At 1:15 you mistakenly called the Underwood "buffalo Bore" We'll let you slide this time 😜 your viewers do pay attention👍 You did great expelling the myth
I was going to make the same point but I love the simplicity of your remark. Law enforcement agencies used the .38 very effectively and there are a lot of dead bad guys who would attest to the lethality of the .38 (if they could). Carry, Train, Repeat.
@Patrick O'Brien yes you can never have too much back up. Before I was able to carry all the time I walked out of a restaurant into a parking lot where a strong armed robbery was in progress and was forced to fight back with a hand axe that I grabbed from my truck tool box. I really would have loved to have my .38+p at that point but we make due. So yes a pointy stick beats nothing but a .38 beats a pointy stick. A well trained person who practices with a J frame is much better prepared than a keyboard warrior who mocks him.
Keyboard commandos drive me nuts. As someone who was involved in three on-duty shootings w/my issued thirty-eight I called BS on this claim right off. Thanks for showing these “exerts” up Sam, well done!
Old Cop :: You got thug right. I put one down 1 shot 38 spl 158 grain FBI load. . Seen several other shooting with same ammo all are history. Seen 3 shot with 40 s&w all survived. 1 office shot with ball 45. In the hospital 2 day back at work 2 weeks later.. it all shot placement
@@rockjohnson2879 I know of a retired female leo working at her store guy pulls a knife on her to rob the store ,1 shot with the federal 158 +p lswchp doa.
You have the best common sense videos. I have been in law enforcement for 25 years and you have convinced me that 99% of the time a 38 revolver is all you need, which is why I switched to carrying a snub nose when off duty. Keep up the good work.
Thank you. I have another video coming with Gold Dot hollow points in 9mm and .38 Special going through this winter pack, as to test what I know people are meaning to say, but rather than say ".38 Special won't expand the hollow point in heavy clothing" what they say to seem knowledgeable is ".38 Special won't go through heavy clothing". All I can say with my unpublished test, is that the results were near identical between 9mm and .38 Special. Whether those results were both expanded, or both not expanding!
At the range I am frequently chided for shooting .38, It's SO WEAK I am told. After this I am going to direct my critics to this excellent video. Great job Sam, thanks.
.38 Special was used for a long time in areas where it gets quite cold. I doubt the NYPD, Chicago or Detroit would've continued to issue .38s if their officers couldn't nail a bad guy wearing a typical winter getup. I think it's preposterous how weak .38 Special is perceived to be by many shooters, but I mean then again, we still have people going around thinking that a .30 Carbine won't go through a winter jacket either so I think it's safe to say there's a lot of ballistic experts who don't know very much about "how stuff works". I'm pretty sure even a .22LR out of a mouse gun could still get through your typical winter outfit.
Here is the infamous .38 Spl. used by the FBI and NYC Detective Sirpico : Federal 38 Special +P 158 grain Semi Wadcutter Hollow Point, product # 38G " # 38 G " Federal FBI load 38 Special +P 158gr Semi Wad Cutter Hollow Point, known also as the Dallas load and the Chicago load." "Shot from my Ruger GP100 4" barrel revolver thru four layers of denim (per IWBA protocol) into calibrated ordnance gelatin. The round penetrated 19 3/8 and expanded over a half inch. Very light recoiling round. This was the round to have back in the day, it out performed round nose bullets because of its flat shoulder and nose, it would not bounce off bone" m.ruclips.net/video/VODX8qMO-Mo/видео.html
@@GunSam I enjoy just sitting back and laughing at the "know everything" crowd that somehow knows things without knowledge or experience of the things they supposedly know everything about.
The only time I ever saw "heavy winter clothing" cause any lack of penetration was when I was working at Grady Memorial Hospital, in Atlanta. I was a member of what would be later called the "trauma team" (this was in 1969). A man was brought in by ambulance after being shot 6 times by his girlfriend at pretty much point-blank range. We expected to see someone suffering and bleeding badly, but what we saw was a very large fella, about 6' 4", wearing a heavy leather overcoat, and a sweater underneath, and there were, sure 'nuff, 6 tiny bullet holes in the coat, with only two entry wounds in his abdomen. His girlfriend had gotten angry and shot him with her .25 auto and had succeeded in greatly pissing him off! The neighbors had to stop him from killing her with his bare hands, and the police had to escort him to Grady. I have a feeling she might have been somewhat more effective had she had a .38 special! PS: One of our nurses tried to give him a shot for his pain, but he got out of bed and shoved her across the hallway. I was down the hallway and started to run to tackle him, but one of our orderlies beat me to it by wanging him on the back of the head with one of those old stainless steel bedpans! Justice!
You based your judgement based on no fact what happened between them when the female shot him. Self defense case or case of insane jealous woman? Why would someone what pain meds if they are asking for them.
It was quite enlightening to see Paul Harrell shoot a 637 (642?) with a 158 grain lead round and have it way over-penetrate the meat target and get through plenty of fleece. That meat target had pork ribs on the front and the back. Thanks for the video and the work involved in it. Take care and have a great weekend.
Thanks for watching. Biggest thing for double action is getting your trigger finger on the first joint so you have enough leverage to keep it from shaking.
Slow is smooth. Smooth is fast. It had been so long since I had gone the range that the rangemaster had to remind me of that, last Saturday. I got a 1.5” group, off hand, at 25 yards with hand loads, once I focused on that.
The steel J frame is vastly underappreciated. I carried a 36 as backup for years (Uncle Mike's boot grips in ankle holster, but for belt carry you could use larger grips). It was hard on the bluing, so my buddy parkerized it. I eventually got a stainless and alloy Taurus hammerless (same as S&W 642), because i wanted a hammerless. I still shoot the 36 and would not hesitate to carry it.
Amazing how stupid people are ain't it? Theres a good reason my grandmother keeps a chiefs special for hone defense, I'd say this guy demonstrated that reason just fine.
Thanks for watching. I got exactly what I had suspected, however I was worried the Critical Defense was going to stop in jug 1, but was pleased that it did nearly as good with no heavy clothing tests.
I really don't get the whole 'won't shoot through winter clothing' nonsense. Even a .22 or .25 pocket pistol will shoot through winter clothing. Trust me.
@Travis Thacker I have never heard of or encountered a story in which a .38/200 (the British load) or a Super Police 200gr .38 Special load, a .38 S&W (aka .38 "Regular"), including the 200gr American load, or a .38 Long Colt was stopped by outer clothing. And I think Sam has demonstrated plenty of soft lead projectiles penetrating denim, baloney and fiberboard, even in such low powered loads as a .32 S&W (Short), let alone the rounds you mentioned (Sam has shot a number of 200gr .38 Special loads through the Jug box, qv.). Can you share some sources for those stories?
Trashcan Possum - I can't really prove it, but I think that the "can't make it through winter clothing" myth got started in Korea. We learned there that extreme cold weather reduces the effectiveness of the powders. My uncle told me that he and his troops carried their 30 carbine mags inside their clothing. Anyway, what I want to mention is that this same uncle told me that the 9mm was better than our own 45. When I questioned him about that he told me that the North Korean soldiers carried very little equipment for warmth because they wore it all. He said that 3 heavy quilted coats could slow down the 45 enough that it would just wound not kill, but the 9mm would give a killing wound because it went through all that quilting better. Anyway, I always figured the winter clothing myth got started there - extreme cold and several layers of very heavy quilting.
@Travis Thacker I'd be very interested if you could point me to a video showing the .38 /200, .38 S&W or .38 Long Colt, or for that matter, the .36 cap and ball round, failing to penetrate clothing. Rimfires will break ribs when struck, and a medium powered air rifle will shoot clean through a (full) soup can. So I'd like to see a video of a .38 anything failing to shoot through clothing, even multiple layers. Also, even dead soft lead is a whole lot denser than bone. Given any velocity, a .38 projectile will break bones.
Thank you! I did a similar comparison many years ago for some local cops who were concerned about whether their old .38's had sufficient penetration for our northern Ontario winter apparel norms. We stacked one EACH leather jacket, polyester quilting-lined heavy canvas work coat, and down-filled parka (all layered over one another) with a heavy wool military-type sweater and three layers of cotton T-shirt fabric over our wet newspaper test media... FAR beyond any forseeable worst case scenario. Shooting a standard police-issue S&W HB M-10 revolver with issued standard-pressure 158 gr. lead SWC duty loads, we still managed 3.5" to 5" penetration in the paper with all but one of the six rounds fired. (Wet newspaper is considerably denser than today's ballistic gelatin, or water bottles.) That said, other testing we did actually DID find that load somewhat ineffective against HARD cover such as angled auto windshield glass, where heavier or faster pistol rounds (we tested 9mm and .45 ACP ball ammo, as well as .357 Mag. SJSP's) WOULD penetrate.
I was at a 25 yd indoor range shooting 38spl target loads in my 6" 357. At the end I switched to full power. I don't miss with that gun. One aimed shot is all it takes.
That round was used just to illustrate a point. It's a .38 Special +P, it's at or under 20,000 PSI, it's under SAAMI. It's a .38 Special lol. It's anemic!
@@benjimenfranklin7650 I'm not a bruin expert, but I think Alaskan Ballistics shot a bear skull (outside of the bear) and it turned out not to be all that thick. That said, if I've got a bear attacking me, lining up a nice kill shot won't be on my mind. Extreme panic is more likely.
I believe .38 Special is more than adequate. My favorite revolver round is Remington 125 grain SJHP in 38+P and 357 Magnum. Plentiful in stores and reasonably priced.
Yes that is good ammo. It doesn't expand quite as much as some (in 38), but it will do the job. I shoot it quite a bit for practice ammo. Go Big Green!
Good video. Since I carry the +P Critical Defense, I feel pretty good about it. If the standard pressure makes it, there's no doubt about the +P (not that I was doubting anyway).
When the 38 special was designed to defeat the Morro warriors in 1898 it was considered a magnum round. Those who say the round is anemic has no idea what they're talking about. Sure there were some reports by police officers of the round sometimes skipping off windshields, but they were using soft lead bullets at the time. The modern 38 special will put you into your final resting place quicker than you can blink.
Nice job. I'm sure it took every ounce of self control you could muster up to keep from laughing too hard. Anybody with any experience at all with the .38 Special round I'm sure is still chuckling.
They said the same thing about .30 Carbine, even with the ammo malfunction being proven in the Chosin Reservoir people still tell me my modern production, 110gr, 2,000fps ammo cant go through a thick jacket.
Great video!! People that make comments like .38 isn’t powerful enough or .38 doesn’t penetrate enough to hit vital organs usually haven’t been around .38’s and know nothing about the history of the .38’s. The .38 has fill many graves and will continue to protect homes. Great video!!!!
The .38 Special round that caused a great deal of unhappiness in various lawmen in the '50s through the '70s was the 158 grain RNL 'disservice' round. As I recall MV was advertised at a whopping 750 fps. That loading is likely responsible for the "...38 is a wienie ..." legend. Simply changing the bullet to a flat or semi flat fronted configuration and upping the MV to 800 fps or more makes a lot of difference.
Most people don't understand bullet capability. I once shot a ".22LR CCI Stinger" through a 2x4, to prove a point. Granted it was a newer 2x4, not an aged/hardened one. But it still went, clean through.
The. 38 spl standard 158gr. Lead round nose, was the standard police load for over one hundred years for a reason. It was powerful enough to be effective and had low recoil ,and was very accurate!
Holy hell! The cropping on the top down angle of the jugs was so good I thought you were breaking the laws of physics there for a moment when you reached for the first one!
I don’t know why and where a lot of people get the idea that the 38 special is an anemic or not powerful enough caliber for self defense. Down where I come from (do to the military caliber restrictions ) the 38 special is a very popular caliber and boy I tell you, it has dispatched a lot of bad guys to the other world. Good video as always Gun Sam.
I've been shooting, testing, reloading a long time and try not to pay attention to arm chair experts . i only care to listen people who like myself who do it and experience what there talking about. i greatly enjoy you and the outher show something and tools ,i don't remember sadly, he wares the American flag wide brim hat. i have great confidence in you two. Papa wishing you well 😊
I would hate to bet my life on it. Them wad-cutters have a prevalence for going through things that you wouldn't think they would. And who knows they could be + p ammo as well.
The Underwood round is a +P. I would like to repeat this test with more common ammo, possibly a high end .38+P that's more mainstream VS a mainstream popular 9mm round, just to see what we get. I do have Critical Defense 9mm which I can run through the 4" or 3" barrel and the +P version of this .38 Special round. I have others too, I just have to decide on which ones.
@@benjimenfranklin7650 Actually with the Critical Defense I can make the .38 Special faster if I unfairly tweaked the test, in the 3" barrel the 9mm would get about 1,050 FPS/281 FPE and on a good day in the 4" barrel the .38+P version will do 1,130 FPS/312 FPE. However there's no way I will do that lol. I see people do it the other way around to make the 9mm have more power than anything else, but I won't do it for the .38 Special lol. Reminds me of being a kid where the Sega Genesis had "blast processing" and was 16 bit and "as good" as the Super Nintendo 16 bit, but in reality the Super Nintendo was way more powerful lol.
thanks for showing this, alot of people think a 22lr is the same as a pellet gun, while weight in grains really matters it takes more force to move that 35-40 grains 800fps rather than 5-10 grains, so these 100-158 grain 38 special are no joke...its as simple as someone throwing a small pebble and a big rock at the exact same speed...people dont think. any gun that is made to shoot from 90 to 200 grains at exceptional muzzle energy is more than enough for me.
SMH.... Internet experts love to repeat urban legends without ANY first hand experience.... and probably never shot a .38 SPL... I have on me right now a Taurus 856UL with Fedreral HST +P 130gr
The HST are alright rounds and definitely easy to shoot and expand, but I have no idea how well they would do on a test like this. Might be more affected than smaller nose .38 Special rounds.
" Yeah but !!!!! " What if there is a Polar Bear between you and your attacker ? Will the 38 Special penetrate thru the bear and (go 12-18 inches of gelatin) into the attacker wearing a winter coat ? What if a moose walks in front of the bear ?
I think if you got bears and moose in your scenario, I think you don't have to worry about that guy with the pistol. Just throw a hot dog or burger at him and leave.
LIVIN CINCY : was a guide story in Alaska fishing guide with a couple. Brown bear became hostile.. it took several round of of buffalo bore hard cast but he put him down
As far as my opinion goes on the subject, there really is no cartridge as versatile and useful as the 38Spl. A plain old lswc will penetrate very well. I have done tests using deer skull and water jugs to see how they do thru bone, and even loaded to a low velocity of 650 fps from a snub nose gives great penetration. My main carry load in the snub is a 110 grain XTP driven to what is essentially the old Treasury Load, a +p+ load giving about 1050 fps from the snub j frame. Great video! I think the 38 spl, and revolvers in general deserve more attention.
A very good video, good information, and I hope the detractors will write back to comment what they think now. For the next clothing penetration test, please consider using your LCR in .32 ACP to test FMJ and JHP penetration.
@@GunSam Only if it is something you would like to do. I know I have more confidence in the .32 ACP than a lot of people and it has not been disproven as a viable cartridge to me so far. I have had five .32 ACP pistols, one was a derringer, I think they are useful in some situations. I don't have one now. I recently reacquired my old Ruger LCR .38 Special since my wife's arthritis and fibromyalgia has gotten so bad she felt she could not use it properly. Thank you for the very useful information we gain from your testing. I do not have a place to shoot. I value your expertise and opinions.
The Flex Tip in the Critical Defense bullet is designed specifically to significantly increase the chance of expansion and prevent clogging. If a JHP bullet doesn't expand, it doesn't transfer enough (or any) energy. You could drop a wolf and/or coyote with a .38 Special. I'd go with +P, yes, there's more recoil, but it hits harder and moves faster. If a bad guy/attacker is hopped up on whatever, +P increases the chance of stopping the threat.
I carry a Ruger SP101 and almost always use .38 special +p. When I'm hiking or working in the woods I load .357 magnum. When I'm loaded with .38, the winter clad don't concern me.
Great gun. I've shot both 357 and 38 special with that gun and it is more accurate and controlable when shooting 38 special. The 357 has some kick for sure.
The SWC 38 spl+p from Underwood is just as powerful as a regular 357 mag like magthech jsp or something similar. Awesome round if you need the best penetration in a 38 spl. Nice vid by the way.
For winter 148 grain wadcutters. Hollow points are most likely not going to expand. At least the wadcutter will cut through everything and will have great penetration.
As someone who is in the gun industry, I've heard claims along these lines countless times. Usually referring to the .22 LR, .25 ACP, .32 S &W, .32 ACP or .32 S&W Long. Typically it goes something like, "That round won't shoot through one side of a coffee can.", or something like that. Then there are claims of bullets bouncing off trees, boards, other objects, people, etc. I've often wondered if these were pure fabrication, or perhaps the results of using ammunition that was very old and had been contaminated by oil or moisture. That could actually account for these strange stories. People carrying the same ammunition in a gun for many years, even decades, is surprisingly common. Even the little .22 Short will normally penetrate through far more common fabric than any human would ordinarily wear under various weather conditions which naturally occur on Earth. This is certain.
Excellent vid, commentary and knowledge. One time I fired some 110 gr +p Critical Defense into a tree at 25 yards (in the country of course 😁) and it TORE into that tree like a hot knife through butter. I said to myself that the human body isn't that hard, and definitely not enough clothing would stop that. Love your videos man. Thx again. 👊🏽😊
Thank you. I once shot a raccoon from close range with the 110 gr+P Hornady Critical Defense, in a snub nose. Body shot, it dropped and didn't even kick or wiggle.
@@GunSam Impressive. 🤔😁 Btw....I know this MAY be a little off topic. I can't quite remember if I even asked you this before, or if you have a video pertaining to the question, but what's your take on carrying a 22 Magnum LCR for self defense ? I know that any bullet can be lethal, but...just wanted to know. Thx again. 👊🏼😊
@@erich.2550 Probably in a regular civilian situation where a revolver is pulled, it would probably work as well as anything else for deterring an attack with just showing it, and or landing a hit of anything would probably be enough to make them stop what they are doing. Now when we get into non psychological stopping energy where the central nervous system must be hit, a .22 Mag might be not as useful as something larger.
Thanks! I do plan more soon. I have some Buffalo Bore 100 gr .327 and Buffalo Bore 100 gr .32 H&R mag in an online cart. There is also a new Critical Defense .327 Mag but it hasn't reached retailers yet. When it does it's mine!
I'm going to come up with a new comment for this one. Never mind the dead bear on the other end of your Jug-Or-Not. How many 9x19mm standard defense loads make over 500 ft-lbs of energy? I'm talking SAAMI spec loads here. I've got a rather nice round number in mind, but I'm not an ammunition expert. We can be fair and assume a 4" service barrel rather than a 3" micro-9 barrel. 38 Spl a wimpy cartridge? Apparently not.
I will speculate that the highest end 9mm+P load under SAAMI specs will produce in a 4.9" Beretta, as much as 450 ft lbs energy but that's the top limit.
The tiny nines like ruger lcp are awesome, but they have functionality very similar to a double action revolver. The difference is if I carry a 357 mag and load it with low pressure 357, I get tolerable recoil, similar velocity as a 9mm, but with a bullet ranging from 125 grain to 200 grain. Watch a Paul Harrell video. There is A LOT more to consider than a lot of people do. Above all, shot placement is really important. I was very surprised to find that after lots of practice with my revolver, I can pick up an lcp and immediately hit better groups than I did after 500 rounds of practice with my full size 9mm.
I would like to applaud and congratulate you for all the amazing tests and videos you provide for us. I believe that you are single-handedly are responsible for keeping the 38 Special rounds relevant, as well as showcasing exactly how deadly and efficient this rounds can really be. I personally am a big fan of .38 s. One of my EDC is a Ruger lcrx .38 s +p. It weighs less than 16 oz fully loaded, it's pretty much disappears on my body and is enough to bulwark most if not every, every day complication forthcoming. But one thing I would like to know. Why are there no 38 special semi-automatics?. Thank you for any response
Thank you. I remember making this video, it was a lot of fun. But sometimes people accuse me of being drunk because my sarcastic voice sounds like that lol.
@@GunSam Even though I have two 357 Magnum revolvers, one with a 2.5" barrel, the other with a 4" barrel I tend to stick with the dependable old 38 Special. Again, you've dispelled myths from your detractors.
I've carried a 4" .38 special revolver for over 40 years. Sometimes I'll take a high capacity 9, my trusty .45 1911, or desert eagle .44 mag, but you just can't beat the low recoil and accuracy of the .38
Thank you. I do plan another heavy winter clothing test with high end, but not over normal range energy with 9mm VS .38 Special. I plan to use my Underwood ammo that uses the Gold Dot bullets. The 9mm 124 gr and I got 1,207 FPS in the 4" and the .38 Special 125 gr and I got 1,071 FPS in the 4". The .38 has a larger hollow cavity than the 9mm so i'm curious if that will be a pro or a con.
I carry the same Taurus 605 as my backup on-duty and off duty carry. It eats and spits 38spl and 357mag with great accuracy and I NEVER feel undergunned with it.
One time "gunblastdotcom" had a comment that 12 gauge bird shot wouldn't go through a pizza box. I like it when someone says bird shot is for birds. A 12 gauge bird shot shell has enough energy to kill hundreds of birds.
Still catching up on many of your vids and I like 'em all. Here's a couple points on this one. (#1) While you have a thick pad of material, it's fairly soft stuff (poly insulation, fleece..etc) OTH...seems to me that in heavy weather, a baddie would be wearing something like your heavy canvas outer jacket over other stuff or maybe a heavy "pea coat" or somesuch . I don't know if that would matter that much but it's probably more realistic. (#2) The 38 spl detractors probably refer to the older (and anemic) 160 ish RNL ammo which would not do as well as the more modern stuff. Gotta remember that these "OWT" mostly are repeated for decades with no one to dispute them. That UW 158 gr is easily comparable to at least half of the .357 stuff marketed today.
Alaskan State Troopers carried 38 Speacials for many decades. They had plenty of OIS with perps in very heavy insulated coveralls topped with very heavy winter coats until they went with the Glock model 22 40 caliber.
Have you considered testing both the Buffalo Bore standard pressure .38 Special wadcutters and the Underwood standard pressure .38 Special wadcutters head to head from snubbies? The Buffalo Bore is $30 and the Underwood is $14 per 20. With that price difference is be interested in seeing how different these two would be. Buffalo Bore claims 850 or so fps from a 2" barrel and Underwood claims around 800 fps from a 4" barrel. Let me know if I could help sponsor a test with both of these in the Jug-or-not box. Really appreciate all your extensive testing.
I think I read that it was car doors and stuff like that, that police needed a more penetrating round than the 38 back in the day. Not clothing. Besides bullet advancement has improved most rounds too. Thank you for the great video. 😁👍
What I have seen in testing is that 9mm and .38 Special do the same damage to a soft target, but the 9mm is better if there's a hard barrier. To a certain degree energy is meaningless at a soft target, but energy is very crucial for hard barrier penetration.
When I was a kid In the North End of Kansas City I saw a guy shoot another guy with a .38 Special, it was late fall and the guy that got shot was wearing a coat, the bullets not only went clean through him they also went through the door he was standing in front of and wound up buried in the livingroom wall, So winter clothing! Anyone who says that doesn't know what they're talkin about.
Well done Sam. The internet harbors some fantastic thoughts by less than credible people. If I could, I'd never bother with anything but the 38 spl. But I don't live as well as God. He can do just fine with his 38 snub! Best regards sir!
We know what will happen. It's never wrong to educate the public. So good on you. Sometimes the internet intelligentsia goes off the rails! Meanwhile, snow is set here! lowest has been windchill of minus 4F! Best time of the year!
I'll stick with 357 magnum, but that was fairly impressive. One thing that might make a 38 inadequate is a fragmenting round. Glaser Blue, for example, aren't really great at penetrating past 4", according to luckygunner.
At 1:15 you mistakenly called the Underwood "buffalo Bore" We'll let you slide this time 😜 your viewers do pay attention👍 You did great expelling the myth
Haha, I didn't notice. I don't know why I would say Buffalo Bore.
@@GunSam Same genre. Both mean business.
@Strange Highways Yes!!!
@Strange Highways Bunderwood Bore will be the generic name for these
You wrote expelling instead of dispelling. Unforgivable! 😠
The .38 special. Filling coffins for 121 years. And counting......
AB SOUL UTELY
I was going to make the same point but I love the simplicity of your remark.
Law enforcement agencies used the .38 very effectively and there are a lot of dead bad guys who would attest to the lethality of the .38 (if they could).
Carry, Train, Repeat.
@Patrick O'Brien yes you can never have too much back up.
Before I was able to carry all the time I walked out of a restaurant into a parking lot where a strong armed robbery was in progress and was forced to fight back with a hand axe that I grabbed from my truck tool box.
I really would have loved to have my .38+p at that point but we make due. So yes a pointy stick beats nothing but a .38 beats a pointy stick.
A well trained person who practices with a J frame is much better prepared than a keyboard warrior who mocks him.
@Patrick O'Brien Thank you so much for enlightening us and sharing your words of wisdom.
See the irony here ?.
Awesome to here u guys comments because my wife and twin daughters carrie all 38 stubbies
As you proved those remarks about 38 spl. penetration or lack thereof is a bunch of " bologna ". Thanks for the video.
Thanks lol
D'oh!
The guy that said the 38 was a Mouse round, is probably the SAME GUY that thinks the Kardashians are beautiful and have class.
😆
A bullet stay a bullet... 22lr can be mortal too.
Are the Kardashians aliens from Star Trek?!
Hey, they're beautiful and have Ass. Lmbo 🤣😂
Clint Eastwood said it’ll bounce off car windshields.
Keyboard commandos drive me nuts. As someone who was involved in three on-duty shootings w/my issued thirty-eight I called BS on this claim right off. Thanks for showing these “exerts” up Sam, well done!
Thanks!
Old Cop :: You got thug right. I put one down 1 shot 38 spl 158 grain FBI load. . Seen several other shooting with same ammo all are history. Seen 3 shot with 40 s&w all survived. 1 office shot with ball 45. In the hospital 2 day back at work 2 weeks later.. it all shot placement
rock Johnson Experience has taught me the .38 works, but real “stopping power” is a myth.
@@rockjohnson2879 I know of a retired female leo working at her store guy pulls a knife on her to rob the store ,1 shot with the federal 158 +p lswchp doa.
You have the best common sense videos. I have been in law enforcement for 25 years and you have convinced me that 99% of the time a 38 revolver is all you need, which is why I switched to carrying a snub nose when off duty. Keep up the good work.
Thank you. I have another video coming with Gold Dot hollow points in 9mm and .38 Special going through this winter pack, as to test what I know people are meaning to say, but rather than say ".38 Special won't expand the hollow point in heavy clothing" what they say to seem knowledgeable is ".38 Special won't go through heavy clothing". All I can say with my unpublished test, is that the results were near identical between 9mm and .38 Special. Whether those results were both expanded, or both not expanding!
At the range I am frequently chided for shooting .38, It's SO WEAK I am told. After this I am going to direct my critics to this excellent video. Great job Sam, thanks.
Thanks!
If .38 Special is weak, why has it been around for over 100 years, why did Law Enforcement carry/use it for 80-90 years, etc?
.38 Special was used for a long time in areas where it gets quite cold. I doubt the NYPD, Chicago or Detroit would've continued to issue .38s if their officers couldn't nail a bad guy wearing a typical winter getup. I think it's preposterous how weak .38 Special is perceived to be by many shooters, but I mean then again, we still have people going around thinking that a .30 Carbine won't go through a winter jacket either so I think it's safe to say there's a lot of ballistic experts who don't know very much about "how stuff works". I'm pretty sure even a .22LR out of a mouse gun could still get through your typical winter outfit.
Yes, but my friend and I would joke about how a leather coat would stop a .25 auto lol. Probably go through.
I'm pretty sure .30 Carbine will take Whitetail Deer.
.25acp does about 10-11" through BG after 2 layers of denim. ruclips.net/video/gHQZH-oAvFo/видео.html
Sadly, officers carry what the administration says to carry. Far too many pay more attention to loud uphappy know nothings than to reality.
Here is the infamous .38 Spl. used by the FBI and NYC Detective Sirpico :
Federal 38 Special +P 158 grain Semi Wadcutter Hollow Point, product # 38G
" # 38 G "
Federal FBI load 38 Special +P 158gr Semi Wad Cutter Hollow Point, known also as the Dallas load and the Chicago load."
"Shot from my Ruger GP100 4" barrel revolver thru four layers of denim (per IWBA protocol) into calibrated ordnance gelatin. The round penetrated 19 3/8 and expanded over a half inch. Very light recoiling round. This was the round to have back in the day, it out performed round nose bullets because of its flat shoulder and nose, it would not bounce off bone"
m.ruclips.net/video/VODX8qMO-Mo/видео.html
And I forgot to mention, thank you to the suppliers of the ammunition. Ken S for the Critical Defense and Marc C for the Underwood hard cast.
Thanks Ken and Marc
I 2nd the notion. Thank you!!!☯️🎩♠️🏁
"Some people" don't know anything about ammunition and should keep their mouths shut.
I think the problem is, that some people in high places say this stuff, and their followers just repeat it.
There's a lot of that going around
@@GunSam I enjoy just sitting back and laughing at the "know everything" crowd that somehow knows things without knowledge or experience of the things they supposedly know everything about.
those most likely are old .45 hardball carriers that have a hard time adapting!
@@babyblue8214 more likely young kids with no knowledge or experience just wanting to sound relevant.
The only time I ever saw "heavy winter clothing" cause any lack of penetration was when I was working at Grady Memorial Hospital, in Atlanta. I was a member of what would be later called the "trauma team" (this was in 1969). A man was brought in by ambulance after being shot 6 times by his girlfriend at pretty much point-blank range. We expected to see someone suffering and bleeding badly, but what we saw was a very large fella, about 6' 4", wearing a heavy leather overcoat, and a sweater underneath, and there were, sure 'nuff, 6 tiny bullet holes in the coat, with only two entry wounds in his abdomen. His girlfriend had gotten angry and shot him with her .25 auto and had succeeded in greatly pissing him off! The neighbors had to stop him from killing her with his bare hands, and the police had to escort him to Grady. I have a feeling she might have been somewhat more effective had she had a .38 special! PS: One of our nurses tried to give him a shot for his pain, but he got out of bed and shoved her across the hallway. I was down the hallway and started to run to tackle him, but one of our orderlies beat me to it by wanging him on the back of the head with one of those old stainless steel bedpans! Justice!
I think it was Jeff Cooper who warned not to shoot anyone with a 25 because they might find out and get mad.
Great story!
Incredible tale
You based your judgement based on no fact what happened between them when the female shot him.
Self defense case or case of insane jealous woman?
Why would someone what pain meds if they are asking for them.
It was quite enlightening to see Paul Harrell shoot a 637 (642?) with a 158 grain lead round and have it way over-penetrate the meat target and get through plenty of fleece. That meat target had pork ribs on the front and the back. Thanks for the video and the work involved in it. Take care and have a great weekend.
Thank you. I vaguely remember his video. I have never tested a 158 gr LRN but should sometime.
@@GunSam It's going to penetrate...a lot.
Sam Sam Gun Sam.....but it wasn't new and improved high tech fleece.....
Old tech!
thats the back stop
Wow...that Underwood +P ammo approaches the velocity of low end 357 magnum! Those are some very powerful rounds!
Just bought my s&w 36-7🇵🇱👋🇺🇸Super accurate in single action, must learn double action anyway...Hugs from Warsaw, Poland.
Thanks for watching. Biggest thing for double action is getting your trigger finger on the first joint so you have enough leverage to keep it from shaking.
Slow is smooth. Smooth is fast.
It had been so long since I had gone the range that the rangemaster had to remind me of that, last Saturday.
I got a 1.5” group, off hand, at 25 yards with hand loads, once I focused on that.
The steel J frame is vastly underappreciated. I carried a 36 as backup for years (Uncle Mike's boot grips in ankle holster, but for belt carry you could use larger grips). It was hard on the bluing, so my buddy parkerized it. I eventually got a stainless and alloy Taurus hammerless (same as S&W 642), because i wanted a hammerless. I still shoot the 36 and would not hesitate to carry it.
@@Baurakale777 Greg Newton of Lionquest Fitness also says that. Good words to be certain.
As suspected, 38 special takes care of business. Great video. Thanks👍!
Thanks!
BTO knows!
That wadcutter is a BEAST!!
It's not bad!
Same design worked pretty well on native America's buffalo herds with the .45-70.
It's a LSWC, true LWC are totally flat.
That would be the typical difference between a semi-wadcutter and a wadcutter.
That underwood cartridge is approaching .357 magnum ballistics. Definitely a hot load.
Ignorance can get you killed, even with alot of winter clothing!☠
True dat
Amazing how stupid people are ain't it? Theres a good reason my grandmother keeps a chiefs special for hone defense, I'd say this guy demonstrated that reason just fine.
It didn't help the Russians against the Finns. 54R cut then like butter and the round didnt do it the Winter Cold did.
Thanks Sam!
Didn’t surprise me but it did make me grin.
Thanks for watching. I got exactly what I had suspected, however I was worried the Critical Defense was going to stop in jug 1, but was pleased that it did nearly as good with no heavy clothing tests.
I really don't get the whole 'won't shoot through winter clothing' nonsense. Even a .22 or .25 pocket pistol will shoot through winter clothing. Trust me.
And even better, since it's a slender projectile. It's sorta why the FN 5.7x28 stuff works so well.
And many pellet guns too!
@Travis Thacker I have never heard of or encountered a story in which a .38/200 (the British load) or a Super Police 200gr .38 Special load, a .38 S&W (aka .38 "Regular"), including the 200gr American load, or a .38 Long Colt was stopped by outer clothing. And I think Sam has demonstrated plenty of soft lead projectiles penetrating denim, baloney and fiberboard, even in such low powered loads as a .32 S&W (Short), let alone the rounds you mentioned (Sam has shot a number of 200gr .38 Special loads through the Jug box, qv.).
Can you share some sources for those stories?
Trashcan Possum - I can't really prove it, but I think that the "can't make it through winter clothing" myth got started in Korea. We learned there that extreme cold weather reduces the effectiveness of the powders. My uncle told me that he and his troops carried their 30 carbine mags inside their clothing. Anyway, what I want to mention is that this same uncle told me that the 9mm was better than our own 45. When I questioned him about that he told me that the North Korean soldiers carried very little equipment for warmth because they wore it all. He said that 3 heavy quilted coats could slow down the 45 enough that it would just wound not kill, but the 9mm would give a killing wound because it went through all that quilting better.
Anyway, I always figured the winter clothing myth got started there - extreme cold and several layers of very heavy quilting.
@Travis Thacker I'd be very interested if you could point me to a video showing the .38 /200, .38 S&W or .38 Long Colt, or for that matter, the .36 cap and ball round, failing to penetrate clothing. Rimfires will break ribs when struck, and a medium powered air rifle will shoot clean through a (full) soup can. So I'd like to see a video of a .38 anything failing to shoot through clothing, even multiple layers.
Also, even dead soft lead is a whole lot denser than bone. Given any velocity, a .38 projectile will break bones.
Thank you! I did a similar comparison many years ago for some local cops who were concerned about whether their old .38's had sufficient penetration for our northern Ontario winter apparel norms. We stacked one EACH leather jacket, polyester quilting-lined heavy canvas work coat, and down-filled parka (all layered over one another) with a heavy wool military-type sweater and three layers of cotton T-shirt fabric over our wet newspaper test media... FAR beyond any forseeable worst case scenario. Shooting a standard police-issue S&W HB M-10 revolver with issued standard-pressure 158 gr. lead SWC duty loads, we still managed 3.5" to 5" penetration in the paper with all but one of the six rounds fired. (Wet newspaper is considerably denser than today's ballistic gelatin, or water bottles.)
That said, other testing we did actually DID find that load somewhat ineffective against HARD cover such as angled auto windshield glass, where heavier or faster pistol rounds (we tested 9mm and .45 ACP ball ammo, as well as .357 Mag. SJSP's) WOULD penetrate.
I was at a 25 yd indoor range shooting 38spl target loads in my 6" 357. At the end I switched to full power. I don't miss with that gun. One aimed shot is all it takes.
Wow that was great. I knew it was gonna go through but with the +p you could get the guy behind him too !
That round was used just to illustrate a point. It's a .38 Special +P, it's at or under 20,000 PSI, it's under SAAMI. It's a .38 Special lol. It's anemic!
@@GunSam
Well if it is anemic I sure don't want to be in it's way.
@@benjimenfranklin7650 I think it will take down a bear. Especially if you got a lucky head shot.
@@benjimenfranklin7650 I'm not a bruin expert, but I think Alaskan Ballistics shot a bear skull (outside of the bear) and it turned out not to be all that thick. That said, if I've got a bear attacking me, lining up a nice kill shot won't be on my mind. Extreme panic is more likely.
@@Fudmottin
You shoot a bear in the head with a 38 and miss a little bit and you'll be lunch.
www.blackbearheaven.com/best-kill-shot-black-bear.htm
I believe .38 Special is more than adequate. My favorite revolver round is Remington 125 grain SJHP in 38+P and 357 Magnum. Plentiful in stores and reasonably priced.
I use the same stuff👍
Yes that is good ammo. It doesn't expand quite as much as some (in 38), but it will do the job. I shoot it quite a bit for practice ammo. Go Big Green!
Great stuff!
Hits hard as hell😊
Good video. Since I carry the +P Critical Defense, I feel pretty good about it. If the standard pressure makes it, there's no doubt about the +P (not that I was doubting anyway).
The +p version averages at least 100 fps more than the standard pressure in the snub nose.
When the 38 special was designed to defeat the Morro warriors in 1898 it was considered a magnum round. Those who say the round is anemic has no idea what they're talking about. Sure there were some reports by police officers of the round sometimes skipping off windshields, but they were using soft lead bullets at the time. The modern 38 special will put you into your final resting place quicker than you can blink.
I use the same reference. I tell people that when the .38 Special came out, the term "Magnum" was yet to be coined, so Special means magnum.
I carry 38 special and I have never felt under powered. 158 grains at about 800 FPS from a 2” barrel. Works for me.
That was awesome. I love how you went above and beyond the winter clothing stack.
Outstanding demonstration. Throughly enjoyable!
Thanks!
Nice job. I'm sure it took every ounce of self control you could muster up to keep from laughing too hard. Anybody with any experience at all with the .38 Special round I'm sure is still chuckling.
Covid-19:" I wiping out a lot of people"
.38 special over the years:" Hold my beer."
The 38 special is lethal and has the history to back it up. Great video!
I just got this little s&w airweight to the ridicule of some fellas i know. I'm looking for compact with results not flashy. Great video. Subscribed!
They said the same thing about .30 Carbine, even with the ammo malfunction being proven in the Chosin Reservoir people still tell me my modern production, 110gr, 2,000fps ammo cant go through a thick jacket.
Great video!! People that make comments like .38 isn’t powerful enough or .38 doesn’t penetrate enough to hit vital organs usually haven’t been around .38’s and know nothing about the history of the .38’s. The .38 has fill many graves and will continue to protect homes. Great video!!!!
Thanks!
I think their game console says (not enough power)or something like that .
What!?! It went through clothes...winter clothes!? Craziness. Thanks for posting. Some people believe everything they hear.
The person with the experience is rarely at the mercy of the person with the argument. 👍🏼
The .38 Special round that caused a great deal of unhappiness in various lawmen in the '50s through the '70s was the 158 grain RNL 'disservice' round. As I recall MV was advertised at a whopping 750 fps. That loading is likely responsible for the "...38 is a wienie ..." legend. Simply changing the bullet to a flat or semi flat fronted configuration and upping the MV to 800 fps or more makes a lot of difference.
Thanks for proving this old round is still a good option.
Most people don't understand bullet capability. I once shot a ".22LR CCI Stinger"
through a 2x4, to prove a point. Granted it was a newer 2x4, not an aged/hardened one.
But it still went, clean through.
When blank hits the fan I'll take either one.
I've just got those regular old Hornady 110 grain rounds. Nice to know that they'll get the job done.
I carry a Ruger LCRx in .38 special with a 3 inch barrel using Buffalo Bore 158 grain soft lead SWCHP +p.
AKA The FBI Load.
Well done! Once again your testing triumphs over myths. Oh, and thanks for not harming any flannel in this test. ;-)
Thanks. But I do have old flannel I might use next test!
I carry a j-frame in 38 sometimes and never felt underpowered, although you have about convinced me to go for the 327mag.
Do it!
Such dry, subtle sarcasm. 😄. Awesome demo, as usual.
Thanks!
Very nice work...you 'is' the '38 Man'!
Thanks!
The. 38 spl standard 158gr. Lead round nose, was the standard police load for over one hundred years for a reason. It was powerful enough to be effective and had low recoil ,and was very accurate!
Holy hell! The cropping on the top down angle of the jugs was so good I thought you were breaking the laws of physics there for a moment when you reached for the first one!
I don’t know why and where a lot of people get the idea that the 38 special is an anemic or not powerful enough caliber for self defense. Down where I come from (do to the military caliber restrictions ) the 38 special is a very popular caliber and boy I tell you, it has dispatched a lot of bad guys to the other world. Good video as always Gun Sam.
Thanks. My latest video has a Buffalo Bore .38 Special that is more powerful than most 9mm ammo and uses a Hornady XTP.
Thank you Sam. The doubters can be pretty hard headed.
I've been shooting, testing, reloading a long time and try not to pay attention to arm chair experts . i only care to listen people who like myself who do it and experience what there talking about. i greatly enjoy you and the outher show something and tools ,i don't remember sadly, he wares the American flag wide brim hat. i have great confidence in you two. Papa wishing you well 😊
So no keyboard commandos volunteered to wear the winter clothing and get shot? Weird. Thanks Sam for dispelling these myths 😁.
Nope lol. I asked one of the guys who made the statement to do it but he never replied back.
Absolutely on point demonstration u just earned yourself another subscriber
I would hate to bet my life on it. Them wad-cutters have a prevalence for going through things that you wouldn't think they would. And who knows they could be + p ammo as well.
The Underwood round is a +P. I would like to repeat this test with more common ammo, possibly a high end .38+P that's more mainstream VS a mainstream popular 9mm round, just to see what we get. I do have Critical Defense 9mm which I can run through the 4" or 3" barrel and the +P version of this .38 Special round. I have others too, I just have to decide on which ones.
@@GunSam
I know the 9mm will be faster. If the 38 special gets the job done who needs anything else. It's a old design and works well .
@@benjimenfranklin7650 Actually with the Critical Defense I can make the .38 Special faster if I unfairly tweaked the test, in the 3" barrel the 9mm would get about 1,050 FPS/281 FPE and on a good day in the 4" barrel the .38+P version will do 1,130 FPS/312 FPE. However there's no way I will do that lol. I see people do it the other way around to make the 9mm have more power than anything else, but I won't do it for the .38 Special lol. Reminds me of being a kid where the Sega Genesis had "blast processing" and was 16 bit and "as good" as the Super Nintendo 16 bit, but in reality the Super Nintendo was way more powerful lol.
@@GunSam Good info. I have the Ruger LCRx with a 3" barrel. Maybe a good winter carry revolver?
thanks for showing this, alot of people think a 22lr is the same as a pellet gun, while weight in grains really matters it takes more force to move that 35-40 grains 800fps rather than 5-10 grains, so these 100-158 grain 38 special are no joke...its as simple as someone throwing a small pebble and a big rock at the exact same speed...people dont think. any gun that is made to shoot from 90 to 200 grains at exceptional muzzle energy is more than enough for me.
SMH.... Internet experts love to repeat urban legends without ANY first hand experience.... and probably never shot a .38 SPL... I have on me right now a Taurus 856UL with Fedreral HST +P 130gr
The HST are alright rounds and definitely easy to shoot and expand, but I have no idea how well they would do on a test like this. Might be more affected than smaller nose .38 Special rounds.
Taurus model 82 in 4 inch barrel with standard 154 grain fmj , don't stand behind the bar guy👍
Bad guy
I also run the Taurus 856 UL with Magtech 125 +P HP ... Love 'em
" Yeah but !!!!! "
What if there is a Polar Bear between you and your attacker ?
Will the 38 Special penetrate thru the bear and (go 12-18 inches of gelatin) into the attacker wearing a winter coat ?
What if a moose walks in front of the bear ?
Only the 9mm can complete such a feat!
I think if you got bears and moose in your scenario, I think you don't have to worry about that guy with the pistol. Just throw a hot dog or burger at him and leave.
Run😂😂😂😂
LIVIN CINCY ::: don’t know. Never shot a polar bear. I think I would want something a little more juice .
LIVIN CINCY : was a guide story in Alaska fishing guide with a couple. Brown bear became hostile.. it took several round of of buffalo bore hard cast but he put him down
Chicago PD didn't have any problems taking down bad guys with the .38 Special +P 158 grain LSWCHP, and I'm pretty sure it gets VERY cold in Chicago.
Even colder here in MI lol
You forgot the Addidas track suit material as part of the winter clothing. Great testing and myth busting as always.
Not the suit stopping the bullets it's Vinny's rolls. Botta bing botta boom.
@@GunSam fogetaboutit!
As far as my opinion goes on the subject, there really is no cartridge as versatile and useful as the 38Spl.
A plain old lswc will penetrate very well. I have done tests using deer skull and water jugs to see how they do thru bone, and even loaded to a low velocity of 650 fps from a snub nose gives great penetration.
My main carry load in the snub is a 110 grain XTP driven to what is essentially the old Treasury Load, a +p+ load giving about 1050 fps from the snub j frame.
Great video! I think the 38 spl, and revolvers in general deserve more attention.
Thanks!
A very good video, good information, and I hope the detractors will write back to comment what they think now. For the next clothing penetration test, please consider using your LCR in .32 ACP to test FMJ and JHP penetration.
Thank you. It's something to consider. I haven't dabbled in .32 ACP yet.
@@GunSam Only if it is something you would like to do. I know I have more confidence in the .32 ACP than a lot of people and it has not been disproven as a viable cartridge to me so far. I have had five .32 ACP pistols, one was a derringer, I think they are useful in some situations. I don't have one now. I recently reacquired my old Ruger LCR .38 Special since my wife's arthritis and fibromyalgia has gotten so bad she felt she could not use it properly. Thank you for the very useful information we gain from your testing. I do not have a place to shoot. I value your expertise and opinions.
Thank you for posting this. My brother works for PD. He has schooled me well.
The Flex Tip in the Critical Defense bullet is designed specifically to significantly increase the chance of expansion and prevent clogging. If a JHP bullet doesn't expand, it doesn't transfer enough (or any) energy. You could drop a wolf and/or coyote with a .38 Special. I'd go with +P, yes, there's more recoil, but it hits harder and moves faster. If a bad guy/attacker is hopped up on whatever, +P increases the chance of stopping the threat.
I carry a Ruger SP101 and almost always use .38 special +p. When I'm hiking or working in the woods I load .357 magnum. When I'm loaded with .38, the winter clad don't concern me.
Great gun. I've shot both 357 and 38 special with that gun and it is more accurate and controlable when shooting 38 special. The 357 has some kick for sure.
Thanks Sam! So glad too hear that I don't have too flush my .38 special ammo down tbe toilet! Nice work taking those "experts" to school.
The SWC 38 spl+p from Underwood is just as powerful as a regular 357 mag like magthech jsp or something similar. Awesome round if you need the best penetration in a 38 spl. Nice vid by the way.
Thanks!
For winter 148 grain wadcutters. Hollow points are most likely not going to expand. At least the wadcutter will cut through everything and will have great penetration.
As someone who is in the gun industry, I've heard claims along these lines countless times. Usually referring to the .22 LR, .25 ACP, .32 S &W, .32 ACP or .32 S&W Long. Typically it goes something like, "That round won't shoot through one side of a coffee can.", or something like that. Then there are claims of bullets bouncing off trees, boards, other objects, people, etc. I've often wondered if these were pure fabrication, or perhaps the results of using ammunition that was very old and had been contaminated by oil or moisture. That could actually account for these strange stories. People carrying the same ammunition in a gun for many years, even decades, is surprisingly common. Even the little .22 Short will normally penetrate through far more common fabric than any human would ordinarily wear under various weather conditions which naturally occur on Earth. This is certain.
Excellent vid, commentary and knowledge. One time I fired some 110 gr +p Critical Defense into a tree at 25 yards (in the country of course 😁) and it TORE into that tree like a hot knife through butter. I said to myself that the human body isn't that hard, and definitely not enough clothing would stop that. Love your videos man. Thx again. 👊🏽😊
Thank you. I once shot a raccoon from close range with the 110 gr+P Hornady Critical Defense, in a snub nose. Body shot, it dropped and didn't even kick or wiggle.
@@GunSam Impressive. 🤔😁 Btw....I know this MAY be a little off topic. I can't quite remember if I even asked you this before, or if you have a video pertaining to the question, but what's your take on carrying a 22 Magnum LCR for self defense ? I know that any bullet can be lethal, but...just wanted to know. Thx again. 👊🏼😊
@@erich.2550 Probably in a regular civilian situation where a revolver is pulled, it would probably work as well as anything else for deterring an attack with just showing it, and or landing a hit of anything would probably be enough to make them stop what they are doing. Now when we get into non psychological stopping energy where the central nervous system must be hit, a .22 Mag might be not as useful as something larger.
@@GunSam Excellent. Thank you Sir. Much appreciated. 😊👍
38 special getting stopped by winter clothing lol winter coat as body armor priceless
Bounce off!!
Wow we live in an age of deception? No just plain dumb
That Underwood make a great hunting round out of a lever action shooting like a laser out of that 4"
Great video. Nobody can argue with raw experimental data!
State Troopers, County Sheriff Deputies and City Police carried .38 Special revolvers for damn near a century. It must have worked well then also.
They typically used 158 gr LRN. That wouldn't be effected by clothing at all.
Man alive that Underwood Ammo is SMOKIN!!!!
Awesome stuff Sam, now do it with a .327 mag. We just want all the .327 mag. testing we can get.
Thanks! I do plan more soon. I have some Buffalo Bore 100 gr .327 and Buffalo Bore 100 gr .32 H&R mag in an online cart. There is also a new Critical Defense .327 Mag but it hasn't reached retailers yet. When it does it's mine!
@@GunSam YES! And when it is yours, the videos shall be ours. Thank you.
I'm going to come up with a new comment for this one. Never mind the dead bear on the other end of your Jug-Or-Not. How many 9x19mm standard defense loads make over 500 ft-lbs of energy? I'm talking SAAMI spec loads here. I've got a rather nice round number in mind, but I'm not an ammunition expert. We can be fair and assume a 4" service barrel rather than a 3" micro-9 barrel. 38 Spl a wimpy cartridge? Apparently not.
I will speculate that the highest end 9mm+P load under SAAMI specs will produce in a 4.9" Beretta, as much as 450 ft lbs energy but that's the top limit.
@@GunSam Well zero is a pretty round number.
The tiny nines like ruger lcp are awesome, but they have functionality very similar to a double action revolver. The difference is if I carry a 357 mag and load it with low pressure 357, I get tolerable recoil, similar velocity as a 9mm, but with a bullet ranging from 125 grain to 200 grain. Watch a Paul Harrell video. There is A LOT more to consider than a lot of people do. Above all, shot placement is really important. I was very surprised to find that after lots of practice with my revolver, I can pick up an lcp and immediately hit better groups than I did after 500 rounds of practice with my full size 9mm.
If possible, a .36 cap and ball would be neat to see in the jug or not box, since it's what the 38 evolved from
I would like to applaud and congratulate you for all the amazing tests and videos you provide for us. I believe that you are single-handedly are responsible for keeping the 38 Special rounds relevant, as well as showcasing exactly how deadly and efficient this rounds can really be. I personally am a big fan of .38 s. One of my EDC is a Ruger lcrx .38 s +p. It weighs less than 16 oz fully loaded, it's pretty much disappears on my body and is enough to bulwark most if not every, every day complication forthcoming.
But one thing I would like to know. Why are there no 38 special semi-automatics?. Thank you for any response
Thanks Sam. So much for 'experts' especially the self-appointed ones.
Thank you. I remember making this video, it was a lot of fun. But sometimes people accuse me of being drunk because my sarcastic voice sounds like that lol.
@@GunSam Even though I have two 357 Magnum revolvers, one with a 2.5" barrel, the other with a 4" barrel I tend to stick with the dependable old 38 Special. Again, you've dispelled myths from your detractors.
Paul Harrell does a demonstration that shows even a 25 will penetrate heavy clothing
Thanks for swatting down one of the most ridiculous firearm myths out there.
Another great video, very info as well, so glad am subscribed to your channel , keep it up 👏👏👏
Thank you.
I've carried a 4" .38 special revolver for over 40 years. Sometimes I'll take a high capacity 9, my trusty .45 1911, or desert eagle .44 mag, but you just can't beat the low recoil and accuracy of the .38
Thanks for demonstrating the effectiveness of the 38 special to its detractors.
Thank you. I do plan another heavy winter clothing test with high end, but not over normal range energy with 9mm VS .38 Special. I plan to use my Underwood ammo that uses the Gold Dot bullets. The 9mm 124 gr and I got 1,207 FPS in the 4" and the .38 Special 125 gr and I got 1,071 FPS in the 4". The .38 has a larger hollow cavity than the 9mm so i'm curious if that will be a pro or a con.
@@GunSam I look forward to seeing the test.
I carry the same Taurus 605 as my backup on-duty and off duty carry. It eats and spits 38spl and 357mag with great accuracy and I NEVER feel undergunned with it.
It's been a nice revolver. Personally i'd rather carry a no lock S&W for defense.
One time "gunblastdotcom" had a comment that 12 gauge bird shot wouldn't go through a pizza box.
I like it when someone says bird shot is for birds. A 12 gauge bird shot shell has enough energy to kill hundreds of birds.
Still catching up on many of your vids and I like 'em all. Here's a couple points on this one. (#1) While you have a thick pad of material, it's fairly soft stuff (poly insulation, fleece..etc) OTH...seems to me that in heavy weather, a baddie would be wearing something like your heavy canvas outer jacket over other stuff or maybe a heavy "pea coat" or somesuch . I don't know if that would matter that much but it's probably more realistic. (#2) The 38 spl detractors probably refer to the older (and anemic) 160 ish RNL ammo which would not do as well as the more modern stuff. Gotta remember that these "OWT" mostly are repeated for decades with no one to dispute them. That UW 158 gr is easily comparable to at least half of the .357 stuff marketed today.
Most ppl don’t know this but Kentucky ballistics tshirts can stop 1300 grain 50 cal bmg
Alaskan State Troopers carried 38 Speacials for many decades. They had plenty of OIS with perps in very heavy insulated coveralls topped with very heavy winter coats until they went with the Glock model 22 40 caliber.
“Which nobody carries, except for a lot of people I know.” 😎
I was curious about ballistics and clothing, this answers my question.
Have you considered testing both the Buffalo Bore standard pressure .38 Special wadcutters and the Underwood standard pressure .38 Special wadcutters head to head from snubbies?
The Buffalo Bore is $30 and the Underwood is $14 per 20. With that price difference is be interested in seeing how different these two would be. Buffalo Bore claims 850 or so fps from a 2" barrel and Underwood claims around 800 fps from a 4" barrel.
Let me know if I could help sponsor a test with both of these in the Jug-or-not box. Really appreciate all your extensive testing.
sounds like an interesting test. I would test them if I had them.
@@GunSam I may see if I could send the funds to do the test through patreon sometime in the future when I'm able if you'd be interested.
.38 is plenty for concealed carry. You may choose a 9mm semi auto for greater capacity but you are sufficiently armed with a .38
Thanks again. Your info is great for new owners and first time shooters.
I never listen to others! I have to see it for myself to! Great video brother!
Thanks!
I think I read that it was car doors and stuff like that, that police needed a more penetrating round than the 38 back in the day. Not clothing. Besides bullet advancement has improved most rounds too.
Thank you for the great video. 😁👍
What I have seen in testing is that 9mm and .38 Special do the same damage to a soft target, but the 9mm is better if there's a hard barrier. To a certain degree energy is meaningless at a soft target, but energy is very crucial for hard barrier penetration.
When I was a kid In the North End of Kansas City I saw a guy shoot another guy with a .38 Special, it was late fall and the guy that got shot was wearing a coat, the bullets not only went clean through him they also went through the door he was standing in front of and wound up buried in the livingroom wall, So winter clothing! Anyone who says that doesn't know what they're talkin about.
Well done Sam. The internet harbors some fantastic thoughts by less than credible people. If I could, I'd never bother with anything but the 38 spl. But I don't live as well as God. He can do just fine with his 38 snub! Best regards sir!
Thank you. Next it's time to test the .380 auto to see what happens!
We know what will happen. It's never wrong to educate the public. So good on you. Sometimes the internet intelligentsia goes off the rails! Meanwhile, snow is set here! lowest has been windchill of minus 4F! Best time of the year!
I'll stick with 357 magnum, but that was fairly impressive. One thing that might make a 38 inadequate is a fragmenting round. Glaser Blue, for example, aren't really great at penetrating past 4", according to luckygunner.