The Tonewood Challenge!
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- Is a solid body electric guitar's overall sound affected by the wood it's made of? We had two guitars built exactly the same way: the only difference being the wood. Is there any noticeable difference? You tell me!
Many thanks to Charbonneau Guitars for building these two amazing instruments! www.charbonneau...
Pickups by DiMarzio: www.dimarzio.com/
Tuners and Tusq Nut by Graphtech: graphtech.com/
Bridges by Hipshot: hipshotproduct...
Challenge Details:
The first person in the comments to correctly identify what times each guitar is playing in the full mix demo will win one of these two guitars! (I'm keeping the other one!). There are no visual references whatsoever, you'll have to use your ears.
About Spectre Sound Studios:
I'm Glenn Fricker, engineer here at Spectre Sound Studios. I love making records, and after doing it for sixteen years, I want to pass on what I've learned. On my channel you can find tutorials on how to record guitar, bass, real drums and vocals. There's reviews and demos of tube amps, amp sims, drums, mics, preamps, outboard gear, Electric Guitar, Bass Guitar, and plugin effects.
We've covered Moon on the Water, played Bias FX, given you the absolute best in Stupid Musician Texts, ranted & raved about bass guitar, and this channel is where The Eagle has Landed.
Everything you've wanted to learn about recording Hard Rock & Heavy Metal can be found right here on this channel!
I also respond to your comments & questions: The best make it into the SMG Viewer's Comments series of videos. Loads of fun, lots of laughs.
Thanks for checking out my channel & please subscribe!
Oh boy, time to turn the tiny speakers of my cellphone up.
😂
@@manuelninogarces9574 You know some of those wannabe tone specialists will do exactly that.
🤣
Heavy metal music demands a guitar built from heavy metal. The logic is flawless.
I would like a Gitler please
What kind of rock should I make my guitar with for rock and roll?
@Cyrus Freeman I started out with rolls but the Kaiser roll did not have much sustain. Now I am going to work with rocks
Works for the Melvins
Mercury burst
Got the "Warning" email yesterday and was like "sure Glenn, okay" then I clicked through the discord notification and saw the title and said aloud, "aw fuck, here we go", great work, dude!
that's just what I was thinking 😅
If you did a blind test of twenty different "tone" woods and just used the same sound sample for each one there would still be people saying there was a difference.
Yeah and those are the people who are full of shit.
And if you would take 20 different take with same guitar, would be someone thinking different woods were used for sure.
If my Grandma had wheels she'd be a wagon
But there IS a difference, and that's a fact no matter how often a few deaf people deny it. Wood choice does matter.
@Turboy65 only matters in acoustic builds. For electrics, wood density might affect sustain. If sustain is tone, then you are correct.
I can pinpoint the exact moment Glenns tone went from apathetic to brutal when he said I needed to practice more.
I don't know why he just doesn't ask for DI tracks from guitar players. I'd give him DI tracks for free😉
I bet Glenn used different vacuum tubes for each take just for laughs :D
No need to touch a tube if its perfect.
1st switch 12:24
2nd 12:35
3rd 12:49
May just be the effect
@@hadleymanmusic remember, if you touch a tube your skin oils will make it burn up faster 😂😂😂
Luis Tijerina yes but not quite. The oils off your skin will make a hot spot where you touched the glass. Which could potentially pop or crack the tube. Happens all the time with halogen lightbulbs
I didn't really understand the thing about the tubes. Did he mean you can't hear the differences of old vs new tubes or that you can't hear the differences of tubes from different manufacturers?
Plot twist: Both guitars are playing in the full mix but are hard-panned left and right.
So which one is on the left is the only question.
Yup. A is the one to the right, B to the left. A is the African tone wood, B is the crappy one ;)
Lost this one. Wrong.
Exactly what I thought
i was thinking the same thing
Son: Mom! I want Seek and Destroy!
Mom: We have Seek and Destroy at home!
The Seek and Destroy at home:
You beat me to it haha
I was singing along instead of listening to the guitars
🤣🤣🤣 Glenn should send you one of those guitars just for this comment..
I was getting tilted by the tone he dialed in (long shitty day), until this comment made me audibly chuckle.
hahahaha yep. It IS about boys with toys, mostly. I love my toys just like the rest of 'em!
Tonewood nerds be like "can't buy a guitar made with basswood or anything shitty" then put active pickups in their guitar
If basswood is good enough for Joe Satriani, it’s good enough for me.
@@damienalvarez2957 or Steve Vai for that matter
@@DatMetalBoi75 or noone for that matter. If it feels good to play, dont look at what is it.
People diss on basswood because it's often used in cheap guitars for cost cutting, and yes, there are pretty cheap basswood available. That being said, there are different grades of wood and you're not getting the same piece of basswood in a $3000 VS a $200 guitar.
So you say Fishman pickups are bad?
I did somethong like this before out of boredom. I made a guitar from walnut, one from basswood and one from birch ply, all cnc'ed identically and using the same necks and parts. Was a total waste of time only to find out that a heavier material results in a heavier instrument.
A word to the wise! :DD
HEAVIER TOEN!!!1111omgoneoneone
Next thing you know, people will start telling me that I wasted $500 on Billy Corgan's Toan Paint.
least it wasnt on his Poan Taint ....
Actually, the colour has a huge effect on tone. I just watched Steve Vai play on a white Ibanez Jem at the Astoria and it sounded fantastic. But, when I tried to emulate it on my yellow RG, it sounded absolute shite. Coincidence?
@@dogsnuts722 Red guitars are the fastest.
Mellon head and the Infinite Baldness.
I thought this was a joke about what a dammed goof Billy Corgan is. But nope, The guy really did say colour of paint affects the sound.. Oo Don't do drugs or have sex with Courtney love!
Laughed out loud with the mic thing 😂😂
Everyone like "AH HAA!! It's SO MUCH BRIGHTER!...oh..."
Yeah... you just gonna keep both guitars for yourself and you know that, Glenn...
Nice move, smooth one
"You should stop worrying about tonewoods, and work on your skills instead." Amen!
As a German I have to say: that was a flawless impression of a German. "You"re going to do it wrong!!!" :)
Also as a German and knowing @eytschpi42 I can totally agree on that lol
I for one am happy that I don't need to spend any mental energy thinking about what tubes or tone wood to use. That means I can focus more on practicing guitar, writing songs, and getting better at mixing! Thank you Glenn for putting this argument to rest!
Cabinet speaker and pickups however will still haunt you.
This is like a show I saw where they took a gaggle of spoiled rich girls and had them blind taste test a $500 wine and an $8 wine. One girl couldn't tell at all, and the rest made fun of her like she was beneath them; as though they were superior for needing more money to get drunk.
@@BigScaryGary Also a timely reminder to never listen to marketing wanketeers and to trust your ears.
well said Joey
Looks like you spend all your mental energy leaving stupid comments on RUclips! Good job 👍
Oh lawd....Saw the title and was like "All hell is about to break loose"
I love this! As a luthier who formerly worked for Mayones in Gdansk, my thoughts are that while yes, the density of a wood certainly has an effect on the tone, there are (more often than not) just too many variables to account for what exactly you're hearing. There's no guarantee that two sets of the same pickup are wound perfectly. String densities and production flaws can effect brightness. Generally the reflection of the vibrations vs the absorption by the wood will affect how the humbucker picks up the tone. Isn't that why we use softer wood for bass guitars, to dampen the bright tones? So, onto the challenge. Here's my perception of what I heard: Started with B, changed to A a 12:37, the dampened pinch harmonics after 12:52 sound like B, but the mix finished with A. Wouldn't surprise me though, if Glenn fucking used the same guitar throughout, which was probably B. Fun shit, I love this kind of video!
I think, that the differences I hear is caused by the minor differences of the electronics, rather than the material of the guitars.
swap the pickups and the same pots into another guitar and it sounds the same. just swapping pickups into another guitar could have pots with lower or higher impedance.
@@destroyerdestroy87 Even with the same Pickups you could have a sound difference because you will be not able to set the Pickup String height exactly the same. And yes this will have a bigger effect than the Tonewood itself.
Do this same test with Fishmans. The printed circuits aren't subject to the same variability as wire coils.
Les Paul said in a documentary about his life that the best sounding guitar he ever played in his entire life was one he made out of a railroad tie. But he couldn't tour with it as a jazz musician because it was too heavy and big. That definitely stuck with him throughout his career, since his signature guitar via Gibson weighs half a ton 😆
Round 1: Even I can hear this! - Damm, trolled.
Round 2: Still seems like "B" is thinner/brighter
Round 3: Now the difference seems like my imagination than really hearing it.
Round 4: Oh f***.
Agreed. In round 2, guitar B definitely sounded brighter. In round 3, guitar B had *slightly* less bass but not much of a difference. Round 4, not a clue haha
Based on the myths we grew up with, by round 2 I say A is mahogany/ebony and B is ash/maple. But round 3 really made it almost unrecognizable.
It was weird in round 2 the second one sounded brighter but the 3rd round guitar b sounded darker. I'm confusion lol. I'm not blind to the fact that the biggest change is tone is your pickups, I just found this odd lol
I had the exact same expirience...
1 and 2 yeah, just as you said it, 3 was just sustain difference, and as for 4 did anyone really hear difference? xD I mean i'm noob when it comes to guitar so my pleb ears probably prank me anyway lmao
Oh boy, you really had me with that different mic!
He had me too...
Dammit Glenn, the first time through I was like “I hear it! I hear the difference I’ve got superhuman hearing” then you pulled that out on me
haha ya it was a good troll
and it shows your MIC makes a TON more difference than your tonewood.
That was a hell of a trick to pull, even for Glenn!
Sounded like the difference between a neck and bridge pickup to me that first time lol
Or middle position on both, but a shift in height between them.
@@nicholasmullins3693 That's exactly what it sounded like to me as well. Using the same mic helped, but one still sounded brighter. When they were put into the mix (I'm assuming both guitars were actually used), that all went out the window.
Glen is the modern day "the sun doesn't rotate around the earth" scientist.
Just for giggles, could you do a follow up where you buy the cheapest guitar squier makes, upgrade the hardware, and compare it to an expensive fender with similar hardware in a full mix? Is it worth buying expensive or buy cheap and put what you want on it and save money??
I can answer this from experience.
With a more expensive guitar, you are generally getting better QC, and higher quality materials outside of swappable hardware. Paint quality/durability, quality of the wood, fret work/material (yes this is swappable but extremely costly lol) better craftsmanship in general, etc. Cheaper guitars can sound good or equivalent to pricier guitars but they can almost always be identified as cheap when they are picked up and played. Personally, I like to buy cheap-ish guitars and upgrade them, but not the cheapest guitars. For example, I own 2 MIM strats that are hot rodded out but no american ones, but I never found any Squier that I enjoyed playing, even though the Classic Vibe ones are generally considered pretty good.
I personally give the advice to go to a store and pick up guitars and play them until you find one that feels right regardless of sound, then upgrade the sound to your liking. I've played many 300-600 dollar guitars that I heavily preferred the feel (and even the sound) of over $2000+ guitars
@@ShiningXwolf Yup it's not far off from a car. They'll all go A to B but some get there in style, others just get there. And just like the best drivers could squeeze more out of less, so can a better guitar player imo. It's a relative equation of comfortability, affordability, and just regular ability lol.
A thing I've heard about Squiers (tele at least) is the general construction is pretty good, it's the hardware and electronics that seem incredibly cheap. So I'd love to see a test like this too.
I bought a squier bullet strat HSS as the third electric guitar I've owned and spent some time setting it up for heavier (10-52 vs 9-42) strings, polished the frets because they were the scratchiest I've ever seen and rubbed the fretboard down with some oil from Crimson Guitars to rid it of the factory-floor dust look. It plays well, sounds better (I think the scratchy frets made more of a difference there than anything else, sandpaper vibrato sounds horrible no matter the pickups) but I'll never be rid of the dent in the neck that was there when I bought it. Fortunately I do not care and intend to beat it up anyway
Mike Rutherford just did exactly that. Played a Bullet Squire on the last Genesis tour. Think he upgraded the tuning heads but otherwise it was stock.
Synesthesia: When a band claims they think their recording sounds better when you tell them you recorded on analog tape, even if you didn't.
Red guitars definitely sound warmer than blue guitars.
And that, my man is one of my secrets when it comes to my most stubborn clients
What's funny is that, you can mix using analog equipment all you want, but the SECOND that it touches a modern DAW (which it has to, if you actually want to make the files/discs that most people are actually going to listen to), it becones digital.
@@alrebor2089 I know this comment is a month old but I feel the need to let you know at least one person appreciates the absolute metal in this reference. WAAAAGH!
If the full mix is really what glen says it is, and he's not screwing with us, I CAN'T hear a difference and I'm glad. It's one less thing to worry about when I inevitably go looking for a new guitar.
Thanks Glenn.
(And thanks for the free recording course, I hope I'll suck less after it).
This is the legit result. Do keep in mind that electronics and pick-ups do have SOME influence. But once you stop this much distrortion on anything.. really doesn't matter much. Buy something you enjoy playing and looks good to you :D
@@SyntheticFuture Yes, That's what i thought.
If there is any recognizable difference between two guitars,if anything, it's the pickups. But when you go into high gain, EQ is the main thing.
(As in taking a 1k frequency 3-5db lower changes the sound drastically.
I'm not a recording engineer, I'm just a guy recording his crappy guitar riffs in his bedroom, but this is my oppinion.
Feel free to correct anything, I'm happy to learn.
@@gamefan6142 I think you are dead on. Depending on how you record there's a bunch of things to consider. Most likely you record straight into DAW. Get a nice Scarlett interface or similar. A good cable (don't overspend but get one that isn't complete trash). Maybe a few pedals if that's your jam and invest in software. If you record a head+cab invest in a good (or pair of) mic(s).
That will probably be your best bet.
it's still ok to have wood preferences, as long as you admit they're preferences.
@@SyntheticFuture I don't worry about that. I use bias fx. I got it a year ago and haven't played a real amp since. I got a behringer UM202 or similar and I record straight into reaper through bias fx vst.
Nice comparison... One is definitely brighter clean but in the mix ... I couldn't tell the difference!!
Exactly. Clean they were slightly different but with distortion they were exactly the same to me
That's what I'm hearing too
The difference is also so negligible that simply adjusting the eq would "fix" it. I'm willing to bet that's not even necessary if you put the clean tones in an actual mix too.
@@TheRealWalkingDude That's exactly how it is.
And bet that many people would "notice" a huge difference if they could actually _see_ the guitars...😁
I heard differences in all the solo tests, but so subtle I’m like whyyy?!! In the mix it all disappears maybe like twice i heard a shift in tone. But such a subtle shift it could just be in my head. Great blind test - one of the best on the channel.
I used to believe in tonewood.
Then I recorded actual A/B/C comparisons changing out different bodies or necks.
Then I stopped caring a single fuck about it. Any guitar that STAYS IN TUNE is good enough for me.
I dont care if its made of alder or plywood or cardboard!
to my mortal ears, if you hadn't told me that you were swapping guitars in the mix, I would never know. However my mortal ears definitely appreciate that sweet snare and gnarly bass.
guitars swaps every 2 compases in mi opinion, starting with the guitar A, the darker one and it ends on guitar A
Henning had a point. When you want to hear the difference is birds calls, you don't try them out with a jet overhead. Hell, in a dense, distorted mix, you could swap out drum kits and cymbals and not know. Hence, the difference was pronounced when out of the youtube, mp3 file "mix".
Right channel
Guitar A from 12:08 to 12:35
Guitar b from 12:35 to 12:47
Guitar A from 12:47 to 13:06
Guitar b from 13:06 to 13:19
Guitar A from 13:19 to 13:21
Left channel
Guitar A from 12:08 to 12:35
Guitar b from 12:35 to 12:47
Guitar A from 12:47 to 12:49
Guitar b from 12:49 to 12:50
Guitar A from 12:50 to 13:19
Guitar b from 13:19 to 13:21
Nope
Just imagine if at the end glen played a fast one on us and didn’t change guitars in the final section just to see if people argued lol
That's bullshit because nobody wants to start an argument but you. Prove me wrong.
@@bennyshaversmusic590 proof of you being wrong: you're trying to start an argument by asking to be proven wrong
@@olivermead415 was a joke man lol
@@bennyshaversmusic590 bUt iTs a pArAdOx
In the clean test with the same mic, A still sounds "warmer" and has more bass. B guitar was crisp and high. Hard to tell in the full metal mix.
Oh boy, this one is gonna rustle some jimmies. Can't wait to see Attack Of The Tone-Deaf Twits for VC :D
I came here to have my jimmy rustled and was very disappointed.
I'll challenge that.. not a "tone deaf twit"
I love how you were trolling us from the first audio samples by using a different mic 🤣 lol!
Yeah. xD That was the only time in this video that I heard a difference.
It was a good one. The difference was audible. The others not so much.
I took this as a challenge as an amateur tone chaser, but I see a change at 13:12 -- unfortunately, that was found by few other people on comments at this point. Furthermore, they have guessed the guitars in detail, also.
Let me explain my engineering process though -- the segment begins ~12:08 and ends at 13:20, there are about 72 seconds to it, so I separated it into 4 segments to see if one differs more than the other. I reckoned the difference between the first quarter and the last quarter (first quarter has some more high harmonics than the last quarter...so I listened it closer and I found the difference). I assumed that was the only one shift, so I noted and looked up the comments to see if that was that obvious.
It was, and it was probably the most obvious shift in the whole segment, furthermore, all these keen ears figured out the guitar changes too!!
The moral of the story: me being a guitar player, I really need to chase my skills before my tone, those who could tell the difference and whatnot are probably luthiers or sound engineers, not a lead guitar player who writes songs, who occasionally chase tones (if you were all of above, you are freaking awesome!!) -- there are always bigger fish, but I could've practiced about at least 3 songs with the time I spent figuring out. Furthermore, as a guitar player, I was bothered much more by the guitar tracks' lugs in the recording than the tone itself lol
That's been said, I will have my first gig with my band tomorrow as a lead guitar player with a tired 10 years old Axis AX 40 guitar. It's been just about 10 years also since I played with "my band" (not with the same people) in high school. Wish me luck :D follow me on IG: @dollardashphi
...I don't know why you decided to finish reading this comment, but thank you!! You are awesome, and loved, have a wonderful day!!
Alright! Here goes my guess for the swap challenge!
Swap #1: 12:13
Swap #2: 12:16
Swap #3: 12:19
Swap #4: 12:25
Swap #5: 12:38
Swap #6: 12:41
Swap #7: 12:54
Swap #8: 12:57
Swap #9: 13:00
Swap #10: 13:06
Swap #11: 13:13
Some parts are really hard, if not to say almost impossible to detect changes, but on each swap that I detected, it was because of very slight changes on the mid-range and upper mids frequencies, maybe some swaps weren't swaps at all and it was only a playing style change.
The proper test would be to use only one set of pickups and other electronics, just swap the body. I bet there's more difference in the tolerance of the electric components than there is in the wood.
Yes the +/- tolerances of the potentiometers Will make more of a difference than wood type.
I’m gonna laugh if in a week if he reveals that there were no changes and it was just one guitar the entire time
I'm thinking is was Guitar B the whole time.
That’s what I’m thinking, too. I honestly feel it was Guitar A due to the natural brightness, and it could’ve been just a change in picking technique or slight differences in mic placement. Could be wrong though.
This reminds me of an old interview with Eric Johnson who claims (Claimed) he could hear the difference between battery brands in his effects. Musical mythology lives!
Ironically, being able to hear different battery brands may be possible because different batteries could have wildly different voltages and current capacities. Certain pedal circuits are quite sensitive to this, and the tone can change a lot. For example, if the circuit draws more current, some batteries will dip in voltage much more than others. Depending on the circuit, especially some that need voltage biasing (like JFETS) this can change the tone dramatically.
But for "tonewoods" for electric guitars -- especially on medium to high gain -- that's more myth than reality.
Yup some pedals and power supplies have a "sag" option that lets you simulate a dying battery. As dumb as it sounds, it's probably more realistic to hear a difference in batteries than tonewood.
Sounds like mental problem.😢
Alright, here goes:
12:09 Ash
12:16 Mahogany
12:42 Ash
13:13 Mahogany
Even if this is entirely wrong, I'll check out Charbonneau Guitars! I love a local product ;)
I know this is all about guitar, but man I'm always impressed about how good your drums sound! Always ! Please share your toontrack preset ! 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I absolutely hated that snare sound, which went boooink and sounded like a drunken pogo stick.
@@Ndlanding How in the hell does a pogo stick get drunk
@@matturner6890 You obviously haven't seen a Scottish pogo stick.
Saw the title and gave an immediate thumbs up. Good work.
I have absolutely no clue so here I go embarrassing myself:
12:09 guitar a
12:13 guitar b
12:25 guitar a
12:35 guitar b
12:41 guitar a
13:00 guitar b
13:09 guitar a
Have fun laughing at me :)
The conclusion I've drawn is this: The difference in the clean tones are clear as day. The difference becomes less and less noticeable as the gain is turned up. That might lead people to believe that the wood doesn't matter at all, but even metal has sections with clean guitar. But while having a brighter wood might give those clean sections the chime in the top end you're after, it's probably easier to just use an shelf EQ somewhere between 8-12khz
I did my best (I named them after the freetboard wood):
FIRST TEST: (9:02)
A Ebony - B Maple
SECOND TEST: (9:50)
A Maple - B Ebony
THIRD TEST: (10:42)
A Maple - B Ebony
LAST TEST: (12:09)
12:09 Maple
12:16 Ebony
12:25 Maple
12:29 Ebony
12:35 Maple
12:38 Ebony
12:41 Maple
12:44 Ebony
12:54 Maple
13:00 Ebony
I heard a slight difference when they were clean. In the full mix, I heard no change at all. Either way. The guitars sounded good
Same. As someone that thought tonewood was a myth, I was surprised at how drastic the difference was in the cleans, but as soon as the gain starts getting piled on, those differences disappear.
None. Wood is not magnetic and does not conduct electricity.
Knowing Glenn's love of DIs and sense of trolling, I think he did two DI tracks and switched them repeatedly...to the point that even if you could hear the differences, it'd be an excercise just trying to time stamp it.
Right, I might be imagining all of this, but I'm going to go with the following:
12:08 Ash
12:16 Mahogany
12:29 Ash
12:41 Mahogany
12:47 Ash
12:54 Mahogany
13:03 Ash
13:13 Mahogany
It is entirely possible that you only swapped guitars once at 12:16 and my ears are hearing differences where there aren't any because it seems odd to only give us eight seconds of the first guitar. It is also possible that for unknown reasons the mahogany guitar sounds brighter than the ash guitar and I've got them the wrong way round. Or maybe it's all the same guitar and you wanted to see if some know-it-all dickhead insists that there were huuuuuuge differences.
Anyway, nice experiment. I think tone wood matters quite a bit less than the type of plectrum you use.
😳
I really love the note you ended on on this episode. There's a huge difference between players' habbits and technique that affect the tone more than the type of wood used. Rabea Massaad on That Pedal Show showed how just passing his guitar along to the hosts changed the tone because his signal chain accounts for the dynamics of his more aggressive picking compared to the hosts.
The timing and feel of the whoever's playing with the drummer is really grotty.
One of the guitars sounded slightly brighter in the clean test. Once gain was introduced, no noticeable difference. I love those tests and the content in general! Thank you for all the work you put into it!
More higher midtones, not so much brightness but.. this is where just playing differently, even if it is minute amounts, is too great of a variable. But, the second felt like it just a bit more upper mids, i would have to play it myself to know. I did grew up in instrument repair shop, the findings here are perfectly in line with everything i knew from before. Musicians are often woefully ignorant of their own instruments and what really matters when it comes to sound. For wind instruments, the sound is formed in the mouthpiece and the first bends of the pipe. Metal quality has less importance, but like wood instruments, all the joints are VERY important. It needs to be as uniform and solid as possible, but this does not mean, annoyingly, that neck-thru-body is that much if any better from bolted neck. I wish things were that simple.
Mics are the most important thing in guitar sound and there the mic types have big differences but the sound between two mics of the same type just don't. Note: there are LOADS of exotic solutions, so two humbuckers can sound wildly different, but can also sound absolutely identical and price has very little to do with any of it.
True
Yup, B sounded much better to me in the clean test to me.
@@squidcaps4308 What you said about playing differently is really striking. Until someone tests the tonewood idea with a guitar robot that can play the exact same performance twice on two different guitars, trying to compare minute differences between them is going to be near impossible. A spectrum analyzer comparison would probably also be necessary, since it's easy enough to hear things that aren't there when you have an idea in your head.
Yes. Even I, dumb as I am, could hear a difference in the clean test. I assume there was a difference in the high gain tests but, whatever that difference could be, no one should lose any sleep over it.
Great video. I'm an 'audiophile' in that I have very good audio equipment and listen to music as a primary activity. I couldn't distinguish between guitars in the full mix (but I can tell you your bass drum was definitely in phase :D )
I predict that plenty of people will claim (after the fact) that they can hear the difference clearly, if it's ever revealed which guitar is which.
When you feel a guitar vibrate against you, you're feeling the low frequencies created by the strings vibrating. High frequencies are weaker than low frequencies, and would largely be absorbed by the wood before they even had a chance to interact with the strings again. Once I realized this physics reality, a specific point made by a specific bearded man with such confidence sounded very silly... I'm glad you called it "sustain wood", I thought of that term myself a while ago and it's so true. A Les Paul sounds fatter than an SG, but that's down to the construction and not the material. "Tone wood" is just a more marketable name that plays into the mythos of electric guitar, stolen from the acoustic world and perpetuated by guitar players desperate to make their craft seem more sophisticated and important. All wood sounds awful if you value it more than your technique.
I think the biggest difference in tonewood was summed up in Rhett Shull's video What Is The 1959 Les Paul Sound?
, where he said "it's really about the players and the music that was created using those tools, using those instruments". The whole debate on tonewood probably comes from trying to find a reason a guitar (such as a 1959 les paul) sounds so good, when in reality, it sounds good because the music recorded with it is so good.
Guitar B to A at 12min16 -- A to B at 12min26 -- B to A at 12min29 -- A to B at 12min 40 -- B to A at 12min49 -- A to B at 12min 54 -- B to A at 12min57 (something is not right) -- B to A at 12min59 -- A to B at 13min05 -- (something is not right either over her) 13min10 -- 13min15.
Over all to be honest, the first change I really ear a brighter tone to a darker tone. It could be also the way it was picked. At 12min57 there is definitely a cut cause it sounds flatter. But for tonewood, there is no drastic change not to say any change.
The point about synesthesia and the wood colors effecting what people expect is great and also something that drives me insane. If you've ever heard a fretless bass, one of the few situations with an electric instrument where the string *is* directly contacting and affected by the wood, you'll know that harder woods like ebony sound brighter, which makes perfect sense. Softer materials absorb more sound, and of course high frequencies are more easily absorbed than low frequencies, thus the result is "darker".
But even then, it's not a major difference on fretless bass unless you go all the way to something drastic like an epoxied or glass fingerboard, and adding metal frets to the equation completely negates it. And obviously the acoustic properties may not exactly correlate to the way that magnetic pickups "hear" strings, but there definitely seems to be *some* relationship, you can hear that with things like harder stainless steel strings being brighter than nickel plated strings, etc.
Which reminds me, if you want a brighter sound, try brighter strings.
And, even if there may be some miniscule difference from the wood, electronics tolerances from pots, caps, different pickups (even 2 of the same pickup that came off the line at the same time) will always be more significant. If you want your guitar to sound better, get better electronics (pickups first, usually). If you REALLY want your guitar to sound better, learn to dial tones properly... And play properly.
I can't believe this debate is still ongoing despite there having never been any indication that electric guitar tonewood is anything more than a marketing gimmick with no practical application, and a pointless marketing gimmick that guitarists fall for solely because they love snake oil even more than middle class wine moms love falling for MLM pyramid schemes.
Thus concludes my morning rant about stupid musician shit.
I mean I'd be interested in meeting the person who is convinced that swapping woods in their guitar is the way to go in changing the sound. I feel like arguing against that is creating an imaginary opponent.
I would think the energy going in and out the vibrating string changed how the pickups receive the signal, for affectig how the string vibrates, based on how you can create a wave in a string applying a frequency outside pivot points similar to guitar bridge and nut. Or even just knocking the body should imply that energy is transferred to some extent. Emphasizing or dampening some frequencies, overtones for example depending on how they line up. Not the same way as for example a vibrating string can make another string vibrate, but similarly, and perhaps not in very significant measures.
What was fascinating was Aaron from Warmoth doing A/B clips with the same body but different necks, or necks from the same piece of wood but different fretboard.
Pretty good morning rant. How many coffees deep were you for that one?
@@Yupppi You say that it's an imaginary opponent, but I have seen a significant number of people who buy specific guitars solely for the wood type for "tonal" reasons, or that replace the neck/body with a different one to get a different species of wood to brighten their sound etc. before even thinking about pots, pickups, strings, etc.
As for the way energy is transferred, etc., yes, as I said, there may be some miniscule impact, but nothing you'd be able to hear any meaningful difference from a clean DI in isolation, let alone in the context of a mix or going through an amp/with effects on.
The impact (and impulse) of a hand hitting a guitar when knocking on it is going to be significantly greater than that of a tiny guitar string vibrating, as well, so it's hard to think that it would really be a significant factor given that of the dozens of tonewood tests I've seen over the years all have failed to show any real difference
Shifting picking hand placement further back for a brighter tone and also changing guitar pick will make just as drastic, if more drastic changes to your guitar sound than just going for "brighter" strings. Also, simply picking harder will do that too :) But hey, considering gibson had "tone oil" for fretboards in their stock, do you really wonder why this debate is still going on? :) People want to make believe and want to think the world is a special, spiritual place. Can't blame them for searching for a "grass is greener on the other side" way out, but certainly can't agree with them. It's all a matter of perspective.
@@Yupppi The changes in neck swapping can easily come down to a wide variety of things. I looked at his video "maple vs. mahagony." I almost died laughing. Look at his picking hand. Look where he picks on the maple/maple and maple/rosewood comparison. He is almost a centimeter away from his earlier picking position. On Mahagony/Rosewood he might even be a tad further behind too. It's completely disingenuous. It's not fascinating at all. It's either simple human error or intentional manipulation. Something similar happened there with the nickel/stainless frets as well. What Stainless really does for you is prolonging the life of your frets. The sound debate or physical reasoning behind if it has a tad longer sustain or not should be swiped under the rug at that point. Ever seen glass or ceramic frets?
I think my hypothesis holds, the wood does "change" the tone in a really minor way that's only really noticeable in clean tone. Theres just SO much that goes into making the tone of a guitar and when you add the band and effects/distortion it's kinda hard to hear the difference, does that mean you wasted 5k on a tonewood guitar? Honestly if you like it and it's worth it to you then absolutely not, it's just not a nessecity to be an amazing guitarist
Buying an expensive tone wood guitar is just like buying expensive furniture. It's a luxury, even if an IKEA bookshelf could've done the job just as well.
@@DantesGrill cant agree more, it reminds me of his video about expensive gear in live situations, so many people got defensive about how they buy their gear for themselves so his video was irrelevant, it's totally fine to love your expensive guitars or amps but that never makes it nessescary
I heard the difference with the distorted guitars in ISO too. What I found was that there were more "partials" (sympathetically resonating frequencies) with the one guitar over the other in the lower register. Maybe he played it differently? I kinda don't think it was that different. The thing was it was not an earth shattering difference but guitar A has a slightly fuller tone there. To his point though. In the mix any difference was completely lost although my sense is that it would really depend on what you are doing at the time with the music as that is a thing that if stacked for example might make an enhanced difference. Hard to say. I always say this. The player is the one who is going to make the most difference anyway. What is inspiring them? What are they comfy with?
9:44 that was harsh, cuz I was expecting almost unnoticeable difference between the guitars:D
Guitar A - mahogany
Guitar B - ash
12:08 -
Left channel - B
Right channel - A
12:18
L- A
R - B
12:34
L - B
R - A
12:53
L - A
R - B
Amazing Test Glenn. It gave a really minute difference in the clean tone(A - Mahogany, B - Ash) but not so much when driven (A - Ash, B - Mahogany), especially unnoticable in the full mix (although some other guitar youtubers had a different results on clean and heavy distorted tones). This test was perfectly accurate, especially in terms of high gain metal tones. Great Job Glenn. Also can't wait to see the "Attack of the Tonewood Fanboys" episode.
yeah i agree with your a/b assessent, in addition tho like a gibson LP also weighs much more than a strat, strats rarely have hardtails (gross), scale length (affecting how you play them), pickups like -- it's not as if two guitars do not sound different lol
@@ravenecho2410 I kinda agree. But bridges do not make that much of difference. Majority of the tone is in the speakers. However at same amp settings, the guitar weight, and pickups don't affect the tone, but rather, the output signal level which drives the amp. Even HSH Strats are heavyweight enough to drive the amp hard than any thinner bodied guitar.
You got me with the mic thing :D I was like "Hold up, I didn't expect to hear a difference...", but moments later I got my answer as to why I did.
Darrell Braun Guitar did a test a while back where he started with a completed guitar, then cut pieces off. By the end there was a tone difference, but it was small enough it would most likely make no difference in a mix or live setting. Worth checking out for those interested.
The problem with that video being, that he still strummed manually, so there is still a chance that he strummed harder on one take than on another, affecting the sustain, and despite his "guideline" he might just as well start correctly on the low string, but slanted out into the wrong direction due to the guitar not feeling like he used to any more, resulting in a brighter tone. You can CLEARLY see, because of his own centerline that he made, that he picked further back with the guitar that was cut back the most. This is the only reason it resulted in a brighter tone, NOT the removed wood.
He made the mistake of strumming in a sitting position, and not put the guitar down flat. But even then, he made the mistake of strumming manually, introducing human error on attack strength. There is no clinical and proper solid body guitar tone test out there, not even the strandberg one :) If anyone would finally make one, then it would put the debate to an end being; "tonewood doesn't exist for solid body electric guitars, it's just feelgoodwood."
Darrell was just looking for views. None of what he did was scientific.
@@Khunvyel there is one test where the guy made a neck that held the pickups and he swapped the neck & pickups to different body wood types. To my surprise, you could hear a difference between bodies.
It's Tim Sway. If you search "tone wood test" it's the first result.
That drum fill at 12:52 is 🤟
Listening with Yamaha monitors, At first, I think the Guitar A on clean sound is the guitar B on Revv.
On clean, A sounds with more lowmedium | B more sound arround 1kHz. with the Revv, I hear the A with the 1kHz mediums, few treble less. And the B have a "deeper" responds with a bit of palm mute, so, for me, the B guitar with Revv is the the tone of the A guitar from the clean test.
SO I'll call the fender Clean A -> "Loud" and the fender Clean B "Medium"
12:09 - Loud
12:12 - Med
12:26 - Loud
12:37 - Med
12:53 - Loud
13:17 - Med
Thank you very much for this test Glenn !
if you troll the golden ears playing the same clip in both A and B their golden ear is so gold that they will hear the difference
Nothing can wake me up better in the morning than the good ol Glenn REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Did you mean nothing can wake you up better in the morning than Glenn's wood?
When you run out of weird noises to put in your breakdown...
@@Yupppi Glenn's morning wood
The very first two seconds from 12:09 to 12:11 are very confusing to me because the guitar sounds louder and midrangier than anything else in the rest of the recording but other than that I would say:
Guitar A is ash guitar B is mahogany.
12:15 change from mahogany (B) one guitar to ash one (A).
12:20 change from ash guitar (A) to the mahogany one (B).
12:24 change from the mahogany guitar (B) to the ash one (A).
12:35 change from the ash guitar (A) to the mahogany one (B).
13:11 change from the mahogany guitar (B) to the ash one (A).
Moving the picking position a few millimeters is enough to change the tone considerably so this is pretty much impossible lol
Interesting, at least I am not alone on the bet that guitar A is Ash and guitar B is mahogany. Still I could not really take the guitars apart in the full mix.
Considering first two seconds being louder, that's the master bus compressor kicking in. Glenn compresses heavily with ssl-style master bus compressor, so such side-effects are expected.
Not gonna lie, I didn't think guitars that are just plain ol exposed wood would look that good !
They have been torched a bit. Not a new thing, but it is rare. Looks great!
@@Keshro Ohhh, thanks for the info !
As primarily a bass player, I've always preferred exposed wood over painted.
I probably didn't nail a single thing on this :D
but here I go anyway:
12:09 - guitar b
12:16 - guitar a
12:34 - guitar b
12:41 - guitar a
12:47 - guitar b
13:13 - guitar a
I think I go like 0 right, but it was a fun challenge.
Myself, I am not a huge tonewood guy, I've been playing guitar for about 2.5 years and I am working on my skills instead of worrying about tonewood :D
Nice to see my TONE WOOD debate still alive and world wide. Groovy video.
Glenn Fricker: debunking myths of the guitar world, one REEEEEEEEEEEE at a time!
There are only 2 criterias for me in guitar woods the,
"Ow my back, I'm gonna need to see a chiropractor" Criteria
and the
"Jesus fucking Christ this might as well be a Japanese WWII bomber with how many dives this is doing" Criteria
Other than those two, tone in the wood isn't my concern.
Glen, the comments are almost 2000 deep so this will probably get buried, but than you for continuing to help prove that magical fairy dust does not exist and its all in your head.
Here is a really simple thing to consider. If you own a Fender guitar, it's an alder body with a maple neck. All of Fender's guitars and basses are alder and maple with the exception of a very select few artist signature editions (the majority of the signatures are also alder and maple, like Geddy Lee's bass, however a few, like Jim Root's guitars, are mahogany or basswood.
If the luthiers at Fender don't change the tonewood from their cheapest (non-Squire) models all the way up to their most expensive limited editions, then you can make a safe bet that it won't matter for you. Hardware, your electrics, and you playing, are going to have much more of an effect on your sound then the wood ever will. By the time the wood factors into it you'd have to be one of the best players in the world, at which point you can just buy multiple guitars and test them out.
All of the Squire guitars are poplar with maple necks. Squire basses are split, some are poplar, others are Nyatoh, which is a trade name for a set of junk woods from southeast Asia. All bass necks are maple.
I have always though the tone wood debate was such a waste of time, I have never heard any differences that really matter in woods and any notable difference tend to be sustain anyway. Things that affect a guitars tone that I can think of (even including the material of the guitar):
1. Material the guitar is made form
2. Guitar hardware - especially pickups
2a. Pick up height etc
2b. Guitar tones settings
3. Strings
4. Picks used
5. The player
6. Cable quality
7. FX pedals
7a. The order
7b. Their settings
7c. Which brand
8. Amp head
8a. Settings
9. Cab
10. Mic
10a. Mic placement
10b. Mic brand
11. The engineer mixing the final product
12. Maybe even the room it was recorded in?
I’m sure there are more, but I just feel that if there are any differences between tone woods, they’re so, so subtle that when you factor in the myriad of variables, they are soon lost.
So, first of all, tonewood is a complete bullshit and you shouldn't care about it. There's far more important things that affect your tone.
Now what do i think? Guitar A - darker woods, Guitar B - brighter woods (both tonally and visually).
12:08 - B, 12:13 - A, 12:25 - B, 12:35 - A, 12:47 - B, 12:55 - A, 13:00 - B, 13:06 - A, 13:11 - B, 13:15 - A
If i'm correct then i'm mostly lucky than anything else.
Your guess is literally the same as mine. So if you win you’ll obviously win before me. lol
@@shockt9610 And... We were not even close! What a surprise!
@@shockt9610 What a "shock", i might say!
before watching the tone test "Plot twist, Glenn picked from different parts on the string"
after watching "different mic, close enough"
A: Mahogany Body and neck with Ebony fretboard (more low end and fuller, a bit LP'ish tone)
B: Ash Body with Maple neck and fretboard (Brighter and twangier, more strat-esque tone)
12:08 Mahogany
12:16 Ash
12:24 Mahogany
12:34 Ash
12:43 Mahogany
12:48 Ash
12:54 Mahogany
12:59 Ash
13:04 Mahogany
13:12 Ash
E: Forgot to write "body" on B.
Very awesome tests.
There's subtle differences for sure, especially with the cleaner amp soloed up, but in a mix with high gain rhythm guitars there's not much of a difference.
Finally someone did this test right, thanks Glenn!
12:08-12:35 guitar 1(sample B guitar)
12:35-13:08 guitar2(sample A guitar)
Keep up the good vids Glenn!!
Subscribed. Instantly.
Welcome aboard!
You won't be disappointed, брат.
@@SpectreSoundStudios Glen, you have used "No Better Way" and their track "Losing Grip" from 2007 as and example several times. That song has gotten into my head and I am Losing Grip trying to find it. I will pay a premium for it. I cannot get the song out of my head and it really resonate with me! Please point me in the right direction, give me a website or service or any clue. I have searched and Googled everywhere. Anyone??
How about doing a Glen's Best of featuring a number of bands?
Hi Glen. I just wanted to say thanks on putting such a detailed video and to let you know that I've recently changed the strings of two of my 6 basses for a live show so that doesn't make me a real bass player right???? LOL
Starts with the Ash
Switch to mahogony at 12:26
back to Ash at 12:49
back to mahogany at 13:10 to the end
Thanks mate, I've been lookin to pick up my first maple fretboard guitar 😜
Here's my guess:
12:08 - Guitar A - Ash
12:16 - Guitar B - Mahogany
12:25 - Guitar A
12:35 - Guitar B
13:07 - Guitar A
In the start of round 4 I swear I could hear a (really slight, I must say) difference. 20-30 seconds later, I was completely lost too!
To be honest, larger tone differences could be due to slightly harder picking or having the right hand closer/farther to the bridge.
I feel most of your tone comes from your cab and your skills
Skills is playing style, its not tone.
Tone is all in the gear
Playing style and feel is in the skills/hands
@@cederickforsberg5840 There's no difference in tone between a regular note and a palm muted note? A tapped note and a plucked note? It's the same gear, so according to your statement, shouldn't they have the same tone?
@@ScottSweeney That difference is just playing style.
@@cederickforsberg5840 they way you pick your strings will give you tone difference ex hard strum vs soft strum. If I palm mute with a heavy hand, tone is going to be alot different if I palm mute with a soft strum.
@@SoundRayStudio1 What you do with your hands, is all playing style
Tone is the tone controls on the amp, the cab, the mic.
I always thought "tone Woods" where an acoustic guitar thing since it's the body of the guitar projecting the sound as opposed to a set of pick-ups from an electric guitar.
They pretty much are, with the caveat that really shitty, highly microphonic pickups *may* produce a slight difference in tone depending on the wood.
And other lies you say to your wife to justify your new 59 custom shop les paul
This reminds of the approach James Randi used to debunk psychics and other frauds, which is really cool!
Agreed
Alright just to make the fun rollin'...
12:08 - A
12:16 - A->B
12:35 - B->A
12:41 - A->B
12:47 - B->A
Not a fan of tonewoods praise myself. I bet a simple pick swap would make a Way more noticeable difference. That 12:41 swap really stood out to me tho, it's as if one bypassed the c4 on the 100-200hz region on the palm mutes
Great video Glenn! I really appreciate you going through all the effort to put this experiment together and especially love your final thought.
Some sneaky changes you threw into that mix. I don't need another guitar, so I'll hold my totally 100% correct timing and identification to myself so someone else can win. **Eyes shift sideway**
I figured I'd try anyway. But switching guitars at the same time you switch from a palm mute to a chord makes it basically impossible to tell. I think he did that a couple times.
Glenn: the type of wood is irrelevant with its tiny impact on sound
also Glenn: check out the huge difference this 1 plugin makes on my 30 plugin chain on snare mics only
What is your point ?
tone wood in a solid body electric guitar is total BS a myth
Yeah, for the clean clip (not the mic swap one) the guitar b sounded a bit brighter, for the mid gain clip guitar b sounded a touch darker. For the high gain in the mix I couldn't tell the difference. Although I suspect they were swapped for each repeat of the riff guitar a->guitar b->guitar a->guitar b.... but thats just based on where it sounded like there might have been a cut, from the tone I couldn't tell the difference.
I’m sure there’s hundreds of these comments but Jim Lill did an excellent breakdown of where tone came from on an electric guitar, coming up with the result that basically the only thing that changes tone noticeably is the electronics, pickup position in reference to strings, and pickup type.
He later did another video on sustain and concluded it was almost entirely how accurate your finger placement is and how high your action is
I would laugh my ass off if Glenn reveals that he used neither of those guitars and never changed out anything in the mix.
@Aiden Barta i mean if he did I would win one of those beauties right ? xD
In the mix it was utterly impossible, there were miniscule hints, but even those went into the background.
But well, the solo´d tracks only had an ever so slight difference in the high end, that probably only bats can really pinpoint it.
That difference is likely the main flaw in his testing method. He is using 2 different guitars. In order truly test the tonewood myth is to have 1 guitar and switch the body wood with everything els remaining the same
@@hawk6111 Which I think just adds to the point he's trying to make. At a the most basic level, no two guitars are ever going to sound the same. But point being- string gauge, hardware, string age, type of pick you use, and how you play all affect tone in distorted guitars 100x more than wood type ever will.
@@hawk6111 yes either that or make the same two guitars times 10/20/30 to balance out the standard error.
@@zacharyperry8533 I do agree that his conclusion is correct
Do a tone comparison with bridge types next! (ie evertune, floyd,
hardtail, etc). There is a big debate on the internet regarding tone tax
with evertunes and other bridge types that require lots of routing.
Keep on slaying sacred cows.
I honestly don't even care if the EverTune changes the tone a little. It saves you a ridiculous amount of frustration in the studio, and I very strongly believe that a frustrated mood in the studio will be way more audible in the final product (and in a bad way) than any kind of a tonal difference the bridge may or may not cause.
Beautiful guitars . woods components and craftsmanship . ....nice builds
1st clean guitar was mahogany
1st Crunch guitar was the Ash
There were no swaps in the final mix. It was all recorded on the mahogany guitar.