I actually have a Ph.D. in plant science and I approve of your quick overview of seeds. Just one extra thing, most GM plants are F1 hybrids that ensure you won't get the same plant if you saved seed each year. Also, I've been breeding/crossing my own tomatoes from heirloom varieties for years. If you want to give some a try, I can send some your way!
Ok, since you've got that Ph.D I have a question. Isn't selective breeding genetic modification since you're specifically choosing which expressed traits get passed on to the next generation? I remember reading online that selective breeding is a form of genetic modification, but the internet is dubious at times so I'd rather get a definitive answer from someone in the field.
That's awesome! I'm a cellular molecular microbial biologist, I just graduated and I am considering making my own hybrids too. Have you ever patented a hybrid? I'm semi intrested in create commercial varieties or better varieties for people who grow their own.
I really appreciate you pointing out that none of these things are "bad" our need to assign moral values to things like foods and seeds causes so many issues! Great video, great info, as always!
@@xianseah4847 The wild has no plants like what we farm. And even if there were wild stands of corn, soy or alfalfa they could only benefit from GMO DNA. If they got the resistance gene for glyphosate, it would not matter. Who randomly sprays weed killer in the wild? Nobody. Natural selection has never stopped working outside of farms.
It's starting to get a little creepy that every time I have a gardening question, that same week you'll upload a video answering my question. Am I living in the Twilight Zone, or are you just really good at long distance mind reading? Either way, I freaking love it and I appreciate everything you do !:)
To be fair, and slightly less creepy, in the northern hemisphere we're *all* thinking about or even starting seeds at the moment, so it's hardly surprising that Kevin is talking about it 😉
Love your explanation of organic vs conventional seeds. Most seeds are perfectly suitable for organic gardening. Organic certification is a cash grab more than anything. There are so many great small scale farmers using completely organic practices that just don't bother with the certification bit because it's too expensive and lengthy of a process.
don't know if they have this everywhere, but you can also contact your county extension office for information about things to grow in your area. I know they are incredibly helpful in my area of Georgia, and nobody ever thinks to take advantage of the services they can provide like soil tests.
Perfect timing. I'm working on getting seeds together for the year and would like the option of saving seeds. I've done some research on this stuff, but was still a bit unsure. You've explained everything clearly. Appreciate it.
Thanks for this video! As an ecologist I knew the definition of GMO and organic seeds (and you explained them well!) but I didn't know what the other terms meant. I am starting my second year of gardening soon and just purchased a bunch of heirloom seeds. Hopefully I'll grow more vegetables this year!
Kevin, thanks for taking your time to explain this , this question comes up weekly if not daily in different gardening groups, now I have a quick reference for this question on seeds.
I've saved seeds from a hybrid cherry tomato. The plants that grew from those seeds produced tomatos that were bigger and oblong shaped instead of round like a cherry tomato. I'd figured this was due to cross polination from other tomatos in the garden, but your explanation about unstable hybrids makes sense too.
I think the easiest way to explain what hybrid and heirlooms are is basically what a cross between two pure bred dogs would looks like and then having that mut cross with an other one. If you cross say, a golden retriever with a poodle, you'll get a Golden doodle (hybrid). Keep crossing a golden with a poodle, you'll always get a golden doodle. Now, if you cross two golden doodles together, who knows what you will get! But, cross two poodles together, you'll get poodles! (heirlooms).
Love all this seed talk...got my seeds, got my rack, got my trays, got my lights...just waiting for the right time to start my seeds...I don't wanna jump the gun and plant too early...exciting. Awesome video, lots of information Kevin, Thanks bud. Cheers, Chad from up in Ontario, Canada.
Open-pollinated is the thing to look for if you want to save your seeds. All Heirloom seeds are open-pollinated but not all open-pollinated seeds are heirloom.
@@BuddyCalyxed I don't know if you are still wandering about this but generally land races are a type of plant (race) that more naturally developed in a specific region (land).
I love all your explanations of things. I personally prefer non organic for reasons that need a bit more time and nuance than I can give to a RUclips comment. Also I don’t mind experimenting with growing the offspring of an F1 hybrid. It’s like a fun little mystery! Thanks for all the info!
Non-GMO has become the biggest cash grab. I knew about the difference between direct genetic engineering verse hybridization, and I think the latter have gotten a bad rap because people are confused, or some hybrids lack seeds, so and and so fourth. But next to nothing we're eating is not a hybrid and has little resemblance to it's ancestor. Nice video.
Let_Us Lunch I also notice many wheat products boasting this marketing, but most don't understand that doesn't rule out the obligatory glyphosate used in the harvesting process. Lots of smoke and mirrors out there.
I think Kevin got the crux of seed purchasing is about relationships with smaller local companies. I have a few smaller local companies that grow the seeds they sell. That means those seeds have been tested in my peculiar micro climate. Not only can they give me good advice on how to grow them, but I'm more likely to have success. I don't think organic certification is at all necessary. It's really about getting to know your local companies. (this might be coming from a place of privilege since not everyone has local seed companies, but if you have the chance it is very worth while.)
A good way to get seeds is to just trade them with other people, that way you are also supporting your community. Money doesn't even have to be involved. That's how I plan to get most of my seeds in the future. Harvest what I can and trade them with friends and family.
The folks in the Hot Peppers group I belong enjoy hybridizing peppers plants. But they are only satisfied with a F1. They will keep working with a hybrid until they can get a stable hybrid and these seeds are traded amongst the members. The most notable of these people is Kang Starr who has developed some fantastic crosses.
You're absolutely correct. Non-GMO labels are just to get you to pay more, fear mongering against it comes from people who don't understand anything about the science of it. GMO crops are literally saving lives across the world as they are more resistant and productive in various environments the plants wouldn't normally be able to grow as well. There's no risk to human health. GMOs are still able to be classified as organic as well, organic labels in stores aren't that trustworthy and are another cash grab. Almost no small home gardener will be growing GMO. For heirloom, I'd consider it to be true for any plant that is true to seed, it's been standardized to a degree. Definitely prefer over hybrids for seed saving abilities.
When it comes to organic v. regular seed my viewpoint is simple: if you are going to use synthetic plant food, don't spend the extra money on certified organic. Once you use synthetic stuff on it, it will no longer be organic so why waste the money. Now, if it is to support a small business, go for it! Edit: about heirlooms, if you have a bit of extra space and patience, get some heirlooms that are a zone off or two from yours and try to get fruit from it. I got a tomato heirloom variety that grows awful in zone 11b, but I got ONE tomato plant to fruit and got tons of seeds from that one plant. Now I have 7 tomato plants from that variety growing and fruiting! I also did the same with a heirloom eggplant and now I got 17 plants growing! It took me two years to get that eggplant, but that one eggplant gave me hundreds of seeds and now they are perfect! Thanks for sharing!
I don't know much about gardening, I've grown some things but I've bought a few heirloom types to eat and grow - carrots, ornamental corn, brandywine tomatoes. When you reuse the seed do you just use the eggplant and save the seeds? What variety would you recommend?
@@emc7056 you have to allow the eggplant to ripen. At that point, it is not really edible. Just leave one on the vine - the prettiest one - and allow it to turn fully yellow. Once yellow, you can harvest the seeds. The eggplant will be pretty dry inside (I allow it to "prune" a bit on the vine before collecting the seed) and the seeds come off fairly quickly. I live in the tropics and can dry the seeds outside all year long, but I have heard of using the oven on the lowest setting with the oven door cracked a bit to dry the seed before saving it. The only problem with that method is that you might end up overdoing it and cook your seeds. A dry warm place is the best place to dry them, but don't forget to bring them inside, critters love seeds...
Massive respect for you with this video dude. I see a LOT of people saying that "natural" is inherently better. Or that GMO is as bad as nuclear waste (without providing any evidence). Life is not as simple as good and bad, why should we expect plants we've messed with for thousands of generations to be any different.
I did the organic versus conventional and had mixed results. The organic out performed conventional in the garden but in pots the conventional out performed the organic. Most of our planting is in the garden so organic it is but with yields I had last year I may have to go back to conventional because it was too much haha. Bought a squash plant from aldi's a few years ago and it had seedlings inside when we opened it so we planted it and had great results. We're now onto the 3rd generation of the squash and each year we have an abundance of squash. Needless to say we've mastered the different ways to cook with it.
You didn’t mention the nutrition facts of those hybrids, how the hybrids lack on nutrition. Can you please talk about that. BTW huge fan of your channel
I only know about hybrids and F1 from cannabis. I think it makes more sense how they pollinate because there is a clear male and female. What's the best way to cross pollinate self pollinating plants? And how do you know they're crossed.
I like the idea of an heirloom that I let evolve to work best in my location, and just keep saving the seeds from. That just seems like it would make my life easier. 😄
I had German Queen going nearly 5 feet tall, was soooooo excited to perpetuate that line from 2020 on, but they were a day late and a dollar short ripening and I lost it to a hard freeze. I take the loss of heirlooms so much harder than anything else.
So true about GMO but also need to take into consideration that sometimes the packets we buy can be "contaminated" by GMO and that would affect us if we were saving our own seeds at the end of that growing season. I had gotten beet seeds from baker creek and they contacted me saying their sugar beet seeds tested positive for gmo contamination :/
My background is plant biotechnology and I think you did a nice overview. I enjoy heirlooms myself due to seed saving ease. But people have been hybridizing plants for a lot longer than a hundred years. What the F1 hybrid seeds do is generally give you a more vigorous plant (hybrid vigor) with disease resistance, size, flavor etc. This is because the seed companies will have two strains that are set like an heirloom (inbred lines) that they cross together to make the seeds you buy. But you can't remake those strains by saving the seeds of the plants you grew from the F1 seeds. I garden to be more self sufficient so as tempting as it is to go for those higher yields with F1s, I try to go with varieties I can preserve myself. I did save seed from one of my favorite F1 tomatoes that I have had trouble finding the last few years. And most of the plants were really good, but one produced super hollow tomatoes. Hoping I can contine to select good specimens from that cross. As far as organic, I'm not sure I agree with your logic. A conventional seed might be healthier since it came from a healthier plant. But I doubt it matters a lot one way or the other. Organic is just a bit expensive and unnecessary in my book. Very true about GMO seeds, most of them are simply not available for a home gardener. I would love to grow a Bt zucchini so I could be done with squash borers, alas it doesn't exist. ;)
I bought all heirloom this year because I really want to seed save everything I grow this year with there being a possible shortage. But how do I avoid cross pollination of my plants?
If you don’t have space to properly space them out (I certainly don’t), one trick I saw on another channel is to tie a small, mesh, party favor style bag around a limb with some young flowers on it. Once the flowers are old enough, give the bag a good jiggle until you see that they are pollinated. Then remove the bag and mark the designated fruit/veg as the ones you are saving, and grow those specifically for seed.
@@connorcarrigan5958 thank you! I have a tiny balcony garden, I’ll pick up some bags from the dollar tree 👍🏼 definitely worried about my tomatos, peppers and cucumbers cross pollinating.
Organic simple definition = produced using all nature based production techniques. Heirloom = deliberately developed, genetically stable varieties Heritage = genetically stable varieties that arise as a result of area wide seed sharing and no introduction from the outside. That's my definitions.
---------------------------- AN INCONVENIENT TRUTH -------------------------------- Don’t buy organic food if you want to increase farm yields or seriously address climate change "As we approach the 2020s, many consumers have accepted the marketing/activist narrative that organic farming would be the best option for food safety and to mitigate the most damaging effects of climate change. The inconvenient truth is that organic farming is a terrible option from a climate change perspective. Its dependence on manures and compost involves huge, but rarely recognized, greenhouse gas emissions in the form of very potent methane and nitrous oxide. But perhaps its biggest climate change issue is that organic farms are mostly less productive per unit area than “conventionally” farmed land. With rising food demand driven mostly by rising standards of living in the developing world, there is a need to boost farm production, and that means the very undesirable conversion of forests or grasslands to agriculture in places like Brazil. That leads to major carbon dioxide release from what had been sequestered carbon in the soils, and also the loss of biodiversity and other environmental services provided by those natural lands. In 1990, the USDA (US Department of Agriculture) was charged by Congress with establishing a national organic standard to supersede the fragmented certification systems that had evolved to that time. It was a major struggle because the very science-oriented USDA was at odds with the early organic marketers who had focused entirely on the narrative that what is “natural” is always best. The marketers finally prevailed. When the national organic standards were issued in 2002, they were not based on science but rather on the naturalistic fallacy. So here is the big picture. The only crop category for which organic yields were higher than the 2016 US average was for forage crops for feeding animals. To have produced all of the US agricultural output from 2016 as organic would have required more than 100 million more acres to have been farmed-an area greater than that of the entire state of California, the third largest US state. That amount of new land suitable for farming clearly does not exist in the US, and so that shortfall would induce more conversion of forest and grassland into farming in places like Brazil, leading to major releases of previously sequestered carbon in those soils" This informative article goes on to use eleven charts and graphs from government data to prove in great detail just how inferior organic farming is. geneticliteracyproject.org/2019/10/07/viewpoint-dont-buy-organic-food-if-you-want-to-seriously-address-climate-change/
@@popeyegordon GHG Emissions is only one side of the coin. Total emissions = GHG added - GHG sequestered. Using organic fertilizers is using the carbon that is already in the carbon cycle. So the use of organic fertilizers is net zero. Chemical fertilizer, made from petroleum, is adding carbon to the carbon cycle. Some of that carbon must go to the atmosphere to balance the cycle. So using organic fertilizers adds net zero GHGs. The process of acquiring and applying, however, can use a great deal of fossil fuels. Just like conventional farming. WRT land clearing, That reduces GHG sequestered. The GHG release would only be if it material removed is burned. The land clearing issue is being addressed with food forest type agriculture. But food forests doesn't have to be done with organic fertilizers. So that isn't a point in favor of organic. In short, the only difference between organic and conventional farming is the type of fertilizer used and the lack of poisons in organic.
Keep in mind if you are raising two varieties of the same plant, proximity can affect them also You can raise two varieties of heirloom tomatoes in the same bed and some of the fruit will be from each of the varieties and some will become that F1 hybrid you were speaking of.
I am updating my statement on the GMO tomato...under no circumstance should anyone buy this tomato. Furthermore, I strongly urge you to contact any seed company offering it and inform them that you will boycott them until they stop offering the GMO seed. This has too much potential to harm our industry. We have already had one company that had to pull all seeds because what was claimed to be heirloom had snapdragon genes all through it. Be informed. Any seed company offering this GMO tomato needs to be 100% boycotted
I wish I had your explanations last year before putting in so much effort to come to you exact explanations of seed definitions. Would've save me hours of research. I agree whole heartedly on herluim definition. It's not the age of the breed but it's stability and ability to constantly reproduce traits generation after generation.
Nice Epic breakdown Kevin👍 I always get irritated when it's see the non GMO label on seeds. Everything is so politically correct anymore it's a joke. Pretty soon we will see gluten free labels on water bottles.🤣
I put a ton of seeds from conventional store bought strawberries in the ground. The plants grew great the next year and had an awesome amount of flowers that turned into fruit. The strawberries looked absolutely mutant! Nothing I've ever seen before and non edible. I'm wondering if the plants were GMO or hybrid. Anyone else try this before?
Just the other day I was researching this topic. You explained it great, in a simple and understandable way. A lot of people don't actually know that the history of modern genetics came from a friar in the 19th century experimenting with peas and observing what happened :D Back to the topic, I've noticed that smaller gardeners usually prefer heirloom and organic seeds, while big companies use hybrids for a bigger and better crop yield (at least in my country, as far as I know all the bigger corn plantations are all hybrids or gmo). Which for me makes sense: I want to save my seeds and be able to grow the same plants over and over again, because I grow things for myself. As for big companies and farms their livelihood depends on the crop yield - so they opt for hybrids or gmo to make sure they can get that required harvest.
Your comments about seeds that were grown under certain conditions eg with fertilizer and pest control are weaker is not the whole story when grown under the same conditions that they were designed for they perform very well but most people cannot provide the almost lab conditions required ! And so yes they are weaker and may not be the best choice in the home garden!
It's like when the hand soap says that it's "vegan friendly" but when you look at the contents on the bottle, none of the ingredients are friendly to anybody.
i have found hybrid seeds tend to be more focused on yeild and heirloom seeds tend to grow more flavorful plants. i think if you're just hobby gardener might as well grow what you can't buy in the store. if you're growing to actually feed yourself yeild becomes much more of an issue.
Excellent video Kevin. I teach 3rd graders a lot about gardening through a plethora of methods. Your video is a great source to support our studies. Thanks!
Very informative. In the hybrid point. I live at the coast and a lot of the vegetables I grow, come from inland. Some cant take a lot of water, so I buy the hybrid seeds that are “modified”, to be more water tolerant. I used to plant potatoes from potato sprouts from my store bought potatoes, and they would just rot in the ground coz they were always wet/damp. Coz the potato season is generally when we have rainy season at the coast. Now I have potatoes that doesn’t mind all the water and yields beautiful potatoes. BUT after the first season, I got what you explained about the plant reverting back to its original “version”. BUT I better understand the reason now. Thanks
From a scientific perspective organic really means hydrocarbon . To a chemist the main compounds in gasoline are “organic” compounds . This makes sense from the fact that things like methane, ethane, ethylene even come from living organisms and these other compounds are just larger versions. Mineral oil for example that you find in baby oil and chapstick .
@@epicgardening you’re welcome ! Lots of overlapping acronyms and terms in physical sciences and gardening that have ahhhh very different meanings lol!
Your videos are getting addicting for me. All of these other garden youtubers do not have the humbleness you present with your MacGyver like ideas for using space. Keep growing my friend.
I am 100% heirloom tomatoes all the way! I did grow 2 plants (of one hybrid) for its sheer production value.... to share with neighbors etc. But the flavor is soooo much better with the heirlooms... and I have never been able to be convinced otherwise...but I often get less fruit...
I appreciate your knowledge of GMO and organic labels. The information on both is accurate and clear. It's not often that someone is able or willing to explain them with accuracy and an unbiased viewpoint. There are some GMO varieties of "roundup ready" sweetcorn sold to home gardeners, but they are very expensive! thanks for the great video.
Omg 😆 I absolutely love the way you approached the organic and non organic topic that was the best explanation I’ve ever heard. As always you hit it out of the park. I hope this helps a lot of people see how that whole system works.
OK...I'll be the jerk... If a 2nd generation GMO seed was grown in natural soil with only compost as fertilizer and only natural pesticides used...would that technically be organic? Also Heirloom: If the definition is any seed prior to hybridization; then both corn and kale could never be heirlooms since the plant we know them as today were the results of thousands of years of hybridization. This year is going to be messed up. Work has me going out of town until May so I'm going to get a horrible late start this year.
Wow I was just talking about this with people at work! But with your break down, I’ll be way better at it next time haha 😅 homestead looks gorgeous in the Cali sun
Great job disseminating the seed definitions. Thanks! My question is why the big seed boxes? I buy seed and use it or share it. Don’t seeds get old, “expire” if you will. Why do people save big boxes of seeds?
How do you deal with pests? My first go at a garden was swarmed with slugs, bugs, and I think possibly vermin. And thanks for making these vids it's really helped me out!
Once you hybridize it, it’s something new/different. If you take those seeds and they breed true over multiple generations, then you could call them “heirloom”. Generally with plants they can’t/won’t revert back to a “true” form after a successful hybridization. You could selective breed them back, potentially.
A hybrid plant can produce seeds that have traits from the hybrid, and ones that are more similar to the original hierlooms used to create it. Recessive and dominant genes and all that. If you plant all the seeds it makes you're bound to grow some that are like hierloom. Steven is also right.
I actually have a Ph.D. in plant science and I approve of your quick overview of seeds. Just one extra thing, most GM plants are F1 hybrids that ensure you won't get the same plant if you saved seed each year. Also, I've been breeding/crossing my own tomatoes from heirloom varieties for years. If you want to give some a try, I can send some your way!
That would be amazing! My PO box is in my description I think
Ok, since you've got that Ph.D I have a question. Isn't selective breeding genetic modification since you're specifically choosing which expressed traits get passed on to the next generation? I remember reading online that selective breeding is a form of genetic modification, but the internet is dubious at times so I'd rather get a definitive answer from someone in the field.
That's awesome! I'm a cellular molecular microbial biologist, I just graduated and I am considering making my own hybrids too. Have you ever patented a hybrid? I'm semi intrested in create commercial varieties or better varieties for people who grow their own.
@@averythegamer4949 Technically it is and there is nothing wrong with that, because you are free to determine what goes in your food!
Interesting how you dropped this bomb of misinformation in January and have not responded to anyone who commented to your statement, hmmmm.
you’re the elite four grass pokémon master obviously :)
LOL
@@epicgardening i love u ❤️
@@That_dawg420 no fucking duh bro
I really appreciate you pointing out that none of these things are "bad" our need to assign moral values to things like foods and seeds causes so many issues! Great video, great info, as always!
Im with you 100% on the GMO and seed packs. Thanks for informing everyone.
So are they good or bad lettuce wise
Anything GMO is unnatural, and should never be released into the wild.
@@cherisecoleman264 They're perfectly fine
@@xianseah4847 The wild has no plants like what we farm. And even if there were wild stands of corn, soy or alfalfa they could only benefit from GMO DNA. If they got the resistance gene for glyphosate, it would not matter. Who randomly sprays weed killer in the wild? Nobody. Natural selection has never stopped working outside of farms.
Unrelated to seeds, but are you thinking of doing beehives at all? I'm getting honeybees for the first time this spring and I'm so excited!
May do a small hive!
It's starting to get a little creepy that every time I have a gardening question, that same week you'll upload a video answering my question. Am I living in the Twilight Zone, or are you just really good at long distance mind reading? Either way, I freaking love it and I appreciate everything you do !:)
The internet can read my mind.
I'm ALWAYS WATCHING MUAHAHA
@@epicgardening I knew it! 😂😂
To be fair, and slightly less creepy, in the northern hemisphere we're *all* thinking about or even starting seeds at the moment, so it's hardly surprising that Kevin is talking about it 😉
@@georgeprout42 haha yes if course! But I seem to ask myself a question and then he uploads the answer 😂 It's actually very useful!
Had a random question and this guy perfectly explained what I wanted to know. Pog
Love your explanation of organic vs conventional seeds. Most seeds are perfectly suitable for organic gardening. Organic certification is a cash grab more than anything. There are so many great small scale farmers using completely organic practices that just don't bother with the certification bit because it's too expensive and lengthy of a process.
I'm glad to hear just the facts about exactly *what* all these terms mean. It gets confusing, and overwhelming, to look at all these terms! Thanks!
don't know if they have this everywhere, but you can also contact your county extension office for information about things to grow in your area. I know they are incredibly helpful in my area of Georgia, and nobody ever thinks to take advantage of the services they can provide like soil tests.
Perfect timing. I'm working on getting seeds together for the year and would like the option of saving seeds. I've done some research on this stuff, but was still a bit unsure. You've explained everything clearly. Appreciate it.
Perfect!
I am totally in love with your new place kev. Can not thank you enough for these videos you put out. Much appreciated.
Thanks for this video! As an ecologist I knew the definition of GMO and organic seeds (and you explained them well!) but I didn't know what the other terms meant. I am starting my second year of gardening soon and just purchased a bunch of heirloom seeds. Hopefully I'll grow more vegetables this year!
Kevin, thanks for taking your time to explain this , this question comes up weekly if not daily in different gardening groups, now I have a quick reference for this question on seeds.
If i was organic certified, i would try to buy organic certified seed. But you really want healthy disease free seed above all.
I've saved seeds from a hybrid cherry tomato. The plants that grew from those seeds produced tomatos that were bigger and oblong shaped instead of round like a cherry tomato. I'd figured this was due to cross polination from other tomatos in the garden, but your explanation about unstable hybrids makes sense too.
Im experiencing this with butternut
I think the easiest way to explain what hybrid and heirlooms are is basically what a cross between two pure bred dogs would looks like and then having that mut cross with an other one. If you cross say, a golden retriever with a poodle, you'll get a Golden doodle (hybrid). Keep crossing a golden with a poodle, you'll always get a golden doodle. Now, if you cross two golden doodles together, who knows what you will get! But, cross two poodles together, you'll get poodles! (heirlooms).
Yep. That's why seed vendors need to isolate. I do.
Love all this seed talk...got my seeds, got my rack, got my trays, got my lights...just waiting for the right time to start my seeds...I don't wanna jump the gun and plant too early...exciting. Awesome video, lots of information Kevin, Thanks bud. Cheers, Chad from up in Ontario, Canada.
I'm in Pittsburgh PA and have already started my hot peppers and tomatoes.
Wishing you a great season
Open-pollinated is the thing to look for if you want to save your seeds. All Heirloom seeds are open-pollinated but not all open-pollinated seeds are heirloom.
So open polination, would they be landrace or not..? If not where do landrace strains come into this categorisation?
@@BuddyCalyxed I don't know if you are still wandering about this but generally land races are a type of plant (race) that more naturally developed in a specific region (land).
I love all your explanations of things. I personally prefer non organic for reasons that need a bit more time and nuance than I can give to a RUclips comment. Also I don’t mind experimenting with growing the offspring of an F1 hybrid. It’s like a fun little mystery! Thanks for all the info!
Non-GMO has become the biggest cash grab. I knew about the difference between direct genetic engineering verse hybridization, and I think the latter have gotten a bad rap because people are confused, or some hybrids lack seeds, so and and so fourth. But next to nothing we're eating is not a hybrid and has little resemblance to it's ancestor. Nice video.
Let_Us Lunch I also notice many wheat products boasting this marketing, but most don't understand that doesn't rule out the obligatory glyphosate used in the harvesting process. Lots of smoke and mirrors out there.
I think Kevin got the crux of seed purchasing is about relationships with smaller local companies. I have a few smaller local companies that grow the seeds they sell. That means those seeds have been tested in my peculiar micro climate. Not only can they give me good advice on how to grow them, but I'm more likely to have success. I don't think organic certification is at all necessary. It's really about getting to know your local companies. (this might be coming from a place of privilege since not everyone has local seed companies, but if you have the chance it is very worth while.)
A good way to get seeds is to just trade them with other people, that way you are also supporting your community. Money doesn't even have to be involved. That's how I plan to get most of my seeds in the future. Harvest what I can and trade them with friends and family.
The folks in the Hot Peppers group I belong enjoy hybridizing peppers plants. But they are only satisfied with a F1. They will keep working with a hybrid until they can get a stable hybrid and these seeds are traded amongst the members. The most notable of these people is Kang Starr who has developed some fantastic crosses.
You're absolutely correct. Non-GMO labels are just to get you to pay more, fear mongering against it comes from people who don't understand anything about the science of it. GMO crops are literally saving lives across the world as they are more resistant and productive in various environments the plants wouldn't normally be able to grow as well. There's no risk to human health. GMOs are still able to be classified as organic as well, organic labels in stores aren't that trustworthy and are another cash grab. Almost no small home gardener will be growing GMO.
For heirloom, I'd consider it to be true for any plant that is true to seed, it's been standardized to a degree. Definitely prefer over hybrids for seed saving abilities.
When it comes to organic v. regular seed my viewpoint is simple: if you are going to use synthetic plant food, don't spend the extra money on certified organic. Once you use synthetic stuff on it, it will no longer be organic so why waste the money. Now, if it is to support a small business, go for it!
Edit: about heirlooms, if you have a bit of extra space and patience, get some heirlooms that are a zone off or two from yours and try to get fruit from it. I got a tomato heirloom variety that grows awful in zone 11b, but I got ONE tomato plant to fruit and got tons of seeds from that one plant. Now I have 7 tomato plants from that variety growing and fruiting! I also did the same with a heirloom eggplant and now I got 17 plants growing! It took me two years to get that eggplant, but that one eggplant gave me hundreds of seeds and now they are perfect!
Thanks for sharing!
if you don't intend on selling it, why does it matter that it's no longer organic?
@@francescofavro8890 it doesn't.
I don't know much about gardening, I've grown some things but I've bought a few heirloom types to eat and grow - carrots, ornamental corn, brandywine tomatoes. When you reuse the seed do you just use the eggplant and save the seeds? What variety would you recommend?
@@emc7056 you have to allow the eggplant to ripen. At that point, it is not really edible.
Just leave one on the vine - the prettiest one - and allow it to turn fully yellow. Once yellow, you can harvest the seeds. The eggplant will be pretty dry inside (I allow it to "prune" a bit on the vine before collecting the seed) and the seeds come off fairly quickly.
I live in the tropics and can dry the seeds outside all year long, but I have heard of using the oven on the lowest setting with the oven door cracked a bit to dry the seed before saving it. The only problem with that method is that you might end up overdoing it and cook your seeds. A dry warm place is the best place to dry them, but don't forget to bring them inside, critters love seeds...
@@PRDreams cool, I have ornamental corn which I think is the same process to dry out, in order to be able to make it into popcorn,
Thank you! I love facts and good information.
Thank you epic gardener!
Massive respect for you with this video dude. I see a LOT of people saying that "natural" is inherently better. Or that GMO is as bad as nuclear waste (without providing any evidence). Life is not as simple as good and bad, why should we expect plants we've messed with for thousands of generations to be any different.
This was very helpful!! Thank you!
I did the organic versus conventional and had mixed results. The organic out performed conventional in the garden but in pots the conventional out performed the organic. Most of our planting is in the garden so organic it is but with yields I had last year I may have to go back to conventional because it was too much haha. Bought a squash plant from aldi's a few years ago and it had seedlings inside when we opened it so we planted it and had great results. We're now onto the 3rd generation of the squash and each year we have an abundance of squash. Needless to say we've mastered the different ways to cook with it.
Could you do a video on how hybrids are eventually stabilized and made true to type? Thank you!
I’ll redirect all the people that are asking me about F to this video 😂
Thank you my Italian God of Gardening
You didn’t mention the nutrition facts of those hybrids, how the hybrids lack on nutrition. Can you please talk about that. BTW huge fan of your channel
I only know about hybrids and F1 from cannabis. I think it makes more sense how they pollinate because there is a clear male and female. What's the best way to cross pollinate self pollinating plants? And how do you know they're crossed.
Will have to do a vid on this!
so...no frog-moose-carrot GMO seeds? JK
Not yet! :P
🤣😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Dang it. I was really hoping for a beaver radish variety of some sort 😂😂😂
I like the idea of an heirloom that I let evolve to work best in my location, and just keep saving the seeds from. That just seems like it would make my life easier. 😄
Thanks for the information. I'm fairly new to gardening and this helps
Thank you for this. Its amazing the confusion over seeds. Finally a nice clear decisive video I can share with the oh so confused. Great job !
I had German Queen going nearly 5 feet tall, was soooooo excited to perpetuate that line from 2020 on, but they were a day late and a dollar short ripening and I lost it to a hard freeze. I take the loss of heirlooms so much harder than anything else.
That’s so sad 😞
So true about GMO but also need to take into consideration that sometimes the packets we buy can be "contaminated" by GMO and that would affect us if we were saving our own seeds at the end of that growing season. I had gotten beet seeds from baker creek and they contacted me saying their sugar beet seeds tested positive for gmo contamination :/
Thank you for sharing.
My background is plant biotechnology and I think you did a nice overview. I enjoy heirlooms myself due to seed saving ease. But people have been hybridizing plants for a lot longer than a hundred years. What the F1 hybrid seeds do is generally give you a more vigorous plant (hybrid vigor) with disease resistance, size, flavor etc. This is because the seed companies will have two strains that are set like an heirloom (inbred lines) that they cross together to make the seeds you buy. But you can't remake those strains by saving the seeds of the plants you grew from the F1 seeds. I garden to be more self sufficient so as tempting as it is to go for those higher yields with F1s, I try to go with varieties I can preserve myself. I did save seed from one of my favorite F1 tomatoes that I have had trouble finding the last few years. And most of the plants were really good, but one produced super hollow tomatoes. Hoping I can contine to select good specimens from that cross. As far as organic, I'm not sure I agree with your logic. A conventional seed might be healthier since it came from a healthier plant. But I doubt it matters a lot one way or the other. Organic is just a bit expensive and unnecessary in my book. Very true about GMO seeds, most of them are simply not available for a home gardener. I would love to grow a Bt zucchini so I could be done with squash borers, alas it doesn't exist. ;)
right of course, when I said that I meant more a commercial hybridization for the home garden market. Appreciate your comment and extra info!
I bought all heirloom this year because I really want to seed save everything I grow this year with there being a possible shortage.
But how do I avoid cross pollination of my plants?
Space them out!
If you don’t have space to properly space them out (I certainly don’t), one trick I saw on another channel is to tie a small, mesh, party favor style bag around a limb with some young flowers on it. Once the flowers are old enough, give the bag a good jiggle until you see that they are pollinated. Then remove the bag and mark the designated fruit/veg as the ones you are saving, and grow those specifically for seed.
@@connorcarrigan5958 thank you! I have a tiny balcony garden, I’ll pick up some bags from the dollar tree 👍🏼 definitely worried about my tomatos, peppers and cucumbers cross pollinating.
If someone can find some GMO seeds being sold in a consumer seed packet I’ll give ya $100 for them !
They aren’t sold in packets lol !
YUP!
And you can't let the companies find out or else you both could face trouble with the law.
@M King Why on Earth would you even contemplate growing a GMO crop?
guy why would u put lab made organism in you.
@@year1organics what if I just want healthy disease free cut flowers...
Organic simple definition = produced using all nature based production techniques.
Heirloom = deliberately developed, genetically stable varieties
Heritage = genetically stable varieties that arise as a result of area wide seed sharing and no introduction from the outside.
That's my definitions.
---------------------------- AN INCONVENIENT TRUTH --------------------------------
Don’t buy organic food if you want to increase farm yields or seriously address climate change
"As we approach the 2020s, many consumers have accepted the marketing/activist narrative that organic farming would be the best option for food safety and to mitigate the most damaging effects of climate change. The inconvenient truth is that organic farming is a terrible option from a climate change perspective. Its dependence on manures and compost involves huge, but rarely recognized, greenhouse gas emissions in the form of very potent methane and nitrous oxide.
But perhaps its biggest climate change issue is that organic farms are mostly less productive per unit area than “conventionally” farmed land. With rising food demand driven mostly by rising standards of living in the developing world, there is a need to boost farm production, and that means the very undesirable conversion of forests or grasslands to agriculture in places like Brazil. That leads to major carbon dioxide release from what had been sequestered carbon in the soils, and also the loss of biodiversity and other environmental services provided by those natural lands.
In 1990, the USDA (US Department of Agriculture) was charged by Congress with establishing a national organic standard to supersede the fragmented certification systems that had evolved to that time. It was a major struggle because the very science-oriented USDA was at odds with the early organic marketers who had focused entirely on the narrative that what is “natural” is always best. The marketers finally prevailed. When the national organic standards were issued in 2002, they were not based on science but rather on the naturalistic fallacy. So here is the big picture. The only crop category for which organic yields were higher than the 2016 US average was for forage crops for feeding animals. To have produced all of the US agricultural output from 2016 as organic would have required more than 100 million more acres to have been farmed-an area greater than that of the entire state of California, the third largest US state. That amount of new land suitable for farming clearly does not exist in the US, and so that shortfall would induce more conversion of forest and grassland into farming in places like Brazil, leading to major releases of previously sequestered carbon in those soils"
This informative article goes on to use eleven charts and graphs from government data to prove in great detail just how inferior organic farming is. geneticliteracyproject.org/2019/10/07/viewpoint-dont-buy-organic-food-if-you-want-to-seriously-address-climate-change/
@@popeyegordon GHG Emissions is only one side of the coin.
Total emissions = GHG added - GHG sequestered.
Using organic fertilizers is using the carbon that is already in the carbon cycle. So the use of organic fertilizers is net zero.
Chemical fertilizer, made from petroleum, is adding carbon to the carbon cycle. Some of that carbon must go to the atmosphere to balance the cycle.
So using organic fertilizers adds net zero GHGs. The process of acquiring and applying, however, can use a great deal of fossil fuels. Just like conventional farming.
WRT land clearing, That reduces GHG sequestered. The GHG release would only be if it material removed is burned.
The land clearing issue is being addressed with food forest type agriculture.
But food forests doesn't have to be done with organic fertilizers. So that isn't a point in favor of organic.
In short, the only difference between organic and conventional farming is the type of fertilizer used and the lack of poisons in organic.
Keep in mind if you are raising two varieties of the same plant, proximity can affect them also You can raise two varieties of heirloom tomatoes in the same bed and some of the fruit will be from each of the varieties and some will become that F1 hybrid you were speaking of.
Yup :D
Great Video, Thank you for info
Awesome!! Great video
I am updating my statement on the GMO tomato...under no circumstance should anyone buy this tomato. Furthermore, I strongly urge you to contact any seed company offering it and inform them that you will boycott them until they stop offering the GMO seed. This has too much potential to harm our industry. We have already had one company that had to pull all seeds because what was claimed to be heirloom had snapdragon genes all through it. Be informed. Any seed company offering this GMO tomato needs to be 100% boycotted
I find the honey bees don't seem interested in the hybrids Ive grown but go nuts for the heirlooms. Not sure why.
“The Force is strong with these ones”
Smart bees
Imagine having a tomato with the genetics from over a thousand years ago
the dream
They found some 800 year old squash seeds in a pot one time, that comes close.
At one time people thought that tomatoes were poisonous!
I feel like Heirlooms are important to preserve, protect and grow but some don’t taste that good, or can be kind of fibrous.
I wish I had your explanations last year before putting in so much effort to come to you exact explanations of seed definitions. Would've save me hours of research. I agree whole heartedly on herluim definition. It's not the age of the breed but it's stability and ability to constantly reproduce traits generation after generation.
Do you have a link to your friends seed company in southern CA? Fantastic video. Thank you for doing them.
Thank you!! I needed this!
Can you also explain open pollinated? I thought I understood but am more confused now. Can you gather seeds from these and what will they come out as?
Thank you fantastic video 💜
Great info!... so helpful, thank you 😌💕
Thanks for the video! Just starting to plan this year's crop now! Stay well!
Where do you get those boxes. I’ve got way too many seeds for the gallon bag lol 😂
Wal Mart has them and Michaels (or probably any craft store, but those are the two least expensive places)
I have purchased mine from Hobby Lobby (40% coupon) and another from Michaels (50% coupon).
YES! This is perfect great video! 👍
Totally learned from this, thank you! Yes I thought non-GMO = something special🌱
Thank you for this.
AMEN! Hearing seed sellers tell me their seeds are "non gmo" makes me yawn so bad 😂
Ok, nice explanations of Heirloom, Hybrid, Organic, and GMO Seeds but what about open pollinated?
I'll do a vid on that down the line
Great info.
Nice Epic breakdown Kevin👍 I always get irritated when it's see the non GMO label on seeds. Everything is so politically correct anymore it's a joke. Pretty soon we will see gluten free labels on water bottles.🤣
Trust me...I had a bottle of water in San Francisco that said gluten free LOL
@@epicgardening you've got me kidding me!!!! Wow were doomed.... thanks for sharing,that was a hoot.
Such good info! You sound a little salty though lol. I’m guessing this isn’t the first time you tried explaining all this to someone 😭
It was REALLY sunny out HAHA
Lol Kevin is so awesome!
I put a ton of seeds from conventional store bought strawberries in the ground. The plants grew great the next year and had an awesome amount of flowers that turned into fruit. The strawberries looked absolutely mutant! Nothing I've ever seen before and non edible. I'm wondering if the plants were GMO or hybrid. Anyone else try this before?
Just the other day I was researching this topic. You explained it great, in a simple and understandable way. A lot of people don't actually know that the history of modern genetics came from a friar in the 19th century experimenting with peas and observing what happened :D
Back to the topic, I've noticed that smaller gardeners usually prefer heirloom and organic seeds, while big companies use hybrids for a bigger and better crop yield (at least in my country, as far as I know all the bigger corn plantations are all hybrids or gmo). Which for me makes sense: I want to save my seeds and be able to grow the same plants over and over again, because I grow things for myself. As for big companies and farms their livelihood depends on the crop yield - so they opt for hybrids or gmo to make sure they can get that required harvest.
Your comments about seeds that were grown under certain conditions eg with fertilizer and pest control are weaker is not the whole story when grown under the same conditions that they were designed for they perform very well but most people cannot provide the almost lab conditions required ! And so yes they are weaker and may not be the best choice in the home garden!
Yup!
Great video....BUT WHAT ABOUT BOTANICAL INTEREST? lol
It's like when the hand soap says that it's "vegan friendly" but when you look at the contents on the bottle, none of the ingredients are friendly to anybody.
i have found hybrid seeds tend to be more focused on yeild and heirloom seeds tend to grow more flavorful plants. i think if you're just hobby gardener might as well grow what you can't buy in the store. if you're growing to actually feed yourself yeild becomes much more of an issue.
Hahaha-that DNA stock animation! *chef's kiss*
Excellent video Kevin. I teach 3rd graders a lot about gardening through a plethora of methods. Your video is a great source to support our studies. Thanks!
Wow, I think this is one of the best seed explanations I have seen on RUclips. Thank you so much.
Very informative. In the hybrid point. I live at the coast and a lot of the vegetables I grow, come from inland. Some cant take a lot of water, so I buy the hybrid seeds that are “modified”, to be more water tolerant. I used to plant potatoes from potato sprouts from my store bought potatoes, and they would just rot in the ground coz they were always wet/damp. Coz the potato season is generally when we have rainy season at the coast. Now I have potatoes that doesn’t mind all the water and yields beautiful potatoes. BUT after the first season, I got what you explained about the plant reverting back to its original “version”. BUT I better understand the reason now. Thanks
Thank you sweetheart💜🐕🦺🌻😇🐞🌲🥑🥥🦚🌱🐝
We messed up since we accepted the label of food
From a scientific perspective organic really means hydrocarbon . To a chemist the main compounds in gasoline are “organic” compounds .
This makes sense from the fact that things like methane, ethane, ethylene even come from living organisms and these other compounds are just larger versions. Mineral oil for example that you find in baby oil and chapstick .
Yes thank you for being more specific on that definition!
@@epicgardening you’re welcome ! Lots of overlapping acronyms and terms in physical sciences and gardening that have ahhhh very different meanings lol!
@6:40 if that was the case we wouldn't have diseases in our plants after centuries of saving seed without spraying
Diseases and pests are also organisms that undergo evolution my friend
@@epicgardening fair enough haha
Your videos are getting addicting for me. All of these other garden youtubers do not have the humbleness you present with your MacGyver like ideas for using space. Keep growing my friend.
I appreciate that!
Thx. I keep telling people to stop being afraid of accidently buying gmo. Haha
You forgot a cultivars calle breed Selection
Sorry Breed Selection also called opv
I am 100% heirloom tomatoes all the way! I did grow 2 plants (of one hybrid) for its sheer production value.... to share with neighbors etc. But the flavor is soooo much better with the heirlooms... and I have never been able to be convinced otherwise...but I often get less fruit...
Hello there
Where did you get your container you store your seeds in?
People have been cross-breeding plants since the beginning of time. This heirloom business it a rabbit hole (i.e. finding the tallest midget...
maybe you could make a video on how to make a hybrird seed?
a paintbrush can be a handy tool to create hybrids
I appreciate your knowledge of GMO and organic labels. The information on both is accurate and clear. It's not often that someone is able or willing to explain them with accuracy and an unbiased viewpoint. There are some GMO varieties of "roundup ready" sweetcorn sold to home gardeners, but they are very expensive! thanks for the great video.
Omg 😆 I absolutely love the way you approached the organic and non organic topic that was the best explanation I’ve ever heard. As always you hit it out of the park. I hope this helps a lot of people see how that whole system works.
OK...I'll be the jerk...
If a 2nd generation GMO seed was grown in natural soil with only compost as fertilizer and only natural pesticides used...would that technically be organic?
Also Heirloom: If the definition is any seed prior to hybridization; then both corn and kale could never be heirlooms since the plant we know them as today were the results of thousands of years of hybridization.
This year is going to be messed up. Work has me going out of town until May so I'm going to get a horrible late start this year.
You bring up good points that easily become a rabbit hole I wanted to avoid in this simple vid!
Wow I was just talking about this with people at work! But with your break down, I’ll be way better at it next time haha 😅 homestead looks gorgeous in the Cali sun
Bravo 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
Epic gardener out here explaining Doodles perfectly 😂
Great job disseminating the seed definitions. Thanks! My question is why the big seed boxes? I buy seed and use it or share it. Don’t seeds get old, “expire” if you will. Why do people save big boxes of seeds?
I love having a lot of varieties at my disposal, and they will last 2-10 years depending on seed so I can use for many years in a row!
Please make a video about growing fruit tree's on containers
Kevin has a TON of great videos. I think he covers this. Just subscribe to his channel and look through them all 😄
I would love to hear your opinions on GMOs though
How do you deal with pests? My first go at a garden was swarmed with slugs, bugs, and I think possibly vermin. And thanks for making these vids it's really helped me out!
So can a hybrid seed eventually revert back to being heirloom "status" if you keep planting and saving the seed over a couple of generations?
Once you hybridize it, it’s something new/different. If you take those seeds and they breed true over multiple generations, then you could call them “heirloom”. Generally with plants they can’t/won’t revert back to a “true” form after a successful hybridization. You could selective breed them back, potentially.
A hybrid plant can produce seeds that have traits from the hybrid, and ones that are more similar to the original hierlooms used to create it. Recessive and dominant genes and all that. If you plant all the seeds it makes you're bound to grow some that are like hierloom.
Steven is also right.
Yes.