Kiwi here. Totally agree with your comparison, so much talent! SA are now the benchmark and are just so good. With time to rebuild, ABs will be great again 🖤
The AB's are still great, just having slight phase...the new coaching and a bit of drama there. Hiccup with the argies. But im seriously stressed about playing you guys this weekend. Our reasonably green (pun intended) team vs AB's that clicked against the argies in the second test. I dunno. could go either way and i wont be surprised
AB's will never not be great. We always, always look forward to playing you guys. These NH teams can talk all the shit they want, nothing will come close to boks vs AB's. Good luck to your boys. Go bokke!
Never write off an All Black matchday team. As a Bok supporter, i have to remind of the Quarter final between Ireland vs "underdog" All Blacks... Looking forward
The 2011-2015 All Blacks are probably the best team ever, using every conceivable metric. They contested two world cups during that time, of which they won two. They contested five 3N/RC championships, of which they won three. They lost less than one match per year on average during that time. The Boks in 2007-2009 were a fantastic team and so are the Boks today, but they still have a ways to go in order to get into the GOAT category. However, there are some things to take into consideration: - NH teams on the balance are a lot stronger recently than they were in prior years. We've seen France, Ireland and even Wales ascend to the #1 spot in the test rankings, albeit briefly. Also, teams like Fiji, Japan and Georgia are also a long stronger than before. The field is a lot stronger today than ever. - Just like it can be argued the Boks were lucky to win the 2023 world cup, it can be argued that NZ were very lucky to win the 2011 iteration. Though France were terrible in the pool stages in that tournament, they really were the better team in the final. How much would a different result have impacted their GOAT status? - The 2011-15 All Blacks did not lose two years worth of test rugby due to COVID. What could have - and should have - been a four year period of Bok hegemony, now became a salvaging operation where the coaches had to forego test wins in order to bleed depth in a hurried fashion. So while I as a Bok fan would probably always consider the 2011-15 All Blacks as the go-to for the GOAT conversation, the Boks of today had to contend with some circumstances that the likes of Carter, McCaw and Nonu never had to face.
And the 2011 ABs shouldn't have even be in the final thanks to their referee Bryce Lawrence being given the Oz vs Boks quarter final, where he allowed Pocock to cheat in it seemed every loose scrum or breakdown. The Boks were a fantastic team under John Smit and would probably have beaten the ABs in the semi. Still leaves a really sour taste in the mouth.
@@stevedavidson666 I said this elsewhere, but the notion that the 2011 Boks were some sort of GOAT level team is false. Yes, Bryce Lawrence did us in. Badly. But we would not have beaten the All Blacks in the semis. - We lost to Australia home and away in the 2011 Tri Nations - Though we beat NZ side in South Africa, they absolutely smashed us (40-7) in Wellington - The NZ side we beat in Port Elizabeth in 2011 were without Dan Carter and Richie McCaw - They completely whitewashed us in 2010, just the year before. That is a 32-12 loss in Eden Park, a 31-17 loss in Wellington and a 29-22 loss in the FNB Stadium in Johannesburg. - In that same year, not only were we whitewashed by NZ, we only managed one home win against Australia, with them winning both a home and away fixture against us. While we probably have given then a harder game, there is precious little evidence that we would have beaten them on not just on home soil, but in Eden Park; their holiest of holies.
I’m so glad somebody else said this so I don’t have to. The AB’s were ridiculous but they also had a bit of a diminished competition. So awesome vs weak gave us a 10 year no 1 team which just a freak occurrence that I don’t think we could match considering how much better the NH teams have got and are now a legitimate threat.
@@randomlyfactual1943 How on earth do you know that? With a team composed of Lambie, Pietersen, Fourie, de Villiers, Habana, M. Steyn, du Preez, Steenkamp, Smit, J. du Plessis, Rossouw, Matfield, Brussow, Burger, Spies.??? Talk about an 'expert'!!!!!!
@@stevedavidson666you guys love to bring up Brice Lawrence and you may be right, but we will never know. It would be like an ABs fan complaining about the penalty incorrectly given against Ardie Savea in the last RWC final. That 3pts Pollard got, won you guys the game. I’m sure you don’t agree with that “could have, would have” theory right. Of course because it’s foolish, and in the end doesn’t change anything
Tim yet again another superb analysis. My humble opinion as a south african is that there are/ have been great players from both sides. However, that 2015 AB's was the most feared team with a winning track record it would be difficult to match. I just enjoy the rivalry between the Boks and AB's and can cope being beaten by thembut nobody else.
@@gavinwhindus2932 we need consistancy, that's the achilles heal of the boks, last tie we had covid to blame this time we don't so it's all on the boks to to be more consistant. On the flip side I think Rassie likes ot experiment a lot rather than play it safe, so we might get a few losses here and there before selections and gameplans settle, but let's see.
In my time of watching rugby over the last 30 odd years, I have not seen a better 9 than Fourie Du Preez. Tactical, rugby brain and awareness, close to perfect.
Sorry. Joost hands down. Fourie was good at what he did, which was mainly tactical kicking. Joost had all that and more. Recency bias, if you can call it that, can argue Aaron Smith to be a better 9 than Fourie. Joost van der Westhuisen will forever be the best 9 to play this game And where does George Gregan fit in? Probably another who could rival Fourie for the best ever. Du Pont probably better to
My first memory of test rugby on film was the great try Frik du Preez scored against the Lions in 1968, when McBride was still a "cub," although on his second Lions tour - since then there were very good scrumhalves, Going, de Villiers, Edwards, Wright, Kirk, Farr-Jones, Gregan, Smith and on and on...... I agree on du Preez being the most complete 9 of all. He has won every rugby competition he was ever entered into - RWC, Currie Cup, Super rugby, Lions tour, and he was ALWAYS INSTRUMENTAL in those victories. It is a toss up for second place between Edwards, van Der Westhuizen, and Gregan. Du Pont is good, but overrated - he never plays outside Europe and does not have to face the ferocity of a Lions tour. He is not EVEN the best current scrumhalf!
Both good teams. In the 2015 RWC, our toughest game was actually the Boks when we beat them by a point or two in the semi or quarters. So respect to the 2015 Boks as well.
@@anelfrylinck841 yeah I reckon had we lost that game, the Boks wouldve went on to win that 2015 RWC. All respect to the Wallabies but that Boks All Blacks game was the final for me.
I agree! Destiny had it that these 2 great teams played each other last year in the final...lets do it in 2027 again, shall we? 🎉 Practicing starting this weekend at Ellis Park! Cannot wait! ❤
As an Irish fan I believe the NZ 2015 team and squad was the greatest ever. Guys like McCaw Carter and Nonu actually managed to peak at or near the end of their careers
The 2011-2015 All blacks were incredible but we can't ignore the fact that the others team like Ireland and France weren't as good as they are right now.
Imo that's partly because that NZ team was just so far ahead of the chasing pack. This modern SA team is virtually neck and neck with the rest. Incomparable.
Does occupying the number 1 postion at the top of the World Rugby rankings for ten years straight as in, an uninterrupted decade, count for anything in terms of greatness? I say yes, it does.
@hermanvzyl you've misunderstood his statement. He's agreeing with the OP, and saying that he's from Ireland. Not saying Ireland is the team he's talking about
Also tells you all you need to know about SAs production line when you can name two squads in the last two decades and consider both as one of the greatest🤷 you could replace all the 07 with the 23 players and get the same result 🤷
@@Honest_Opinion_Truly 08 ABs I'm pretty sure were better performing than the 2008 Boks. It was 2009 where the Boks whitewashed the ABs 3 zip, and were in turn white washed in 2010
Love it Tim. Welcome back to the shores of Southern Africa. NZ 2015 team and most NZ teams for me will always be the best. SA is in a golden era and it's great for the age old rivalry.
In the 2015 semi-final the All Blacks only beat South Africa by 2 points. I loved that AB team, don't get it wrong, but SA wasn't as far away as everyone imagines.
That isn't a surprise though - South Africa isn't Namibia lol. They also had a very good team even if the coaching wasn't that great. The thing that separated this ABs team was their ability to win even when they played badly.
One off games don’t prove how great a team was. The 2023 all blacks were bang average and nearly beat an all time great SA team despite a red card in the final .
From a Saffa... The 2011-2015 All Blacks will always be the benchmark!! Although we did run them close in that semi in 2015... but they were just so far ahead of everyone!! Our Boks do have it in them to become a legendary team and like you said, Tim, we need championships. Hopefully Rassie can master winning championships while bringing the young guns through!! Saturday is gonna be a banger!!
I’m so glad you gave Ben Smith his flowers. His high ball skills always made for a safe pair of hands. I feel like the 15 position has turned into a bit of volleyball as opposed to conventional catching under the high ball. Shows how much the game has changed in a decade.
As a saffa, there was a poll some years ago listing 1 player you wish you had (from any opposition), Ben Smith was my pick. Looked like a banker, but man that guy was a baller
Interesting! Fourie over Smith and that is based on Smith's comments. Another thought is that the current Boks face a lot stiffer competition. On any day you can argue that the top 4 (maybe even 5 or 6) can beat each other. The other difference is the decline of Oz as a powerhouse. Also, what about the bench? I know people make statements about Rassie using all 23 but it really was the ABs of that era that pioneered it.
@@derekaarts4997 Arendse might overtake Habana no question, but yes, a few more years is needed to achieve that status.. The 4 tries Habana scored vs Samoa in the '07 WC was the best performance I ever saw from a winger.
Tim,I understand this is a bit of fun.As you said.Wasting a bit time till the big game.I don't enjoy making comparisons like this.The game in 2007 was a totally different and different coaches playing under different rules and game plans. Same arguments can be made to all sports and era's should not be compared. That AB side from 2015 should stand alone as the Best in their era.So many legends there and same from the bok side. I will say this...this is the first time in Bok re admission history where we had consistency in the coaching department and have not had to deal with political and administrative interference and have the potential to become the best run of performance of all time.
I had a chat with a Springbok prop of the '90s and comparing his generation with the modern players, he said: "the modern team with it's training, skills and tactics would easily win the score, but we'd have won the fights!" Welcome back to South Africa, Tim.
can you imagine James Dalton and James Small on the same field, today, there would be many folk wondering wat die fok aan gaan? Who is fighting? Who should be fighting? Why are some still running? why are the rest of them just standing there? Would be a joke not even Ricky Gervis could make sense of.
All these players are just world class. I’m just happy to have been alive to see all of them play 🙏🏽🙏🏽thanks to the rugby Gods for giving us this gift 🎁
Tim this is an incredible analysis like I've never seen before. And however difficult it is al your selections made kind of sense. However the Spirit of the AB's can never fade. So as a fellow SA'can, this will again be as tough as it gets and certainly NOT plain sailing for our bokkies, (especially after the last 79 to 81 minutes). It can go any way!
I agree with most of your decisions, except picking Retallick over Matfield. This is akin to sacrilege or blasphemy! Matfield was POTM in the World Cup Final of 2007. The Boks stole 6 of The England balls in the lineout and had 100% success on their on throw. Matfield did something similar to the Sharks in the 2007 Super 14 Final. He virtually stole opposition balls every game he played, that's he good he was. Similar in a sense to McCaw turning-over balls at tackles like he always did. Matfield won a World Cup, 2 Tri-Nations, a British Lions Series, 3 Super Rugby titles and 3 Currie Cups when it was still a strength versus strength competition. I am not dissing Retallick or any of the other locks, but picking Retallick over Matfield is like picking Burger over McCaw.
I'm Kiwi and I tended to agree with all your selections Tim. The only one I would question is the Kaino-Dutoit option. But I would be happy with either. Great work and enjoy the game!
Jerome Kaino was great, no doubt about it. But PSdT is on another level as far as blind side flankers are concerned. His performances in both the last two World Cup Finals is the stuff of nightmares, if you're the opposition. Additionally, he can play lock. And he's sneaky fast: most people don't realise how quick he is. But Jordie can attest, and so can Richie Mounga.
Solid team. Only things I'd argue would be Siya and Damian to be in there. I think Siya's ability and importance often gets lost when we speak of his leadership. And Damian is one of the most criminally underrated players I can remember. Man always always gets over the gain line
I'm guessing you mean they should be in his combined South African side. I like Kolisi and Damian very much but neither get in front of Nonu and Maccaw
Damien could be the best center of all time. He is very underrated. His performance against the All Blacks in this first game of two shows just how critical he is to the Bok side.
Hi Tim I always look forward to Ur analysis and informative feedbacks. Can't wait to watch the big game on Saturday and welcome to South Africa in advance
Can't wait for you to experience SA again. These two tests are going to be massive. Im nervous already, always have been when we play against the All Blacks. Just holding thumbs that the BOKKE will come on top. Enjoy your stay in SA,and may it be as exciting as your last trip.
You see why I've been saying for years, we need to make a combined Southern hemisphere team and play against the British and Irish Lions, I think that will be EPIC, can you imagine?
Hi Tim, thank you for your insights. Rugby is a team sport and is evaluated by the sum of all its parts, including the bench. Siya is a classic example of a player that produces his best performances in the Springbok jersey. As an academic exercise we can identify the best player in each position but we must not forget that it is the sum of all players (some not the best in the world in their position) that makes a great team. I believe the Springboks, despite their short comings in certain positions are the best team in the world right now Again thanks for all the wonderful content and hope to run into you when you visit SA
Siya vs McCaw is where Siya has to take a back seat. Ever so slightly!!! McCaw was incredible on defense, and managed to find himself in support of many fantastic tries. Siya edges McCaw (in Springbok colors) in ball carrying, as he generally gets over the gain line. I don't remember McCaw being a huge threat with the ball in hand. The Boks play better with Siya on the pitch. Those All Blacks played well no matter who was on the pitch. It's a difficult choice, and I love Siyamthanda, but I have to give the edge to Sir Richie. Sir Richie in his best performance ever, would lose to 2007 World Cup Final Thierry Dusautoir though. He played like a madman in that game.
Hi Tim. I see you now realise why losing Marx was the worst thing that could have have happened to us during the WC. It was on that day, I said " we're done " For me all our boys reached hero status when they were able to win without Malcolm Marx.
No offence to the northern hemisphere but this wouldn't be a contest. The Springboks + All Blacks would be too strong. Adding French players would make it interesting but the Rugby championship would still be too strong
@@morapelimokokomali7907 I think you'd be surprised. Ireland are best team in the world, England and Scotland have some very decent players to fill any holes.
@@henryburton6529No they are not.The Boks are ranked nmr 1 easily and back to back WC champions, Forgetting they were knocked out at QF stage again for the 3rd time straight.Please
Love your videos Tim! It’s important to also remember the since 95 SA had to go through a transformation period to allow for equal opportunity. I personally think this also needs to be taken into consideration when looking at SA’s performances between world cups. It will be interesting to see how the team preforms now that the fruits of transformation come to bare.
Mate, SA has always had a 9 as the primary playmaker going back to Joost, which is why we never really had 'great' fly halves. Also in the 2015 semi, NZ edged SA by 2 points if I'm not mistaken 🤷♀️
Imagine that combined team on the field... WOW that is a field of dreams. Lekka vid again Tim, hope you have an even better trip to SA. Wees virsigtig daar by Ellis Park Jong.
The SA team's pack, specifically the individual names come out ontop, but the NZ team's cohesion, and innovation in attack and game management is undeniable. That NZ period was the most dominant team ever, no one stood a chance. A lot of teams fancy themselves against this current SA team, they do lose about half their games against top opposition.
I also think that at the time of that NZ team there wasn't as much competition, not to take anything away fomr that NZ team, but the Northern Hemisphere has better teams now than then to be far, so it's only natural and I find it more thrilling to have closer games than one team smashing everyone. SA is the world champs no doubt, but yeah it's been proven that ireland can beat us and NZ as well.
@@nathanaelcoetzee3619 Agree it's definitely more entertaining now to have 4 or so top teams who can beat the other on a given day. But if you're vying to be known as the best ever team, you can't be part of a 4 way struggle, even if you come out on top in a knockout comp.
Great Content Tim! All I can ever remember about Ben Smith was him inflicting pain on the Boks, was a brilliant player. I'm nervous for Saturday, AB's always shift gears at Ellis Park. Shout if you short of Biltong, Steak or Brandy🤣
Can't forget that these teams didn't operate in a vacuum, so we have to consider the relative strengths of their opposition during their periods of dominance. Global mobility of talent and coaching personnel and the equaliser of video analysis in the modern game may give the edge to the '23 Springboks?
Great analysis Tim! Before the professional rugby era, both the Springboks and All Blacks also had world class players and teams - some players that compare well to those in the 1995/2007/2015/2023 teams….
ABs were 90+% between 2011 and 2015 with something like 3 losses between 2 cups - that included all the bledisloes (when wallabies were strong) and 3 of 5 Tri/championships) This great Boks team need to do a bit more
You have to consider the bench in the modern era and Rassie has developed a roster with world class back up in every single position. The depth in the present Bok team is amazing
well Etzebeth is fit for Saturday making it 125 caps - and to your topic the current Boks team have drawn unprecedented attention/intrigue with many critics turning to applauders - combo of diverse talent now coming through the ranks leveraging the 40m+ population plus the Rassie factor - I’d say they are on the brink of GOAT and this rugby championship may be the jewel in the crown - travel safe Tim and enjoy every moment in SA - wish I was there for next few weeks 👊
What a fun video. I think you this shows that Rassie has a way of making the team play better than the sum of its parts. I do agree that that back line of 2007 (add burger smith, Matfield, os), as individuals is a cut above. It just reminds us again of the impact that the coach makes, even though his name is nowhere on the team sheet. makes a BIG DIFFERENCE. It seems like when Rassie gets basic ingredients he bakes one helluva cake.
No doubt that all blacks team was the greatest team ever and i say this as a bok supporter. The boks need to be more consistent, we tend to lose games that we really could have won mainly because we dont score enough points and keep the opposition in the game even if we dominate them. We need to evolve our attack more so that we can really start dominating teams not just physically and at set piece but also on the scorebord.
As a South African, I feel it's unfair to compare "best team" by using the best of 2 legendary Bok teams vs. 1 single All Black team. I.e. if you added the 1995-1997 All Black team together with the 2015 team, you'd have Kronfeld above Du Toit and arguably Lomu above Habana - and Marshall would be really close to Du Preez IMO. Anton Oliver and Marx could be a tie as well. I love the analysis and idea, just thought it's worth mentioning.
Kronfeld over PSdT? You're having a laugh, aren't you. Anton Oliver was nowhere near as good as Malcolm Marx. While Jonah Lomu was legendary, he absolutely *sucked* on defense. Habana over him, no competition. Joost van der Westhuizen was able to stop Jonah by himself. The scrum half. Jonah was very good against people who had poor tackling form. Today's modern players would stifle him all day. DuPreez is arguably the best scrumhalf of all time. Justin Marshall isn't even in the competition.
Really appreciated your analysis. As a South African, it was hard to agree with some decisions, but I couldn't argue. But I would like to say I think Juan Smith was a very unrated player. He was exceptionally strong. Juan Smith, McCaw and PSDT together in the same team would be unbeatable
De Allende only playing smart last two years. Before that he was a just a battering ram .no rugby intellect ...kriel was the same . They got better with age ...
This was a fun one to watch, thanks for this vid,”! Please do an Eng 03 NZ 15 SA 23 comparison. I’m from SA and I hate to admit it but the Eng 03 squad was a legendary squad that outclassed all teams of their generation and would probably beat or get close to beating the SA 07/19/23 squads and NZ 11/15 squads
Tim weldone again, but when ever you again see the W Cup final 2015 v Aust. See how Nigel Owens allows Richie McCaw to enter the 1st ruck as blatently from the side as can, without penalizing. We are generalising that Nigel always favoured NZ, and can give many examples. Hope again lovely time for you in SA.
Agree with most of the comments here. AB's 2011-2015 were something else. Could tear any other team apart at will. Current SA side have some way to go in terms of proving themselves (loss against Ireland hurt us in that sense) From a Saffa
Every time you do a video like this I want to see a Combined Southern Hemisphere team to play the home nations and France, and maybe even a Combined Northern Hemisphere team. Just imagine the absolute Hype that would create in the world of rugby! It would be HUGE! I wonder if a SANZAAR team playing a Nothern Hemisphere team at the end of the same year as the Lions tour would work?
Tim Ndlovu, I can't believe I watch all of your videos now. It's insane. Welcome back to SA, the weather is lovely. Cape Town weather...not so much.
Ndlovu 😂😂
Bra Ndlovu, love it 😂
The snow is pretty but it's too damn cold
New name Tim's SA name is Ndlovu!
Ndlovu 😂 nah Tim looks more like a Shark or a Bull... However, nothing wrong with EP Elephants😂 Tim Ndlovu... Nice
Kiwi here. Totally agree with your comparison, so much talent! SA are now the benchmark and are just so good. With time to rebuild, ABs will be great again 🖤
The AB's are still great, just having slight phase...the new coaching and a bit of drama there. Hiccup with the argies. But im seriously stressed about playing you guys this weekend. Our reasonably green (pun intended) team vs AB's that clicked against the argies in the second test. I dunno. could go either way and i wont be surprised
AB's will never not be great. We always, always look forward to playing you guys. These NH teams can talk all the shit they want, nothing will come close to boks vs AB's. Good luck to your boys. Go bokke!
@@happysaffa8871 thank you! Doesn't get bigger for our ABs than playing SA, scared but excited! 🖤
Never write off an All Black matchday team. As a Bok supporter, i have to remind of the Quarter final between Ireland vs "underdog" All Blacks... Looking forward
The 2011-2015 All Blacks are probably the best team ever, using every conceivable metric. They contested two world cups during that time, of which they won two. They contested five 3N/RC championships, of which they won three. They lost less than one match per year on average during that time.
The Boks in 2007-2009 were a fantastic team and so are the Boks today, but they still have a ways to go in order to get into the GOAT category.
However, there are some things to take into consideration:
- NH teams on the balance are a lot stronger recently than they were in prior years. We've seen France, Ireland and even Wales ascend to the #1 spot in the test rankings, albeit briefly. Also, teams like Fiji, Japan and Georgia are also a long stronger than before. The field is a lot stronger today than ever.
- Just like it can be argued the Boks were lucky to win the 2023 world cup, it can be argued that NZ were very lucky to win the 2011 iteration. Though France were terrible in the pool stages in that tournament, they really were the better team in the final. How much would a different result have impacted their GOAT status?
- The 2011-15 All Blacks did not lose two years worth of test rugby due to COVID. What could have - and should have - been a four year period of Bok hegemony, now became a salvaging operation where the coaches had to forego test wins in order to bleed depth in a hurried fashion.
So while I as a Bok fan would probably always consider the 2011-15 All Blacks as the go-to for the GOAT conversation, the Boks of today had to contend with some circumstances that the likes of Carter, McCaw and Nonu never had to face.
And the 2011 ABs shouldn't have even be in the final thanks to their referee Bryce Lawrence being given the Oz vs Boks quarter final, where he allowed Pocock to cheat in it seemed every loose scrum or breakdown. The Boks were a fantastic team under John Smit and would probably have beaten the ABs in the semi. Still leaves a really sour taste in the mouth.
@@stevedavidson666 I said this elsewhere, but the notion that the 2011 Boks were some sort of GOAT level team is false.
Yes, Bryce Lawrence did us in. Badly. But we would not have beaten the All Blacks in the semis.
- We lost to Australia home and away in the 2011 Tri Nations
- Though we beat NZ side in South Africa, they absolutely smashed us (40-7) in Wellington
- The NZ side we beat in Port Elizabeth in 2011 were without Dan Carter and Richie McCaw
- They completely whitewashed us in 2010, just the year before. That is a 32-12 loss in Eden Park, a 31-17 loss in Wellington and a 29-22 loss in the FNB Stadium in Johannesburg.
- In that same year, not only were we whitewashed by NZ, we only managed one home win against Australia, with them winning both a home and away fixture against us.
While we probably have given then a harder game, there is precious little evidence that we would have beaten them on not just on home soil, but in Eden Park; their holiest of holies.
I’m so glad somebody else said this so I don’t have to.
The AB’s were ridiculous but they also had a bit of a diminished competition. So awesome vs weak gave us a 10 year no 1 team which just a freak occurrence that I don’t think we could match considering how much better the NH teams have got and are now a legitimate threat.
@@randomlyfactual1943 How on earth do you know that? With a team composed of Lambie, Pietersen, Fourie, de Villiers, Habana, M. Steyn, du Preez, Steenkamp, Smit, J. du Plessis, Rossouw, Matfield, Brussow, Burger, Spies.??? Talk about an 'expert'!!!!!!
@@stevedavidson666you guys love to bring up Brice Lawrence and you may be right, but we will never know. It would be like an ABs fan complaining about the penalty incorrectly given against Ardie Savea in the last RWC final. That 3pts Pollard got, won you guys the game. I’m sure you don’t agree with that “could have, would have” theory right. Of course because it’s foolish, and in the end doesn’t change anything
Tim yet again another superb analysis. My humble opinion as a south african is that there are/ have been great players from both sides. However, that 2015 AB's was the most feared team with a winning track record it would be difficult to match. I just enjoy the rivalry between the Boks and AB's and can cope being beaten by thembut nobody else.
Great content, Tim. Keep on doing what you do.
Tim.I am amazed by your springbok rugby knowledge everyday.Well done mate
Will never forget Fourie Du Preez's performance against England at RWC 2007 when Springboks beat them 36-0. What a game that was.🙏
Legend Fourie 💪🏉
That performance by FdP still ranks as the best by an individual I have ever witnessed.
Best performance of a scrummie ever!
I’m kiwi and du preez is one of the best 9 I have ever seen amazing player
I still think that that game is one, if not the only game in rugby where one side did not make one mistake. Was amazing to watch.
I am a South African and have to say that the Boks need to win well against the ABs before they can claim greatness!!
Rassie isn't trying to put the biggest score up though, his 9-10 choice for this first test is evidence of that.
Win is a win
@@KODE0101agree but we need to win, not lose, like we did after Nelspruit!!
@@gavinwhindus2932 we need consistancy, that's the achilles heal of the boks, last tie we had covid to blame this time we don't so it's all on the boks to to be more consistant. On the flip side I think Rassie likes ot experiment a lot rather than play it safe, so we might get a few losses here and there before selections and gameplans settle, but let's see.
Is 35-7 at Twickenham in 2023 winning well enough?
In my time of watching rugby over the last 30 odd years, I have not seen a better 9 than Fourie Du Preez. Tactical, rugby brain and awareness, close to perfect.
It's very hard to pick between vd Westhuizen and du Preez.
@@Jan-jx6ne Not really. Fourie du Preez tactically was insane - I'd also second the OP comment that Fourie was close to perfect.
Sorry. Joost hands down. Fourie was good at what he did, which was mainly tactical kicking. Joost had all that and more. Recency bias, if you can call it that, can argue Aaron Smith to be a better 9 than Fourie. Joost van der Westhuisen will forever be the best 9 to play this game
And where does George Gregan fit in? Probably another who could rival Fourie for the best ever. Du Pont probably better to
Agreed Mate - that guy was a computer
My first memory of test rugby on film was the great try Frik du Preez scored against the Lions in 1968, when McBride was still a "cub," although on his second Lions tour - since then there were very good scrumhalves, Going, de Villiers, Edwards, Wright, Kirk, Farr-Jones, Gregan, Smith and on and on......
I agree on du Preez being the most complete 9 of all. He has won every rugby competition he was ever entered into - RWC, Currie Cup, Super rugby, Lions tour, and he was ALWAYS INSTRUMENTAL in those victories. It is a toss up for second place between Edwards, van Der Westhuizen, and Gregan.
Du Pont is good, but overrated - he never plays outside Europe and does not have to face the ferocity of a Lions tour. He is not EVEN the best current scrumhalf!
Both good teams. In the 2015 RWC, our toughest game was actually the Boks when we beat them by a point or two in the semi or quarters. So respect to the 2015 Boks as well.
Yes I remember that so well! I was devestated but still remember Sonny Bill Williams picked up Jessie Kriel from the pitch. It was so heartwarming..❤❤
@@anelfrylinck841 yeah I reckon had we lost that game, the Boks wouldve went on to win that 2015 RWC. All respect to the Wallabies but that Boks All Blacks game was the final for me.
@@samgreer8274Have heard some players from that game say it was the "real" final.
I agree! Destiny had it that these 2 great teams played each other last year in the final...lets do it in 2027 again, shall we? 🎉 Practicing starting this weekend at Ellis Park! Cannot wait! ❤
As an Irish fan I believe the NZ 2015 team and squad was the greatest ever. Guys like McCaw Carter and Nonu actually managed to peak at or near the end of their careers
That side never won lions series
@@FareedLoyiso didn't play in one either
Got Goosebumps thinking about Victor and Eben at lock together
Even Theoretically
Lood is better and this basically comes from Matfield's mouth.
The 2011-2015 All blacks were incredible but we can't ignore the fact that the others team like Ireland and France weren't as good as they are right now.
Imo that's partly because that NZ team was just so far ahead of the chasing pack. This modern SA team is virtually neck and neck with the rest. Incomparable.
Ireland lost to the worst performing All Blacks team of all time. 2015 All Blacks would beat them 20+.
@@granitesoldier7704 Ireland also beat that team twice in a row in their backyard, and twice in Dublin.
@@SMacCuUladh One of the reasons why they were the worst performing All Blacks. There's no way the 2015 team would lose to Ireland.
England and Australia were amazing then so it cancels out France and Ireland being shit
Does occupying the number 1 postion at the top of the World Rugby rankings for ten years straight as in, an uninterrupted decade, count for anything in terms of greatness?
I say yes, it does.
Obviously it does, really amazing achievement, from Ireland.
@@SMacCuUladh lol wut? Do the Irish count in dog years or something? 😛
@hermanvzyl you've misunderstood his statement. He's agreeing with the OP, and saying that he's from Ireland. Not saying Ireland is the team he's talking about
@@ThirdEye_oOo ah of course 😀
To have to compare the 2015 ABs to BOTH the 07 and 23 Springboks kinda already tells you, the 2015 ABs are just something else.
SA 08 is better than AB 08
SA 23 is better than AB 23
AB 15 is better than SA 15
Also tells you all you need to know about SAs production line when you can name two squads in the last two decades and consider both as one of the greatest🤷 you could replace all the 07 with the 23 players and get the same result 🤷
@@Honest_Opinion_Truly you would not score well on maths exams with comparisons like that 😂
Yeah theres no one on the current SA side which compares to McCaw or Carter - the best ever back and the best ever forward to play the game IMO
@@Honest_Opinion_Truly 08 ABs I'm pretty sure were better performing than the 2008 Boks. It was 2009 where the Boks whitewashed the ABs 3 zip, and were in turn white washed in 2010
This is one of my favourite videos of all time. Thanks for the channel, Tim, and enjoy SA. Now you know what to expect.
I agree with everything you decided, except, i would keep matfiled and drop retallic.
Love it Tim. Welcome back to the shores of Southern Africa. NZ 2015 team and most NZ teams for me will always be the best. SA is in a golden era and it's great for the age old rivalry.
Great Tim, good fun to see this style of analysis, 2015 ABs until the boks go grand slam for a year and 90% between cups
In the 2015 semi-final the All Blacks only beat South Africa by 2 points. I loved that AB team, don't get it wrong, but SA wasn't as far away as everyone imagines.
Japan says hi
That isn't a surprise though - South Africa isn't Namibia lol. They also had a very good team even if the coaching wasn't that great. The thing that separated this ABs team was their ability to win even when they played badly.
One off games don’t prove how great a team was.
The 2023 all blacks were bang average and nearly beat an all time great SA team despite a red card in the final .
Rugby is so close in the top 5 teams now days.
@@kennethhammond4028 Agreed.
From a Saffa... The 2011-2015 All Blacks will always be the benchmark!! Although we did run them close in that semi in 2015... but they were just so far ahead of everyone!! Our Boks do have it in them to become a legendary team and like you said, Tim, we need championships. Hopefully Rassie can master winning championships while bringing the young guns through!! Saturday is gonna be a banger!!
Glad you had to make this SA team, I must agree. Great work every time Tim. Thanks.
I’m so glad you gave Ben Smith his flowers. His high ball skills always made for a safe pair of hands. I feel like the 15 position has turned into a bit of volleyball as opposed to conventional catching under the high ball. Shows how much the game has changed in a decade.
agreed Ben Smith was always a name i didnt want to see on the team sheet as a Saffer
Ben Smith = All round class!
As a saffa, there was a poll some years ago listing 1 player you wish you had (from any opposition), Ben Smith was my pick. Looked like a banker, but man that guy was a baller
Interesting! Fourie over Smith and that is based on Smith's comments.
Another thought is that the current Boks face a lot stiffer competition. On any day you can argue that the top 4 (maybe even 5 or 6) can beat each other. The other difference is the decline of Oz as a powerhouse.
Also, what about the bench? I know people make statements about Rassie using all 23 but it really was the ABs of that era that pioneered it.
Brilliant video!!!!!
Amazing comparison. I went with exactly every player you chose. 100% 👌
100% except for Habana, he is a legend, no question. But Arendse is all skill and pace, maybe we need to give him a couple of years.
@@derekaarts4997 Arendse might overtake Habana no question, but yes, a few more years is needed to achieve that status.. The 4 tries Habana scored vs Samoa in the '07 WC was the best performance I ever saw from a winger.
Great chat Tim... as a bok supporter i would not argue against those choices...
Tim,I understand this is a bit of fun.As you said.Wasting a bit time till the big game.I don't enjoy making comparisons like this.The game in 2007 was a totally different and different coaches playing under different rules and game plans.
Same arguments can be made to all sports and era's should not be compared.
That AB side from 2015 should stand alone as the Best in their era.So many legends there and same from the bok side.
I will say this...this is the first time in Bok re admission history where we had consistency in the coaching department and have not had to deal with political and administrative interference and have the potential to become the best run of performance of all time.
Your last point wins. Yes, yes, a hundred times yes.
I had a chat with a Springbok prop of the '90s and comparing his generation with the modern players, he said: "the modern team with it's training, skills and tactics would easily win the score, but we'd have won the fights!"
Welcome back to South Africa, Tim.
can you imagine James Dalton and James Small on the same field, today, there would be many folk wondering wat die fok aan gaan? Who is fighting? Who should be fighting? Why are some still running? why are the rest of them just standing there? Would be a joke not even Ricky Gervis could make sense of.
All these players are just world class. I’m just happy to have been alive to see all of them play 🙏🏽🙏🏽thanks to the rugby Gods for giving us this gift 🎁
Tim this is an incredible analysis like I've never seen before. And however difficult it is al your selections made kind of sense. However the Spirit of the AB's can never fade. So as a fellow SA'can, this will again be as tough as it gets and certainly NOT plain sailing for our bokkies, (especially after the last 79 to 81 minutes). It can go any way!
I agree with most of your decisions, except picking Retallick over Matfield. This is akin to sacrilege or blasphemy! Matfield was POTM in the World Cup Final of 2007. The Boks stole 6 of The England balls in the lineout and had 100% success on their on throw. Matfield did something similar to the Sharks in the 2007 Super 14 Final. He virtually stole opposition balls every game he played, that's he good he was. Similar in a sense to McCaw turning-over balls at tackles like he always did. Matfield won a World Cup, 2 Tri-Nations, a British Lions Series, 3 Super Rugby titles and 3 Currie Cups when it was still a strength versus strength competition. I am not dissing Retallick or any of the other locks, but picking Retallick over Matfield is like picking Burger over McCaw.
I'm Kiwi and I tended to agree with all your selections Tim. The only one I would question is the Kaino-Dutoit option. But I would be happy with either. Great work and enjoy the game!
Bro kaino makes du dout his wife and daughter at the same time
Du toit clears kaino 🇳🇿
Jerome Kaino was great, no doubt about it. But PSdT is on another level as far as blind side flankers are concerned. His performances in both the last two World Cup Finals is the stuff of nightmares, if you're the opposition. Additionally, he can play lock.
And he's sneaky fast: most people don't realise how quick he is. But Jordie can attest, and so can Richie Mounga.
The win percentages say it all, NZ won the Rugby Championship pretty much every year during that era & every single Bledisloe/ Freedom cup
Your rugby knowledge is incredible and you speak so intelligently about rugby!!
You are a legend. SAFAS LOVE YOUR INSIGHT.
Thank Tim !!! love your work always
Tim, I started watching your channel with the world cup. I really appreciate your views and analyses.
one of my favorite videos so far, thankyou tim!
Solid team. Only things I'd argue would be Siya and Damian to be in there. I think Siya's ability and importance often gets lost when we speak of his leadership. And Damian is one of the most criminally underrated players I can remember. Man always always gets over the gain line
I'm guessing you mean they should be in his combined South African side. I like Kolisi and Damian very much but neither get in front of Nonu and Maccaw
@@patrickchilds2987 Oh yeah the South African one I mean. Both all timers but I wouldn't put them over Richie or Nonu
Damien could be the best center of all time. He is very underrated.
His performance against the All Blacks in this first game of two shows just how critical he is to the Bok side.
Hi Tim I always look forward to Ur analysis and informative feedbacks. Can't wait to watch the big game on Saturday and welcome to South Africa in advance
Can't wait for you to experience SA again. These two tests are going to be massive. Im nervous already, always have been when we play against the All Blacks. Just holding thumbs that the BOKKE will come on top. Enjoy your stay in SA,and may it be as exciting as your last trip.
You see why I've been saying for years, we need to make a combined Southern hemisphere team and play against the British and Irish Lions, I think that will be EPIC, can you imagine?
Said kind of the same thing somewhere else😂😂😂 and agreed it would be epic but make it wider team not the Lions but SH vs NH, 😅😅😅
Another insightful Tim vid, Never been a really bad ABs team, been disappointed, but thats sport like cracking a wine.😅
Hi Tim, thank you for your insights. Rugby is a team sport and is evaluated by the sum of all its parts, including the bench. Siya is a classic example of a player that produces his best performances in the Springbok jersey. As an academic exercise we can identify the best player in each position but we must not forget that it is the sum of all players (some not the best in the world in their position) that makes a great team. I believe the Springboks, despite their short comings in certain positions are the best team in the world right now
Again thanks for all the wonderful content and hope to run into you when you visit SA
Siya vs McCaw is where Siya has to take a back seat. Ever so slightly!!!
McCaw was incredible on defense, and managed to find himself in support of many fantastic tries.
Siya edges McCaw (in Springbok colors) in ball carrying, as he generally gets over the gain line. I don't remember McCaw being a huge threat with the ball in hand.
The Boks play better with Siya on the pitch. Those All Blacks played well no matter who was on the pitch.
It's a difficult choice, and I love Siyamthanda, but I have to give the edge to Sir Richie.
Sir Richie in his best performance ever, would lose to 2007 World Cup Final Thierry Dusautoir though. He played like a madman in that game.
Dan Carter rated the 2009 Springboks as the best team he ever played against
Loved this thought experiment.
Bok forwards and AB backline. Makes sense as a general rule! What a team that would be 😅
Hi Tim. I see you now realise why losing Marx was the worst thing that could have have happened to us during the WC. It was on that day, I said
" we're done " For me all our boys reached hero status when they were able to win without Malcolm Marx.
Brilliant presentation.
Great show, and great picks. You really know your rugby 🏉
This just makes me want to see a British and Irish lions vs combined rugby championship team 3 test series 😭😭
Agree😭😭
No offence to the northern hemisphere but this wouldn't be a contest. The Springboks + All Blacks would be too strong. Adding French players would make it interesting but the Rugby championship would still be too strong
@@morapelimokokomali7907 I think you'd be surprised. Ireland are best team in the world, England and Scotland have some very decent players to fill any holes.
Would absolutely love to see a 3 test series between the lions and a southern hem team.
@@henryburton6529No they are not.The Boks are ranked nmr 1 easily and back to back WC champions,
Forgetting they were knocked out at QF stage again for the 3rd time straight.Please
Most of us will have our favorites, but I think you are spot on. Interesting exercise.
As a bok fan.abs 2015 goat.boks have a lot to prove over the next e years
Agree with all your picks on both combined team Tim. Spot on. McCaw and du Toit forms the best flanker partnership of all time imo.
Love your videos Tim!
It’s important to also remember the since 95 SA had to go through a transformation period to allow for equal opportunity. I personally think this also needs to be taken into consideration when looking at SA’s performances between world cups. It will be interesting to see how the team preforms now that the fruits of transformation come to bare.
Mate, SA has always had a 9 as the primary playmaker going back to Joost, which is why we never really had 'great' fly halves. Also in the 2015 semi, NZ edged SA by 2 points if I'm not mistaken 🤷♀️
Imagine that combined team on the field... WOW that is a field of dreams. Lekka vid again Tim, hope you have an even better trip to SA. Wees virsigtig daar by Ellis Park Jong.
I mean the fact that you had to choose from two Bok teams just shows the 2015 All Blacks is the greatest.
Great video, solid analysis as always, I would not disagree. Safe travels
How can you compare these teams... They are/were exquisite in their time. the memories of great games.
The SA team's pack, specifically the individual names come out ontop, but the NZ team's cohesion, and innovation in attack and game management is undeniable. That NZ period was the most dominant team ever, no one stood a chance. A lot of teams fancy themselves against this current SA team, they do lose about half their games against top opposition.
I also think that at the time of that NZ team there wasn't as much competition, not to take anything away fomr that NZ team, but the Northern Hemisphere has better teams now than then to be far, so it's only natural and I find it more thrilling to have closer games than one team smashing everyone. SA is the world champs no doubt, but yeah it's been proven that ireland can beat us and NZ as well.
@@nathanaelcoetzee3619 Agree it's definitely more entertaining now to have 4 or so top teams who can beat the other on a given day. But if you're vying to be known as the best ever team, you can't be part of a 4 way struggle, even if you come out on top in a knockout comp.
I enjoyed watching Uli Schmidt play
Uli Bully, man was a demon and a doctor to boot.
Tim thank you for your positive attitude. For the baby in the basement you brilliant..
Bro love your comparisons. Kiwi in Western Australia ❤
Great Content Tim! All I can ever remember about Ben Smith was him inflicting pain on the Boks, was a brilliant player. I'm nervous for Saturday, AB's always shift gears at Ellis Park. Shout if you short of Biltong, Steak or Brandy🤣
Also. I am so pleased that you will be returning to rugby Mecca aka South Africa. I hope you are well looked after.
Can't forget that these teams didn't operate in a vacuum, so we have to consider the relative strengths of their opposition during their periods of dominance. Global mobility of talent and coaching personnel and the equaliser of video analysis in the modern game may give the edge to the '23 Springboks?
Great analysis Tim! Before the professional rugby era, both the Springboks and All Blacks also had world class players and teams - some players that compare well to those in the 1995/2007/2015/2023 teams….
Thanks for the great videos Tim.
Can you analyse the teams on stats also?
Meters/carriers; win %, scrum &line out %. Comebacks etc.
Great analysis, not much to argue against that
Enjoyed it, well done 😊
ABs were 90+% between 2011 and 2015 with something like 3 losses between 2 cups - that included all the bledisloes (when wallabies were strong) and 3 of 5 Tri/championships)
This great Boks team need to do a bit more
And right now they've 4 of the 8 competitions they've been in.
It still beggars belief that Os du Randt won the 95 WC and then returned 12 years later to win another. What an exceptional achievement.
Great video Tim
I saw a lot of Os Du Rant in his prime, but would put Woodcock ahead of him as he was Os's equal in the scrum, but superior mobility and fitness.
Os could handle the ball like a back. He just never did due to the Springbok gameplan. Also defensively Os all day.
@@coatknight And I reckon Beast was better than either of them in in his prime.
@monunyabidness5949 Beast was very good and very mobile but listening to those who played with and against Os, he seems to be something special.
NEVER!!!!!!@@monunyabidness5949
It's illegal to be this early.
😂
You have to consider the bench in the modern era and Rassie has developed a roster with world class back up in every single position. The depth in the present Bok team is amazing
well Etzebeth is fit for Saturday making it 125 caps - and to your topic the current Boks team have drawn unprecedented attention/intrigue with many critics turning to applauders - combo of diverse talent now coming through the ranks leveraging the 40m+ population plus the Rassie factor - I’d say they are on the brink of GOAT and this rugby championship may be the jewel in the crown - travel safe Tim and enjoy every moment in SA - wish I was there for next few weeks 👊
Goes to show how incredible that NZ '15 team was that it competes with two teams of SA!
What a fun video. I think you this shows that Rassie has a way of making the team play better than the sum of its parts. I do agree that that back line of 2007 (add burger smith, Matfield, os), as individuals is a cut above.
It just reminds us again of the impact that the coach makes, even though his name is nowhere on the team sheet. makes a BIG DIFFERENCE.
It seems like when Rassie gets basic ingredients he bakes one helluva cake.
Egg Master, you forgot to select the coach for that combined team. Dr Rassie is expecting your call.
No doubt that all blacks team was the greatest team ever and i say this as a bok supporter. The boks need to be more consistent, we tend to lose games that we really could have won mainly because we dont score enough points and keep the opposition in the game even if we dominate them. We need to evolve our attack more so that we can really start dominating teams not just physically and at set piece but also on the scorebord.
As a South African, I feel it's unfair to compare "best team" by using the best of 2 legendary Bok teams vs. 1 single All Black team. I.e. if you added the 1995-1997 All Black team together with the 2015 team, you'd have Kronfeld above Du Toit and arguably Lomu above Habana - and Marshall would be really close to Du Preez IMO. Anton Oliver and Marx could be a tie as well.
I love the analysis and idea, just thought it's worth mentioning.
Marshall was good but even Smith is considered better than him.
Kronfeld over PSdT? You're having a laugh, aren't you.
Anton Oliver was nowhere near as good as Malcolm Marx.
While Jonah Lomu was legendary, he absolutely *sucked* on defense. Habana over him, no competition. Joost van der Westhuizen was able to stop Jonah by himself. The scrum half. Jonah was very good against people who had poor tackling form. Today's modern players would stifle him all day.
DuPreez is arguably the best scrumhalf of all time. Justin Marshall isn't even in the competition.
Right call on Monty, the dolphin saviour.
I had exactly the same choice for SA as U di.. to the player!!
Well done
Really appreciated your analysis.
As a South African, it was hard to agree with some decisions, but I couldn't argue.
But I would like to say I think Juan Smith was a very unrated player.
He was exceptionally strong.
Juan Smith, McCaw and PSDT together in the same team would be unbeatable
Cool video Tim! Agree with all your selections but I would have put de Allende above De Villiers-and-Nonu.
De Allende only playing smart last two years. Before that he was a just a battering ram .no rugby intellect ...kriel was the same . They got better with age ...
2015 Savea was arguably the best wing the world has ever seen - so depends if this is a career vs career or year vs year choice
One thing to consider in addition to this would be the squad 23 as that was an integral part of the team.
I agree with your combinations 😎👌🏾🇿🇦🇳🇿
This was a fun one to watch, thanks for this vid,”! Please do an Eng 03 NZ 15 SA 23 comparison. I’m from SA and I hate to admit it but the Eng 03 squad was a legendary squad that outclassed all teams of their generation and would probably beat or get close to beating the SA 07/19/23 squads and NZ 11/15 squads
F. Dupreez was one of few players that has a positive win ratio vs. the All Blacks. So when he was on the field, the Boks would usually beat them.
Tim weldone again, but when ever you again see the W Cup final 2015 v Aust. See how Nigel Owens allows Richie McCaw to enter the 1st ruck as blatently from the side as can, without penalizing. We are generalising that Nigel always favoured NZ, and can give many examples.
Hope again lovely time for you in SA.
Welcome back to SA, Tim. I hope you're packing some warm clothes for Cape Town. There's snow on Table Mountain!
Agree with most of the comments here. AB's 2011-2015 were something else. Could tear any other team apart at will. Current SA side have some way to go in terms of proving themselves (loss against Ireland hurt us in that sense) From a Saffa
Welcome back Tim.
This just makes me miss Conrad and Nonu even more... lol😂
Every time you do a video like this I want to see a Combined Southern Hemisphere team to play the home nations and France, and maybe even a Combined Northern Hemisphere team. Just imagine the absolute Hype that would create in the world of rugby! It would be HUGE!
I wonder if a SANZAAR team playing a Nothern Hemisphere team at the end of the same year as the Lions tour would work?
Naas Botha was one of the best. Unfortunately for him the SA politics didn't do him any favour's.