THE Bottom Tier
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- Опубликовано: 8 окт 2020
- Lets Briefly talk about what makes a bottom tier in fighting games, and then get to the REAL meat and potatoes and talk about my FAVOURITE (yes that is spelt correctly I'm British) bottom tier :)
Dr B video - • [TAS] Tekken 3 - Dr. B...
Petshop video - • JJBA: HFTF - Pet Shop ...
Just pick a top tier - • Sanford Kelly | "Pick ...
Games shown (in order):
Tekken 7
Rising thunder
Guilty gear Xrd Rev 2
King of fighters 2002 unlimited match
Killer instinct
Es laf ++
Power Rangers Battle for the Grid
Street fighter 5
Dragonball Fighterz
Ultra Street fighter 4
Under night in birth Exe:late[clr]
Street fighter 3rd strike
Samurai Shodown 5 Special
Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3
Dark souls
Vampire Saviour 3
/ leonmassive 
Игры
I've had quite a few people point out some of the inaccuracies in this video, Primarily that he actually does have quite good neutral. After a couple of you got into contact with me, you've shown me how 12 could be played in alternative ways, and whilst he is still VERY bad, he's not entirely AWFUL because of some of the examples I've used in this video. Thank you to everyone who got in contact and showed me how he could be played more effectively.
They are liars. This guy fights with lights and throws.
oo i guess i'm the second comment >:)
do u want 2 play gg
Gotta be honest, nice video and all but i had to turn it off because you seemed so focused on creating an argument based on Twelve, you should have gone with Sean.
Sean is way worse from a design standpoint, he is another shoto in a game with lots of shotos. Sean has no viable specials when compared to the other shotos and his shoto normals may look like any other shotos but all of his frame data is way worse, he doesnt add anything to the game and is basically just the worst shoto.
Sean could be considered the Dan of 3s but he is lacking the goofey charme, its more likely that Capcom over compensated in nerfing Sean because he was toptier in sf3 second impact, who knows
I also wanna not that unsafe moves on hit were something you could find in a lot of games back then.
@@MrBroken030 Somebody saw Baf's Sean vid? I'm still with Twelve being worse. At least Sean has mixes and damage output even if a lot of his 2 in 1's can miss or be punished. Twelve's combo routes are really bad. Gotta work hard for throws or fend off with light attacks and hope you land SA.
Twelve is called twelve since he's minus twelve on everything
Bruh lmaooooo
and he needs to win 12 interactions to maybe win
@@gypsysprite4824 more
he's called twelve because he dozen do any damage
@@manuelamarillo2426 🏅
"punishable on hit" is the kind of thing i have nightmares about
Punishable on hit is just plain bad game design. Yet Capcom for some reason kept it as late as SF4. (T-Hawk, Blanka, Vega, and several others) They didn't get rid of it until USF4
@@xaviervega468 actually there are good amount of moves in sf5 that are punishable on hit
@@chachawho435 Which ones? I haven't anything punishable like Blanka's Fierce ball was in SF4(until Ultra) People were punishing that on hit with their ultras.
@@xaviervega468 urien mk tackle is actually punishable on hit if not spaced right
Almost all of smash bros
The fanbase: "Twelve's best move is turning into another character so you don't have to play as Twelve."
Capcom: "Interesting..."
And then Eleven was born.
Literally Zelda in Melee
And brawl ivesare
@@bugandoamente251 eleven seems to be based on double from skull girls though
@@NeostormXLMAX no he's based on mokujin if anything, double is her own character
The second you called him cute I laughed my ass off, instantly realizing this is a hopeless cry from a twelve main
Why on earth would you do something so stupid?
@@chiarosuburekeni9325 people main Little Mac in Smash...so its not too rare to see something similar
Man its sad knowing that im a twelve main and a little mac main
Little Mac at least is very fast and has high damage output. Sure, he's garbage. But at least he's functional.
@@oragnutanggang3921 that would be one point to Mac
I have no neutral and I must scream
12 has one of the strongest neutrals in 3s
Mateo It’s a joke
Minecraft Steve
theres no neutral, take off your gi
@@Unit_00 By strongest, you mean the only thing he can do, which may lead you to think neutral is good for him.
Another reason to play Twelve:
He's really well animated. He looks cool when he's using his weird shapeshifting powers ok!?
I never played Third Strike, but you are right. I looked at him and was like: "This dood looks cool, like an earlier version of merkava"
3rd strike is fun as hell love the animations
@@cosmik5938 best looking fighting game
It's like having the T1000 in Street Fighter.
@@myboy_ subjectively, kof 13 is, but 3s still looks amazing
Being punished for walking with an anti-air is the funniest shit I have ever seen
fr
"I'm twelve & what is this?"
Didnt expect to see you here
It's ya boi
@@chJohnJobs I main Q. He's based on the main character of Robot Detective K.
ken was asserting his dominance by stating who he mains
This is the most **unnecessarily** hostile reply section to a checkmark I've ever seen.
Kenny's content is close to puppy rescue in wholesomeness. Back the frick off.
Aight got your message
Twelve is the Dark souls of fighting games
He glides, stabs, squeeze, rolls and repeats.
A shoto's worse nightmare unless you're a great gouki player
Yeah, I got the picture!
dark souls is the dark souls of dark souls games.
Q non approva per nulla.
@@frostywasp1743 laughs in ryu daijin radoken
Twelve pisses me off because he's so cool.
He's like a white venom in a femto helmet and his name is Twelve! He's so much better than Seth in terms of design as a weird experiment bioweapon character, but this appearance in 3rd strike is the LEAST shafted he's ever been.
He's just shit and capcom doesn't care about him.
For real, they have this conceptually amazing character right here and just throw them in the trash!
twelve deserves to be better. such a cool character that’s horrible in game play
My biggest gripe with Twelve is that he feels out of place. Every character before and after has shared similar themes and designs, but Twelve feels like he's a Darkstalkers character from a game that was never made. I like his design, it's sick as fuck, it just feels like he doesn't belong HERE.
And they speak binary
And now we have Eleven.
I like how Twelve, a character who seems to have been designed to be at least somewhat relevant, is somehow worse than Little Mac, a character who literally sacrifices an axis of movement and options that basically defines the Smash series.
But consider, "how dare you land?" "you thought you could just jump near me?" and the classic "what's knockback?"
@@grantflippin7808 Exactly, Little Mac at least has punishes. And he's just a manlet boxer.
@@matthewlong7547 may i introduce you to melee bowser and brawl ganon.
@@williamhowells806 brawl Ivysaur as well✔️
Yeah. Because mac is the same as Hugo.
Yes he gives up all that...but he does so in exchange for being ridiculous in ground combat.
He is not even close to being the worst smash bros character, as others have suggested.
Dudley: "Being British"
Very legitimate point from a fellow distinguised gentleman.
The worst part about Twelve is how cool he is, he is one of the coolest and most original characters in the game (maybe even SF in general), so much wasted potential
Bro calm down
He's literally play doh jack (the android from tekken)
@@zaidhikmet4799 jokes on you that makes him look cooler
He has a weird physique, like half Bridgman model and half hentai goblin
Necro and oro are objectively more cool than him. But he’s cool
@@kujo4388 Oro looks like a deformed Homer simpson
Next time on Bo'om tier:
Sean remembers he was top tier.
Hugo heads down to the Blacksmith so that he can get armor on EVERYTHING
and Twelve gets removed from the game, put out of his suffering.
hugo i have crack addiction i am die
and Remy... wait, who's this guy? who invited you, buddy?
Q: bro, just wait 2 more games.
Ibuki: the female lead of this game was supposed to be ME!!!
Blessedbottomgearposting
@@zaidhikmet4799 goddang, that just reminded me of how capcom did Ibuki dirty in terms of story.
2i: Gets some files or some shit, never mentioned again
3s: F r i e n d s
SSFIV : " I'm Horny! "
SFV : Even Dan gets treated better than this joke character. Calling it now.
"All I did was walk forward at full screen why am I punished by an anti-air?"
hugo has problems
And now his LESS ADVANCED PREQUEL is coming to sfv...gods save us all.
And turns out his PREQUEL is better than him since it's just the random button in character form
Isn't Necro also a less advanced version of Twelve?
@@megaman7424 Necro's just Twelve and Dhalsim's electric love child...
@@leviathetempest he's more of Dhalsim's and Blanka's love child.
If Eleven just copies fighters, and Twelve has his own move set, what will Thirteen be?
> Says "Dumpster Fire"
> Shows a picture of Sword Art Online
I respect you as an equal now.
hating sao is so 2008 dude
@@HadirUntukAnda 2008 were easier times.
@@HadirUntukAnda it being 2020 doesn't make SAO a good anime lmao
It had so much potential, then it became a clusterfuck
@@HadirUntukAnda
My man thinks saying sao is overhated makes it good somehow
Can we talk about that beautiful transition at 0:58 for a second?
You're right that's an awesome transition
No
I feel this. When I introduce fighting games to my friends I always say: "Fuck tier lists pick who you like...not that one tho" just to let them suffer less and able to continue playing.
Huh??? Twelve isint even the worst character in the game??? If you would “refuse to let your friend play him” (I doubt you’ve ever actually played the game) shouldn’t you stop him from playing Shaun?!?
Longtime 3s player here, and over the years I've played some really strong twelves. First I wanna say he's probably bottom 2 in the game, so no argument that he's a low tier, though I do think sean is comfortably worse. But I'd say you're critically undervaluing certain tools he has, such as close MP, his jabs, and maybe back MK, and more notably his instant air dash pressure. And I think you'd probably be complaining about different things if you were a more skilled twelve player, since I think you've incorrectly identified some things as weaknesses. I agree that twelve has abysmal damage and no combo routes (which is the main reason he has low damage) . Certain attacks like NDL and st. HK being punishable on hit is stupid but it isn't a huge tier factor, since most characters can't punish them, and the ones that can, if you know not to use them you won't eat those supers. Twelve doesn't exactly fall to pieces from losing st. HK, if anything it's kind of a crutch button due to its good damage and range being useful on paper but its long commitment and reactable startup making it bad in practice.
I'd say twelve's movement and neutral is actually well above average in 3s, and he actually has a lot of screen control vs the vast majority of the cast. Air dash pressure is really strong and he can even punish the opponents who look for a parry by doing instant air dash into a heavy normal (which causes twelve to land without ever hitting) and throwing them. Even if they try to tech the throw you can let the air dash hang a bit to get them to whiff the throw before you whiff your normal to land, and if they're trying to anti air you you can mix it up with j. MP or j. MK to interrupt their motion or counterhit their normal. Combined with the good reach, good recovery, and extremely low commitment of his light normals, he actually finds hits very easily.
Of course the downside is that a jab or short or throw does absolutely pitiful damage in 3s, so even though you might be hitting them 3x for every time they hit you they might still be coming out ahead. You can see this in most match footage from pro twelve players (I recommend yamazaki or yama) that twelve actually finds hits very easily, but the character fundamentally takes 60 seconds to win but only 20 seconds to lose. Parries also fuck twelve over, because his strongest punish after a parry is usually something like a mashed EX AXE (or close strong SA1 if you have it), but if the opponent fails a parry against twelve they eat a jab whereas if they succeed with a parry twelve eats a 20-50% damage punish depending on how much meter they can invest.
I think overall you're selling twelve short if you say he has terrible neutral, but of course you're right about his terrible damage and combos and that's the reason he's a bottom tier. This might be very controversial, but I think Chun Li has similarly bad punish combos, bad special moves, and she also relies on a bunch of buttons with good priority but awful damage, forcing her to rely on 2-3 good pokes until she can stock a meter. But Chun Li''s kara throw, low forward, and excellent super all happen to work together excellently to make her a top tier. Both Chun Li and Twelve debuted in the SF3 series in third strike, and I think it's understandable that devs probably wouldn't have guessed one would be at the top of the pack and the other would be at the bottom when their match objectives are pretty similar.
Remember, characters who dominate neutral are usually top tier in fighting games (see: dhalsim) so twelve was an experiment in how bad you'd have to make the other parts of a neutral-dominant character in order for them to be competitive with the rest of the cast. Twelve was a failure but he was an important failure, and it's probably thanks to him we have characters like SFV dhalsim and menat who have low damage, great buttons, and are (relatively) balanced with the rest of the cast.
Edit: Oh yeah SA3 is a meme, like 90% of twelve players pick SA1. The low profile and multiple hits make it a very good anti air and it's actually not too hard to hit confirm with stuff like low short xx LP AXE, strong xx LP AXE, or low short low short xx SA1. Unlike his other two supers, SA1 actually works after a parry, which IMO instantly makes it the best of the three, and so it's the thing that actually allows twelve to pack a punch behind his attacks and it's the thing which makes playing recklessly aggressively against him dangerous. The two bars are also very useful since twelve's 4 EX moves are all quite good, like genuinely good lol
hi baf omg
extremely informative. as someone that doesn't care about 3s i can take that sometimes a "new" archetype can easily fall into bottom or top tier. now we live in the patches timeline so i'd like to ask you if you'd rather have an unintentional bottom tier patched asap or if it would be best to wait and see how players develop it. imo it's easier to wait to buff a bottom tier than nerf a meta defining top tier. having your main be bottom tier might not be as bad as an experience, it might create strong bonds between players and incentivize esperimentation
It makes me so happy to read someone so passionate about twelve. This comment was very informative, and I love it.
It’s BAF
Thank you baf for saving the comment section
Inb4 you become the next core a gaming
Fr though
This man is def the next core a gaming
Leon's much less of a bore to sit through though.
@@MundoSD core a gaming isnt boring you heathen
Dude I wouldnt even mind his stuff is good
Welcome to Bottom Tier mates
Tonight, James falls over
Jeremy eats a Raging Demon
And Richard hits Ryu with a 2002 Toyota Corolla
Edit: Found out that someone already did (somthing similar to) this
My theory is that twelve is the unfinished version on Necro, like they have the same streching ability and a pale uncanny skin, and they both are from the russian stage. I will not be surprised if twelve's backstory is the product of a failed experiment or something
The funny thing is it's the opposite, in lore Twelve is supposed to be a super soldier blob thing based off of Necro and designed to be superior to him.
I hope we see more evolutions of Twelve. I actually made a concept theme for Thirteen if you want to check that out.
6:22 nice rollback
I wish I understood what happened there
@@noobyduder7668 There's a video by coreA gaming that explains it perfectly: ruclips.net/video/0NLe4IpdS1w/видео.html (start it at 4:33 for the 3S bit, but entire video is worth watching)
@@noobyduder7668 I believe the Ibuki was crouched before the MK hit (in Ken's state), however, in Ibuki's state she let go of crouch and got hit standing. So we see Ken's game state expecting Ibuki to still be crouching and getting hit, giving him the KO, but in reality Ibuki was hit standing, and the game corrects itself by the rolling back netcode, so the MK does do a little less damage, and not KOing.
The tragedy of 12 is that its best move is turning into a different character.
SA1 is actually his best super, SA3 is pretty bad
Maximilian dood once said that and ppl just started to believe it as truth
ruclips.net/video/HfHhJEpVkSI/видео.html
@@Unit_00 Max is a scrub.
It's a joke, lad.
@@supur9298 I've definitely seen people talking about 12 and saying that while believing it's true
10/10
wasn't paying attention because I was hypnotized by Hugo's probably brain damage-induced wobbling for two-thirds of the video
The Chin sound effect gets me every time.
As the sole Twelve main in Europe, I have got some comments to make.
1. Invisibility is shockingly good, like, people say you can just dp or anti air Twelve once he is on an Air Dash but imagine whiffing an uppercut only to realize Twelve didn't even leave the ground, or not knowing where the fuck Twelve is going to attack you from. cr.lk xx Light A.X.E xx SA1 or the same but now he starts with high j.hk? Hell, he can just throw you and start all over again. You can set it up after throw and supers, and that's kind of your setplay honestly. Treat him like Q. When you can safely taunt, you should taunt.
2. Hell no SA3 is garbage. No access to Supers or EX Moves of any kind and you got a +60 frame recovery animation where you take x1.5 the damage. The only MU I would say you can consider it is Akuma since most of His Combos are meterless anyways since he doesn't have any EX. SA1 is your Go to with low profile (Parry into SA1 beats a lot of scenarios like Denjin and Aegis) and 2 Bars.
3. Overall I'd say both Sean and Remy are worse. Sean is even more gimmicky than Twelve and always has the "just play ken dude" aura, and Remy is in the wrong game. Charge zoners in a game that gives you meter with parry and Supers that just, don't work sometimes ?
4. You forgot to mention st.mk is super jump cancellable on hit and block, meaning Twelve can jump back and keep Airdash pressure or try to bait any attempt to punish him with Air A.X.E since it stops your momentum. That and st.mp I would say are his best buttons.
Overall I am not saying Twelve is now suddenly good no he is trash this is 3rd Strike you EXPECTED BALANCE?!
But I do feel he gets undervalued. Not above bottom tier, tho.
GoldenGoldy 01 finally someone else who plays twelve
Thanks man. The entire video I thought "why is hugo the bottom tier comparison? Where's sean?"
@@Mcraisins851 Hugo in the right hands is super scary. Just like Q, the better you get at parrying, the stronger they become. Wouldn't put them above mid to low tier tho, just, why bottom?
It was probably to segway into how Grapplers, even as Bottom tiers, have a very clear gameplan and win condition, but like, 3S Hugo is NOT that grappler.
@@weska_ggs4793 Abdominance, bitch!
Twleve Is pretty fun I have dabbled in every 3s char over the years apart from sean and remy. I would say remy is better then sean and twelve. On surface twelve seems the worst but sean is extremely gimmicky...Hes always one parry away from eating punishment I think twelve has two play styles you can do some run away and play lame and once you have meter can land a medium kick -jump cancel- super. I like 12 though just be unpredictable and frustrating and hes fun. To say hugo is weak in 3s is pretty crazy as hes a monster. hes got easy damage, parry super, good pokes standing light kick is hella fast. just watch hayao and you will think hugos insane. I do think remy is better then 12 his charge partitioning and few tricks make him kinda stronger but like sean hes so easy to parry.
oh you think that number fills you with anxiety?
well how about this?
+1
+2, someone check if he's ok
+3
*They’re already dead*
@@mrlakiro5526 NANI!?
Oh yeah? you think that's tough?
check
this
out
-1
+69
I love low-tier characters. They're often the kind of specific, specialised styles of play that I always enjoy.
Little Mac and Incineroar in SSBU are considered D or F-tier depending on who you ask but the Boxer and Wrestler style is designed so perfectly and so 'laser-focused' that they're satisfying as fuck to play. Voldo and Yoshimitsu were my jam in I guess what people would call more "Traditional fighting games".
They're what some people call 'gimped' characters. Characters so fucking good at one thing that everything has to suffer because of it. Anyone who plays SSBU knows that Little Mac's ariels are garbo and his recovery is pitifully average and that Incineroars running speed is slower than pensioners during off-peak in a town centre. If you make anything else about these characters better they blow through the roof and become A-tier or S-tier from minor, minor changes. So they're a balancing nightmare that people just prefer to keep low-tier because it's easier to balance that way.
I can't get enough of that shit though.
Super armor Smash attacks Super armor Smash attacks
I identify with this thinking, too. It's so interesting to have a character that is considered so lacking compared to the rest of the cast that you'd have to be insane to pick them up, but they usually have a cool quality to them that attracts you/it can be fun to start at a disadvantage and *potentially* make them a threat.
Update, Incineroar is good now lmao
i love how a picture of SAO appeared when leon said "Dumpster fire".
As a person who only started playing Melty Blood. I can confirm that the Necos are only good for trolling. And other things if you can play it right idk.
If someone thinks their character is bad, just show them either of the nekos’ airdash
@@Vsolid **roket go brrrrrrrrrrrrrr**
I mean, Neco Arc Chaos has at lest some neutral
Every cat except for Cresent Neco Arc is bad. She is also not the best, but she has the best advantage on block like in the game, a very short but 2 frame combo starter with 2A and really dumb oki in the corner (okay oki outside of corner). She also has the best back dash that can be canceled from any normal and a ghetto roman cancel in the form of 421C which lets her combo off 236B (and sometimes relaunch if rng is good), can be used to react to moves and alter tech timing. The big problems are low damage and very small moves, which makes Nero actually one of the hardest matchups I've ever played. Also, a cat beat GO1 once lol.
The rest of the cats basically have less strengths than C-Neco Arc and more weaknesses, don't play them.
I love the use of LISA music in this, plus getting to hear someone talk about Twelve at any length is interesting.
I hope you're happy, 11's coming back in street fighter V..... as the random character button
I feel like they just thought giving him invisibility would be legitimately broken and toned down his everything else to overcompensate
I love playing as Hugo. And just like you said, as a casual player who's not terribly interested in tier lists, I'm highly aware that he's far from the best choice; I play him mostly because I like his exaggerated character, and for the occasional satisfaction of humiliating someone by 2:22 ass-ing them to death.
It’s become harder and harder to say FIIIIRST now Leon I’m proud of u
0:58 that transition is amazing
That Ibuki trying to kill with taunt lmao 7:42
5:33 "Riot levels of balance" Uhhh, i felt that
Bold of you to assume that Goro Daimon is anything other than high-medium tier across all kof games
And Waldstein was top-tier at one point. He's still really good
Zangief is also almost always mid-tier, sometimes even high tier
5:32 * *Riot levels of balance* *
You got me here!
Nice one!
BTW Leona should totally get buffed
"The most disfunctional low tier you've ever seen." god forbid this man ever finds about Bowser in melee.
Smash isn't a real fighting game, so I imagine he won't.
@@implord4197 I just came back from grappling your mom and that's not what she said
@@implord4197 Leon was literally a Melee player in the past you dweeb
I absolutely LOVE your channel, b u t you were really cherrypicking with the chunli supers vs 12. Chun li can punish almost ANYTHING with her super, and 12 actually has really good neutral. The problem with him is neutral is *all he has*, forcing him to win over and over and over again, as opposed to another good neutral character like chun or ken who deal enough damage after a won interaction to make them worth playing.
Oh I definitely cherry picked it, for the most part I don't expect most of my audience to have played then game I talk about and so I pick the examples that most clearly show the point I'm trying to make instead of having to explain examples that could make things look different to the point I'm trying to make. Honestly I did twelve dirty in this video, however... Content BAYBEEEE B^)
I want this sentient blob to come back. He's probably never going to, but I want him back
I dont play street fighter but same
The stars have aligned and we now have...bootleg Mokujin.
@@SuperLlama42 I saw that, and uh...its a sentient blob alright. Not quite the sentient blob I had in mind however
to me tiers have always been a, somewhat subjective, answer to the question: "how much effort do you need to put in with a character to get a certain result?" (the result being winning). With low tiers the answer is usually: "plenty, proportionally more then characters in higher tiers" while high tiers give some variation on: "not nearly as much other characters in the game, though (usually) not brainless" and TOP tiers give the answer: "no effort at all lol just win" and if a game has a tier like that it usually means it's not worth playing(online at least).
Bottom tiers though? The answer is almost always: "you can't. no result here. any effort you put into trying to win with this character is significantly higher than the effort put in by the developers in making this character playable at all"
"Part of the satisfaction comes from how outmatched you feel"
>Ceaseless Discharge
I mean, Dark Souls is hard for everyone I guess.
4:30 Yes.
I love his picture by his healthbar. He looks so janky lol
It looks like he’s looking up with his bottom lip sticking out as if he’s about to cry
LISA: The Painful has such a good soundtrack.
"dumpster fires"
shows sao
0:55 Yeah, Little Mac would love to hear that.
Hi there. I play Little Mac. Little bastard got me tons of wins.
There's another way of using weak characters in team battlers. You might not want to pick them to actually do any fighting and instead use them for their assists.
Krilin in DBFZ comes to mind really.
KoF doesn't have assists, its a strike-out format rather than a tag-fighter, so the drunk man is genuinely just a weird low tier
Ah, like Cap'n Com in MvC2. Nothing to write much about, but BOY is Corridor one of the assists of all time.
3:14 you earned a subscription
"Why pick this character at all?"
I think playing bottom teir characters is fun. I liked seeing Tekken's Gigas in the beginning because I used to main him. Beating someone with a bottom teir just says "I'm so much better than you that I can beat you even with the biggest disadvantage possible." If you can play Bowser in Melee and win, then you deserve MAD PROPS no matter who your opponent is.
1:33 a really good example of this is Smash Melee and Ultimate, In Ultimate almost every character is good in a way, while Melee has Fox. I also think is is why Ultimate has multiple tier lists with either slight or drastic variations to each other while Melee has tier lists that are almost always the same.
It's super cool seeing a channel with such greatly edited and written videos on fighting games get this kind of recognition over the past few weeks, keep making videos!
I think he comes from older days where you and your brother had a single SNES and if someone was significantly better at the game you still needed some characters you could use to be roughly on par with your only available training partner. We could call it a "handicap" character. Their inadequacy is not for laughs, not a consequence of their focus. It is literarily what they are designed to be.
Got recommended this again shortly after seeing the SF5 Eleven reveal. They knew not to even try to give him his own move set, so now he's straight-up Mokujin.
However the name Eleven implies he came before Twelve, even though 11 can become other people permanently and 12 can only do it for a few seconds.
What went wrong with THAT science project!?
"Dumpster fire..*
-Shows sword art online
Ahhh, I see I see
I remember when i introduced my Friends to 3S and i told them Twelve was High Tier lmfao
6:05 I remember trying to learn how to play street fighter and everyone told me "just spam low forward"
I disagree somewhat with your part on Hugo - In EVO 2015, Alex Valle (Top 15 in the US at BEST), played Hugo (extremely slow grappler, ""low tier""), and beat Bonchan (Top 5 in the world, the best Sagat in the world), playing Sagat (arguably the best zoner in SF4, mid-high tier) which as you pointed out is a grapplers nightmare.
Yet Valle didn't just win, he beat Bonchans *ass*. If I recall, he didn't lose a single round.
Japan viewed Hugo as bottom tier but the rest of the world disagreed - his d,n,d MK (the hop knee) is useful as it goes through projectiles, and he can clap in neutral to destroy the projectile and build meter. Not to mention his array of overheads, the huge range of some of his normals and the ridiculous frame advantage you got on block from the clap.
The beeping at 11:00 I thought I was going fucking insane, I kept looking out my window for some construction vehicle
The algorithm has brought me to your videos and I have been binging them nonstop. Great content my friend (even if I may not understand everything most of the time LOL).
FGC lingo is a lot to take let me confuse you some more! lol www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/legend.php | Tekken specific one's www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/wiki/Tekken_Jargon
nice piece on tons of terms www.gameskinny.com/64mo1/fighting-game-terms-a-glossary-for-new-players very good piece on most basic terms.
soul calibur terms www.neoseeker.com/forums/36416/t927456-soul-calibur-terminology/
now wake up DP (not what your thinking if your that type of degen like me LOL) DP = Dragon Punch it's for all shoryuken type moves
I have no idea what you are talking about but i am watching this anyway.
context: I am at 4:42 in the video. ok, I am not a fighting game player. I played ssb melee a lot as a kid, but that's about it. the few fighting games I've played were in arcades or at friends houses. and funnily enough, twelve is who I gravitated to when playing street fighter. don't even remember which one tbh, but I remember loving how he felt. his animation is so damn snappy, and I loved the character design. (prometheus lookin-ass lmao.) I had no idea they were awful, because I actually did pretty decent. I'm excited to see where this video goes.
EDIT: omg he's bad. I've at least watched enough fighting game content to know this is bad.
EDIT 2: correct, I am a bottom bitch.
EDIT 3: YES, HE LOOKS GREAT!!! I LOVE they're animation. that's really all that caught me. luckily I'm casual enough that I can fun with them! this video is fucking great.
I don't know why, but if a character is Big and "Bottom Tier", I usually enjoy those characters the most. That's why I main Gigas in Tekken 7 and Hugo in SF4.
E. Honda in SF4 AE was my first main in an online fighting game. I would just counter hit people with headbutt, jump h.p, and blast st. h.k when ever I thought I could
I was like "look at this damage without any combos, this guy is broken!"
Fixed Twelve: highlight its movement options by improving movement options and give them one of the best walk speeds outside of rushdown, increasing hp to one of the best outside of grapplers, improve frame data slightly throughout their kit, and give them footies-range charged command throw moves (maybe make one of its supers a low-damage, hard but not impossible to react to full screen command throw that can grapple targets in the air on the ground depending on if you use punch (air) or kick (ground) after a motion input. The throw pulls or pushes the opponent to half-screen and puts them in a knock-down state.)
Bro, he's a neutral based hit & run who is way too meter reliant, he's not a grappler my guy, and he really doesn't need to be
@@megamansoupreme7122 I was thinking about if Twelve was something like Merkava then he might be viable.
@@giantdinoboy8264 Maybe, but it's completely against the playstyle he has currently, like an entirely different character
4:26)
"And no, I won't take Hugo as a rebuttal."
Would Third Strike Sean be a good rebuttal then?
I come back to this video every now and then, never fails to make me laugh.
There's something magical about the phrase "dumpster baby" that tickles the funny bone just right.
Your editing does such a great job of flowing with what you're saying and keeps my attention for every second, this is incredible.
Kinda expected you to talk about Twelve, I remember you talking about him in another video about how awful he is.
Love the breakdown & focus, It's awesome to still see 3rd Strike mentioned 2 decades later outside of the audio design!
3rd Strike is truly a fine wine. 21 years later and I'm still playing
I've rewatched this a few times.
Your passion is infectious.
And now Eleven is coming to SFV, hope he is going to be better, since he is canonically weaker than Twelve
I made a theme song for a concept of Thirteen for Street Fighter 6. I hope he turns out way cooler.
Got it
Twelve is a character you pick to dunk on your little brother
can i just say that the transition at the 1st minute mark is the smoothest i've ever seen on youtube
I just randomly found your channel and it's probably the best thing I've had happen in recent memory
I love/hate hugos character design, he looks so un-human its just weird but at the same time i cant take my eyes off him when hes played, like you keep watching that car accident instead of the road for longer than you reasonably should
The funny thing about him is that he's based on a real person- Andre the giant.
Kusaregedo is actually considered the best character in Samsho5sp.
What a great channel to come across, looking forward to binging through all of your videos
I was laughing at twelve the moment you showed "that he can do this" his fookin idle animation killed me
I always see characters like this as a way to flex your fundamentals. Winning with them is basically saying "My knowledge of the game is so on point, that I can take the worst character ever designed that has zero combo play and STILL kick your ass".
"It's like playing Dark Souls"
*shows footage of the boss you can easily kill while naked*
9:12 the "except me" is only 2 words and yet its the funniest bit in the entire video imo
The first character I played in 3rd strike was twelve because 1) I was very young and didn't know better 2) I thought he looked cool. Much later on, I picked up Makoto, and oh my God the difference between playing a husk of a character like twelve and a high tier like Makoto is incredible.
- I know, your animations are gorgeous, but stop giving Twelve's attacks so many recovery frames, I beg you!
- NO, I AM ANIMOOOOOOOTING
Holy shit this channel's growing fast! You deserve it man
Man, I found your channel today and it's one of the best that I have found in recent memory.
Top quality fighting game content, yes, I would like some more please.
Have another sub!
tbh it makes me a little bit sad that this video gave twelve such a terrible reputation, he's definitely a really bad character but he's not dysfunctional by any stretch, and he also has a few cool things that make him really unique and really fun, his airdash gives him pretty great air mobility since it can be cancelled at any point with any air move and it also restarts if you airdash into the wall, his walk can low profile projectiles and certain jump-ins, AXE is a really hard to parry anti-air since he can mix up the timing and the amount of hits, ex NDL is a fast tracking projectile that's 0 on block and knocks down on hit. Twelve may be a low tier, but he's a functional character and he doesn't quite play like anyone else in street fighter, i quite enjoy playing him
I like having a bad reputation on a character because it feels better to beat people with him. Also sorry for the shameless plug but could you check out my concept theme for Thirteen?
Bottom tier? That British show about cars?
And now we have Eleven.
Got a random recommendation, checked it out, fucking funny as hell, enlightening, and fast-paced entertaining editing, exactly the kind of shit I love in a fighting game RUclipsr. Awesome stuff My Man.
Dude this video is such high quality. Love it, keep it up
I find it amazing that they designed this guy so poorly that becoming _genuinely unreadable_ for a few seconds does nothing to help his character.
I still don't know how Alex Valle beat Bonchan's Sagat with Hugo when it's like a 9-1 matchup, I watch the set daily and I still don't understand. It makes me question everything about low tiers.
because bonchan was scared of getting command grabbed the entire time
Grapplers are in all games kinda special case of low tier, they are considered low not because they're bad (usually), but as Leon mentioned: Lack of consistency. Only thing that average grappler player can rely on, else than damage, is mindgame, you need to train your opponent to do certain things as you wish, and that's the problem, because people can see through it.
@@shympek8627 that's where their power comes into play, especially in neutral. I slap people like they owe me money with Hugo in 3s. His MP covers some space has a slight forward movement
Your use of Lisa music makes me so happy. Thank you Leon.
that summer love track took out of guard, great taste in music and great video