Never flown a King air but in light singles it does take time for the gyro's to get up to speed and the gyro will appear 'toppled'. This is remedied with the application of engine power which then increases suction and hence the gyro. I don't know how applicable this is to the king air but very possible the captain was influenced by early training days in small singles
@@andrewgkorol Indeed, but up there in the Northern Territories? There is no forgiveness up there to be flying with a gyro or HSI not functioning. There is no place to put down. To hell with management. If the damned things don't come to life? It's a no go!
@@naknaksdadn572 Great point. My own rule is never leave mother earth unless everything is operating 100% totally correctly. Why? You can not pull over to the side of the road & troubleshoot the problem. I read too many accident reports if this rule was used they would never been a accident report made to start with.
What pilots would hate to hear!: co pilot-"what's that sound?" captain-"it's that sad piano music they play when planes crash" co-pilot " ohhh s--t!!!"
That's why old pilots all it a graveyard spiral, unfortunately. These guys needed some drill in old fashioned needle-ball-airspeed practice for gyro failure. The turn coordinator is an electric gyro and should still work when the vacuum driven AI fails,
@@aviation-zr2ln what a tragedy that one was and it's crazy to think that a small business jet managed to land safely while a much bigger 737 goes down on the spot
Yes. It’s fine to take a short flight in clear daylight conditions with an attitude indicator inoperative, but not at night or in overcast conditions. These pilots absolutely should not have taken off.
@@timonsolus I could *almost* understand them taking off if the problem had "fixed itself" before, but once they leveled off and it still wasn't working, they should have circled around and landed again.
Back in 1997, I was on the same exact type of plane for a flight from Oakland to Yosemite. There was a pilot and no co-pilot. The pilot arrived just before we took off. His pre flight was 5 minutes, if that much. Seeing that there was six females and myself on the plane he said "Oh good, a man. In case something goes wrong, I'll need your help in the cockpit, watch me carefully." I watched him like a hawk (he left the cockpit door open). Ceiling was 500 feet and visibility was three feet in the clouds. It must have been an ILS flight because the Yosemite runway was suddenly in front of us and an uneventful landing. Knowing what I now know about aviation, given the same circumstances, I would not get on the plane.
My favorite flight of all time was flyinging out a small airport in Montana like this, there was no door between pilots and cockpit. The pilots had to do a very steep spiral climb on takeoff they made an announcement to us that we were going to hear a lot of alarms/bells but don't worry that's normal. It was such a fun a beautiful flight.
Both failing I would put down to the filters on the inlet air not being cleaned, and being clogged up with all sorts of debris from the cockpit. Right hand one probably clogged first, thus no rotation of the rotor, as you do need a little more suction to start it, especially if it has stopped with the erector system full open on the one side, bypassing air through the system. Probably was sluggish for a long time, till the debris built up enough, and the vacuum generator was worn, so the suction, while enough to turn off the vacuum warning capsule, was insufficient to actually start the instrument. Going to guess the interior had been cleaned with a brush, throwing up all sorts of fluff behind the panel, and then this was gradually drawn into the suction inlets of the instruments, clogging them over time. Accident impact likely dislodged the clot of fluff, or it fell off during removal, as there was no suction holding it firmly in place. that vacuum warning is a very important thing, not only telling you the air operated instrumentation is unreliable, but also warning you that the engine has some sort of issue, as it is generated from an air bleed from the high pressure combustion chamber, fed through an orifice and a venturi, to use the low pressure directly behind the expanding gas. Lowering combustion pressure will show up there, before almost every other instrument shows it, unless you are looking carefully at EGT and fuel flow rates, and see them start to vary slightly from optimum. However the most common causes are that either the orifice is worn, or the one rubber pipe is perished. Those though will show up on startup.
It is often obvious when someone comments on a youtube video with BS and fabricated assertions. It is also often obvious when someone comments, who knows what they are talking about.
I believe this is a plausible diagnosis of the problem. It is pretty important that critical components are working correctly. When the pilot tells me it will start working during the flight, I will politely and quickly leave the plane.
It also takes A LOT of debris to clog a gyro filter.. which is about the size of a small oil filter with a similar pleated paper element and generally changed every 500 hours. I’ve never seen one even on planes that have been sitting for a decade or more have more than a small layer of dust on them. The vacuum regulator filter (the sock filter) is more Mickey Mouse but none of that air goes to the gyro.. just the vacuum ejector. A vacuum regulator lets in air downstream so there is less vacuum. Maybe an open vacuum line.. but that would have been obvious during the investigation. No.. the bearings were probably shot. Pretty common for those old gyros and the force of the crash would have completely ruined them regardless. Just the witness marks on impact would have told them the gyro was stationary and not spinning.
@@Bartonovich52 Yes shot bearings very likely. thankfully I no longer have to strip and clean them, even replacing sealed bearings on synchro units was less painful, despite them being classed as non repairable, but you can always fix them if you have a large supply of donors for the parts that fail.
Sorry but id NEVER attempt to fly in Dark without ALL working instruments. VERIFIED before i leave the ground. Those are your only navigation when you’re up there without visible landmarks
They didn't consider the inoperative equipment to be inoperative? That just makes no sense on their part. Inoperative literally means "does not function when it should" and the attitude indicator certainly wasn't functioning when it should've been. If it needed vacuum or pressure to be operational, it would've gotten it simply from the engines powering up. Even if idle wasn't enough to get the systems going, the power applied to taxi should certainly have all systems running. If it wasn't operational by the time they reached the runway, it wasn't going to be during flight either. Or at least the odds are so much against it that no one should gamble on it, for the exact scenario we just saw.
The casual attitude of the PIC regarding the inoperative instrument was inexcusable. The FO should have asserted himself before takeoff. Nice video Allec
Amen Brother. I would have INSISTED on a fix before flying. Having ONLY 1 means 0 backup. And no artificial (analog) horizon, to help level the wings ? Seriously I don't understand the level of complacency here. Once airborne & RS Attitude gauge remained inoperatve, FO should have immediately set up their provided Garmin Ipad with Synthetic Horizon. This alone could have been their salvation once Gyro failed. RIP to these two underprepared undertrained pilots & their families, in Jesus name.
@@star43able not necessary, but the AH does not fall into the "nice to have" instruments, so a non functional one should have been a red flag. Too bad Boeing decided the attitude indicator fell into that category.
I work in the medical field and there have been a number of times when a physician says all is well and pushed the envelope of patient safety. The co pilot put his life in the hands of the experienced PIC and due to being deferential it cost him his life. But the PIC made multiple judgment calls that cost both of them their lives. When your back up system becomes your primary and it fails you have nothing to back you up. An accident that didn't have to happen but did, RIP.
The key thing to add is the weather. If the weather had been clear, he could have seen the horizon; that would have been his back up. In this case, you are right; he had no back up at all.
I could (maybe) understand not rejecting a flight in the belief that a MEL instrument will come alive in a few moments, IF those moments are while the plane is still on the ground. To actually take off with such a critical instrument not functioning is insanity.
MEL: Take-off with one engine inoperative is not permitted: "OK, it's not working now, but that doesn't mean it's inoperative, it'll probably start once we're airborne."
I would have INSISTED on a fix before flying. Having ONLY 1 means 0 backup. And no artificial (analog) horizon, to help level the wings ? Seriously I don't understand the level of complacency here. Once airborne & RS Attitude gauge remained inoperatve, FO should have immediately set up their provided Garmin Ipad with Synthetic Horizon. This alone could have been their salvation once Gyro failed. RIP to these two underprepared undertrained pilots & their greiving families, in Jesus name !
Spatial disorientation is a bi*ch. As soon as the auto pilot disengaged, Captain pulled back on the yoke. It's instincts saying "ok, climb a little. Better gain some altitude than CFIT" but the plane stalls because you've now pitched it too high. And you have no reference to know where the hell are you pointing at without an artificial horizon in IMC. You want to controll the spin first... but did they even realized about the spin? If so, did they know to which side was the plane spinning to? Is just like being blind! Your only instrument then are your butt cheeks, and is not very precise one.
I'm with you. Partial panel proficiency means the ability to scan and interpret other instruments and indications to fill in for the missing one. The altimeter and VSI tell you whether you're climbing or descending, while the turn coordinator and whiskey compass tell you where you're turning (admittedly, the whiskey compass precesses and isn't precise util you settle on a heading, but it will tell you which way you're turning and how fast). If the spiral is steep enough, rudder pressures might help identify which way you're turning and give you a sense of how fast; and if you're listening, wind and engine noise will help tell you whether you're in a climb or a dive. Meaningful practice with partial panel could well have averted this accident. That lack is mostly on the airline. Mostly.
I find it difficult to believe that any instrument rated pilot doesn’t practice partial panel on a regular basis. I did, it’s not all that difficult but you need to stay current with it or you’ll get rusty to the point of hazard.
This is true however, the attitude indicator is not the only reference to the horizon, the turn coordinator can also be used. This is what’s meant by partial panel.
@@christosvoskresye If you lose your attitude indicator you use your turn coordinator instead, although it only indicates rate of turn, this is a byproduct of bank and with a slightly modified control technique a plane can be flown using it in lieu of an attitude indicator. It's a skill that must be demonstrated on the IFR checkride, but many pilots do not regularly practice it afterwards. The investigation of this particular accident found that the pilots likely had not practiced partial panel flying in quite some time, hence why they did not maintain control of the airplane after the failure of the left side AI
They probably should not have taken off. And death spirals can be very hard to recover from. That's what killed JFK Jr., probably. They were just presented with a situation beyond their flying capabilities. May they now rest. Thank you, Allec, nice video...
For all the instruments and manuals and checklists and training...one thing is usually clearly absent in a lot of these accidents....pilots for some reason or another, forget how to fly the dam plane. Planes don't simply fly out of the sky....if you know how to fly them regardless of all the bells and whistles. This is why I shudder to imagine in future years when people leave driving to their cars....
The moment I read that the first officer's attitude indicator was not working, I knew the captain was going to do what he did and ended up killing both of them for some stupid decision. A sad ending to their lives due to overconfidence and stupidity.
Unfortunately, procedure changes always seem to come by way of an accident. They were flying a plane that was over forty years old, so it’s inevitable that something is going to fail eventually. Since they weren’t carrying any passengers, they should have aborted the flight until the problem was fixed.
Can someone PLS TELL ME how these vids are made?!? I wanna buy a flight sim game but I know NOTHIN' about gaming...never made it past Nintendo, ha. Thx in advance.
We were flying from Key West to Tampa for military detachment, same type of aircraft. Half way to Tampa the pilot say it is lunch break tells the nonpilot on of the Navy guys to keep a look out. He then pulls out a drink and a sandwich Does this for about 15 minutes till he get a radio call. Finish the flight and all where safe. O yea the guy in the copilots seat did not like to fly..
I can see what went wrong here, right near the beginning - when the captain told the F/O to 'tap' on the gauge to see if it was stuck. That is absolutely the wrong thing to do. He should have said; "Scoot your seat back and raise your leg, then kick the gauge with the heel of your shoe as hard as you can! That should free something up." (And just in case the whole panel falls off, they always have their emergency chutes.) 🤗
Should the co-pilot refuse to take off with only one ADI operating, he'd be still alive (so as the pilot). Loss of ADI is a critical failure. If you're still on the ground, it's a no go
Qantas has a policy of 100% perfect instrumentation on checklist. I was on a flight when the clock wasn't working. We never pushed back until a replacement was fitted. This was the attitude indicator! Critical instrument! 'She'll be right' is not acceptable. RIP guys.
Qantas also has the luxury of endless taxpayer dollars to make up for income shortfalls, most airlines don't get that courtesy. There is plenty of instrumentation safe to fly without, it's why an MEL exists. The clock on nearly any aircraft is deferrable because there are two in the cockpit of modern jets and they aren't primary instrumentation. Obviously the attitude indicator wouldn't be on any MEL but "perfect" doesn't exist in aviation, at any given time 50%+ of the airborne aircraft have some fault that's been deemed inconsequential or deferred per an MEL.
When pilots accumulate a certain number of hours, around 2000 and more, it's been shown their guard for safety can get slack, and flying according to procedures can become not as proficient. This is another factor that could've played a role here with this Capt., leading to this crash.
Same thing with new motorcyclists. Right around 1k miles of experience you lose the nervousness and feel confident...too confident. I experienced it and I've watched it happen to a lot of riders I knew. If you're lucky you only have a close call; if you're unlucky down you go.
All aircraft companies pilots employees anyone LISTEN UP. COMPLACENCY. IN THIS CASE THE PRICE OF COMPLACENCY WAS TWO HUMAN LIVES. WAS IT WORTH IT? LET ME ANSWER MY OWN QUESTION LET'S MAKE IT RHETORICAL. THERE'S NO PRICE EVER WORTH A HUMAN LIFE POINT BLANK PERIOD 🤨👏💯🙌
This is one of those "look you fool" moments, prior to flight. There are ten dollar attitude indicators one can buy and mount on the dash of a plane along with electronic backup on your tablet or pad. You just have to develope an imagination when flying. There's a million things that go right every flight, it takes but one to doom it. And I loathe to say it, 😮but better they crash with no passengers them with. If this is the attitude of the pilot and the F/O absolutely knew better, but said nothing, then he's showing the same fundamental lazy practices as the pic. Its sad to say, but establishing absurd lax flying habits almost guaranteed this would happen.
Very sad the pilots did not have those instruments repaired before flying the plane. The plane was old. Maybe that altitude Guage malfunctioned before? Very sad. God rest the pilots souls.
A sophomoric captain it seems. Jesus, after they took-off and found there´s no reaction of the attitude indicator, why didn´t they return while they were still in sight of the departure airport for a check? Well, we will never know I guess. RIP
Vacuum driven anything should be abolished in aviation. This sort of equipment is from an era when electricity was something "experimental". However, times have changed, we are now considering electrically driven airplanes exactly because of proven RELIABILITY. Why does this still need to be explained ?
If a pilot is not proficient or even just rusty it is a nightmare that frequently ends in death. Usually the vacuum pump fails in flight, but to take off with no attitude indicator is suicide. Oh, yeah, that's right, the pilot said it would come to life after they were airborne.
Is anyone else like me?...I automatically hit the "Like" button before I even watch the video! I know the video is going to be good so I save myself the trouble of hitting it later! 😂 Thanks Allec for all the great videos!
I thought pilots are supposed to be very smart. I could never understand these pilots who make these crazy decisions to fly anyway when they have an aircraft with any inoperative system let alone a primary flight instrument. It's one thing if an instrument or flight control fails in flight but if you see and know that you have a bad instrument on the ground and you take off anyway, then you're not very smart. Insist on a perfect airplane especially when safety is concerned, the law should back you up even if your employers won't.
Appears to be a lack of common sense here. Guess was a positioning flight as there were no passengers on board, even if there were, surely you would get it checked ? Perhaps it was as well there was no one else on board.
Light conditions in northern latitudes can be weird. In winter, norther latitudes have *very* short daylight. Go far enough north, and there are days with *zero* sunrise.
Not so much blame as noticing that the crash did not have to be inevitable, as there was recourse - *had* they received *any* familiarization with the tool's capability.
I know our FAA ops inspector would be frothing at the mouth if our company even though of training pilots that ForeFlight could be used to substitute primary navigation in an emergency. I can almost hear him saying how that would provide crew with a false sense of security and encourage them to use it even in non-emergency situations when we should just train them not to take off with inop equipment that hasn't been deferred per the MEL.
Deep down, I feel that way about buildings. I have some deep fear (rarely activated) that an old building might just be on the point of collapse. Years ago, this combined with my fear of heights (also rarely a problem, I even like the window seat on a plane) on the towers of Notre Dame cathedral in Paris so that I *HAD* to get down. Knowing that the fear is irrational does not make it go away.
Hundred year old aircraft fly perfectly safely ('Jenny' biplanes); it's the material condition of the aircraft that matters there. Poor maintenance, or just broken equipment, can happen aircraft of any age.
A checklist is not something nice to read, it is there for a purpose. If the checks don't check, don't fly.
Never assume your instruments are going to somehow come to life!
So true. That instrument is dead…don’t follow it.
Never flown a King air but in light singles it does take time for the gyro's to get up to speed and the gyro will appear 'toppled'. This is remedied with the application of engine power which then increases suction and hence the gyro. I don't know how applicable this is to the king air but very possible the captain was influenced by early training days in small singles
@@andrewgkorol I was under the impression that they had to spin up ON THE GROUND to know where the horizon is.
@@andrewgkorol Indeed, but up there in the Northern Territories? There is no forgiveness up there to be flying with a gyro or HSI not functioning. There is no place to put down. To hell with management. If the damned things don't come to life? It's a no go!
@@naknaksdadn572
Great point.
My own rule is never leave mother earth unless everything is operating 100% totally correctly. Why? You can not pull over to the side of the road & troubleshoot the problem. I read too many accident reports if this rule was used they would never been a accident report made to start with.
What pilots would hate to hear!: co pilot-"what's that sound?" captain-"it's that sad piano music they play when planes crash" co-pilot " ohhh s--t!!!"
Like Mr. Krabs said, "That's a 4/4 string ostinato in D minor! Every sailor knows that means DEATH!"
@@charlieharper886 I know lol!
Love the new ones..HOPE FLIGHT SCHOOL IS GOING WELL!!
Allec is at floght school
Steep descending spirals rarely end well
RIP young pilots
That's why old pilots all it a graveyard spiral, unfortunately. These guys needed some drill in old fashioned needle-ball-airspeed practice for gyro failure. The turn coordinator is an electric gyro and should still work when the vacuum driven AI fails,
You're right. GOL 1907
@@aviation-zr2ln what a tragedy that one was and it's crazy to think that a small business jet managed to land safely while a much bigger 737 goes down on the spot
Always have a back-up attitude indicator when you fly in instrument conditions. Airliners have three...
Yes. It’s fine to take a short flight in clear daylight conditions with an attitude indicator inoperative, but not at night or in overcast conditions. These pilots absolutely should not have taken off.
@@timonsolus I could *almost* understand them taking off if the problem had "fixed itself" before, but once they leveled off and it still wasn't working, they should have circled around and landed again.
Every King Air I’ve flown has three.
Back in 1997, I was on the same exact type of plane for a flight from Oakland to Yosemite. There was a pilot and no co-pilot. The pilot arrived just before we took off. His pre flight was 5 minutes, if that much. Seeing that there was six females and myself on the plane he said "Oh good, a man. In case something goes wrong, I'll need your help in the cockpit, watch me carefully." I watched him like a hawk (he left the cockpit door open). Ceiling was 500 feet and visibility was three feet in the clouds. It must have been an ILS flight because the Yosemite runway was suddenly in front of us and an uneventful landing. Knowing what I now know about aviation, given the same circumstances, I would not get on the plane.
Had that same last thought at the start of this video.
Glad you made it !!! It's amazing that we have to trust so many aspects of our lives to people we don't even know. It can be a scary thought at times.
My favorite flight of all time was flyinging out a small airport in Montana like this, there was no door between pilots and cockpit. The pilots had to do a very steep spiral climb on takeoff they made an announcement to us that we were going to hear a lot of alarms/bells but don't worry that's normal. It was such a fun a beautiful flight.
@@scottstewart9154 How would they know when something isn't normal?
@@Alexstarfire Different alarms, different bells.
Two is one and one is none.
Both failing I would put down to the filters on the inlet air not being cleaned, and being clogged up with all sorts of debris from the cockpit. Right hand one probably clogged first, thus no rotation of the rotor, as you do need a little more suction to start it, especially if it has stopped with the erector system full open on the one side, bypassing air through the system. Probably was sluggish for a long time, till the debris built up enough, and the vacuum generator was worn, so the suction, while enough to turn off the vacuum warning capsule, was insufficient to actually start the instrument.
Going to guess the interior had been cleaned with a brush, throwing up all sorts of fluff behind the panel, and then this was gradually drawn into the suction inlets of the instruments, clogging them over time. Accident impact likely dislodged the clot of fluff, or it fell off during removal, as there was no suction holding it firmly in place.
that vacuum warning is a very important thing, not only telling you the air operated instrumentation is unreliable, but also warning you that the engine has some sort of issue, as it is generated from an air bleed from the high pressure combustion chamber, fed through an orifice and a venturi, to use the low pressure directly behind the expanding gas. Lowering combustion pressure will show up there, before almost every other instrument shows it, unless you are looking carefully at EGT and fuel flow rates, and see them start to vary slightly from optimum. However the most common causes are that either the orifice is worn, or the one rubber pipe is perished. Those though will show up on startup.
It is often obvious when someone comments on a youtube video with BS and fabricated assertions.
It is also often obvious when someone comments, who knows what they are talking about.
I believe this is a plausible diagnosis of the problem.
It is pretty important that critical components are working correctly. When the pilot tells me it will start working during the flight, I will politely and quickly leave the plane.
Except that the EFIS and the AHRS gyros that give them reference are electrically powered, not vacuum powered.
It also takes A LOT of debris to clog a gyro filter.. which is about the size of a small oil filter with a similar pleated paper element and generally changed every 500 hours. I’ve never seen one even on planes that have been sitting for a decade or more have more than a small layer of dust on them. The vacuum regulator filter (the sock filter) is more Mickey Mouse but none of that air goes to the gyro.. just the vacuum ejector. A vacuum regulator lets in air downstream so there is less vacuum.
Maybe an open vacuum line.. but that would have been obvious during the investigation.
No.. the bearings were probably shot. Pretty common for those old gyros and the force of the crash would have completely ruined them regardless. Just the witness marks on impact would have told them the gyro was stationary and not spinning.
@@Bartonovich52 Yes shot bearings very likely. thankfully I no longer have to strip and clean them, even replacing sealed bearings on synchro units was less painful, despite them being classed as non repairable, but you can always fix them if you have a large supply of donors for the parts that fail.
Sorry but id NEVER attempt to fly in Dark without ALL working instruments. VERIFIED before i leave the ground. Those are your only navigation when you’re up there without visible landmarks
Indeed, exactly.
What happened to common sense? If it's broken don't take off.
"GetThereItis" is a common problem.
Somatic illusion and tunnel-vision in instrument conditions.
Deadly banes of young pilots.
And experienced ones, evidently.
@@rickn8or if they've got a bad case of "GetThereItis," yep.
@Dennis Wilson yeah, can't possibly see where that would cause a problem.
/S
@Dennis Wilson That should not be legal.
@@Milesco Indeed.
They didn't consider the inoperative equipment to be inoperative? That just makes no sense on their part. Inoperative literally means "does not function when it should" and the attitude indicator certainly wasn't functioning when it should've been. If it needed vacuum or pressure to be operational, it would've gotten it simply from the engines powering up. Even if idle wasn't enough to get the systems going, the power applied to taxi should certainly have all systems running. If it wasn't operational by the time they reached the runway, it wasn't going to be during flight either. Or at least the odds are so much against it that no one should gamble on it, for the exact scenario we just saw.
The casual attitude of the PIC regarding the inoperative instrument was inexcusable. The FO should have asserted himself before takeoff. Nice video Allec
Amen Brother.
I would have INSISTED on a fix before flying.
Having ONLY 1 means 0 backup.
And no artificial (analog) horizon, to help level the wings ?
Seriously I don't understand the level of complacency here.
Once airborne & RS Attitude gauge remained inoperatve, FO should have immediately set up their provided Garmin Ipad with Synthetic Horizon.
This alone could have been their salvation once Gyro failed.
RIP to these two underprepared undertrained pilots & their families, in Jesus name.
@@psalm2forliberty577 Yes. RIP.
When they didn't abort the takeoff after the co-pilot's AH still wasn't working, I thought "bad move".
@@Oceans780 i believe there's a regulation that says all instruments should be working and if they don't they don't take off .
Money trumps safety. Almost all the time.
@@star43able not necessary, but the AH does not fall into the "nice to have" instruments, so a non functional one should have been a red flag. Too bad Boeing decided the attitude indicator fell into that category.
Get there itis
I work in the medical field and there have been a number of times when a physician says all is well and pushed the envelope of patient safety. The co pilot put his life in the hands of the experienced PIC and due to being deferential it cost him his life. But the PIC made multiple judgment calls that cost both of them their lives. When your back up system becomes your primary and it fails you have nothing to back you up. An accident that didn't have to happen but did, RIP.
The key thing to add is the weather. If the weather had been clear, he could have seen the horizon; that would have been his back up. In this case, you are right; he had no back up at all.
Add in the somatic illusion that comes from a tightening descending spiral *feeling* like a climb, and you have a perfect killer of a situation.
@@christosvoskresye, because "Two is one and one is none."
GMTA
@@rickn8or Get my tequila already?
I could (maybe) understand not rejecting a flight in the belief that a MEL instrument will come alive in a few moments, IF those moments are while the plane is still on the ground. To actually take off with such a critical instrument not functioning is insanity.
A duff A.I. IMC conditions, only one place I'm going and that's the airfield bar.
Sad for the co pilot, not for the captain. Should never have left the ground.
What happens when you push your chances. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. RIP these young pilots.
MEL: Take-off with one engine inoperative is not permitted: "OK, it's not working now, but that doesn't mean it's inoperative, it'll probably start once we're airborne."
I would have INSISTED on a fix before flying.
Having ONLY 1 means 0 backup.
And no artificial (analog) horizon, to help level the wings ?
Seriously I don't understand the level of complacency here.
Once airborne & RS Attitude gauge remained inoperatve, FO should have immediately set up their provided Garmin Ipad with Synthetic Horizon.
This alone could have been their salvation once Gyro failed.
RIP to these two underprepared undertrained pilots & their greiving families, in Jesus name !
41 year old Beechcraft. Might be coke dust clogging up the instruments.
Not becoming erect can always be a disaster.
It’s been a long time since I heard that song
Who cares?
About you burt?
Spatial disorientation is a bi*ch.
As soon as the auto pilot disengaged, Captain pulled back on the yoke. It's instincts saying "ok, climb a little. Better gain some altitude than CFIT" but the plane stalls because you've now pitched it too high. And you have no reference to know where the hell are you pointing at without an artificial horizon in IMC. You want to controll the spin first... but did they even realized about the spin? If so, did they know to which side was the plane spinning to? Is just like being blind! Your only instrument then are your butt cheeks, and is not very precise one.
There's the somatic illusion that comes from a tightening descending spiral that makes it feel like a climb. Your butt can lie to you.
Yes, exactly.
I'm with you. Partial panel proficiency means the ability to scan and interpret other instruments and indications to fill in for the missing one. The altimeter and VSI tell you whether you're climbing or descending, while the turn coordinator and whiskey compass tell you where you're turning (admittedly, the whiskey compass precesses and isn't precise util you settle on a heading, but it will tell you which way you're turning and how fast). If the spiral is steep enough, rudder pressures might help identify which way you're turning and give you a sense of how fast; and if you're listening, wind and engine noise will help tell you whether you're in a climb or a dive. Meaningful practice with partial panel could well have averted this accident. That lack is mostly on the airline. Mostly.
A certain case of normalization of deviance, inexperience, poor CRM, and airline management complacency killed these pilots.
I find it difficult to believe that any instrument rated pilot doesn’t practice partial panel on a regular basis.
I did, it’s not all that difficult but you need to stay current with it or you’ll get rusty to the point of hazard.
If you can't see the horizon, and you don't have a working instrument to tell you where it is, all the practice in the world is not going to help you.
This is true however, the attitude indicator is not the only reference to the horizon, the turn coordinator can also be used.
This is what’s meant by partial panel.
@@christosvoskresye If you lose your attitude indicator you use your turn coordinator instead, although it only indicates rate of turn, this is a byproduct of bank and with a slightly modified control technique a plane can be flown using it in lieu of an attitude indicator. It's a skill that must be demonstrated on the IFR checkride, but many pilots do not regularly practice it afterwards. The investigation of this particular accident found that the pilots likely had not practiced partial panel flying in quite some time, hence why they did not maintain control of the airplane after the failure of the left side AI
They probably should not have taken off. And death spirals can be very hard to recover from. That's what killed JFK Jr., probably. They were just presented with a situation beyond their flying capabilities. May they now rest. Thank you, Allec, nice video...
For all the instruments and manuals and checklists and training...one thing is usually clearly absent in a lot of these accidents....pilots for some reason or another, forget how to fly the dam plane. Planes don't simply fly out of the sky....if you know how to fly them regardless of all the bells and whistles. This is why I shudder to imagine in future years when people leave driving to their cars....
The moment I read that the first officer's attitude indicator was not working, I knew the captain was going to do what he did and ended up killing both of them for some stupid decision. A sad ending to their lives due to overconfidence and stupidity.
Partial panel training still has its merits.
One of the few times I couldn't stand to watch the impact simulation. The FO didn't deserve that ending.
Unfortunately, procedure changes always seem to come by way of an accident. They were flying a plane that was over forty years old, so it’s inevitable that something is going to fail eventually. Since they weren’t carrying any passengers, they should have aborted the flight until the problem was fixed.
Can someone PLS TELL ME how these vids are made?!? I wanna buy a flight sim game but I know NOTHIN' about gaming...never made it past Nintendo, ha. Thx in advance.
Basically, the attitude indicator was as flaccid as Pete Conrad's ...mind.
We were flying from Key West to Tampa for military detachment, same type of aircraft. Half way to Tampa the pilot say it is lunch break tells the nonpilot on of the Navy guys to keep a look out. He then pulls out a drink and a sandwich Does this for about 15 minutes till he get a radio call. Finish the flight and all where safe. O yea the guy in the copilots seat did not like to fly..
Pilots were too uninvolved with their own wellbeing that they neglected to learn to use the Ipad etc. devices provided to them by Air Tindi. 10:59
I’m not a pilot. I don’t understand
So if they would’ve pulled out their iPad
They could’ve kept flying ?
Thx
When the altimeter did not right itself, they should have turned back.
It wasn’t the altimeter, it was the HSI
I can see what went wrong here, right near the beginning - when the captain told the F/O to 'tap' on the gauge to see if it was stuck. That is absolutely the wrong thing to do. He should have said; "Scoot your seat back and raise your leg, then kick the gauge with the heel of your shoe as hard as you can! That should free something up." (And just in case the whole panel falls off, they always have their emergency chutes.) 🤗
Our bodies and our planes should all be questioned, concerned, and repaired when any part of them cannot get erect......
How many bloody checklists do there needs to be done
Should the co-pilot refuse to take off with only one ADI operating, he'd be still alive (so as the pilot). Loss of ADI is a critical failure. If you're still on the ground, it's a no go
"Assume" means you make an A*S*S of U and ME, sadly.
how original
Wtf
Qantas has a policy of 100% perfect instrumentation on checklist. I was on a flight when the clock wasn't working. We never pushed back until a replacement was fitted. This was the attitude indicator! Critical instrument! 'She'll be right' is not acceptable. RIP guys.
Qantas also has the luxury of endless taxpayer dollars to make up for income shortfalls, most airlines don't get that courtesy. There is plenty of instrumentation safe to fly without, it's why an MEL exists. The clock on nearly any aircraft is deferrable because there are two in the cockpit of modern jets and they aren't primary instrumentation. Obviously the attitude indicator wouldn't be on any MEL but "perfect" doesn't exist in aviation, at any given time 50%+ of the airborne aircraft have some fault that's been deemed inconsequential or deferred per an MEL.
Excellent job as always Allec
I thought it was time for a new video and one scroll later there you were : )
Nice job Allec!!!
When pilots accumulate a certain number of hours, around 2000 and more, it's been shown their guard for safety can get slack, and flying according to procedures can become not as proficient. This is another factor that could've played a role here with this Capt., leading to this crash.
Same thing with new motorcyclists. Right around 1k miles of experience you lose the nervousness and feel confident...too confident.
I experienced it and I've watched it happen to a lot of riders I knew. If you're lucky you only have a close call; if you're unlucky down you go.
SIR CREAT THE VEDIO FROM "AIR INDIA FLIGHT 182" Please Male a Vedio sir Big Fan From India 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
All aircraft companies pilots employees anyone LISTEN UP. COMPLACENCY. IN THIS CASE THE PRICE OF COMPLACENCY WAS TWO HUMAN LIVES. WAS IT WORTH IT? LET ME ANSWER MY OWN QUESTION LET'S MAKE IT RHETORICAL. THERE'S NO PRICE EVER WORTH A HUMAN LIFE POINT BLANK PERIOD 🤨👏💯🙌
If ONE thing is not working right...especially that one. Why did they even take off???
"GetThereItis," a fatal condition where the urge to task completion overwhelms common sense.
@@lairdcummings9092 which also ends in fatalities.
It was supposed to start working. Instead, the other one quit, too. Damn the luck!
This is one of those "look you fool" moments, prior to flight. There are ten dollar attitude indicators one can buy and mount on the dash of a plane along with electronic backup on your tablet or pad. You just have to develope an imagination when flying. There's a million things that go right every flight, it takes but one to doom it.
And I loathe to say it, 😮but better they crash with no passengers them with. If this is the attitude of the pilot and the F/O absolutely knew better, but said nothing, then he's showing the same fundamental lazy practices as the pic.
Its sad to say, but establishing absurd lax flying habits almost guaranteed this would happen.
Very sad
Very sad the pilots did not have those instruments repaired before flying the plane. The plane was old. Maybe that altitude Guage malfunctioned before?
Very sad. God rest the pilots souls.
I love watching planes crash while sitting on a flight
You are a strange bird...but hey...rock on! 🤘
I'm a flight Attendant with Delta and I watch them all the time! You're in good company!
@@aviation-zr2ln nice!
Like in the movie 'Airplane' ; the in-flight movie is not the most reassuring test film ever made.
@@MrTruckerf 😆😆😆
Personally, I would’ve not taken off if that attitude indicator wasn’t working. But that’s just me
"Don't worry about gauges not working, we'll fix it once airborne."
thank god an app on my phone fixes this problem in about 14sec and even though not ideal, worth using.
Am I the only one who reads the general information text in my head with voice of Jonathan Ares (ACI Narrator)?
A sophomoric captain it seems. Jesus, after they took-off and found there´s no reaction of the attitude indicator, why didn´t they return while they were still in sight of the departure airport for a check? Well, we will never know I guess. RIP
get-there-itis.
@@operationscomputer1478 Yes.
I would never leave the ground, if even 1 of the instruments on my aircraft, were no operating properly.
Always wear a parachute. When in doubt-bail out.
Pls add the 2021 c-130 air crash in the Philippine air force that happened last year in the Philippines
Vacuum driven anything should be abolished in aviation.
This sort of equipment is from an era when electricity was something "experimental".
However, times have changed,
we are now considering electrically driven airplanes exactly because of proven RELIABILITY.
Why does this still need to be explained ?
With hard IMC being the norm in that part of the world it's a shame the airline didn't opt for an electric standby ADI.
Now Googling partial panel flying...
If a pilot is not proficient or even just rusty it is a nightmare that frequently ends in death. Usually the vacuum pump fails in flight, but to take off with no attitude indicator is suicide. Oh, yeah, that's right, the pilot said it would come to life after they were airborne.
@@MrTruckerf And the unfortunate FO was too unexperienced to question why he would think so.
Hope the FO had time to give the Captain a good smack...
Boss, it's ALTITUDE not ATTITUDE.
The FO should have stopped the flight. The right AH is required by the MEL when a SIC is flying, even if he is just pilot monitoring.
hey, you make great videos, but can u please make a video about the plane crash of "the miracle of the andes" the story of 1973
Kinda like
JFK jr
Kobe
Thank you Allec
What was the reason of the crash?
Is anyone else like me?...I automatically hit the "Like" button before I even watch the video! I know the video is going to be good so I save myself the trouble of hitting it later! 😂 Thanks Allec for all the great videos!
I thought pilots are supposed to be very smart. I could never understand these pilots who make these crazy decisions to fly anyway when they have an aircraft with any inoperative system let alone a primary flight instrument. It's one thing if an instrument or flight control fails in flight but if you see and know that you have a bad instrument on the ground and you take off anyway, then you're not very smart. Insist on a perfect airplane especially when safety is concerned, the law should back you up even if your employers won't.
Someone please help me. Why pilots couldn't control the plane and stop that spiral dive?
Most likely spatial disorientation..
It is very hard to read the white text
Appears to be a lack of common sense here. Guess was a positioning flight as there were no passengers on board, even if there were, surely you would get it checked ? Perhaps it was as well there was no one else on board.
Beep beep PULL UP
That distorted guitar is really incongruous in this videos of typically somber note.
May the pilots Rest In Peace
Another spoiler. No sense bothering to watch now. It's exactly the same as someone telling the end of a movie before anyone has had a chance to watch
@@donnabaardsen5372 calm down
@@donnabaardsen5372 maybe instead of scrolling through the comments, you should put a ‘thinking cap’ on.
So, I'm guessing the pilots had a situational unawareness, right?
Too sad.
Nice! And I’m from Canada
Never rely on "moody" instruments!
practice partial panel !!
Definitely the first time on this channel that something not being erect led to a crash
@@dirkjanriezebos2240 “cock up?”
@@JosephStalin-yk2hd I think he meant 'cockpit', but who knows?
@@MrTruckerf No, he meant cock up. It's a widely used British slang term for screw up.
Wait, are they flying 9 AM or 9 PM. It was obviously an evening, not morning flight.
Light conditions in northern latitudes can be weird. In winter, norther latitudes have *very* short daylight. Go far enough north, and there are days with *zero* sunrise.
In Alaska that time of year daylight is like nighttime elsewhere thats why.
I just figured low visibility.
Why they blaming this on their inability to use ForeFlight in a smart way? There is hardly any standardized training on how to use it.
Not so much blame as noticing that the crash did not have to be inevitable, as there was recourse - *had* they received *any* familiarization with the tool's capability.
I know our FAA ops inspector would be frothing at the mouth if our company even though of training pilots that ForeFlight could be used to substitute primary navigation in an emergency. I can almost hear him saying how that would provide crew with a false sense of security and encourage them to use it even in non-emergency situations when we should just train them not to take off with inop equipment that hasn't been deferred per the MEL.
Sigh!
How do you fly without AI operating
This is what's called "partial panel" operation. You need to use the backup instruments - the T/S or the Turn Coordinator.
Well, you shouldn't if you can help it.
"The plane is a 41 year old..." That's when I was glad that there were only two people aboard.
Deep down, I feel that way about buildings. I have some deep fear (rarely activated) that an old building might just be on the point of collapse. Years ago, this combined with my fear of heights (also rarely a problem, I even like the window seat on a plane) on the towers of Notre Dame cathedral in Paris so that I *HAD* to get down. Knowing that the fear is irrational does not make it go away.
Hundred year old aircraft fly perfectly safely ('Jenny' biplanes); it's the material condition of the aircraft that matters there. Poor maintenance, or just broken equipment, can happen aircraft of any age.
41 year old aircraft doesn't actually mean a lot if its well maintained
@@DropdudeJohn indeed. There are a few instances of B-52s being flown by the *grandsons* of their original crew.
41 years old is nothing. There are DC-3s from the early 1940s still operating commercially.
whati, an airport located in Canada, that's it ;))
Ditch the awful music. It really is bad.
Some pilots are so reckless that they deserve to crash. It's just a shame that this negligent captain killed his F/O as well.
What the crews' names? Too dark, again.
Then look in Wikipedia.
Thank you very much for covering this up! They simply had no chance with their lack of training and experience. RIP.
Don't let my first comment distract you from the fact that 343 Industries has essentially ruined the Halo series.
Why are you talking about a video game that has nothing to do-
with the video?
Flying Sightless | Air Tindi Flight 503
Flying Sightless | Air Tindi Flight 503