Masters of the Air: A Final Review with Chris Mowery & Jared Frederick
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- Опубликовано: 31 мар 2024
- Now that Masters of the Air has wrapped and we've had a few days to process it, we thought that we'd do a little post-series analysis with Chris Mowery of Vlogging Through History and Jared Frederick of Reel History.
It was a privilege to spend the hour with two of my favorite people on youtube! (and for those wondering, both JD and Jared are absolutely awesome people in person. What you see is what you get with them)
Likewise. Thanks for jumping on and chatting!
JD, Chris and Jared are like aligning the stars together! My favorite 3 history guys I’ve been watching for a long time!
Thanks for hosting us!
Love all three of these channels. AWESOME collaboration!
Can't wait to see your revisit of The Pacific!
They should do a series on the US Navy Submarine Force in the Pacific! The greatest amount of tonnage and the greatest percentage of losses! Yes I am Submarine Veteran!
Had a WWII Submariner Vet tell me that the submarine loss of Men was lower percentage than surface ships when you factored in the number of boats and personnel and the amount lost. Just that when a sub was lost you usually lost the whole crew.
@@stevenkaskus6173
In World War II, 52 US submarines were lost, with a total of 3,506 officers and enlisted men killed. The US Navy Submarine Service had the highest casualty percentage of any American forces in the War: about 20%.
World War II
The United States Navy Submarine Service lost 52 submarines, 374 officers and 3,131 enlisted men during World War II. These personnel losses represented 16% of the officer and 13% of the enlisted operational personnel. This loss rate was the highest among men and ships of any U.S. Navy unit.
Less than two percent of American sailors served in submarines, yet that small percentage of men and their boats sank 214 Japanese warships. This included 1 battleship, 4 large aircraft carriers, 4 small aircraft carriers, 3 heavy cruisers, 8 light cruisers, 43 destroyers, 23 large submarines and 1,178 merchant ships of more than 500 tons.
In all, U.S. submarines sank more than 55 percent of all Japanese ships sunk. More than surface ships, Navy air and the U.S. Army Air Corps combined
I was thinking the same thing and immediately thought of the book,
"Thunder Below!: The USS *Barb* Revolutionizes Submarine Warfare in World War II"
by Eugene B. Fluckey. It is a great book and story that would be more than enough material for a mini series.
@@SmedleyDouwright
I met, then Admiral Fluckey, in 2000 at the US Submarine Veterans Convention in Atlantic City, he signed my copy of his book and had a nice conversation with my wife and myself. An amazing and humble gentleman!
I love how my 3 favorite history content RUclipsrs don't view each other as competitors, but as supportive colleagues, and give us wonderful discussions like this. What a fantastic collaboration! Gentlemen, thank you, I hope y'all collaborate again in the future, this was truly excellent.
We live in a great time, where we can access information and education like this for free.
I loved the series but the Tuskegee Airmen felt tacked on. They should have their own series. One thing I really liked was how young the men looked, which is accurate.
I heard the series was supposed to be 11 episodes but Apple had it cut to 9.
Judging by how the show is structured I bet the Tuskegee Airmen were supposed to show up after the Flak House episode but the creators were forced to shorten their screen time. Personally I would've cut the Tuskegee out entirely and add more to the 100th and make a separate series for them.
There were too many mustachioed airman featured and not enough cigarette smoking. Most aircrew did not sport mustaches/facial hair as the oxygen masks they wore for long periods would cause skin irritation when contacting facial hair. Also, everyone smoked cigarettes during this period and aircrew were no exception.
Tuskegee Airmen have already had plenty of recognition honestly. For once I would like to see another fighter group on screen.
@@redaug4212 glad someone else gets it.
Of course it was tacked on in this bs age of diversity and inclusivity. I am sick and tired of hearing of them because we know its done for one reason only. All while others with greater records or loss rates are overlooked/ignored.
Great discussion from three individuals I greatly respect. I appreciate the outlook on the series.
Brilliant debrief guys and some great perspectives. I’m lucky in that my dad was a British paratrooper in WW2 so I grew up with the history around me, but there was still plenty I never knew because he simply wouldn’t talk too much about it. He was interviewed for the BBC programme Regimental Stories at Merville battery for nearly two hours, and I was stunned by some of what he said, unfortunately they only used about two minutes and refused to give me a copy of the whole interview, still angry about that. But at the end of the day, there’s a great saying that goes, Not many people get to meet their heroes, i was brought up by mine.
I'm truly grateful for this conversation. I knew a veteran who was a Captain in the Mighty 8th years ago. He was so proud of his service. I thanked him profusely for his service and sacrifice. These conversations by such learned and passionate people like JD, Chris, and Jared are continuing to give the thanks of our nation to these and all WWII veterans. Thank you all! You're all doing a great service for our veterans and our nation.
Awesome to have my 3 favorites together.
. Totally enjoyed listening to all of you. Masters of the Air was amazing. I’m with you on a series about the Navy. I had an Uncle who was on a Submarine in the North Atlantic.
Great analysis. I agree with all of it. Every episode in this series needed to be 15-20 minutes longer and definitely needed a 10th episode sprinkled between episodes 6-8. If not an 11th and 12th episode to fully flush all the side plots out. Loved the series overall as a whole though.
I loved the production. The flying scenes were very realistic. The characters were outstanding.
Outstanding discussion with my three favorite RUclipsrs. Great job, guys!
I also am enjoying Manhunt.
Thanks Chris and Jared for doing this. I love the collaborations between these channels that I love!
This series should sweep up awards. Actors, special effects & the haunting theme song. Lost count of how many times I’ve watched it.
You’re the minority
The CGI and special effects were subpar at best.
while it was good at capturing and portraying the horrors of the air war, the story and cgi was mediocre at best.
This was great. Love all three channels. Thanks for doing this! Definitely eagerly awaiting manhunt reviews from Jared! Lol
Enjoyed this session with Chris and Jared (follow both of their channels as well). One of the comments made was regarding The Pacific and having to watch it again to appreciate it. I felt the same. BoB set the bar... The Pacific was not at the same level until I watched it again and again... studying the characters. The battle scenes were among the best ever made for the small screen. The characters Sledge, Leckie etc... when they came home and the challenges they had made it more human than even BoB which I loved. Check when Sledge comes home, his mom sees him and embraces him, crying in joy, his dad ...amazing. Up at night with nightmares... Hunting scene at the end... just amazing. Leckie comes home, mom and dad cold, tired of having kids (I read)... you felt for him. The taxi driver giving him a free ride. Just great stuff. MoA did not let you get into the characters per say at that level. Only Rosie you got to really know intimately and to an extent Crosby. It went a bit too fast and so many additional stories could have been told as they were in BoB and The Pacific that were left out of MoA. If I was to rank them... and yes Jared and Chris I will watch MoA again and again... Gold: BoB, Silver: The Pacific, Bronze: MoA.
I loved Masters of the Air. I didn’t want it to end, I wish they had a few more episodes. I enjoyed it more than the Pacific, but it’s second to Band of Brothers. And I agree with Jared, now we need a mini series on the Navy during WWII.
I thought Nate’s portrayal of Rosie and the things he experienced was exceptional! I loved ALL the actors portraying these roles and yes, I had a girl’s crush on Austin Butler. I was delighted to discover how cosmopolitan Callum Turner is in reality. Such a FINE group of young actors!
Thanks for the post Guys. I would have made a few more episodes which more deeply explored the contributions of the Tuskegee Airmen. I’m a 70+ white grandmother. I believe they were ALL HEROS.
Great job, just finished the Masters of the Sky series and this discussion was very entertaining and informative. Thank you and l look forward to more of the same!
THIS was a great collaborative interview!
Great discussion, Gentleman. I appreciate the knowledge all three of you brought to the table.
When it was said that the three series are art and should be viewed on their own artistic style vs. comparing them I found very profound. Art affects us emotionally, and when you view BoB from an emotional standpoint, it will always "win". First, it came out at a time where patriotism was in an upswell after 9/11, that was very emotional at a national level. Second, the lead in interviews where no names were given and you got emotionally involved trying to connect the veteran with the actor. On top of that we've now had 20+ years to watch that series many times which will bring us back to that emotionally nostalgic period where, as a Nation, we were pulling together for a time.
The Pacific came out years into what was becoming an unpopular war and showed a brutality that we honestly did not want to believe people were capable of. It didn't have the emotional lead in hook of veterans and just laid bare the brutality of the Pacific campaigns. Maybe it mirrored the news headlines of the time a bit too closely to garner our emotional investment. I didn't care for it the first time either, but as mentioned, follow on viewings allow you to view it more objectively and appreciate the effort put into the series.
I don't know yet how Masters will measure up in the long run. As an aviation history nut, I did enjoy it, but I also grew up watching the Baa Baa Blacksheep TV series whose historical accuracy was limited to that they were in the right ocean. Despite the fiction that it was, it did set up my aviation journey. This summer I'll be spending a couple weeks touring with Commemorative Air Force bombers, I'm looking forward to seeing how much Masters will do to inspire curiosity in the public about the the men and machines.
Agree with all your points.
Time to start rewatching Masters of the Air, then!
The Tuskagee inclusion was clearly a diversity box tick enforced by the production company, just look at the promo poster with three of the six faces shown being Tuskagee pilots. There were hundreds of fighter squadrons, dozens of which operated with 100th out of the UK, but the Tuskagee guys weren't part of that.
I would argue the comparison element comes from the fact that people expected a certain style of storytelling from Playtone/Amblin based on BoB and they threw us something of a curve changing storytelling styles from series to series. The three separate focal points of the Pacific was a departure from that original format for sure. In Masters of the Air, as Chris points out, attrition in the air war was a barrier to a cohesive, linear style of Band of Brothers storytelling. We also meet Buck and Bucky well into their military careers as they are already majors, not trainees as in BoB.
To make a comparison, when I watch a Ken Burns series I expect a Ken Burns-style of storytelling every time, of course with some adaptations as necessary, but a common, familiar, stylistic cohesion that binds the many, varied, collective works over a thirty-year career.
I'd argue too that the fact many of the Easy Company men--and Stephen Ambrose, were alive, present, and involved is a distinctive element not present in the latter two works.
That being said, the Tuskegee episode was really a non sequitur. They deserve their own series, but that episode seemed out of place since it had nothing to do with the original premise of the Eighth Air Force. I'm sure this was more of a political than cinematic decision at some level.
Unauthorized History of the Pacific War podcast has a RUclips channel and had covered Masters of the Air as well
I was really surprised the second Schweinfurt raid wasn’t covered. I was thinking the 100th was on that raid. And Black Thursday was a book i grew up reading.
I enjoyed the entire series, and I didn’t mind the Tuskeege guys. I think it was amazing they were included. If anyone is in the general area of Connecticut, the New England Air Museum just opened a jaw dropping exhibit on them.
This has been a fantastic year for History in the media for me. MoA and Shogun being aired at similar times, tying in two of my favorite subjects in history has been such a treat. If Apple were to come to me for a series, I'd probably propose a 442nd RCT story fitting of their exploits. That needs to be done.
Desperately need a series about USS Enterprise. With of course the naval battles that didnt involve her like around Guadalcanal and the Battle of the Surigao Strait and The Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors
I did the same thing, immediately went to see if Jared had his analysis yet. I read Crosby’s book prior to the series, it provided insight into some of the characters.
I truly loved band of Brothers and the Pacific and both movies should not be compared to masters of the air which I thought, for the most part was done very well unlike the other two series, the first six episodes of masters of the air really brought me to tears
The scene with the escort fighters for the first time was incredible. Changed how films were made. Tracers from 1000 planes.
I have to admit that I found the documentary "Bloody Hundreth", which was shown right after MoA, a bit better than series. I wish they had integrated parts of the documentary into the series.
To your point about Band of Brothers and at what point everybody watched the series. I was there from the very release. They released episodes 1 and 2 on the same night, to kick off the series. There was no damn way I was missing that. I got an HBO subscription SPECIFICALLY for that show. I was present for every episode after, every week (on Sunday night, I believe it was) until the very end. I couldn't sleep after episodes 1 and 2, I was so blown away by what I just watched. I was very sad at episode 10, for about a week leading up to the airing, until a few days past it. I did the same for The Pacific, as well. I didn't feel the same kinda ways about the Pacific as I did for BoB but, I still appreciated it for what it was.
Love these channels from the hosts here but masters of the air I felt like we learned very little about 3000 story lines all at once.
For me personally not enough focus on anything properly. The combat scenes were exciting for a whole 20 seconds while they lasted.
I never felt vested in the show or felt like I wanted to know more about them because of the little they spent on a lot of each story.
I know some love the show and love how Elvis was in it but for me it just didn’t keep me going like band of brothers and the pacific did.
I’m sure you guys have already seen it, but Greyhound(also with Tom Hanks) is a pretty good WWII naval movie.
"Greyhound" is a very underrated film.
Yes Greyhound is very good. I had a talk with a US Navy veteran in Normandy in 2022 and he said that it was the most accurate movie he had ever seen about the naval warfare during WW2.
My suggestion for a ship to focus on would be the USS South Dakota. In MANY battles, landings/invasions from virtually the beginning to the very end. It would be the ultimate US Navy coverage.
I'd compare the Tuskegee airmen inclusion in the series as to getting 1 bite of ice cream. The bite was wonderful and I was glad I had it, but I feel teased. I don't want 1 bite, I want a bowl of ice cream. Giving me the 1 bite distracted from what I was doing.
the 16ish minute mark where they call out the movie memphis belle is spot on. I actually did a review of the movie when in school but didnt have access to the resources we have now. I was livid when I learned the truth later and how much it was hollywood nonsense.
It's the Three Musketeers!
Very nice
I love Band of Brothers but I connected more with The Pacific mainly because it came out when I was in the Marine Corps. Masters of the Air is a great series but I don't compare them, to me they are all separate stories of the men and their experiences. I know my experiences are vastly different from others in the GWOT as it was for all veterans. Each units stories and their experiences are their own. But that's just me.
If they do another series on the civil war I would say follow Hazen's Brigade though the Western theatre specifically the 41st Ohio. They fought in most of the major engagements in that theatre form Shiloh onward. If it were WW1 I would say follow the 2nd Infantry Division/Marine Brigade or the Harlem Hell Fighters.
If There is New Show to be Done, I would want to see either of 1st Big Red One Division or 28th US Infanteri Division both Units Saw lots of Action, but the Big Red One has one been in one Old 90s movie & Stared into few Games as I recall. of we are talking about WW2. What Would be Intresting for the US Navy is to follow as they Mention USS. Enterprise CVN Story from outset of Pearl Harbor to the End. if Neither of these? Iron Brigade Civil War Mini Series? heck Yes Please!.
Tuskegee Airmen didn’t make sense to me. This is about the 100th bomb group and the 8th Air Force. They deserve their own show. I think maybe they were sending out feelers for a new series.
I was wondering if you could do me a favor. I’m trying to think of the name of this site presented by a Dutch guy. I believe who takes pictures from 1944-45 and then finds the locations and shows the exact same location today. Could you please tell me the name of that guys site so I can subscribe to it? Thanks much.
SanderVk History
Enjoyed this discussion, guys! My WWII next Spielberg/Hanks series of choice would be the Phippines. It could involve all the services, including the initial attack by the Japanese, the sirrender, death martch gorilla operation, pow experience, and the liberation. Of course, Im partial. My dad was there for that war, and I was later stationed there in the Navy. But just think of all the source material.
But this is Spielberg production, shouldn't we expect more. In fact using CGI should allow the production to get it right. It just shows the historical production was not up to a high standard.
Thank you for the comment about about the Tuskegee airmen. While their contribution to the war should not be forgotten, the inclusion of the segment IMHO was simply virtue signaling and out of historical context. Can't someone in the US produce any movie or series now that doesn't include virtue signaling?
We need a movie where Jimmy Doolittle is played by Tom Cruise. The raid on Tokyo was 2% of his accomplishments
BATTLE 360!!! WATCH BATTLE 360!!
You guys are toooo kind. Overall I give it B-. Comes off not too realistic compared to THE PACIFIC, and better compared to BAND OF BROTHERS. I thought human story of the crews was A. Authenticity of air combat C+. Much of this due to the nature of air combat (bombers) in ETO vs. ground combat in PTO (Pacific), or ETO (band of brothers).
I actually binge watched masters of the air as I waited till all episodes were out then did a free trial as I wasnt going to give apple money. They did some things well, others not so well. I love ww2 history so knew about of alot of it which is why I was so disgusted by the inclusion of the redtails when it had no place.
If they did something on the civil war it needs to be accurate not the union revisionist crap that is taught most places.
Following the grey ghosts exploits would be wonderful. Or the submarine service as they are often overlooked.
Umm.. When do they start talking about the topic, Masters of the Air?
Patience! 😂
I would wager the 332nd inclusion was a political dictate by those controlling the funding. Be thankful they weren’t supplying fighter cover for the 100th. I think the assessment is correct with too many story elements that were compromised by not reaching fruition with continuity becoming fractured.
Veteran interviews were accomplished. They may have been lost .
The people behind Masters (and Saving Private Ryan, and Band of Brothers, and The Pacific) were criticized for completely whitewashing the fact that there were no blacks anywhere within the first three (Saving Private Ryan, and Band of Brothers, and The Pacific) stories, this went someway in trying to correct that exclusion.
Personally, if I was going to remake Masters of the Air from scratch, I'd start by completely eliminating the character of Westgate, and take the time she's on screen and rededicate it to the Tuskegee Airmen. And actually, I'd like to see ANOTHER series focused on two (or perhaps three) different Fighter Groups, one would be the 99th Fighter Squadron/332nd Fighter Group (the Tuskegee Airmen) and another Fighter Group which flew out of England (the third, if included would be a Fighter Group with the 15th Air Force like the 332nd Fighter Group) which both talked about their individual combat experiences as Fighter Groups and would also talk about the treatment of the different units.
If there was going to be a follow-up to Band/Pacific/Masters, I would select three; the Iron Brigade in the Civil War, the 1st Infantry Division at Cantigny in World War One (where I would very much avoid talking about the Marines, who provided only 2 of the roughly 160 Infantry Regiments [more or less] which saw combat during that war), and then I would focus on a (possibly fictional) destroyer in the Pacific during World War Two. Why fictional? What I would do is to take the adventures of several real destroyers and combine them into a single story. Ship Number one would be followed through 1941-1942, ship number two would be followed through 1943, and ship number three would be followed through 1944-1945. The reason being is that as newer destroyers were introduced, the older destroyers were more and more relegated to farther and farther behind the action. By following more than one ship, but using a single set and a single cast you can see what Navy Destroyers got up to during the war.
Ohh, I forgot, I would also add at least one additional episode, showing the Shuttle Bombing Missions involving the Russians as well.
Not exactly Band of Brothers. As a fan of WWII aviation, I was really excited when I heard Speilberg and Hanks were making this series. However, the storyline was doomed from the beginning. The script was so disjointed I couldn't believe Speilberg signed off on it. Halfway through it was also as if they changed directors. Not withstanding the overdone CGI, poor casting and acting, we didn't sign on for long scenes in a prisoner of war camp. There was no discussion about the command structure or reasons for targets other than some quick references in the briefings. I could go on, but suffice it to say this was a disaster.
A carrier based series would be terrific, then you get ship warfare and air. But I feel like it would be a flop like the newer Midway and Devotion, both terrible.
16:51 I greatly disagree with the CGI failure to correctly show the B17G after 1944 It a huge blow to accuracy from a combat stand point . Leading many normies to believe that the USAAF Command sent bomber crew after 1944 in under armed sitting duck B17F not caring about the aircrew lives when that is clearly not the case . With the B17 gunship EXPERIMENTS that led to B17 G , better box formations and shift to Pathfinder led area bombing and fighting for long range fighter escorts to the target and back. The correct B17G CGI was needed for Accuracy and is a VERY VALID KNOCK ON THE SERIES.
Large amounts of it were a bit too mumbly and just a bit tedious. They needed to develop the characters a bit more efficiently.
Gentlemen, listening to your conversation it got me thinking… Maybe it’s just me… but why does it seem to me that the entire story of the war in the Pacific seem to only receive a tiny fraction of of the telling of that history and story that the European theater does? It seems like we all know about Pearl and the US being dragging into the war… but other than the atomic bombs… there seems to be almost zero telling of the story of the Pacific and almost less then zero of the telling of the history of the campaigns in North Africa…
From my own perspective with the channel, those places are exponentially more difficult to reach.
@@TheHistoryUnderground I remember reading about Midway as a small child… but other than that and Pearl… It just seems like that whole entire half of the war is just missed for some reason. I can see the difficulty from the channel aspect.
G'day JD. I know your plans last year got rudely interrupted. Do you have any plans to return to Biblical sites?
Definitely
Just make more war movies! a
We lost 25 min of time revealing a man was cheating on his wife. Didn’t understand why you would disrespect a veteran and his family like that. That was criminal to me. Think about that man’s wife, children and grandchildren. The story with her went nowhere
He wrote about it in his own book on the war, which was one of the main sources for the series. I don't see how it's disrespectful to include a story he wrote about himself.
If the man himself wrote about it, how is that criminal. Odds are, his wife knew about it well before he wrote that book. By this same logic you would also disapprove of the mention of Nixon "looking up a certain young lady" in episode 5 of Band of Brothers
Absolutely terrible production. Wooden actors, spouting wooden dialogue. Twelve O' Clock High, starring Gregory Peck (1946) remains the "Gold Standard." These kid writers today know nothing but then neither do the viewers, so I guess it breaks even.
What can we expect when they used a voice actress from Peppa Pig to write an episode of MotA.
12 o’clock High is terrific !!
Im still disgusted they insisted on including the tuskeegee airmen in this. They had NOTHING to do with the 100th and it is absurd they were included as it was done for one reason only. They already get far too much credit and exposure than they deserve, while other units with greater records or losses are ignored.
The series was ok in showing the horrors of the air war. However out of the three it is my least favorite.
Jared I often like your views but at the 33 minute mark where you praise the inclusion of the tuskeegee nonsense is ABSURD. It was HARDLY admirable and im starting to question your impartiality of things and wondering if you arent interjecting your views into things which is sad.
It was good to bring attention to the air war, but was a complete flop for anyone who knows even a little of the daylight bombing campaign. It was a terrible series and not worth the long wait.
Get real dudes. They were NEVER going to do any Red Tail series on this. Wake up!! This is America!! Lol. It was very necessary to include them in this series because they were never going to make a series on their own. LOL. And you guys know that!!
What a load of babble.
@@TheSocratesian Ha! you should know caucasian (white guy in case you're confused) outta here.
@@MikeyRumi180Whatever the fcuk that means. You and your ignorant, tiny little mind have a nice evening.
Tuskegee Airmen trilogy, 1995 Tuskegee Airmen movie and Red Tails. I think the Tuskegee Airmen have been fairly represented on screen.
@@MikeyRumi180 you're kinda up your own ass with the nonsensical and confrontational babbling here.
Historically inaccurate.
I wish they showed more of the red tails and their involvement. They've never been well represented on film. Loved Masters of the Air.
Just finished reading Luck of the Draw, 2023 edition and I feel Frank Murphy was done dirty by MotA, especially as they brought his family to the set and relegated him to a background blink-and-you-miss-him appearance.
If I got to choose another series like BoB that they could make, I'd choose the story of the Dambusters. I think that would make for a great series and it's a shame that Peter Jackson won't get to make his movie on them.