Looks like total fun Russ. I think you need a couple helpers you can count on , as the group naturally splits up have one of them take the lead of the slower group and the second helper is the sweeper in case of any mechanicals. Laura can lead the front group and you can filter and chat with everyone. This way you will know that no one gets left behind . Stops at the tops of bigger climbs allows regrouping and makes everyone feel like they are part of the group. You guys did great , looks like everyone had a fantastic day !!
I find that hosting group rides is always a bit stressful no matter how many parameters you try to lay out. Having a leader and a sweeper is the best way to try and go with a "party pace ride" I think. I realized I like taking part in rides more than I like hosting them though - no matter how chill or small I just worry too much about everyone.
I've been hosting rides for a couple of years and at first I too was also saying "slow / relaxed" pace. But I also learned to be more specific, some said it was too fast and others it was too slow. So now I say specifically the speed, which for the slow party pace is 10 mph. On one ride I host we have two speeds, 10 mph for the slower group and 15mph for the faster group. With the ride with two speeds we have a turnaround time which is the same for both groups, so we all arrive back roughly the same time.
No drop chill rides are definitely harder to manage due to the wide range of inclusivity and fitness. We typically have a lead, and the sweeper carries tools. extra tubes, extra water, and has a method to talk to the lead via phone or walkie talkie. It's good to set rules with participants, such as making sure that word is passed to the lead/sweep if someone decides to dip out early, or having a buddy system. It looks like you did a great job Laura & Russ !!
I've hosted many Brompton rides, and the one thing I always have to contend with is the widespread cycling abilities of attendees. Setting expectations and sticking to them is key. This way, we let attendees decide if it is for them. Other considerations are expectations for bike serviceability and emergency repair kits. The nearest hospital or emergency response plan is something to have in your back pocket. I've been to rides where we've had a medical emergency (environment-related, not a traffic accident), so it does happen, and it's only a matter of time. I agree with an interesting destination stop. I would shorten the ride and make the stop longer as the featured item on the itinerary. Craft Brewery rides are my favourite, but they come with some obvious risks.
I host a group ride in Missoula (come with if you're in town). I resonate with all of these challenges. It's hard around here because the low traffic routes have a lot of climbing.
The things that have helped on a few more mixed ability groups rides: 1. Pre-publish the route and make it clear that those wanting to go significantly faster/slower are responsible for their own navigation. 2. Pre-plan regroup points, and call out the next one at each regroup point. Establish etiquette for signaling if you are dropping out or blasting ahead so nobody has to panic when someone is not at a regroup point. 3. Having extra leaders to hang with speed clumps as they form is nice, but mostly make it clear what pace the leaders/sweepers are aiming for. 4. Groups that have a lot of repeat riders and routes naturally do a lot of the leading themselves once participants tune into the group's dynamic. Over time the need for a lot of formality will naturally melt away, and the minority of new riders each time will more naturally just learn by osmosis.
When I went on a supposedly party pace ride a few weeks ago, and found out the hard way that my fitness level wasn't really up there with the rest of the group, they simply made one of the faster riders responsible for ensuring that I didn't loose the group.
Hi. If the group is big enough you can go down any road. All the bikes will fill the road. A park is a great destination. Try the group ride at night (with bike lights) . It is really fun.
Nice video and kudos for organizing a group ride. I've led rides for several years that we called casual pace or social pace, with the speed in the description as average 10-12 mph. With any inclines or hills, I would find a safe place to pull off at the top to allow others to catch up and catch their breath before moving on. Our riders were not competitive riders, but were out to get exercise and socialize. Like you planned, we always have a food or coffee shop destination at a mid-point or turn-around point. A ride to the bakery was the Sweet Rose Bakery Ride which later became the Apple Fritter Ride since it was a favorite treat ... Hope this helps. You both are amazing!
Although I ride recumbents and that's a whole different area of cycling, I still enjoy and agree with so many of the topics you post about on your channel. I consider myself more of a "Party Pace" cyclist and I organize a ton of chill group rides all over the mid Atlantic region in the US (MD, PA, DC, VA, DE). Some commonalities of the rides that I put together... 1) Like you, my rides are more of a social event than an athletic achievement 2) My groups are open to anyone who wants to join, but we don't always post them in open social media forums. It's usually friends and friends of friends. We'll usually get anywhere from 10-25 folks who want to come along. 3) These days with cell phones and intercom helmets (we usually have a couple of those in our groups) I don't get too concerned about keeping the group together. We typically stop for pictures at scenic sites and like this ride, there's usually agreed upon meal stops. So people can drag behind and as long as no one has any mechanical issues, we feel comfortable with everyone usually regrouping at the stops. If someone does break down, there's usually 2 or 3 of us in the ride that are fairly mechanically inclined and one of us will double back to help someone if they need it. 4) Around us, it helps to ride pre-defined trail and rail trail routes. On top of there usually not being any cars to worry about it. People aren't easily getting lost if they significantly separate from the group. We live in Baltimore and there are so many nice trail rides within a 90 minute radius of our place, I feel like it never gets boring. Typically if we venture farther out than 90 minutes away from our place we'll plan for a more elaborate overnight trip (which happens a bit too) 5) As the meetup goals are usually socially driven, I encourage all types of bikes to ride with us. On our rides we'll often have two wheeled recumbents (my favorite), delta and tadpole trike recumbents, tandem bikes, lots traditional upright bikes and a couple e-assist bikes. 6) We also encourage friends with disabilities to join us. I have a good friend who's blind and loves being a stoker on a tandem recumbent that I'll take out occasionally. We sometimes have a friend's daughter join us who's developmentally disabled and will ride in a delta trike that's linked to her mother's delta trike with an e-assist motor that allows them both to get out and enjoy the events. 7) Because we essentially form these rides with groups of friends, there are clusters of friends that will ride together, but I find that usually the pace dictates who you end up talking with for most of the ride. So while we don't really push the concept of trying to talk to and meet new people, I think that happens naturally with people just riding at common paces together.
That looked pretty fun! Awesome job you two! It is not a mean feat to thoughtfully plan cycling routes for group rides. A thought on pacing. The club I went on my first group ride with (and later led for a couple years) had a huge range of ability and fitness levels with group size ranging from 8-10 to 60, depending on the ride. How we dealt with the disparity was to set a stop (typically 8-10 miles or 40-60 minutes of riding) ahead on the route. This was usually a landmark, grocery store, road house/restaurant, or milepost. (Alaska in the early to Mid 1980s, we used paper maps and institutional knowledge to pick stops) After the safety speech, waiver, and equipment check, the first stop would be announced, and the riders would set off, we always had a sweeper. The faster riders would get to the stop and wait. After the sweeper arrived, there was a 10-15 minute break, then the next stop would be announced and the riders set off again. Rinse and repeat. About mid ride, there would usually be 30-90 minutes for lunch. Usually on the 40-62 milers, there were planned (climbing Bodenburg Butte or swimming in Nancy Lake) or spontaneous (once, a river rafting company saw us and offered us a great group discount, so we took 2 hours to go whitewater rafting!) excursion stops . At the last stop at the end of the ride, everyone would wait for the sweeper, mingle, say their goodbyes and head home. Day rides were 40-100+ miles (max 12 hours) overnight tours 75-150 miles, week tours 300-360 miles. This pacing formula worked really well for that group, and could be pretty easily adjusted on the fly to compensate for group composition and ability. Hope this is of some use.
Great idea, kudos to you & Laura. I lead group activities with clubs. Just need to set 'exact' expectations like length, how hilly, gravel/road terrain etc & let them know an approximate average speed & that it's a party pace. Having coffee stop etc at end is a great idea. Have a clear pep talk at the start saying any safety info, etiquette like regrouping at the top of hills etc. It is stressful managing a group, like 'herding cats' but to me its so rewarding. See if you can have a couple of helpers come along to motivate & help stragglers etc.
Happy the ride went well. The variety of bikes was fun. Only nugget I thought of was to announce “stronger riders keep an eye out to support anyone struggling. Maybe good for giving egos (even unintentional) a productive place to park.
Looks like a great ride! When I do some MTB group rides, one of the best parts is socializing when waiting for the stragglers and catching our breath. Those stops are a great way to get to know everybody during the ride, and as long as there is an expectation of being relaxed and that no one is extremely slow, I don't mind waiting at all. Riding a bike is only one of the reasons I go on group rides.
Looks like so much fun!!! Only tip I got is have a sweep on the back to make sure no one gets dropped. May find someone that becomes a regular on you rides that would be willing to pick up the job
The more people, the more inevitable a split; 8-10 mph and 10-12 mph (12-16 kph and 16-20 kph) are the two most likely party pace groups. The lower for novices and the higher for experienced. It depends on who shows up on a given day.
Great to see ypu both settling in and the geoup ride is a great idea to both meet new people and feed into the channel. I have done roadie group rides here in the uk but found social rides (like yours) more enjoyable, we actually ended up with a splinter group that did exactly that. Most years i enter the dirt dashes here in the uk which follow the 'dont be a dick' mantra, i think a decent way of guageing ability is on average mph with ft climbed. So if its 13mph average over 20miles with 1500ft of climbing people can relate that to their wahoo/garmin/strava history. Hope to join you both sometime. Enjoy the sunshine 😊
We do breakfast rides and Friday night rides that are super chill. We say 10 MPH if anyone asks, but they can be anywhere from 8 MPH to 12+ MPH depending on who shows up. What works really well is to publish time, not distance. New riders might think five miles sounds like a lot, but 30 minutes sounds reasonable. These rides are all no drop, even if, as sometimes happens, someone brings a ten year old on a 20" Walmart BMX. We'll get there when we get there.
Well done. I would consider making it a weekly ride. Once you get a group of regulars in the habit of coming out then everyone can take turns a ride leader. Keep it Party Pace and have fun. 🧡
Our group averages 12mph, more on flats, less on hills. Regroup after climbs. Definitely need a leader and a sweeper. Also announce it’s a no drop ride and post the route on RWGPS or similar if you can. Start an email list if you want. Good luck!
Consider a concert, music fare or festival. Had always wanted to do one and luckily found a leasure group from a bike shop in Nagoya "Circles", that was going to the same venue after i had already purchased my festival concert tickets after finding it during a tour in Europe. Saw UA and Salyu live, was totally awesome even though the second day, the festival got drenched in a downpour! Thing is after the venue you have to part ways because of various levels of exhaustion and possible innebriation (Okinawan Orion beer is damned good though!) After the drenched concert was lucky to find a small room in a business hotel for a hot bath, and warm if somewhat cigarette smelly room!
Following this thread. Some good pointers here. Currently also hosting a gravel group ride in Alicante. I guess our spectrum is between training shop ride and party pace. There’s so much climbing right out of the gate that any gravel riding immediately requires a pretty solid foundation level of fitness. That said, it would still be fun to not race and see the mountains, breathe the air, enjoy the scenery without getting dropped, but also not have to wait for long periods of time because then the overall time commitment becomes significant. So far, what this has meant is that the group has to have very similar levels of fitness to be successful. It almost feels like I’m getting into the realm of tennis player ratings. It’s either that or increase overall patience which has been tricky. Any advice appreciated! Cheers!
I completely understand the challenges you faced. My shop rides are a trick to manage sinnce while there are not a lot of riders in Lakeview they cover the whole spectrum of abilities, and we get temporary employees, mostly from the hospital, who on the whole are pretty fast. I try to keep the rides party pace and set designated regroup spots. In spite of the challenges the rides are a ton of fun, I look forward to the weather allowing me to start again!
I ran large charity rides for a few years, and I congratulate you on a successful ride and for putting yourself out there. A safety speech and basic first aid kit for the eventual tumble may help. Also, perhaps a required e-signed liability waiver that is scrubbed by a local attorney to limit your liability.
I’ve seen info such as: “Although this will be a leisurely ride, participants should be able to maintain # mph pace”. Also, “# stop(s) are planned to allow riders to regroup”. If I was there, I’d gladly join your group rides!
Going for a Trundle. We used to cycle in groups back in the 80's in the countryside around Liverpool UK. Some of us on tandems, some on solo bikes, and even a triplet. Speed wasn't the purpose, it was to take in the countryside, we also stopped for Lubricants at lovely country pubs, and after a couple of scoops of real ale, and perhaps a pie, we were off again 😊❤
Congrats on your first group ride. In our gravel WhatsApp group, we just operate a "No drop" policy. We limit numbers or appoint a second group leader- usually someone with the route will happily volunteer- as inevitably a large group will split. (Still, nobody is racing.) Then the two groups will always meet in the pub for a pint at the finish.
…Great job👍! I say keep “Party Pace” and add “no drop”. …This means a couple of folks have to bring up the rear. …Maybe ID/request for some volunteers prior to the ride. …Maybe use different volunteers for each ride.
stronger riders on slower bikes nice way to keep everyone together. eg. abt 50% more power for mtb with suspension v road bike over similar terrain - hence a most excellent burn leading the train
I've led my fair share of these types of rides. What I think you got right - distance, having a destination in mind (during or after), having a lead. As some others mentioned - it can be good to have a sweep as well. This could be something you could recruit another person for if you want to take some of the pressure off. I assume you did this as well - but offering up the route in advance is helpful to the 'planners' of the bunch, while others may just show up and go with the flow. Both are ok as long as people recognize that they are ultimately responsible for themselves. It can be natural as a caring person to want to take this on for others, but the more of this you take on IMO it increases the responsibility/liability/anxiety of running these things. Setting expectations - It's ok to state an estimated avg pace on flats along with saying that it may fluctuate depending on the group if it's offered up as truly a no drop. Some of the other philosophy around 'party pace' you mentioned is really important to explicitly mention at the beginning of the ride, e.g. don't be a jerk, ride your ride, this is a social event not a training ride for your next crit. I'm not sure if Spain is quite as legalistic, but some folks I know who operate rides like this both carry small amounts of insurance and make a statement at the beginning about liability. Everyone should be wearing a helmet. This sounds intense but I think there's a way to present it while emphasizing the fun of the ride. All that said, this sounds like a ride I would have loved to join, I hope as you do more of these you can feel less drained coming out of them :) Truly a great way to build community and get to know some like-minded folks in a space.
When I lead rides, as far as pace goes, I give a number for the flats (ie 12 mph on the flats, slower on the uphills, faster on the downhills). I also put regroup spots on the route guide, and have a sweep. When I don’t have a sweep, I lead from the back with the slowest rider.
I lead rides for our local club (MHCC\Albany NY 600 members). Being clear on pace, elevation gain and regrouping is crucial. Make sure the route is public and everyone has a copy-digital or good old paper cue sheets. Most of the rides I lead just have a sweep so riders can ride their own pace. Most of my rides are posted for 11-13 mph, 20-25 miles and 1,000 to 1,500 feet of climbing.
Not surprising that a nation which hosts one of the grand tours has an extremely racing-center cycling culture. Fertile soil for evangelizing that sweet sweet ritmo de fiesta!
Hi Russ. I think keep it simple. Explain what Party Pace is (the philosophy), and what it isn't (riding by numbers - other than the distance of the ride). I have worked helped out as a tour guide on a number of Party Pace style cycling holidays here in Portugal, and we always had one helper at the front and one bringing up the rear. I think if folks really want to come on your rides, and they've had a look at your channel, they will know how it works. How can I keep updated about future rides? I plan to come over in the spring to ride some of your routes and join a group ride while I'm there. Keep up the great work, and please don't be concerned about pleasing everyone - it isn't possible 😂
For a ride like this, a lead and a sweep, with some well communicated regroup points are a good thing, it seems like you had the most of the down. As far as pace, that one is tough. I know you and Laura are riders vs racers. Maybe take your typical time for the riding the route and add a percentage on top, whether that's 25% or 50% is up to you. Advertise that time as including or not including stops and then learn from there. If you use the same routes, it will give you more data to help dial the times in.
Looked like a fun day out. "Party Pace" is hard to judge. For example, on a local route, my wife's hard effort is 12km/h average, my solo steady (not fast) pace is 18km/h. It's going to be hard to judge in advance. However, setting expectations on distance, climbing (especially hardest effort) & road surface helps. As well as ground rules for dealing with strongest & weakest (I use those terms rather than fast/slow) riders. On such a ride, strong riders should be able to keep pace with the weaker ones.
Pre ride the route if you're new to leading, an actual pace speed is very important in keeping your ride as transparent and inclusive as possible. Goes without saying but emphasize that it's a no drop ride as well.
I would have enjoyed that ride, well done! It’s hard to figure out the mph of “Party Pace”. I’d try some more rides and see what your averages are. I used to ride with a very diverse and chill group in North Carolina and what I found including regrouping and water/snack stops it was 10 mph. This is considering roughly 30 miles and 2300 climbing. I found that as time went on I was trying to become stronger and faster (a personal goal mind you). I kept riding with these friends because they were great people and fun. I made the rides more challenging for myself by trying to ride the rides only in the big chain ring, or sometimes riding earlier in the morning for myself by trying personal “training”. I think”Part Pace” is a state of mind and just forewarning folks that being flexible and laid back is the “order of the day”. Keep up the good work!❤
I don't have much advice other than if you have a bunch of regular riders then the pace will sort itself out on its own.. And don't worry too much try and enjoy it.
I will not make any recommendations as you and Laura continue to impress with your ideas and follow through. I think itll all work out over time as riders get to know one another and their riding style.
Great video, Russ and Laura. I'm a member of a Vermont bike club - GMBC - and they have weekly group rides from "VIP", time trial, and "Social rides" that have a more-leisurely pace. They do list an average MPH for each category of the group ride and break into smaller groups including a "no drop." I'll be in Girona next September starting a self-guided tour with VBT Bicycling Vacations but would love to do this ride and hit the food truck. Can you share the route or the name of the food truck/town? Our Girona ride heads toward Rocacorba but doesn't climb it.
Russ can you do a film about your move to Spain now that you are settled? Is it your forever place / any regrets? If you’ve already made this one I’ll shirk off to a dark corner!
I think partypace shouldn't (and does not need to) be a specific number, since everybodys abilities are different. Therefore everybodys chill pace is just different. The result is a group that splits up from time to time. In the end such a Ride has to be fun, if it is no fun, the social aspect won't work as well. And at a climb everyone has a diffrent pace that is fun for them. The importance lies in the way the event is announced and in the way you communicate it. If you make it clear, that it is about riding together and that there are certain spots where you meet (to eat something for example) than you will automaticly cater towards people, who are there for the experience and the social aspects, rather than going fast. So everybody is willing to wait. At the same time I totally understand that it feels wierd as a organisier, if the group is splitting at times. I think that's no problem at all. Just like at a house party, it is good to have smaller groups within the big group, that's just how social interaction works. It is just important to have spots where the big group comes back together, like at the top of a climb. Also, you are doing this for the first time, and it is totally natural that communities need time to grow together. The more often you'll do it, the less problems with pacing you'll have. People will learn to know what to expect. The ones who didn't enjoy it won't come again. The important ones will stay! Keep it up! Would love to join, but it's quite a distance from germany. Sorry for my broken english.
Simply call it no-drop and its okay to have someone set the pace up front and someone in the back making sure nobody is left behind. It’s work for sure…
Off topic but do you happen to know the brand of Bullmoose bars on the GT and if he was able to get that up without shims? Nice job hosting the group ride. Horse farms and food trucks are always a win!
I wonder if someone were tracking the real pace of the ride, or maybe collecting the pace of multiple rides, if that would help. You could say "on the last such ride we were average x speed on flat sections and y speed on climbs, with n breaks." More so that the people thinking about joining can judge if they can keep up while enjoying the ride.
Last summer I did three group rides that had very different flavors. One was an "intro to bikepacking" sponsored by a shop, 30 miles out to a county park, then two nights camping, and 30 miles back. It was well run and stuck to the stated goals and pace, keeping track of everyone. I could tell the folks who organized worked really hard. I did a typical "club" road ride which was not as nice. They claimed "no drop" but then went faster than a lot of the attendees could manage, and dropped a bunch of folks. I was able to stay with the group but it wasn't enjoyable. The main problem I think was that they didn't do what they said they were going to do, which felt sort of crappy. Finally I did a true beginners group ride which was open to anyone of almost any ability, and was purely a social ride. That was fun, but with no expectation about pace whatsoever it was pretty much impossible to keep everyone together. The organizers did a good job under the circumstances but most of the more fit people ended up bailing early just because it dragged on much longer than was announced in planning. I guess my takeaway is to try to announce and then meet expectations. If you say it's a no-drop ride, then make it a no-drop ride, even if the faster people get cranky about that. Likewise, if it's a roughly three hour tour, make sure it doesn't become a six hour tour :-). Maybe those are contradictory? Not sure.
I don't have any experience with group rides, but maybe give an estimated time for the total trip rather than average speed. Also I think it's funny that I only found out about your channel after we both had left Missoula.
I've been leading a monthly taco ride, here in Dallas since 2015. On listing the pace, since I never know exactly who will show up and who they might bring with them, I just say that this is a no-drop ride. Sometimes folks show up with their kiddo, riding on training wheels and that's okay. We will ride no faster than our slowest rider. That does not mean that a slow rider makes everyone crawl for the entire ride. I keep it under about 14 mph and if the riders start getting strung out, we will stop every few miles and let everyone gather back up.
pacing is so hard... maybe if there were a few more people, the pace could have been split - a faster group and a slower group. I'm definitely a slow rider, but even when biking with my family, "I" the fastest one so I usually follow and let my partner lead since he is even slower than I am.
Strange you talk in miles not km in Spain. And you do not mention language used by participants. Sounds like mainly English. I am in a club in Bordeaux France where we ride for the whole day. Lunch at restaurant Thursdays in winter, picnic otherwise. We speak French. Two rides a week. Typically 80-100 km plus getting to start point. For me they are mostly 100-130 km for the day. Rule is 20-22 km/h normal pace, but average 15 km/h. Mostly there is a gpx file to follow or just follow the leader. Faster people stop and wait for slower ones. We stop when there are sights to see. Lots of conversation. No big climbs near Bx, but there are ares where climbing can add up. Mostly ashphalt. Ages 50-89. Mainly muscle power. Group size 3-20.
Great work, looked like a super fun great outing! I would add to the suggestions a pair of radios and the back sweeper can keep in touch easier without having to call a mobile (which is also a bit more complicated with gloves versus radio, press a button and talk). I have sent a message via Instagram to see when the next ride is and I will try to join you!
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Looks like total fun Russ. I think you need a couple helpers you can count on , as the group naturally splits up have one of them take the lead of the slower group and the second helper is the sweeper in case of any mechanicals. Laura can lead the front group and you can filter and chat with everyone. This way you will know that no one gets left behind . Stops at the tops of bigger climbs allows regrouping and makes everyone feel like they are part of the group. You guys did great , looks like everyone had a fantastic day !!
this right here ^
@@someplacespecial Third the idea of waiting at the top of bigger climbs. Those separate folks the most. Congrats on what sounded like a great ride!
I find that hosting group rides is always a bit stressful no matter how many parameters you try to lay out.
Having a leader and a sweeper is the best way to try and go with a "party pace ride" I think.
I realized I like taking part in rides more than I like hosting them though - no matter how chill or small I just worry too much about everyone.
I've been hosting rides for a couple of years and at first I too was also saying "slow / relaxed" pace. But I also learned to be more specific, some said it was too fast and others it was too slow. So now I say specifically the speed, which for the slow party pace is 10 mph. On one ride I host we have two speeds, 10 mph for the slower group and 15mph for the faster group. With the ride with two speeds we have a turnaround time which is the same for both groups, so we all arrive back roughly the same time.
No drop chill rides are definitely harder to manage due to the wide range of inclusivity and fitness. We typically have a lead, and the sweeper carries tools. extra tubes, extra water, and has a method to talk to the lead via phone or walkie talkie. It's good to set rules with participants, such as making sure that word is passed to the lead/sweep if someone decides to dip out early, or having a buddy system. It looks like you did a great job Laura & Russ !!
I've hosted many Brompton rides, and the one thing I always have to contend with is the widespread cycling abilities of attendees. Setting expectations and sticking to them is key. This way, we let attendees decide if it is for them. Other considerations are expectations for bike serviceability and emergency repair kits. The nearest hospital or emergency response plan is something to have in your back pocket. I've been to rides where we've had a medical emergency (environment-related, not a traffic accident), so it does happen, and it's only a matter of time. I agree with an interesting destination stop. I would shorten the ride and make the stop longer as the featured item on the itinerary. Craft Brewery rides are my favourite, but they come with some obvious risks.
That GT Timberline is pretty sweet!
I host a group ride in Missoula (come with if you're in town). I resonate with all of these challenges. It's hard around here because the low traffic routes have a lot of climbing.
You see the recently proposed Montana state law that would force cyclists to ride opposing traffic? You think it could pass?
@randomdude5938 yeah, it's ridiculous. Hopefully not but who knows with that crew
The things that have helped on a few more mixed ability groups rides:
1. Pre-publish the route and make it clear that those wanting to go significantly faster/slower are responsible for their own navigation.
2. Pre-plan regroup points, and call out the next one at each regroup point. Establish etiquette for signaling if you are dropping out or blasting ahead so nobody has to panic when someone is not at a regroup point.
3. Having extra leaders to hang with speed clumps as they form is nice, but mostly make it clear what pace the leaders/sweepers are aiming for.
4. Groups that have a lot of repeat riders and routes naturally do a lot of the leading themselves once participants tune into the group's dynamic. Over time the need for a lot of formality will naturally melt away, and the minority of new riders each time will more naturally just learn by osmosis.
When I went on a supposedly party pace ride a few weeks ago, and found out the hard way that my fitness level wasn't really up there with the rest of the group, they simply made one of the faster riders responsible for ensuring that I didn't loose the group.
Hi. If the group is big enough you can go down any road. All the bikes will fill the road. A park is a great destination. Try the group ride at night (with bike lights) . It is really fun.
Just start with a notion that at best it will be like herding cats, and you won’t go far wrong. Lovely.
Nice video and kudos for organizing a group ride. I've led rides for several years that we called casual pace or social pace, with the speed in the description as average 10-12 mph. With any inclines or hills, I would find a safe place to pull off at the top to allow others to catch up and catch their breath before moving on. Our riders were not competitive riders, but were out to get exercise and socialize. Like you planned, we always have a food or coffee shop destination at a mid-point or turn-around point. A ride to the bakery was the Sweet Rose Bakery Ride which later became the Apple Fritter Ride since it was a favorite treat ... Hope this helps. You both are amazing!
Respect to you for doing this. I put on two bike events in NYS every year. It's a ton of work - and way more than most people realize!
Although I ride recumbents and that's a whole different area of cycling, I still enjoy and agree with so many of the topics you post about on your channel. I consider myself more of a "Party Pace" cyclist and I organize a ton of chill group rides all over the mid Atlantic region in the US (MD, PA, DC, VA, DE). Some commonalities of the rides that I put together...
1) Like you, my rides are more of a social event than an athletic achievement
2) My groups are open to anyone who wants to join, but we don't always post them in open social media forums. It's usually friends and friends of friends. We'll usually get anywhere from 10-25 folks who want to come along.
3) These days with cell phones and intercom helmets (we usually have a couple of those in our groups) I don't get too concerned about keeping the group together. We typically stop for pictures at scenic sites and like this ride, there's usually agreed upon meal stops. So people can drag behind and as long as no one has any mechanical issues, we feel comfortable with everyone usually regrouping at the stops. If someone does break down, there's usually 2 or 3 of us in the ride that are fairly mechanically inclined and one of us will double back to help someone if they need it.
4) Around us, it helps to ride pre-defined trail and rail trail routes. On top of there usually not being any cars to worry about it. People aren't easily getting lost if they significantly separate from the group. We live in Baltimore and there are so many nice trail rides within a 90 minute radius of our place, I feel like it never gets boring. Typically if we venture farther out than 90 minutes away from our place we'll plan for a more elaborate overnight trip (which happens a bit too)
5) As the meetup goals are usually socially driven, I encourage all types of bikes to ride with us. On our rides we'll often have two wheeled recumbents (my favorite), delta and tadpole trike recumbents, tandem bikes, lots traditional upright bikes and a couple e-assist bikes.
6) We also encourage friends with disabilities to join us. I have a good friend who's blind and loves being a stoker on a tandem recumbent that I'll take out occasionally. We sometimes have a friend's daughter join us who's developmentally disabled and will ride in a delta trike that's linked to her mother's delta trike with an e-assist motor that allows them both to get out and enjoy the events.
7) Because we essentially form these rides with groups of friends, there are clusters of friends that will ride together, but I find that usually the pace dictates who you end up talking with for most of the ride. So while we don't really push the concept of trying to talk to and meet new people, I think that happens naturally with people just riding at common paces together.
That looked pretty fun! Awesome job you two! It is not a mean feat to thoughtfully plan cycling routes for group rides.
A thought on pacing.
The club I went on my first group ride with (and later led for a couple years) had a huge range of ability and fitness levels with group size ranging from 8-10 to 60, depending on the ride. How we dealt with the disparity was to set a stop (typically 8-10 miles or 40-60 minutes of riding) ahead on the route. This was usually a landmark, grocery store, road house/restaurant, or milepost. (Alaska in the early to Mid 1980s, we used paper maps and institutional knowledge to pick stops) After the safety speech, waiver, and equipment check, the first stop would be announced, and the riders would set off, we always had a sweeper. The faster riders would get to the stop and wait. After the sweeper arrived, there was a 10-15 minute break, then the next stop would be announced and the riders set off again. Rinse and repeat. About mid ride, there would usually be 30-90 minutes for lunch. Usually on the 40-62 milers, there were planned (climbing Bodenburg Butte or swimming in Nancy Lake) or spontaneous (once, a river rafting company saw us and offered us a great group discount, so we took 2 hours to go whitewater rafting!) excursion stops . At the last stop at the end of the ride, everyone would wait for the sweeper, mingle, say their goodbyes and head home. Day rides were 40-100+ miles (max 12 hours) overnight tours 75-150 miles, week tours 300-360 miles. This pacing formula worked really well for that group, and could be pretty easily adjusted on the fly to compensate for group composition and ability.
Hope this is of some use.
Great idea, kudos to you & Laura. I lead group activities with clubs. Just need to set 'exact' expectations like length, how hilly, gravel/road terrain etc & let them know an approximate average speed & that it's a party pace. Having coffee stop etc at end is a great idea. Have a clear pep talk at the start saying any safety info, etiquette like regrouping at the top of hills etc. It is stressful managing a group, like 'herding cats' but to me its so rewarding. See if you can have a couple of helpers come along to motivate & help stragglers etc.
This is so great, looks so much fun! Congrats on the first group ride - greetings from London, hope you'll do one here one day
Happy the ride went well. The variety of bikes was fun.
Only nugget I thought of was to announce “stronger riders keep an eye out to support anyone struggling. Maybe good for giving egos (even unintentional) a productive place to park.
Looks like a great ride! When I do some MTB group rides, one of the best parts is socializing when waiting for the stragglers and catching our breath. Those stops are a great way to get to know everybody during the ride, and as long as there is an expectation of being relaxed and that no one is extremely slow, I don't mind waiting at all. Riding a bike is only one of the reasons I go on group rides.
Haven’t done one for awhile but my group’s idea of party pace is more akin to a slow race, basically moving just fast enough not to fall over.
Looks like so much fun!!! Only tip I got is have a sweep on the back to make sure no one gets dropped. May find someone that becomes a regular on you rides that would be willing to pick up the job
Great video! Hopefully some upcoming coffee and/or fly fishing rides!
The more people, the more inevitable a split; 8-10 mph and 10-12 mph (12-16 kph and 16-20 kph) are the two most likely party pace groups. The lower for novices and the higher for experienced. It depends on who shows up on a given day.
Great to see ypu both settling in and the geoup ride is a great idea to both meet new people and feed into the channel. I have done roadie group rides here in the uk but found social rides (like yours) more enjoyable, we actually ended up with a splinter group that did exactly that. Most years i enter the dirt dashes here in the uk which follow the 'dont be a dick' mantra, i think a decent way of guageing ability is on average mph with ft climbed. So if its 13mph average over 20miles with 1500ft of climbing people can relate that to their wahoo/garmin/strava history. Hope to join you both sometime. Enjoy the sunshine 😊
We do breakfast rides and Friday night rides that are super chill. We say 10 MPH if anyone asks, but they can be anywhere from 8 MPH to 12+ MPH depending on who shows up. What works really well is to publish time, not distance. New riders might think five miles sounds like a lot, but 30 minutes sounds reasonable. These rides are all no drop, even if, as sometimes happens, someone brings a ten year old on a 20" Walmart BMX.
We'll get there when we get there.
Beautiful scenery! Sounds like a friendly ride. It was good of you to organize this!
Looks lots of fun... I'd come from the UK for this.
RAR has a good guide to hosting rides. The cycling group I'm in used that as a starting base for group rides.
Well done. I would consider making it a weekly ride. Once you get a group of regulars in the habit of coming out then everyone can take turns a ride leader. Keep it Party Pace and have fun. 🧡
Love the GT - super nice!
Our group averages 12mph, more on flats, less on hills. Regroup after climbs. Definitely need a leader and a sweeper. Also announce it’s a no drop ride and post the route on RWGPS or similar if you can. Start an email list if you want. Good luck!
Consider a concert, music fare or festival. Had always wanted to do one and luckily found a leasure group from a bike shop in Nagoya "Circles", that was going to the same venue after i had already purchased my festival concert tickets after finding it during a tour in Europe. Saw UA and Salyu live, was totally awesome even though the second day, the festival got drenched in a downpour!
Thing is after the venue you have to part ways because of various levels of exhaustion and possible innebriation (Okinawan Orion beer is damned good though!) After the drenched concert was lucky to find a small room in a business hotel for a hot bath, and warm if somewhat cigarette smelly room!
Following this thread. Some good pointers here. Currently also hosting a gravel group ride in Alicante. I guess our spectrum is between training shop ride and party pace. There’s so much climbing right out of the gate that any gravel riding immediately requires a pretty solid foundation level of fitness. That said, it would still be fun to not race and see the mountains, breathe the air, enjoy the scenery without getting dropped, but also not have to wait for long periods of time because then the overall time commitment becomes significant. So far, what this has meant is that the group has to have very similar levels of fitness to be successful. It almost feels like I’m getting into the realm of tennis player ratings. It’s either that or increase overall patience which has been tricky. Any advice appreciated! Cheers!
I completely understand the challenges you faced. My shop rides are a trick to manage sinnce while there are not a lot of riders in Lakeview they cover the whole spectrum of abilities, and we get temporary employees, mostly from the hospital, who on the whole are pretty fast. I try to keep the rides party pace and set designated regroup spots. In spite of the challenges the rides are a ton of fun, I look forward to the weather allowing me to start again!
After going over a hill have faster people wait at the bottom of the hill for others to catch up. Then move on together as a group.
Wish I was in the area. Sounds wonderful!
I ran large charity rides for a few years, and I congratulate you on a successful ride and for putting yourself out there. A safety speech and basic first aid kit for the eventual tumble may help. Also, perhaps a required e-signed liability waiver that is scrubbed by a local attorney to limit your liability.
I’ve seen info such as: “Although this will be a leisurely ride, participants should be able to maintain # mph pace”. Also, “# stop(s) are planned to allow riders to regroup”. If I was there, I’d gladly join your group rides!
Going for a Trundle.
We used to cycle in groups back in the 80's in the countryside around Liverpool UK. Some of us on tandems, some on solo bikes, and even a triplet. Speed wasn't the purpose, it was to take in the countryside, we also stopped for Lubricants at lovely country pubs, and after a couple of scoops of real ale, and perhaps a pie, we were off again 😊❤
Congrats on your first group ride.
In our gravel WhatsApp group, we just operate a "No drop" policy.
We limit numbers or appoint a second group leader- usually someone with the route will happily volunteer- as inevitably a large group will split. (Still, nobody is racing.) Then the two groups will always meet in the pub for a pint at the finish.
…Great job👍! I say keep “Party Pace” and add “no drop”.
…This means a couple of folks have to bring up the rear.
…Maybe ID/request for some volunteers prior to the ride.
…Maybe use different volunteers for each ride.
I've found the best way to keep the 'party pace' is to be up in front of the group. Social rides are a blast, the more you do them the easier it gets.
It looked like a fun ride, congratulations 👍
stronger riders on slower bikes nice way to keep everyone together. eg. abt 50% more power for mtb with suspension v road bike over similar terrain - hence a most excellent burn leading the train
I've led my fair share of these types of rides. What I think you got right - distance, having a destination in mind (during or after), having a lead.
As some others mentioned - it can be good to have a sweep as well. This could be something you could recruit another person for if you want to take some of the pressure off.
I assume you did this as well - but offering up the route in advance is helpful to the 'planners' of the bunch, while others may just show up and go with the flow. Both are ok as long as people recognize that they are ultimately responsible for themselves. It can be natural as a caring person to want to take this on for others, but the more of this you take on IMO it increases the responsibility/liability/anxiety of running these things.
Setting expectations - It's ok to state an estimated avg pace on flats along with saying that it may fluctuate depending on the group if it's offered up as truly a no drop. Some of the other philosophy around 'party pace' you mentioned is really important to explicitly mention at the beginning of the ride, e.g. don't be a jerk, ride your ride, this is a social event not a training ride for your next crit. I'm not sure if Spain is quite as legalistic, but some folks I know who operate rides like this both carry small amounts of insurance and make a statement at the beginning about liability. Everyone should be wearing a helmet. This sounds intense but I think there's a way to present it while emphasizing the fun of the ride.
All that said, this sounds like a ride I would have loved to join, I hope as you do more of these you can feel less drained coming out of them :) Truly a great way to build community and get to know some like-minded folks in a space.
As a bike nerd id like to see the bikes and definitely more rides 👍
When I lead rides, as far as pace goes, I give a number for the flats (ie 12 mph on the flats, slower on the uphills, faster on the downhills). I also put regroup spots on the route guide, and have a sweep. When I don’t have a sweep, I lead from the back with the slowest rider.
I lead rides for our local club (MHCC\Albany NY 600 members). Being clear on pace, elevation gain and regrouping is crucial. Make sure the route is public and everyone has a copy-digital or good old paper cue sheets. Most of the rides I lead just have a sweep so riders can ride their own pace. Most of my rides are posted for 11-13 mph, 20-25 miles and 1,000 to 1,500 feet of climbing.
0:25 nice Kierkegaard reference
Great job guys. We had fun!
Not surprising that a nation which hosts one of the grand tours has an extremely racing-center cycling culture. Fertile soil for evangelizing that sweet sweet ritmo de fiesta!
Hi Russ. I think keep it simple. Explain what Party Pace is (the philosophy), and what it isn't (riding by numbers - other than the distance of the ride). I have worked helped out as a tour guide on a number of Party Pace style cycling holidays here in Portugal, and we always had one helper at the front and one bringing up the rear. I think if folks really want to come on your rides, and they've had a look at your channel, they will know how it works.
How can I keep updated about future rides? I plan to come over in the spring to ride some of your routes and join a group ride while I'm there.
Keep up the great work, and please don't be concerned about pleasing everyone - it isn't possible 😂
For a ride like this, a lead and a sweep, with some well communicated regroup points are a good thing, it seems like you had the most of the down. As far as pace, that one is tough. I know you and Laura are riders vs racers. Maybe take your typical time for the riding the route and add a percentage on top, whether that's 25% or 50% is up to you. Advertise that time as including or not including stops and then learn from there. If you use the same routes, it will give you more data to help dial the times in.
Looked like a fun day out.
"Party Pace" is hard to judge. For example, on a local route, my wife's hard effort is 12km/h average, my solo steady (not fast) pace is 18km/h. It's going to be hard to judge in advance.
However, setting expectations on distance, climbing (especially hardest effort) & road surface helps. As well as ground rules for dealing with strongest & weakest (I use those terms rather than fast/slow) riders. On such a ride, strong riders should be able to keep pace with the weaker ones.
Pre ride the route if you're new to leading, an actual pace speed is very important in keeping your ride as transparent and inclusive as possible. Goes without saying but emphasize that it's a no drop ride as well.
I would have enjoyed that ride, well done! It’s hard to figure out the mph of “Party Pace”. I’d try some more rides and see what your averages are. I used to ride with a very diverse and chill group in North Carolina and what I found including regrouping and water/snack stops it was 10 mph. This is considering roughly 30 miles and 2300 climbing. I found that as time went on I was trying to become stronger and faster (a personal goal mind you). I kept riding with these friends because they were great people and fun. I made the rides more challenging for myself by trying to ride the rides only in the big chain ring, or sometimes riding earlier in the morning for myself by trying personal “training”. I think”Part Pace” is a state of mind and just forewarning folks that being flexible and laid back is the “order of the day”. Keep up the good work!❤
I don't have much advice other than if you have a bunch of regular riders then the pace will sort itself out on its own.. And don't worry too much try and enjoy it.
I will not make any recommendations as you and Laura continue to impress with your ideas and follow through.
I think itll all work out over time as riders get to know one another and their riding style.
Great video, Russ and Laura. I'm a member of a Vermont bike club - GMBC - and they have weekly group rides from "VIP", time trial, and "Social rides" that have a more-leisurely pace. They do list an average MPH for each category of the group ride and break into smaller groups including a "no drop." I'll be in Girona next September starting a self-guided tour with VBT Bicycling Vacations but would love to do this ride and hit the food truck. Can you share the route or the name of the food truck/town? Our Girona ride heads toward Rocacorba but doesn't climb it.
Russ can you do a film about your move to Spain now that you are settled? Is it your forever place / any regrets? If you’ve already made this one I’ll shirk off to a dark corner!
I think partypace shouldn't (and does not need to) be a specific number, since everybodys abilities are different. Therefore everybodys chill pace is just different. The result is a group that splits up from time to time. In the end such a Ride has to be fun, if it is no fun, the social aspect won't work as well. And at a climb everyone has a diffrent pace that is fun for them.
The importance lies in the way the event is announced and in the way you communicate it. If you make it clear, that it is about riding together and that there are certain spots where you meet (to eat something for example) than you will automaticly cater towards people, who are there for the experience and the social aspects, rather than going fast. So everybody is willing to wait. At the same time I totally understand that it feels wierd as a organisier, if the group is splitting at times. I think that's no problem at all. Just like at a house party, it is good to have smaller groups within the big group, that's just how social interaction works. It is just important to have spots where the big group comes back together, like at the top of a climb.
Also, you are doing this for the first time, and it is totally natural that communities need time to grow together. The more often you'll do it, the less problems with pacing you'll have. People will learn to know what to expect. The ones who didn't enjoy it won't come again. The important ones will stay! Keep it up! Would love to join, but it's quite a distance from germany. Sorry for my broken english.
Wish i was there
Simply call it no-drop and its okay to have someone set the pace up front and someone in the back making sure nobody is left behind. It’s work for sure…
Off topic but do you happen to know the brand of Bullmoose bars on the GT and if he was able to get that up without shims?
Nice job hosting the group ride. Horse farms and food trucks are always a win!
I wonder if someone were tracking the real pace of the ride, or maybe collecting the pace of multiple rides, if that would help. You could say "on the last such ride we were average x speed on flat sections and y speed on climbs, with n breaks." More so that the people thinking about joining can judge if they can keep up while enjoying the ride.
Last summer I did three group rides that had very different flavors. One was an "intro to bikepacking" sponsored by a shop, 30 miles out to a county park, then two nights camping, and 30 miles back. It was well run and stuck to the stated goals and pace, keeping track of everyone. I could tell the folks who organized worked really hard. I did a typical "club" road ride which was not as nice. They claimed "no drop" but then went faster than a lot of the attendees could manage, and dropped a bunch of folks. I was able to stay with the group but it wasn't enjoyable. The main problem I think was that they didn't do what they said they were going to do, which felt sort of crappy. Finally I did a true beginners group ride which was open to anyone of almost any ability, and was purely a social ride. That was fun, but with no expectation about pace whatsoever it was pretty much impossible to keep everyone together. The organizers did a good job under the circumstances but most of the more fit people ended up bailing early just because it dragged on much longer than was announced in planning.
I guess my takeaway is to try to announce and then meet expectations. If you say it's a no-drop ride, then make it a no-drop ride, even if the faster people get cranky about that. Likewise, if it's a roughly three hour tour, make sure it doesn't become a six hour tour :-). Maybe those are contradictory? Not sure.
I don't have any experience with group rides, but maybe give an estimated time for the total trip rather than average speed. Also I think it's funny that I only found out about your channel after we both had left Missoula.
I've been leading a monthly taco ride, here in Dallas since 2015. On listing the pace, since I never know exactly who will show up and who they might bring with them, I just say that this is a no-drop ride. Sometimes folks show up with their kiddo, riding on training wheels and that's okay. We will ride no faster than our slowest rider. That does not mean that a slow rider makes everyone crawl for the entire ride. I keep it under about 14 mph and if the riders start getting strung out, we will stop every few miles and let everyone gather back up.
We have had rides where only a few riders showed up and they all wanted to ride fast. And that's okay, too.
Safety breaks are an important part of party pace, enjoy
Three useful rules:
No one will be dropped and left behind.
Head wind out, backwind home.
Coffee and cake stop at about half way.
I bet that was fun
Have people meet a half an hour before rolling out to give people a chance to socialize.
❤
Cool Vid…did you guys move to Spain?
Advertise a social pace, no drop ride.
A “social” ride in Girona is a bit out of wack when compared with any other place we’ve ever been.
Who's the woodworker from NC? Does he have social media?
www.etsy.com/shop/FatieAtkinson
pacing is so hard... maybe if there were a few more people, the pace could have been split - a faster group and a slower group. I'm definitely a slow rider, but even when biking with my family, "I" the fastest one so I usually follow and let my partner lead since he is even slower than I am.
Advertise it as a “no drop” ride
Strange you talk in miles not km in Spain. And you do not mention language used by participants. Sounds like mainly English. I am in a club in Bordeaux France where we ride for the whole day. Lunch at restaurant Thursdays in winter, picnic otherwise. We speak French. Two rides a week. Typically 80-100 km plus getting to start point. For me they are mostly 100-130 km for the day. Rule is 20-22 km/h normal pace, but average 15 km/h. Mostly there is a gpx file to follow or just follow the leader. Faster people stop and wait for slower ones. We stop when there are sights to see. Lots of conversation. No big climbs near Bx, but there are ares where climbing can add up. Mostly ashphalt. Ages 50-89. Mainly muscle power. Group size 3-20.
Pls also go metric.. The rest of the world don´t understand feet and miles so easy.
Welcome to the angst of leadership :)
Great work, looked like a super fun great outing! I would add to the suggestions a pair of radios and the back sweeper can keep in touch easier without having to call a mobile (which is also a bit more complicated with gloves versus radio, press a button and talk). I have sent a message via Instagram to see when the next ride is and I will try to join you!
¡ XLnt !