It looks awesome. I'd like to see you go back in 5, 10 15, and 20 years to see how it holds up. The true test of any product is how it holds up and preforms over time.
***** I did have to go back and re-roof a metal roof several years ago, but not this one. The issue was a scupper leak on a flat roof (the metal roof hadn't leaked but I pulled it to be certain), but while I was there I pulled the metal roof and found the WIP underlayment fried to a crisp under the metal. That was my first house with PolyIso on the roof and I used on layer of WIP on the roof deck then 2" of polyiso then another WIP then the metal roof directly on top. Lesson learned is that even High Temp rated WIP can get super hot under a non-vented metal roof. This video shows my current method and is working perfectly. I've been doing this method for several years and this is really best practice. Matt
Matt Risinger Hello Matt, I am from Jamaica where it's always summer;this roof looks GREAT. However since air is allowed to flow under the metal sheeting wouldn't it be susceptible to high winds? Would this roof survive a Category 4 hurricane?
I see you created room for air flow under the metal but what about venting it? At minute 4:40 of the video I see the peak but it appears to have no venting.
Thanks for commenting! In general the cost of a metal roof is about 1.5-2x compared to a shingle roof. This system is more than that, but I'm doing a Best Practice system. Bugs are kept out of the 3/4" lath air gap with a Cor-A-Vent at the eave. It would have to be a very small bug to get into that space. Matt Risinger
Thanks for the complements, the video's are fun to make and the information dissemination only helps us all get better. On your questions, no the Grace WIP HT isn't a radiant barrier but the metal roof is. The air gap is two fold, one to create a space for the radiant barrier on the back of the roof panel to work, next to allow drainage of any water that gets past the metal, and lastly to lower the temp of the WIP by not touching the metal to it.
@nadroj540 I see what you're saying but I don't see why it would condense on the backside. We've got 2" of foam on the roof top then 5.5" inside so there is little chance the house will be cooling the metal from leaked AC. That metal roof should be the same temp on the top and bottom sides. If condensation does occur there is a 3/4" air space vented top & bottom to bring that moisture out. This is really best practice method for doing a metal roof in our climate zone. -Matt Risinger
@boardman4ever101 True we do have more penetrations, but that's the reason for the Water & Ice protection membrane. It's a self sealing product that should last the length of the metal roofs life. The 3/4" air space gives any water that gets into that space the ability to dry or drain. This really is a best practice method for roofing in this climate zone. Matt Risinger
Thanks for your kind comments! Good point on the condensation. Yes that's my cheap Flip video camera work on this video. Just upgraded to the HD version a few months ago. Got a HD Flip on sale for $70. Tough to beat. I keep meaning to upgrade to a good camera with a wireless mic but don't want to spend the $money$. Someday... Matt Risinger
On the shingle roof check out Hunter Panels made in Houston. They sandwich Plywood with a radiant barrier, then an air gap, then 1-5" or rigid foam. You could apply that over your decking to create a sealed attic. Best, Matt
@Rockytxv The support under the ISO is full 1/2" roof plywood. I would think you could use Extruded Polystyrene as well, that would be less expensive. It will get hot under that roof even with the 3/4" lath, I would expect the top of the foam to be upwards of 120 degrees on a hot July day. -Matt
Good Question. With this 24ga metal it's really rigid and won't dent if you walk in the middle by accident. It's pretty easy to tell where the slats are when you are walking the roof. I totally agree on the metal comments. Excellent roofing choice. It's more costly in the short term, but the beauty of putting it down when building/remodeling is the bank will finance it for you. If you shingle your roof in Texas it's a near guarantee you'll get hail damage in 1-10 years. Matt Risinger
I wonder what the before and after energy savings were on this house. My new build will use this roof system with an unvented attic. Excellent video, thank you!
@boardman4ever101 That's partially true. The home you are talking about had 2" of rigid foam, then WIP HT, then a dark metal roof with no air gap. We had a wall flashing issue where the valley dumped onto a flat roof and when we investigated we found the WIP HT was badly degraded after only 1 year. We made the decision to pull the dark metal roof, rip off the WIP HT and go back with double 30lb felt but we added lath to create a 3/4" air space like what you see in this video. Matt
Yes it does. See my other videos on conditioned attics. If you are in the hot/humid Southern US then bringing your ducts inside the AC space of your house is a HUGE upgrade in efficiency for your house. This rigid foam on the roof deck is one of several ways to create a conditioned attic. This particular house has both rigid from on top and spray foam inside so there are two types of insulation at the roof line. Hope this helps! Best, Matt
I wish there was more of the roof being shown as opposed to telling us what you did looks good at the end I think what people want to see is the process of the installation
Good Question. How old is your house? I assume your metal roof is screwed to 1x4 Lath directly on the roof rafters? I wouldn't recommend laying foam over the metal roof. Pull the old roof, lay down 1/2" plywood, then 2" ISO, then WIP HT, Lath, New Roof and do a Snap Loc so you won't have exposed fasteners. Then you can spray foam in the attic. Your house will fast forward to 2020 Efficiency Standards! Best, Matt
@Bigrignohio Yes, I think Open Cell foam is the way to go for our Hot/Humid climate zone. It could in theory dry to the inside but the idea of the full peal/seal is that you'll have little chance for a leak. It's certainly not as forgiving an old school vented roof but this certainly will be VERY efficient. -Matt
No, you can only do metal on a pitched roof. For a flat roof you can do the insulation as shown then cover with a white TPO roof which we often do with great success. Best, Matt
Hey Matt. Was the metal ridge vented? As in is there a ridge vent on the metal side..Obviously there is not a cut edge vent into the decking. Please let me know! I appreciate the video.
@uva3rdgen Yes it's a Kynar 500 factory painted roof. That Kynar coating has a very good reputation for longevity. The coating holds perfectly under foot traffic, and is slightly slick but holds well under foot when dry. I'll shoot a future video and show you the gutters and rainwater catchment system. Thanks, Matt
Remodel or New Construction? What part of the US? If there is no HVAC in the attic and your HVAC is inside of the conditioned space already there is no need to spray foam. I'd reduce or eliminate any penetrations in the drywall and do a thorough air sealing job and use standard insulation techniques. Matt
Dan, I'm using two layers of Water & Ice Shield on this roof and the foam inside is open cell. Ultimately, a leak "could" occur but the chances are greatly diminished and with open cell foam it will run through the foam and stain your ceiling to tell you there is a problem to address. The energy savings on this super insulated and air tight assembly are worth the minor risk compared to a traditional vented/insulated roof. Best, Matt
Very nice work. I would not have thought of using a herringbone or slanting layout like this. Solves the issue of locating the lath directly under the roof panel seams. You mentioned using 6.5" of spray foam under the roof. Is this open-cell foam to allow drying to the inside? With a under 0.1 perm peel-n-stick there would not be any exterior drying. I know this is a low risk with the waterproofing used but still possible, especially once the owner takes possession (satellite dish, etc.).
By putting peel and stick over the radiant barrier you loose the effect of the radiant barrier with no air gap. Why not put the peel and stick water barrier under the insulation and just tape the edge's of the insulated panel with foil tape then the 3\4 inch gap for the radiant barrier will work under the metal roof
Edgar, Thanks for watching my videos! Your plan seems solid. Be sure to face the techshield silver side down. It must have an air gap for it to work. I'm not sure what to recommend on the old metal. Seems like removing it would be best but I'd need to see the situation. I would use the Grace Ice/Water it's best practice. Thanks, Matt
Nice informative video! You have a true professional metal roofer that did your install. Lots of prep work. That roof will probably out last many others on the market. ✨💯👍
I'm using a cor-a-vent that's more like 1/2" thick. Maybe 3/4" tops. Sounds like you are doing some great work too! Thanks for watching, and for your comments. Best, Matt
The diagonal 1x4s are a great idea. Tho I don't think it would work with exposed fasteners (where the screws would run diagonal). Any issues with wasps nesting in that air space?
Matt, i was wondering if you ever followed up with the owners on how this roof performed? I was thinking about one for a log home that im interested in building and this system looks really nice and tight.
Let me get this straight. You left a gap between the ends of the 1x4 so that the roof could breath when the 1x4 create a 3/4 inch gap diagonally up the entire roof
I think that the polyiso is better in term of thermal resistance and should be put over the membrane. Most arizona houses are built with clay tiles and unconditioned attic! A giant solar dutch oven for the barely insulated ducts, the building code and city inspectors have no common sense.
How are you sealing the attic? At the roofline? What dead air are you referring to? I'd purchase the book "The Builders Guide" by Dr Joe Lstiburek for your climate zone and review the attic assemblies. You want to verify where your vapor barrier needs to be in your climate. Best, Matt
excellent presentation and step by step . I love Austin ...6th street?...anyway , leaving the airspace between the lath and the metal should actually decrease the probablility of condensation from my experience. Airflow is the name of the game and you have that. You may want to contact Tremco and see if they still have a program for estimating condensation problems before construction. good job on the video ! did you use a flip? 1
Wow a 10 year old video. In order for this to work, it needs air flow from intake and exhaust. It has an intake from the soffit flashing and he said there's a roof to wall vent. But @4:44, roof ridge doesn't look vented
How are those white metal roofs if you live in East Texas and you may also want to add a solar panel system. A simple straight ranch house.. Am enjoying all of your videos, thanks.
In your video you mentioned use of core-a-vent under the edge of the roof rake. Looking at their website it looks like the minimum thickness is 1". Is that what you used? For a smaller Habitat for Humanity Home that seems a bit out of proportion. I love what you do! I've been building green Habitat home in Mason for 8 yrs now. Payback is less that a year and a half...
It seems counterintuitive to use nails for underlayment. So many potential points of failure. Why don't we use a glue and shower pan liner material for roofing underlayment? Cost I'm sure, but wouldn't it be superior? I live in Burnet county, and I love your way of doing things the smartest way possible!
Hi Matt, How have roofing applications changed since 2011? Would you mind clarifying the details of the roof? In a previous video you stated that roof decking was applied, then WRB, then insulation over which furring strips then the metal roof. In this video details are: roof decking > 2 lays of board insulation > Carlise wip 300ht > furing/ventilation strips > metal roof. May I ask what details you would use for an asphalt shingle application on top of a cold roof (non-vented attic)? Thanks again, Great work!
@johnnymac1976 Interesting project! I think you could go either way, the benefit of the ice/water shield on top that any water that does get by the metal roof goes on top of the ice/water shield and is directed off the roof. If you ran it under the foam you might tend to trap more water long term. It's probably ok either way though. Matt
@MattRisinger Cool that your are doing white, energy efficient roofing. Hopefully we will see many more white roofs in the future. (Of course, Austin. Tx is known for progressive thinking, no surprise.) Two questions: How expensive is a roof like this compared to a typical asphalt shingle roof in Texas? Also, how do you keep bugs out from under the metal roof? It seems many insects and maybe even small rodents would like the area between the slats up under that standing seam metal roof.
OMG, you have been at this for a while. We are about to do Metal roof with Rigid insulation on the exterior, and spray foam on the interior. How has this been performing?
First off; your videos are so helpful, and thank you so much for sharing your knowledge. I am building next year on a lot I just bought in Bryan TX. Ive got 2 quick questions. 1) Does this WIP 300, act as a radiant barrier as a foil face would? I noticed you are using the 1x4 to create an air-gap as if it was a radiant barrier. Restrictions in my neighborhood don't allow for metal roof. Can a similar ventilated air barrier be used in a shingled roof application?
Oh man! I've watched some of your videos and at this point, I just want hire you to remodel my house - or better yet, (re)build my house from the ground up! I have a 1952 single fam. home in NoVA and have had to learn a lot of the maintenance/remodeling work myself, due to bad contractor experience(s). I am fascinated by the quality of you work, and the level of details is precisely how I tend to go about my projects (for which I've had to learn through different sources). In any case, here's the question about the roof: 1) Any thought in how this Shurluc 150 behave in the East coast wheater? 2) If there any condition to pay attention to when mounting equipment on the roof? e.g.: solar panels, satellite dish, etc. Thanks again for the good videos!
I'm about to install a smaller section of my roof with reflective metal sheets. Those that look like aluminum mirror. Should I return and get white instead? I just figured it what I have would reflect more.
@@buildshow Couple quick questions: 1. I'm planning a build of a small house (1000 sq ft) in East Texas (Longview area) and I want to have cathedral ceiling. I plan on using mini split a/c heat and wall system will be 2x4 with Rockwool, zip system, then 2" polyiso, metal siding on the outside. Metal roof on the top, simple gable structure. Pretty much monopoly. What's the best affordable system/insulation setup to get modern look and cathedral ceilings? I will have 2" polyiso on top of roof too. Also, is black metal roofing and siding a really bad idea? Thanks! Gary
Hello Matt, I also live in Texas. Our house has a vaulted ceiling in the living room so we have no attic / crawl space over a large portion of our roof. I am tempted to try something like this system to improve insulation. One concern I had when I watched this video was the 3/4 inch vent system you showed at the roof edge. That looks like it would be IDEAL for BEES or rodents to make a wonderful nest inside that space !. Is there screening over the vent area? Thank you for your time.
Also...there are many penetrations in the roof when you install the 45 degree lath strips. Do you think this is overkill for the long run perspective when you consider how much extra material you use for this system and the fact that this many penetrations greatly increases your chance for a leak?
The roofer discussed this issue in Matt's roofing video. Due to the highly reflective baked-on paint they use on metal roofing these days, the color is almost irrelevant. A high quality black metal roof can be almost as reflective as a white one. Technology advancement always marches on.
Matt, love the videos and I go to them all the time. I'm designing a home for the costal area of Southern Louisiana and I'm doing my best to design it for not only thermal efficiency, but also extreme weather durability - I'm also trying to keep cost as low as possible.My question: It seems you have had a couple variations to metal roofing and riged insulation build up over the years, Do you recommend a felt paper or other type of roof underlayment prior (under) the ridged insulation but on top of the roof sheathing?
Would you recommend spray foaming the rafters in the attic even though you are using ISO panels on the roof? I wonder how much difference it would make.
Thanks for the reply Matt, I was referring to hot humid air in the attic that can penetrate foam in the form of water vapor. Do you have any concerns since the attic is not ventilated that the plywood strength could suffer over the years? Im only posing the question, which is very debatable.
I live in Austin and on location at this home a week ago one of your foreman told me that on another project you had an issue with the ice and water shield breaking down under the extreme Texas heat and solar radiation. This eventually created a leak in a valley, and internal water damage. He said you had had bone back to good old 30# tar paper under the 45 degree lath strips as a result......is this correct?
Question... I have a membrane roof and vaulted ceilings, no attic. When it rains it is LOUD as heck!!! Can't hear someone talking next to you loud. When it's time to reroof, would something like this cut back on the noise or make it worse with the metal?
I'm building a mobile tiny house in San Antonio that will move to a temp zone 4 with lots of snow at some point. In my case would it be better to put the ice and water shield directly on the OSB decking, then install the foam?
Matt, I would think there would be a problem with the thermal bridge if you do closed cell on the bottom, and the vapor barrier on the top of the decking, because there would be no air flow for the wood. Is this not the case? I am new to this and looking to build a house very soon. Thanks for your help!
B B I heard Matt say the metal would have better bearing on the 1 X 4s if on a diagonal. Personally I would run the 1 x 4s vertically, with another layer on top horizontally, then metal roof, I think the drainage for condensation would be less likely to rot the wood, In addition the wood IMO should be pressure treated,
Hi Matt, have you revisited this site? Were there any moisture issues sandwiched with the OSB between poliiso and spray foam? Trying to plan an off grid cabin and all the insulation, venting and wrb options have my head spinning..
Nice videos, Matt! I have an old mobile home with rusted panels and I would like to do a metal roof-over using Techshield insulation board with built-in radiant top, Grace Ice and Water Shield on the Techshield, and standing seam metal panels over that. Is that a good plan? Am I right in thinking that I should remove the old metal first? Am I wrong in planning to use the moisture barrier? Thank you! -Edgar
I did NOT hear any mention of hemming the ends of your standing seam metal roof to allow the metal panels to heat up during the day and expand..then at cool off in the evening and contract ...IF YOU DON"T , YOU WILL GET "OILCANNING" ( buckling, the the fixed panels grow & shrink. A wicking membrane might have been a good idea AND I did NOT see how you roofers flashed the junctions of the various profiles / elevations of the roof ??
I live in a shipping container home and did closed cell insulation. You said its better not to vent attic? What should i use on roof to keep heat off container?
would need to dehumidify this roof in a humid Florida climate you think? I'm thinking of doing something similar, however, not sure if it's Florida code yet in HVHZ
Do you have to remove old roofing material to install metal roofs with this type of insulation? What about installing solar panels with this type of roofing concept? What are the challenges and solutions?
How do you know where to walk on the roof. If you walk directly on the flats of the metal but in a spot where there is no support under it, it seems that you would damage, bend, tear or dent the metal. Did you damage anything or did you just know where to walk? I have standing seam on my house. It was installed about 100+ years ago directly on top of the original cedar. The house was built in 1875, I recommend every building have metal; smart, green and responsible. Cost is only negative.
Great video Matt! What are your thoughts on using regular polystyrene instead of the polyiso board. I have a ton of the polystyrene 4 x8 x 1.5" sheets at basically no cost. I know it has a lower rvalue but would it work? Would it create a problem further on down the road? We are in Northeast, GA hot humid summers, mild winters, similar climate to yours. When I say polystyrene I mean styrofoam boards like the coolers you can by at the gas station.
Thanks Matt, that does make a lot of sense. Sounds like borderline poor design put the builder and product in an unfavorable position. What is your take on using 1 or 2 layers of 30# felt under the lath strips if budget is an issue?
what would you do in a situation of a cape cod home with knee walls and the very small attic at the peak? there isn't room to put a HVAC system in there, yet, its too costly to completely fill with spray foam...
Remodel, 1948 Cape Cod home in Columbus, Ohio. 2-3 inches of polyiso on roof deck, seal attic, and complete the switch to an unvented roof.... will moisture build up in the areas of dead space/air of the attic, since there is no place for the moisture to go?
Do you need to add water and ice on sheathing AND on top of foam? What if you just put it on sheathing or just on top of foam? Why not use xps instead of poly?
Matt Risinger , I have a standing seam metal roof, but the Achilles Heal is the ridge cap, which is held in place by screws using a metal washer and neoprene washer beneath. The neoprene totally deteriorated and allowed water to drip into my roof insulation. What a disappointment ! I expected that I would never see another roof leak on this structure after the standing seam installation which replaced the first metal roof that was secured by several thousand screws. I want to eliminate those screws (potential leaking points) on the ridge cap. Why is there not a clip system for the ridge cap, or is there ? I would greatly appreciate your feed back !
the newer roofing screws will use EPDM which is supposedly better. I'm not sure on the design of your standing seam roof, but if it's like this one then you could bend some somewhat hefty L-metal "clips" attached to the top of he roof such that the leg points toward the peak of the roof, and then fasten the bottom portion of the ridge cap to the raised leg of the l-metal. Then your fasteners wouldn't be needing to shed much water, and even if water got past them, it should trickle back down.
Matt, I understand that you put down 1/2" plywood for the base. Is there any barrier between the plywood and the polyiso? Also, because you were walking around on the insulating layer I was wondering if there is another later of plywood on top of the polyiso or does it have some sort of hard surface laminated to it? What brand do you use? Thanks!
On top of the roof sheathing I used one layer of Carlisle WIP 300HT underlayment then the Polyiso. I tend to use Carlisle's R+2 Silver Polyiso. On top of the foam I run another layer of WIP 300HT. You can walk on the foam no problem. It'll hold around 25Psi. Hope this helps, Matt
Yes, that helps a lot. The Carlisle products do not seem readily available in my area (or maybe just not to the public), do you know of any similar consumer-available products that could be used instead? For instance, I think there is a Certainteed brand of I&W shield available at Home Depot - would that work? And would any foil covered rigid foam insulation work or are there specific perameters/specifications I should look for?
Matt, are you still using this method with the 1x4's, or just Delta Trela for all metal roof regardless of pitch now? Any concern or issues with rot to the 1x4s? And any answers to the insect questions?
electric bill LOW- I bet if they lived there 18 yrs they would not break even for a roof job like this- Really lets hear the finished price with the atiic 5" foam etc... If you had simply placed vented 3" gap, not .75" inches you would have save them tons. I at lest liked that you 45 deg the battens rather than 90 deg across like so many Bozos/ Yes, quality, no question, but 3000 sf for $45,000 what was it please state.
Water clings to them if they run horizontal. If you run vertically your screws may all be floating without firm grip. At a 45 your batten are less likely to fail across one run.
People do things all the time that aren't about breaking even and money. Maybe they just want to be less of a burden on the energy infrastructure and do it because using less energy is a Good Thing.
It looks awesome. I'd like to see you go back in 5, 10 15, and 20 years to see how it holds up. The true test of any product is how it holds up and preforms over time.
***** I did have to go back and re-roof a metal roof several years ago, but not this one. The issue was a scupper leak on a flat roof (the metal roof hadn't leaked but I pulled it to be certain), but while I was there I pulled the metal roof and found the WIP underlayment fried to a crisp under the metal. That was my first house with PolyIso on the roof and I used on layer of WIP on the roof deck then 2" of polyiso then another WIP then the metal roof directly on top. Lesson learned is that even High Temp rated WIP can get super hot under a non-vented metal roof. This video shows my current method and is working perfectly. I've been doing this method for several years and this is really best practice. Matt
Matt Risinger Hello Matt, I am from Jamaica where it's always summer;this roof looks GREAT. However since air is allowed to flow under the metal sheeting wouldn't it be susceptible to high winds? Would this roof survive a Category 4 hurricane?
Hmm, I was thinking about doing slate with a counter batten sandwiching a radiant barrier between.
@ 2:10 you said grace lol instead of carlisle lolololol
I see you created room for air flow under the metal but what about venting it?
At minute 4:40 of the video I see the peak but it appears to have no venting.
Have you found it better to put the weather barrier on top or the insulation? Does it make a difference?
Thanks for commenting! In general the cost of a metal roof is about 1.5-2x compared to a shingle roof. This system is more than that, but I'm doing a Best Practice system. Bugs are kept out of the 3/4" lath air gap with a Cor-A-Vent at the eave. It would have to be a very small bug to get into that space. Matt Risinger
Can update us on how this system is doing now after 8 years?? Thank you
Waiting
Im also interested on the update.
Same here
Wouldn’t have that problem with a container house
What is the update on this house Matt?
Thanks for the complements, the video's are fun to make and the information dissemination only helps us all get better. On your questions, no the Grace WIP HT isn't a radiant barrier but the metal roof is. The air gap is two fold, one to create a space for the radiant barrier on the back of the roof panel to work, next to allow drainage of any water that gets past the metal, and lastly to lower the temp of the WIP by not touching the metal to it.
What is the newer product that you're using instead of WIP HT ?
@nadroj540 I see what you're saying but I don't see why it would condense on the backside. We've got 2" of foam on the roof top then 5.5" inside so there is little chance the house will be cooling the metal from leaked AC. That metal roof should be the same temp on the top and bottom sides. If condensation does occur there is a 3/4" air space vented top & bottom to bring that moisture out. This is really best practice method for doing a metal roof in our climate zone. -Matt Risinger
@boardman4ever101 True we do have more penetrations, but that's the reason for the Water & Ice protection membrane. It's a self sealing product that should last the length of the metal roofs life. The 3/4" air space gives any water that gets into that space the ability to dry or drain. This really is a best practice method for roofing in this climate zone. Matt Risinger
Bees, hornets, and wasps. Love those vents.
Good. We need to give bees, hornets, and wasps shelter before they're extinct.
Thanks for your kind comments! Good point on the condensation. Yes that's my cheap Flip video camera work on this video. Just upgraded to the HD version a few months ago. Got a HD Flip on sale for $70. Tough to beat. I keep meaning to upgrade to a good camera with a wireless mic but don't want to spend the $money$. Someday... Matt Risinger
On the shingle roof check out Hunter Panels made in Houston. They sandwich Plywood with a radiant barrier, then an air gap, then 1-5" or rigid foam. You could apply that over your decking to create a sealed attic. Best, Matt
@largeview Thanks for your kind comments. The plumbing vents do penetrate the roof and terminate above the metal. Best, Matt Risinger
@Rockytxv The support under the ISO is full 1/2" roof plywood. I would think you could use Extruded Polystyrene as well, that would be less expensive. It will get hot under that roof even with the 3/4" lath, I would expect the top of the foam to be upwards of 120 degrees on a hot July day. -Matt
Good Question. With this 24ga metal it's really rigid and won't dent if you walk in the middle by accident. It's pretty easy to tell where the slats are when you are walking the roof. I totally agree on the metal comments. Excellent roofing choice. It's more costly in the short term, but the beauty of putting it down when building/remodeling is the bank will finance it for you. If you shingle your roof in Texas it's a near guarantee you'll get hail damage in 1-10 years. Matt Risinger
I wonder what the before and after energy savings were on this house. My new build will use this roof system with an unvented attic. Excellent video, thank you!
@boardman4ever101 That's partially true. The home you are talking about had 2" of rigid foam, then WIP HT, then a dark metal roof with no air gap. We had a wall flashing issue where the valley dumped onto a flat roof and when we investigated we found the WIP HT was badly degraded after only 1 year. We made the decision to pull the dark metal roof, rip off the WIP HT and go back with double 30lb felt but we added lath to create a 3/4" air space like what you see in this video. Matt
I love looking at your videos. You are always doing the latest things it like seeing the pages of fine home building come to life. Thanks for sharing.
Yes it does. See my other videos on conditioned attics. If you are in the hot/humid Southern US then bringing your ducts inside the AC space of your house is a HUGE upgrade in efficiency for your house. This rigid foam on the roof deck is one of several ways to create a conditioned attic. This particular house has both rigid from on top and spray foam inside so there are two types of insulation at the roof line. Hope this helps! Best, Matt
Where in Texas can I get the poly iso board ? I’m in Rockport
I wish there was more of the roof being shown as opposed to telling us what you did looks good at the end I think what people want to see is the process of the installation
Hey Matt, can you give an update on how this roof is performing?
The Build Show. I have seen this one. It gave me some ideas for my own project.
Good Question. How old is your house? I assume your metal roof is screwed to 1x4 Lath directly on the roof rafters? I wouldn't recommend laying foam over the metal roof. Pull the old roof, lay down 1/2" plywood, then 2" ISO, then WIP HT, Lath, New Roof and do a Snap Loc so you won't have exposed fasteners. Then you can spray foam in the attic. Your house will fast forward to 2020 Efficiency Standards! Best, Matt
5 v grmiped is stronger for Hurricanes for sure Thank you make sure its regal white or reflecting white
@Bigrignohio Yes, I think Open Cell foam is the way to go for our Hot/Humid climate zone. It could in theory dry to the inside but the idea of the full peal/seal is that you'll have little chance for a leak. It's certainly not as forgiving an old school vented roof but this certainly will be VERY efficient. -Matt
Matt Risinger can I use 2x4 instead of 1x4 for the venting?
No, you can only do metal on a pitched roof. For a flat roof you can do the insulation as shown then cover with a white TPO roof which we often do with great success. Best, Matt
Hey Matt. Was the metal ridge vented? As in is there a ridge vent on the metal side..Obviously there is not a cut edge vent into the decking. Please let me know! I appreciate the video.
Never mind! U answered this in the video!
@uva3rdgen Yes it's a Kynar 500 factory painted roof. That Kynar coating has a very good reputation for longevity. The coating holds perfectly under foot traffic, and is slightly slick but holds well under foot when dry. I'll shoot a future video and show you the gutters and rainwater catchment system. Thanks, Matt
Thanks, really appreciate the feedback. Matt
Remodel or New Construction? What part of the US? If there is no HVAC in the attic and your HVAC is inside of the conditioned space already there is no need to spray foam. I'd reduce or eliminate any penetrations in the drywall and do a thorough air sealing job and use standard insulation techniques. Matt
Dan, I'm using two layers of Water & Ice Shield on this roof and the foam inside is open cell. Ultimately, a leak "could" occur but the chances are greatly diminished and with open cell foam it will run through the foam and stain your ceiling to tell you there is a problem to address. The energy savings on this super insulated and air tight assembly are worth the minor risk compared to a traditional vented/insulated roof. Best, Matt
Very nice work. I would not have thought of using a herringbone or slanting layout like this. Solves the issue of locating the lath directly under the roof panel seams. You mentioned using 6.5" of spray foam under the roof. Is this open-cell foam to allow drying to the inside? With a under 0.1 perm peel-n-stick there would not be any exterior drying. I know this is a low risk with the waterproofing used but still possible, especially once the owner takes possession (satellite dish, etc.).
Lets see this roof now, 11 years later. I think that would be a great witness. Any chance?
By putting peel and stick over the radiant barrier you loose the effect of the radiant barrier with no air gap. Why not put the peel and stick water barrier under the insulation and just tape the edge's of the insulated panel with foil tape then the 3\4 inch gap for the radiant barrier will work under the metal roof
Edgar, Thanks for watching my videos! Your plan seems solid. Be sure to face the techshield silver side down. It must have an air gap for it to work. I'm not sure what to recommend on the old metal. Seems like removing it would be best but I'd need to see the situation. I would use the Grace Ice/Water it's best practice. Thanks, Matt
Nice informative video! You have a true professional metal roofer that did your install. Lots of prep work. That roof will probably out last many others on the market. ✨💯👍
I'm using a cor-a-vent that's more like 1/2" thick. Maybe 3/4" tops. Sounds like you are doing some great work too! Thanks for watching, and for your comments. Best, Matt
It looks good, but I'm concerned about the 1x4's how long will they last with moisture from metal.
Some use 2 x 4s. It looks like he is using 12-inch OC so there should be a lot of wood to get a bite. Lots better than just the decking.
The diagonal 1x4s are a great idea. Tho I don't think it would work with exposed fasteners (where the screws would run diagonal). Any issues with wasps nesting in that air space?
No workers on the movie?
Looks fantastic.
Matt, i was wondering if you ever followed up with the owners on how this roof performed? I was thinking about one for a log home that im interested in building and this system looks really nice and tight.
Let me get this straight. You left a gap between the ends of the 1x4 so that the roof could breath when the 1x4 create a 3/4 inch gap diagonally up the entire roof
I thought it was so when they heat up & expand, they won't press against each other, i.e., an expansion gap.
I think that the polyiso is better in term of thermal resistance and should be put over the membrane. Most arizona houses are built with clay tiles and unconditioned attic! A giant solar dutch oven for the barely insulated ducts, the building code and city inspectors have no common sense.
How are you sealing the attic? At the roofline? What dead air are you referring to? I'd purchase the book "The Builders Guide" by Dr Joe Lstiburek for your climate zone and review the attic assemblies. You want to verify where your vapor barrier needs to be in your climate. Best, Matt
2" insulation 3/4board 1/2" decking 1/8 ice and water shield 1/16 tin =basically 3 1/2 inches you needed a 4 and 1/2 inch screw at least
excellent presentation and step by step . I love Austin ...6th street?...anyway , leaving the airspace between the lath and the metal should actually decrease the probablility of condensation from my experience. Airflow is the name of the game and you have that. You may want to contact Tremco and see if they still have a program for estimating condensation problems before construction. good job on the video ! did you use a flip?
1
Wow a 10 year old video. In order for this to work, it needs air flow from intake and exhaust. It has an intake from the soffit
flashing and he said there's a roof to wall vent. But @4:44, roof ridge doesn't look vented
An outstanding way to go with metal, really energy savings!
How are those white metal roofs if you live in East Texas and you may also want to add a solar panel system. A simple straight ranch house..
Am enjoying all of your videos, thanks.
Never use 1x4s ... use hat rail, will hold up way better over time. Wood under a metal roof is a noob move. =[
In your video you mentioned use of core-a-vent under the edge of the roof rake. Looking at their website it looks like the minimum thickness is 1". Is that what you used? For a smaller Habitat for Humanity Home that seems a bit out of proportion.
I love what you do! I've been building green Habitat home in Mason for 8 yrs now. Payback is less that a year and a half...
It seems counterintuitive to use nails for underlayment. So many potential points of failure. Why don't we use a glue and shower pan liner material for roofing underlayment? Cost I'm sure, but wouldn't it be superior?
I live in Burnet county, and I love your way of doing things the smartest way possible!
Hi Matt, How have roofing applications changed since 2011? Would you mind clarifying the details of the roof? In a previous video you stated that roof decking was applied, then WRB, then insulation over which furring strips then the metal roof. In this video details are: roof decking > 2 lays of board insulation > Carlise wip 300ht > furing/ventilation strips > metal roof. May I ask what details you would use for an asphalt shingle application on top of a cold roof (non-vented attic)? Thanks again, Great work!
HE'S SO YOUNG!
@johnnymac1976 Interesting project! I think you could go either way, the benefit of the ice/water shield on top that any water that does get by the metal roof goes on top of the ice/water shield and is directed off the roof. If you ran it under the foam you might tend to trap more water long term. It's probably ok either way though. Matt
@MattRisinger Cool that your are doing white, energy efficient roofing. Hopefully we will see many more white roofs in the future. (Of course, Austin. Tx is known for progressive thinking, no surprise.) Two questions: How expensive is a roof like this compared to a typical asphalt shingle roof in Texas? Also, how do you keep bugs out from under the metal roof? It seems many insects and maybe even small rodents would like the area between the slats up under that standing seam metal roof.
OMG, you have been at this for a while. We are about to do Metal roof with Rigid insulation on the exterior, and spray foam on the interior. How has this been performing?
First off; your videos are so helpful, and thank you so much for sharing your knowledge. I am building next year on a lot I just bought in Bryan TX. Ive got 2 quick questions. 1) Does this WIP 300, act as a radiant barrier as a foil face would? I noticed you are using the 1x4 to create an air-gap as if it was a radiant barrier. Restrictions in my neighborhood don't allow for metal roof. Can a similar ventilated air barrier be used in a shingled roof application?
Oh man! I've watched some of your videos and at this point, I just want hire you to remodel my house - or better yet, (re)build my house from the ground up! I have a 1952 single fam. home in NoVA and have had to learn a lot of the maintenance/remodeling work myself, due to bad contractor experience(s). I am fascinated by the quality of you work, and the level of details is precisely how I tend to go about my projects (for which I've had to learn through different sources).
In any case, here's the question about the roof:
1) Any thought in how this Shurluc 150 behave in the East coast wheater?
2) If there any condition to pay attention to when mounting equipment on the roof? e.g.: solar panels, satellite dish, etc.
Thanks again for the good videos!
I'm about to install a smaller section of my roof with reflective metal sheets. Those that look like aluminum mirror. Should I return and get white instead? I just figured it what I have would reflect more.
Oooonnn.. The BUILD shoooooowwww!
👍🏻
Leeets get goooin!
@@buildshow Couple quick questions:
1. I'm planning a build of a small house (1000 sq ft) in East Texas (Longview area) and I want to have cathedral ceiling. I plan on using mini split a/c heat and wall system will be 2x4 with Rockwool, zip system, then 2" polyiso, metal siding on the outside. Metal roof on the top, simple gable structure. Pretty much monopoly.
What's the best affordable system/insulation setup to get modern look and cathedral ceilings? I will have 2" polyiso on top of roof too.
Also, is black metal roofing and siding a really bad idea?
Thanks!
Gary
Hello Matt,
I also live in Texas. Our house has a vaulted ceiling in the living room so we have no attic / crawl space over a large portion of our roof. I am tempted to try something like this system to improve insulation. One concern I had when I watched this video was the 3/4 inch vent system you showed at the roof edge. That looks like it would be IDEAL for BEES or rodents to make a wonderful nest inside that space !. Is there screening over the vent area?
Thank you for your time.
Also...there are many penetrations in the roof when you install the 45 degree lath strips. Do you think this is overkill for the long run perspective when you consider how much extra material you use for this system and the fact that this many penetrations greatly increases your chance for a leak?
Super good job.
9 years latter he puts a hot brown roof on his own home remodel because of the "looks" but he does put reflective foil underneath at least.
The roofer discussed this issue in Matt's roofing video. Due to the highly reflective baked-on paint they use on metal roofing these days, the color is almost irrelevant. A high quality black metal roof can be almost as reflective as a white one. Technology advancement always marches on.
Matt, love the videos and I go to them all the time. I'm designing a home for the costal area of Southern Louisiana and I'm doing my best to design it for not only thermal efficiency, but also extreme weather durability - I'm also trying to keep cost as low as possible.My question: It seems you have had a couple variations to metal roofing and riged insulation build up over the years, Do you recommend a felt paper or other type of roof underlayment prior (under) the ridged insulation but on top of the roof sheathing?
David Colley good question. I’m about to build a camp in Mississippi and have questions as well. I’m a waterproofer by trade.
Is there any concern for bugs making a home within the roof air gap?
Wolfsburg639 Google cor-a-vent. would also recommend reading all the comments which helped answer my questions. hope this helps
Wolfsburg639 S
Would you recommend spray foaming the rafters in the attic even though you are using ISO panels on the roof? I wonder how much difference it would make.
Matt, since you built up the roof with thick insulation, could you still add solar panels sometime in the future?
Thanks for the reply Matt, I was referring to hot humid air in the attic that can penetrate foam in the form of water vapor. Do you have any concerns since the attic is not ventilated that the plywood strength could suffer over the years? Im only posing the question, which is very debatable.
I live in Austin and on location at this home a week ago one of your foreman told me that on another project you had an issue with the ice and water shield breaking down under the extreme Texas heat and solar radiation. This eventually created a leak in a valley, and internal water damage. He said you had had bone back to good old 30# tar paper under the 45 degree lath strips as a result......is this correct?
Question... I have a membrane roof and vaulted ceilings, no attic. When it rains it is LOUD as heck!!! Can't hear someone talking next to you loud. When it's time to reroof, would something like this cut back on the noise or make it worse with the metal?
I'm building a mobile tiny house in San Antonio that will move to a temp zone 4 with lots of snow at some point. In my case would it be better to put the ice and water shield directly on the OSB decking, then install the foam?
how come you didn't install the reflective stuff that goes between the metal roof and the roof?
Matt, I would think there would be a problem with the thermal bridge if you do closed cell on the bottom, and the vapor barrier on the top of the decking, because there would be no air flow for the wood. Is this not the case? I am new to this and looking to build a house very soon. Thanks for your help!
Was a asphalt paper used between the sheathing and the rigid foam or just the peel and stick system outside the foam?
Matt, why not run the 1x4's vertically, to give the metal panels direct ventilation, bottom to top? Why would 45 degrees be better?
B B I heard Matt say the metal would have better bearing on the 1 X 4s if on a diagonal. Personally I would run the 1 x 4s vertically, with another layer on top horizontally, then metal roof, I think the drainage for condensation would be less likely to rot the wood, In addition the wood IMO should be pressure treated,
@@RJ-sr5dv pressure treated wood contains copper. Dissimilar metals between that and the steel will react.
Hi Matt, have you revisited this site? Were there any moisture issues sandwiched with the OSB between poliiso and spray foam? Trying to plan an off grid cabin and all the insulation, venting and wrb options have my head spinning..
Nice videos, Matt! I have an old mobile home with rusted panels and I would like to do a metal roof-over using Techshield insulation board with built-in radiant top, Grace Ice and Water Shield on the Techshield, and standing seam metal panels over that. Is that a good plan? Am I right in thinking that I should remove the old metal first? Am I wrong in planning to use the moisture barrier? Thank you! -Edgar
I did NOT hear any mention of hemming the ends of your standing seam metal roof to allow the metal panels to heat up during the day and expand..then at cool off in the evening and contract ...IF YOU DON"T , YOU WILL GET "OILCANNING" ( buckling, the the fixed panels grow & shrink. A wicking membrane might have been a good idea AND I did NOT see how you roofers flashed the junctions of the various profiles / elevations of the roof ??
I live in a shipping container home and did closed cell insulation. You said its better not to vent attic? What should i use on roof to keep heat off container?
would need to dehumidify this roof in a humid Florida climate you think? I'm thinking of doing something similar, however, not sure if it's Florida code yet in HVHZ
Do you have to remove old roofing material to install metal roofs with this type of insulation?
What about installing solar panels with this type of roofing concept? What are the challenges and solutions?
How do you know where to walk on the roof. If you walk directly on the flats of the metal but in a spot where there is no support under it, it seems that you would damage, bend, tear or dent the metal. Did you damage anything or did you just know where to walk? I have standing seam on my house. It was installed about 100+ years ago directly on top of the original cedar. The house was built in 1875, I recommend every building have metal; smart, green and responsible. Cost is only negative.
On average in Texas, Hail storms come every 7 years!
Great video Matt! What are your thoughts on using regular polystyrene
instead of the polyiso board. I have a ton of the polystyrene 4 x8 x
1.5" sheets at basically no cost. I know it has a lower rvalue but
would it work? Would it create a problem further on down the road? We are in Northeast, GA hot humid summers, mild winters, similar climate to yours. When I say polystyrene I mean styrofoam boards like the coolers you can by at the gas station.
Nice work!!
Thanks Matt, that does make a lot of sense. Sounds like borderline poor design put the builder and product in an unfavorable position. What is your take on using 1 or 2 layers of 30# felt under the lath strips if budget is an issue?
what would you do in a situation of a cape cod home with knee walls and the very small attic at the peak? there isn't room to put a HVAC system in there, yet, its too costly to completely fill with spray foam...
Remodel, 1948 Cape Cod home in Columbus, Ohio.
2-3 inches of polyiso on roof deck, seal attic, and complete the switch to an unvented roof.... will moisture build up in the areas of dead space/air of the attic, since there is no place for the moisture to go?
what about for an existing roof, will attic foil radiant barriers work from the inside, or recommend doing some of this during a re-roof?
Do you need to add water and ice on sheathing AND on top of foam? What if you just put it on sheathing or just on top of foam? Why not use xps instead of poly?
Does this external insulation board make noise with shrinking and swelling under heat changes?
Do you have any concerns with dry rot in the future for the plywood sheathing that is encapsulated and not allowed to breath?
Matt Risinger , I have a standing seam metal roof, but the Achilles Heal is the ridge cap, which is held in place by screws using a metal washer and neoprene washer beneath. The neoprene totally deteriorated and allowed water to drip into my roof insulation. What a disappointment ! I expected that I would never see another roof leak on this structure after the standing seam installation which replaced the first metal roof that was secured by several thousand screws. I want to eliminate those screws (potential leaking points) on the ridge cap. Why is there not a clip system for the ridge cap, or is there ?
I would greatly appreciate your feed back !
the newer roofing screws will use EPDM which is supposedly better.
I'm not sure on the design of your standing seam roof, but if it's like this one then you could bend some somewhat hefty L-metal "clips" attached to the top of he roof such that the leg points toward the peak of the roof, and then fasten the bottom portion of the ridge cap to the raised leg of the l-metal. Then your fasteners wouldn't be needing to shed much water, and even if water got past them, it should trickle back down.
What siding option did you use and how did you you keep that separation at the vent?
Matt, I understand that you put down 1/2" plywood for the base. Is there any barrier between the plywood and the polyiso? Also, because you were walking around on the insulating layer I was wondering if there is another later of plywood on top of the polyiso or does it have some sort of hard surface laminated to it? What brand do you use? Thanks!
On top of the roof sheathing I used one layer of Carlisle WIP 300HT underlayment then the Polyiso. I tend to use Carlisle's R+2 Silver Polyiso. On top of the foam I run another layer of WIP 300HT. You can walk on the foam no problem. It'll hold around 25Psi. Hope this helps, Matt
Yes, that helps a lot. The Carlisle products do not seem readily available in my area (or maybe just not to the public), do you know of any similar consumer-available products that could be used instead? For instance, I think there is a Certainteed brand of I&W shield available at Home Depot - would that work? And would any foil covered rigid foam insulation work or are there specific perameters/specifications I should look for?
***** I was wondering the same thing.
Matt, are you still using this method with the 1x4's, or just Delta Trela for all metal roof regardless of pitch now? Any concern or issues with rot to the 1x4s? And any answers to the insect questions?
No follow up? Geez
@@victoreous626 Hes busy lol. I paid for Matt's premium and gotten zero responses to my questions
Matt how does the ridge vent looks closed off to me,,,,,what changed about the under laymen the frying
does putting the rigid foam on the deck require conditioning the attic?
How do you keep wasps from nesting in that air gap?
electric bill LOW- I bet if they lived there 18 yrs they would not break even for a roof job like this- Really lets hear the finished price with the atiic 5" foam etc... If you had simply placed vented 3" gap, not .75" inches you would have save them tons. I at lest liked that you 45 deg the battens rather than 90 deg across like so many Bozos/ Yes, quality, no question, but 3000 sf for $45,000 what was it please state.
Why is it better to have the slates at 45 degrees?
Water clings to them if they run horizontal. If you run vertically your screws may all be floating without firm grip. At a 45 your batten are less likely to fail across one run.
What do you mean 3" gap instead of .75? Do you mean raining the metal roof 3" from the decking or the gaps between the 1x4s?
People do things all the time that aren't about breaking even and money. Maybe they just want to be less of a burden on the energy infrastructure and do it because using less energy is a Good Thing.
How do you vent the moisture out of those houses that are wrapped up so air tight? Just have to run dehumidifiers?
He utilizes a HRV that replaces the air within the home several times a day, as well as a stand alone dehumidifier.
So, on a 33 square single family dwelling in Long Beach CA (soCal), I must wonder what this kind of roof would cost, per square?
Well over 1,200