you really get fed up with computers and screens. Last thing I want to do after a day's work, is to spend more time with the computer and twiddling virtual knobs. The hardware synths give me an option to play without the computer - and gig easily - once we're able to play live/in a band again.
I've heard this type of comment a few times now, and I have to say it's one of the only persuasive responses I've received. I totally get not wanting to be looking at a screen if that's what you do for work. Hope we can all get back to playing live soon!
I am in IT, stare at screen all day too, but do all my audio 'in the box'. Used to have hardware but don't have the room anymore, and there is the cost factor. I love 'in the box' but can totally understand those who don't want to stare at screen. I do appreciate the hands on fun of a hardware synth, and controllers can be a pain to setup and are never as ideal as hardware with designed controls. Regarding the shoot out, I too thought A was the hardware. Sounded crisper/brighter to me and I just figured that would be the hardware. Tyrell N6 is one of the all time greats of VST synths and free! Definitely not a $1500 (USD?) difference in the quality of sound. Great job on the video/shoot out.
Thank you for your comment! 🙏 The "I stare at a screen all day" defense is the best I've heard for why someone refuses to do in the box, but I still agree with you that it's not that big of a deal.
Looking back at this statement from a year ago, I found it's more about not having to interact with a laptop/pc specifically rather than VST/screen. I have a MPC One now that I equipped with the piano/EP/Organ/synth plugins on sale recently and I don't have an issue with using the touchscreen there with a combination of knobs/buttons. It's now serving as a workstation replacement for me when I need those sounds in my band. Some of my work colleagues and friends don't have an issue with using the same PC/laptop to make music or play games, so it's down to personal preference and some kind of mental block that I developed.
I mean, I totally get it. I'm in the service industry so I'm barely ever looking at screen, so for me there's never been an issue with eye strain or even feeling like "god damnit not another screen" lol But I totally get it.
Thank you, I’ve been preaching this to myself for decades now, I knew I was right but didn’t have all the info until now 🙏. It’s about the sound and how to manipulate it, and then the final product that people listening to it will hear! You could literally make music with a trash can depending on how it’s edited, processed, and recorded for listening.
Hi, I think your message is very correct: hardware synthesizers are indeed luxury items. But you might have mentioned that besides the big price difference there are even consideral benefits to software synths, such as that they are much easier to use presets with (when loading a preset you actually see the knob positions), they are easier to record and edit, they are more feature rich, they take up much less space, there is less hassle with cables, ...
Oh of course! I find it much faster to work with VST's whenever possible, but I know hardware people find it more frustrating, so I elected to avoid going down that road.
Great advice and it's nice to hear the other side of the debate for once. I've owned probably 20-30 different hardware synths and ended up selling all of them at one point or another. I much prefer having money, knowing a few soft synths well enough to make whatever sound I want, and a minimal and uncluttered work space.
The B sounded out of tune (the Lead bell like ) compared with A and as for the B composition, the Sound on the K Prologue damaged the recording because of that detuning, which is a problem for some Prologue models... any comments...Thanks. YUK01
My Prologue mostly stays in tune, but you're right, it was a little flat in this recording. The irony here is oscillators drifting out of tune is the entire point of VCO's. For better or worse it's part of the sound. Just to be clear I don't believe my Prologue is especially out of tune.
I fully agree with your statements. I am 59 yo. Amateur musician playing in cover bands dealing with classic rock (60, 70, 80). I own a Korg MS20 since I was a kid. Still using it and loving it. When I was a teenager and then a student, polysynth were incredibly expensive. I dreamt a lot about a Prophet5 or an OB-X. Then for years I stopped playing, trying to build a career. It didn't work very well. So I got back to music because it's the most interesting thing to do to increase my wellness. After many years now I could buy a huge polyphonic beast, but I preferred to get a new Mac with music software. I can produce my songs with tools that in my youth were forbidden for common people. And I have a lot of fun. So I prefer software synths. I play live with VSTs because hammond and rhodes are much better in software than in any expensive workstation. I have a close friend who is a well-known producer here in Italy, if I want to have fun with a Prophet5 or an ARP Quadra I go to his studio. Jamming with a lot of fun. I strongly suggest to young beginners to start with software. Today's music is 99% self produced in bedroom, when you start. So it's better to face computer issues immediately. Then everyone can buy what he likes, but big polysynths are not needed.
Great video. Super ez for me to hear...the bass synth on B is much deeper and penetrating.... The strings in B have a more diverse less linear/smooth quality which is the character.. These two qualities are always the things I find lacking on vst vs analog.... If your style of music needs deep penetrating sounds that can stand on their own I haven't found vst that can do this near as well as a average or better true analog synth(but I'm desperately hoping for one)... It's why folks like daft punk and stranger things them writers use these old synths because the vst can't get there... Great video though for folks that don't prefer that deeper character... Sadly I was able to hear these differences on my phones speakers... I would cringe far more if I played this thru my KRK monitors... To b fair folks are raving about Arturias Micro V which Bob Moog was involved with... So I need to check that out before I completely dismiss vst
@@VultureCulture honestly for me... My love is deep sounding synth music... I've had the fever for 30+ years... And I've owned tons of hardware and software over the years... And for my style music I love the highest sound quality with unique thick sounds... Vst is just plain hollow unless you fight like heck layering and layering and splicing and even then it sounds contrived. And boy how I wish VST did overcome that hurdle... I have one synth workstation now... It's a Korg Triton extreme w the added VA moss board giving 6 note polyphony virtual analog and 124 polyphony/sampler/seq etc for $1000 used... It kills vst and eats the sound for breakfast... Not quite as good as a real Moog or my old kurweil but it's good enough unless money burns thru my pockets... And it's a workstation so I can really get the bones of a piece going on the workstation in great quality without working all day on a computer screen only to come home and continue on to another one for music making... To me that is most common reason I hear about folks trying to go dawless... People are worn out from computers at their day job and they just want to turn on a piece of equipment and go to down... So I create 75% of a tracks bones on my workstation and then take everything over to the dawn for arranging, mixing, more effects some background vst compliments etc... Now being heavily involved w computers and analog synths I notice one thing... If you have just one decent va or analog multipurpose synth then VST comes alive in a big way... If you layer the 2 live it's magical and truly opens a new world.
Hi great video.. I just wanted tell you that I think you’re right. I’m there with you. I’m changing my live setup to MainStage and 3 controllers now. This is a Reggae show that I’m using layers and splits on every song….Maybe I’m doing it for more reasons than what you’re saying . I have 1Roland fantom and 2 motif xf on my rider and my last show the promoter didn’t have anything that was on the rider. I ended playing the show with with a piano and the first brass I could find. My 3rd keyboard I tried to play it twice, but everything I played was just noise…the next reason is these keyboard are or way too heavy for me and too big for my car trunk.. I remember when I was playing my Kong tritons and I could fit 2 of them in my trunk, with my gig bag and a rock and roller…now I drove my motif and fantom to my home gigs on my back seat.. not cool.. Anyway, I’m there with you… keep up the good work, and thank you…
Great video, I always suspected that, I'm having a blast using many soft synths and I'm able to enjoy the things I create, at the end of the day I get the sounds I like, and even though a more expensive hardware synth could make it a little better, it most likely it will only be different, so not sure that even justifies the difference in price. You rock man!
I'm glad you enjoyed it! Hardware is great but I don't think anyone should feel like they can't make great music without it. What are your favorite soft synths?
@@VultureCulture All my synths are software based, I started with "reason" many moons ago, and I still do stuff on it, but I do like Vital and most of the Cherry Audio synths, I also use a lot of synths on my iPad, a lot; and I'm having a lot of fun in my "me" time, finally after many decades I'm spending some time doing things I enjoy doing, mostly for myself but sometimes I even like the lucky sounds I put together, I have zero training by the way but that did not seem to be an issue; I have a lot of influences thought, a lot, from the original age of elect music.
@@VultureCulture I do not have a favorite synth, I was impressed with Vital though, that's the one that brought me back to pc-based synths, I was more into iPad synths for years, except for Reason and Surge. There is way more variety of user interfaces on iPad synths. I also like interesting presets and a quick way to tweak those. For me it is a matter of having my synths at hand and then bring one and then another (..and another) into the mix, and if I plug each clip at the right place I can create an interesting combination.
I look at this type of thing - focusing on hardware - as a subset of a larger and kinda natural human thing. I like very much that you said "different" here - that's the key. Any assignment of worth towards an artist (of any kind, not just music) based on anything BUT the artist's output is an avoidance of owning up to the fact that all art is an abstraction. So we like artists when they die, when they come from a tough life or overcome amazing odds or disabilities or societal disadvantages, when they use cool tools, when they are sexy or beautiful or give good interviews, when we know tons of other people like them or when we find people who we consider attractive or cool also like them, when we haven't gotten used to them making art in a different way, when we think their product makes us look cool...you name it...NONE of this has anything to with the art. And even then, art is not sports. There's just no such thing as "better."
@@VultureCulture Well personally I liked the VST sounds better in your particular arrangement, but I use my synths in a wholly different way. I accentuate their innate quirks and defaults which doesn't come natural in a VST. The moment someone comes up with a fully functioning VST controller VSTs could become as usable as a HW synth + all the known benefits of ITB. A P-600 or a Micromoog are harder to emulate it seems - or maybe just not worth it in the minds of SW developers. Then there is CV/Gate on synths like the Micromoog which allows for direct interfacing with sequencers and other gear. So we would need CV/Gate "banks" like a Kenton to interface VSTs with external CV Gate gear when desired.. Hope I expressed it clearly enough for readers to make sense of it. I have a type of MIDI controller in my mind that could work but it would probably cost some $$ to implement and be kind of large because it would need a LED screen paired with each knob and fades since functions and layout vary from synth to synth and from VST to VST. The thing I have in mind would assume the layout of whatever synth or efx it is controlling at the moment ergo the size and cost could be substantial while the need for most analog synths would also diminish thus freeing up space and cash. Only a matter of time IMHO till someone makes that effort. I am hanging on to unemulated gear the most. I can also tell you that none of the SEM plugins sound anything like a real Two-Voice. I know because I recorded the hell out of mine which I was forced to sell to pay for repairs and living expenses at the time. The HW version invites atonal use while VSTs always tend to go toward chords and melodies, which I guess most people need most, but which serves my needs a little less. That said there is a great OB-Xa emulation which has total parameter control, letting you use it in ways the original could never be used to make a track - unless you are a sentient octopus with excellent dexterity and coordination. You can force the plugin into producing faulty sounds and quirks by throwing extreme data at it.
The logic you are trying to explain would be, I have a 1988 honda civic with four wheels and one engine, I will go for a ride on Hollywood Blvd, but, if you could buy it...4 wheels and one engine, 2022 Lamborghini Urus...which one would you choose? They both take me to Hollywood Blvd.
I have tooons of Vst but have not used them in a long time. Then I got the Quantum Mk2 and Ibplah on it every day. So its a very inspiring instrument. But I mostly play on instruments live. When I do bigger things in a DAW I plan on using both VST and hardware.
@@VultureCulture lol Yeah, I remember the dreadful problems we had making our Korg MS20 sound good with anything else. It would just do its own thing in the corner, and so it ended up being a noise machine. The melodies were done on my EDP Wasp!
I really like the hardware, the workflow is unique and feels like working with a real instrument. It also allows you to work on a unique style with the personality of the machine. My best experiences have been to create an entire track with a single machine (peak and then perfourmer mk2) even if it means sampling tracks in ableton and editing them afterwards. Much more fun than passing 1000 plugin presets behind a screen
There's nothing wrong with liking hardware. My goal is to make sure no beginner's, who can't afford hardware, feel like they can't make awesome synth music without it.
I appreciate it! I have nothing against hardware synths, in fact I love them, but I hope that beginners don't jump into the deep end with 'em until they make some money off music.
Three years later, I guessed correctly, but not because B would have been better. I made a guess based on the kind of sound it made. I much prefer the Tyrell version, actually.
In any domain, asking the very same question about the value vs. The return on that value has to be asked. Thanks for saying it out loud. Too many people are attracted to $$$ perceived value.
I like VSTs and hardware too. When it comes to things like filters or audio-rate modulation, hardware still has its place I think. For many use cases though VSTs are usually as good or better.
Pretty good analysis! Actually I use my hardware especially for live gigs with our project Ambiosonics. However when PRODUCING most in the box is simply much more efficient. Especially VCV is a great tool for essentially free to emulate an infinite modular synth ... so nice!
@@VultureCulture Thanks for the reply and great video by the way. What I meant is some keyboard players talk about their fear of a laptop crash mid-set or as you mention latency or some other technical issue. The claim is that dedicated hardware is more stable and safer for live performance.
I think that was true 10-20 years ago. Also consider that the more pieces of gear you have the more opportunities for failure. My PolySix is wonky, and I basically feel like I can't use it live. If you use only a laptop it's all or nothing, but that's true if your favorite synth dies on stage, or there's a faulty cable
Version B is the analog, but I preferred the A version. The highs cut through the mix, making it sound a bit "cleaner" but the difference was incredibly minute.
The average audience isn't going to give two craps which of these two versions they buy on Apple music. I guarantee everybody that. Not everybody is a music producer with freakishly inhuman hearing and most people will not care.
@@sonofaglitch Even those that have inhuman hearing still wouldn't know unless you released both versions. I can hear the difference in an A/B test but you can only test A/B if you have both A *and* B.
@@Arcessitor That's because its the two same sounds being compared. No one does that in the real world, it's not about how they sound different side by side, but which one does a better job with certain sounds to where it matters. For example, theres no plugin of a Moog matriarch, I sold all my hardware except that. What am I supposed to compare it to? Analog or not, there isnt an equivalent.
I dunno.. i used yo be one of those guys that says vsts are just as good as hardware .. i purchased a moog matriarch and i dunno wth they put in this thing but when i hit a note it just has this thing thats missing from vsts .. it doesnt feel or sound as cold if that makes sense .. is it better? To me it does .. granted is it different because its a true analog path no digital osc or digital effects.... i probably sound crazy
OK I paused the video, and I’m definitely thinking that version A is the analog synth because it sounds ever so slightly crispier, guess I’m about to find out if I’m wrong lol Well shit…
It's about as good as one could hope for! And if you're making your own sounds it doesn't matter if the envelopes and resonance aren't spot on, you'll adjust all of that to taste anyways
Before I hear the results I'm going to guess B is the analog version and A is the VST. I'm listening to the sound demo from my Google Pixel smartphone. Curious to see what The answer is.
@@VultureCulture What stood out to me was that "B" had a bit more depth and dimension. I guess you can say it had a specific character and definition. "A" sounded a bit bland and sterile. This was noticeable even through my phone speaker. It seems to me that VST's and analog sit differently in a mix. Analog tends to "jump out" while VST's have a tendency of sounding less dimensional or flat. Not saying VST's aren't good but if you compose a song using all VST's and a song using all analog, they will have a different overall character to them.
@@boosuff I actually prefer the clear, direct sound of version A, but that's what's great about music, is we can both have different opinions about what sounds good. Thank you for watching and commenting 🥰
The sound of the second was waaay gentler, where first was harsh digital lo quality sound. You can hear the difference from miles away. I would also try using Diva and I'm sure the difference would be much smaller.
Rly? Listen in good studio headphones - the hardware version clearly has a bit more space and depth (even after lossy youtube encoding) while vsti is more centered and flat. But sonically they're pretty similar.
I could hear the right one A vs B. I have a £800 used Peak and bought it because I want a separate Dawless or PCless set up for Live performances and just turn on and play. 90% of all of My music made over 15 years all comes from software but I have had problems with computer and other apps interfering. Abaltens not working on My computer nore is the Akai software for MPC, Reason plus dont work on My computer either. I cant use Analog lab properly as My Keylab essential wont map properly with Abulten. The only DAW running perfect is Reason version 4 which is over a decade old with the old APK49.
Thanx for help me to not spend more money in synths. I sold most of my hardware becouse i was broke, buy i was thinking spend lot of money again in Cobalt 8 synth.
Thank you for this information, I’m just getting into this world and came across your honest video, as I was asking myself why do I need all this hardware chain? I could simply use a decent midi controller and software. But my next question is, can you really use this setup live? Or is it only valid for recording?
You absolutely can and in fact, for me, it's a better option than dragging my vintage hardware onto stage. I suppose if I had modern hardware synths maybe I would play out with them. But you don't need them
@@VultureCulture Sure, granted. So then the question should be: How much overlap is there and what, if any, VST covers the parts of the prologue that the Tyrell does not?
There is still no software that gives me as a keyboardist the direct controll and handson of a hardware instrument in a live situation.. the biggest limitation of VST’s is that they are build for studio use.. even mainstage only offers a preset list and no hands on flexibility.. maybe something like the upcomming MP midi is a step forward.
I just want to say that this was a great video and I sub'd because of it - it was the truth, and was a great way to explain and show that the expensive stuff isn't the way for me to go. This was a great thing.
I like 'B' version more. It's more "warm", unpredictable and slightly detuned (is this intentional?) but, BUT I'm sure there are tons of free effects plugins or if you have a DAW there is an army of effects which can make 'A' sound exactly like 'B" and probably even better. S/H LFO for barely hearable detune, tape effects, etc.
Intentionally left out of tune because that's what happens with analog oscillators. And yes, precisely. I wanted to do a fair comparison so I didn't use any retro-fying plugins but they're out there and they're great
I think this type of comparison inherently misses the point of what is better or worse about hardware. I think the important takeaway is that if you're using a preset without modifying it and controlling the sound with MIDI a VST is pretty much always superior, and if you're doing your own sound design or trying to modify the sound in a "human" way over the course of a song, you're going to get more mileage out of a hardware synth. Both are great in their own ways! Probably the best takeaway with this type of thing though is that you should only be spending money on stuff that you really love the layout/workflow on, because if sound is all you're after, you can get awesome sounds out of free stuff :D
My computer is not that old it's a 3 year old i5 and its having problems running Abalten and Akais Daw and Analog lab V. Nothing more anything then going to make some music and then computer plays up. I bought just over £1000 worth of physical sythersizors so I can just tern them on and play, no crashing PC to mess with.
@@manny_f Correct however I bought Reason 12 and that runs perfectly, it's a shame other DAWs dont. I do obviously need a new computer as Arturia plugins dont work either.
@@HOLLASOUNDS I used reason in the past and I always found it to be a very efficient DAW. I didn't gel with the whole rack thing back then now that I have a few modular bits of gear I might revisit it.
I love analog synths. But having everything as it was the last time I messed with it yesterday or two years down the road is very tough to argue against... especially when I can replace my virtual synths with hardware synths via MIDI at almost any time.
I really needed to hear this. Been going down the hardware rabbit hole since highschool. Finally have a nice dawless setup but I'm thinking about adding a computer to the mix. Roland cloud offers some nice options to load in my MC-707.
My biggest message is always to see if you can accomplish what you want with what you have already. 90% of the people I talk to already have enough. Impressed that you have a nice dawless setup!
@@VultureCulture yeah just started posting what I've been making with it now. The MC-707 was like a dream come true. I love that Drum Machine styled sequencing.
I used a lot of soft synth like sylenth1 and other free vst and common vst synths and effects. Still I use them most of time. And lots of samples if they do the work in the composition. Because I work a lot, I have money but not time to make some sound that a sample pack can do. Recently I bought a korg prologue 16 because was on special price and I wanted the real stuff. Also you can use it as midi or usb controller so win win. Finally I am understanding the knobs and touching them. With soft synth I only used presets.
Even through cheap laptop speakers, version B sounds way better to me. A sounds sterile, has too much high end, and if I was using it I would want to do something OTB - even if it was passing it through a cheap ART or Behringer isolating transformer or passive DI or something and back into interface - to help smooth out the leading edges of the waveforms and add a little harmonic distortion. It's possible to get there ITB (there are a lot of Airwindows plugins that do a good job) but it takes a lot more time and effort. Haven't watched past the 1:00 mark yet but I don't even need to to know that B is the hardware synth and I prefer it. But that said, either one is going to make a person's music or production better (or worse) and both have advantages and disavantages. You don't NEED to choose between hardware and software.
Bro, you racked up a lot of good karma with this video. A lot of people need to hear this. Hardware is dope but it's expensive big boy toys. I love them but newbies do need to know that software synths are EXACTLY the same thing under the hood.
It helps to listen on decent studio speakers with very very little correction EQ. Soon as I took the EQ range back up to +2dB on lows they both sounded fat - Version A was too in tune and boring. Version B sounded perfectly imperfect making me think twice about going back to VSTs
Thank you from preventing me from getting sucked into a bad splurge. I've been debating between dropping good money on a hardware wavetable synth instead of sticking with Serum and Vital, simply because I have automatically been under the impression that something about the knobs will make it sound better. In reality, I have everything I need. I have good VST synths and sound design plugins, and a physical MS-20 to warm things up. Why was I about to drop money on this thing? Commodity fetishism. That's literally it. Not that I couldn't guess which one was analog, but in guessing I realized how insignificant the difference is by the time the mix is completed. Would you say that the same principle goes for DJ controllers? Can someone do as good a set using a 300 dollar Pioneer as they could a 700 dollar Hercules(or whatever the pro standard is)? Or is that a less well-democratized niche?
I would say that goes even more with DJ controllers nowadays. Talk about an industry repackaging the same shit but adding extra LED's and charging more lol. Glad I could help save you some money 🙏
@@VultureCulture I love gear but anything can he an unhealthy addiction if you let it. I had a Subsequent 37 in a cart for a few days tempting me and RUclips suggestions were relentless. Thank goodness yours was recommended as well. I may get one one day but come on, I have so much more to do in vst before then to prove I would really benefit from it. Cheers
I'm glad RUclips's algorithms did a good job recommending a balance of viewpoints! The Sub37 is definitely a cool synth, and not crazy expensive for Moog, but it's also nothing that isn't well emulated in software. Check this puppy out: www.pluginboutique.com/products/6888-Model-72-Synthesizer-System?currency=USD&force_country=US&gclid=CjwKCAjw2ZaGBhBoEiwA8pfP_nYn1f2X4ouIXoDcVZ0I0kw0-0H-pnKzaVd4-kZPfiQsPmJU3ZiItRoCQV8QAvD_BwE
@@VultureCulture I love the model 72 and the Model 84 Juno from Softube. I have them both and more. I should be content! I would like a few recommendations on good feeling midi knob/slider controllers. I have the arturia keylab 49 but the knobs kinda suck as you have to turn them 3 to 4 times to make one round in most synths.
My favorite midi controller right now is the Nektar Impakt GX, but since it doesn't have knobs I can't vouch for it's bigger brother: www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ImpactLX49P--nektar-impact-lx49-keyboard-controller However for $169 it's not a bad gamble to try out. I'm sad to hear the Arturia isn't working for you, I wish there was a way to control knob sensitivity in the firmware or something.
I APPRECIATE THIS video a LOT. As a relative newbie in the past year (and just a hobby-ist) I didn't know where to start. I had a D-20 as a kid that was impossible to program and sequence with. I Picked up an Arturia Keylab Essential 61 at Guitar Center and the guy also sold me an "outdated" Analog Labs VC6 package for $40!! Then I got Logic ProX to use as a DAW. All in I spent about $600 including Presonus monitors and I'm completely overwhelmed with how much I've got at my fingertips! Now, I still see the draw to having a real and versatile hardware synth (like a Roland System-8 or a Deepmind 12) to engage in a different creative flow away from my Mac....but for now I think I've got my bases pretty well covered for quite some time.
That's the shit I like to hear! It seems like most of the hardware guys factor out the cost of things like monitors and daws, which are critical to the process if you want to create professional sounding music. Cheers and good luck on your adventures making music! With what you've got you're not going to need to spend another dime for a long time - except maybe on some drum samples, I'm a big fan of Ghost Syndicate 👻
I use an Alesis VI61 because it is the cheapest 61-key midi controller with aftertouch aside from the Nektar one which I found to have connectivity issues with my DAW. If you're okay with 49 keys the choices get a lot cheaper. Would not recommend Native Instruments. www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/VI61--alesis-vi61-keyboard-controller
I guess it depends if you want to record music or just jam. If you just want to jam then you don’t need to buy a computer or an interface so a couple of bits of hardware could actually be a cheaper option overall. Especially if you buy second hand.
Just in case you needed another reason (and you really don't :P) to get Reaper over literally any other DAW, they never lock the program even after the trial ends, you just have to wait for the timer to run out. Thank you Cockos, you guys are LEGENDS and praise-worthy! And thank you Mr. Vulture for speaking so plainly, not an expert myself but pretty much everything you've said makes a lot of sense and is something I've felt many times myself when watching those reviews.
Thank you! I have some expensive hardware; I also have a couple cool software synths. In the seven years I’ve been recording music, probably less than a dozen of the 130 plus pieces I’ve recorded have been done on the hardware. For me, both modalities have their place. And, I prefer recording with software.
For those of us who'd rather save on CPU and RAM, hardware sound modules are the way to go. Look at the Roland Integra 7! 6000 sounds that you can load up to 16 instances, one midi channel per track! 8 audio outs! Think of what you can record into a track with 16 powerful emulations and synths PLUS whatever you decide to accompany them with in-the-box.
I have an Integra 7 and I agree that it’s a great module that just does most of what you'd need. It's especially nice that it has many of the JV and XV aounds, so it's like getting 30 years of Roland all together. At the same time, many of the sounds are very bread and butter, and a lot of VSTs are actually more interesting in terms of what they can do. But yeah, if you are playing live and don't want to rely on a computer or software or if you just want a huge sound resource, than it's a solid buy.
After resisting my gasing for a 2K $ analog synth, I just spend 25$ for a chair cushion 'cause I'll be using my DAW a lot more. Gear is such an addiction, this is serious. Thanks for your video!
And that's with a freebie synth and as you say not much time. Do the same thing with Diva, Repro, Omnisphere or Dune3 and the difference would be completely indistinguishable. What you do get with hardware is a kind of immediate tactile feedback as you alter the sound and I think these days that's the biggest difference. It's a different workflow that uses different neurons. What would be really awesome is if Spectrasonics or somebody else came up with a great all-round dedicated midi-controller for Omnisphere.
one more thing. I own a Arturia Matrixbrute wich I like a lot, but I also have the Model 74 from Softube, a Minimoog clon. If I compare them, I am not sure wich one sounds better to me. Don´t get me wrong. I love my matrix brute but in my opinion the money difference is crazy. And yes, I have a fairly god audio interface, the UAD apollo 8 and expensive monitors, the tannoy ellipse 10 IDP. I think they costs 6500 € back then. So I can hear tiny sonic differences. Don´t buy expensive gear when you don't need it.
The Softube emulations are *out of this world!* Literally the best in the market, I don't care what anyone says, their emulations *are* the same sonically as the originals.
This is the smartest video that I've seen on RUclips in a very long time. VSTs have gotten so good that there really is no reason not to use them instead of expensive hardware. What would substitute for OmniSphere? Maybe a $5000 Waldorf Quantum, but then you'd miss out on the amazing Rhodes and pianos in KeyScape. What could replace OB-E? Maybe a $5000 OB-X8, but it's not a big improvement. GX-80 is arguably better than Deckard's Dream or any hardware alternative. And the list goes on. Plus, as you pointed out, VSTs integrate better with DAWs than hardware and you can run multiple instances. You're right about iPads. Many iPad apps synths are amazing and the're usually cheaper than the PC or Mac versions too. Personally, I think that it's good to have a workstation as a working board (like a Roland Fantom), but I'm a keyboard player, so I have high standards for my primary interface. Just from a sound standpoint, a cheap MIDI controller is Ok, especially if you don't perform live. Ten years ago, I still had some issues with VSTs in terms of sound and latency. But, in 2022, my hardware is increasingly sitting idle while I play VSTs instead. Because they often just sound better. PS. I thought the filter sounded a lttle better definied on B, so that was my (correct) guess. Filters are often the weak point of VSTs. But it was really still a guess, and they both sounded great.
Agree agree agree 👏 There's nothing wrong with a great keybed and I love tweaking knobs too. But if what we care about is the sound good luck replacing Omnisphere - even with a Quantum
It's worth noting that the demo features some of the most vanilla synth sounds, though - I wouldn't say that that makes you completely wrong, though, but there are just some cases where a synth oozes so much character into a track you can't just replicate it with free, generic software. That said, of course, software and hardware are all just tools, and you can get great sounds out of either. However, I love all my hardware synths, guitars, basses, etc. and don't regret buying any of them because they have songs in them that they reveal to me when I touch them, and - while I love software - it has never been able to do that for me. You can't really plug a computer into a speaker and sit on the couch with it on your lap, just noodling around seeing what you can come up with, not to mention making patches on a computer is drudgery while making patches on a well-designed hardware synth is a Zen-like, meditative experience that can calm you down after a long day of work (which of course you will have to do lots of to afford said hardware). Of course, working entirely ITB has a great sense of immediacy I would never deny, and I was working that way for quite a while, but I've been moving myself back to using all (or nearly all) hardware synths, to maintain that connection with the physical world I live in that I think is an important connection in a world where so much creativity is being eaten by AI, even if that connection only lives in my head - it also helps for making sure everything I'm working on can be successfully played out without having a computer on-stage. Most importantly, though, just booting up hardware makes my heart race in a way that software just has never done.
There's nothing wrong with enjoying hardware, I certainly do too. This video is about letting beginners know they don't have to pay an arm and a leg to be able to make amazing music. And frankly some of the most interesting and evocative sounds I've heard are from Luftrum and Ignacio Longo for Omnisphere.
You are absolutely hilarious. I really enjoyed this. I'm delving into the world of DAWs and VSTs. I'm sure I don't completely understand synthesizer architecture. I would really enjoy being able to make highly analogue Depeche mode type sounds but have not found a good step-by-step video using a VST that will give me those good buzzy fax machine sounding analog sounds that are a powerhouse when put together. If you have any referrals I would be grateful. Literal step by step A to z. Thanks so much. ☮️✌️🕊️👍💖
I'm glad you enjoyed the video! 🙏 This isn't an a to z tutorial, but this quick video from Reverb goes over the keyboards used by Depeche: ruclips.net/video/GScjMk8sPtM/видео.html Lots of Emulator II
I guessed wrong. I play or listen to music to "fly". I don't analyse the spaceship first and as long as nothing is bothering me up in the air, I'm not going to worry about what seem to be tiny differences to a non-expert between hardware and software. Spend your time enjoing what is going on inside your own mind, or the endless possibilties of creativity I say. Don't fall for the material distractions too much. Cheers mate.
I like version A better. I was afraid to guess which was which. I love my 3299 euro Kronos but I also love the sound of the 29 euro JP6K VST on my 300 euro 6 year old PC
Make sure your browser is translating from German to English. There's a section called "The downloads for the software synthesizer TYRELL N6" and under there are several download links. Pick the one that makes the most sense for your system (Mac vs Windows)
at 56yrs old and I have been through a slew of hardware synths, to VST's and a decent controller is all you need. The only thing hardware is good for anymore is EYECANDY. It always looks good in the studio. I mean look at BT he has serious GAS. In fact I have a Korg karma and 6 groove boxes just sitting in the studio , I am in the box 99.9%. And this dude is spot on !!!!!
I completely agree with you! I own a $1,750 System 8 but 99 out of a 100 I use my software. And of a lot of that is freeware! It's amazing how much good free stuff there is. Even the stock plugins that come with any DAW these days. And some of those DAWs even are free! But... I did really get to know (subtractive) synthesis and programming sounds on my System 8 since it's a know per function synth and that helped me understand VSTi's more. But no one NEEDS a expensive synth like that in order to make music.
The System 8 has a really great synth layout - and the way it integrates with the plug outs is better than Juno/Jupiter X IMHO and the sound is more authentic. Thanks for the comment! 🙏
Like you said - at the end of the day it's about talent. The System 8 is a really cool product with all the plug outs you can load into it. Then again, the Roland Cloud is even more varied.
Learning subtractive synths with a software and a mouse is probably very hard. I tweak around all the time, dial in my sounds from scratch. I need a good keybed, good knobs - that helps me to get to areas where I hardly get with a VST. And about the sound: Bread and butter stuff, ok, but show me a VST which can sound (and perform!!) like PWM malevolent or erica syntrix....
I went from hardware to software and back to hardware. For me, it just came down to me wanting the simplest set-up and for me that was just having a hardware synth that I can plug and play. Also, all of the sounds that were available to me through software started to become too much. I don't need all of that. It's enough trying to get through the sounds on my hardware synths, let alone Omnisphere with :"a million" presets and that's just ONE plugin.
I used to be a vst pragmatic. I got some hardware synhs and I can tell there is a diferene in the sound , kind of a character that the vsts don't t match. Some people think are the circuits. Is it important or relevant for the general audience? I think no. Is it important to me when producing? Yes. When vst can't give me what I want, I turn to hardware and they never disappoint.
The only hardware I use is the Virus TI, which isn't even analogue. I find that Diva does Analogue sound better than most hardware does anyway. And in the context of a mix, anything more than 1 or 2 "real" analogue patches are gonna take up all room you have just based on how dense they sound in the arrangement. I'm fine with mostly using softsynths. Oh, and I prefer A, it sounds warmer. Probably just bass related.
in small room well recording vst can sound better but live in a large club or big bar where hardware stands out keeps up with basses and cuts thur a live mix on stage..there a reason why vintage classic synths demand a high price...room in the music world for both in my book
I love vintage synths and have 20+. But I am under no illusion that they're going to sound better live as compared to in the studio. They can sound great - but I am constantly shocked at how many times VST's beat them out in blind tests I've done.
Good video, well said. I preferred version 'A' but as you said it is possible to make the Prologue match the Vst. I have been making music using a computer for years. The last two or three I have been considering a hardware synth, for the hands on control. The Prologue 16 and UDO Super 6 are the hardware synths I am most drawn to. That being said I have also been thinking to save the money and purchase a better midi controller, like the Arturia keystep Pro or the Novation SL MK3.
I like both versions, one more dry and tight the other a bit more fat, I think that the two worlds are compatible and should live side by side , depending simply on wich device gives you the sound you need at a given time
I work with both, but to my ears, 'B" sounds slightly out of tune which you get with analogue, but not with software, so I picked correctly "B". It's great to have a couple of hardware synths around if you can spare the money for a little old school sonic exploration. Yeah, it is a tough call though, there are so many amazing soft synths to choose from that sound incredible.
Good ears! Yes the VCO's are a little flat - I decided to leave them that way since out of tune is literally what you pay for when you buy a VCO synth lol
I was considering buying a really nice $3000 synth but then I thought about it carefully and watched a few videos including this one and came to the conclusion that even if I had that synthesizer I would still be working at the computer 80% of the time using my cheap midi keyboard since that’s where the majority of the work is being done, plus I’m not even a good keyboard player and I don’t have any intention to be a live performer. Maybe a good pair of headphones and a music production software like logicpro would make more sense.
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I recorded many tracks using both hardware and software synths, noone cared. I had many hardware synths, so i took a photo of my studio with tons of hardware synths around and everybody went crazy. They could not stop commenting about how great my studio is and how great i "must be" having all this hardware, WITHOUT even asking to listen to any of my music .... So it is the visual appeal. People want to see "professionals" sitting among walls of knobs, switches and flashing lights (this last one is the most important! LOL) ... As years go by, i gradually sell most of my hardware because to me software is easier to use, more cost effective and still NOONE can tell that what they hear is mostly software, they look at my hardware synths and believe that it is the hardware they are listening to ... again, without asking me what i used in the track. So, for me, hardware is helping someone to push a professional image easily. Do i love hardware synths? OF COURSE! YES !!! I love touching the knobs and the switches and the overall tactile experience, but soundwise, they offer no advantage over software. I laugh every time i hear someone say how good analog synths sound in a recording, bypassing the fact that what they are actually listening to is a DIGITAL sample of an analog sound.
Yes! Knobs and LEDs does not a great song make
Thanks for your insight
When I dove back into Retro Synthwave Music, Mitch Murder quickly become one of my favorites. Hearing his stuff I assumed he HAD to be using a Roland D-50, a Juno of some sort and an 808 for most of his sound. When I did some digging, I believe he is exclusively software based with nothing more than a small, cheap MIDI controller. You'd never know it listening on Bandcamp through headphones.
Owning hardware is about the experience of playing a well-designed, well thought-out instrument with your hands, rather than playing a virtual instrument with arbitrarily-assigned knobs, which you'll almost never have enough of to control an entire VST without your mouse. It's also about getting away from screens (yes I know you can accomplish much of this using things like Push and Maschine) for your jams, and for some people, the entire song making process.
At the end of the day, it's about the experience the creator has with them, not about making the sound better proportional to price, or (at least for people who genuinely care about actually using hardware gear) pushing a professional image. Yes it's used as visual appeal in some cases, but a lot of the time the people you see using them genuinely love the experience being hands-on like that can bring.
Here's a small slice of my experience: I got a Minilogue for my first piece of hardware. I already owned Komplete 9, Ableton 9 Intro, and a lot of free plugins, so I by no means needed it. But I fell in love with its sonic character, which no VST or hardware had at the time, and above all else, it made me *WANT* to learn sound design. It made the process feel *good*. Miles better than dragging a mouse around, something I had been doing in other contexts since I was 3. So that $500 invested gave me the experience of learning subtractive synthesizer sound design very well (more effective and enjoyable than any school experience I've had with learning music), something to quite literally get a *feel* for the process of making sound, my first real high-quality instrument that I don't need a computer for, and a whole lot of beautiful memories playing around with it with my friends.
In the end, one is not superior to the other unless you refine your query down to a smaller scope, such as pure sound creation and cost ratio. But as a whole, the experiences are very different and it really comes down to the value you place on having access to one or the other.
Man, that NOONE guy is a real idiot.
As a hardware guy that is considering switching to software, I really appreciate your video and your message, especially regarding the messaging being forced on new musicians. Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed, thank you for your comment 🙏
100% agree with this. I'd like to see more focus from the electronic music tutorial community on songwriting.
Yes! It's about the notes, not the box you made it with
1000% percent!! No one cares that you used mid side processing on your bass if can't write a cool riff...
Totaly agree with you. I consider myself as a beginner and at some point i decided that i definitely need hardware synth, because it will help me making better music. And obviously it is not. It is fun to play and it helped me understand sound design principles better, but overall it did not impact that dramatically on music quality. I finally realized - if you want to make a better music - practice more on the instrument, learn music theory, produce more songs. If you have some spare money - go for private lessons/education, upgrade or bye new pc/mac. Recently i was watching a review of behringer 808-like drum machine and boy oh boy - ableton’s 808 basic kit sounds exactly the same!
Hardware or software price plays very little in the music created. You dont need to know music theory if your using DAWs due midi editing but if you have the time then definitely learn music theory but dont become some one who just plays other peoples music. I didn't know music theory when I started I played by ear and also draw in midi the way I wanted and come up with some of My best work back in 2007.
I picked B as the prologue, but not because I thought it sounded better or more authentically analogue. I picked B because it's slightly out of tune and I felt it more likely to be analog because of that.
That's the key - a lot of people complained I let the synth be out of tune for the recording, but that's literally what you pay for with VCO's
Same reason i picked B as the prologue
I picked a as prologue. I thougt at has more harmonics. But after realizing that it wasnt it was more brighter. And nice brightness is also a character of digital synths and vsts. Ps the synth b was too much out tune for hearing the real little differnce in a same tune.
I have Minilogue XD and I instantly picked B because you can tell how awful on the pitch lol
in the end for serious production id rather just go with software at this point, while I still have hardware synths it's only good for off cams stuff firing sounds when you want on your free time enjoying music, so it's good for getting inspiration but worst when you do production (takes so time to set it all up)
@yasunakaikumi it really can take forever just to find out somethings not 100%. The moment somethings not firing the illusion is broken.
Tx man, i really needed someone to be 100% honest about hardware/software, as you said fancy stuff are just luxury stuff. You can make music with whatever you have if you know what to do.
It's so much more important what you do with it than what it is
You hit the nail on the head when you compared a hardware synth to a luxury watch or car. Any reliable car will get you from a to b, but it's how you want to choose to get there. Style and luxury vs prudence and conservatory. I could tell the difference between the two comparisons, but I have used u-he's Tyrell and it is SUCH an easy synth to get quick sounds from with very little effort so I get the point. It is certainly food for thought. Thanks for the video.
Good to hear from you, it's been a bit!
People are really triggered by the word "luxury" but all it means is you're buying a product that's above the bare minimum to get the job done.
Thst is a really valid viewpoint. Definately should be on all beginners' must watch video list.
Props.
I appreciate you 🙏
I agree with everything said here. Beginners don't realize that often the gearhead types are really splitting hairs when trying to assess whether some VST is better than a hardware synth, or whether one guitar virtual amp is better than another. The fact that you even have to ask people to guess which is which when doing an A-B comparison like this is the proof of that. Maybe one sounds a tiny bit "better" when soloed and listened to on amazing headphones, but you're never going to notice that miniscule difference in a mix.
Exactly.
Also I try to say synths sound "different" in particular - it's all to easy to let the price tag affect how you hear a sound.
I think beginners should (if they already have a half decent laptop PC) buy a $200 Aturia midi keyboard and they get Analog lab V and Abalten lite for free. I started out using a cracked version of Reason 2 and then cupple years later buying Reason 4 and I haven't upgraded in decades.
Was with you until virtual amp, if were talking about sound equipment that's a different story. Amp plugins never sound as good as real amps, that ones less of a debate and more a monetary decision. You really don't need to ask someone to guess about amp sims, its very obvious.
I guessed that the hardware was the second one
This is a super important message, thank you for talking about the dangerous waters of start-up costs that surround a new hobby/art form!
Scouts honor- responding before continuing-
B had more detuning on the lead sound.. but no clue as I'm not familiar with the hard synth in this case.
And in any case the detune sounded intentional as it was in BOTH, but it was deeper in B.
B was the analog! Nicely done 👏
@@VultureCulture OK sorry I posted a reply about three times and RUclips is not saving it nor giving me any errors.
Maybe they are going into some sort of approval queue.
I'll give it a rest for now and try later.
Ok it keeps disappearing..
Weird.
That's really strange.
I am a 100% "in the box" guy. A bit over two years ago, I purchased my first hardware synth, the ASM Hydrasynth Desktop. Up to that point, I had been strictly software based. It turned out, I hardly ever used it. Yes, having all of those knobs was wonderful, I did love the tactile feel of it but, it was harder to understand but, understandable but, the main think lacking for me was the direct connection to my DAW without any of the convenience of having the patch stored within the track, something I had really relied on with AU/VST instrument plugins along with the ability to keep the synth tracks "live" as I tweaked and adjusted those patches across all of the tracks and have those changes stored instantly.
In my opinion, if you are going to spend any money on an instrument, spend it on a really good, high-quality keyboard controller and use its knobs and sliders to control your DAW and whatever instrument you happen to be using at the moment. I'm saving my money for either the NI Komplete Kontrol S61, or the Novation 61SL MkIII 61. I could use some advise actually between the two.
Man if that isn't the god damn truth!
I guessed wrong - version A sounded better to me! I think one thing you may be missing in the dawless vs VST discussion is that if you work in IT/Digital and spend the whole workday at your desk, with a computer, you really get fed up with computers and screens. Last thing I want to do after a day's work, is to spend more time with the computer and twiddling virtual knobs. The hardware synths give me an option to play without the computer - and gig easily - once we're able to play live/in a band again.
I've heard this type of comment a few times now, and I have to say it's one of the only persuasive responses I've received. I totally get not wanting to be looking at a screen if that's what you do for work.
Hope we can all get back to playing live soon!
I am in IT, stare at screen all day too, but do all my audio 'in the box'. Used to have hardware but don't have the room anymore, and there is the cost factor. I love 'in the box' but can totally understand those who don't want to stare at screen. I do appreciate the hands on fun of a hardware synth, and controllers can be a pain to setup and are never as ideal as hardware with designed controls.
Regarding the shoot out, I too thought A was the hardware. Sounded crisper/brighter to me and I just figured that would be the hardware. Tyrell N6 is one of the all time greats of VST synths and free! Definitely not a $1500 (USD?) difference in the quality of sound.
Great job on the video/shoot out.
Thank you for your comment! 🙏
The "I stare at a screen all day" defense is the best I've heard for why someone refuses to do in the box, but I still agree with you that it's not that big of a deal.
Looking back at this statement from a year ago, I found it's more about not having to interact with a laptop/pc specifically rather than VST/screen. I have a MPC One now that I equipped with the piano/EP/Organ/synth plugins on sale recently and I don't have an issue with using the touchscreen there with a combination of knobs/buttons. It's now serving as a workstation replacement for me when I need those sounds in my band.
Some of my work colleagues and friends don't have an issue with using the same PC/laptop to make music or play games, so it's down to personal preference and some kind of mental block that I developed.
I mean, I totally get it. I'm in the service industry so I'm barely ever looking at screen, so for me there's never been an issue with eye strain or even feeling like "god damnit not another screen" lol
But I totally get it.
Thank you, I’ve been preaching this to myself for decades now, I knew I was right but didn’t have all the info until now 🙏. It’s about the sound and how to manipulate it, and then the final product that people listening to it will hear! You could literally make music with a trash can depending on how it’s edited, processed, and recorded for listening.
I'm tempted to record a trash can and make a track in response to this comment 🤣
Hi, I think your message is very correct: hardware synthesizers are indeed luxury items. But you might have mentioned that besides the big price difference there are even consideral benefits to software synths, such as that they are much easier to use presets with (when loading a preset you actually see the knob positions), they are easier to record and edit, they are more feature rich, they take up much less space, there is less hassle with cables, ...
Oh of course! I find it much faster to work with VST's whenever possible, but I know hardware people find it more frustrating, so I elected to avoid going down that road.
Great advice and it's nice to hear the other side of the debate for once. I've owned probably 20-30 different hardware synths and ended up selling all of them at one point or another. I much prefer having money, knowing a few soft synths well enough to make whatever sound I want, and a minimal and uncluttered work space.
There was a time, twentyish years ago, where hardware was vastly superior in terms of sound and workflow.
Those days are long gone.
Same here, my iPad and dRambo with Loopy Pro do anything I can imagine.
The B sounded out of tune (the Lead bell like ) compared with A and as for the B composition, the Sound on the K Prologue damaged the recording because of that detuning, which is a problem for some Prologue models... any comments...Thanks. YUK01
My Prologue mostly stays in tune, but you're right, it was a little flat in this recording.
The irony here is oscillators drifting out of tune is the entire point of VCO's. For better or worse it's part of the sound.
Just to be clear I don't believe my Prologue is especially out of tune.
I guessed correctly, but I could have easily guessed wrong. Very informative and well delivered. Thank you!
You're welcome! I'm glad you enjoyed the video 🙏
I fully agree with your statements. I am 59 yo. Amateur musician playing in cover bands dealing with classic rock (60, 70, 80).
I own a Korg MS20 since I was a kid. Still using it and loving it. When I was a teenager and then a student, polysynth were incredibly expensive. I dreamt a lot about a Prophet5 or an OB-X. Then for years I stopped playing, trying to build a career. It didn't work very well. So I got back to music because it's the most interesting thing to do to increase my wellness.
After many years now I could buy a huge polyphonic beast, but I preferred to get a new Mac with music software. I can produce my songs with tools that in my youth were forbidden for common people. And I have a lot of fun.
So I prefer software synths. I play live with VSTs because hammond and rhodes are much better in software than in any expensive workstation.
I have a close friend who is a well-known producer here in Italy, if I want to have fun with a Prophet5 or an ARP Quadra I go to his studio. Jamming with a lot of fun.
I strongly suggest to young beginners to start with software. Today's music is 99% self produced in bedroom, when you start. So it's better to face computer issues immediately.
Then everyone can buy what he likes, but big polysynths are not needed.
version b?
Well done 👏
I own a hardware JX8P from Roland I purchased in the 80ties. And there is a free vst emulation of JX8P. Guess what I am actually using. You got it!
Great video. Super ez for me to hear...the bass synth on B is much deeper and penetrating.... The strings in B have a more diverse less linear/smooth quality which is the character.. These two qualities are always the things I find lacking on vst vs analog.... If your style of music needs deep penetrating sounds that can stand on their own I haven't found vst that can do this near as well as a average or better true analog synth(but I'm desperately hoping for one)... It's why folks like daft punk and stranger things them writers use these old synths because the vst can't get there... Great video though for folks that don't prefer that deeper character... Sadly I was able to hear these differences on my phones speakers... I would cringe far more if I played this thru my KRK monitors... To b fair folks are raving about Arturias Micro V which Bob Moog was involved with... So I need to check that out before I completely dismiss vst
They do sound different - but $1,500 different?
@@VultureCulture honestly for me... My love is deep sounding synth music... I've had the fever for 30+ years... And I've owned tons of hardware and software over the years... And for my style music I love the highest sound quality with unique thick sounds... Vst is just plain hollow unless you fight like heck layering and layering and splicing and even then it sounds contrived. And boy how I wish VST did overcome that hurdle... I have one synth workstation now... It's a Korg Triton extreme w the added VA moss board giving 6 note polyphony virtual analog and 124 polyphony/sampler/seq etc for $1000 used... It kills vst and eats the sound for breakfast... Not quite as good as a real Moog or my old kurweil but it's good enough unless money burns thru my pockets... And it's a workstation so I can really get the bones of a piece going on the workstation in great quality without working all day on a computer screen only to come home and continue on to another one for music making... To me that is most common reason I hear about folks trying to go dawless... People are worn out from computers at their day job and they just want to turn on a piece of equipment and go to down... So I create 75% of a tracks bones on my workstation and then take everything over to the dawn for arranging, mixing, more effects some background vst compliments etc... Now being heavily involved w computers and analog synths I notice one thing... If you have just one decent va or analog multipurpose synth then VST comes alive in a big way... If you layer the 2 live it's magical and truly opens a new world.
Hi great video.. I just wanted tell you that I think you’re right. I’m there with you. I’m changing my live setup to MainStage and 3 controllers now. This is a Reggae show that I’m using layers and splits on every song….Maybe I’m doing it for more reasons than what you’re saying . I have 1Roland fantom and 2 motif xf on my rider and my last show the promoter didn’t have anything that was on the rider. I ended playing the show with with a piano and the first brass I could find. My 3rd keyboard I tried to play it twice, but everything I played was just noise…the next reason is these keyboard are or way too heavy for me and too big for my car trunk.. I remember when I was playing my Kong tritons and I could fit 2 of them in my trunk, with my gig bag and a rock and roller…now I drove my motif and fantom to my home gigs on my back seat.. not cool.. Anyway, I’m there with you… keep up the good work, and thank you…
Glad to help 🙏
Awesome studio there, plants on point. Good advice man, awesome content
Thank you very much, I've put a lot of effort into it.
Great video, I always suspected that, I'm having a blast using many soft synths and I'm able to enjoy the things I create, at the end of the day I get the sounds I like, and even though a more expensive hardware synth could make it a little better, it most likely it will only be different, so not sure that even justifies the difference in price. You rock man!
I'm glad you enjoyed it! Hardware is great but I don't think anyone should feel like they can't make great music without it.
What are your favorite soft synths?
@@VultureCulture All my synths are software based, I started with "reason" many moons ago, and I still do stuff on it, but I do like Vital and most of the Cherry Audio synths, I also use a lot of synths on my iPad, a lot; and I'm having a lot of fun in my "me" time, finally after many decades I'm spending some time doing things I enjoy doing, mostly for myself but sometimes I even like the lucky sounds I put together, I have zero training by the way but that did not seem to be an issue; I have a lot of influences thought, a lot, from the original age of elect music.
@@VultureCulture I do not have a favorite synth, I was impressed with Vital though, that's the one that brought me back to pc-based synths, I was more into iPad synths for years, except for Reason and Surge. There is way more variety of user interfaces on iPad synths. I also like interesting presets and a quick way to tweak those. For me it is a matter of having my synths at hand and then bring one and then another (..and another) into the mix, and if I plug each clip at the right place I can create an interesting combination.
@omlem8641 that's awesome! And I started on Reason too! Malstrom is a monster!
I look at this type of thing - focusing on hardware - as a subset of a larger and kinda natural human thing.
I like very much that you said "different" here - that's the key.
Any assignment of worth towards an artist (of any kind, not just music) based on anything BUT the artist's output is an avoidance of owning up to the fact that all art is an abstraction.
So we like artists when they die, when they come from a tough life or overcome amazing odds or disabilities or societal disadvantages, when they use cool tools, when they are sexy or beautiful or give good interviews, when we know tons of other people like them or when we find people who we consider attractive or cool also like them, when we haven't gotten used to them making art in a different way, when we think their product makes us look cool...you name it...NONE of this has anything to with the art.
And even then, art is not sports. There's just no such thing as "better."
Thank you for commenting this salient point! 🙏
A sounds better. But does this apply to all possible sounds?
Absolutely not, but this little synthwave track does cover a lot of ground in terms of bread n butter analog sounds.
@@VultureCulture Well personally I liked the VST sounds better in your particular arrangement, but I use my synths in a wholly different way. I accentuate their innate quirks and defaults which doesn't come natural in a VST. The moment someone comes up with a fully functioning VST controller VSTs could become as usable as a HW synth + all the known benefits of ITB. A P-600 or a Micromoog are harder to emulate it seems - or maybe just not worth it in the minds of SW developers. Then there is CV/Gate on synths like the Micromoog which allows for direct interfacing with sequencers and other gear. So we would need CV/Gate "banks" like a Kenton to interface VSTs with external CV Gate gear when desired.. Hope I expressed it clearly enough for readers to make sense of it. I have a type of MIDI controller in my mind that could work but it would probably cost some $$ to implement and be kind of large because it would need a LED screen paired with each knob and fades since functions and layout vary from synth to synth and from VST to VST. The thing I have in mind would assume the layout of whatever synth or efx it is controlling at the moment ergo the size and cost could be substantial while the need for most analog synths would also diminish thus freeing up space and cash. Only a matter of time IMHO till someone makes that effort. I am hanging on to unemulated gear the most. I can also tell you that none of the SEM plugins sound anything like a real Two-Voice. I know because I recorded the hell out of mine which I was forced to sell to pay for repairs and living expenses at the time. The HW version invites atonal use while VSTs always tend to go toward chords and melodies, which I guess most people need most, but which serves my needs a little less. That said there is a great OB-Xa emulation which has total parameter control, letting you use it in ways the original could never be used to make a track - unless you are a sentient octopus with excellent dexterity and coordination. You can force the plugin into producing faulty sounds and quirks by throwing extreme data at it.
Great points. My 26 year old Alesis has as much to offer as these analouge things - and it has a keyboard....
The logic you are trying to explain would be, I have a 1988 honda civic with four wheels and one engine, I will go for a ride on Hollywood Blvd, but, if you could buy it...4 wheels and one engine, 2022 Lamborghini Urus...which one would you choose? They both take me to Hollywood Blvd.
Exactly! If in a blind test you couldn't tell the difference between the two - which everyone would in your example.
What about going on gigs?
I'd much prefer a reliable midi controller and a laptop - much more flexible.
Unless you only do sounds on a workhouse synth like a Rev2
I have tooons of Vst but have not used them in a long time. Then I got the Quantum Mk2 and Ibplah on it every day. So its a very inspiring instrument. But I mostly play on instruments live. When I do bigger things in a DAW I plan on using both VST and hardware.
Quantum 2 seems like it would be quite inspiring!
There were tuning issues in B, so I picked that as the hardware, since logic would dictate that a digital emulation doesn't drift.
I thought about fixing the tuning issues with the analog synth, but that's kinda the reason you pay for VCO's.
@@VultureCulture lol Yeah, I remember the dreadful problems we had making our Korg MS20 sound good with anything else. It would just do its own thing in the corner, and so it ended up being a noise machine. The melodies were done on my EDP Wasp!
@periurban ugh what an awesome synth!
I really like the hardware, the workflow is unique and feels like working with a real instrument. It also allows you to work on a unique style with the personality of the machine. My best experiences have been to create an entire track with a single machine (peak and then perfourmer mk2) even if it means sampling tracks in ableton and editing them afterwards. Much more fun than passing 1000 plugin presets behind a screen
There's nothing wrong with liking hardware. My goal is to make sure no beginner's, who can't afford hardware, feel like they can't make awesome synth music without it.
Wow! 1000% agree. Also thankyou, because you are spreading a very honest and healthy message .. especially to the beginner community.
I appreciate it! I have nothing against hardware synths, in fact I love them, but I hope that beginners don't jump into the deep end with 'em until they make some money off music.
I can't say wich one was wich, but I liked version b more than version one. I had never touched the prologue. but they are very close together.
Great guess!
Three years later, I guessed correctly, but not because B would have been better. I made a guess based on the kind of sound it made. I much prefer the Tyrell version, actually.
I do as well!
I would like to see some comparisons of the u-he Diva vs the analog version, they have kept improving on the analog part of the sound.
I mean, I could do that, but the free U-he plugin is already better in most people's opinions according to this comments section lol
@@VultureCulture Fair enough, cheers! =D Keep up the great content.
@sonofaglitch thank you!
In any domain, asking the very same question about the value vs. The return on that value has to be asked. Thanks for saying it out loud. Too many people are attracted to $$$ perceived value.
The return should be the whole point, but unfortunately most people think very romantically when it comes to synths.
I like VSTs and hardware too. When it comes to things like filters or audio-rate modulation, hardware still has its place I think. For many use cases though VSTs are usually as good or better.
Pretty good analysis! Actually I use my hardware especially for live gigs with our project Ambiosonics. However when PRODUCING most in the box is simply much more efficient. Especially VCV is a great tool for essentially free to emulate an infinite modular synth ... so nice!
I really need to try VCV out!
Really good point!!! Finishing Tracks should be the luxury item
Hahaha yes!
What about live performance? Does the controller/VST work as well?
I'm not sure what you mean?
The VST can be midi learned to knobs on a midi controller and played back with zero latency
@@VultureCulture Thanks for the reply and great video by the way. What I meant is some keyboard players talk about their fear of a laptop crash mid-set or as you mention latency or some other technical issue. The claim is that dedicated hardware is more stable and safer for live performance.
I think that was true 10-20 years ago.
Also consider that the more pieces of gear you have the more opportunities for failure. My PolySix is wonky, and I basically feel like I can't use it live.
If you use only a laptop it's all or nothing, but that's true if your favorite synth dies on stage, or there's a faulty cable
B "solo" is a bit more detuned, but you can achieve this effect with vst and hardware alike
Fair point
The same is true for many guitar effects. Lots of good plugins for cheap or free.
Absolutely! Any favorites?
@@VultureCulture I had Sonar and it had its own effects, all kinds, like a lot of daws. Even audacity had effects.
Version B is the analog, but I preferred the A version. The highs cut through the mix, making it sound a bit "cleaner" but the difference was incredibly minute.
The average audience isn't going to give two craps which of these two versions they buy on Apple music. I guarantee everybody that. Not everybody is a music producer with freakishly inhuman hearing and most people will not care.
Totally agree
@@sonofaglitch Even those that have inhuman hearing still wouldn't know unless you released both versions. I can hear the difference in an A/B test but you can only test A/B if you have both A *and* B.
@@Arcessitor That's because its the two same sounds being compared. No one does that in the real world, it's not about how they sound different side by side, but which one does a better job with certain sounds to where it matters. For example, theres no plugin of a Moog matriarch, I sold all my hardware except that. What am I supposed to compare it to? Analog or not, there isnt an equivalent.
I dunno.. i used yo be one of those guys that says vsts are just as good as hardware .. i purchased a moog matriarch and i dunno wth they put in this thing but when i hit a note it just has this thing thats missing from vsts .. it doesnt feel or sound as cold if that makes sense .. is it better? To me it does .. granted is it different because its a true analog path no digital osc or digital effects.... i probably sound crazy
Not crazy! No doubt a Matriarch sounds good!
A Behringer Pro-800 eight voice analog poly and an Arturia Keystep for less than €500 is amazing!
We truly live in the golden age of synthesizers ✨
OK I paused the video, and I’m definitely thinking that version A is the analog synth because it sounds ever so slightly crispier, guess I’m about to find out if I’m wrong lol
Well shit…
Hahaha no one has correctly guessed yet. I guess I should have done all A's or all B's
@@VultureCulture Hey I’m going to try that VST now though lol. Had me fooled!
It's about as good as one could hope for! And if you're making your own sounds it doesn't matter if the envelopes and resonance aren't spot on, you'll adjust all of that to taste anyways
Before I hear the results I'm going to guess B is the analog version and A is the VST. I'm listening to the sound demo from my Google Pixel smartphone. Curious to see what The answer is.
I appreciate your bravery!
@@VultureCulture What stood out to me was that "B" had a bit more depth and dimension. I guess you can say it had a specific character and definition. "A" sounded a bit bland and sterile. This was noticeable even through my phone speaker. It seems to me that VST's and analog sit differently in a mix. Analog tends to "jump out" while VST's have a tendency of sounding less dimensional or flat. Not saying VST's aren't good but if you compose a song using all VST's and a song using all analog, they will have a different overall character to them.
@@boosuff I actually prefer the clear, direct sound of version A, but that's what's great about music, is we can both have different opinions about what sounds good. Thank you for watching and commenting 🥰
The sound of the second was waaay gentler, where first was harsh digital lo quality sound. You can hear the difference from miles away.
I would also try using Diva and I'm sure the difference would be much smaller.
Yeah, Diva would have crushed it.
Rly? Listen in good studio headphones - the hardware version clearly has a bit more space and depth (even after lossy youtube encoding) while vsti is more centered and flat. But sonically they're pretty similar.
You can definitely hear less of a static, compressed, up-front sound on the triangle lead from the Prologue. I kind of like the N6 version better
I could hear the right one A vs B. I have a £800 used Peak and bought it because I want a separate Dawless or PCless set up for Live performances and just turn on and play. 90% of all of My music made over 15 years all comes from software but I have had problems with computer and other apps interfering. Abaltens not working on My computer nore is the Akai software for MPC, Reason plus dont work on My computer either. I cant use Analog lab properly as My Keylab essential wont map properly with Abulten. The only DAW running perfect is Reason version 4 which is over a decade old with the old APK49.
These are important lessons. Thanks for sharing.
I appreciate you 🙏
HI there ! Thanks for sharing and for your honest opinions. Much appreciated. Best Regards . . . Eddie ( UK follower ).
You're welcome 🙏
Thanx for help me to not spend more money in synths. I sold most of my hardware becouse i was broke, buy i was thinking spend lot of money again in Cobalt 8 synth.
No worries! 🙏
I wasn't sure which one was analog, but I did think Version B sounded better. It was more alive. But the sound was indeed very close.
I'd like to emphasize that I spent about 10 minutes doing both arrangements. I did not even try matching them all that much.
Thank you for this information, I’m just getting into this world and came across your honest video, as I was asking myself why do I need all this hardware chain? I could simply use a decent midi controller and software. But my next question is, can you really use this setup live? Or is it only valid for recording?
You absolutely can and in fact, for me, it's a better option than dragging my vintage hardware onto stage. I suppose if I had modern hardware synths maybe I would play out with them. But you don't need them
OK, but are there sounds on the Prologue that the Tyrell is not able to emulate? Because I think there probably are..
Yes, but the opposite is also true.
@@VultureCulture Sure, granted. So then the question should be: How much overlap is there and what, if any, VST covers the parts of the prologue that the Tyrell does not?
There is still no software that gives me as a keyboardist the direct controll and handson of a hardware instrument in a live situation.. the biggest limitation of VST’s is that they are build for studio use.. even mainstage only offers a preset list and no hands on flexibility.. maybe something like the upcomming MP midi is a step forward.
Your 100% correct that's why I bought a £800 used Peak synthesizer the other day because I just want to be able to switch on and jam with real gear.
Tyrell N6 is a fantastic synth. Great sound, nice GUI, no major drain on the CPU. Lovely thing to make music with.
It'll get you 90% of the way there and is totally free. Insanity!
I just want to say that this was a great video and I sub'd because of it - it was the truth, and was a great way to explain and show that the expensive stuff isn't the way for me to go. This was a great thing.
Thank you 🙏 I'm glad the message came through - not everyone had liked this video 🤪
I like 'B' version more. It's more "warm", unpredictable and slightly detuned (is this intentional?) but, BUT I'm sure there are tons of free effects plugins or if you have a DAW there is an army of effects which can make 'A' sound exactly like 'B" and probably even better. S/H LFO for barely hearable detune, tape effects, etc.
Intentionally left out of tune because that's what happens with analog oscillators.
And yes, precisely. I wanted to do a fair comparison so I didn't use any retro-fying plugins but they're out there and they're great
I think this type of comparison inherently misses the point of what is better or worse about hardware. I think the important takeaway is that if you're using a preset without modifying it and controlling the sound with MIDI a VST is pretty much always superior, and if you're doing your own sound design or trying to modify the sound in a "human" way over the course of a song, you're going to get more mileage out of a hardware synth. Both are great in their own ways! Probably the best takeaway with this type of thing though is that you should only be spending money on stuff that you really love the layout/workflow on, because if sound is all you're after, you can get awesome sounds out of free stuff :D
My computer is not that old it's a 3 year old i5 and its having problems running Abalten and Akais Daw and Analog lab V. Nothing more anything then going to make some music and then computer plays up. I bought just over £1000 worth of physical sythersizors so I can just tern them on and play, no crashing PC to mess with.
Nah, this is straight copium.
@@HOLLASOUNDS you need a better computer, not more synths
@@manny_f Correct however I bought Reason 12 and that runs perfectly, it's a shame other DAWs dont. I do obviously need a new computer as Arturia plugins dont work either.
@@HOLLASOUNDS I used reason in the past and I always found it to be a very efficient DAW. I didn't gel with the whole rack thing back then now that I have a few modular bits of gear I might revisit it.
I love analog synths. But having everything as it was the last time I messed with it yesterday or two years down the road is very tough to argue against... especially when I can replace my virtual synths with hardware synths via MIDI at almost any time.
Very powerful!
I really needed to hear this. Been going down the hardware rabbit hole since highschool. Finally have a nice dawless setup but I'm thinking about adding a computer to the mix. Roland cloud offers some nice options to load in my MC-707.
My biggest message is always to see if you can accomplish what you want with what you have already. 90% of the people I talk to already have enough.
Impressed that you have a nice dawless setup!
@@VultureCulture yeah just started posting what I've been making with it now. The MC-707 was like a dream come true. I love that Drum Machine styled sequencing.
I used a lot of soft synth like sylenth1 and other free vst and common vst synths and effects. Still I use them most of time. And lots of samples if they do the work in the composition. Because I work a lot, I have money but not time to make some sound that a sample pack can do. Recently I bought a korg prologue 16 because was on special price and I wanted the real stuff. Also you can use it as midi or usb controller so win win. Finally I am understanding the knobs and touching them. With soft synth I only used presets.
I love the prologue and I think it's great that hands on interface is getting you into making your own sounds
Even through cheap laptop speakers, version B sounds way better to me. A sounds sterile, has too much high end, and if I was using it I would want to do something OTB - even if it was passing it through a cheap ART or Behringer isolating transformer or passive DI or something and back into interface - to help smooth out the leading edges of the waveforms and add a little harmonic distortion. It's possible to get there ITB (there are a lot of Airwindows plugins that do a good job) but it takes a lot more time and effort.
Haven't watched past the 1:00 mark yet but I don't even need to to know that B is the hardware synth and I prefer it.
But that said, either one is going to make a person's music or production better (or worse) and both have advantages and disavantages. You don't NEED to choose between hardware and software.
Good ears! 👂
Bro, you racked up a lot of good karma with this video. A lot of people need to hear this. Hardware is dope but it's expensive big boy toys. I love them but newbies do need to know that software synths are EXACTLY the same thing under the hood.
I don't want any beginners to not make music because they can't afford hardware.
It helps to listen on decent studio speakers with very very little correction EQ. Soon as I took the EQ range back up to +2dB on lows they both sounded fat - Version A was too in tune and boring. Version B sounded perfectly imperfect making me think twice about going back to VSTs
Thank you from preventing me from getting sucked into a bad splurge. I've been debating between dropping good money on a hardware wavetable synth instead of sticking with Serum and Vital, simply because I have automatically been under the impression that something about the knobs will make it sound better. In reality, I have everything I need. I have good VST synths and sound design plugins, and a physical MS-20 to warm things up. Why was I about to drop money on this thing? Commodity fetishism. That's literally it. Not that I couldn't guess which one was analog, but in guessing I realized how insignificant the difference is by the time the mix is completed.
Would you say that the same principle goes for DJ controllers? Can someone do as good a set using a 300 dollar Pioneer as they could a 700 dollar Hercules(or whatever the pro standard is)? Or is that a less well-democratized niche?
I would say that goes even more with DJ controllers nowadays. Talk about an industry repackaging the same shit but adding extra LED's and charging more lol.
Glad I could help save you some money 🙏
Thank you, seriously, for pulling me out of the rabbit hole I was in.
Glad to help! It's all about what you do with the synths, not if they're expensive or cheap, hardware or software.
@@VultureCulture I love gear but anything can he an unhealthy addiction if you let it. I had a Subsequent 37 in a cart for a few days tempting me and RUclips suggestions were relentless. Thank goodness yours was recommended as well. I may get one one day but come on, I have so much more to do in vst before then to prove I would really benefit from it. Cheers
I'm glad RUclips's algorithms did a good job recommending a balance of viewpoints!
The Sub37 is definitely a cool synth, and not crazy expensive for Moog, but it's also nothing that isn't well emulated in software.
Check this puppy out: www.pluginboutique.com/products/6888-Model-72-Synthesizer-System?currency=USD&force_country=US&gclid=CjwKCAjw2ZaGBhBoEiwA8pfP_nYn1f2X4ouIXoDcVZ0I0kw0-0H-pnKzaVd4-kZPfiQsPmJU3ZiItRoCQV8QAvD_BwE
@@VultureCulture I love the model 72 and the Model 84 Juno from Softube. I have them both and more. I should be content! I would like a few recommendations on good feeling midi knob/slider controllers. I have the arturia keylab 49 but the knobs kinda suck as you have to turn them 3 to 4 times to make one round in most synths.
My favorite midi controller right now is the Nektar Impakt GX, but since it doesn't have knobs I can't vouch for it's bigger brother:
www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ImpactLX49P--nektar-impact-lx49-keyboard-controller
However for $169 it's not a bad gamble to try out. I'm sad to hear the Arturia isn't working for you, I wish there was a way to control knob sensitivity in the firmware or something.
I APPRECIATE THIS video a LOT. As a relative newbie in the past year (and just a hobby-ist) I didn't know where to start. I had a D-20 as a kid that was impossible to program and sequence with. I Picked up an Arturia Keylab Essential 61 at Guitar Center and the guy also sold me an "outdated" Analog Labs VC6 package for $40!! Then I got Logic ProX to use as a DAW. All in I spent about $600 including Presonus monitors and I'm completely overwhelmed with how much I've got at my fingertips! Now, I still see the draw to having a real and versatile hardware synth (like a Roland System-8 or a Deepmind 12) to engage in a different creative flow away from my Mac....but for now I think I've got my bases pretty well covered for quite some time.
That's the shit I like to hear! It seems like most of the hardware guys factor out the cost of things like monitors and daws, which are critical to the process if you want to create professional sounding music.
Cheers and good luck on your adventures making music! With what you've got you're not going to need to spend another dime for a long time - except maybe on some drum samples, I'm a big fan of Ghost Syndicate 👻
Hey. What would recommend as Controller for Software synthesizer?
I use an Alesis VI61 because it is the cheapest 61-key midi controller with aftertouch aside from the Nektar one which I found to have connectivity issues with my DAW. If you're okay with 49 keys the choices get a lot cheaper. Would not recommend Native Instruments. www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/VI61--alesis-vi61-keyboard-controller
@@VultureCulture thx
I guess it depends if you want to record music or just jam. If you just want to jam then you don’t need to buy a computer or an interface so a couple of bits of hardware could actually be a cheaper option overall. Especially if you buy second hand.
Idk about that. Computers are so inexpensive nowadays - $400 for a computer or $400 for a Circuit tracks, I wonder which would get you more mileage 🤔
Just in case you needed another reason (and you really don't :P) to get Reaper over literally any other DAW, they never lock the program even after the trial ends, you just have to wait for the timer to run out. Thank you Cockos, you guys are LEGENDS and praise-worthy!
And thank you Mr. Vulture for speaking so plainly, not an expert myself but pretty much everything you've said makes a lot of sense and is something I've felt many times myself when watching those reviews.
I appreciate you very much! And yes REAPER is awesome! 🙏
Thank you! I have some expensive hardware; I also have a couple cool software synths. In the seven years I’ve been recording music, probably less than a dozen of the 130 plus pieces I’ve recorded have been done on the hardware. For me, both modalities have their place. And, I prefer recording with software.
Everyone should work with what they like best - I only advocate for software equality especially for beginners.
For those of us who'd rather save on CPU and RAM, hardware sound modules are the way to go. Look at the Roland Integra 7! 6000 sounds that you can load up to 16 instances, one midi channel per track! 8 audio outs! Think of what you can record into a track with 16 powerful emulations and synths PLUS whatever you decide to accompany them with in-the-box.
I have an Integra 7 and I agree that it’s a great module that just does most of what you'd need. It's especially nice that it has many of the JV and XV aounds, so it's like getting 30 years of Roland all together. At the same time, many of the sounds are very bread and butter, and a lot of VSTs are actually more interesting in terms of what they can do. But yeah, if you are playing live and don't want to rely on a computer or software or if you just want a huge sound resource, than it's a solid buy.
I was just looking for a Roland Integra-7
After resisting my gasing for a 2K $ analog synth, I just spend 25$ for a chair cushion 'cause I'll be using my DAW a lot more. Gear is such an addiction, this is serious. Thanks for your video!
I'm glad you found it helpful! 🙏
And that's with a freebie synth and as you say not much time. Do the same thing with Diva, Repro, Omnisphere or Dune3 and the difference would be completely indistinguishable. What you do get with hardware is a kind of immediate tactile feedback as you alter the sound and I think these days that's the biggest difference. It's a different workflow that uses different neurons.
What would be really awesome is if Spectrasonics or somebody else came up with a great all-round dedicated midi-controller for Omnisphere.
I currently use the hardware profile of the Korg Prologue in Omnisphere and it's amazing!
one more thing. I own a Arturia Matrixbrute wich I like a lot, but I also have the Model 74 from Softube, a Minimoog clon. If I compare them, I am not sure wich one sounds better to me.
Don´t get me wrong. I love my matrix brute but in my opinion the money difference is crazy. And yes, I have a fairly god audio interface, the UAD apollo 8 and expensive monitors, the tannoy ellipse 10 IDP. I think they costs 6500 € back then. So I can hear tiny sonic differences. Don´t buy expensive gear when you don't need it.
The Softube emulations are *out of this world!*
Literally the best in the market, I don't care what anyone says, their emulations *are* the same sonically as the originals.
This is the smartest video that I've seen on RUclips in a very long time. VSTs have gotten so good that there really is no reason not to use them instead of expensive hardware. What would substitute for OmniSphere? Maybe a $5000 Waldorf Quantum, but then you'd miss out on the amazing Rhodes and pianos in KeyScape. What could replace OB-E? Maybe a $5000 OB-X8, but it's not a big improvement. GX-80 is arguably better than Deckard's Dream or any hardware alternative. And the list goes on. Plus, as you pointed out, VSTs integrate better with DAWs than hardware and you can run multiple instances.
You're right about iPads. Many iPad apps synths are amazing and the're usually cheaper than the PC or Mac versions too.
Personally, I think that it's good to have a workstation as a working board (like a Roland Fantom), but I'm a keyboard player, so I have high standards for my primary interface. Just from a sound standpoint, a cheap MIDI controller is Ok, especially if you don't perform live.
Ten years ago, I still had some issues with VSTs in terms of sound and latency. But, in 2022, my hardware is increasingly sitting idle while I play VSTs instead. Because they often just sound better.
PS. I thought the filter sounded a lttle better definied on B, so that was my (correct) guess. Filters are often the weak point of VSTs. But it was really still a guess, and they both sounded great.
Agree agree agree 👏
There's nothing wrong with a great keybed and I love tweaking knobs too. But if what we care about is the sound good luck replacing Omnisphere - even with a Quantum
It's worth noting that the demo features some of the most vanilla synth sounds, though - I wouldn't say that that makes you completely wrong, though, but there are just some cases where a synth oozes so much character into a track you can't just replicate it with free, generic software. That said, of course, software and hardware are all just tools, and you can get great sounds out of either. However, I love all my hardware synths, guitars, basses, etc. and don't regret buying any of them because they have songs in them that they reveal to me when I touch them, and - while I love software - it has never been able to do that for me. You can't really plug a computer into a speaker and sit on the couch with it on your lap, just noodling around seeing what you can come up with, not to mention making patches on a computer is drudgery while making patches on a well-designed hardware synth is a Zen-like, meditative experience that can calm you down after a long day of work (which of course you will have to do lots of to afford said hardware). Of course, working entirely ITB has a great sense of immediacy I would never deny, and I was working that way for quite a while, but I've been moving myself back to using all (or nearly all) hardware synths, to maintain that connection with the physical world I live in that I think is an important connection in a world where so much creativity is being eaten by AI, even if that connection only lives in my head - it also helps for making sure everything I'm working on can be successfully played out without having a computer on-stage. Most importantly, though, just booting up hardware makes my heart race in a way that software just has never done.
There's nothing wrong with enjoying hardware, I certainly do too.
This video is about letting beginners know they don't have to pay an arm and a leg to be able to make amazing music. And frankly some of the most interesting and evocative sounds I've heard are from Luftrum and Ignacio Longo for Omnisphere.
when recording it you can't tell the difference but playing through a good system live you can definitely tell the difference.
I'm a little skeptical 🤨
You are absolutely hilarious. I really enjoyed this. I'm delving into the world of DAWs and VSTs. I'm sure I don't completely understand synthesizer architecture. I would really enjoy being able to make highly analogue Depeche mode type sounds but have not found a good step-by-step video using a VST that will give me those good buzzy fax machine sounding analog sounds that are a powerhouse when put together. If you have any referrals I would be grateful. Literal step by step A to z. Thanks so much. ☮️✌️🕊️👍💖
I'm glad you enjoyed the video! 🙏
This isn't an a to z tutorial, but this quick video from Reverb goes over the keyboards used by Depeche: ruclips.net/video/GScjMk8sPtM/видео.html
Lots of Emulator II
I guessed wrong. I play or listen to music to "fly". I don't analyse the spaceship first and as long as nothing is bothering me up in the air, I'm not going to worry about what seem to be tiny differences to a non-expert between hardware and software. Spend your time enjoing what is going on inside your own mind, or the endless possibilties of creativity I say. Don't fall for the material distractions too much. Cheers mate.
Agreed 🖤
I like version A better. I was afraid to guess which was which. I love my 3299 euro Kronos but I also love the sound of the 29 euro JP6K VST on my 300 euro 6 year old PC
I agree! There are certain sounds that grab your soul - doesn't matter if it's hard or soft
how do you download tyrell from the link? i'm having trouble figuring it out. thanks for the video!
Make sure your browser is translating from German to English.
There's a section called "The downloads for the software synthesizer TYRELL N6" and under there are several download links. Pick the one that makes the most sense for your system (Mac vs Windows)
at 56yrs old and I have been through a slew of hardware synths, to VST's and a decent controller is all you need. The only thing hardware is good for anymore is EYECANDY. It always looks good in the studio. I mean look at BT he has serious GAS. In fact I have a Korg karma and 6 groove boxes just sitting in the studio , I am in the box 99.9%. And this dude is spot on !!!!!
Omg his studio is insane!! Happy to see his love for the Kawai synths
I completely agree with you! I own a $1,750 System 8 but 99 out of a 100 I use my software. And of a lot of that is freeware! It's amazing how much good free stuff there is. Even the stock plugins that come with any DAW these days. And some of those DAWs even are free! But... I did really get to know (subtractive) synthesis and programming sounds on my System 8 since it's a know per function synth and that helped me understand VSTi's more. But no one NEEDS a expensive synth like that in order to make music.
The System 8 has a really great synth layout - and the way it integrates with the plug outs is better than Juno/Jupiter X IMHO and the sound is more authentic.
Thanks for the comment! 🙏
@@VultureCulture I'm happy RUclips recommended this channel! Instant sub!
I appreciate it! 🙏
I was about to buy a Jupiter X or a System 8. Then I saw this video and woke up. Time to get real.
Like you said - at the end of the day it's about talent. The System 8 is a really cool product with all the plug outs you can load into it. Then again, the Roland Cloud is even more varied.
Learning subtractive synths with a software and a mouse is probably very hard. I tweak around all the time, dial in my sounds from scratch. I need a good keybed, good knobs - that helps me to get to areas where I hardly get with a VST. And about the sound: Bread and butter stuff, ok, but show me a VST which can sound (and perform!!) like PWM malevolent or erica syntrix....
I mean, I learned on software and I think plenty of people nowadays have. I don't see one approach as essentially superior for learning.
BTW aren't most hardware synths these days kind of a computer in a nice box with keys?
There are certainly some, even Arduino-based synths, but analog synths still have a certain mystique not fully-capturable (arguably) in the box.
I went from hardware to software and back to hardware. For me, it just came down to me wanting the simplest set-up and for me that was just having a hardware synth that I can plug and play. Also, all of the sounds that were available to me through software started to become too much. I don't need all of that. It's enough trying to get through the sounds on my hardware synths, let alone Omnisphere with :"a million" presets and that's just ONE plugin.
I totally hear you!
It can be so overwhelming and it doesn't help that so many VST's have a dry, stale sound
I used to be a vst pragmatic. I got some hardware synhs and I can tell there is a diferene in the sound , kind of a character that the vsts don't t match. Some people think are the circuits. Is it important or relevant for the general audience? I think no. Is it important to me when producing? Yes. When vst can't give me what I want, I turn to hardware and they never disappoint.
I hear you, but in my experience that's not always the case. Sometimes I find a product like Undercurrent more inspiring than my 20+ vintage synths.
The only hardware I use is the Virus TI, which isn't even analogue. I find that Diva does Analogue sound better than most hardware does anyway. And in the context of a mix, anything more than 1 or 2 "real" analogue patches are gonna take up all room you have just based on how dense they sound in the arrangement. I'm fine with mostly using softsynths.
Oh, and I prefer A, it sounds warmer. Probably just bass related.
I agree! The Virus sounds incredible and Diva can cover most of your "analogue" patches anyways!
in small room well recording vst can sound better but live in a large club or big bar where hardware stands out keeps up with basses and cuts thur a live mix on stage..there a reason why vintage classic synths demand a high price...room in the music world for both in my book
I love vintage synths and have 20+. But I am under no illusion that they're going to sound better live as compared to in the studio. They can sound great - but I am constantly shocked at how many times VST's beat them out in blind tests I've done.
I knew right away that the version A had been done with the plug in because if felt much more polished and studio like !
Nice!
I'd say it sounded too simple. Not polished. Version B blew me away with all the colors and space.
@@MSHRadio-dj5zn 🙄
Good video, well said. I preferred version 'A' but as you said it is possible to make the Prologue match the Vst. I have been making music using a computer for years. The last two or three I have been considering a hardware synth, for the hands on control. The Prologue 16 and UDO Super 6 are the hardware synths I am most drawn to. That being said I have also been thinking to save the money and purchase a better midi controller, like the Arturia keystep Pro or the Novation SL MK3.
Totally agree! Best wishes and make some incredible music 🎹
@@VultureCulture thank you. All the best to you to.
I like both versions, one more dry and tight the other a bit more fat, I think that the two worlds are compatible and should live side by side , depending simply on wich device gives you the sound you need at a given time
I agree that both sounds are good and different - nothing wrong with liking both.
I work with both, but to my ears, 'B" sounds slightly out of tune which you get with analogue, but not with software, so I picked correctly "B". It's great to have a couple of hardware synths around if you can spare the money for a little old school sonic exploration. Yeah, it is a tough call though, there are so many amazing soft synths to choose from that sound incredible.
Good ears! Yes the VCO's are a little flat - I decided to leave them that way since out of tune is literally what you pay for when you buy a VCO synth lol
I was considering buying a really nice $3000 synth but then I thought about it carefully and watched a few videos including this one and came to the conclusion that even if I had that synthesizer I would still be working at the computer 80% of the time using my cheap midi keyboard since that’s where the majority of the work is being done, plus I’m not even a good keyboard player and I don’t have any intention to be a live performer. Maybe a good pair of headphones and a music production software like logicpro would make more sense.
You can get far with the free OB-Xd synth from DiscoDSP and I use Reaper for my DAW which is only $60