maybe you should research the "why and hows", you may find your answers. But here's one fact you may be missing: Dams are one of the greatest environmental and ecologically devastating constructs our world has ever known. A single dam can permanently alter the natural ecology of an area forever.
@@Dog.soldier1950 there are almost 8 BILLION people on this planet. The greater good has come and gone and we don’t have time for that kind of nonsense anymore.
It is impossible to provide all the water and electricity needed for the state with all the people moving here and climate changing changing rain patterns. Tearing the damns down would be foolhardy, and short sighted
The pondage behind the dams is typically on the order of 1 day of river flow. Compare that to the dams on the Colorado, whose reservoirs even out flows on decade time scales. The Snake and Columbia are beastly; our situation is not like the Southwest at all. Our minimum flows still represent more water than we have arable land to use it on. Without the dams, all our irrigation could and would still take place, just with a bit of extra pumping height. As for power, we have the cheapest and most abundant power in the nation, and a big part of our generation gets shipped straight out to California. IMO we should be leading the switch to new, low-cost high-safety forms of nuclear. That would allow us to remove some of the more troublesome dams, while having ultra-reliable clean energy for ourselves and to continue selling to the helpless Californians. But for sure we can't just tear dams out with no replacement plan; even the nimrod governors of OR and WA recognize that. And, the whole salmon question isn't just about cute fishies. Salmon runs are historically one of the greatest forces carrying nutrients inland to our forests. Millions of tons of material coming in from the oceans and spread by bears and other animals to fertilize and replenish our soils. Also, the oldest continuously-inhabited human settlement in all of the Americas, Celilo Falls just outside of The Dalles, is currently underwater due to a dam. That place was already old when the Egyptians were drawing up plans for the Sphinx - 15,000 years of history.
@@jessieanderson3931 So you're cool with destroying the local ecology and erasing our most historic landmarks, in order to save like $10 a month? If that? Taking capacity factor into account, it only takes 1 good size reactor to replace the average output of all four Lower Snake dams. Alternatively, we could start charging California their price instead of our price for all the power we're sending to L.A.
Perhaps they just need more or better designed fish ladders. Hydroelectric power production is one of the most efficient ways to produce electricity with much less environmental harm than Coal or Nuclear energy.
That's the thing, the 4 dams on the Lower Snake have ZERO provision for fish passage, and I don't think I've heard anyone say it's even possible to add. Fish can get past Bonneville and those, up to Tri-Cities, but they're not getting up the Snake. Also, nuclear is absolutely far less environmentally damaging than hydro. Dam reservoirs represent far more destroyed habitat than the 2 nuclear exclusion zones in the world. I'd much rather have been living downwind of 3-Mile Island than downstream of Oroville dam. We can agree on coal though, that stuff is nasty. Coal is the reason we have to worry about mercury in fish.
We have spent over 17 billions dollars on salmon restoration in the Columbia Basin, 20 years of litigation, massive lawsuits from both sides and you think salmon ladders haven't been discussed?... huh
🙁 not too happy about this. Solar, and wind need to be able to give us more than half our electricity on grid currently being provided by dams. Edit: I talked to a neighbor about this and he said there were a few earthen dams on those rivers left. So I wonder about that also.
@@catherinewilliams9680 We have spent 17 billions dollars on salmon and steelhead restoration in the Columbia River Basin. After 20-30 years of litigation and eco management, salmon population are still declining at a rate in which they will go extinct in the basin by 2035. Do you think the ladders are working?
Washington has cheap rlectricity because of hydroelectric dams. If we burst these dams, we will see electricity bills skyrocket like California is right now. We will have rolling blackouts every day like California is having right now. You will be told that you cannot turn on your air conditioning. You will also be told that your gasoline powered car will be illegal and that you should buy a $50,000 electric car. Californians have recently been told that they cannot charge their electric cars batteries on some days. Can you get loan approval in $50,000??? Interest rates have doubled because of the fed interest rate. This rate has been increased because inflation is out of control. Now we're in a recession. But NOAA wants to raise your electricity prices because they claim that there is to much carbon dioxide. You will not be able to live in the city anymore. You won't be able to afford anything anymore. Stop voting democrat. NOVEMBER 8TH. Vote them out.
The vast and harsh Economic repercussions are ignored in the chance of some fish issues. The flooding, transportation, power and other issues are ignored
They won't be when there's no wheat etc. coming down the river. It's not just farm goods going up and down the Columbia. It will take many hundreds of 18 wheelers to get all that stuff to market, and only one freeway along the river on south bank. I-84 clogged with trucks 400 miles.
“some fish issues” * the extension of Columbia Chinook and the all together extirpation salmon in Idaho This is why you guys are losing this fight 🙄 and here I thought republicans were supposed to be stewards of land and country
@@Reed411 the economic costs of any dam removal aren’t going away. Furthermore we have no proof whatsoever that removal will solve the fish issue, its just against feel good for the urban elite and a disaster for everyone else
If they were worried about the salmon they would try to restore the upper Columbia River run. The dams on the upper Columbia don't even have fish ladders but they don't talk about removing them!
All this for a smelly fish that I can't stand eating? What about the benefits of hydropower? How are barges going to move upriver without the locks at the dams? I don't think people fully understand how bad this will be economically.
Most dams are equipped with what is called a "salmon ladder". The Hiram Chittenden locks in Seattle is the best example of a working salmon ladder. The website has a link to a live cam. Salmon are spawning right now. You can go to the locks and see the fish swimming up the ladder right now.
@@EarthBeing3 🤦 if there were enough salmon, not being killed in the dams turbines coming down river, dying off bc the blocks make their commute longer going up river) then the seals would be a drop in the bucket. Research proves the impact of the dams on the salmon. Please go read the multiple research papers and watch the multiple documentary's on the issue. The gov is spewing propaganda.
@@m9078jk3 the state has already legalized shooting seals on sight. Their answer, your suggestion, is to kill a species that has existed long before the dams. Kill an animal that has just as much right to eat as any other. This is a man made issue. It wasn't an issue until the dams we're built. Do some research.
There is as much chance of these dams being removed as there is in removing the federal income tax. So goodbye to Salmon and Steelhead fish on the Snake river watershed. The first Nation people and the treaties they signed have been disrespected.
dams are some of the most important infrastructure, HOW are we having this dispute about dams??? they save countless lives!
Human lives aren’t important to the environmental cause
maybe you should research the "why and hows", you may find your answers. But here's one fact you may be missing: Dams are one of the greatest environmental and ecologically devastating constructs our world has ever known. A single dam can permanently alter the natural ecology of an area forever.
@@Reed411 yes your right but altered for the greater good: water, power, flood control, transportation and even recreation
@@Dog.soldier1950 there are almost 8 BILLION people on this planet. The greater good has come and gone and we don’t have time for that kind of nonsense anymore.
@@Reed411 your willingness to sacrifice others lives for your concepts is touching
This has been debated for so many years. We're lucky to have access to hydropower here.
Lucky yes, but it’s time to lay it to rest. This “good thing” has soured and become a curse. Nothing lasts forever.
northwest power coalition research SHOWS THE REGION CURRENTLY HAS ENOUGH POWER NOW IF THE DAMS WERE REMOVED
It is impossible to provide all the water and electricity needed for the state with all the people moving here and climate changing changing rain patterns. Tearing the damns down would be foolhardy, and short sighted
The pondage behind the dams is typically on the order of 1 day of river flow. Compare that to the dams on the Colorado, whose reservoirs even out flows on decade time scales. The Snake and Columbia are beastly; our situation is not like the Southwest at all. Our minimum flows still represent more water than we have arable land to use it on. Without the dams, all our irrigation could and would still take place, just with a bit of extra pumping height.
As for power, we have the cheapest and most abundant power in the nation, and a big part of our generation gets shipped straight out to California. IMO we should be leading the switch to new, low-cost high-safety forms of nuclear. That would allow us to remove some of the more troublesome dams, while having ultra-reliable clean energy for ourselves and to continue selling to the helpless Californians. But for sure we can't just tear dams out with no replacement plan; even the nimrod governors of OR and WA recognize that.
And, the whole salmon question isn't just about cute fishies. Salmon runs are historically one of the greatest forces carrying nutrients inland to our forests. Millions of tons of material coming in from the oceans and spread by bears and other animals to fertilize and replenish our soils. Also, the oldest continuously-inhabited human settlement in all of the Americas, Celilo Falls just outside of The Dalles, is currently underwater due to a dam. That place was already old when the Egyptians were drawing up plans for the Sphinx - 15,000 years of history.
@@JETZcorp no. I want to keep my lower electricity costs.
@@jessieanderson3931 So you're cool with destroying the local ecology and erasing our most historic landmarks, in order to save like $10 a month? If that? Taking capacity factor into account, it only takes 1 good size reactor to replace the average output of all four Lower Snake dams. Alternatively, we could start charging California their price instead of our price for all the power we're sending to L.A.
@@jessieanderson3931 at the cost of the extension of salmon in the Columbia Basin? that's some ego
Perhaps they just need more or better designed fish ladders. Hydroelectric power production is one of the most efficient ways to produce electricity with much less environmental harm than Coal or Nuclear energy.
That's the thing, the 4 dams on the Lower Snake have ZERO provision for fish passage, and I don't think I've heard anyone say it's even possible to add. Fish can get past Bonneville and those, up to Tri-Cities, but they're not getting up the Snake.
Also, nuclear is absolutely far less environmentally damaging than hydro. Dam reservoirs represent far more destroyed habitat than the 2 nuclear exclusion zones in the world. I'd much rather have been living downwind of 3-Mile Island than downstream of Oroville dam. We can agree on coal though, that stuff is nasty. Coal is the reason we have to worry about mercury in fish.
We have spent over 17 billions dollars on salmon restoration in the Columbia Basin, 20 years of litigation, massive lawsuits from both sides and you think salmon ladders haven't been discussed?... huh
🙁 not too happy about this. Solar, and wind need to be able to give us more than half our electricity on grid currently being provided by dams.
Edit: I talked to a neighbor about this and he said there were a few earthen dams on those rivers left. So I wonder about that also.
Windmills parts cost more to make than than they return in elec.
@@olddog6658 this is not true
Why can't they modify the dams to assist the trout and salmon in crossing over the dams?
They all have "Fish Ladders" a series of small pools like stair steps. This will murder the local economy.
@@olddog6658 Are they working?
@@catherinewilliams9680 We have spent 17 billions dollars on salmon and steelhead restoration in the Columbia River Basin. After 20-30 years of litigation and eco management, salmon population are still declining at a rate in which they will go extinct in the basin by 2035. Do you think the ladders are working?
@@Reed411 Maybe one thing has nothing to do with the other?
not that simple dams create reservoirs that are to hot for salmon to live
Washington has cheap rlectricity because of hydroelectric dams.
If we burst these dams, we will see electricity bills skyrocket like California is right now.
We will have rolling blackouts every day like California is having right now.
You will be told that you cannot turn on your air conditioning.
You will also be told that your gasoline powered car will be illegal and that you should buy a $50,000 electric car.
Californians have recently been told that they cannot charge their electric cars batteries on some days.
Can you get loan approval in $50,000???
Interest rates have doubled because of the fed interest rate. This rate has been increased because inflation is out of control.
Now we're in a recession.
But NOAA wants to raise your electricity prices because they claim that there is to much carbon dioxide.
You will not be able to live in the city anymore.
You won't be able to afford anything anymore.
Stop voting democrat.
NOVEMBER 8TH.
Vote them out.
I need to plug in my Tesla.
NOAA is a bipartisan institution
The vast and harsh Economic repercussions are ignored in the chance of some fish issues. The flooding, transportation, power and other issues are ignored
Would rather you live in the dark dogsoldier than never eat salmon again
They won't be when there's no wheat etc. coming down the river.
It's not just farm goods going up and down the Columbia.
It will take many hundreds of 18 wheelers to get all that stuff to market, and only one freeway along the river on south bank.
I-84 clogged with trucks 400 miles.
@@olddog6658 it's called rail
“some fish issues”
* the extension of Columbia Chinook and the all together extirpation salmon in Idaho
This is why you guys are losing this fight 🙄 and here I thought republicans were supposed to be stewards of land and country
@@Reed411 the economic costs of any dam removal aren’t going away. Furthermore we have no proof whatsoever that removal will solve the fish issue, its just against feel good for the urban elite and a disaster for everyone else
If they were worried about the salmon they would try to restore the upper Columbia River run. The dams on the upper Columbia don't even have fish ladders but they don't talk about removing them!
why do you think that is?
@@Reed411 money!
lets start with removing the lower snake river dams, this would go along way for saving the Columbia basin salmonfrom extinction
I no longer "trust the science"
the region should get onboard and accept the revenue coming in to build a better community and move smartly into the future
keep se washington city's whole and build the infrastructure now and start removing the dams
All this for a smelly fish that I can't stand eating?
What about the benefits of hydropower? How are barges going to move upriver without the locks at the dams?
I don't think people fully understand how bad this will be economically.
I don't think you fully understand how short sighted you sound
Is it really a charity donation if the food your giving away is poison?
Washington Follow Floridas lead?
Keep the dams
How about No.
Why not just dig a salmon bypass?
Most dams are equipped with what is called a "salmon ladder".
The Hiram Chittenden locks in Seattle is the best example of a working salmon ladder.
The website has a link to a live cam.
Salmon are spawning right now.
You can go to the locks and see the fish swimming up the ladder right now.
Can't build a damn dam without fish passage . Been that way for decades.
Use less
Buy less
Walk more
If those dams don't come down then the southern resident orca will starve to death.
Wrong. The seals are devouring the salmon.
@@EarthBeing3 🤦 if there were enough salmon, not being killed in the dams turbines coming down river, dying off bc the blocks make their commute longer going up river) then the seals would be a drop in the bucket. Research proves the impact of the dams on the salmon. Please go read the multiple research papers and watch the multiple documentary's on the issue. The gov is spewing propaganda.
@@EarthBeing3 Club the seals
@@m9078jk3 the state has already legalized shooting seals on sight. Their answer, your suggestion, is to kill a species that has existed long before the dams. Kill an animal that has just as much right to eat as any other. This is a man made issue. It wasn't an issue until the dams we're built. Do some research.
The USFW notes only 4% of the orca diet comes from the snake/Columbia system
There is as much chance of these dams being removed as there is in removing the federal income tax. So goodbye to Salmon and Steelhead fish on the Snake river watershed. The first Nation people and the treaties they signed have been disrespected.
Time for all the tribes to join the country.
wow
@@Reed411 scream equality one more time.
@@shanetaylor7581 I never did
to HELL with salmon
someone really hates salmon
@@Reed411 ya somethin like that