@@BunnyWatson-k1w He got his BA from Grand Canyon - which is a diploma mill. He got his MA from Fuller, which is a legitimate, christian school. He does prove the old adage, thought, that many things besides thermometers are graduated with degrees, without any knowledge.
But it is something Christians always do... circular logic. Why is the bible true? Because the Bible says so 🤣 And this is even before go into all the contradictions within the text itself...
@@saschamilenkovic4320 But does it actually say so? I don't think I've ever seen something like that quoted. All I usually hear is the "all scripture is inspired" thing, which has problems both with the definition of "scripture" (approximately OT and related material, *not* NT) and inspired (actually meant something more like "usable", literally "alive", definitely not "inspired"). True? Not there at least.
@KaiHenningsen Yes, it does. There are definitive claims being made about Jesus and his divinity in the Gospels. This is not a matter of interpretation, it's there in black and white (especially in the Gospel of John). And as such these claims can be questioned and tested. There are also many quotes in the Gospels that misrepresent the passages in Tanakh they are referring to. This can also be investigated and questioned. Yes there are more than fourty thousand Christian denominations and each put emphasis on different parts of scripture or interpret them differently but that does not mean there is an underlying core narrative they all buy into to varying degrees.
The Almighty creator of the universe and His Son who died on the cross for humanity and the Holy Spirit who lives in all believers. This God failed to prevent some Greek letters from being changed during early morning copying. Very powerful God indeed.
The more I watch these debates the slimier (is that a word?) Christian apologists seem to be. Instead of standing firm on whatever it is they are trying to defend, they always seem to employ tactics to either slander their opponents character or some other shady trick that is completely off topic. The question was whether or not God’s word could be inspired if there are variants in the texts - and instead of answering that James White unsuccessfully tried to change the subject.
well,I do agree with you that one of the words you can describe these chrishchun apologists is slimy,but I tend to think that religious,specifically chrishchuns training irreversibly undermines critical reasoning faculties,but it is true to its rabbinical talmudic tradition, where sophistry is the strived for aim,not seeking the truth.
White: "so just to clarify, so everyone understands, even though you have shown my claims are highly improbable, historically dubious and linguistically untenable, and that I am most certainly not a scholar but just a decent selective researcer...you can't demonstrate that in the 37598th multiverse I COULD be right, is that correct?" Ehrman: "of course" White: "I win"
It's funny; White never used to call the Bible (as he does now) "an artifact" of God's Word... and I think Bart here may have had something to do with that! If this younger version of James White met today's, he'd say that's heresy!
Without reference in any way to Part 1, this is actually a video of James White asking questions of Bart Ehrman. To "grill" someone is to ask searching questions, and in this video Mr Ehrman asks no questions at all.
Bart is consistent. The back and forth just shows how ridiculous it is to think that any God would intend written documents to be the PRIMARY means of communicating His will. They are SECONDARY! God could speak to everyone directly but doesn't as that would defeat the purpose of learning and choosing and growing in this life. Still He speaks to the heart and mind of the individual for guidance and more directly to called mouthpieces to lead the group when He wants to have a covenant people (this has been the consistent pattern!). The problem is people either stone the prophets or close the cannon and end public revelation after the last prophet that suits them. Those that still believe public revelation is a possibility get bogged down on the details of how to judge a prophet by the written texts until, in essence, they have precluded almost any possible recognition of a true messenger when one comes if it doesn't fit their interpretation. Many have claimed to be prophets (and I don't mean future tellers, but mouthpieces of deity for leading the people) but how many have successfully gathered a people who don't immediately close the cannon upon that prophet's death. What we need to see is a group that doesn't close off the possibility of public revelation, but rather adds to scripture and interprets with authority as has always been the pattern, and continues with that same apostolic/prophetic authority for a couple centuries. THEN ask and see if God might be doing something much more obviously sensible...or don't ask with intent because your theology already dismisses any public revelation or disqualifies any you've seen by your own (perhaps uninformed) judgement. If there is a God, and He has any plan for any of this, and He wants to communicate that plan, He will do it by calling a LIVING oracle, and if you are truly seeking He will show you how to find his representatives, or maybe will even call you to be one (but it is has always been a hazardous job).
No literature is perfect. However, these days, plagiarism is carefully watched and checked. Students and writers are forbidden to do it, but allowed to use the work of others if they refer to the original sources. That was not the case in Roman Empire times.
Romans 3.7. “For if the truth of God hath more abounded through MY LIE unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner? King James Bible. This passage shows Paul admitting to be a liar! He is justifying his lies by saying ‘if I can fool people into becoming (Paulian) Christians then does it really matter that I lie’ !?!? He is teaching Christians to deceive in order to further HIS cause, a Christian version of Islamic ‘Taqiyya’.
I will never understand why people waste so much time trying to microanalyze the bible. A bunch of people wrote a bunch of stuff and later a bunch of people tried to figure out what should and should not be included in this compendium of these stories. OK. So what? None of it proves the existence of anything. Not god, not Moses, not Noah, not Jesus or anything or anybody else. What an incredible waste of time.
Bart became my favorite author when I studied. Here is my latest and greatest. The universe is governed by laws. ...in hope that creation itself would be set free from slavery to corruption (Rom 8:20-21 NABO) YHWH and Christ, in becoming the Snake (Serpent) and the Worm, bore that corruption, in demonstration of the Spirit and of ability: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God (1Co 2:4-5) For the Spirit scrutinizes everything, even the depths of God. (1Co 2:10 NABO)That the just demands of the law might be fulfilled in us, who live... according to the spirit (Rom 8:4 NABO) Strike at my heel, will you! You little deceiver. Save me, I pray, from the hand of my brother Esau! (Gen 32:12 NABO) Esau ran to meet him, embraced him, and flinging himself on his neck, kissed him as he wept. (Gen 33:4 NABO) YHWH is shaking in his boots. No one comes to the Father you spring from, Santa Claus, except through me, Krampus. We are to accept that we are sinners. They... acknowledged themselves to be strangers and aliens on earth (Heb 11:13 NAB) What is YHWH that the Son of Man is mindful of him? For the Spirit scrutinizes everything, even the depths of God. (1Co 2:10 NABO) there are, to be sure, many Gods and many Lords, yet for us there is one God, the Father (of the Son of David), (1Co 8:5-6 NABO) God is Spirit, and those who worship him must worship in Spirit and truth. (Joh 4:24 NAB) People can't walk on water. Donkeys can't talk. The waters (people) parting for Moses is better known as the highway in the wasteland. The story of Joshua is better known as the Holocaust. Two appearances, within the same generation. Arjuna questions Krishna on the consequences of going to war and becomes Job wondering why he suffers for no apparent reason.
Ehrman's basis of argument is like shifting sand. One minute it's about the textual variants, then it's about theology, then it's a fusion of the two. He's a constant moving target. But don't worry: we've got him covered by the truth presented in the text. That is, it's not a matter of whether what is written is original, but simply of whether what is written is truth. And it is obviously truth, for if it was obviously false, all you pseudo-intellectuals commenting here, wouldn't be interested. You don't give this sort of attention to stories about Peter Pan do you?
It’s dealt with because it’s human ignorance. It’s generates the kind of human hatred for examples from your comment. Hatred gets called out. Welcome to planet earth.
@@lawrence1318 I'll fix it for you. I think I see a confusing apostrophe s. It’s dealt with because it is human ignorance. It generates the kind of human hatred for example like from your comment. Hatred gets called out. Welcome to planet earth. Better, or I can always get my granddaughter to explain it? By the way, it replies to the absolute garbage fallacy you started the thread with.
One of these guys keeps his intellectual integrity intact and it’s not JW.
Erhman is honest
The other guy...not so much.
We atheist apologize for asking for perfection from a being theist claim created the universe !! 😂😂😂
and one who wants to torture its imperfect subjects forever (depending on interpretation) for being imperfect.
"Dr." James White should stop wasting his time pontificating and start using his time getting a real degree.
Or just learning something about the subjects he pontificates on?
Both. He has no real credential degree and doesn’t know jack shit about anything.
James got his two doctorates (Theology and Ministry) from an online college.
@@BunnyWatson-k1w He got his BA from Grand Canyon - which is a diploma mill. He got his MA from Fuller, which is a legitimate, christian school.
He does prove the old adage, thought, that many things besides thermometers are graduated with degrees, without any knowledge.
Well done Bart! That was an annoying fellow.
Using Bible passages to defend Bible passages isn't compelling "evidence."
But it is something Christians always do... circular logic. Why is the bible true? Because the Bible says so 🤣
And this is even before go into all the contradictions within the text itself...
@@saschamilenkovic4320 it is if you if you're defending the same in-fiction universe. :)
@@saschamilenkovic4320 But does it actually say so? I don't think I've ever seen something like that quoted. All I usually hear is the "all scripture is inspired" thing, which has problems both with the definition of "scripture" (approximately OT and related material, *not* NT) and inspired (actually meant something more like "usable", literally "alive", definitely not "inspired"). True? Not there at least.
@KaiHenningsen Yes, it does. There are definitive claims being made about Jesus and his divinity in the Gospels. This is not a matter of interpretation, it's there in black and white (especially in the Gospel of John).
And as such these claims can be questioned and tested.
There are also many quotes in the Gospels that misrepresent the passages in Tanakh they are referring to. This can also be investigated and questioned.
Yes there are more than fourty thousand Christian denominations and each put emphasis on different parts of scripture or interpret them differently but that does not mean there is an underlying core narrative they all buy into to varying degrees.
@Mikemenn Silly claim with no substance. What am I defending?
Spending eternity with the god of the Bible ? No thanks
Who wants to live forever with a malicious, controlling narcissist? I sure don't.
The Almighty creator of the universe and His Son who died on the cross for humanity and the Holy Spirit who lives in all believers. This God failed to prevent some Greek letters from being changed during early morning copying. Very powerful God indeed.
Er ... Christians existed before any written word of God existed. So you are without excuse.
The more I watch these debates the slimier (is that a word?) Christian apologists seem to be. Instead of standing firm on whatever it is they are trying to defend, they always seem to employ tactics to either slander their opponents character or some other shady trick that is completely off topic.
The question was whether or not God’s word could be inspired if there are variants in the texts - and instead of answering that James White unsuccessfully tried to change the subject.
well,I do agree with you that one of the words you can describe these chrishchun apologists is slimy,but I tend to think that religious,specifically chrishchuns training irreversibly undermines critical reasoning faculties,but it is true to its rabbinical talmudic tradition, where sophistry is the strived for aim,not seeking the truth.
‘Dr’ James White “how could there have been any revelation given…..” You’re getting warm - THERE WAS NO REVELATION - Ever to anybody!
White: "so just to clarify, so everyone understands, even though you have shown my claims are highly improbable, historically dubious and linguistically untenable, and that I am most certainly not a scholar but just a decent selective researcer...you can't demonstrate that in the 37598th multiverse I COULD be right, is that correct?"
Ehrman: "of course"
White: "I win"
*Checkmate atheists* ✔️
It's funny; White never used to call the Bible (as he does now) "an artifact" of God's Word... and I think Bart here may have had something to do with that! If this younger version of James White met today's, he'd say that's heresy!
How could you ever recognize an original first manuscript ? What would that look like ?
Without reference in any way to Part 1, this is actually a video of James White asking questions of Bart Ehrman.
To "grill" someone is to ask searching questions, and in this video Mr Ehrman asks no questions at all.
Agreed. Title is wrong.
He grilled him, roasted him, rolled him up in a spliff and smoked him.
Bart is consistent. The back and forth just shows how ridiculous it is to think that any God would intend written documents to be the PRIMARY means of communicating His will. They are SECONDARY!
God could speak to everyone directly but doesn't as that would defeat the purpose of learning and choosing and growing in this life.
Still He speaks to the heart and mind of the individual for guidance and more directly to called mouthpieces to lead the group when He wants to have a covenant people (this has been the consistent pattern!).
The problem is people either stone the prophets or close the cannon and end public revelation after the last prophet that suits them. Those that still believe public revelation is a possibility get bogged down on the details of how to judge a prophet by the written texts until, in essence, they have precluded almost any possible recognition of a true messenger when one comes if it doesn't fit their interpretation.
Many have claimed to be prophets (and I don't mean future tellers, but mouthpieces of deity for leading the people) but how many have successfully gathered a people who don't immediately close the cannon upon that prophet's death.
What we need to see is a group that doesn't close off the possibility of public revelation, but rather adds to scripture and interprets with authority as has always been the pattern, and continues with that same apostolic/prophetic authority for a couple centuries. THEN ask and see if God might be doing something much more obviously sensible...or don't ask with intent because your theology already dismisses any public revelation or disqualifies any you've seen by your own (perhaps uninformed) judgement.
If there is a God, and He has any plan for any of this, and He wants to communicate that plan, He will do it by calling a LIVING oracle, and if you are truly seeking He will show you how to find his representatives, or maybe will even call you to be one (but it is has always been a hazardous job).
No literature is perfect. However, these days, plagiarism is carefully watched and checked. Students and writers are forbidden to do it, but allowed to use the work of others if they refer to the original sources. That was not the case in Roman Empire times.
Your title is backgard. James is "grilling" bart. James is asking the questions. Maybe entitle it "rebutting James White"? or "repulse" or "repel"
Title is "cooked". Maybe it changed? Cooked is very accurate!
Romans 3.7. “For if the truth of God hath more abounded through MY LIE unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
King James Bible.
This passage shows Paul admitting to be a liar! He is justifying his lies by saying ‘if I can fool people into becoming (Paulian) Christians then does it really matter that I lie’ !?!? He is teaching Christians to deceive in order to further HIS cause, a Christian version of Islamic ‘Taqiyya’.
I saw the thumbnail pic at a glance and the title and thought it said “Bart Erhman cooks Walter White and was so confused lol
I will never understand why people waste so much time trying to microanalyze the bible. A bunch of people wrote a bunch of stuff and later a bunch of people tried to figure out what should and should not be included in this compendium of these stories. OK. So what? None of it proves the existence of anything. Not god, not Moses, not Noah, not Jesus or anything or anybody else. What an incredible waste of time.
I dunno, seems like spending a paragraph to explain why something is an incredible waste of time is an incredible waste of… oops, never mind 🐑…
Because of people like you 😂😂
Dear mr. Ehrman, why you are loosing your precious time with this guy who does not understand nothing, I don't want to say that he is stupid!
Bart became my favorite author when I studied. Here is my latest and greatest.
The universe is governed by laws. ...in hope that creation itself would be set free from slavery to corruption (Rom 8:20-21 NABO) YHWH and Christ, in becoming the Snake (Serpent) and the Worm, bore that corruption, in demonstration of the Spirit and of ability: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God (1Co 2:4-5) For the Spirit scrutinizes everything, even the depths of God. (1Co 2:10 NABO)That the just demands of the law might be fulfilled in us, who live... according to the spirit (Rom 8:4 NABO)
Strike at my heel, will you! You little deceiver.
Save me, I pray, from the hand of my brother Esau! (Gen 32:12 NABO)
Esau ran to meet him, embraced him, and flinging himself on his neck, kissed him as he wept. (Gen 33:4 NABO)
YHWH is shaking in his boots. No one comes to the Father you spring from, Santa Claus, except through me, Krampus.
We are to accept that we are sinners. They... acknowledged themselves to be strangers and aliens on earth (Heb 11:13 NAB)
What is YHWH that the Son of Man is mindful of him? For the Spirit scrutinizes everything, even the depths of God. (1Co 2:10 NABO)
there are, to be sure, many Gods and many Lords, yet for us there is one God, the Father (of the Son of David), (1Co 8:5-6 NABO)
God is Spirit, and those who worship him must worship in Spirit and truth. (Joh 4:24 NAB)
People can't walk on water. Donkeys can't talk. The waters (people) parting for Moses is better known as the highway in the wasteland. The story of Joshua is better known as the Holocaust. Two appearances, within the same generation. Arjuna questions Krishna on the consequences of going to war and becomes Job wondering why he suffers for no apparent reason.
James White is not a doctor
"Why won't a God whom demands faith...provide a single, verifiable text of its history?!"
HOW FN IGNORANT?!
Where is that text?
Seems logical to ask that?
Ehrman's basis of argument is like shifting sand. One minute it's about the textual variants, then it's about theology, then it's a fusion of the two. He's a constant moving target.
But don't worry: we've got him covered by the truth presented in the text. That is, it's not a matter of whether what is written is original, but simply of whether what is written is truth.
And it is obviously truth, for if it was obviously false, all you pseudo-intellectuals commenting here, wouldn't be interested. You don't give this sort of attention to stories about Peter Pan do you?
It’s dealt with because it’s human ignorance. It’s generates the kind of human hatred for examples from your comment. Hatred gets called out. Welcome to planet earth.
@@danielpaulson8838 Your comment is incoherent.
@@lawrence1318 Based on your first comment, I don’t doubt the complete confusion. Words are hard.
@@danielpaulson8838 Er ... no. Your comment was ungrammatical and incoherent. Back to English101 for you.
@@lawrence1318 I'll fix it for you. I think I see a confusing apostrophe s.
It’s dealt with because it is human ignorance. It generates the kind of human hatred for example like from your comment. Hatred gets called out. Welcome to planet earth.
Better, or I can always get my granddaughter to explain it?
By the way, it replies to the absolute garbage fallacy you started the thread with.