Well, for me this was the first Mindclash game that I really liked. It's an efficiency puzzle, and for me it feels like little bit as an open world in the aspect, that you are not limited what you should or can do. I really recommend the expansion if anyone tries the game, it's not a difficult expansion, but adds a lot and changes the dynamic of the gameplay. I don't really get the hate this game gets, for me it is always a fun experience when it hits the table.
A good reminder that it's never about 'good or bad' games, but rather it's whether they are good or bad games for us (and our gaming groups). Keep enjoying it!
@@iansutton7416 Exactly :) there are polarizing games on the market, some more then others, but still. I am not disappointed with the review at all, I was waiting for it for a long time now, but I also kinda knew it won't be a positive one. These kind of reviews are really important for the gaming community, because they starting the conversation and giving different point of views and most importantly keeps people from buying games they don't need in their collection.
I always enjoy the little media cuts you throw in, but the one you put in at 1:47 with Will made me laugh out loud. First time I've done that while watching one of your videos.
freaky, i've actually got Septima set up on my table right now. I like it, the theme is there but a little bit clunky. I'm still learning and in the honeymoon period with Septima. I have zero friends so im a 95% solo only gamer. You are spoilt for choice Luke!
This game has been a hit for me so far. I have never played a Mindclash game before, so I had no preconceptions. I was expecting a lighter game and agreed with you, it is not by any means, but a fun one. Super thematic. On the long side, definitely. I had not realized that the promise 25 min per players, that is absurd😂. The components are way above average, they are a delight to play with, and the art is super good as well. You are right and potions tray tho. A weird design choice. Maybe it is because I have no problems with a little bit of luck in my games, and in this one you can mitigate it if you really focus on it. I also like that you have a lot of paths to victory and tons of choices. Mindclash accomplished their objective with this one, with me at least, because I have just bought Anachrony! 😂 Let’s see how it goes. Thanks for the review!
Interesting review. I loved your potion tray demo. Very amusing. I like the fact you go into detail about the setup and components. So important can easily make or break even if you want to bother getting a game out to play! You briefly mentioned sleeving the cards. Out of interest what do you think are the best sleeves out there at the moment? I'm considering sleeving Ark Nova. Keep up the good work.
There are preferences in sleeves, so generally I'd say try a few and see which you like the feel of. However... some specifics for Ark Nova: - I understand the card stacks are very high unsleeved, so I reckon matte sleeves would be essential to avoid "timberrrrrr!" moments with normal glossy sleeves sliding off the deck. - With so many cards, going for premium 100 micron thick sleeves would likely cause storage issues. I normally go for Sleeve Kings (60 micron) as a moderate step up from 40 micron 'penny sleeves', but IIRC they're all glossy. I don't know of any matte sleeves below 100 micron thickness.
Thanks both for the tips. Luke I'm sure you've done something on this specifically in the past? I was trawling through your greatest hits to see if I could find it but couldn't, was it all a dream?
Plenty of common grounds on the issues. Whilst you did rate the rulebook, I think it's a game with more than its fair share of fiddly rules. That elongates the teach, the amount of in-game questions for the teacher, plus makes the upkeep fiddlier than it could have been (e.g. the bizarrely specific instructions about placing sick citizens). 25 mins per player indeed a nonsense. Balance very much a big concern. At the end of the game, as we were about to add on end game scores, our in-game scores were something like 11, 15, 17, and... 108! About half way through the game, we knew who was going to win, and that's not a case of experience showing, as it was his first game of it as well. You're right that players can easily avoid capture, to the degree that (in the last round) one player sent their witch to stand next to a witch-hunter, just so we could experience that aspect of the game. When players start doing suicidal acts like that, it's clear the game has 'lost the room'. The frustration is heightened, because I think with some critical refinement, the game could have shone brightly. It's like they got carried away adding bits into the game, then ran out of time to refine them back down to the core that shone brightest. Fancy components and trays don't make a game - hard yards refining it does.
Your review is spot on. You've nailed my feelings about this game, especially my disappointment in terms of being worth the ticket price. I do love the artwork and components, but that doesn't justify a game with such weak mechanics. The only thing I would say missing from your critique is just that the gameplay is not tense or compelling in any way, other than someone healing a patient before you can, but even then there are unlimited patients in the hospital. Probably my biggest disappointment in a Kickstarter game ever.
Imho the last excellent MC game was Perseverance. I really love this game and it is the only reason that I gambled on the second KS campaign for the last chapters, even though it will take forever to deliver and the 4th chapter was not developed at all at the time of the campaign... Anyway, having 3 fantastic games from the same company (Anachrony, Trickerion, Perseverance) is a huge thing, so I can't complain about not liking Voidfall and Septima /shrugs! Cheers for the great video!
I totally get rating a game lower because it could have been good and it wasn't. I backed a game last year on Kickstarter after seeing a demo video, and the designer was a very nice person, but did not listen to any of the feedback of the commenters on the video, and the visual design of the game made it confusing and almost unplayable, and I gave it away after three plays. Funny how expectations contribute to ratings, both in games and in real life.
I agree 100% But you can't let a designer or youtuber or similar sway your expectations. It's what I don't support KS previews 99% of the time because it's designed to sway you to forking out your money.
For me this is the first Mindclash dud. Love all the big box games (though I did move on from Cerebria, but still appreciate it), haven't tried Astra yet and probably won't. Septima looks like another winner: the theme is interesting and different, the production quality is spot on for the price point and the rules and game mechanisms seem very straightforward. The only problem I have is... I didn't have any fun playing it. I also tried the solo mode and again great interesting design with not much upkeep but I still didn't find the fun in any part of the game.
It's interesting how the same mechanic (Pulling random meeples/cubes out of the bag) that you're so heavily criticizing here is also in Hegemony but it doesn't seem to bother you that much in that game, which is even longer than this game.
Not as much in Hegemony as there's more mitigation. Multiple players are after the same goal. Influence also acts as a way to offset whare the bag pulls out. The outcomes in this game are also more swingy.
@@axj763 It is, but as we ended up proviing, it doesn't always make a difference plus it uses up a crucial action just to get 1 person in there. The difference with the influence cubes is that you see the outcome of the vote BEFORE you then assess the influence cubes and at that point it becomes a bit of a bluffing game, but with enough cubes, you can swing an unlucky outcome back.
I've never heard of anyone counting set-up time teaching time in their PLAY time. Do you? I think most people will assume that playing solo is going to break playtime expectations. If the designer's multi-player estimates are off, that's a legitimate criticism. So, instead of 25-minutes/player, it's 35? I'm usually the slowest player, and we rarely play the game so often that we don't need to refresh ourselves with the rules, but I assume if I've played a game 25+ times, it's going to be closer to the suggested play time. That's my take, anyway. :)
That's an extra 40 min of game time added in a four player game. And solo is 75-90 minutes, not 35. And setup SHOULD be included or at least mentioned. It's not free bonus time that you get, that's still taking up your game night. And no way this is a ten minute teach and people suddenly know all of it.
@TheBrokenMeeple Hi! Thanks for responding. Set-up, teach, and tear-down are definitely factored in by me, but they seem very subjective. You play a lot of games, teach a lot of games, and could probably shave 10-20% off of my teach time. If I store my mini-heavy game in its original insert compared to someone who bags all the minis compared to someone who buys an easy-access custom insert, there's going to be a drastically different experience. (I do set-up for Cthulhu: Death May Die the night before and put it away when people leave to save at least an HOUR of time. Yikes!) And similarly with take down, some people pre-shuffle the decks, are very analytical about everything being just so, while others practically dump everything in the box to sort next time. How should -- could -- a game company factor all that on? At best, it could be a separate number on the side of the box. This is what I'd like to see instead of a single never-correct number: Table Footprint Set-up Time Put-Away Time Teach Time Play Time Per Player Player Min/Max/Best Complexity
Is Voidfall overrated because it's long and complex? Surely anyone who buys it knows that going in... we've already played it more than much lighter games we own so for us the juice is definitely worth the squeeze!
Mainly that it's the only thing talked about on Facebook any more and any game that requires me to spend an hour on setup and take down plus anywhere from 4-6 hours to play a multiplayer game has to REALLY justify that and Void doesn't manage, except partially in solo mode but that's still a 2-3 hour time sink
Oh yes, was this hyped up and how many fell for this one. BUT I was put off from this game right from the get-go because of ONE thing you didn't talk about at all this time: The Theme. What a terrible and for me horrific theme if you just think about it for a second. And I don't mean the potions, which I despise in any game (even the few games with some minor potion part I would otherwise love). W.-hunt and trials! I would probably rate this even lower. Magie from TT mentioned that the theme was even addressed in the rule book. I need to check this and see what it says. Luke, I hope you can sell this one soon to get your money back. Thanks for the review.
Totally disagree again. But that is not a problem. A lot of times you shed light on things that people would overlook before making a purchase. I think the game suprisigly thematic. Only dowsinde the Hunters. They don't do much if you take care of suspicion. I've only played the game with the Shapeshifter expansion. It helps with the suspicion track. Mabe without it there's more thrill to they movement. I think the game is a good puzzle. But hard to do really well in it. Especially on the side track. 8/10 for our group. After Anachrony our favorite Mindclash game. And we love the components. I've "only" got the retail version, but the components are very good quality. And it is a heavy box.
I maxed out the Ritual track in my first game. If you focus on it with a power or two, it's not too hard to do. But I didn't feel like a powerful witch doing it.
i generally disagree with your opinions quite a bit, i dont think weve ever agreed so much on any game. 1. the ritual track feels like its tacked on to add spells. spells are nice, but not a fun way to handle it imo 2. the hunters are stooopid lol. you explained it very well 3. the 9 actions per round you have to select from is a fine idea, theyre frankly boring to do. every .... single.... one. 4. the trial is a total bust. totally luck dependent in a very rules heavy game. takes a lot of effort to play a game decided by luck of the draw 5. the matching mechanic while interesting at times, wasnt that interesting overall to me. overall i describe Septima as a game with a setting, asthetic, theme, and ocmponents that gets you ready for something really epic that never ever ever happens. ever. at all. "what turn will i do this time? Move, i guess." ya. cuz move is so fun lol. its my least favorite game by Mindclash by far. its not a bad game, im sure there is a decent euro in there. i have no interest in spending the time to find it when i can get a better experience in a lighter game faster and im not even one who cares about play time. its so bad i havent even played the solo mode. im just that disappointed by it.
You can move some of your meeples from the crowd to the trial chamber by playing a card. You could do that twice per round if you use the duplicate card. That gives you more control over the trial phase. I had the chamber completely full in a two player game and never had to use the bag on one trial.
I'm really happy with the game - but I feel it's strictly for 3 players using simultaneous play (which works so well I wonder why it wasn't the official rule).
@@TheBrokenMeeple There's very little in the game where when taking actions you get in each other's way and during those times for something like movement for a key heal space or buying a spell, we just resolve those in turn order.
Normally I agree with most everything you say... that is why I watch after all... But... I don't agree with the luck element argument.. all games are based on luck... any time you pull things out of a bag, anytime you roll a dice, anytime you draw a card there is an element of luck involved... so you don't own any games with cards or dice or bags? With that said... I do understand your point about putting an important element into the game (the witches trail) based on luck and a draw out of the bag... but you mention this in your video but I don't think you go into it enough there is a HUGE way to mitigate the bag... you can add in a bunch of your pieces into the bag... BUT that happens when you put 20 of your pieces into the bag and the 1 other piece gets drawn... or if you need to roll a dice and you have to roll 2 or higher on a d20.. and you roll a 1... that is life man.. that is all about luck.. Every game has it.. every game with dice, or bags, or cards... they all have a percentage of something happening.. you have 20 pieces in the game and someone else has 1... there is a 20 to 1 that you will get your thing pulled.. but guess what... 5% of the time that 1 gets pulled... that is life and there isn't anything you can do about it.. I know you know all of this... your a gamer so I am not telling you anything you don't already know... what I am going over this is because I can't believe you would hold this against this game.. a luck element is in all games that have dice, or cards, or bag draws... even what witches come up is luck based... or which witch you start with... if you start with witch #4 and witch #6 then you have more powerful witches and have an advantage.. but if you start with witch #1 and witch #9 they are the worse and least powerful witches.. Again.. I know you know all of this... but the problem I get from most reviewers is that they HOLD one mechanic against 1 game but ignore it for other reviews or games... I don't see you complaining about luck in other games so holding this mechanic against this game isn't right in my opinion... if you don't want luck in your game then play games without dice, or cards, or bags... or random draws, or most other mechanics... then you would be left with chess or checkers... Keep this in mind going forwards... thanks for your review..
An interesting read, however I have a counter-argument. I'm not saying that any game that features luck is bad. It's not about whether luck features, it's about how much of an impact that element of luck has on your game or ability to win. A game where the luck element can hinder but not destroy is OK. Septima is a game where the bad luck utterly destroys you. And luck has to be heavily controlled when it's in a longer game. I don't care if there's luck in Camel Up, it's a 30 minute racing game with a silly theme, it's meant to be light and fluffy. Septima is a heavy Euro from Mindclash Games, famed for the most super complex Euros on the planet. They aren't fluffy. . . There are only usually about 4-5 trials during the course of the game, and this is a 2.5-3 hour game most of the time with 4 players. Those trials are the direct method in which you can accumulate witches for the purposes of scoring your end game objectives. If you don't get witches, you will lose. Period. Therefore to have your ability to win based on a very swingy luck element that represents 20%-25% of your average gameplay is way too impactful. Pure fluke got me a witch vs someone else in one game despite doing as you say "loading the bag". That scored me an additional 10 points and lost the other player 15. a 25 point swing between us. Scores are not that high in this game compared to other heavy euros so that is a colossal sledgehammer to the other player who was effectively taken out of the game at that very point. We called she would come last and guess what happened? People like to use Ark Nova against me, and I admit, it has a luck element and it's a flaw that comes with drawing cards from a deck. However I don't play Ark Nova by randomly drawing blind and hoping I'll get something good like other novice players do. I make solid use of what's on the display and take advantage of opportunities that arise as the display refreshes (made easier by Marine Worlds I admit). That way I'm not banking solely on luck. Have there been times where a complete luck of the draw has killed my game because it gave the opponent the best card ever? Sure yea, but it's been pretty rare in comparison.
@@TheBrokenMeeple yes... I do agree but again there is an element of luck in all of your decisions you make in the game.. those mechanics are built into every game... when I play dominion I have direct control over which cards go into my deck and how I am building my deck or cards... but what I don't have is the element of knowing which cards are going to come out in my hand at any given time... therefor an element of luck based upon my extensive ability to add the proper cards into my deck and build the perfect deck of cards.. but again that can all be ondone with simple draw of cards.. therefor --luck... All games use it, and all games are built around being able to adjust to it... or at least mitigate the amount the game gives you.. I could certainly counter every point you give me about every game you can bring up... In Ark Nova if your building a small animal zoo but and your opponent starts to take all of the small animal cards there isn't anything you can do about it... nothing.. if your card combos for your build stop coming up then you have NO control over the outcome of the game... you will loose-- period.. At least in Setpima you have some kind of mitigation with the chance that you will win the witch... but again it all based on luck.. you could put 10 guys into the bag and draw 0 of them... is that bad design? NO.. its bad luck... that is all I am saying.. You shouldn't give the game a bad rating based upon the fact that BAD BLIND luck comes into play.. it happens... life happens and all you can do is just adjust and do the best you can... Luke... I don't want to argue with you as this is your channel... I hope you realize this isn't going to be confrontational but rather just a peaceful difference of opinion.. I respect your thoughts.. I am only looking at the big picture where luck can override all of your good decisions... that doesn't make a bad game.. or a bad mechanic... what is makes is an interesting decision... Thanks for the discussion my friend... keep up the awesome work... and I would love to have this discussion anytime....
I like the ritual board, it's where you get your spells and how you progress up the tracks determines ur spells. Omens are a must play with. Shape shift is nice and thematic and helps against the hunters but I hardly use it.
Or perhaps that because Luke plays a lot of solo, when he plays Multiplayer he wants to have interaction to differentiate the experience from solo. Me, I don't play solo, so games getting accused of being multiplayer solo doesn't worry me as much. It's just a low level of interaction in a multiplayer game, but can still be a sociable experience.
That makes sense, same reason I'd never play ark nova with people as it's just multiplayer solitaire and the other people add nothing to the game other than more time
@@Static442Ark Nova at two, when you know the game, is full of tactical snapping, timed breaks and objective race. But I really agree that 3p dilutes the exp. to solitaire mostly. Never play at 4
@@dejavu_d i just dont get the hate Ark Nova is getting. Not every game needs interaction. Perfectly fine with 4. More cards get revealed because people take them from the board.ark Nova is ok with 2....passable. that other people dilute the experience or that they basically dont matter is factually not true. People are diluting games to 2 player games for odd reasons. Also what happened to having a nice get together and having fun. Wingspan can be as fun as Blood Rage. Interaction games don't have the monopoly on fun.it is fun to see other people's strategie in games, talk and so on. What also grinds my gear is complaining about solitair and how long a game is. Honestly it is getting old and reviewers need to stop it. End of my rant. Need to go to sleep....
For me it really hit me after the second play, I love the game. The potion tray I have no issues with it, it's meant to be used pushing on the cap of the potion or the base of it and it easily comes out. After the 5th teach I can explain it in 10 minutes and have made many people buy it. hehehe maybe it's me and how I explained it or the way I set the mood who knows. But you know to each his own and anyway I still appreciate alot your reviews, more like this one, your sincere opinion. That's why when you say a game is good I try to get it or try it. Have a great night Luke. How to use the tray 😋 ruclips.net/user/shortsvaZBRQ5bUYI
Well, for me this was the first Mindclash game that I really liked. It's an efficiency puzzle, and for me it feels like little bit as an open world in the aspect, that you are not limited what you should or can do. I really recommend the expansion if anyone tries the game, it's not a difficult expansion, but adds a lot and changes the dynamic of the gameplay.
I don't really get the hate this game gets, for me it is always a fun experience when it hits the table.
A good reminder that it's never about 'good or bad' games, but rather it's whether they are good or bad games for us (and our gaming groups). Keep enjoying it!
@@iansutton7416 Exactly :) there are polarizing games on the market, some more then others, but still. I am not disappointed with the review at all, I was waiting for it for a long time now, but I also kinda knew it won't be a positive one.
These kind of reviews are really important for the gaming community, because they starting the conversation and giving different point of views and most importantly keeps people from buying games they don't need in their collection.
I always enjoy the little media cuts you throw in, but the one you put in at 1:47 with Will made me laugh out loud. First time I've done that while watching one of your videos.
Only first? I better try harder!
@@TheBrokenMeeple I tend to laugh inside. To laugh out loud was new for me.
freaky, i've actually got Septima set up on my table right now. I like it, the theme is there but a little bit clunky. I'm still learning and in the honeymoon period with Septima. I have zero friends so im a 95% solo only gamer. You are spoilt for choice Luke!
This game has been a hit for me so far. I have never played a Mindclash game before, so I had no preconceptions. I was expecting a lighter game and agreed with you, it is not by any means, but a fun one. Super thematic. On the long side, definitely. I had not realized that the promise 25 min per players, that is absurd😂. The components are way above average, they are a delight to play with, and the art is super good as well. You are right and potions tray tho. A weird design choice. Maybe it is because I have no problems with a little bit of luck in my games, and in this one you can mitigate it if you really focus on it. I also like that you have a lot of paths to victory and tons of choices. Mindclash accomplished their objective with this one, with me at least, because I have just bought Anachrony! 😂 Let’s see how it goes. Thanks for the review!
Interesting review. I loved your potion tray demo. Very amusing. I like the fact you go into detail about the setup and components. So important can easily make or break even if you want to bother getting a game out to play! You briefly mentioned sleeving the cards. Out of interest what do you think are the best sleeves out there at the moment? I'm considering sleeving Ark Nova. Keep up the good work.
There are preferences in sleeves, so generally I'd say try a few and see which you like the feel of.
However... some specifics for Ark Nova:
- I understand the card stacks are very high unsleeved, so I reckon matte sleeves would be essential to avoid "timberrrrrr!" moments with normal glossy sleeves sliding off the deck.
- With so many cards, going for premium 100 micron thick sleeves would likely cause storage issues. I normally go for Sleeve Kings (60 micron) as a moderate step up from 40 micron 'penny sleeves', but IIRC they're all glossy. I don't know of any matte sleeves below 100 micron thickness.
Sleeve Kings I swear by
Thanks both for the tips. Luke I'm sure you've done something on this specifically in the past? I was trawling through your greatest hits to see if I could find it but couldn't, was it all a dream?
@@TA-hj5dp I just mention it from time to time.
Sleeve Kings gets a 👍🏻 from here as well. Imo best bang for your buck/euro/pound.
Plenty of common grounds on the issues.
Whilst you did rate the rulebook, I think it's a game with more than its fair share of fiddly rules. That elongates the teach, the amount of in-game questions for the teacher, plus makes the upkeep fiddlier than it could have been (e.g. the bizarrely specific instructions about placing sick citizens).
25 mins per player indeed a nonsense.
Balance very much a big concern. At the end of the game, as we were about to add on end game scores, our in-game scores were something like 11, 15, 17, and... 108! About half way through the game, we knew who was going to win, and that's not a case of experience showing, as it was his first game of it as well.
You're right that players can easily avoid capture, to the degree that (in the last round) one player sent their witch to stand next to a witch-hunter, just so we could experience that aspect of the game. When players start doing suicidal acts like that, it's clear the game has 'lost the room'.
The frustration is heightened, because I think with some critical refinement, the game could have shone brightly. It's like they got carried away adding bits into the game, then ran out of time to refine them back down to the core that shone brightest. Fancy components and trays don't make a game - hard yards refining it does.
It's like a game where it has promising elements but it doesn't fulfill each of their individual potentials.
great replacement introductory catch up phrase. less agressive and prone to controversy indeed
Would love to know your mindclash games ranking❤❤❤
Anachrony
Trickerion
Cerebria
Voidfall
Perseverance
@@TheBrokenMeepleThen you have a bigger gap and you have Astra hahaha.
@@TheBrokenMeeple thank you so much !!!
Your review is spot on. You've nailed my feelings about this game, especially my disappointment in terms of being worth the ticket price. I do love the artwork and components, but that doesn't justify a game with such weak mechanics. The only thing I would say missing from your critique is just that the gameplay is not tense or compelling in any way, other than someone healing a patient before you can, but even then there are unlimited patients in the hospital. Probably my biggest disappointment in a Kickstarter game ever.
There are unlimited patients, but the ones on the outside i think reward you more.
@@TheBrokenMeeple true, but that isn't enough tension to hold the game together!
took me 10 minutes to decide what card i wanted to play
Too many issues with this game.
Played this at Dice Tower West, and I was also disappointed... too long to be that lucky... and 25 MINUTES??? 😅
Good analysis as usual, but did you have any fun during your plays?
Some but not a lot.
Imho the last excellent MC game was Perseverance. I really love this game and it is the only reason that I gambled on the second KS campaign for the last chapters, even though it will take forever to deliver and the 4th chapter was not developed at all at the time of the campaign...
Anyway, having 3 fantastic games from the same company (Anachrony, Trickerion, Perseverance) is a huge thing, so I can't complain about not liking Voidfall and Septima /shrugs!
Cheers for the great video!
Really didn't gel with Perseverance, both in gameplay, over complexity and the sales model.
Great fun review!
Glad you enjoyed it!
I totally get rating a game lower because it could have been good and it wasn't. I backed a game last year on Kickstarter after seeing a demo video, and the designer was a very nice person, but did not listen to any of the feedback of the commenters on the video, and the visual design of the game made it confusing and almost unplayable, and I gave it away after three plays. Funny how expectations contribute to ratings, both in games and in real life.
I agree 100% But you can't let a designer or youtuber or similar sway your expectations. It's what I don't support KS previews 99% of the time because it's designed to sway you to forking out your money.
Our first play took 4 hours without the teach.
Yeah it's insane, all these people going "it's 90 minutes easy" is just crazy.
For me this is the first Mindclash dud. Love all the big box games (though I did move on from Cerebria, but still appreciate it), haven't tried Astra yet and probably won't. Septima looks like another winner: the theme is interesting and different, the production quality is spot on for the price point and the rules and game mechanisms seem very straightforward. The only problem I have is... I didn't have any fun playing it. I also tried the solo mode and again great interesting design with not much upkeep but I still didn't find the fun in any part of the game.
Hey Luke, have you started with Divinus yet? Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on that one.
No that won't start for a while. The group has to finish pandemic 0 first
It's interesting how the same mechanic (Pulling random meeples/cubes out of the bag) that you're so heavily criticizing here is also in Hegemony but it doesn't seem to bother you that much in that game, which is even longer than this game.
Not as much in Hegemony as there's more mitigation. Multiple players are after the same goal. Influence also acts as a way to offset whare the bag pulls out. The outcomes in this game are also more swingy.
But you can directly place into the trial here? That is mitigation
@@axj763 It is, but as we ended up proviing, it doesn't always make a difference plus it uses up a crucial action just to get 1 person in there. The difference with the influence cubes is that you see the outcome of the vote BEFORE you then assess the influence cubes and at that point it becomes a bit of a bluffing game, but with enough cubes, you can swing an unlucky outcome back.
I've never heard of anyone counting set-up time teaching time in their PLAY time. Do you? I think most people will assume that playing solo is going to break playtime expectations. If the designer's multi-player estimates are off, that's a legitimate criticism. So, instead of 25-minutes/player, it's 35? I'm usually the slowest player, and we rarely play the game so often that we don't need to refresh ourselves with the rules, but I assume if I've played a game 25+ times, it's going to be closer to the suggested play time. That's my take, anyway. :)
That's an extra 40 min of game time added in a four player game. And solo is 75-90 minutes, not 35.
And setup SHOULD be included or at least mentioned. It's not free bonus time that you get, that's still taking up your game night. And no way this is a ten minute teach and people suddenly know all of it.
@TheBrokenMeeple Hi! Thanks for responding. Set-up, teach, and tear-down are definitely factored in by me, but they seem very subjective. You play a lot of games, teach a lot of games, and could probably shave 10-20% off of my teach time. If I store my mini-heavy game in its original insert compared to someone who bags all the minis compared to someone who buys an easy-access custom insert, there's going to be a drastically different experience. (I do set-up for Cthulhu: Death May Die the night before and put it away when people leave to save at least an HOUR of time. Yikes!) And similarly with take down, some people pre-shuffle the decks, are very analytical about everything being just so, while others practically dump everything in the box to sort next time. How should -- could -- a game company factor all that on? At best, it could be a separate number on the side of the box.
This is what I'd like to see instead of a single never-correct number:
Table Footprint
Set-up Time
Put-Away Time
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Is Voidfall overrated because it's long and complex? Surely anyone who buys it knows that going in... we've already played it more than much lighter games we own so for us the juice is definitely worth the squeeze!
Mainly that it's the only thing talked about on Facebook any more and any game that requires me to spend an hour on setup and take down plus anywhere from 4-6 hours to play a multiplayer game has to REALLY justify that and Void doesn't manage, except partially in solo mode but that's still a 2-3 hour time sink
What is the best two player game about witches?
Honestly I'm not aware of any that are 2 player only.
Pagan - fate of roanoke
Oh yes, was this hyped up and how many fell for this one. BUT I was put off from this game right from the get-go because of ONE thing you didn't talk about at all this time: The Theme. What a terrible and for me horrific theme if you just think about it for a second. And I don't mean the potions, which I despise in any game (even the few games with some minor potion part I would otherwise love). W.-hunt and trials! I would probably rate this even lower. Magie from TT mentioned that the theme was even addressed in the rule book. I need to check this and see what it says. Luke, I hope you can sell this one soon to get your money back. Thanks for the review.
Theme never bothered me honestly but family the theme is pretty abstracted in this. Hell, witches are exiled in this, not burned.
Totally disagree again. But that is not a problem. A lot of times you shed light on things that people would overlook before making a purchase.
I think the game suprisigly thematic. Only dowsinde the Hunters. They don't do much if you take care of suspicion. I've only played the game with the Shapeshifter expansion. It helps with the suspicion track. Mabe without it there's more thrill to they movement. I think the game is a good puzzle. But hard to do really well in it. Especially on the side track. 8/10 for our group. After Anachrony our favorite Mindclash game. And we love the components. I've "only" got the retail version, but the components are very good quality. And it is a heavy box.
I maxed out the Ritual track in my first game. If you focus on it with a power or two, it's not too hard to do. But I didn't feel like a powerful witch doing it.
i generally disagree with your opinions quite a bit, i dont think weve ever agreed so much on any game.
1. the ritual track feels like its tacked on to add spells. spells are nice, but not a fun way to handle it imo
2. the hunters are stooopid lol. you explained it very well
3. the 9 actions per round you have to select from is a fine idea, theyre frankly boring to do. every .... single.... one.
4. the trial is a total bust. totally luck dependent in a very rules heavy game. takes a lot of effort to play a game decided by luck of the draw
5. the matching mechanic while interesting at times, wasnt that interesting overall to me.
overall i describe Septima as a game with a setting, asthetic, theme, and ocmponents that gets you ready for something really epic that never ever ever happens. ever. at all. "what turn will i do this time? Move, i guess." ya. cuz move is so fun lol. its my least favorite game by Mindclash by far. its not a bad game, im sure there is a decent euro in there. i have no interest in spending the time to find it when i can get a better experience in a lighter game faster and im not even one who cares about play time.
its so bad i havent even played the solo mode. im just that disappointed by it.
We've finally found our agreement! :P
You can move some of your meeples from the crowd to the trial chamber by playing a card. You could do that twice per round if you use the duplicate card. That gives you more control over the trial phase. I had the chamber completely full in a two player game and never had to use the bag on one trial.
I like what I see, thumbs up and comment. What a shame, this one looked so good.
I'm really happy with the game - but I feel it's strictly for 3 players using simultaneous play (which works so well I wonder why it wasn't the official rule).
How are you incorporating simultaneous play?
@@TheBrokenMeeple There's very little in the game where when taking actions you get in each other's way and during those times for something like movement for a key heal space or buying a spell, we just resolve those in turn order.
Normally I agree with most everything you say... that is why I watch after all... But...
I don't agree with the luck element argument.. all games are based on luck... any time you pull things out of a bag, anytime you roll a dice, anytime you draw a card there is an element of luck involved... so you don't own any games with cards or dice or bags?
With that said... I do understand your point about putting an important element into the game (the witches trail) based on luck and a draw out of the bag... but you mention this in your video but I don't think you go into it enough there is a HUGE way to mitigate the bag... you can add in a bunch of your pieces into the bag... BUT that happens when you put 20 of your pieces into the bag and the 1 other piece gets drawn... or if you need to roll a dice and you have to roll 2 or higher on a d20.. and you roll a 1... that is life man.. that is all about luck..
Every game has it.. every game with dice, or bags, or cards... they all have a percentage of something happening.. you have 20 pieces in the game and someone else has 1... there is a 20 to 1 that you will get your thing pulled.. but guess what... 5% of the time that 1 gets pulled... that is life and there isn't anything you can do about it..
I know you know all of this... your a gamer so I am not telling you anything you don't already know... what I am going over this is because I can't believe you would hold this against this game.. a luck element is in all games that have dice, or cards, or bag draws... even what witches come up is luck based... or which witch you start with... if you start with witch #4 and witch #6 then you have more powerful witches and have an advantage.. but if you start with witch #1 and witch #9 they are the worse and least powerful witches..
Again.. I know you know all of this... but the problem I get from most reviewers is that they HOLD one mechanic against 1 game but ignore it for other reviews or games... I don't see you complaining about luck in other games so holding this mechanic against this game isn't right in my opinion... if you don't want luck in your game then play games without dice, or cards, or bags... or random draws, or most other mechanics... then you would be left with chess or checkers...
Keep this in mind going forwards... thanks for your review..
An interesting read, however I have a counter-argument.
I'm not saying that any game that features luck is bad. It's not about whether luck features, it's about how much of an impact that element of luck has on your game or ability to win. A game where the luck element can hinder but not destroy is OK. Septima is a game where the bad luck utterly destroys you. And luck has to be heavily controlled when it's in a longer game. I don't care if there's luck in Camel Up, it's a 30 minute racing game with a silly theme, it's meant to be light and fluffy. Septima is a heavy Euro from Mindclash Games, famed for the most super complex Euros on the planet. They aren't fluffy. . .
There are only usually about 4-5 trials during the course of the game, and this is a 2.5-3 hour game most of the time with 4 players. Those trials are the direct method in which you can accumulate witches for the purposes of scoring your end game objectives. If you don't get witches, you will lose. Period. Therefore to have your ability to win based on a very swingy luck element that represents 20%-25% of your average gameplay is way too impactful. Pure fluke got me a witch vs someone else in one game despite doing as you say "loading the bag". That scored me an additional 10 points and lost the other player 15. a 25 point swing between us. Scores are not that high in this game compared to other heavy euros so that is a colossal sledgehammer to the other player who was effectively taken out of the game at that very point. We called she would come last and guess what happened?
People like to use Ark Nova against me, and I admit, it has a luck element and it's a flaw that comes with drawing cards from a deck. However I don't play Ark Nova by randomly drawing blind and hoping I'll get something good like other novice players do. I make solid use of what's on the display and take advantage of opportunities that arise as the display refreshes (made easier by Marine Worlds I admit). That way I'm not banking solely on luck. Have there been times where a complete luck of the draw has killed my game because it gave the opponent the best card ever? Sure yea, but it's been pretty rare in comparison.
@@TheBrokenMeeple yes... I do agree but again there is an element of luck in all of your decisions you make in the game.. those mechanics are built into every game... when I play dominion I have direct control over which cards go into my deck and how I am building my deck or cards... but what I don't have is the element of knowing which cards are going to come out in my hand at any given time... therefor an element of luck based upon my extensive ability to add the proper cards into my deck and build the perfect deck of cards.. but again that can all be ondone with simple draw of cards.. therefor --luck...
All games use it, and all games are built around being able to adjust to it... or at least mitigate the amount the game gives you.. I could certainly counter every point you give me about every game you can bring up... In Ark Nova if your building a small animal zoo but and your opponent starts to take all of the small animal cards there isn't anything you can do about it... nothing.. if your card combos for your build stop coming up then you have NO control over the outcome of the game... you will loose-- period..
At least in Setpima you have some kind of mitigation with the chance that you will win the witch... but again it all based on luck.. you could put 10 guys into the bag and draw 0 of them... is that bad design? NO.. its bad luck... that is all I am saying..
You shouldn't give the game a bad rating based upon the fact that BAD BLIND luck comes into play.. it happens... life happens and all you can do is just adjust and do the best you can...
Luke... I don't want to argue with you as this is your channel... I hope you realize this isn't going to be confrontational but rather just a peaceful difference of opinion.. I respect your thoughts.. I am only looking at the big picture where luck can override all of your good decisions... that doesn't make a bad game.. or a bad mechanic... what is makes is an interesting decision...
Thanks for the discussion my friend... keep up the awesome work... and I would love to have this discussion anytime....
For once I disagree with you. The more I play it the more I love it. Now it's in my top 10.
Burn the witch, BURN IT!
THIS?? I'm shocked! :P
@egd277 with or without shapeshifting and with or without the ritual board?
I like the ritual board, it's where you get your spells and how you progress up the tracks determines ur spells. Omens are a must play with. Shape shift is nice and thematic and helps against the hunters but I hardly use it.
What about this game pushes it so high for you? I'm really surprised at your comment.
So where do you stand with Cerebria? :)
Third best, but like all Mindclash games they are a pain to get to the table, they suffer badly for that.
Huge letdown. 6/10 at best.
Awful game and one that I wasted almost 4 hours of a convention on.
Ewww painful 😢
Well, that will probably not leave my Shelf of Shame soon after hearing this. 😀
So you like games that are not like face down playing by yourself but then say that solo is the best way to play the game? Makes no sense what so ever
Or perhaps that because Luke plays a lot of solo, when he plays Multiplayer he wants to have interaction to differentiate the experience from solo.
Me, I don't play solo, so games getting accused of being multiplayer solo doesn't worry me as much. It's just a low level of interaction in a multiplayer game, but can still be a sociable experience.
What Ian said, which makes perfect sense whatsoever 😏
That makes sense, same reason I'd never play ark nova with people as it's just multiplayer solitaire and the other people add nothing to the game other than more time
@@Static442Ark Nova at two, when you know the game, is full of tactical snapping, timed breaks and objective race. But I really agree that 3p dilutes the exp. to solitaire mostly. Never play at 4
@@dejavu_d i just dont get the hate Ark Nova is getting. Not every game needs interaction. Perfectly fine with 4. More cards get revealed because people take them from the board.ark Nova is ok with 2....passable. that other people dilute the experience or that they basically dont matter is factually not true. People are diluting games to 2 player games for odd reasons. Also what happened to having a nice get together and having fun. Wingspan can be as fun as Blood Rage. Interaction games don't have the monopoly on fun.it is fun to see other people's strategie in games, talk and so on. What also grinds my gear is complaining about solitair and how long a game is. Honestly it is getting old and reviewers need to stop it. End of my rant. Need to go to sleep....
Worst game i played last year
Certainly worst I've played this year..............actually I don't know, i played Cities Skylines Board Game this weekend. . . .
@@TheBrokenMeeple I'll add that to my list of games to skip
You didn’t play ‘the hunt’ or ‘Amalfi renaissance’.
@@shatnershairpiece I played AR last weekend actually haha. It wasn't bad! Themeless. But not bad
Massive hard pass on this!
For me it really hit me after the second play, I love the game. The potion tray I have no issues with it, it's meant to be used pushing on the cap of the potion or the base of it and it easily comes out. After the 5th teach I can explain it in 10 minutes and have made many people buy it. hehehe maybe it's me and how I explained it or the way I set the mood who knows. But you know to each his own and anyway I still appreciate alot your reviews, more like this one, your sincere opinion. That's why when you say a game is good I try to get it or try it. Have a great night Luke.
How to use the tray 😋
ruclips.net/user/shortsvaZBRQ5bUYI
Trust me, they don't come out like that with my tray.