India Oxenberg on Not Doing The Vow and Her Message to Keith Raniere and Allison Mack (Exclusive)
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- Опубликовано: 17 окт 2020
- Former NXIVM member India Oxenberg opens up to ET about sharing her side of the story -- and her eventual escape from the organization -- in STARZ’s ‘Seduced,’ which comes after HBO’s documentary about the alleged cult, ‘The Vow.’ Oxenberg explains why she didn’t choose to participate in HBO’s version of the story and shares her thoughts about Keith Raniere and Allison Mack today. Plus, the 29-year-old opens up about her relationship with her mother, actress Catherine Oxenberg, who ‘fought like hell’ to save her from NXIVM. ‘Seduced: Inside the NXIVM Cult’ premieres Sunday, Oct. 18, on STARZ.
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Why do they keep referring Allison Mack as a huge actress or “big career”. I knew her from smallville and forgot all about her until NXIVM
but you knew her and we all knew her from Smallville, so she was pretty wide known, that isn't something every small actress has
Smallville was a pretty great show, and she was a pretty huge part of it. It ran for 10 years, and was critically acclaimed for good reason.
I had never heard of Allison Mack before NXIVM or watched Smallville personally.
@@fighterflight lmao right? She was in honey we shrink ourselves and smallville. Def not an “a list “ actress
She became the reason why I watched Smallville. I fantasized about making her my girlfriend. To be honest I still kinda do but after all this stuff who knows.
India said it’s not a competition with The Vow but he keeps putting it down. The Vow was filmed in real time trying to leave and bring Keith and Nxivm down whereas Seduced is India’s perspective. Without those in The Vow India may still be in Nxivm or even charged criminally. As India said any information regarding Nxivm and cults is important.
She was probably quite driven to do something in her own way. Independence and independent thought and action are high priority to someone coming out of a control situation.
@@linden5165 very good point
They are all a bunch of idiots, without the people in the vow she NEVER would have been in any of this.
Sarah is the worst, but the are all cut from the same cloth, spiritually void, narccissts with low IQs.
the fact that none of them have tried to repay all the suckers they reeled in says volumes. And the fact that Sarah still prides herself on being their highest recruiter and what is WORSE is after she had her "epiphany" she still needed to be talked into giving it up because it was her main income, although 30 seconds before she acknowledges she is basically ruining peoples lives.
what a joke, they ALL are.
The Vow is very exploitive. It came off as Mark and Sarah trying to justify recruiting people into the cult. Mark only left that cult because he was going to lose his wife. She saved him from jail time.
@@shlidgn90 People that don't see how culpable these dimwits are drive me nuts.
You know what neither "doc" does? Do a hard numbers collateral damage tally.
On her own, Sarah recruited 2000 people she has said this many times, very proudly.
Also, when she "sees the light" she is still in conflict about leaving because she is close to the top of the pyramid and is making a lot of money.
I feel like "the vow" producers had to agree not to ask them any real hard questions about how they most likely are responsible for people losing their life savings.
Also, Im sorry, you are just a moron if you get branded, especially not knowing what is being branded on u.
it is pathetic, and i just hate that these awful people are once again trying to profit off of their association with this cult
India, be grateful you have Catherine for a mom and she fought to free you till the end. You are so lucky to have such a loving mom, many people don't. Never turn your back on those who love you unconditionally and protect you. Catherine, I got to connect through you awhile back I, youre a real hero.
This girl is just as responsible for DOS as Allison Mack. She was a master as much as she was a slave. The only reason she's not in jail/going to jail is because her mom fought to make that happen.
She's not the hero of this story. Her mom is.
So damn true, all of those a**holes, sarah, nippy, marc.. all belong in prison and should be ordered to make restitution to over 2000 people they conned
I think your point about Allison Mack is very fair, and I also wish people would show a bit of empathy toward her, as they do for India. I think that adults have to be responsible for their actions, and if they truly are, receive compassion. We aren’t better than they are just because we didn’t end up in the same situation. Any human being has this capacity, but I have more respect for people who make poor decisions, admit it, take responsibility, and grow as a result, than, in many ways, people who never experience this degree of humility. It can transform a person in very positive ways, if they change.
My Thoughts Exactly. On the Vow it shows she didn't care and was still on board up until they started arresting everyone!
@@quintuplebanned4267 The problem with these people is they never had a solid foundation. They all come off as flighty, vacuous, silly and wrongly feel superior to others. They are all culpable and all desire to be in prison.
What is most glaring about this "documentary" are the omissions. How much did they steal? Sarah stole from over 2000 people. Probably wiped out a lot of life savings.
And even when she could no longer deny she was part of this pyramid scheme that was ruining lives, she still need to be persuaded to leave her fat pay check.
She is gross. She hasnt expressed true remorse and she clearly hasnt tried to make amends to those she wittingly screwed over.
These core players dont deserve empathy. And by definition empathy means not just to feel compassion but to act upon it. THEIR VICTIMS need the empathy, NOT THEM.
You think you are a critical thinker and superior to those you reply to, but you're not.
You are the one that sees in black and white.
deserve*
I really resent the way she implies “from a woman’s perspective” is de facto a victims perspective. She was both a victim and an abuser and would love to see her take ownership of the latter.
Hear, hear!
Thank you. This feels more like a defense strategy than a genuine account of what really happened.
That was what was interesting about The Vow. Sarah displayed deep regret about her part, even though she was a victim as well.
@@jennareeder8703 Give me a break. She conned over 2000 people into this pyramid scheme and got others to get branded well after she did it. She is nothing but an opportunist.
if she was truly sorry - she WOULD ATONE TO HER VICTIMS. HAS SHE TRIED TO REPAY THEM IN ANY WAY? ANSWER- NO
all she has done is manage to con more people that she is to be pitied
@@stickapot3623 haha ok.
I'm sorry but she also helped to seduce other women to join and be under his spell. Now she has a book!
Exactly! She looks like a manipulator/opportunist.
she would still be in the cult if keith was never busted, remember she was in it to the bitter end. funny how she acts all innocent and victimized now, and is making mucho bux from her VERY OWN documentary.
@@dorothybrown-williams4059 okay-this girl is already rich. Her mother is rich and is the daughter of actual royalty. She was not doing this for money. She JUST started talking about it because she's been in intensive therapy to DEPROGRAM. If you don't think she's a victim you missed the entire point of Seduced and the Vow and how cults work.
Yeah it called being brainwashed, please we ain’t going to sit here and pretend the human psyche is as simple as you make it out to be ! She was a victim, isolated, afraid, starved , beaten and raped into total submission by a sociopath and his favorite slave !
What would have you done if presented with the opportunity that the abuser might cut you some slack for a tiny bit or give you some semblance of advantages if you recruit someone !? Cult leaders reduced your free will to zero, I mean that is what being indoctrinated literally is ! What would you do if you were programmed by a master manipulator to believe you must give him what he demands otherwise you might not survive !?
Y’all don’t understand how a victim of this kind mind works ! It is much more complicated ! She is probably not charged because she has been found to not being able to psychologically make rational deliberate decisions of her own at that time , do to indoctrination, severe sleep deprivation , starvation, and that her recruiting XYZ into the Dos wasn’t actually her deliberate decision as much as a survival tactic inside an environment in which her own survival felt or even was dependent on her recruiting or not ! The decision was actually the cult leader’s ultimately, because it was he who literally had control of everything that was going on in the cult !
But yeah to you all every victim that got coned into DOS it a criminal and a manipulator somehow...and that is from a lack of understanding how human psychology and how you determine someone’s personal guild cause that it’s not how incriminating someone is this kind of situation works , they have to have a minimum of actual agency, like Alisson seams to have had ! There are much more parameters to guilt then that in this case , because we do deal with somebody that did not have full capacity of her brain and was controlled but an abuser and victims turned abusers ! Plus we do not know if she was participating in abuser for her own enjoyment, took initiatives in it like Alisson did ! From what we know she was truly Alisson’s pet to abuse and starve and one that Sociopath’s sex slave ! She has been head by the FBI , and I am sure the law was involved or will be in determine if she had any full responsibility for her actions, which again doesn’t seam to be the case !
True. And she sounds really fake in the interview wirh exaggerated mannerisms . After Keith reinere was arrested she had nowhere to go, so now she can pretend to be “saved”
Her grandmother is Princess Elizabeth of Yugoslavia who is a second cousin to Prince Charles and first cousin of the Duke of Kent. She's well connected. She cooperated with authorities and she's not going to jail.
She is a victim, why would she go to jail?
My family from hell.
And that’s terrible. That’s are a lot of them on the streets..... everyone who had have been part of that “cult” must pay on different levels but at least Jailed.
@@CitDune she is a victim who convinced more innocent people to get inside. With the only purpose to be more important on the inside of her cult.
Is the same way as a criminal organization works..... But if you think the guy who kills 10 kids on a school is not guilty, because he is also a victim of what he had lived in his terrible life, is ok. For you this girl is NOT GUILTY. Than mostly every criminal is not guilty too. Cause no one was born as a bad person, life made them bad and 99% of the criminals suffer in some way, so they are victims too and everyone pays for what they had done wrong. And this young lady needs to pay for what she had done wrong. And thats at least a few years under custody.
@@CitDune She is not a victim...She is complicit. She was Keith's #3.
I was happy to see India come out and tell her story and that her and mom are together again.
I watched “The Vow”, which made me google the court cases, and then read the NYTimes series. All fascinating, but left so very much OUT! I still had so many questions! . The “Seduced” series covered ALL! So well done! Thank you and I wish you the best in your new life.
True. Not sure exactly how nine episodes of The Vow was made and yet so much was left out.
‘Cause the The Vow has a second season coming
@sarah Ducant Did you not learn how to use paragraphs at school?
@sarah Ducant Which version did I watch? Well, I listed each version that I either saw in documentary film form, and read, literary form. Only one major point...she had no “slave” victims, who were branded, because that was the point at which they, and she, got out. Allison had created quite a pyramid of “slaves”, however.
You should know, too, that it only takes investment to be producer, co-producer, so your implying that talent has something to do with this, has no bearing. I haven’t heard her blame everyone else either. It’s the courts (laws) that determine the behavior, and thus ,the motivating factor. Also known as “intent”, in the court of of law. Perhaps, someday, a lawyer will find you advance the case he is working for. He /she might be able to use your bitter resentment to their advantage! Whooop for you! Allison pleaded guilty, so...
Both docs were very good. Seduced gave a more in depth look of what was really going on, on the inside because Marc and Sarah were out so they didn't really know. India was still in. I also hope she's still friends with Bonnie and them, they all seem like good people. Look it could be anyone honestly.
Smart beautiful and intelligent. Why do I get the sense that the difference between her and Allison is the toss of a coin. Also if she were a man she would be in jail :/
she would still be in the cult if keith was never busted, remember she was in it to the bitter end. funny how she acts all innocent and victimized now, and is making mucho bux from her VERY OWN documentary.
It was the toss of the usb drives
@@dorothybrown-williams4059 so true.
She wouldn’t be in jail if she was a man. The only reason Keith went to jail is because the public started pressuring the authorities, upon initial reports they just said it was all consensual and wouldn’t investigate. This is a story about a man abusing and trafficking dozens of women and you manage to use it to criticise one of the victims. Nice. She was also blackmailed. I think those closest to him should have got longer in jail but the fact is the women most closely involved are in prison.
@@dorothybrown-williams4059 maybe she just finally realized she wasn’t apart of the organization she was apart of? I mean these people were literally brainwashed. It’s kinda crazy that people act like that’s not a thing that happened. She was a victim and shouldn’t be shamed for telling her side of things.
So far, I think both documentaries are excellent. Her recovery will be absorbed into her life forever, and will transform into incredible depth, compassion, empathy and love. She will fight for those who can’t.
After watching 5 min I am very concerned with India she seems to have rehearsed or wrote what she is saying.. its a form of acting so its not very hard to pick up on it. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it but I just would like to know her intentions. You have to in these cult situations. She is also clearly making good money off of it and getting a lot of attention... I feel as though she feels as though she won. I think everyone here is a good person in the comments
Don't be fooled by India. She was filthy in this whole thing. She actively recruited and dedicated all her energy into propping up her master (rapist) Keith Raniere. She only defected after it was clear she would be playing second fiddle to the heiress, Mack and Clyne. They all wanted Raniere 100% for themselves, which eventually led them to all turning on each other.
@@b14ker14 What guts me is how this monster had visual documented workshops on raping and assaulting children and babies. And these "ADULT VICTIMS" now have press tours, paid speaking engagements and documentaries. I struggle to have empathy for individuals who stood and advocated for that madness after witnessing a man speaking about sexually assaulting children and babies! NO APOLOGIES ABOUT THE WAY I FEEL AS A TRUE SURVIVOR OF CHILDHOOD TRAUMA!
Press tours, paid speaking engagements and documentaries! Ugh...dangerous!
She is not addressing her own character flaws. She is well-connected and will not be charged for the hurt she caused to many women she recruited in DOS who got branded like cows.
You don’t blame the victim.
msprisfigueiredo there is a victim under her though. This whole cult was literally a social pyramid scheme, and she was at the top. To be fair though, she was brainwashed and thought what she was doing was right. However, it was unethical and wrong. It’s a tough situation.
She recruited 2 women who never left LA or got branded. Like did you even watch the documentary?
A mother’s love is unconditional, Catherine fought for her daughter India.
It had to have been so traumatic for her. I'm so glad they had a good outcome and are healing.
Spoken like a true mother...
BS! Her mother got her into the cult!
she has the parenting skills of the Little Mermaid
And Nancy Salzman, 2nd in command at NXIVM, brought her daughter in, who became a slave and master, and will be going to prison. She too, loves her daughter, but...
This is a great interview. Very empathic
I’m glad you survived this. I hope you have a happy future. Much love!
Glad you managed to get out if this, glad to see you are greatfull for your mother, she deserves it.
I wish you a healthy, happy life.
I’m proud of you, India, & I’m sure I’m not the only one. And your mother is the definition of a Loving Mother❤️
Don't be fooled by India. She was filthy in this whole thing. She actively recruited and dedicated all her energy into propping up her master (rapist) Keith Raniere. She only defected after it was clear she would be playing second fiddle to the heiress, Mack and Clyne. They all wanted Raniere 100% for themselves, which eventually led them to all turning on each other.
Thank you for this interview,
I can't express how heartwarming it is to see her happy. Her story is a remarkable one. I throughly enjoyed both "Seduced" and "The Vow" for different reasons.. I watched "The Vow" secondly and was disappointed that she wasn't in it.. but know I understand why. Look forward to reading her book. Both her and her mother seem like lovely people so glad they no only survived but help to expose all this.
It could have been so much worse. and now to see that she is happily living with a loving support group and engaged to be married makes her ending to this nightmare a miracle if there ever was one.
So glad to see Keith Reaniere will be in prison for life.
Don't be fooled by India. She was filthy in this whole thing. She actively recruited and dedicated all her energy into propping up her master (rapist) Keith Raniere. She only defected after it was clear she would be playing second fiddle to the heiress, Mack and Clyne. They all wanted Raniere 100% for themselves, which eventually led them to all turning on each other.
Too bad about Alison mack
She needs to deal with the fact that she was no better than Allison. The whole group of DOS were recruiting women and it’s so sad that she is sitting up there like she wasn’t that person. She was that person and should own that.
Exactly!!
I wonder what Keith was the victim of that caused him to create so many victims. Allison and India are victims but what about all theirs ? With that perspective Keith would also be a victim. Maybe if his childhood?.... either way EVERYONE SHOULD BE ACCOUNTABLE
I wish India all the best and happiness she deserves! You are beautiful! Be strong a live for what is true, right and decent in this sick world.
She seemed so meek and sad when she first joined, after she left I see this spark in her eye, she looks so beautiful and happy.
I doubt it. Imagine if you had to lose slaves, would you still have a spark in your eye?
Thank you India for being brave enough to come out and do this documentary which will help millions of people who may face similar situations and you are educating many and being the force of good you were destined to be. You have a terrific mother in Catherine Oxenberg who as you say never gave up , a mother’s love . Steven Hassan book on combating mind control would thoroughly recommend shows how easy anybody can be indoctrinated through a workshop or invite from a friend. How they purposefully separate from family or a friend you went with etc. The intense workshops not leaving you alone etc and love bombing. Glad he is on seduced and like you got out of a cult ! Wish you and your Mother and family all the very best for the future! Your an INSPIRATION to us all many thanks !
Nothing about this feels genuine...after watching the vow, this feels rehearsed and like a performance to completely disassociate India from any responsibility of the role she played 🤢
she would still be in the cult if keith was never busted, remember she was in it to the bitter end. funny how she acts all innocent and victimized now, and is making mucho bux from her VERY OWN documentary.
I think there are 2 things you are missing. Her age and the fact that that she was indoctrinated for YEARS. Close up, personal and with the use of high control methods. That can really f someone up badly. For years even.
I agree
The Keith guy is so gross, can't believe he got all these women to follow him🤮
From what I hear they did a lot more than "follow".
He just got sentenced to 120 years.
The man is astoundingly unimpressive for a cult leader.
I don’t know, in a part I am happy that she is free. But in another I feel that the way she speaks shows that shes is fake. In fact because of the abuse she should look more emotional and less robotic.
There is something weird
Agreed. I see nor hear any remorse for the crimes she committed. She should feel guilt regardless of her being coerced or not. It screams “I now found my calling in life and want to profit of it all I can!”
There's no right or wrong way to process trauma. Get off your high horse
@@corinneb39 sure. My opinion it’s just a perspective, like yours.
@@noeliasolis2498 you’re implying she’s wrong to act a certain way and “should” act another. My only perspective is leave her be. They are not the same.
She took a long break before interacting with the public, and gets to schedule her appearances in a way that suits her. You have no idea how she feels or how she acts when there isn't a camera on her. Most people act cheerful in public regardless of what's going on underneath. Why do you think so many people are shocked when people like Robin Williams commit suicide?
It's really shitty to try to project your expectations of what trauma looks like onto people. The woman was fucking starved, raped and branded. Attacking her for experiencing or displaying happiness says way more about you than her.
for me, this woman is guilty, it was clear in the documentary that she just wanted to free her bar
Luckily having a well connected family who doesn't want any bad press (especially around sex rings) can be very helpful.
What a beautiful human being. So happy for her to have extricated herself and brought the law down on this evil venture. Cheers to a beautiful life!!
I feel bad for saying this....but she sounds fake/pretentious here 😬 (not that I don't believe her story...just that her mannerism for this particular interview seems like she's an actress promoting her latest project)
Nevertheless, I do find "Seduced" to better than "The Vow".
she really does
she would still be in the cult if keith was never busted, remember she was in it to the bitter end. funny how she acts all innocent and victimized now, and is making mucho bux from her VERY OWN documentary.
Rationalizing your own lack of responsibility
she would still be in the cult if keith was never busted, remember she was in it to the bitter end. funny how she acts all innocent and victimized now, and is making mucho bux from her VERY OWN documentary.
@@dorothybrown-williams4059 Yeah that is called being in a cult and then waking up from it even if it is a forced awakening ! It’s almost as people don’t understand what indoctrinated people are capable of ! Legal Responsibility and Guilt is however determined by many complex factors that we the general public do not have access to or do not understand ! If you are considered to not being able to take a decision of your own from your own free will , cause psychological issues then you are not always considered responsible of you crimes , especially It it involves you being a puppet to master manipulator narcissistic sociopath !
As for personal remorse and accountability, we don’t fucking know either, cause we don’t know her ! We don’t know what she did or didn’t do or might do to make amends ! I just don’t like people calling others fake over a screen, I am not saying she didn’t do anything wrong , she did , but how she chooses to heal and grow and take personal responsibility of it all is not our business, you can support her testimony, her attempt to educate people on cults and how indoctrination work, or not ! But its her own personal business and maybe the Law’s if it finds she needs to be served Justice !
Are you serious? Let me ask you a simple question. Did you buy or were you sold your last car? I know, you think you bought it....but chances are you were sold. Now, just think about dealing with that kind of incessant messaging for YEARS. And then let's talk about responsibility ok? Have some perspective ok?
@@davidhutchinson5233 What in the meth? The meek simpleton that I am fails to recognize the wisdom your immeasurable intellect is trying to communicate to my thick empty mind.
India is no victim and I’ll die on that hill… she knew exactly what was going on. It’s not like she was just another back round member she was literally like 2nd in command after Allison I call bullshit. She’s not dumb actually she is very smart. Smart enough to play the victim role in order not to go to prison and now all the sudden she has opened her eyes? Lol no she’s still pull wool over others. I agree with you 100% these people are sheep and that’s what women like india do they love to play sheep in a wolfs clothing
I am listening to Catherine oxenberg’s book, and this poor girl! Both women are so well spoken
Gotta make money off it right?
And in the near future, Allison will probably be making money from all this.
I support you, India. I pray you have a wonderful life.
She seems like shes using this for her moment and its gross.
Dude. Shush.
If she is victim, she is intitled to use if for her benefit as much as she wants!
She’s doing this to bring awareness to cults. She’s always hated the attention on her from NXIVM. She’s just trying to help people.
@@kellyl7688 did she not help the sex trafficking
so spot on, so true
Why is she free and Alisson being tried? They both did horrible things.
Because Allison was one of the main organizers of the DOS system to begin with. There was a tape recording where she discussed helping brainstorm the branding as it was "her idea". There probably would've never been a second tier of slves without Allison.
India, I'm so happy you are safe and out of that group. I remember how worried about ya your mom was, when she was on Megan Kelly 🙏💙 .
You stand up and tall for yourself! So proud of you, secrets keep us sick 🤢
I'll be looking for that book, keep strong!
Ever feel like low level indoctrination and coercion go on in your workplace?
social networks. watch THE SOCIAL DILEMMA. You think thought reform blows you away, look how thought reform has caused political upheavals around the world
Oh it does. I've seen it in sales organizations my whole life. Nothing insane like this outfit NXVIXM or however the f you spell the f'in thing. But yes....It goes on.
Capitalist indoctrination is extremely potent and pervasive.
Interviewer is a great listener. 👍
Something is very off with her...
EXACTLY...Contrived and scripted.
Rebellious white, privileged and entitled young adult who sought an identity and power seperate from her privileged birth legacy.
There's something dangerous about "ADULT VICTIMS" who get undeserved redemption. They're taking advantages of press tours, paid speaking engagements and documentaries. She has to forgive Allison because Allison is HER!
What guts me is how this monster had visual documented workshops on raping and assaulting children and babies. These "ADULT VICTIMS" now have press tours, paid speaking engagements, and documentaries. I struggle to have empathy for individuals who stood and advocated for that madness after witnessing a man speaking about sexually assaulting children and babies! NO APOLOGIES ABOUT THE WAY I FEEL AS A TRUE SURVIVOR OF CHILDHOOD TRAUMA!
Sorry, but I don’t even know who India Oxenberg is...
India was never a celebrity. Her mother Catherine was an actress on the 80s soap opera Dynasty
@@spatchmo6938 they are european royalty, but her baby daddy a drug dealer. why the self-deprecating?
she wasn't speaking out because she was deep in the cult. stop absolving people like india of their free will--she caused as much suffering as keith no doubt. she would still be part of this cult today if keith was never busted--she was forced out, and now she's acting innocent and doing her very own documentary grift. we see you india
Its like the nuremburg trials but the participants had the ability to leave
They're all a bunch of narcissistic sociopaths. Raniere was just a leader, a mentor, the mastermind, the most perverted mind, deceived them to a certain point, but there is the part of them that resonates with him, that is like him. If one recruited others, submitted them to blackmail of some sort, to me they are culpable all the same, even if they were deceived as well at some point.
@@cesaugusto108 You'll be amazed at how the human mind is easily manipulated. Obviously not everyone would have fallen for this, it took years of brainwashing to pick the most suggestible people out of thousands of members of Nexium
Thank you ma'am.
Well said
I'm so happy for India. She's a beautiful humble virtuous person ❤️ She really is a hero
Don't be fooled by India. She was filthy in this whole thing. She actively recruited and dedicated all her energy into propping up her master (rapist) Keith Raniere. She only defected after it was clear she would be playing second fiddle to the heiress, Mack and Clyne. They all wanted Raniere 100% for themselves, which eventually led them to all turning on each other.
We need podcast interviews
I get major narcissistic and victim vibes from both her and her mom
My only question is how she gets to be seen as a victim (which she is) but somehow Allison is not? Were they not both manipulated by the same man? Were they not both involved in recruitment? She could have just as easily faced prison time like Ally. It would be good of her to acknowledge that.
The difference Allison knew the breadth of what was happening and India did not. That changes the intent.
Allison was way more complicit and has never disavowed Kieth that I know of. Everyone is not “equally culpable” there’s a reason Alison Mack was prosecuted and India was not. You say this like it was just purely random and it wasn’t.
I'm not sure I buy into her excuses, she's just as guilty as Alison Mack. Perhaps she's worse, as at least Alison has/is receiving punishment for her actions.
Throughout this entire conversation this woman expressed no remorse for the role she played in the torture, manipulation, and abuse of other women.
This was simply a platform for her to promote a documentary and book, from which she will make great profit off the back of the suffering of her fellow "sisters"
Shut up, be humble, apologise, and donate the proceeds from your moneymaking exercises to organisations that seek to support women whom are being exploited/trafficked/abused.
I think alison mack was more of the leader that's why shes getting more heat. Even the branding was with both keith's and Mack's initials. Also all members were recruiting people.
I agree. India should apologize and give back.
Except Allison has shown zero remorse.
What I really don't understand is why this guy is not asking the right questions. I would ask her: Did you know the woman who testified against Raniere? Did you know she was being held captive? How many people did you bring to this organization? Do you feel bad for them? Were they branded? Are you doing something to get them out? But of course she must make money with her documentary and her book and suddenly everything is about her. About how brave she is, let's put more make-up on her and comb her hair once again...
@@Anitalamasbonita221 um... okay so this is about her experience. So yes it's about her at this moment. Same way when Mark Vicente & Sarah edmondson spoke about their experiences.
Yes, Hurt People .... Hurt People! So thankful you got out! Lord Bless you and continue to heal. 🙏
you’re not allowed to hurt people. you can defend every criminal and sick person by that logic
@@cerenb7909 true , No one is allowed to hurt people. If someone does hurt somebody they should be punished. But when people are hurt they a lot of the time pass the hurt on to others. It’s not right and I hope that when someone is hurt that they would seek out help to be able to walk through the pain and to heal. Blessings to you Caren b
Not buying it. If there were kids involved that's one thing but these were adults who liked what he was selling... until they didn't. They were all complicit and now they're playing off all the notoriety and money involved in this "newest reality" TV.
Bless you and your mom.
I’m so so so happy that she’s starting to feel a little bit better. I cant imagine being only 19 and slowly being tricked.
I went to one of these self help things and honestly, i think what saved me was that i had been in therapy for SO LONG. I knew myself, even though i was young. But man, there were so many people who got brainwashed SO QUICK. It was such psychological manipulation. And they purposely dont let you sleep and eat (two things i rarely did, another weird advantage). It was scary to see, and it was the very early stages.
I dont mean at all I’m above it. I literally mean that i didnt have any epiphanies so i didnt feel like the program changed my life, but SO MANY did and were totally chanting and crying by day 3... and they hone in on those people. I wont get into it bc its the same thing as this cult (up to a point- the self help beginning steps were about the same but obviously it didnt go to this extreme or you’d have heard of it.. but it was WEIRD they called and emailed me for YEARS after i left)
Anyway I’m so glad India is doing better and healing and i hope she’ll keep healing. She’s an intelligent and of course beautiful girl and i hope she’ll have a great life.
Something like this happened to me at age 17 (victim) BY a pretty blue eyed blonde
and this makes me want to cry :,( Kept it to myself for years and finally told
one person in my family and it got spread. Been alone ever since. Blessings Everyone ~.~
Hey. I’m so sorry this has happened to you ❤
India! Thank you for being brave and stepping up in order to help others to better understand the truth about these types of organizations. Anyone stuggling with these types of organizations or relatioships please go to: Seduceddocumentary.com Here you will find support and resources. 🙏
I am so impressed with India. Such an articulate, sweet & sensitive young woman. I can’t wait to see what she achieves in her life. I want to send all my best to her, her incredible mother and the rest of their family😍
Court junkie did an amazing podcast on this, if anyone’s interested. Not associated with them; I just listened to it last night and was astounded.
I understand she was a victim but she was involved so deeply at that point it becomes a choice cause people did leave even tho they experienced repercussions. She should be held accountable for something at least but I’m sure it’s white privilege and her family that helped her dodge any type of jail time.
It was her class privilege and female privilege that combined to exclude her from prosecution. I mean, the cult leaders were all white and will be serving jail time, princess.
Ignorant. It was the evidence and testimony she provided.
@@amygross3686" ...to save herself from prosecution" - There. I finished you incomplete sentence for you.
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
@@williamhutton2126 what’s your point?
Proceeds from the book should go to helping women. India will have a huge inheritance coming her way. I wonder what they offered her to do a tell all?
I think you watch the vow first and then watch seduced and you get a complete view of it
I would not judge her. She was very young and was clearly a victim of a group of predators. Thank God for her amazing mother. But I do believe if she is a victim, so is Allison Mack to some degree and some of the others who were coerced. With that being said, being a victim does not make it ok or excusable to victimize others or to commit crimes. Certain members were able to leave when they saw the exploitation and the branding and the criminal behavior. Good luck to her and her documentary and book will be beneficial to understand how these predatory groups work.
@sarah Ducant I agree with that. Some of these kids born into this kind of wealth to famous parents have no direction and it's an obstacle for them to be successful. They would be better off doing as you mentioned and just helping humanity.
It is revealing that she doesn't seem contrite or devastated that she ruined countless lives that she is talking about how her life was ruined. If Allison Mack committed crimes, India committed crimes. And here is India, taking this 15 min turn to try and maximize money as much as possible. It is actually shameful IMO
@@danielkim672 After watching the documentary I do feel she was manipulated coerced and brainwashed. These predators are very good at what they do. But I understand your point. Clearly many others were also, but were able to walk away when they saw the criminal behavior
Hear about the new restaurant called Karma?
There’s no menu: You get what you deserve.
Yep. That flows both ways. Intelligent people don't get sucked into cults.
@lana lake To trigger idiots into responding...
It worked
@Kelly Hoyer Shame? For what? The truth?
@Kelly Hoyer _" For perpetuating this falsehood that it is the fault of the victim for getting trapped in a cult."_ - Citation required.
Just provide a single, legitimate study that shows it is not the fault of the cult members for joining a cult. No need for a (pretend) myriad.
@Kelly Hoyer no shame on u, these people are idiots, I have yet to see an example of someone bright getting sucked into a cult. But dont forget they arent just idiots they are also criminals they too are culpable.
and SHAME ON U for condoning it
It would be fascinating to see how he’s manipulating the inmates who believe his BS in prison. Such a waste of some of her young life.
my dad was a charming sociopath. he even boasted about being "charmed". when he was in jail, he was given special privileges to roam freely, have unlimited access to the kitchen to make himself snacks, cable tv, go outside & talk to the construction workers who would give him ketchup packets, which were used as money/bartering for drugs. apparently ketchup (to make the food more palatable) was more valuable than drugs there. so he had his drugs, snacks, cable, made new friends, & was allowed moderate freedom. all because of his charm. i've wondered if keith would end up forming a prison cult. most likely he will. which should make him almost as happy as he was before.
I think it’s easy to be judgemental when you haven’t been a young person exposed to significant mind control and manipulation for many years. It’s also worth remembering how cognitively impaired one becomes in a state of starvation as was the case for some DOS members. I think India is very courageous.
@Boycott The Media Boycott The Media what’s a semetizer??
No I have not watched it,
That footage is very hard to watch. ???
She wears a V necklace on the series in the present day and that’s weird
The severity of this story has now gone south when it’s sent to entertainment tonight
Im happy for her that she’s out of it. But would it be a sick plot twist if India is still corrupted and just doing all this for show and lowkey still worships keith. 😬 tell me when that show comes out
If they gave Nicki Clyne a reality show…
that's exactly the vibe i'm getting from her.
Don’t ever stop!! Ignore the haters and show that a good woman can never be held down. 👏🏼😘
Well said
I know this is 3 years ago but I just finished watching seduced and the vow. Its amazing to me how a person this aware can still be seduced by that monster. Even after I watch those documentary I still find it hard to believe she was that "weak". But I guess because of what happened to her she seem so together and stronger from this video. I praised her mom for not giving up on her and willing to fight.
Im sorry, but she needs to serve time for recruiting women into DOS.
YES
Easy to judge - but when you do, just remember that judging is the basis for all brainwashing; black and white thinking has an appeal, but it’s no different than the fix offered by cult leaders. It’s too easy. Try empathy for the people who got out, admitted their mistakes publicly, and did everything possible to get the people they recruited, out. So many people just walk away, in denial.
@@quintuplebanned4267 what are you talking about? You dont even make sense.
Agreed.
She won't because of her background/family/wealth
@@quintuplebanned4267 you sound like Keith.
I love India. So brave!
HER MOTHER NEVER GAVE UP ON HER BABY
If I was her I wouldn't be talking about how I was turned off and instead expose everything that happened while I was brain controlled for so long
That series was so Boring. The vow was way more in depth
India you are impressive. God bless
India is so eloquent and strong and beautiful and amazing. Thank God she woke up from this nightmare. And I applaud her for speaking out. A great interview!!!!
I am glad she is safe now...
that is hilarious- im glad she isnt conning more people out of their life savings
@@stickapot3623 that is a stupid comment...she was lost and brain washed by that horrible man and actress...I would not wish that life on anyone
@@hippyelise1 lmao you are such a sheep. She is just as guilty as the rest of them. why she isnt going to prison is called rich Malibu Priviledge. She recruited and was in it for years. if Ali Mac is facing prison time so should see.
why dont u volunteer and show empathy for someone that deserves it.
I really liked the seduced! It made me respect India's and her mother's story a lot
yeah . . . she collected blackmail from her slaves . . . she didn't get charged b/c she's pretty
Really? The ‘most horrific’ cult leader? Not Manson? Or Koresh? Or Jim Jones?
word.
How are people going to question her authenticity and validity as a ‘victim’ and not Sarah Edmonson’s 😒
Well for 1. Sarah never denied her roll or responsibility. 2. She didn't recruit other women to get their vaginas branded.
I think the answer to her baffled disbelief about his ongoing support rests within her own experience. Being blinded enough to dance outside his prison requires nothing more and nothing less than exactly the same thing it took for an almost perfect 10 to let herself be branded by, and then bedded by, the toady creep from high school band camp.
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.” - Carl Sagan,
The Vow is an actual documentary series that gives a much more nuanced and honest take on the victim and perpetrator roles of everyone involved and tries to genuinely understand how decent people got sucked into NXIVM wheras Seduced is just India's personal saving face project so she can make some money and try to reclaim her image, yet she comes across super fake and weird.
I agree but I will also add one big reason why she is doing this media blitz and her documentary and that is because she was also complicit in committing crimes like the other women and her mom had said it many times because it was mentioned as a point of fact that she too was also recruiting girls for Keith. I do understand how someone can get caught up and I wouldn't consider any of them naive or stupid but what India is doing is acting like she didn't know right from wrong its obvious she isn't going to be charged like the other women so she should continue to get the help and stop exploiting herself pubically with this over done spin control
I see it differently. I feel like the vow doesn't pose enough questions, especially of of Sarah Edmonson and Mark Vicente. When the CBC podcast Uncover was digging into this story, the host received correspondence regarding Sarah Edmonson's recruiting tactics. He does a good job of taking her to task for this (e.g. does she feel entitled to keep the money she made by recruiting vulnerable people). These people are victims, but they also have a hell of a lot to answer for and The Vow doesn't ask the hard questions it should.
Keith Reniere is the worst villain, but there are shades of grey in these other stories.
@@aw04tn58 I agree wholeheartedly that the vow also went way too easy on everyone and I was honestly kinda dissapointed in it until I saw Seduced and how much WORSE it was i guess it just seems a lot better in comparasion
I think all the people indoctrinated became victims including Alison Mack seen all the CBC uncover read all the books and seen half of the vow and 3/4 of seduced and read Steven Hassan s book on combating mind control, was interested how people became brainwashed in the first place and the methods used in order to avoid that myself and help people I know in a cult situation. Of course those brainwashed abused others which is why it’s so sad ! Just hope the victims get the help they need to get on with their lives for the good of others.
Completely disagree with you although respect the reply you made , India was coerced through the workshop set up by Nmivm , coming out of these cults they were brainwashed or suggestions , if you be been seductively coerced through such a programme you become a different person that is line with cult or whatever you would call it. Read Steven hassans book combating mind control highly recommend ! Of course you have your opinion as do I .
I'd like to see one of her slaves interviewed....
Who is the guy shown in 1:10 ?
that is Keith Raniere
You see those hairy stubby legs and think, "Jeeeeesh - no wonder all these women followed this guy!"
I’m sorry you guys but every woman who can leave and speak out about these nightmare experiences are heroes. Granted her mother is definitely hero status but India has taken a nightmare and turned it into information for other moms and other India’s. Maybe a girl in Scientology or Jehovah’s Witness or whatever can look around and say.... I can leave....I should leave....I’m out. Trust me we need these stories from these ladies. I left Mormonism. Trust me every book from every woman who has been used or abused....I couldn’t have done it without them. Bravo ladies!! 👏🏼🥰
Ever encountered a master manipulator? If you had to think for 1 ms you didn’t. I just hope someone is educated through her efforts and the victims can heal. I saw on one documentary that India used to think she could talk to animals when she was a child..I don’t know why but I hope she uses her beautiful soul to reach out to animals too. Even if she is getting money, I can’t imagine the bravery all of this took. She was younger than a lot of the counterparts I see in these documentaries, God bless her
Wow she really came out.
Um, why isn't India doing jail time also?
"Broken people don't heal in prison."
The sentence is 99 years, 364 days and 59 minutes, just because the world might end after that
Jordan B Peterson says that self improvement starts at home! Install good habits in your immediate environment. Improve your environment, then work on your immediate family. Work out from there. Trying to mess with large scale systems is very dangerous. Start small. Start local. Don’t join any organisations that promise a path to ultimate happiness. Because ultimate happiness is an illusion
Who is her father?
Her life is enriched by Executive success programme
India you are extremely eloquent. I’m so proud of Catherine and you.
You can tell she has done some major work in therapy, she is so fiercely strong and independent.
And you are vapid and gullible.
😂🤣🤣
I saw no victims in The Vow series. I only saw greedy people fooled by image of fame, money and self-importance. I have no feelings for this people, they got what they deserved.
AMEN
Pretty, rich and ''smart''. Where is all the money that they helped take from former cult members???
If Keith Raniere is watching this in jail you can imagine what he would be doing
11:05 Isn't it a conundrum that the notion of when you love, you may do things the other person doesn't like and doesn't feel like love, is one of the NXIVM teachings?