Why isn't Tim Duncan in the Mount Rushmore convo? | Swagu & Perk
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- Опубликовано: 7 мар 2022
- Swagu & Perk discuss why Tim Duncan isn't talked about in the Mount Rushmore conversation.
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This conversation is really telling about our society in general. Sometimes the quiet ones get less respect in a lot of ways.
Or the humble ones and where you play. Case in point Giannis. NBA media would be all over this man's coattails if he ditched Milwaukee and went to either LA or NY and won a title there
@@JayJ95X Kawhi… that’s it. Kawhi proves the point. He was talked about but not the same after Toronto and LA. But god forbid everyone who realizes his Spurs days and how he played exactly the same. Got an MVP… it says a lot. Spurs aren’t loud and angry. They ran the league for like 20 years. Yet nothing. Lebron being on a superteam (lakers) not reaching their full potential will be talked about more than the fact a team ran a league every year. And got 5 chips… oh and swept Lebron and etc.
Less respect from the people that don’t matter. Real ones know about Tim Duncan
not less respect, but less recognition
Duncan doesn’t care about none of that and he didn’t play “flashy” and wasn’t arrogant and loud so people don’t give him his dues at times, But everyone knows he’s Top 10
If everyone knew it wouldn’t be a question. They never mention Duncan. But they should
Top 5
He is better than top 10
@@billblaski9523yeah
He's easily the greatest PF of all-time. 2 MVPs, most All-Defensive team selections of all-time, 5 rings, 3 Finals MVPs, made the playoffs every year. His game was textbook basic and he doesn't talk much so people don't gravitate to him. He's 6th or 7th on my top 10 list
6th or 7th?
@Jeremiah Smith💯💪🏾🏀! Have a Blessed Day!
But at the end of the day the goal is winning games, and Tim did that as a big big cog better than just about anyone with a near 72% win rate. The only top tier talent to have better who'd be in mount rushmore conversation are Magic, Bird, Bill Russell, Kareem, Shaq. You see the trend other guys with Team dynasties. Jordan and Lebron are around 66% so basically you'd need to Justify Tim Duncan over those mentioned above plus guys like Wilt, Kobe etc. You just can't make him a top 4 consideration with those other guys.
@@DetroitTyler It's because he abused that boring bank shot.
Top 3
Duncan won FOUR titles without a current teammate making an All-NBA team.
No other player has ever won more than ONE title without a current All-NBA teammate, and that includes MJ/LBJ/
/Magic/Bird/Hakeem/Kareem
Top 3 all time longevity, top 3 defensive player, top 5 peak (03), top 3 intangibles/leadership, top 5 in winning (as teams best player only MJ and LBJ have clearly won more)
He is top 4 (at 4) for me
Great points!
That was very objective and I agree with you
I wanted that to be true but it's not. I checked Hakeem's championship years and there's nobody both years on first, second, or third all nba.
@@aaron5049 Yes there is, Drexler in 95 was All-NBA 3rd team, please check again
He didn’t make All-Star, that may be the confusion
@Green Lion …
Duncan is a safe top 3 pick if you start a franchise and draft all time players. Only Jordan and Magic had a similar effect on a team.. but Duncan did it for much longer.
He has 3 finals mvps. More than Kareem, Bird, Kobe, KD, Kawhi and more….
Tim Duncan had a winning record against every team in the NBA . The team he had the lowest win% against was the Lakers and that was 58%.
People forget Duncan beat Kobe and Shaq Lakers in 2003. We just forgot that and skipped to the Lakers losing in 04'.
2003 team was stacked and ready to destroy the Lakers
Maybe it has to do with being more quiet,reserved. Even his game was quietly dominant...maybe people try to give Popovich some of the credit for that success too?
People underestimate how great of an offensive player he was. Who could stop TD? Don’t let his 20pt per game fool you. He was always gonna get 20 and in big games he was getting you 27-30. That’s enough to win any game. If your top player is getting more than that, you can argue it’s easier to beat that team because all you have to do is stop everyone else.
Why? because they know he won't cry about it and make it a big deal. Tim should easily be on there. Did that mans team ever have a losing season? (maybe 2 right?).
This. Very few people have multiple mvps, championships, and finals mvps. Mj, LeBron, Kareem. After that top 3, the 4th spot really can be debated and Tim should be in that conversation.
Never had a losing season.
Made playoffs every year of his career. 0.700 win pct.
Duncan is always mentioned as the greatest PF ever. Even by Karl Malone, Barkley, Shaq, etc. These lists always tend to lean towards ball handlers for some reason.
Agreed. Perimeter players tend to get more love on these lists.
I have always thought Tim Duncan put his psychology degree to play on the court to his advantage by frustrating his oponents and keeping his cool on tense times.
The most underrated all time great player of all time. I really don't understand why people talk so much about Magic Johnson, Larry Bird and all these great players and they don't talk about Tim Duncan... Do you all really understand that Tim Duncan in 2003 had one of the greatest play off runs of all time??? He beat Kobe and Shaq who were back-to back-to back champions and in finals he had arguably top 5 greatest performance of all time, right there with Shaq from 2000 to 2002, Lebron in 2016 and Jordan in 1993, that's how great finals run he had. In 2003 he averaged 24,6 points, 17 rebounds, 5,3 assists and 5,3 blocks on 49,4% from the field. He is the only guy who could have quatriple-double and he would do that IN NBA FINALS if refa didn't stole two blocks that should've gone to him. In game 1 he had 31 points, I think 16 rebounds and 7 blocks, but in game 6 he had 21 points, 20 rebounds, 10 assists and 8 blocks my God... Honestly, when I see that someone averaged that statline in the finals, I would thought he is the greatest player of all time...
Tim Duncan NBA Great.
Perfect Example Of Being A Winner and Champion! Thank You ♥️🙏🏾💪🏾🏀! Virgin Islands APPRECIATE!
I would say
- He never led the league in any of the 5 major stats at any point of his career.
- He’s kind of the opposite of his rival Kobe. He was quiet, played for a small market and didn’t have a lot of pizzazz in his game. Although career wise you could argue he was better than Kobe.
I do think Duncan should be more respected in all time great convos.
Stats are like Bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.
This quote sums up the stat-argument against Duncan. Yes, he never led the league.. but not one person on this planet would argue that Duncan wasnt among the greatest scorers, shotblockers or rebounders this league has ever seen.
Popovich cost him like 20% of these stats.
If you want to talk about Stats.. show me the season where Duncan didnt win 50 games during his insanely long career. Thats a stat more people should look at. This game is about winning and Duncan represents everything good about basketball.
@@spurs_7798 agreed. People don't' realize how balance Duncan was. He was the type of guy who only cared about wining. For example if he could win a game just scoring 2 points he would and if he had to score 40 to win a game he would. This mentality combined with Pop's slow grind out style of play is why Duncan didn't put up gaudy scoring numbers in his career. He was more than capable of putting up great numbers when it came to scoring. I still remember playoff series where he averaged 30 a game against the Lakers, Mavs, etc.
It’s about Hype vs Real. Hype is just a candy… it looks sweet but you realize somehow it’s not that good. Duncan doesn’t care about the media.. He cares about what really matters. The good values.
Tim Duncan does not care at all about some made up lists or rankings. He is a winner and he knows that.
Mahn this conversation is exactly the mirror that should show the world who a casual fan is because 99% of sports analysts are ready to talk about lechina James, kobe and tasteless curry as the goat but this guy never gets any love, respect or adoration from the media and I love that.. They never appreciated the spurs when he was there and they never will.
Only 3 positions are definitively occupied by the best ever: Jordan at SG, LeBron at SF, and Duncan at PF. Whoever you want to put at PG and C will round out the top 5 players of all time.
Hold up Magic is without a doubt greatest PG and no one comes close like there is no debate
@@LoganNagol not very good at defense, played on stacked teams, cut his career short by catching the bug. Debatable.
@@NoName-cn3cp with who tho? I love Steph and he is 2nd, but all time rankings he is still like 6-9 spots behind Magic
@@hardwoodthought1213 I personally would take Kidd because his size, pass first mentality, and all time defense. Also, he became a knockdown shooter to end his career. I've heard others say Zeke, CP3, Nash, Stockton, and Steph.
@@LoganNagol The fact that Steph is in the conversation kinda solidifies TD. Nobody else in the convo for PF.
Nice New Show
Hes in my convo. Top 10 alltime for sure
tell em Perk!
That was me who asked the question regarding Tim Duncan not being on the Mt. Rushmore
Tim Duncan and Hakeen Olajuwon are not talk about that much for the sane reason. They're both very quiet.
Timmy isn't on Mt. Rushmore for the same reason he didn't have a farewell tour. He didn't care about it. He wanted to win and did. Then he retired. He never padded his stats, he never talked trash, he never put himself in the spotlight.
I wish he would a little bit though. Dude is hella entertaining when he wants to be.
Mount Rushmore should be 10 players, would make this list so much easier¡🏀
MJ, Kareem, Russell, Duncan, Kobe, Wilt, Lebron, Bird, Shaq, Magic
Tim Duncan knows Tim Duncan is the goat I think when it comes to wins period I think he is up against everyone superstar u can name ima spurs fan and would've loved to see Tim Duncan and Michael Jordan go at it in a finals and MJ is my goat but Timmy D is number 2 right behind him on my list but both of them 6 times finals same team is what makes them the best and then kobe
MJ and Lebron hold 2 undisputed spots on the Mt. Rushmore. So that only leaves 2 other spots which are always subject to debate. Who would you put Timmy over?
Tim Duncan ran over the Pistons. The Same Pistons that upset the 3x NBA Champ Lakers. Tim Duncan reminded the lakers that they are not the alone on the top of the NBA. Duncan got his 4th before the Lakers.
Funny how the narrative turns. Everybody had TD as best PF but up until recently people never argued if he was a Rushmore candidate. I'm not sure he was better than Robinson, but I got TD on my rushmore.
I respect Tim Duncan, I live in Jersey, I was a Nets fan back in '03 when he destroyed us (in the most boring manner imaginable) and that's one of my earliest memories watching the NBA. But he's only even called "the greatest power forward of all time" because people remember Larry Bird as a small forward, he played the 4 a lot of his career. He's not on the Mount Rushmore of the NBA because Michael Jordan, Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russel, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, LeBron James, Magic Johnson and Larry Bird are all generally considered better than he was. He's great just...not top 4.
you could argue Bill Russel and Kareem Abdul-Jabba were boring as well. It's not whos best but rather whos the greatest. Bird had ALOT of help and a short peak. Magic's legacy is challenged by Bird, steph and his crazy good teammates, which included Kareem. Wilt was dominate but got beat by Russell ALOT... Meanwhile TD just won..ALOT!
@@Whos-That-Guy For sure those are cases why I don't have any of those guys but Wilt on my top 4, but I do have them over Tim Duncan personally. I get greatness isn't always measured by whose the best but like, Tim Duncan only averaged 19 and 10 for his career. Bird did have some star power on his team, but that's kind of offset by the help his competition had. His absolute peak was kinda short but Tim Duncan's peak was really his first 7 years so they're about the same there, Duncan just played longer. He also only had one season where he averaged at least Bird's career average scoring wise. For Magic, he did have a crazy good team around him but he also had decent competition he was going up against and when he won his last two Kareem was pretty old, I'd compare that Lakers big 3 more to the Celtics big 3 in the late 00s than what they were prior and closed one of those first championships out without Kareem. Plus he's the league's all time leader in assists per game, gotta respect records like that. Wilt didn't beat the Celtics more than once, but he's the only one to ever beat that loaded team with 6 hall of famers healthy and basically owns the record book.
@@jamespuso1627 Pop's system limited scoring opportunities for Duncan, Manu, Parker. It was a slow grind out system where the offensive pace was slowed down. Duncan had playoff series where he averaged 30 a game. He could easily score 27-30 a game but was focused more so on winning. For example, if all he needed to do to win a game was to get 10 points then he would and if he had to get 40 to win a game then he would.
I would also take Duncan over Magic and Bird. He was much better than them on the defensive end which doesn't get talked about since the NBA and fans have always been obsessed with offense. He has the record for most all-NBA defensive appearances.
@@doctorx1924 That style of offense is the kind Duncan would have and did thrive in. Toward the end when Popovich moved to a flow offense is when he looked like he wasn't much a part of the offense. During the stretch where David Robinson was old and Parker and Ginobili hadn't broken out yet he was the offense. Just kinda hard to imagine that he could have consistently scored THAT much with the pace he played at.
That said, he was a great defensive player, some call him the greatest defensive player of all time. To me I'd look at guys like Bill Russell, Dennis Rodman and Ben Wallace who were hall of famers and champions making almost their whole contribution on that end but he was on that level. But, people don't realize just how good Larry Bird was on defense. He was a career double digit rebounder and could guard multiple positions back when that was a pretty rare thing for someone to be able to do since positions meant something back then. Not as good as Duncan of course but the difference on offense it so great I can't really put him over Bird. As for Magic, he was only an okay defender admittedly but the offensive package was so great it's just hard not to put him ahead.
There are only two non-debatable players in the GOAT conversation for their positions: nobody will debate against Michael Jordan being the greatest SG ever, and no one will ever debate that Tim Duncan is the greatest PF ever. Magic, Stockton, and Steph are fighting in the PG position, LeBron and Larry for the SF, and Kareem, Bill, Wilt, and Shaq for the C position. Not so with the SG and PF positions--that alone should tell you that TD is and should be part of the basketball Rushmore. It's MJ, Kareem, Bill, and Timmy, in no particular order.
Because f**k Mount Rushmore. Tim Duncan is still a top 5 player of all time. Greatest PF, most under appreciated legend of all time.
MJ, LeBron, Magic & Duncan
These conversations always get all muddied up when talking about the greatest players of all time. He’s always on every single top 10 all-time list and rightfully so. He’s one of the greatest players I ever saw played personally. That’s good enough.
Tim Duncan played the center position for at least 10 years of his career. Not sure why he is always solely put in the PF box.
Because had he retired by 05 he’d still be the best PF ever, so his last 7 years (not 10) being at C have no impact on his PF legacy.
@@hardwoodthought1213 I love these great points that rebuff great points.
He’s not there because the media cares more about hype than basketball
been saying exactly this for YEAARRRRRRSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!! I got him above LeBron on my list and, for me, it's not even a conversation
He's not mentioned on the mount Rushmore because he never won back to back. To win, have all the attention on you the next year and everyone gunning for you, then winning again is the ultimate exclamation mark. But he's right on that next level under players with consecutive final MVPs (KD doesn't count).
I don’t think that a relevant point. I don’t think any player would say those championship are some how less. At one point the Spurs were winning championships every other year which shows a sustained excellence. Once Shaq left LA they weren’t close to a title for 5 years
@@smtbg Yet Duncan from 04 on made All-NBA 9 times and All-Defence 9 times
Manu made what, 2 All-NBA third teams and 0 defensive teams from 04 on.
You’re smoking son
@@BearlyBroken they literally went back 05 n won 07
Because Spurs is about basketball not individual. Drama sells.. but moral values don’t. We can argue that TD is the greatest example of what should be a superstar humble and strong, but we know in America drama and emotion will capture attention.
@@JayK07 the Spurs won the championship those years not the lakers
Timmy is the GOAT
Offensively, he didn't have quite enough juice to catch Bird.
TD has more career points than Bird.
Bird was more efficient than Duncan. His career was just a bit short.
@@michaeln.2383 If you adjust for pace Duncan actually is pretty equal to Bird in scoring…
Bird was a bit better in scoring, but Duncan was a bit better in rebounding. Bird gets the nod because he was a better passer and could shoot from the outside.
As a Mavs fan I hate that guy he was great
As a spurs fan we love dirk… now that they are retired there is no animosity there dirk and Timmy are literally friends.
👨🏿🔧👨🏿🔧👨🏿🔧 Greatest of all time 🤌🏿🤌🏿🤌🏿
TD IS TOP 3
Cuz of media hype
There is no way that Tim Duncan inst top 5 all time
In fact based on what are Magic,Kareem and LeBron better than him?
Because no one ever saw him make a move then hit the court to try it for themselves…
I don't know about you, but those post moves are a thing of beauty. They need to bring back the post moves for these young kiddos.
best championship line up is steph, mj, lebron, duncan, bill russell.
Lmao bill Russell
He doesn’t get the respect because he wasn’t a ‘highlights’ player and his personality wasn’t loud.
Tim Duncan does not have a defensive player of the year - stop the cap Perkins
Coz the concept itself, of a Mt. Rushmore is too flawed. Knowing that there are 10-20 greats of any generation, with close career accomplishments, & only picking 4.
At the end of the day, you'll just swap & swap. Coz it shouldn't be just 4 careers, it should be atleast 10.
People think basketball history begins and ends with the last 20 years.
Bird beat Magic, Kareem, Michael, Hakeem, Isiah, Dr. J, and Moses.
Who will he replace? Nba Mount Rushmore is MJ, Kareem, Lebron and Magic. I will even consider Wilt, Bird, Russell and even Kobe before Duncan.
Easy, because he had a Top tier coach a great supporting cast. 19 PPG 10 Rebounds 2.2 blocks career average, I think it's just his numbers he played in an unselfish system and winning basketball and never had a flashy or unique playstyle. When you talk mount Rushmore you are talking about the special among the elite. Duncan was elite but were any aspects of his game overshadowed by anyone else you could point to better scorers, better passers, better rebounders, better shot blockers during his era, he did a lot at a very high and efficient level but you can't be mount rushmore if you can count out many other better more dominant big men before him.
How is magic better???
He can't defend
Cause he ain’t that good
I think because he wasn’t superhumanly athletic.
Because he was boring and nobody was entertained by his play after all it’s just entertainment
duncan was never been the face of NBA. That is why.
He is not on Mt. Rushmore because he had a hall fame coach and 3-4 hall of fame players on his team. He didn’t even win Finals MVP every year the Spurs won the chip. He is a 🐐 just not Rushmore.
lol it could be argued that TD made Pop. He won 3 out of 5 FMVP only Jordan and LBJ probably won FMVP every Finals
@@MrMathsimon Definitely don’t want to knock Timmy and say he isn’t the best 4 of all time. It’s true Pop had no rings till Tim showed up, but I can’t look past the team, coach and organization that Duncan had around him his whole career.
He made tp and manu hall famers
Hakeem Olujawon is better than Tim Duncan
nope
@@WhoIsRah yep just very underrated
@@WhoIsRah Hakeem more skilled offensively and way better defensively. He's just not as accomplished as Duncan and a lot of that had to do with coaching and front office.
@@ocampbell1954 yes sir but as a basketball player Hakeem is better, career wise it has to be Timmy
Hakeem has 23 career playoff games with 35+ points
Duncan has 11 career playoff games with 35+ points
Tim never won DPOY. Just two MVPs. And a decade worth of All defense and nba teams. He’s a bust. Lol
All that is blah blah. Tim Duncan didn’t win back to back. The years where 1999, 2003, 2005, 2007, 2014. He was coached by the best coach in the league. Had the 2 most dynamic Overseas players in the league in Manu & Tony Parker. So to be fair Parker’s & Manu won 2 chips for Tim.
Larry Bird did not win back to back either. The reason why TD did not win back to back especially his first four chips because he never had a All-NBA teammate around that time.
@@smtbg 03 in which as Hakeem did in 94 he won without an All-Star on his team.
Hakeem bar the years he won did nothing. Man in the late 80s West which sucked was losing in round 1 or missing the playoffs for HALF A DECADE. straight 😂 dude was losing to Sonics teams led by Dale Ellis and Mavs teams led by Rolando Blackman but Hakeem can carry scrubs I thought 😂 yeah when MJ isn’t playing and the 3 point line is shortened
This is maybe the stupidest point ever.... hahaha.... So his not the greatest cos he didn't win back to back?.... Don't worry about the fact that he won chips in 3 different decades..... I should introduce you to the pop haters who say TD carried him, which to pops credit he actually has said multiple times.
@@Whos-That-Guy I never said he is not great I saw him beat the Knicks for his first chip. I watched his career some the beginning. He is an all time great. Don’t get me wrong. But call a spade a spade. He got beat a ton of times in the playoffs. He didn’t have sustained dominance. Who is going to argue this????? Is he great yes. But not in the top 5 of all time.
The only reason the Spurs were ever able to compete in the finals is because of Tim Duncan and I’m the biggest Tim Duncan fan ever. Bro he won a chip without Tony Parker and Ginobili and on top of that he was the MVP of the finals 3 out of the 5 chips he won. So don’t discredit TD like that .
During his era, Tim Duncan bests ALL except Kobe, but is easily seen as lesser than those he exceeded. Don't make no dang sense! Write a letter!!
He aint better than Kobe. And to me he was a Center.
TD better than Kobe.
Tim was far more consistent than Kobe. Kobe was just flashier.