Well done! I think you are so right. If you don't put teachers on a pedestal, they don't fall as hard. We need to filter everything through the Bible. I appreciated this episode.
I love what you had to say about the Created to Be His Helpmeet book. I am the person who struggles having a backbone so I really appreciated hearing you talk about how it maybe isn't meant for women who lean that way like myself - because I VERY much struggle with teachings that come across that way and it absolutely does nothing but reinforce what I already struggle with! That was very helpful for me to hear and helps to process things! You guys are a blessing!
This was so refreshing! So well stated. I love your perspective about spitting out the bones and not worshipping any one teacher. It’s sad to me how bitter people can get about one particular teaching or teacher, which is missing the point. We can learn from teachers, but our ultimate compass needs to be Christ and His Word.
As a brand new believer (thanks to you both whom are apart of my testimony) my loudest prayer has been for discernment for the reasons you have discussed in this video. I'm in south OC and trying to find a church that isn't full of smoke machines and laser beams is almost as hard as finding a full spectrum teacher. I'm accepting the fact that this is all apart of the walk and thankfully his Word helps me sift through it all!
Are you in Southern OC California? Soo many solid churches… Compass Bible church comes to mind. I’m in north OC. Hopefully that’s the area you mean! Praise the Lord for your testimony!
@@julialee143 that's actually where I bought my first Bible a few months ago! The size of the church intimidates me 😵💫 I decided I should start with a small Bible study and go from there. I'm also looking into Vineyard Church. I just don't want to go to a rock concert every Sunday.
Hi, I’m 53 years old. I came across Katie and her mothers videos. I wasn’t raised in a Christian home. I became a Christian when I was young, but I had no idea how to raise my two daughters and son to be Christians. My youngest, my son is serving the Lord and he and his wife are raising their twins to know Christ. My heart breaks because my two older daughters are not serving the Lord and their lives are full of, so much pain and heartache. The majority of the time my husband and I have our seven year old granddaughter and I want so desperately to raise her to know Christ thank you for your ministry. It’s reaching a generation that you don’t even understand keep sharing videos like this the Holy Spirit is changing lives.
Katie mentioned Phylicia Masonheimer. I feel like I've learned more from her Verity ministry in a year than 20 years in the church. I think you would find her very helpful at this stage in your walk.
Wow that’s great you got a Bible from there. Totally get it about being too big or a rock concert😖 ! Here are some more that may be in your area .. Berean Community Church (Irvine), CrossLife Bible Church (Irvine), Faith Bible Church Mission Viejo (laguna Nigel), Mission Bible church (Costa Mesa). Hope you find a solid study to get plugged into:)
I love Debbie pearl! My parents used a lot of their books so I started reading preparing to be a helpmeet as a teenager and I’ve read created to be a helpmeet a couple times since being married and honestly should read it again it because it’s very convicting and helpful for me to be reminded to submit to my husband. I honestly find her advice very biblical! I like their ministry a lot and am grateful for them! The other day our dinner question was if you could be penpals with anyone who would it be and I said Debbie pearl!!!
Elisha and Katie, something I appreciate about your podcast is your apparent desire to measure your thinking by God's Word. For sure, that's the measuring stick we should use. Personally, I want to make a distinction in how I approach a “fallen leader” who seems to have never truly been a believer, versus one who repents. I agree that just because someone is wrong in one area, that does not mean there is nothing we can learn from them. For myself I might just use the terminology of being helped by a leader’s writing or teaching, without saying they are a big influence in my life, depending on who it is. Also, here are some Christian leaders and ministries (both past and present) that have impacted and encouraged me and/or my family in our faith: Douglas Bond, Joel and Mary Beeke, Sarah Mally, Stuart Burgess, Matthew Henry, John Bunyan, Steven Lawson, Lou Priolo Media Gratiae, Chapel Library, Crown and Covenant psalter
This podcast was pure gold! Im saving it for reference. I definitely want to look up some of the ministries you mentioned. Discernment is key!! Thank you for sharing!
Lots of memories as I listen to you both. We raised our children with many of the same resources. Our kids loved Vision Forum for the history books etc. Their catalog was full of treasures. We also were part of ATI and went to the big conferences in Knoxville and Big Sandy. Our kids did ALERT, Excel, & Sound Foundations. We did Wisdom Books and read Character Sketches. It does make me sad to think of what happened with these ministries because they definitely had an impact for good on our family. As a homeschool family when homeschooling was still quite new, it was encouraging to meet others walking the same path.
You guys, I wish you'd put of 2-3 videos or podcasts per week😂😂 They are the highlight of my week! It's always a better day when I get to listen to yoir videos as a transplant or work on house projects! ❤
Thank you for this podcast! I’ve grown up with similar influences and I’m thankful for the different truths I’ve learned from them! My parents, as did yours, but the Bible first and man’s opinions under discernment. I appreciate you both speaking from your own experiences and not going into all the drama. It was refreshing to see people who were thankful for their upbringing and not bitter against their parents or other people.
Thank you so much for sharing so graciously! It was refreshing. I think you stated it so well…you really need to go into any “ministry” knowing you’ll have to take it back to the Bible, because as you stated we’re all sinners. “Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.” -1st Thes.5:21 💛 We attend the Family Conferences by IBLP & use their character curriculum as of the past few years! Eric Ludy & Nathan Johnson were big speakers (Eric the past few years!). I know you look up to Eric, so I hope this encourages you. Lots of good things still coming & solid teaching even though there’s been fallout.
I just found you guys recently and have listened to several videos from 4 and 5 years ago. You reminded me so much of how I grew up and the standards and values that I learned and now I know why! Lol My family was a part of Bill Gothard until I was 15 so that would have been 1993. I feel exactly as you do, look to God first and always bring the Bible to the table. I am not wounded from these ministries or ministers because that is not what a. Christian walk is about. There were so many good nuggets in those ministries and I am who I am today because of them. Thank you for sharing!
I forgot to add I went to a couple of conferences in Knoxville and we only wore the Navy and white to the conference. Lol oh, and the little bow thing at the collar.😂
Wow, I really, really appreciate this one. So much wisdom and discernment shared here! Helpful to parents, helpful to humans. I picked up a biblical teaching that was free at a library sale the other day - two old famous Bible preachers and I almost didn’t take it bc I habe heard/seen some strange clips of them in recent years, also they’re not really my “style” of teacher- but I am enjoying listening to them (where my children can’t here) and I think you guys just articulated why. I am definitely listening with a critical ear but have found most of it biblical so far and probably helpful to me somewhere down the road. Also, Created to be his Helpmate! My sis in law gave it to me when I was engaged and I loved it til about 1/2 way thru where I felt she got a bit strange and dogmatic (considering it a blessing when the Lord releases a woman from an ungodly husband bc of his untimely death?! and the like)… but I do think I’m gonna read at least the first half again with your encouragement, Latie, bc I have a history of good experience with men and usually need to work on not being too pushy- not the other way round. I don’t think everyone knows how to “spit out the bones” and discern, though, so glad you recommended it with a caveat.
I really appreciate your perspective! It's refreshing to me to see other young adults who aren't "all or nothing" into certain teachers. After hearing about the documentary "shiny happy people" I've seen a lot of angry people and a lot of hurt. Many people jumping on bandwagons, and - in my opinion from a distance - exaggerating. Throwing the baby out with the bath water. I agree that we need to use discernment and test everything against God's word. And be willing to grow and learn, without condemning our journey.
Great episode! I love Debbie Pearl’s book Created To Be His Helpmeet. So many misconstrue her book and take it out of context. I wanted to comment about Mark Driscoll. My husband and I were dating at the time of Mars Hill. We visited the main campus often. Mark was not dismissed from ministry at Mars Hill. He was investigated by the elders and the elders determined he was still qualified for ministry. Mark chose to leave Mars Hill and that is how Mars Hill fell apart. I understand he was controversial but I wanted to point this out. Thank you for sharing!
Really appreciated your approach with all of this. My parents also raised us to have discretion and to always go back to the Bible when reading literature/ or any form of info. Intake and I do believe that prevented so many issues. I also appreciated your statement of giving grace. Not to say those in leadership are free to sin and do whatever they would like but way too often isolated situations or words are taken way out of context to prove their error and any good they were teaching is completely disregarded. My parents would say in those cases, “ Don’t through the baby out with the bath water”
Wow! I love this! I love your focus on God and the Bible and how we are all fallible! I too appreciate Debi Pearls book...dont agree with everything, but I struggle with being controlling. You two are a " breath of fresh air".
I think you hit the nail on the head, we can not elevate man above Jesus. I grew up with an ultra religious father, who jumped on so many different bandwagons. We were never taught how to study the Bible for ourselves. I am doing things differently with my own daughter. I am teaching her how to hold up the teaching to the Word of God. I don't want her to wind up like I did in some very bad situations. I want to add something else. If a church leader commits a crime against anyone, especially ass@ult, r@pe, or any type of abuse, that person should never be immediately removed from the pulpit. Then turned over the the authorities for prosecution to the fullest extent of the law. The victims should have their voices raised not dismissed and should be surrounded by love and support. The church should be helping them to get counseling from a trauma trained licensed counselor.
I liked how you both approached this podcast. I also believe cancel culture has no place in Christianity and we cannot depend on others for our faith, only Christ. It's important for Christian leaders to live their lives with a heart of repentance for their sins.
So glad you said if you see a person in ministry that has questionable content to let others knot and have them test it by God's word. So many take the bible out of context I really appreciate this. I have also discontinued following womens Lifeway ministries due to the teachings & others issues I see. It's so sad, I am looking to put a small group of ladies together where we can just pull the bible out read it and discuss what we are learning like we used to do in the olden days before groups like Lifeway came out!
Have y'all listened to the journalistic podcast "The Rise And Fall of Mars Hill"?? That was not an instance of undue dog-piling. There were investigations and interviews documenting his spiritual abuses of power. (I say this as someone heavily influenced by him & Mars Hill at the height of his influence!)
I grew up in catholic private schools, we always had to adhere to a dress code. For the sake of modesty and the peer group dependence, competitions, it was a relief. It eliminated up and down emotions about clothes, i actually miss dress codes. I think it was representative of early generations also. I have all the IBLP books, etc....love and appreciate it. It came into my life at an early age, not because my family accepted it, they didnt. But it ministered to me as a baby christian and gave me hope of a different way of life and order. I love all of it, have homeschooled 5 , not in ati , but haves used materials. I value it and i dont believe the false accusations against Mr Gothard. I do love that your parents taught you to look to the Lord and His Word, and not to men. That's how we feel. I know many in ati and alert, our boys enjoyed alert. We have to remember , our enemy is the accuser of the brethren and thrives on failures and false accusations. Divide and conquer.
I love NGJ ministries. I am very similar to you Katie in that I need a more meek and quiet and submissive heart lol. Their teaching has helped me to honor my husband, to be selfless, to be diligent in training my children, in letting our family be my ministry, etc. But I am careful to who I recommend the books to based on if they will receive the message clearly. I wish I could have learned from the other ministries you mentioned in the first part of the video that have shut down. Often times I feel conservative, biblical, large family, homeschooling lifestyle is very lonely. I was not raised in any of those things, not even a Christian home, so to come to Jesus and feel called to live such a life, I can't find any relevant resources.
Also we still love you Katie even with your pregnancy brain in full swing lol you need to go get a nap when the kids do. Sincerely, another pregnant mom due in July to baby #4 who never misses a nap haha !
Yes to old school Beth Moore. She went off the rails, but her early stuff was good. Same with IBLP. Good stuff. I love that your momma said “you have to spit out the bones”. THAT’S a good word.
These women might be a bit theologically different from you but I really appreciate Jen Wilkin and Rebecca McLaughlin. Jen Wilkin's studies are no joke, she digs deep into the word, and Rebecca MLaughlin has written some really valuable apologetics content that's very helpful in graciously and wisely engaging with the present culture.
I think I understand that if you came from a healthy/biblical home that these might not seem as bothering looking back. I’m glad to hear your parents never followed all the teachings and you had a wonderful upbringing. So encouraging and what a blessing. The Pearls and Mark Driscoll’s influence really did some damage to me and my siblings. But that was also in part my parents issues and manipulation. So I would be very careful recommending many of these people. I’ve seen how people can use them as an excuse or example for ungodly behavior. I think many people lead others astray by putting out tons of good content and then showing their true selves to those who are close to them. They want the respect and fame but in secret don’t hold to the truth. So when they are exposed (and truly exposed by multiple witnesses and good evidence not just slander) we should take it seriously. I’m not saying you aren’t taking it seriously I’m just cautioning others who may not have been brought up with the discernment you have. I think your parents really prepared you to think critically and be careful. That’s really great. I’ve had to figure it out as an adult and it was tricky. God is faithful and good though. I do appreciate parts of my upbringing and that God used even the bad for my good. I do believe people can react in the wrong way and go way too far the other direction. We should desire to be Bible based ❤ My heart go out to people who were affected by false teaching. Thankful God promises to hold them accountable and also for His grace to correct those who are truly His and keep them from the evil one.
Also I just appreciate you guys and hope you understand my comment. I have a different perspective that’s all I was wanting to share if it would be beneficial to others.
I read Created to Be His Helpmeet and I agree that it’s only for the wife in a healthy non abusive marriage. The same is true for their To Train Up a Child. I stopped reading NGJ material when Mike mentioned something about pointing a broken gun at a child in an ultimatum way.
Hi guys, My husband and I really enjoyed the teaching of Michael pearl, although we don't agree on the gap theory. I also found their child training book interesting, but hesitated to follow it as I can see how it could lead to abuse without proper support and in the wrong hands. The only part of Debi's marriage book is where Michael says if the kids dad has abused them, and he is put in jail, take the kids to visit him to show them he is locked away. That would only further traumitise. I also enjoyed Mark Driscoll. I have also listened to the rise and fall of Mars Hill. And while I can see he may of made bad choices, I cannot deny the teaching I've heard is really God. (Although I'm not a continuist) God bless!
I know you mentioned that you don’t get too caught up on the criticisms of these ministries because they didn’t personally offend you, considering the fall of some of these leaders are secondary to sexual assault, are you so comfortable being dismissive of the fact that a ministry leader did more than “offend” the victims? Shouldn’t we mourn for these victims the way Christ is mourning? And advocate for their safety the way I hope you would for your own daughter? It might be worth mentioning that sex abuse in the church isn’t condoned in your family’s view considering you have a platform to speak out and this is a very prevalent issue that many people have been impacted by. Saying “but that wasn’t my experience” is incredibly harmful for a victim of sex abuse / assault / rape to hear.
You all are so brave to stand on truth we also have benefited from so many of these and like you said you turn to the Bible. The truth is people have twister scripture from the start some of the bad wasn’t the teachers but people twisting it to fit a selfish narrative. Then people hear half the statements and run with it sadly
Hey Katie, just listening in. Who is the author of 'Raising Fair Maidens?' I can't seem to find it? Thanks! :) PS: The books you may be referring to on animals are called "Character Sketches." We really enjoy them! ❤
Here are some awesome teachers of the Word ; Gods Love and grace Nichole Marbach Sandra Mccullom Philem Doherty Debra Mcdermott ( both her sons were healed of autism) Joseph Prince Mike Hoesch Barry Bennett
Actually in this episode you both feel like failed on doing your research more. I did not know nothing about these people and did a quick Google search and I could find what was going on lately with some of these leaders. I respect your opinions (although I do not agree on this subject) but I feel to talk about them and to say I don’t know what has happening lately is kind of an avoidance to be more informed. Again , a quick Google search and you can be more informed.
@@cderry10 exactly I was confused when they would say kind of like well, this person influenced me, I followed their programs, I don’t know currently what is what they are teaching but it was important in my life 😑. It felt like double messages here.
Oh man I loved this podcast!!!! Sooooo good you two!! Personally I will say for someone I followed and read was Josh Harris and the I kissed dating good ye book. Man was that book popular with me and my homeschool friends. When he announced his divorce and also that he no longer is a believer it really depressed me! Just shows that we cannot depend on a human being or put our stock in someone that much. Also I wanted to ask you should I read or not read To train up a child? I just started reading it so should I save my time and not? Lol Also Katie, I also loved Created to be His Helpmeet. I believe most of us women are jezebels. I mean it says right in Genesis 3 and the woman will desire her husband so yes I believe every woman has that natural desire to control her husband and also most women that hate that book are probably convicted by it! On another note have you guys heard of The Transformed wife? She has a website, instagram, Facebook, tik tok and has written some books that you can buy on Amazon. I’m curious on what you think of her. I absolutely love her and feel like she is an older woman for me teaching the young women. Great job guys!
My parents read “To Train up a Child” and it benefited our family. From what I’ve heard, it has a lot of Biblical advice. We were actually just discussing the authors last week at Sunday dinner, and everyone agreed that we don’t recommend any of the Pearl’s newer books. I own “Created To Be His Help Meet”, but I heard that some of it is not Biblical so I haven’t read it. P.S. My parents followed the Bible as they raised their 8 children, and so far every one of us has professed to be born-again and we are all living our lives for God. God’s way still works.
We can learn so much from our Christian Leaders BUT we should NEVER EVER forget that they are, like us, just human! They are NOT 'more holy' than us, and dare I say, they don't always get things right. The problem for us as mature Christians (as in having been saved for a lot of years) is that we don't fall into the trap that Paul found among some followers of the early Church. ' I am happy that none of you call yourselves followers of Paul or followers of Silas...'. .due to who baptised new followers of Jesus. Paul travelled around most of the then known world, but he was very careful not to be the person that people followed, but that they followed 'the way' as in being saved by Jesus Christ. It is easy to make a great teacher that we hear, read, see in podcasts, youtube or books turning into our 'Paul' or our 'Silas' or our ' Timothy'. We can learn alot from them, but they are NOT free from their own faults or somehow closer to God, because they have been blessed with understanding or knowlidge of some scripture, or have a God given ability to explain Biblical consepts that we need to understand. They are not, and never will be, a stand-in for Jesus, and they are not 'closer' to Him than you or me.
eeek... while there certainly may be some things you could glean from some of these, and I don't doubt they have done some good, I would NEVER EVER recommend a number of these to anyone. They're too imbalanced, too confusing. It's not "humorous" to be sadistic or extreme. There's WAYYYYY better stuff out there you guys. Don't waste your time picking out pearls from the mud (pun intended). I highly suggest you do some more research on abuse and how these people/books have contributed to it. Hard complementarianism is just as bad as egalitarianism.
Completly agree with you at 55 min. I wouldn't know much about the sin out there if I didn't hear it in church. Somehow I don't think that should be the case.
Something really interesting to me is hearing each of you talk about learning from followers of God who are not infallible. Which literally includes everyone because perfect people don't exist. And yet you seem to view the Bible as perfect. Your "rock." The source of truth. But it was also written by non infallible humans and includes many of their thoughts, feelings and teachings. This comment is not meant as a challenge. Just a statement of something I don't quite understand. Thought I'd share in case you ever feel like expounding.
Ouch. Michael Pearl? I guess my advice as a 43 year old home churching homesteading homeschool mom of 7 is to follow Christ without trying to view His authority in your life through anyone. I always felt like when we read books that I was constantly dealing with viewing things through their eyes rather than actually having relationship with God and hearing from Him how to lovingly teach my kids. The Bible and Holy Spirit will convict us when we’re not speaking the truth or using anger or anything unlike Christ. The Pearls need a heart change. Not a platform. They belong in the back of the church relearning grace and mercy while speaking the truth. I see these precious hurting families honestly asking for help and he slams them with impatience and disrespect. Kind of like judge Judy. 🤨Not to mention her willingness to promote his unkindness towards her. I do NOT see Jesus in them at all. Just had a random group discussion on IBLP and Pearls and we all agreed with some saying much harder things than I just did. These are all homeschool parents my age and older that were talking about it. God bless you guys. I appreciate lots of your perspectives. And practice them. Less books more Bible and your own heart without so many influences from books. Originality is precious. ♥️♥️♥️Love to you both. Beautiful beautiful family.
Well done! I think you are so right. If you don't put teachers on a pedestal, they don't fall as hard. We need to filter everything through the Bible. I appreciated this episode.
I love what you had to say about the Created to Be His Helpmeet book. I am the person who struggles having a backbone so I really appreciated hearing you talk about how it maybe isn't meant for women who lean that way like myself - because I VERY much struggle with teachings that come across that way and it absolutely does nothing but reinforce what I already struggle with! That was very helpful for me to hear and helps to process things! You guys are a blessing!
🙌 yes!
You both amaze me!!! Your parents did an incredible job and it’s clear your solid foundations will raise up another solid generation!
This was so refreshing! So well stated. I love your perspective about spitting out the bones and not worshipping any one teacher. It’s sad to me how bitter people can get about one particular teaching or teacher, which is missing the point. We can learn from teachers, but our ultimate compass needs to be Christ and His Word.
As a brand new believer (thanks to you both whom are apart of my testimony) my loudest prayer has been for discernment for the reasons you have discussed in this video.
I'm in south OC and trying to find a church that isn't full of smoke machines and laser beams is almost as hard as finding a full spectrum teacher.
I'm accepting the fact that this is all apart of the walk and thankfully his Word helps me sift through it all!
Are you in Southern OC California? Soo many solid churches… Compass Bible church comes to mind. I’m in north OC. Hopefully that’s the area you mean! Praise the Lord for your testimony!
@@julialee143 that's actually where I bought my first Bible a few months ago! The size of the church intimidates me 😵💫 I decided I should start with a small Bible study and go from there. I'm also looking into Vineyard Church. I just don't want to go to a rock concert every Sunday.
Hi, I’m 53 years old. I came across Katie and her mothers videos. I wasn’t raised in a Christian home. I became a Christian when I was young, but I had no idea how to raise my two daughters and son to be Christians. My youngest, my son is serving the Lord and he and his wife are raising their twins to know Christ. My heart breaks because my two older daughters are not serving the Lord and their lives are full of, so much pain and heartache. The majority of the time my husband and I have our seven year old granddaughter and I want so desperately to raise her to know Christ thank you for your ministry. It’s reaching a generation that you don’t even understand keep sharing videos like this the Holy Spirit is changing lives.
Katie mentioned Phylicia Masonheimer. I feel like I've learned more from her Verity ministry in a year than 20 years in the church. I think you would find her very helpful at this stage in your walk.
Wow that’s great you got a Bible from there. Totally get it about being too big or a rock concert😖 ! Here are some more that may be in your area .. Berean Community Church (Irvine), CrossLife Bible Church (Irvine), Faith Bible Church Mission Viejo (laguna Nigel), Mission Bible church (Costa Mesa). Hope you find a solid study to get plugged into:)
I love Debbie pearl! My parents used a lot of their books so I started reading preparing to be a helpmeet as a teenager and I’ve read created to be a helpmeet a couple times since being married and honestly should read it again it because it’s very convicting and helpful for me to be reminded to submit to my husband. I honestly find her advice very biblical! I like their ministry a lot and am grateful for them! The other day our dinner question was if you could be penpals with anyone who would it be and I said Debbie pearl!!!
Elisha and Katie, something I appreciate about your podcast is your apparent desire to measure your thinking by God's Word. For sure, that's the measuring stick we should use.
Personally, I want to make a distinction in how I approach a “fallen leader” who seems to have never truly been a believer, versus one who repents. I agree that just because someone is wrong in one area, that does not mean there is nothing we can learn from them. For myself I might just use the terminology of being helped by a leader’s writing or teaching, without saying they are a big influence in my life, depending on who it is.
Also, here are some Christian leaders and ministries (both past and present) that have impacted and encouraged me and/or my family in our faith:
Douglas Bond, Joel and Mary Beeke, Sarah Mally, Stuart Burgess, Matthew Henry, John Bunyan, Steven Lawson, Lou Priolo
Media Gratiae, Chapel Library, Crown and Covenant psalter
This podcast was pure gold! Im saving it for reference. I definitely want to look up some of the ministries you mentioned. Discernment is key!! Thank you for sharing!
I just want to add your parents and so many others didn’t hav internet to “hear” all the bad. I can’t say enough you all did this beautifully
You guys I am so excited to watch this- I look forward to your videos and always feel inspired afterwards. Thank you both!💖
Thank you for being so vulnerable. I admire you guys and admire you more for that. We all come from somewhere indeed.
Lots of memories as I listen to you both. We raised our children with many of the same resources. Our kids loved Vision Forum for the history books etc. Their catalog was full of treasures. We also were part of ATI and went to the big conferences in Knoxville and Big Sandy. Our kids did ALERT, Excel, & Sound Foundations. We did Wisdom Books and read Character Sketches. It does make me sad to think of what happened with these ministries because they definitely had an impact for good on our family. As a homeschool family when homeschooling was still quite new, it was encouraging to meet others walking the same path.
I also so appreciate "Created To Be His Helpmeet." I've ready it many times too, friend!
Just came to say, those IBLP books were called Character Sketches! My dad used to read them aloud to us.
You guys, I wish you'd put of 2-3 videos or podcasts per week😂😂 They are the highlight of my week! It's always a better day when I get to listen to yoir videos as a transplant or work on house projects! ❤
Thank you for this podcast! I’ve grown up with similar influences and I’m thankful for the different truths I’ve learned from them! My parents, as did yours, but the Bible first and man’s opinions under discernment. I appreciate you both speaking from your own experiences and not going into all the drama. It was refreshing to see people who were thankful for their upbringing and not bitter against their parents or other people.
My husband and I where so blessed by brother Zac Poonen 's teachings...I really cant recommend Him as a bible teacher enough!
Cannot wait to listen!!
Thank you so much for sharing so graciously! It was refreshing. I think you stated it so well…you really need to go into any “ministry” knowing you’ll have to take it back to the Bible, because as you stated we’re all sinners. “Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.” -1st Thes.5:21 💛
We attend the Family Conferences by IBLP & use their character curriculum as of the past few years! Eric Ludy & Nathan Johnson were big speakers (Eric the past few years!). I know you look up to Eric, so I hope this encourages you. Lots of good things still coming & solid teaching even though there’s been fallout.
I just found you guys recently and have listened to several videos from 4 and 5 years ago. You reminded me so much of how I grew up and the standards and values that I learned and now I know why! Lol My family was a part of Bill Gothard until I was 15 so that would have been 1993. I feel exactly as you do, look to God first and always bring the Bible to the table. I am not wounded from these ministries or ministers because that is not what a. Christian walk is about. There were so many good nuggets in those ministries and I am who I am today because of them. Thank you for sharing!
I forgot to add I went to a couple of conferences in Knoxville and we only wore the Navy and white to the conference. Lol oh, and the little bow thing at the collar.😂
Fantastic topic, so timely!!
Wow, I really, really appreciate this one. So much wisdom and discernment shared here! Helpful to parents, helpful to humans.
I picked up a biblical teaching that was free at a library sale the other day - two old famous Bible preachers and I almost didn’t take it bc I habe heard/seen some strange clips of them in recent years, also they’re not really my “style” of teacher- but I am enjoying listening to them (where my children can’t here) and I think you guys just articulated why.
I am definitely listening with a critical ear but have found most of it biblical so far and probably helpful to me somewhere down the road.
Also, Created to be his Helpmate! My sis in law gave it to me when I was engaged and I loved it til about 1/2 way thru where I felt she got a bit strange and dogmatic (considering it a blessing when the Lord releases a woman from an ungodly husband bc of his untimely death?! and the like)… but I do think I’m gonna read at least the first half again with your encouragement, Latie, bc I have a history of good experience with men and usually need to work on not being too pushy- not the other way round.
I don’t think everyone knows how to “spit out the bones” and discern, though, so glad you recommended it with a caveat.
I really appreciate your perspective! It's refreshing to me to see other young adults who aren't "all or nothing" into certain teachers. After hearing about the documentary "shiny happy people" I've seen a lot of angry people and a lot of hurt. Many people jumping on bandwagons, and - in my opinion from a distance - exaggerating. Throwing the baby out with the bath water. I agree that we need to use discernment and test everything against God's word. And be willing to grow and learn, without condemning our journey.
Great episode! I love Debbie Pearl’s book Created To Be His Helpmeet. So many misconstrue her book and take it out of context. I wanted to comment about Mark Driscoll. My husband and I were dating at the time of Mars Hill. We visited the main campus often. Mark was not dismissed from ministry at Mars Hill. He was investigated by the elders and the elders determined he was still qualified for ministry. Mark chose to leave Mars Hill and that is how Mars Hill fell apart. I understand he was controversial but I wanted to point this out. Thank you for sharing!
I didn’t grow up in a Christian home and loved the help meet book;)
Really appreciated your approach with all of this. My parents also raised us to have discretion and to always go back to the Bible when reading literature/ or any form of info. Intake and I do believe that prevented so many issues. I also appreciated your statement of giving grace. Not to say those in leadership are free to sin and do whatever they would like but way too often isolated situations or words are taken way out of context to prove their error and any good they were teaching is completely disregarded. My parents would say in those cases, “ Don’t through the baby out with the bath water”
Wow! I love this! I love your focus on God and the Bible and how we are all fallible! I too appreciate Debi Pearls book...dont agree with everything, but I struggle with being controlling. You two are a " breath of fresh air".
@@hannahb4835they personally recommended their books to me for child training.
I was so scared to eat this but you all handled this BEAUTIFULLY ❤ thank you down to the dog pile 😂
I think you hit the nail on the head, we can not elevate man above Jesus. I grew up with an ultra religious father, who jumped on so many different bandwagons. We were never taught how to study the Bible for ourselves. I am doing things differently with my own daughter. I am teaching her how to hold up the teaching to the Word of God. I don't want her to wind up like I did in some very bad situations.
I want to add something else. If a church leader commits a crime against anyone, especially ass@ult, r@pe, or any type of abuse, that person should never be immediately removed from the pulpit. Then turned over the the authorities for prosecution to the fullest extent of the law. The victims should have their voices raised not dismissed and should be surrounded by love and support. The church should be helping them to get counseling from a trauma trained licensed counselor.
I completely forgot about Vision Forum. Used to own Large Family Logistics and learned so much from it.
I liked how you both approached this podcast. I also believe cancel culture has no place in Christianity and we cannot depend on others for our faith, only Christ. It's important for Christian leaders to live their lives with a heart of repentance for their sins.
I suggest looking into the lives of the saints!
So glad you said if you see a person in ministry that has questionable content to let others knot and have them test it by God's word. So many take the bible out of context I really appreciate this. I have also discontinued following womens Lifeway ministries due to the teachings & others issues I see. It's so sad, I am looking to put a small group of ladies together where we can just pull the bible out read it and discuss what we are learning like we used to do in the olden days before groups like Lifeway came out!
Amen! God is keeping us. All men shall whither like grass but the word of the LORD endures forever!
Have y'all listened to the journalistic podcast "The Rise And Fall of Mars Hill"?? That was not an instance of undue dog-piling. There were investigations and interviews documenting his spiritual abuses of power. (I say this as someone heavily influenced by him & Mars Hill at the height of his influence!)
I grew up in catholic private schools, we always had to adhere to a dress code. For the sake of modesty and the peer group dependence, competitions, it was a relief. It eliminated up and down emotions about clothes, i actually miss dress codes. I think it was representative of early generations also.
I have all the IBLP books, etc....love and appreciate it. It came into my life at an early age, not because my family accepted it, they didnt. But it ministered to me as a baby christian and gave me hope of a different way of life and order. I love all of it, have homeschooled 5 , not in ati , but haves used materials. I value it and i dont believe the false accusations against Mr Gothard. I do love that your parents taught you to look to the Lord and His Word, and not to men. That's how we feel. I know many in ati and alert, our boys enjoyed alert. We have to remember , our enemy is the accuser of the brethren and thrives on failures and false accusations. Divide and conquer.
I love NGJ ministries. I am very similar to you Katie in that I need a more meek and quiet and submissive heart lol. Their teaching has helped me to honor my husband, to be selfless, to be diligent in training my children, in letting our family be my ministry, etc. But I am careful to who I recommend the books to based on if they will receive the message clearly. I wish I could have learned from the other ministries you mentioned in the first part of the video that have shut down. Often times I feel conservative, biblical, large family, homeschooling lifestyle is very lonely. I was not raised in any of those things, not even a Christian home, so to come to Jesus and feel called to live such a life, I can't find any relevant resources.
Also we still love you Katie even with your pregnancy brain in full swing lol you need to go get a nap when the kids do. Sincerely, another pregnant mom due in July to baby #4 who never misses a nap haha !
Yes to old school Beth Moore. She went off the rails, but her early stuff was good. Same with IBLP. Good stuff. I love that your momma said “you have to spit out the bones”. THAT’S a good word.
These women might be a bit theologically different from you but I really appreciate Jen Wilkin and Rebecca McLaughlin. Jen Wilkin's studies are no joke, she digs deep into the word, and Rebecca MLaughlin has written some really valuable apologetics content that's very helpful in graciously and wisely engaging with the present culture.
My parents met and married at Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa. Pastor Chuck baptized and married my parents. He dedicated my brother and I to the lord.
I think I understand that if you came from a healthy/biblical home that these might not seem as bothering looking back. I’m glad to hear your parents never followed all the teachings and you had a wonderful upbringing. So encouraging and what a blessing.
The Pearls and Mark Driscoll’s influence really did some damage to me and my siblings. But that was also in part my parents issues and manipulation. So I would be very careful recommending many of these people. I’ve seen how people can use them as an excuse or example for ungodly behavior. I think many people lead others astray by putting out tons of good content and then showing their true selves to those who are close to them. They want the respect and fame but in secret don’t hold to the truth. So when they are exposed (and truly exposed by multiple witnesses and good evidence not just slander) we should take it seriously. I’m not saying you aren’t taking it seriously I’m just cautioning others who may not have been brought up with the discernment you have. I think your parents really prepared you to think critically and be careful. That’s really great. I’ve had to figure it out as an adult and it was tricky. God is faithful and good though.
I do appreciate parts of my upbringing and that God used even the bad for my good. I do believe people can react in the wrong way and go way too far the other direction. We should desire to be Bible based ❤ My heart go out to people who were affected by false teaching. Thankful God promises to hold them accountable and also for His grace to correct those who are truly His and keep them from the evil one.
Also I just appreciate you guys and hope you understand my comment. I have a different perspective that’s all I was wanting to share if it would be beneficial to others.
I read Created to Be His Helpmeet and I agree that it’s only for the wife in a healthy non abusive marriage. The same is true for their To Train Up a Child. I stopped reading NGJ material when Mike mentioned something about pointing a broken gun at a child in an ultimatum way.
Hi guys,
My husband and I really enjoyed the teaching of Michael pearl, although we don't agree on the gap theory. I also found their child training book interesting, but hesitated to follow it as I can see how it could lead to abuse without proper support and in the wrong hands. The only part of Debi's marriage book is where Michael says if the kids dad has abused them, and he is put in jail, take the kids to visit him to show them he is locked away. That would only further traumitise.
I also enjoyed Mark Driscoll. I have also listened to the rise and fall of Mars Hill. And while I can see he may of made bad choices, I cannot deny the teaching I've heard is really God. (Although I'm not a continuist)
God bless!
I know you mentioned that you don’t get too caught up on the criticisms of these ministries because they didn’t personally offend you, considering the fall of some of these leaders are secondary to sexual assault, are you so comfortable being dismissive of the fact that a ministry leader did more than “offend” the victims? Shouldn’t we mourn for these victims the way Christ is mourning? And advocate for their safety the way I hope you would for your own daughter? It might be worth mentioning that sex abuse in the church isn’t condoned in your family’s view considering you have a platform to speak out and this is a very prevalent issue that many people have been impacted by.
Saying “but that wasn’t my experience” is incredibly harmful for a victim of sex abuse / assault / rape to hear.
Hello. I'm curious what is controversial about Francis Chan. I don't think I quite caught that part. Thanks in advance.
You all are so brave to stand on truth we also have benefited from so many of these and like you said you turn to the Bible. The truth is people have twister scripture from the start some of the bad wasn’t the teachers but people twisting it to fit a selfish narrative. Then people hear half the statements and run with it sadly
My first three kids are spaced very close due to my influence by Nancy Campbell. I still adore her, but no longer follow her teachings to a T.
Hey Katie, just listening in. Who is the author of 'Raising Fair Maidens?' I can't seem to find it? Thanks! :)
PS: The books you may be referring to on animals are called "Character Sketches." We really enjoy them! ❤
Here is the link to the book - amzn.to/3Iio90S :)
Thank you! Appreciate it. ❤
Here are some awesome teachers of the Word ; Gods Love and grace
Nichole Marbach
Sandra Mccullom
Philem Doherty
Debra Mcdermott ( both her sons were healed of autism)
Joseph Prince
Mike Hoesch
Barry Bennett
Actually in this episode you both feel like failed on doing your research more. I did not know nothing about these people and did a quick Google search and I could find what was going on lately with some of these leaders. I respect your opinions (although I do not agree on this subject) but I feel to talk about them and to say I don’t know what has happening lately is kind of an avoidance to be more informed. Again , a quick Google search and you can be more informed.
Absolutely. Felt like a lot of damage control / trying to distance themselves from dangerous leaders who are clearly still influencing their beliefs.
@@cderry10 exactly I was confused when they would say kind of like well, this person influenced me, I followed their programs, I don’t know currently what is what they are teaching but it was important in my life 😑. It felt like double messages here.
Oh man I loved this podcast!!!! Sooooo good you two!!
Personally I will say for someone I followed and read was Josh Harris and the I kissed dating good ye book. Man was that book popular with me and my homeschool friends. When he announced his divorce and also that he no longer is a believer it really depressed me! Just shows that we cannot depend on a human being or put our stock in someone that much.
Also I wanted to ask you should I read or not read To train up a child? I just started reading it so should I save my time and not? Lol
Also Katie, I also loved Created to be His Helpmeet. I believe most of us women are jezebels. I mean it says right in Genesis 3 and the woman will desire her husband so yes I believe every woman has that natural desire to control her husband and also most women that hate that book are probably convicted by it!
On another note have you guys heard of The Transformed wife? She has a website, instagram, Facebook, tik tok and has written some books that you can buy on Amazon. I’m curious on what you think of her. I absolutely love her and feel like she is an older woman for me teaching the young women.
Great job guys!
I like the transformed wife too! She’s so sweet and I’ve gained a lot of wisdom from her! But oh boy is she controversial 😂
@@simplified_faith7545 sweet?
My parents read “To Train up a Child” and it benefited our family. From what I’ve heard, it has a lot of Biblical advice. We were actually just discussing the authors last week at Sunday dinner, and everyone agreed that we don’t recommend any of the Pearl’s newer books. I own “Created To Be His Help Meet”, but I heard that some of it is not Biblical so I haven’t read it.
P.S. My parents followed the Bible as they raised their 8 children, and so far every one of us has professed to be born-again and we are all living our lives for God. God’s way still works.
@@bigfatdogby if you watch her videos you will see yes she is very sweet. But if you just read her posts then you won’t think that lol
We can learn so much from our Christian Leaders BUT we should NEVER EVER forget that they are, like us, just human! They are NOT 'more holy' than us, and dare I say, they don't always get things right. The problem for us as mature Christians (as in having been saved for a lot of years) is that we don't fall into the trap that Paul found among some followers of the early Church. ' I am happy that none of you call yourselves followers of Paul or followers of Silas...'. .due to who baptised new followers of Jesus. Paul travelled around most of the then known world, but he was very careful not to be the person that people followed, but that they followed 'the way' as in being saved by Jesus Christ. It is easy to make a great teacher that we hear, read, see in podcasts, youtube or books turning into our 'Paul' or our 'Silas' or our ' Timothy'. We can learn alot from them, but they are NOT free from their own faults or somehow closer to God, because they have been blessed with understanding or knowlidge of some scripture, or have a God given ability to explain Biblical consepts that we need to understand. They are not, and never will be, a stand-in for Jesus, and they are not 'closer' to Him than you or me.
I highly recommend Grace Based Parenting by Tim Kimmel...
The Duggars have ruined Bill Gothard for eternity!
They seem they don’t like grace based parenting either based on their recent parenting episode :/
@@cderry10 that is SO sad!!!
eeek... while there certainly may be some things you could glean from some of these, and I don't doubt they have done some good, I would NEVER EVER recommend a number of these to anyone. They're too imbalanced, too confusing. It's not "humorous" to be sadistic or extreme. There's WAYYYYY better stuff out there you guys. Don't waste your time picking out pearls from the mud (pun intended). I highly suggest you do some more research on abuse and how these people/books have contributed to it. Hard complementarianism is just as bad as egalitarianism.
Completly agree with you at 55 min. I wouldn't know much about the sin out there if I didn't hear it in church. Somehow
I don't think that should be the case.
Something really interesting to me is hearing each of you talk about learning from followers of God who are not infallible. Which literally includes everyone because perfect people don't exist. And yet you seem to view the Bible as perfect. Your "rock." The source of truth. But it was also written by non infallible humans and includes many of their thoughts, feelings and teachings. This comment is not meant as a challenge. Just a statement of something I don't quite understand. Thought I'd share in case you ever feel like expounding.
Ouch. Michael Pearl? I guess my advice as a 43 year old home churching homesteading homeschool mom of 7 is to follow Christ without trying to view His authority in your life through anyone. I always felt like when we read books that I was constantly dealing with viewing things through their eyes rather than actually having relationship with God and hearing from Him how to lovingly teach my kids. The Bible and Holy Spirit will convict us when we’re not speaking the truth or using anger or anything unlike Christ. The Pearls need a heart change. Not a platform. They belong in the back of the church relearning grace and mercy while speaking the truth. I see these precious hurting families honestly asking for help and he slams them with impatience and disrespect. Kind of like judge Judy. 🤨Not to mention her willingness to promote his unkindness towards her. I do NOT see Jesus in them at all. Just had a random group discussion on IBLP and Pearls and we all agreed with some saying much harder things than I just did. These are all homeschool parents my age and older that were talking about it. God bless you guys. I appreciate lots of your perspectives. And practice them. Less books more Bible and your own heart without so many influences from books. Originality is precious. ♥️♥️♥️Love to you both. Beautiful beautiful family.
I am very perplexed as to why you wouldn't follow anyone other than John MacArthur, Steve Lawson, RC Sproul, Paul Washer or Voddie Bauchman.
Keep heading down this path, read some of the church Fathers, and you might even end up Catholic!
All are controversial and abusive. Just stop it