Rough In Electrical Wiring on a SIP home.
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- Опубликовано: 2 июн 2024
- Electrician Trig Feltus with Destiny City Electric answers common questions on how to install electrical wiring in homes built with structural insulated panels (SIPs) He details explains some of the most common situations an electrician will encounter while building with SIPs .
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I am bidding our first SIP home electrical installation. This is a great video for me to gain knowledge and be better prepared to figure out a price for this job.
Found sip videos and liked the idea, then I watched your video....... Building my house virtually alone, so I'll stick to what I know lol
Brilliant Video, really professionally done. I am aware that coming from the UK it is definitely not my place to comment on how the US construct timber homes! However, the thing about SIPs Panels is, they should be air tight as a number one priority. This will be compromised when drilling into the surface and gauging out service holes. Therefore, in the UK, we apply a 500 gauge internal membrane, sealed around the edges with tape. We then plant 1 x 2" timber carcasing to the now airtight building. This provides space for electrical and plumbing services without compromising the integrity of the SIPs Panels. Plaster-board is applied to the internal surface of the carcase. This is how we do it over here, it's probably not perfect and you can guarantee the Germans do it better!
Hugo ok first thing is he did not show the finishing. You shoot foam back in and put the plug in then screw a piece of wood over temporarily to keep the plug from pushing out while the foam cures. When done it is air tight. The level of finish in homes is generally of a higher quality in N America than the UK. I was shocked watching videos of new construction in UK showing just pipe mounted on the bedroom walls to hang clothes hangers on instead of closets. That would never fly here. Unless the vids I was seeing are not the norm???
Dave Brittain Hi Dave, Yes, fair comment about UK home quality but thankfully it is improving. Suburban UK homes tend to be unbelievably small as well. As I mentioned earlier it's the Germans who build the best houses this side of the pond and we have learnt a lot from them in recent years. I know from meeting oak frame builders visiting the UK from the US at conferences that building homes in America is more than just a job it's a lifelong passion. Anyway, thanks again for the brilliant video. Cheers Mate!
Nice video. You handled the camera and editing well, making it possible to watch details in your work. I learned. Thanks!
I've wired a few of these house and they have never been a problem. I would like to see more of them coming out. nice apron btw..
Made it look nice and easy. Great Video
Very nice video. I lived in florida, and the humidity really expands and compromises the plywood. So for my light fixture boxes I would attatch them better.
Congratulations on a wonderfully informative and educational video.
1
awesome video, really good, thanks for share you experience with us.
Very well done video, I am checking out doing a project using the sip system and this anwered many question about how to wire, thanks for the video.
Take the concept of simplifying construction with pre-built panels and expand it: install electrical wiring in surface-mounted conduits. If building codes do not permit this then they are outdated. Cutting chases not only makes installation and maintenance much more difficult, it also has a significant effect on the insulating and structural qualities of the building envelope. There are multiple practical ways to make these systems safe for the occupants as well as disguising, covering, or otherwise integrating with the desired decour.
Why not have channels in the SIPs in the first place? Either plan your channels or have all SIPs have a "cross" of small plastic channels that connect.
No shit, this is horrible.
These get drywalled in the interior. Surface mount conduit would look terrible in a new home. The channels look like they work just fine.
Wow! This is just plain cool. I can see SIP's getting popular. Possibly with preinstalled utilities.
EXCELLENT VIDEO! Superb. Very clearly comunicated!
The video appeared to be edited in a way to make it sound like wiring a SIPs house is competitive with wiring a stick frame. While it may be true that materials costs would be about the same, the video seemed to be edited to take out any mention of labor costs. If anyone has statistics on this, I would like to see them.
Good question, but I guess you have to keep in mind that there are channels running throughout the home so you don't have to keep drilling through studs and joists, etc. You just penetrate into the channel (unless you have blocking to drill through). So not like adding runs in an existing home either. Worth a study. And some projects I see on RUclips are just using the SIP panels for roof and exterior walls only married to interior stick framed walls. In that case, I suppose avoid using exterior walls for plumbing and electrical where you're able to. Seems like this project used stick frame for interior walls with the exception of sheer walls that were SIPs so mixed bag.
Congratulations my friend, very good my dream is to work in this area, thanks.
your video is very great i read some of the other viewer comments there's gonna all ways be haters out there you keep up the good work I'm a low voltage wiring installer my self and your video gave me few added ideals on wiring techniques. i gave you a thumbs up and i've subscribed to your page also
informative, thanks!
hi.
here in portugal, its not allowed to put wires without a pipe so after construction we can replace easy the wires without open the wall.
To all who ask why they don't produce SIPs pre-wired - "they" do -- they are called modular homes!!
Hello Scan 86 - just to reply to your comment below, PVC and expandable polystyrene polymers are compatible and there is not concern for and reaction between the electrical wiring insulation and the EPS foam as you mentioned below. PVC is very resistant to attack which is why it is used to insulate electrical wiring. EPS foams are not corrosive, this is why they are used for food packaging and insulated cups safe for human contact.
The plasticiser in the cables will migrate to the styrofoam insulation you should use a conduit system to protect them
Nice fishing technique sir,..I like the look of that red drill that you were using with the auger drill bit.The chuck mounted 90 degrees to the motor would come in handy for tight spaces..What make is that drilling machine?
thnks for this explication
How does the cost of this overall compare to reguler stick framing with closed cell foam? The labor is less with spray foam for sure.
The big factor here is the extra time it takes to wire. By the time it is finished it should add up to 1 1/2 hour per point! X $70/hr x 60 points = very expensive for ordinary folk - then it is usually taken by handy
Thanks... I'm going to be supervising the building of my own house using SIP construction... supposedly these guys have experience building with SIP, but I want to educate myself beforehand. I live in Chile
and, if given an opportunity, workers here will cut corners... So I need to know what's the right way to do things.
Moisture with all homes but specifically SIP's can be a REAL problem. Make sure everything is sealed air-tight (re-foam all penetrations.) and make sure the HVAC handles moisture control.
I have a few of these pos to wire up in the near future.
Excellent
by far ,, one of the best electrical videos i watched, you know your code!!! obviously you describe what country or state you live,, and thats a key,, so many videos i have watched but when they talk about electrical wiring either they are in another country and it makes a great difference..
I did not quite get how all of those route ways were tunneled. I guess you would have to be there. It went kind of fast. You should always though drill dead center through a joist so you do not take away from either the compression, or the tensile strength of it. If you drill too high, you take away from the compression strength of the joist, drill too low and the tension/tensile strength is diminished. Drilling dead center through studs is equally as important. We are all learning something every day. Thanks for the instruction.
No studs in a SIP. The insulation adds considerable (more?) strength to the wall compared to regular studs.
I'm not a professional builder. what about using track wiring? I'm thinking about using SIPs to build a Tiny House (house on a trailer). What is the R-Value and weight of a 4' x 8' SIP panel?
If the chases are cut into the foam before the second panel is glued to it, then why can't they install sections of PVC conduit into it and have the box bays cut into the panels? Or did they leave out when and how those chases were cut into the foam?
Randy
I've seen a timber frame home done that way.
How do you pass electrical inspection? Inspections are required before insulation and inspector wants to see it all?
There are thousands of SIPS homes all across the USA, all built according to code and having passed inspection.
do you have to up rate the size of the Cable ??? cables in insulation ???
I wonder if the sips manufacture put the pull string in identified chases before hand it would eliminate a lot of field time? The erectors may have to connect the strings, but still way faster than the fishing technique everytime.
someone was saying at the mfg you can have it ordered with all the holes precut and what not.
hi,
Our cable in the UK, is not allowed to come into contact with polysytrene, is that cable incorporate a special coating
The wire he is pulling (most of the time) is called Romex... it is the most common type of residential wiring in North America... the three (or more) conductors in it are sheathed by an outer flexible protective layer... it can be in direct contact with this foam, wood, and other forms of insulation in most every North American jurisdiction...
Are u electrician
It would cost more, but I would think the electrical and mechanical work would be greatly simplified if the SIPS panels were just used as the outside shell and the builder built another standard 2 x 4 wall frame inside. I'm sure the house can be designed that way.
Dixon Peer So building another house inside the SIP house is better? What a waste of $ just because most contractors hate to change or learn new techniques.
+Rob Zalewski +Dixon Peer Just construct a conventional 2 x 6 stick frame house. Use insulated sheathing like Dow Thermax. No thermal bridging then. Also fill in between the 2 x 6 studs with insulation batts. Then use insulated dry wall panels on the inside walls. Easy to get R-40 walls or higher with no thermal bridging.
+Cameron Hamill grade school math will show that is a horrible idea!
could you give me your email please?
My thoughts exactly. You could run 2X4 or less to allow conventional thru wire/pipe runs. Fill with more foam then wall coverings adding to R value. .
okay, that looks like it sucks and they will pay for it. So how do you keep all the foam bits from getting away (neighbors yard local water ways, the road)?
Tiersmoke92555 I assume they use biodegradable stuffs in the wall, but otherwise I dont think they give a damn
It's standard styrofoam....not eco friendly in my eyes, but hell who cares if birds and fish die, right :/
You demonstrate yourself to be an able tradesman who obviously has a hunger for excellence and continuing professional education. You put intellectuals to shame.
nice video... only wish I could see what the plumbers do to rough pipe into SIPs??!!
Plumbing should be run inside of internal walls of structure
sips are used on only exterior walls
And then the heat ducts and cold air returns.....No SIP's for me!
re Woodrow Magnus; To Repeat(because it was not very explicit in the video): Plumbing & ducting should only be run in INTERIOR, not SIP (exterior) walls.
What kind of cable is that? Can all electrical wiring be done with these kind of cables, even for bigger stuff like an electrical oven or a washing machine (2000W or so...)?
By what percentage did you increase you man hour units to estimate this job?
WOW! Didn't think of that. If it takes the electricians, the plumbers, and the heating people an inordinate extra amount of time to do all of this time consuming labor, it's going to increase the cost of the house by moocho bucks!
An electrician with experience can do a SIP house in the same amount of time as a framed house. There are some things they must do special, as in this video. But there are other areas where they save time, such as not having to drill through every stud in a wall, or put on metal protection plates because they are too close to the surface.
Very good demonstration. However, I would have liked a little more on how to go from wall to ceiling. 2 other things should be noted: (1) I would only use the metal boxes since the ears are adjustable. Edges of boxes should be flush with finished surface. (2) Video appeared to show the metal box being installed without any protection for the wire being pulled through the center knockout of the box. A romex connector of some sort should have been installed here.
Is this a y or delta connection
thanks you get to emphasize, the vertical hole is mfg pre-reserved, other wise you won't be able to do. right?
Thanks.
Fuck wiring that house! Would take forever!
What happens where you remove extra insulation for a box on exterior walls such as a big round hole for a rectangle box?
The structural strength is not impacted when small holes are made for electrical connections. Each manufacture includes a standard amount of such holes (within reason) for the load capacity safety factor. Each manufacturer of SIPs should be consulted for their best recommended practices. See more at www.SIPs.org for more info.
I suppose you have to use outlet extenders on every outlet given your not flush with the drywall?
How do you attach the outlet box in the round hole?
Interesting vid. It's difficult time consuming wiring but nothing different from LOCKWOOD ( refer LOCKWOOD HOMES NZ) wiring which has to pass through tricky walls. We have in NZ segregation of services so we can not put ELV in same chase or hole as a mains voltage. ie: no speaker wire with power cable.
With reference to the abusive people who still use metal conduit etc and have rats in their houses, I cant imagine a rat eating through 10m of polystyrene to get to the cable. They'd be full.
Good video, it's another one unusual to us in Australasia and Britain but hey, you guys have huge aircraft carriers wired in funny ways so you must be doing something right!!
i have like to see some demonstration .
please show many tactics
awesome
Is that special electrical cable or standard cable?
It is standard cable, but it can vary by code in each city/state.
How did he cut the vertical run?
+gracilism I missed that too. Are those pre-cut in SIPs at certain intervals?
Yes, the chases (vertical and horizontal) come precut from the factory or however you specify when you order the panels.
@@jackarmstrong9803 How come we have to learn this in the comments ...
What size hole saw did u use
4” hole saw is used, I’ve also seen an oscillating tool used for gang boxes which can also work pretty slick. The hole saw does allow for easier re spraying of the foam once electrical is complete in order to seal up the removed foam.
Thanks so much Trig. if you can please make a short video of running service wires from main panel to meter and running wires from main floor to a upper floor.
Per this demo, svc panel is just aother box, and he did demo inter-story.
GUARDING BY ELEVATION FOR 600- VOLT CIRCUIT REQUIRES AN ELEVATION OF?
Good luck!!!!!! Ιn case you can not "fishing" by yourself are you use an assistant?
An 'end-man' is helpful but not usually essential; it just takes a little longer when working between floors.
Put a rat (piece of rag) on the end of your string then suck it through with a small shop vac. Fast and easy. Like pulling wire through conduit. Very nice video. And yes I like working with SIPs.
MrB8 Excellent point. In some cases I have used a vac and it will just suck the pull string rag or not.
How did you know where the chases were?
They're marked on the OSB by the manufacturer. See the black marks?
Thanks very much.
Call him bass pro. All that fishing.😂😂😂
when you read up on the sip system it says everything is pre cut including the electrical so why the hell is he cutting into the walls if everything is done for the electrical from the factory?
I was wondering the same thing. Maybe the factory "pre-molds" or cuts the chases for the full length and width of each panel, and the holes are cut as needed. Maybe! Hahaha
The chases are there but you still need to locate everything
The outlets can be decided before mfg and precut in the factory before delivery. It really speeds the process and reduces labor cost in the field. That is why it can be up to 50% less expensive to use SIPs.
That is exactly right. Chases already exist. You can also have the switch and plug boxes precut. Then, just add the extra ones in the field as needed.
so basically more time pre-planning with the owner of the house before plans even get sent to SIP mfg. why wouldn't you spend more time to save even more money? I don't get it. Myself I'm deciding on if I want to do ICF or SIP and having shit pre-done saving me tons of time might be leaning me towards SIP
where is the bottom plate 1:12 ?
Whatever you save in framing and insulation time using Sip over stick it seems like your killing your subs on the SIP, especially if there are any changes the homeowner or builder decide to make.
you should know your lay out , sip walss you dont want to be changing
Not really. There's about a 4 hour "learning curve" for those willing to learn. Once you get the hang of it, it's a breeze.
UPDATE: The market in a lot of areas of the country no longer sees SIPs as a premium due to the extreme rise in framing labor costs and shortage. It's virtually a wash. I recently bid a couple of houses both ways. Proceeding with SIPs in both cases. Not to mention they'll move in about 2 months sooner.
17:30 - and... pulled the string all the way through :-P
at 18:50 you put the romex into the metal electric box with out a connector...
Ya I saw that too but I think he was just going through the motions for the main issue of fishing.
He didnt screw it in tho!
Mikel Marku. Lmao
It's fine no lightswitches are hooked up hahaha
No nmb box connector what's up with that.
If the insulation is aero board or I think polystyrene then the little beads will rot away the pvc insulation of the cable in no time.
are you allowed to pull low voltage with 12 wire in a sip?
Ya its not in pipe. Its considered a chase.
+Brian Rice I wouldn't do it. Speaker wire, or any low volt wire should be at least 12" apart when run parallel to each other. The induction can will cause interference that will degrade sound quality in speaker wire, data loss in category and coax cable. I am a low voltage contractor and was watching this video for ideas for building my own house.
Scott Chamberlin and if there was ever a short it's nasty
Is it less nasty if it is not in a chase? Honestly it is always nasty!
Dave Brittain well if you got a short in 120 and yo got 24 gauge wire yeah really bad stuff it will run down the wire and burn up the house
And there goes the Dynamite....
Y eso es en usa? Así trabajan ? Aquí en chile esta prohibido usar el cable o cordón sin un ducto o conduit de pvc.
Me imagino un corte eléctrico se propagara por toda la casa . Es un peligro. Saludos .
The Chase Hole is much too large. Cut trace the electrical box and cut-out the trace box; you have a chase and a perfect/ tightly- fit box opening.
Отлично!
Low voltage and High voltage through the same chase... Oh My!!! 15:15...
Hlo sir , u also a electician ?
Maybe we just need a robotic insulation tunneling device operated by 3D computer instructions or a smartphone. It's not a low-tech solution but it may well be the best one. Maybe with a small camera, light to troubleshoot. When we can have nanorobots clearing, navigating clogged arteries and drones for under 100$ we should be able to engineer something affordable, usable that can tunnel through XPS insulation of SIP panels. Then it's a perhaps matter of attaching a flex while it tunnels or pushing it in after or pulling it through with a wire that was attached to the tunneling device. Maybe we can even make it strong enough to bore through OSB at joints. We can even have it navigate through premade holes, sections in the OSB, laminate panels to navigate through floors and accross panels. Maybe we can make it go in with a feed and have variable tunnel sizes, bore heads. This was never feasible before due to the amount of structural boards and stone, brick and other materials that interrupted the insulation but this seems like a very doable thing for SIP walls. It could cut the cost, ease of electrician and other services labour dramatically. I think the building industry can introduce more tech solutions. Building is I think one of the last, biggest least automated, tech-ified industries. This should be a realistic solution. But maybe it isn't worth the cost-effort when we can just throw cheap electrician tears and work at the problem and have it solved with precut wire-chases by the SIP manufacturer but we can all see in this video that that isn't exactly sufficient or ideal. IUf they can get a robot on mars or a spacecraft on the moon there have to be engineers willing to try and solve this sort of bs.
Maybe the tunneling device can be attached to some pushing rod and can even spray/'glue", "paste the sides of the new tunnel with some form of plastic/lubricant piped in from the pushing "rod" that eases the follow-up with the wires or tubing. Along with navigation through strategic places between panels, joints we could navigate an antire SIP house for new light fixtures, wiring or perhaps even water supply. Now to make it a realistic solution by making it a SIP standard and regular tool.
great video , i am going to build a sips home . its the only way to go.
best of luck, thanks
Can't a sheet rock screw hit the romex wire?
The chases are in the center of the wall.
thx,s
I've got news for you, want to make this easier? Build a stick frame house. Wall construction may be quicker with a SIP wall, but now it's going to take you 10X as to what is normal to then install the electric, the plumbing, and the heating ducts. They don't tell you this. This might work for the Amish who don't use electric, or heat ducts, or plumbing inside the house, but then again, who wants to live like the Amish, other than the Amish? You could have a stick built house done 10X faster than this.
So much for SIP walls..........
There are several advantages and disadvantages. But suggesting stick built 10X faster is simply false. I have built two and never run plumbing or heating through the SIPs. There is no need and there are other reasons not to run them in exterior walls in any event. The panels are factory fabricated to tight tolerances and go up very quickly. The wiring is relatively straightforward.
Sip panels are just a little more time consuming. But are easier to wire than he is showing !
Have you tried a vacuum?
wtf is this ????
Look how the electrician doing it in Norway :)
This is so funny :)
Молодец.
Wud be so much easier if the sip wall was batonned den slabbed, wiring and plumbing would be so much more straight forward plus the integrity of the insulation wud be intact
that string is called a jet line!!!
If you use vacuum or blower to get the line where you want it instead of the steel fishing wand. Just keep the 'turns-drag' in mind.
I have a shirt just like that :D
I agree this painful to watch
I want to work with you
So basically you are defeating the purpose of the sips by creating hot and cold spots throughout the whole house .Surely one of the sips manufacturers has created a better way for running the electrical.
Exactly. Carving out all that insulation dramatically lowers the R Value.
in the area of the 1 inch hole
It's a 1" chase in minimum 3.5" insulation. Just think, a continuous thermal bridge at 16" to 24" o.c. in a stud wall. Just think of all of the hot and cold spots!
Moonlight Design Studio, LLC Easy solution, spray foam(low expansion for doors and windows).
Doing spray foam in the chase isn't necessary. My point is you get so many more hot and cold spots in a stud wall. The 1" chase virtually does nothing to the performance of the wall. Your hot and cold spots comes from air infiltration, not thermal bridging anyway. A SIP has virtually none. During shop drawing review you can add and omit all the chases you need.
No metal plates where the wire runs, before drywall, hope nobody screw the wire!
there is no sound on this video
This video does have sound. Please check your equipment.
you need to edit. first: you should show the finished product. them the audience can see what the end product is. second maybe bring camera closer with assistance. detail !! maybe computer aided drawings to see detail would be great help.
The point is not to show the finished product lol. What are you going to see except a room with drywall and a receptacles and switches? What he is showing is how to over come specific obstacles when fishing wire in sips.
Wiremold!!!!!
YuK! It would look awful!
I am amused by the amount of work done by electricians that does not involve connecting wires. Most of it is stringing the wires.
If I ever build my SIP based shop everything electrical wil go into EMT. That way I can do most of the mechanical work and the expensive electrical, breaker boxes etc, work can be done by licensed electricians.
I guess this eliminates any ability to unplanned changes. :-(
Absolutely NOT! You can make field changes as much as you like. The idea is that the conduit runs are always there for your to access if you need them. It just save time to have the light switches and electrical plugs pre-cut at the factory.
I think, you do normal. It use for industry or wood house. If is concerte house, you can't do
this is painful to watch!!!!
AMEN!
And labor intensive......
Call 8004575453
the poor guy cant even fish wire two feet in the wall
Where's the P.P.E at lol
I won’t live in any lil shed that cannot stop a .177 pellet, let alone .22LR.
Only if you happen to hit a stud. But how often is that a problem? Have your neighbors been complaining?