From what I've been able to gather from Google searching my ass off, is that Scorsese/The Film Foundation funded and did work and research to restore the film from Paramount's negative, with L'Immagine Ritrovata doing most of the work in 2007 and from that they made an internegative. The Film Foundation has their own print from that internegative but Paramount owns that internegative. From what I read, Scorsese fought to have certain scenes that had been cut in '68 put back in but Paramount only did a few. He really had no say on anything past restoring the film from the negative he got from Paramount. He's not allowed to change anything or add anything on his own because Paramount owns that footage. Saying he approved of the 4K is marketing bullshit so that his name appears on all the advertisement for this release. He approved the restoration, not this 4K or any home video release. Maybe when they merge with Skydance they can get new people in there that actually care about the studio catalog.
I haven't seen the downloaded version and the improvement, whilst physical media collectors are short-changed. Strange times indeed. I've been looking forward to this review since Paramount announced the films 4K release.
Looking forward to the vid my dude. I went and re-bought the old two disc dvd recently just to make my own comparisons. Its a shame that it cant just be done right once. But looking forward to the breakdown.
I like that you have screenshots in this video. I guess your older ones didn't have examples like this, you were just talking, but now, you're showing what you're talking about, and it helps so much!
@@Saturn2888 early on I didn’t have any images and then figured out an overall methodology of making screen caps for discussion points. It takes a lot of time as I usually take hundreds for each film and then layer them into a video but I think it’s well worth it.
It’s insane that they put this on a 66gb disc. I would have bought this, even with all the other issues. Surely it cannot be saving them any real amount of money by not doing a proper 100gb disc.
FIM would put it on 50 GB for Arrow and it would look fantastic. Look at their 25GB Indiactor blurays vs the 50GB kino or US releases. Paramount are just incompetent morons.
I'm really grateful that you're taking the time to do lengthy, thoughtful critiques of some of these new releases -- as there's clearly a growing backlash to holding the companies making these releases to account (another channel released a video last week basically bemoaning the fact that "so many people are criticizing 4K UHD titles -- just buy a DVD if you don't like it!") and especially because industry figures who know better (like Robert Harris) have basically given fully into revisionist and/or "modernized" (i.e. grain scrubbed) transfers and have stopped offering any meaningful insight or analysis. Harris's full-blown rave about this specific title is embarrassing (as is his recent defense of the James Cameron 4K trio).
Have you ever considered doing a dedicated home video history of Leone? His films are so complicated in terms of their home video history that having one go-to video breaking down what the best release(s) of each film are would be incredibly helpful. Not just for big Leone fans like me, but also for newcomers who may not know any better. I can’t think of one director who has more flawed home media releases then Leone (with the exception of special cases such as Lucas or Cameron) You did sorta give a brief 30 second burst at the end speeding through all of his films, but a more in depth breakdown would be a great resource to point people towards
Yes and I’ve done a separate one just for OUATITW. Each film requires a separate video just like every Bond film does. I basically did early versions of that kind of video in my reviews of the Dollars trilogy Kino UHDs. I included the end short cliff notes version in this video just because it popped in my head at the moment of recording.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader gotcha! Yeah a video per film probably would be the best way of going about the topic. Especially for Duck You Sucker, that home video history is going to be a nightmare. It seems that film can never catch a break, and it’s been over 50 years of this! Anyways, great video! My 2011 blu lives to see another day. I’ve watched that thing so much that tbh I’ve grown fond of the semi desaturated look, even if it isn’t the most historically accurate
@@tinypurplefishes2903 i’ve been planning one on duck you sucker for a long time, but I’m trying to finish my documentary on once upon a Time in the west having problems first as the DYS one is going to be extremely more complicated. And because I have to use so many clips in these I never know if there’s going to be anywhere I can actually post them.
I wish studios would just scan their archive movies from the best source at the rawest size, whether that be a new 2K, 4K, 6K or higher. Then give the new scan to someone who cares to restore. If DNR is that important to some studios why don't they pay for the affect to be an option on streaming or on players, where the movie watcher, (if they insanely wish) can select "DNR" alongside Dolby Vision and so on. Essentially the James Cameron Mode 😂
Wish there were people like you in supervision of restoration efforts in cinema. The old companies seems to take a dump on their own back catalog, while independent ones like Criterion and Eureka are the ones with the heart in the right place
Thank you for taking another bullet for us, no pun intended. The fact that so many other reviewers are calling this a “fantastic release,” with “incredible depth” and “detail for miles,” makes me feel like the physical media equivalent of a tinfoil hat-wearing nutcase. That’s why watching your honest and incredibly thorough reviews has become essential in me maintaining my sanity. I also had no idea that Once Upon a Time in the West has had such a deeply troubled release history, and that Leone’s original cut of the film was disappeared by Paramount in 1968. That’s nothing short of a crime against the arts.
Every Leone film has problems and a long history of revisions that studios never take the time to iron out. This video is basically a cliff notes version of my frustrations and research done over years.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader Watching your videos has made me far more cognizant of how owning multiple editions of certain films is not only important from a preservationist standpoint, but essential if one is to grasp the full scope of a film’s technical as well as artistic merit. The fact that all of Leone’s films are plagued with the same revisionist troubles is unfortunate, to say the least, and in a perfect world it would be an industry-wide priority to see his original Italian and American versions be reconstructed down to their last frames - and also remastered properly, of course. Until then, I think I’ll just go hunting for the Laserdiscs instead, as there’s no way I’m spending my money on Paramount’s most recent physical media botch-job.
@@Cinemaniac76 unfortunately that’s the honest truth and that means we all have to wind up stockpiling all kinds of different releases of the same film across different formats because of dumb stuff like this. I wind up researching every film I even think about watching or rewatching. Definitely pick up the widescreen laser disc if you can. It’s still got the baked in problems of the 1984 reconstruction but the audio is by far, BY FAR the best mono there is. If you like seeing vintage prints projected in theaters it’s also pretty cool because they just did a new transfer of a 1984 print so it has the changeover cues and a little bit of wear with yet another approach to the color timing but honestly, it’s the most enjoyable to watch video version I have when I watch it on my laserdisc set up.
Your intro and outro and voices of all the characters had me laughing as hard as your Don La Fontaine voiceovers of the Hardy Boys Casefiles. Thank you for the laughs!
Thanks for confirming that! I’ve read reports of people and some critics doing the same, which is why I included it in the review. But the fact that it’s 30 gigs larger alone speaks volumes. Of course the download version is HDR 10 only so you don’t get the Dolby Vision of the disc because they had to find some way to even make the download version screwy.😂
Does figure. Obviously, Paramount wants you to stream the better version over buying the inferior 4K. That way, a new customer has been converted. Bye, physical.
Many thanks for your creative review! Lots of fun balanced by solid facts. I’m 72 and saw OUATITW in its first run in theatres in Toronto, Canada. To my recollection, it was the complete original English version of the film. In the early 1970s, I managed to purchase this English version in its entirety on Super 8 sound film (10 reels) in a beautiful colour Pan and Scan version. I still have it. I remember thinking at the time, that the colour balance was just as I remembered it in the theatre, which was better than any subsequent home video release I’ve seen, including the new 4K. I can verify that it contains the complete opening scene with “cracking knuckles” and extended “water dripping on hat” and “fly on face” sequences, and, most importantly, it contains the original ending with Morricone’s beautiful finale music playing uninterrupted in its entirety, adding to the film’s moving conclusion. The music, “Addio Cheyenne” plays over the Paramount logo after the film ends. Also, the short scene with Harmonica reviving after being shot in the train station shootout is gone, of course, since it was reinstated into the film versions much later. There’s no freeze frame anywhere in my version, and there’s natural film grain throughout. Also, many of Leone’s detailed sound effects are present, which have unfortunately, been subsequently removed in the home video versions. So, to my knowledge, everything you’ve reported jives with my experience, and I have the film print to back it up. Thanks again for your detailed and accurate analysis. For anyone interested, there is a brand new 50th anniversary remaster of Morricone’s awesome score released by Screen Archives in a Limited Edition on CD in March 2024, with slip cover and perks, which sounds the most musical of any of the older releases, entitled, “C’era Una Volta Il West”.
Holy moly that’s fantastic!!! Does your print have the spinning title at the end or is it the original title that comes in and disappears in a more static fashion with the credit starting later like the foreign print versions? Your print goes along with what the old video watchdog article said about most prints and even TV prints turned up that were completely uncut and reflected the original 1968 release version.
Hi DFIC, thank you for your response! To answer your question: All prints I’ve seen, from 1968 onward, have had the spinning main title, including my Super 8 film, which was described as a ”complete and uncut” print at the time of purchase. Thus, I’ve never seen any Euro prints, although I have a dim recollection of seeing the same spinning title in Italian (C’era Una Volta Il West) many years ago… a Euro trailer? What additional footage exists in the European prints that differs from the original, uncut North American prints? In addition to you revealing many of the 4K mistakes, I’m saddened that newer generations of film enthusiasts will never experience the original version that Leone intended, with the true colour, and the myriad of different sound effects that pepper the original mono soundtrack, whose inclusion Leone delighted in, and is one of his directorial trademarks. Just to give one example, in the tense scene at the way station, where Cheyenne confronts the hapless bystander who attempts to stop him during his confrontation with Harmonica, the man makes a series of gasping sounds when he’s forced to his feet by Cheyenne. The sounds create a visceral stress in these close-up shots, creating character, and are completely removed in the home video versions I’ve seen, including the new 4K. And this is only one example... Virtually all these subtle sounds, throughout the film, are removed from existing versions! Even the “original mono” soundtrack on the new 4K is the same, and I suspect Paramount just “monofied” their revised 5.1 track. Regardless, it is not the original mono track as existing in my print! Restoration indeed. What we sacrifice for perfect sound quality nowadays… it might sound pristine, but can lack character. What are they removing in the process? The current 4K’s colour is slightly too reddish, even though it’s the closest colour rendering to my print on home video thus far. Personally, I’m furious that I had to spend over $90 CAD to buy the new 4K. I agree with you to stick with the Blu-ray, or better still, the original DVD! I wish I’d just stuck with my iTunes streaming copy. A “shinier” version is not always “better”. Also, I find it hard to believe that a film enthusiast like Martin Scorsese could pass this current restoration. I bought the 4K on his recommendation. Unfortunately, as good of a filmmaker he is, I’ll think twice about his recommendations in the future...
@@akatanaka1 I think Scorsese only supervised the 2007 work and their use of his name is a misnomer. The mono mix sounds best on the 1994 LD even though it’s the 1984 version. The difference is night and day to the processed lossy mono on all modern releases and leads me further to believe those might be a folddown of the 5.1 remix. I’m working on an edits and revision history documentary and am trying to recreate the opening and closing as intended. The closing on the very first prints is supposed to have the title credit appear just before the credit scroll over the end of the long shot just as it appears in Italian and German prints. There were several versions paramount made between 1968 and 1971 which confuses everything further. The first reconstruction was in 1973 and had one of the screwed up ending versions. Outside of the 1968 first prints and foreign versions all paramount iterations are missing 1-2 minutes from the opening sequence which really makes it feel more complete. The 2011 Blu-ray only put back one moment of two shots and this morning I noticed it even managed to be missing a sound effect of Jack Elam’s character’s fingers tapping the holster!
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader Looking forward to your reconstruction of the beginning and end of OUATITW! Not too much Foley work involved... for the ending, maybe "folding in" the music on the train whistle, and replacing the sound of a single galloping horse behind the already in sync Finale music... If I had more room on my computer, I'd restore the whole thing myself, as I did for the much maligned HD home video versions of 1958's Gothic masterpiece, HORROR OF DRACULA (another "cursed" title on Blu-ray!) using the original Warner HD master. The thing of it is, as physical media film enthusiasts, we shouldn't have to do that!
@@akatanaka1 oh cool you did some fan work on HoD! That film has gone through soooo much trouble on video. I’ve been able to make a pretty passable audio track for the ending by using the folded soundtrack cues and the source audios. I’m mixing them together to try and keep the few bits of effects and match it with the correct music. What isn’t so easy is that none of the sources are exactly the same and some are missing frames so I’m trying to correct for that. But I’ve got it pretty close which is surprising! I’m waiting on a copy of the old Italian Blu-ray to get here which some have said has an Italian mono track that does have the correct ending music, which would make everything much easier so I’ll have to check that out.
@Damn Fool Idealistic Crusader loved your nearly two hour angry rant! The “prologue” was hilarious and in the vein of the subject. Throughout the entire rant I hear and see your anger and frustration. If only Paramount spend as much time researching their work the way you do we would have way way better 4K discs of The Godfather and this masterpiece. The big problem is that corporate f@cks at companies like Paramount don’t care. They simply don’t care and will pass the critique off as “uninformed” or no knowlegde of 4K transfers. Same thing happens with vinyl mastering the past decade. For example Rolling Stones Deluxe “Abbey Road” 45RPM half speed masters sold at a high price that sound absolutely horrendous compared to the original albums. The sad state of corporate companies ruining what we all love and cherish including music and film.
Im glad i cancelled my pre-order. It like all food the fake coloring, flavors, preservatives, flavor enhancers in our food....cheap n nasty and Low cost high profits..... Unfortunately young Gen only know CGI films and computer game graphics. Grain haters prefer that fake look , and want DNR, scrubbing, and sharp waxy, glossy look with fake color pallet. Success of these new scrubbed releases (such as Alien 4k) will open door for more crap.
I just realiser that I love your channel now. I have the DVD and Blu-Ray of this film, but now I will hint down the Laserdisc as well. I cant believe how quite a few channels praise the UHD release?! They also like the new James Cameron releases so I really dont know what they are all about. DNR certainly is the big Satan to me. Cheers for your rant. From Dani from Norway.
Giving this video a thumbs up, even though it's packed with one disappointing titbit after another. Anyhoo, thanks for the intel. I definitely won't be buying this trash.
It’s honestly pretty sad to see how mistreated these movies have been now that we’ve seen most Leone’s big movies reviewed by you. I’ve loved the dollars trilogy since I was a kid; and as I’ve gotten older I have developed a great love and appreciation for Once upon a time, so it always breaks my heart to see how in dire straits all of Leones films are. Hopefully like GBU, another home video label can get another pass at this film like kino did (in a perfect world it should probably be Indicator) and try to get this film as close as possible to how it was originally presented or before all of the diabolical paramount “corrections” were made. Thank you for your insight and if I can I’ll try and grab the blu-ray as I only have one of the DVD releases from back in the day
WOW sounds like the Blu-ray is better than the 4k. 😔 Hopefully Sony will get a hold of it and give it the respect it deserves. Gosh this upsets me. I love this movie and was hoping to buy it. Thank you for your review.
I have the 2 disc DVD from 2003. Is there any point upgrading? I'm guessing the 4K disc isnt worth the money 😅. The DVD only has the 5.1. audio, however.
@@astracax definitely get the 2011 BD which will be a big upgrade over the dvd and is cheap. The UHD is a tough choice as I don’t think it’s worth it at all.
Paramount really deserves all the harsh criticism. The quality of Paramount's restorations, and even more so their encoding, is a coin toss at best! It doesn't matter if the film is a big classic or not, there is no criteria whether Team-A or Team-B will be responsible for a disc! Paramount has given far less significant films far better transfers and encodes! After all this deserved outrage at Paramount, I hope that the next 4K blu-ray review can be of something far more positive by comparison! Personally, I hope for a review of The Alfred Hitchcock Classics Collection Volume 1. Do you know about the recent UHD of The Italian Job that Paramount released in the UK? Unbelieavably enough, it has better encoding and color timing than the Kino UHD, which you reviewed! On the other hand, the Paramount UHD loses the mono!
Yeah, I’ve really had it with Paramount to be honest. That’s what I’ve been hearing about the UK UHD of The Italian Job which is extremely frustrating and also baffling at the same time.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusaderAlso, Europe is getting some Paramount UHDs with far better encodes. Generally in Italy and Spain if I'm not mistaken, in cases when the original UHD didn't have these languages. The UHD of The Truman Show from Italy is a vast improvement. The transfer is quite good, but the US UHD has really bad encoding. People are already making lists of Paramount UHDs for some reason getting far better encodes in some european countries! Whatever are the people in charge of those european UHDs should be promoted to encode the american UHDs too!
@@matheus5230 some from the last batch of turned up with macro blocking throughout and despite seeming to have high rates when you first check them, apparently they only have half that. It doesn’t fully surprise me, though as more and more, I keep finding small spots of encoding problems on archive discs.
I guess you’ve long known that none of these major companies, aside from maybe Warner Archive, will ever send you a “review copy”, and I would count that as a badge of honor. Another great and entertaining review, yet very disappointing!
I get that take and honestly it’s still a bit of a hard choice as you have to decide between the overprocessed compressed version from a technically better scan with color timing improvements or the more hands off color deficient 2011 Blu-ray, which doesn’t have all of the intensive processing applied. But either choice is still the compromised Paramount edit missing footage, including footage not supposed to be there, the 40 year old end screwup and no audio restoration.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader For certain. Whilst tremendously disappointed, I refuse to get furious (regardless of how justified that might actually be). It's certainly counterproductive to my wants, I would prefer to be bummed as opposed to incensed. In that I really don't expect a better version to be forthcoming, I'll tolerate the problems. Primarily because I already spent the cash. But I'll wait on Chinatown, in that it's a top 20 flick to me & I won't stand for serious, serious errors on that. As always: Love the passion & insight, best reviewer on the RUclips
@@daveanderson4600 There is a better version coming - the Italian company Eagle Pictures is putting one out later this year. They've confirmed they're using the same transfer but they're going to use a BD-100 disc for a start and they've heard the criticisms of the Paramount release, so hopefully they'll correct at least some of the other issues. The word on Chinatown is that it's a beautiful restoration.
@@daveanderson4600 I understand that. That was me for ages but this OUATITW UHD is definitely the last Paramount straw for me. I expect Chinatown to at least have some issues but thankfully we already know that at the very least it won't have the giant compression issues found here.
The 2011 BD has the newer master which is improved and adds back about 20 seconds of footage. The extras are ported over from the dvd but it adds the HD trailer. I would recommend picking it up as it is a big improvement over the DVD.
Dear DFIC, Thank you for your desire to get movies right. And thank you for all your info! I would not have gotten this anywhere else. In this your heartbreaking review you have given much information about this movie. Here is a question for you. I have always thought that the original (at least American) movie poster was super cool but that it was not balanced. Morton ( the railroad magnet) should also be on the same side as Frank with Jill in the middle and then Harmonica and Cheyenne on other side of Jill. Morton is a big part of the movie and it seems there would be space there to place him with Frank. In fact, it has always felt to me that he was probably there originally and was airbrushed out by an American distributor. The tag lines about "One Man to...etc." are not really faithful to the movie either and I thought they were probably placed there by American move reps. Does anybody know if there is an Italian or any other country that had s picture of Morton standing alongside Frank (Henry Fonda) in any other country? Just a question that I've always had. I think Morton is important and a great character. It would make this movie poster legendary. I know the actor who plays Morton was quite popular in Italy so maybe they kept him on the poster there? I do not know if your film expertise extends to even movie posters. But I thought I would give it a shot.
Thank you! That’s a good point that Morton really isn’t on any of the original artwork that I am aware of. Most of the US and international posters were using some form or a section of Frank McCarthy‘s amazing iconic key art from the US one sheet, but even the different foreign posters were usually of the other main stars or a poster using stylized stills. I agree the US tagline on the posters is on the generic side and doesn’t really fit the film exactly. That was probably one factor in the film’s poor box office performance on the General release in the US that the marketing didn’t necessarily grab people.
Well...haha, Paramount strikes again.. I can't wait to see what they do to Chinatown..which doesn't even give you an option of a 4k scanned bluray, just a bonus disk of a sequel noone cared about..Paramount Presents, deseceators of art
What do you think of Robert Harris defense of Aliens and True Lies 4K that was Peter Jacksoned ? It's all I've thought of asking you. Frankly I thought it was bizarre.
@@TucoRope2Tight My feeling is that he's doing a high-wire act at this point -- internally he must know this is not good but so many filmmakers (Lucas, Cameron) who have real power are leaning into revisionist home video releases that he doesn't want to piss them off (and jeopardize future employment opportunities?) that he's going out on a limb to try to appease them. It's an ugly development -- and it essentially means that his public opinions going forward are going to be less insightful and reliable.
@@matthewgaudet4064 He also went very easy on the disastrous UHD of American Graffiti last year so I suspect it's more the filmmakers he's tiptoeing around, not any one studio -- that's my guess but we won't know for sure.
Another day, another classic ruined by a crap remaster thanks to studio incompetence and typical lack of quality control. And they said 4K was the best these films are going to ever look..... yeah right.
I too believe that the Martin Scorsese approval note is referencing the previous photochemical restoration and not this current 4k master. Its misleading and a marketing gimmick. Anyone following Scorsese's home video efforts of late would know that Scorsese is no longer personally approving masters of his own films, having his longtime editer Thelma Schoonmaker do it on his behalf. Even for films she was not originally involved with! Its pretty frustrating when I see other reviewers who get way more traffic than this channel who appear to be underwhelmed by this new 4k but then say, "but if Scorsese approved it who am I to say otherwise?" 🙄 Nothing like a critic without gumption. Thanks for taking the bullet on this one. Im going to wait until a cheaper version arrives. I got burned on the 48 Hrs 4k. Knew it instantly when the film started on that chain gang escape scene with all the dust. Compression galore. Just awful. Blu ray was better. Been more cautious with Paramount ever since. Im nervous about Chinatown as its a top 5 for me. We'll see.
I recently set out to buy all 31 of Elvis Presley's feature films (including all 17 that have currently made it to Blu-ray/4K), and discovered that Paramount messed up Blue Hawaii two different ways: They butchered the opening title card, and the 4K disc itself doesn't have any version of the original mono audio; it just has a 5.1 remix (the only way to get the original mono is to instead watch the included Blu-ray, and that's still only in lossy Dolby Digital). I guess at some point I'll get the DVD as a supplement to have the original title card.
Yep that’s another classic Paramount move: no original audio and messing with the film itself. A number of titles have this issue. The Indy UHDs are the worst example of this because every single effects shot was screwed with and there’s no original audio plus compression and HDR issues.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader Your channel has been extremely helpful for my collection. I was close to selling my 2018 Superman 1 disc and buying the Superman 4K boxset, until I saw your video on the boxset and learned about Superman 1's 70mm mix.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader To give the devil their due, I wonder if some of the BLUE HAWAII problems came about from the several years when Paramount lost the rights to Viacom, before they became a merged company. Since they were primarily a TV-interested firm then, they may well have done substandard preservation on elements to movies they picked up from Hal Wallis and Jerry Lewis.
My friend, what are your thoughts on The Nun Story? I have not gotten it yet but I've heard WAC has begun to drop the ball on their live action films (as well as their animation for a while now). Is this true?
Sadly yes. The last batch of Blu-rays all seem to have defective pressings where they read at first as if they have a large file size but when you actually convert the disk to an MKV it’s cut in half and just watching the disc has macroblocking and artifacts throughout. I don’t know what happened but it definitely seems like an error. Although I have been seeing one or two fleeting spots of encoding issues on some of their more recent releases here and there so I can’t say I’m entirely surprised.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader I'm relieved to hear it might be an error and not just being lazy. But that would not explain all the dnr on animated releases!
It's sad that we still won't get the right printer of film I'm sad that one of are great film director like Scorsese can't get this movie right printer I think there's someone or other people won't give us the movie we been asking for. What happened to once upon time in America other great film of all time. 😢😢
I haven't seen the film in any iteration, so I can't personally comment on the quality, or lack thereof. Just thought I'd share an aside from film preservationist Robert Harris: The interesting thing is that original dye transfer prints (Technicolor) were not grainy, and this reminds me of an original 35.
An additional comment from him on the same topic, different film: First, let's discuss the 1953 War of the Worlds in 4k. As a Technicolor (3-strip) production, the film had a certain look, and this isn't it. One of the reasons that 3-strip worked was that the imbibition of the liquid metal dyes to the base via the mordant, gave a very soft image. And it was that softness that took an extremely grainy image - remember these are not one, but three black and white negatives printed atop one another - and made it appear almost grainless, and velvety. This process worked beautifully and successfully for two decades. Which means that Paramount's new 4k release of War of the Words adds very little to the overall resolution, while concurrently creating a grain feast. Comparing the 4k to Criterion's Blu-ray will give you a better idea of what the film should look like, and is by far, my preferred version on disc. I've noted my displeasure with the way that Paramount de-grains certain films without need, adding digital problems in the wake, but understand that there is nothing intrinsically wrong with de-graining. It all comes down to knowing, or learning, how and when to use the tool. One place not to use it is in large format origination. But the studio chooses to use it for some VistaVision, and other films that don't need it, and yet when it comes to 3-strip, we're given a version of the film that was never meant to be seen. All of this noted, does it make a difference from a nominal viewing position? Probably not. But in projection, get a bit too close, and it simply is incorrect.
Thanks a bundle for your work and for ruining your nerve endings and your Gastric mucosa in order to keep us informed. And beware: Paramount’s marketing team is looking for new taglines. Yours would fit many of their products: “Designed to be infuriating and as honestly insulting to the original work to film fans and to the consumer as as much as possible!“ 😉👍
See if you can review Sony’s 4K steelbook release of Taxi Driver. Theatrical artwork is retained on the cover, plus it has a healthy Dolby Vision color grading, high bitrate AND the original mono track. There’s also no visible signs of grain management. It’s a labor of love done with the film preservationist in mind!
@@DanielNovaJr it’s funny, I finally managed to get the Classics volume two set and now they’ve come out with this which apparently also fixes a tiny editing flaw that was in the first UHD plus it ensures the mono track is on both formats included… So this is another steel book Sony reissue I have to buy with important improvements.
It’s worth the double dip just because of that one fix. Some audio tracks that were previously on the Classics disc were also removed on this re-release, and that helped with the encoding. As far as studio label UHD titles go, this one might be the closest to owning a film print that one could get!
Where can I retrieve the version with the twenty minutes that we're missing? Is it on a VHS copy? Curious to watch what I've been missing this whole time. Thanks.
Most of the twenty minutes cut in 1968 is in the modern paramount version but it is still missing about a minute to two minutes of the opening which can only be seen in vintage prints and the rare Italian CVC Video pal dvd of the 1990’s separate Italian restoration. All video releases by Paramount are based on the flawed 1984 reconstruction which didn’t restore the footage and introduced the end screwup.
At this point, we all have to stay away from the paramount presents line. Just stop buying from them and they'll see a decline for a very obvious reason. Some people just have to stop hoarding movies for the sake of increasing their collection and actually do something right for once. The more these companies make money, the more advantage you're giving them. Even though some releases may have been done right, don't let that blind you from their other mistakes. Especially when their mistakes are more than their efforts.
What is wrong with people hired to do these transfers, in this case Paramount? They're paid hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars to do these projects but they're incompetent and produce atrocious work that wrecks great films. Shaking my head in frustration! 😡
Apparently Eagle Pictures will release their own 4K UHD based on this new Paramount scan with the potential to remedy some of the shortcomings (at least using a BD100 and therefore maybe matching the Kaleidoscape version). Do you know anything more about this?
There’s been a lot of form discussion about that upcoming release and we’re all hoping that at least the compression will be better. If it is, I’ll definitely be picking it up, but it won’t be able to do anything about the damage already done to the master itself by Paramount. But it should be a massive improvement over this crap UHD, and should at least resemble what people are seeing on the download version.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader I see, expecting an exclusion of the Harmonica rising sequence and ending music fix is probably far fetched/ out of the question 😕
It's a new BD from the new 4K master and as I detail in the review it's astoundingly yet another Paramount BD with proper encoding where the UHD has crap encoding. So in ways even when upscaled it is better visually due to having less compression artifacts and masking some of the inherent glaring visual problems of the 4K master itself.
Please, when you get the chance, tear apart the 4K of Team America: World Police from Paramount. That one is gonna suck so bad when it comes out. It's not even unrated cut on that one.
Why are proper restorations so expensive, so hard to obtain and why do they not do physical photochemical restorations anymore? is film really that hard to work with and unstable?
Well, it certainly has gotten much easier to work with film elements and achieve miracles with modern digital tools that were impossible in the photochemical era. The trouble is getting people to agree to actually finance the work in terms of studios and then having people who are going to put in the care and effort to make sure things are done correctly across the board from start to the finish all the way to the disc and streaming release.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader , I'm really disillusioned by Paramount for everything they did right with Star Trek and INDY they did some really dumb stuff. No original audio, recomposited effects on INDY, DNR on star trek opticals. DNR across the board for TMP directors cut. I haven't seen Once Upon a Time in the West yet or Godfather, I dread doing so.
@@matthewgaudet4064 prepare thyself then…both this and the Godfather are even worse. Thankfully though the review I’m working on editing now is the exact opposite and gives me hope about proper physical media releases again of course it has nothing to do with Paramount so that explains it.😂
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader , do any of the mission impossible films look like film or have original audio, I'm sort of afraid to find out. I'd return Dead Reckoning if I could I swear there are compression issues, and it was shot digitally. Didn't notice them on the Blu-ray it came with. Just the 4k people were saying was demo worthy.
@@matthewgaudet4064 all of them are technical improvements with the UHD’s of the first three having the most because they’ve been stuck in those ancient terrible masters. But of course, there are some compression problems and I’m not 100% happy with the first film in terms of how it’s been handled and for not having the theatrical audio fully intact. But the other problem is the HDR application is all over with some films having moments of super brightness and certain others that weren’t designed for it I think being ruined by being too bright , ghost protocol had it the worst.
Yeah, that makes it especially bad because the vast majority of people are only going to be able to see it in HDR 10 and it’s so much worse. Virtually every paramount disc I’ve seen so far is unbelievably worse or lesser in HDR 10. And that’s only because the Dolby Vision is basically trying to cover up crap.
@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader I found HDR10 to be more bearable skin tone wise over the Dolby Vision version. In DV, everyone's skin was overly orange like they has bad spray tans. Is that what they're supposed to look like?
@@djdepression there’s some degree of that in this film due to the makeup and type of makeup coloring they used to give that sort of almost dirt on the face look. But having a higher resolution source scan, new color timing, and then HDR on top of that just accentuated things, and because the DNR pass was done, it took out any detail in faces.
It’s honestly hilarious how other reviewers say “it’s approved by Scorsese so it should be good enough for you” while there’s a multitude of issues with the release. Anything to get another review copy I guess 🤷🏼♂️
It at least doesn’t have the same degree of encoding problems from what we know so far, but I’ve got to wait to get the disc in hand on release date because I know there’s still going to be some Paramount tomfoolery and I’m sure we’re going to have the same scrubbed of detail mono track.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader Does that mean you'll do a review sometime this year on Chinatown? I've only ever seen it on streaming, I would love to get the new 4k UHD by Paramount Presents, but knowing how they handle their back catalog I am a bit skeptical. It's about $40 online, which is a lot of money to blow on a title that may or may not be any good.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader , at least a fan 35mm scan exists for Graffiti in HD as well about 19 gigs. THX is a hybrid of an Italian 35mm ib tech with the laserdisc and 720 p and about 5 gig in size. the Graffiti scan I'm not sure which version it is or its providence. Because I already had a 480p one with the mono mix, and I'm not sure if this one is the 1978 edit. Also, it has scratches, gate weave and print damage.
![Lil Uzi Vert - We Good [Official Audio]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/DrSfBULAsek/mqdefault.jpg)
From what I've been able to gather from Google searching my ass off, is that Scorsese/The Film Foundation funded and did work and research to restore the film from Paramount's negative, with L'Immagine Ritrovata doing most of the work in 2007 and from that they made an internegative. The Film Foundation has their own print from that internegative but Paramount owns that internegative. From what I read, Scorsese fought to have certain scenes that had been cut in '68 put back in but Paramount only did a few. He really had no say on anything past restoring the film from the negative he got from Paramount. He's not allowed to change anything or add anything on his own because Paramount owns that footage. Saying he approved of the 4K is marketing bullshit so that his name appears on all the advertisement for this release. He approved the restoration, not this 4K or any home video release.
Maybe when they merge with Skydance they can get new people in there that actually care about the studio catalog.
I haven't seen the downloaded version and the improvement, whilst physical media collectors are short-changed. Strange times indeed. I've been looking forward to this review since Paramount announced the films 4K release.
Looking forward to the vid my dude. I went and re-bought the old two disc dvd recently just to make my own comparisons. Its a shame that it cant just be done right once. But looking forward to the breakdown.
I like that you have screenshots in this video. I guess your older ones didn't have examples like this, you were just talking, but now, you're showing what you're talking about, and it helps so much!
@@Saturn2888 early on I didn’t have any images and then figured out an overall methodology of making screen caps for discussion points. It takes a lot of time as I usually take hundreds for each film and then layer them into a video but I think it’s well worth it.
It’s insane that they put this on a 66gb disc. I would have bought this, even with all the other issues. Surely it cannot be saving them any real amount of money by not doing a proper 100gb disc.
FIM would put it on 50 GB for Arrow and it would look fantastic. Look at their 25GB Indiactor blurays vs the 50GB kino or US releases. Paramount are just incompetent morons.
Paramount deserves a visit from Harmonica.
😂😂😂
I'm really grateful that you're taking the time to do lengthy, thoughtful critiques of some of these new releases -- as there's clearly a growing backlash to holding the companies making these releases to account (another channel released a video last week basically bemoaning the fact that "so many people are criticizing 4K UHD titles -- just buy a DVD if you don't like it!") and especially because industry figures who know better (like Robert Harris) have basically given fully into revisionist and/or "modernized" (i.e. grain scrubbed) transfers and have stopped offering any meaningful insight or analysis. Harris's full-blown rave about this specific title is embarrassing (as is his recent defense of the James Cameron 4K trio).
Have you ever considered doing a dedicated home video history of Leone? His films are so complicated in terms of their home video history that having one go-to video breaking down what the best release(s) of each film are would be incredibly helpful. Not just for big Leone fans like me, but also for newcomers who may not know any better. I can’t think of one director who has more flawed home media releases then Leone (with the exception of special cases such as Lucas or Cameron)
You did sorta give a brief 30 second burst at the end speeding through all of his films, but a more in depth breakdown would be a great resource to point people towards
Yes and I’ve done a separate one just for OUATITW. Each film requires a separate video just like every Bond film does.
I basically did early versions of that kind of video in my reviews of the Dollars trilogy Kino UHDs.
I included the end short cliff notes version in this video just because it popped in my head at the moment of recording.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader gotcha! Yeah a video per film probably would be the best way of going about the topic. Especially for Duck You Sucker, that home video history is going to be a nightmare. It seems that film can never catch a break, and it’s been over 50 years of this!
Anyways, great video! My 2011 blu lives to see another day. I’ve watched that thing so much that tbh I’ve grown fond of the semi desaturated look, even if it isn’t the most historically accurate
@@tinypurplefishes2903 i’ve been planning one on duck you sucker for a long time, but I’m trying to finish my documentary on once upon a Time in the west having problems first as the DYS one is going to be extremely more complicated. And because I have to use so many clips in these I never know if there’s going to be anywhere I can actually post them.
I wish studios would just scan their archive movies from the best source at the rawest size, whether that be a new 2K, 4K, 6K or higher. Then give the new scan to someone who cares to restore.
If DNR is that important to some studios why don't they pay for the affect to be an option on streaming or on players, where the movie watcher, (if they insanely wish) can select "DNR" alongside Dolby Vision and so on. Essentially the James Cameron Mode 😂
Got to see this beast last night on the big screen what an experience Leone is a savage
Wish there were people like you in supervision of restoration efforts in cinema. The old companies seems to take a dump on their own back catalog, while independent ones like Criterion and Eureka are the ones with the heart in the right place
I’d certainly give anything to be able to do so. I would do quality control checks for free for any studio.
Nothing seem to work in Hollyweird these days … you would have an easy job
Thank you for taking another bullet for us, no pun intended. The fact that so many other reviewers are calling this a “fantastic release,” with “incredible depth” and “detail for miles,” makes me feel like the physical media equivalent of a tinfoil hat-wearing nutcase. That’s why watching your honest and incredibly thorough reviews has become essential in me maintaining my sanity. I also had no idea that Once Upon a Time in the West has had such a deeply troubled release history, and that Leone’s original cut of the film was disappeared by Paramount in 1968. That’s nothing short of a crime against the arts.
Every Leone film has problems and a long history of revisions that studios never take the time to iron out. This video is basically a cliff notes version of my frustrations and research done over years.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader Watching your videos has made me far more cognizant of how owning multiple editions of certain films is not only important from a preservationist standpoint, but essential if one is to grasp the full scope of a film’s technical as well as artistic merit. The fact that all of Leone’s films are plagued with the same revisionist troubles is unfortunate, to say the least, and in a perfect world it would be an industry-wide priority to see his original Italian and American versions be reconstructed down to their last frames - and also remastered properly, of course. Until then, I think I’ll just go hunting for the Laserdiscs instead, as there’s no way I’m spending my money on Paramount’s most recent physical media botch-job.
@@Cinemaniac76 unfortunately that’s the honest truth and that means we all have to wind up stockpiling all kinds of different releases of the same film across different formats because of dumb stuff like this. I wind up researching every film I even think about watching or rewatching.
Definitely pick up the widescreen laser disc if you can. It’s still got the baked in problems of the 1984 reconstruction but the audio is by far, BY FAR the best mono there is. If you like seeing vintage prints projected in theaters it’s also pretty cool because they just did a new transfer of a 1984 print so it has the changeover cues and a little bit of wear with yet another approach to the color timing but honestly, it’s the most enjoyable to watch video version I have when I watch it on my laserdisc set up.
Good to see Paramount maintaining their usual high standards.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
LOL that appropriate ending buries that disc in a coffin. Thanks for all your efforts.
Your intro and outro and voices of all the characters had me laughing as hard as your Don La Fontaine voiceovers of the Hardy Boys Casefiles. Thank you for the laughs!
THANK YOU!!! I always hope that people will get some enjoyment out of my goofy voiceovers.
I'm glad there are still reviewers who know what they're looking at!
Got the downloaded version...and YES, it's MILES better..go figure...!
Thanks for confirming that! I’ve read reports of people and some critics doing the same, which is why I included it in the review. But the fact that it’s 30 gigs larger alone speaks volumes. Of course the download version is HDR 10 only so you don’t get the Dolby Vision of the disc because they had to find some way to even make the download version screwy.😂
Does figure. Obviously, Paramount wants you to stream the better version over buying the inferior 4K. That way, a new customer has been converted. Bye, physical.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusaderI guess you could inject the Dolby vision metadata
Many thanks for your creative review! Lots of fun balanced by solid facts. I’m 72 and saw OUATITW in its first run in theatres in Toronto, Canada. To my recollection, it was the complete original English version of the film.
In the early 1970s, I managed to purchase this English version in its entirety on Super 8 sound film (10 reels) in a beautiful colour Pan and Scan version. I still have it. I remember thinking at the time, that the colour balance was just as I remembered it in the theatre, which was better than any subsequent home video release I’ve seen, including the new 4K.
I can verify that it contains the complete opening scene with “cracking knuckles” and extended “water dripping on hat” and “fly on face” sequences, and, most importantly, it contains the original ending with Morricone’s beautiful finale music playing uninterrupted in its entirety, adding to the film’s moving conclusion.
The music, “Addio Cheyenne” plays over the Paramount logo after the film ends. Also, the short scene with Harmonica reviving after being shot in the train station shootout is gone, of course, since it was reinstated into the film versions much later. There’s no freeze frame anywhere in my version, and there’s natural film grain throughout. Also, many of Leone’s detailed sound effects are present, which have unfortunately, been subsequently removed in the home video versions.
So, to my knowledge, everything you’ve reported jives with my experience, and I have the film print to back it up. Thanks again for your detailed and accurate analysis.
For anyone interested, there is a brand new 50th anniversary remaster of Morricone’s awesome score released by Screen Archives in a Limited Edition on CD in March 2024, with slip cover and perks, which sounds the most musical of any of the older releases, entitled, “C’era Una Volta Il West”.
Holy moly that’s fantastic!!! Does your print have the spinning title at the end or is it the original title that comes in and disappears in a more static fashion with the credit starting later like the foreign print versions?
Your print goes along with what the old video watchdog article said about most prints and even TV prints turned up that were completely uncut and reflected the original 1968 release version.
Hi DFIC, thank you for your response! To answer your question: All prints I’ve seen, from 1968 onward, have had the spinning main title, including my Super 8 film, which was described as a ”complete and uncut” print at the time of purchase. Thus, I’ve never seen any Euro prints, although I have a dim recollection of seeing the same spinning title in Italian (C’era Una Volta Il West) many years ago… a Euro trailer?
What additional footage exists in the European prints that differs from the original, uncut North American prints?
In addition to you revealing many of the 4K mistakes, I’m saddened that newer generations of film enthusiasts will never experience the original version that Leone intended, with the true colour, and the myriad of different sound effects that pepper the original mono soundtrack, whose inclusion Leone delighted in, and is one of his directorial trademarks.
Just to give one example, in the tense scene at the way station, where Cheyenne confronts the hapless bystander who attempts to stop him during his confrontation with Harmonica, the man makes a series of gasping sounds when he’s forced to his feet by Cheyenne. The sounds create a visceral stress in these close-up shots, creating character, and are completely removed in the home video versions I’ve seen, including the new 4K. And this is only one example...
Virtually all these subtle sounds, throughout the film, are removed from existing versions! Even the “original mono” soundtrack on the new 4K is the same, and I suspect Paramount just “monofied” their revised 5.1 track.
Regardless, it is not the original mono track as existing in my print! Restoration indeed. What we sacrifice for perfect sound quality nowadays… it might sound pristine, but can lack character. What are they removing in the process?
The current 4K’s colour is slightly too reddish, even though it’s the closest colour rendering to my print on home video thus far.
Personally, I’m furious that I had to spend over $90 CAD to buy the new 4K. I agree with you to stick with the Blu-ray, or better still, the original DVD! I wish I’d just stuck with my iTunes streaming copy. A “shinier” version is not always “better”.
Also, I find it hard to believe that a film enthusiast like Martin Scorsese could pass this current restoration. I bought the 4K on his recommendation. Unfortunately, as good of a filmmaker he is, I’ll think twice about his recommendations in the future...
@@akatanaka1 I think Scorsese only supervised the 2007 work and their use of his name is a misnomer. The mono mix sounds best on the 1994 LD even though it’s the 1984 version. The difference is night and day to the processed lossy mono on all modern releases and leads me further to believe those might be a folddown of the 5.1 remix.
I’m working on an edits and revision history documentary and am trying to recreate the opening and closing as intended. The closing on the very first prints is supposed to have the title credit appear just before the credit scroll over the end of the long shot just as it appears in Italian and German prints.
There were several versions paramount made between 1968 and 1971 which confuses everything further. The first reconstruction was in 1973 and had one of the screwed up ending versions.
Outside of the 1968 first prints and foreign versions all paramount iterations are missing 1-2 minutes from the opening sequence which really makes it feel more complete. The 2011 Blu-ray only put back one moment of two shots and this morning I noticed it even managed to be missing a sound effect of Jack Elam’s character’s fingers tapping the holster!
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader Looking forward to your reconstruction of the beginning and end of OUATITW! Not too much Foley work involved... for the ending, maybe "folding in" the music on the train whistle, and replacing the sound of a single galloping horse behind the already in sync Finale music... If I had more room on my computer, I'd restore the whole thing myself, as I did for the much maligned HD home video versions of 1958's Gothic masterpiece, HORROR OF DRACULA (another "cursed" title on Blu-ray!) using the original Warner HD master. The thing of it is, as physical media film enthusiasts, we shouldn't have to do that!
@@akatanaka1 oh cool you did some fan work on HoD! That film has gone through soooo much trouble on video.
I’ve been able to make a pretty passable audio track for the ending by using the folded soundtrack cues and the source audios. I’m mixing them together to try and keep the few bits of effects and match it with the correct music. What isn’t so easy is that none of the sources are exactly the same and some are missing frames so I’m trying to correct for that. But I’ve got it pretty close which is surprising!
I’m waiting on a copy of the old Italian Blu-ray to get here which some have said has an Italian mono track that does have the correct ending music, which would make everything much easier so I’ll have to check that out.
This will be fun.
@Damn Fool Idealistic Crusader loved your nearly two hour angry rant!
The “prologue” was hilarious and in the vein of the subject.
Throughout the entire rant I hear and see your anger and frustration.
If only Paramount spend as much time researching their work the way you do we would have way way better 4K discs of The Godfather and this masterpiece.
The big problem is that corporate f@cks at companies like Paramount don’t care. They simply don’t care and will pass the critique off as “uninformed” or no knowlegde of 4K transfers.
Same thing happens with vinyl mastering the past decade. For example Rolling Stones Deluxe “Abbey Road” 45RPM half speed masters sold at a high price that sound absolutely horrendous compared to the original albums.
The sad state of corporate companies ruining what we all love and cherish including music and film.
Im glad i cancelled my pre-order. It like all food the fake coloring, flavors, preservatives, flavor enhancers in our food....cheap n nasty and Low cost high profits..... Unfortunately young Gen only know CGI films and computer game graphics. Grain haters prefer that fake look , and want DNR, scrubbing, and sharp waxy, glossy look with fake color pallet. Success of these new scrubbed releases (such as Alien 4k) will open door for more crap.
I just realiser that I love your channel now. I have the DVD and Blu-Ray of this film, but now I will hint down the Laserdisc as well. I cant believe how quite a few channels praise the UHD release?! They also like the new James Cameron releases so I really dont know what they are all about. DNR certainly is the big Satan to me. Cheers for your rant. From Dani from Norway.
Giving this video a thumbs up, even though it's packed with one disappointing titbit after another. Anyhoo, thanks for the intel. I definitely won't be buying this trash.
It’s honestly pretty sad to see how mistreated these movies have been now that we’ve seen most Leone’s big movies reviewed by you. I’ve loved the dollars trilogy since I was a kid; and as I’ve gotten older I have developed a great love and appreciation for Once upon a time, so it always breaks my heart to see how in dire straits all of Leones films are. Hopefully like GBU, another home video label can get another pass at this film like kino did (in a perfect world it should probably be Indicator) and try to get this film as close as possible to how it was originally presented or before all of the diabolical paramount “corrections” were made. Thank you for your insight and if I can I’ll try and grab the blu-ray as I only have one of the DVD releases from back in the day
So I guess the DVD and VHS of most of these titles will have to do for the longest time.
WOW sounds like the Blu-ray is better than the 4k. 😔 Hopefully Sony will get a hold of it and give it the respect it deserves. Gosh this upsets me. I love this movie and was hoping to buy it. Thank you for your review.
I have the 2 disc DVD from 2003. Is there any point upgrading? I'm guessing the 4K disc isnt worth the money 😅. The DVD only has the 5.1. audio, however.
@@astracax definitely get the 2011 BD which will be a big upgrade over the dvd and is cheap. The UHD is a tough choice as I don’t think it’s worth it at all.
Paramount really deserves all the harsh criticism. The quality of Paramount's restorations, and even more so their encoding, is a coin toss at best! It doesn't matter if the film is a big classic or not, there is no criteria whether Team-A or Team-B will be responsible for a disc! Paramount has given far less significant films far better transfers and encodes! After all this deserved outrage at Paramount, I hope that the next 4K blu-ray review can be of something far more positive by comparison! Personally, I hope for a review of The Alfred Hitchcock Classics Collection Volume 1.
Do you know about the recent UHD of The Italian Job that Paramount released in the UK? Unbelieavably enough, it has better encoding and color timing than the Kino UHD, which you reviewed! On the other hand, the Paramount UHD loses the mono!
Yeah, I’ve really had it with Paramount to be honest.
That’s what I’ve been hearing about the UK UHD of The Italian Job which is extremely frustrating and also baffling at the same time.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusaderAlso, Europe is getting some Paramount UHDs with far better encodes. Generally in Italy and Spain if I'm not mistaken, in cases when the original UHD didn't have these languages. The UHD of The Truman Show from Italy is a vast improvement. The transfer is quite good, but the US UHD has really bad encoding. People are already making lists of Paramount UHDs for some reason getting far better encodes in some european countries! Whatever are the people in charge of those european UHDs should be promoted to encode the american UHDs too!
@@matheus5230 and Warner archive discs are turning up with bad encodes now. Who would’ve thought.🤦🏻♂️
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusaderI'm out of the loop about that.
@@matheus5230 some from the last batch of turned up with macro blocking throughout and despite seeming to have high rates when you first check them, apparently they only have half that. It doesn’t fully surprise me, though as more and more, I keep finding small spots of encoding problems on archive discs.
I guess you’ve long known that none of these major companies, aside from maybe Warner Archive, will ever send you a “review copy”, and I would count that as a badge of honor. Another great and entertaining review, yet very disappointing!
Hot take: I have it, I watched it. While certainly extremely far from pristine, still the best iteration I've seen.
I get that take and honestly it’s still a bit of a hard choice as you have to decide between the overprocessed compressed version from a technically better scan with color timing improvements or the more hands off color deficient 2011 Blu-ray, which doesn’t have all of the intensive processing applied. But either choice is still the compromised Paramount edit missing footage, including footage not supposed to be there, the 40 year old end screwup and no audio restoration.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader For certain. Whilst tremendously disappointed, I refuse to get furious (regardless of how justified that might actually be). It's certainly counterproductive to my wants, I would prefer to be bummed as opposed to incensed. In that I really don't expect a better version to be forthcoming, I'll tolerate the problems. Primarily because I already spent the cash.
But I'll wait on Chinatown, in that it's a top 20 flick to me & I won't stand for serious, serious errors on that.
As always: Love the passion & insight, best reviewer on the RUclips
@@daveanderson4600 There is a better version coming - the Italian company Eagle Pictures is putting one out later this year. They've confirmed they're using the same transfer but they're going to use a BD-100 disc for a start and they've heard the criticisms of the Paramount release, so hopefully they'll correct at least some of the other issues. The word on Chinatown is that it's a beautiful restoration.
@@daveanderson4600 I understand that. That was me for ages but this OUATITW UHD is definitely the last Paramount straw for me. I expect Chinatown to at least have some issues but thankfully we already know that at the very least it won't have the giant compression issues found here.
If you don't see the flaws, it doesn't mean it's not there you just can't see it enjoy it though.
What would you consider a good mbps encoding for a standard blu ray disc?
On average 30-40mbps.
Good thing i still have my bluray
Thank you for helping me save money! ❤ Nobody has to shell money for these horrible transfers!
What astounds me is..why oh why didn't Arrow get this, they got The Shootist and The Tin Star and both transfers are fantastic
Watching your review now my friend
Because it's our cow! and WE need to milk it!
@@sheri1983 I ain't buying their rotten milk!
I have 2003 Collector’s Edition DVD. Is there anything that the 2011 Blu-Ray has over that DVD version besides it being in 1080p?
The 2011 BD has the newer master which is improved and adds back about 20 seconds of footage. The extras are ported over from the dvd but it adds the HD trailer. I would recommend picking it up as it is a big improvement over the DVD.
Dear DFIC,
Thank you for your desire to get movies right. And thank you for all your info! I would not have gotten this anywhere else.
In this your heartbreaking review you have given much information about this movie.
Here is a question for you. I have always thought that the original (at least American) movie poster was super cool but that it was not balanced. Morton ( the railroad magnet) should also be on the same side as Frank with Jill in the middle and then Harmonica and Cheyenne on other side of Jill. Morton is a big part of the movie and it seems there would be space there to place him with Frank. In fact, it has always felt to me that he was probably there originally and was airbrushed out by an American distributor. The tag lines about "One Man to...etc." are not really faithful to the movie either and I thought they were probably placed there by American move reps. Does anybody know if there is an Italian or any other country that had s picture of Morton standing alongside Frank (Henry Fonda) in any other country?
Just a question that I've always had. I think Morton is important and a great character. It would make this movie poster legendary. I know the actor who plays Morton was quite popular in Italy so maybe they kept him on the poster there?
I do not know if your film expertise extends to even movie posters. But I thought I would give it a shot.
Thank you!
That’s a good point that Morton really isn’t on any of the original artwork that I am aware of. Most of the US and international posters were using some form or a section of Frank McCarthy‘s amazing iconic key art from the US one sheet, but even the different foreign posters were usually of the other main stars or a poster using stylized stills. I agree the US tagline on the posters is on the generic side and doesn’t really fit the film exactly. That was probably one factor in the film’s poor box office performance on the General release in the US that the marketing didn’t necessarily grab people.
Well...haha, Paramount strikes again.. I can't wait to see what they do to Chinatown..which doesn't even give you an option of a 4k scanned bluray, just a bonus disk of a sequel noone cared about..Paramount Presents, deseceators of art
What's worse is Chinatown is directed by a creep predator. That creep is Roman Polanski.
What do you think of Robert Harris defense of Aliens and True Lies 4K that was Peter Jacksoned ? It's all I've thought of asking you. Frankly I thought it was bizarre.
I wish I knew. I really do. That one really baffled me.
He's lost and probably just biased, as many are with Cameron.
@@TucoRope2Tight My feeling is that he's doing a high-wire act at this point -- internally he must know this is not good but so many filmmakers (Lucas, Cameron) who have real power are leaning into revisionist home video releases that he doesn't want to piss them off (and jeopardize future employment opportunities?) that he's going out on a limb to try to appease them. It's an ugly development -- and it essentially means that his public opinions going forward are going to be less insightful and reliable.
@@cad2046 , I think it's more about Disney. That was my reading of it at least. Aliens and True Lies were Disney releases.
@@matthewgaudet4064 He also went very easy on the disastrous UHD of American Graffiti last year so I suspect it's more the filmmakers he's tiptoeing around, not any one studio -- that's my guess but we won't know for sure.
Another day, another classic ruined by a crap remaster thanks to studio incompetence and typical lack of quality control. And they said 4K was the best these films are going to ever look..... yeah right.
Paramount is perhaps the most awful physical media provider ever. Unfathomable
A real shame, I guess I’ll just wait until something possibly better comes along, if that ever happens
I too believe that the Martin Scorsese approval note is referencing the previous photochemical restoration and not this current 4k master. Its misleading and a marketing gimmick. Anyone following Scorsese's home video efforts of late would know that Scorsese is no longer personally approving masters of his own films, having his longtime editer Thelma Schoonmaker do it on his behalf. Even for films she was not originally involved with! Its pretty frustrating when I see other reviewers who get way more traffic than this channel who appear to be underwhelmed by this new 4k but then say, "but if Scorsese approved it who am I to say otherwise?" 🙄 Nothing like a critic without gumption. Thanks for taking the bullet on this one. Im going to wait until a cheaper version arrives. I got burned on the 48 Hrs 4k. Knew it instantly when the film started on that chain gang escape scene with all the dust. Compression galore. Just awful. Blu ray was better. Been more cautious with Paramount ever since. Im nervous about Chinatown as its a top 5 for me. We'll see.
I recently set out to buy all 31 of Elvis Presley's feature films (including all 17 that have currently made it to Blu-ray/4K), and discovered that Paramount messed up Blue Hawaii two different ways: They butchered the opening title card, and the 4K disc itself doesn't have any version of the original mono audio; it just has a 5.1 remix (the only way to get the original mono is to instead watch the included Blu-ray, and that's still only in lossy Dolby Digital). I guess at some point I'll get the DVD as a supplement to have the original title card.
Yep that’s another classic Paramount move: no original audio and messing with the film itself. A number of titles have this issue.
The Indy UHDs are the worst example of this because every single effects shot was screwed with and there’s no original audio plus compression and HDR issues.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader Your channel has been extremely helpful for my collection. I was close to selling my 2018 Superman 1 disc and buying the Superman 4K boxset, until I saw your video on the boxset and learned about Superman 1's 70mm mix.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader To give the devil their due, I wonder if some of the BLUE HAWAII problems came about from the several years when Paramount lost the rights to Viacom, before they became a merged company. Since they were primarily a TV-interested firm then, they may well have done substandard preservation on elements to movies they picked up from Hal Wallis and Jerry Lewis.
My friend, what are your thoughts on The Nun Story? I have not gotten it yet but I've heard WAC has begun to drop the ball on their live action films (as well as their animation for a while now). Is this true?
Sadly yes. The last batch of Blu-rays all seem to have defective pressings where they read at first as if they have a large file size but when you actually convert the disk to an MKV it’s cut in half and just watching the disc has macroblocking and artifacts throughout. I don’t know what happened but it definitely seems like an error. Although I have been seeing one or two fleeting spots of encoding issues on some of their more recent releases here and there so I can’t say I’m entirely surprised.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader I'm relieved to hear it might be an error and not just being lazy. But that would not explain all the dnr on animated releases!
Disgusting display of incompetence by Paramount....definitely skipping this atrocity!
It's sad that we still won't get the right printer of film I'm sad that one of are great film director like Scorsese can't get this movie right printer I think there's someone or other people won't give us the movie we been asking for. What happened to once upon time in America other great film of all time. 😢😢
I haven't seen the film in any iteration, so I can't personally comment on the quality, or lack thereof. Just thought I'd share an aside from film preservationist Robert Harris: The interesting thing is that original dye transfer prints (Technicolor) were not grainy, and this reminds me of an original 35.
An additional comment from him on the same topic, different film: First, let's discuss the 1953 War of the Worlds in 4k.
As a Technicolor (3-strip) production, the film had a certain look, and this isn't it.
One of the reasons that 3-strip worked was that the imbibition of the liquid metal dyes to the base via the mordant, gave a very soft image. And it was that softness that took an extremely grainy image - remember these are not one, but three black and white negatives printed atop one another - and made it appear almost grainless, and velvety. This process worked beautifully and successfully for two decades.
Which means that Paramount's new 4k release of War of the Words adds very little to the overall resolution, while concurrently creating a grain feast.
Comparing the 4k to Criterion's Blu-ray will give you a better idea of what the film should look like, and is by far, my preferred version on disc.
I've noted my displeasure with the way that Paramount de-grains certain films without need, adding digital problems in the wake, but understand that there is nothing intrinsically wrong with de-graining.
It all comes down to knowing, or learning, how and when to use the tool. One place not to use it is in large format origination.
But the studio chooses to use it for some VistaVision, and other films that don't need it, and yet when it comes to 3-strip, we're given a version of the film that was never meant to be seen.
All of this noted, does it make a difference from a nominal viewing position? Probably not. But in projection, get a bit too close, and it simply is incorrect.
Thanks a bundle for your work and for ruining your nerve endings and your Gastric mucosa in order to keep us informed. And beware: Paramount’s marketing team is looking for new taglines. Yours would fit many of their products: “Designed to be infuriating and as honestly insulting to the original work to film fans and to the consumer as as much as possible!“ 😉👍
See if you can review Sony’s 4K steelbook release of Taxi Driver. Theatrical artwork is retained on the cover, plus it has a healthy Dolby Vision color grading, high bitrate AND the original mono track. There’s also no visible signs of grain management. It’s a labor of love done with the film preservationist in mind!
@@DanielNovaJr it’s funny, I finally managed to get the Classics volume two set and now they’ve come out with this which apparently also fixes a tiny editing flaw that was in the first UHD plus it ensures the mono track is on both formats included… So this is another steel book Sony reissue I have to buy with important improvements.
It’s worth the double dip just because of that one fix. Some audio tracks that were previously on the Classics disc were also removed on this re-release, and that helped with the encoding. As far as studio label UHD titles go, this one might be the closest to owning a film print that one could get!
Where can I retrieve the version with the twenty minutes that we're missing? Is it on a VHS copy? Curious to watch what I've been missing this whole time. Thanks.
Most of the twenty minutes cut in 1968 is in the modern paramount version but it is still missing about a minute to two minutes of the opening which can only be seen in vintage prints and the rare Italian CVC Video pal dvd of the 1990’s separate Italian restoration. All video releases by Paramount are based on the flawed 1984 reconstruction which didn’t restore the footage and introduced the end screwup.
At this point, we all have to stay away from the paramount presents line. Just stop buying from them and they'll see a decline for a very obvious reason. Some people just have to stop hoarding movies for the sake of increasing their collection and actually do something right for once. The more these companies make money, the more advantage you're giving them. Even though some releases may have been done right, don't let that blind you from their other mistakes. Especially when their mistakes are more than their efforts.
What is wrong with people hired to do these transfers, in this case Paramount? They're paid hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars to do these projects but they're incompetent and produce atrocious work that wrecks great films. Shaking my head in frustration! 😡
Apparently Eagle Pictures will release their own 4K UHD based on this new Paramount scan with the potential to remedy some of the shortcomings (at least using a BD100 and therefore maybe matching the Kaleidoscape version). Do you know anything more about this?
There’s been a lot of form discussion about that upcoming release and we’re all hoping that at least the compression will be better. If it is, I’ll definitely be picking it up, but it won’t be able to do anything about the damage already done to the master itself by Paramount. But it should be a massive improvement over this crap UHD, and should at least resemble what people are seeing on the download version.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader I see, expecting an exclusion of the Harmonica rising sequence and ending music fix is probably far fetched/ out of the question 😕
Looking forward to this Spenc..is the bluray a 4k scan or is it the same bluray as bèfore
It's a new BD from the new 4K master and as I detail in the review it's astoundingly yet another Paramount BD with proper encoding where the UHD has crap encoding. So in ways even when upscaled it is better visually due to having less compression artifacts and masking some of the inherent glaring visual problems of the 4K master itself.
Thank you!
this is really bad...and now imagine if Paramount had pulled a True Lies 4K and used AI on this movie
DON’T GIVE THEM IDEAS!😂🤦🏻♂️
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader James Cameron already did that. He's gonna mess up The Terminator on 4K next.
Please, when you get the chance, tear apart the 4K of Team America: World Police from Paramount. That one is gonna suck so bad when it comes out. It's not even unrated cut on that one.
Paramount at its best. This release is shameful.
Why are proper restorations so expensive, so hard to obtain and why do they not do physical photochemical restorations anymore? is film really that hard to work with and unstable?
Well, it certainly has gotten much easier to work with film elements and achieve miracles with modern digital tools that were impossible in the photochemical era. The trouble is getting people to agree to actually finance the work in terms of studios and then having people who are going to put in the care and effort to make sure things are done correctly across the board from start to the finish all the way to the disc and streaming release.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader , I'm really disillusioned by Paramount for everything they did right with Star Trek and INDY they did some really dumb stuff. No original audio, recomposited effects on INDY, DNR on star trek opticals. DNR across the board for TMP directors cut. I haven't seen Once Upon a Time in the West yet or Godfather, I dread doing so.
@@matthewgaudet4064 prepare thyself then…both this and the Godfather are even worse.
Thankfully though the review I’m working on editing now is the exact opposite and gives me hope about proper physical media releases again of course it has nothing to do with Paramount so that explains it.😂
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader , do any of the mission impossible films look like film or have original audio, I'm sort of afraid to find out. I'd return Dead Reckoning if I could I swear there are compression issues, and it was shot digitally. Didn't notice them on the Blu-ray it came with. Just the 4k people were saying was demo worthy.
@@matthewgaudet4064 all of them are technical improvements with the UHD’s of the first three having the most because they’ve been stuck in those ancient terrible masters. But of course, there are some compression problems and I’m not 100% happy with the first film in terms of how it’s been handled and for not having the theatrical audio fully intact. But the other problem is the HDR application is all over with some films having moments of super brightness and certain others that weren’t designed for it I think being ruined by being too bright , ghost protocol had it the worst.
I watched in HDR 10 and it was ugly.
Yeah, that makes it especially bad because the vast majority of people are only going to be able to see it in HDR 10 and it’s so much worse. Virtually every paramount disc I’ve seen so far is unbelievably worse or lesser in HDR 10. And that’s only because the Dolby Vision is basically trying to cover up crap.
@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader I found HDR10 to be more bearable skin tone wise over the Dolby Vision version. In DV, everyone's skin was overly orange like they has bad spray tans. Is that what they're supposed to look like?
@@djdepression there’s some degree of that in this film due to the makeup and type of makeup coloring they used to give that sort of almost dirt on the face look. But having a higher resolution source scan, new color timing, and then HDR on top of that just accentuated things, and because the DNR pass was done, it took out any detail in faces.
Paramount is acting like a company on the verge of bankruptcy.
Can they be sued for false advertising??
In this case, they certainly could I would think, although I doubt if it would get people much of anywhere.
It’s honestly hilarious how other reviewers say “it’s approved by Scorsese so it should be good enough for you” while there’s a multitude of issues with the release. Anything to get another review copy I guess 🤷🏼♂️
Why don't you start your own physical media company and restore these movies better
@@dornravlin I’d certainly love to. I’d do the work for free for any studio or rights holder.
0:50 You ... you ... you have legs!
You thought he's just a half man who sits on a chair all day? 😂
would be awesome to see you do kaleidescape reviews also!
Same editing and DNR issues, better compression, that's going to be it.
I’ll just stick with the widescreen laserdisc
This release is hot garbage, but apparently Paramount got Chinatown right. We'll see.
It at least doesn’t have the same degree of encoding problems from what we know so far, but I’ve got to wait to get the disc in hand on release date because I know there’s still going to be some Paramount tomfoolery and I’m sure we’re going to have the same scrubbed of detail mono track.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader Does that mean you'll do a review sometime this year on Chinatown? I've only ever seen it on streaming, I would love to get the new 4k UHD by Paramount Presents, but knowing how they handle their back catalog I am a bit skeptical. It's about $40 online, which is a lot of money to blow on a title that may or may not be any good.
@@OldFashionedCinephile yep I’ve been preparing for it. It’s taken a long while to actually get a copy of the UHD.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader I will be looking forward toward your review.
I think you’d look great with a quiff 💇♂️
Great video, instant sub.
Thank you!!
Is this worse than Universal's American Graffiti 4k uhd?
No because Graffiti was completely destroyed in picture and sound. This UHD of OUATITW is terrible…But few releases are as screwed as Graffiti was.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader , at least a fan 35mm scan exists for Graffiti in HD as well about 19 gigs. THX is a hybrid of an Italian 35mm ib tech with the laserdisc and 720 p and about 5 gig in size. the Graffiti scan I'm not sure which version it is or its providence. Because I already had a 480p one with the mono mix, and I'm not sure if this one is the 1978 edit. Also, it has scratches, gate weave and print damage.
The slipcover makes no sense. The transfer is decent. A bit smooth. True Lies and aliens worse