That was almost certainly the washer. The centrifugal weights move outward, and they generate the greatest force at a right angle. Because of the washer, the normal operating range of the three weights is shifted further inward again. As a result, they exert more force, and the proportional (P) component of the control is strengthened or becomes more aggressive. Good repair 👍👍
Also I would like to add that the travel of the linkage is raised - that thin washer will translate to over a quarter of an inch at the end of the governor arm. Hence why James had to calibrate it after assembly. Those springs are wound with a specific tension by design - the absence of the washer would be enough to weaken the counter-force. If James had replaced the existing spring with a slightly stronger one that likely would have also worked but would have been a bit of a faf trying to work out the correct tension.
All you James Condon Fans, James and I and possibly Gary Bernacki will be LIVE tomorrow answering questions at 9pm EST. Please join us with your questions!
the washer probably helped, but right at the start of the video, I thought I noticed that the governor shaft was slipping when you tested the travel, the arm moved but it looked like the shaft wasn't always. great videos!
I've just looked again and I think you are right ! The shaft does move eventually, but there is independent movement over the first few degrees of the lever moving.
Timestamp? Edit: yes at 2:40 definitely. Funny, I brought James a generator when I met him last month where I was having governor issues and this was the issue he quickly found and pointed out to me
Fly-Ball governor, been used since 1850 in the steam world.. It's amazing that .030" on one end, translates to an 1/8" on the other end of the fulcrum...Without the washer, the fly-ball was probably maxed out on its travel..
I'm not sure about this. If the arm was up against the pin as it should be (ie the adjustment was correct, as James showed at the beginning), the travel should be the same. I believe the answer is friction. Without the washer, there was more friction between the gear and the case, and that pin has to push pretty hard on the governor arm (note the dimple at the spot it touches), so the force against the case would also be high. With some extra friction there, the governor has less force to push the arm.
That sucks that you got this whole thing back together, only to find out that you would have to take it back apart again. That's the small engine game, I guess. That's why we love it, lol. I'm about to go pick up a mower and an edger in a few minutes. I'm about to get kicked out of the house if I bring in any more junk. The boss isn't happy, lol. She'll be happy when i sell it all this Spring.
Amazing deep dive into an annoying issue. Very, very precise and step by step analysis to determine the problem. The "missing washer" theory works, but putting the additonal NEW parts in makes it more complicated. The only way to know for sure was put in the "washer" ALONE with the old part. THAT would have created a LOT of extra work. SO, I think it was the "old part" that caused the problem. Replacing with the "new" part PLUS washer solved the problem. Good for you!! Thanks again!!
James that was a very good fix. Yes, you found and repaired the defect in this engine. I certainly believe that one missing shim in a governor can cause a profound change in the droop. I have no experience with these type of governors, but I know we used to adjust speed settings on certain diesel engine governors back in the old days, by adding or removing shims from the governor springs.
As I told my daughter years ago when she called while having her car serviced for a water pump issue. She wanted to know why the service man suggested a timing belt replacement at the same time, I told her "definitely". The mechanic had it all apart anyway, the timing belt at that stage was almost 5 years and 50,000 miles old. If you're THAT close and all that work already done, definitely go a step further as preventive maintenance. He could get it all back together and the belt go bad a week later. You were already in there so replace anything questionable. Good job James!
Aah James, I have a new designation for you. You are now the "Surgeon General" of small engines. You have the hands and the light touch of a surgeon. Your diagnostic powers are second to none and your remedies guarantee a succsessful outcome. Any technical engineering institute would snap you up as their lead Professor of small engines. Your years of videos alone could become a world standard for small engine maintenance.
James, I believe the linkage from the top hat and the internal paddle have quite some mechanical gain, the missing washer puts all these parts and the external arm in a quite different referenced position to one another. Probably the original governor would have been fine with the washer which seems to have been omitted in manufacture. A good result ! Incidentally, you do crack me up a bit with "measuring the Hertz", I bet you don't look at a thermometer to measure the Fahrenheits. 🙂
as previously mentioned, and a great catch... there was definitely a slip between the governor shaft & arm at the beginning of the tear down. washer could have added to the problem too . glad you got it fixed in any event . Great work, James !
Great save as always, James, your knowledge and experience, as well as fixing items right helps all of us DIYers and your post are always very informative. Keep posting. Thank You.
This is one of those times where throwing a part was needed, it's a good question why. Thanks, Mr. Condon, for showing us the repair on it I for one learn a little each time.
The governor output shaft likely had slipped from its initial set point. Or maybe it was moved and never reset to correct calibration. Sometimes the governor linkage rod to a carburetor throttle may need to be bent in the middle to adjust the distance between the carburetor and the governor lever to allow sufficient travel for full throttle opening. Droop would indicate a governor is over active responding to close the throttle. It could be inadequate jetting, too lean fuel mixture or possibly a too low float level, too low fuel or regulator pressure. Where the spring attachment holes locate on the governor, further out from the axis of that governor shaft reduces the response of the governor by the longer lever distance giving the spring that pulls the throttle open relatively more effect opposing the governor that is operating to pull down the rpm. Where different holes are available for the carburetor linkage arm, those are throttle travel response adjustments that adjust the sensitivity of the throttle to governor action, the nearer hole to the governor axis reducing sensitivity of the throttle, and the more distant from the axis hole for the linkage rod increasing the throttle response to governor action. There is a tug of war kind of equilibrium with parameters that can be tuned to get the most from the engine. And you proved engine power was available to not be cause for the droop. If it is drooping at full throttle nothing can be done about that except to reduce the load. But here the problem was full throttle was not being allowed by the behavior and / or geometry of the governor and linkages since a weak spring was ruled out.
In aviation, while troubleshooting electrical issues, we try not to change too many variable at one time before testing.....otherwise you don't know what fixed the problemo! Gotta love another happy ending. 👏
Great video as always! My opinion the missing washer caused an overall mismatch in the governor geometry. When you look at the total arm lengths of the components thers a ton of mechanical advantage. Thus, the huge difference in the location of the linkage to the carb arm. I believe the Chinamen lost the washer on original assembly, possibly this was the cause of the dropped valve??? The governor lost control of engine RPM on first startup??
Hi James, excellent video! I thought it was a stretch that the governor was at fault, must have been the thrust washer and a bit of wear on the plastic gear. Abe said it all! Rich
Well done. Patient and logical as always. Once in a while the parts cannon hits something. 😎 My guess - just a guess - is that the tremendous deceleration when that valve dropped subtly distorted the plastic part. It would probably take a surface plate and associated tools to detect.
You are amazing going to that length to fix this machine. I worked on generators for years myself. A job like this would not be cost effective for me to do, business wise.
I agree. The last thing I wanted to do was open up that engine again after the rebuild. Thankfully I don’t do this for a living or I would be out of business.
@ True for sure ! I fixed Onan RV generators and also much larger machines primarily. Sometimes after a storm I’d get the people with portables they usually neglected or annihilated from over use. I would only go so far on any of those and heaved many in our dumpster. I had one guy bring me a machine that was run in a shed or somewhere where it got so hot it melted all kinds of things. He insisted it didn’t. In the dumpster or come get it…..Onan’s were my real specialty and I became the Onan guru in my area and still do a job now and then. 77 and retired now.
Anyone else here suffering suffering from load tester envy??? I want one. I dragged Pop's GP3300 out yesterday and put about a load on it using a couple of 850 watt shop vacs. (Yes, Pop has two identical shop vacs. 😂) A few months ago I found my Kill-A-Watt meter gently used at a local second hand shop for $1. It's a handy little bugger! Pop's genny is now tuned and adjusted just in case she needs to be called into service during the snow and ice we're currently getting here in North Central Texas! 😅
Great video, I so enjoy watching. I have also learned so much from watching your videos. I have 2 generators in my car port NOW. To cold to work on them now. I may send you a vid of how they turn out
I can beleive the washer helped place the top hat at a critical height....but so did the snap ring. Maybe withiut one the other is not correctly installed. But you solved the problem and I learned I would never be doing this on my generator.
The thickness of that washer would be multiplied by the long lever arm attached to the governor shaft. Specifically the ratio of long arm to the shorter inside.
I've had a few governor failures in Honda GX / clone engines , and , it's amazing what can throw them off , especially when you have a bunch of kids who like to monkey around with stuff . Also , the holes in the blocks for the governor shaft / arm , will get egg shaped over time rendering the governor almost useless . You can get a new block , or , drill the hole over size and install a bushing . I installed a lot of bushings ...
I knew it wasn't going to be an adjustment to the spring and or replacement spring when I saw how long the video was. That was the giveaway for me, I knew this would be a tear down! Ya-hoo!
You can externally adjust the governor at the point of connection between the arm and the shaft. That will give you more force apply to the carburetor, and you then calibrate with the spring adjustor.😊
I believe the whole problem was that wear spot on the internal lever arm where the governor pin pushes. Originally, before any mechanical disturbance, the governor pin was centered on that wear hole, but after the trauma the governor pin landed slightly off center to the hole causing a governor side load and therefore binding. Also, when the swing lever moves the governor pin could be dropping in and out of the wear hole and that is not good either. Secondary parts replacement once again shifted the governor pin to a slightly different location on the lever arm randomly mitigating the side load issue. I would have bent the lever arm slightly to relocate the wear hole well away from the governor pin target spot.
That washer wasn't in place on the original setup, might have been missed at factory assembly right out the gate. The replacement came with one and is designed to be used in that assembly and showed in the results. In any case, results prove a win-win. It's definitely a worthy effort.
A dropped valve on such a low-hour machine shouldn't ever happen, which makes one wonder. A missing washer under the governor makes it even more suspicious that this engine lacked something in factory assembly; bad parts, bad workmanship, bad QC, or a combination of those. Well, it's been done right now and I'm pretty sure it will stay that way for a long time 👍👍
James: It may have been an optical allusion, but I thought that I saw a small movement between the governor shaft and the attached arm when you first were moving the arm. Thanks for the video.
Excellent work! It's amazing how small tolerances can significantly affect engine performance. Something I noticed is that the anti-bounce spring is very stretched, and when this happens, it reduces RPM fluctuations, but at the cost of causing a drop in RPMs under high loads. On my GX270, the original spring rusted, and the replacement I found was too large, so I had to trim it down until the RPM bounce stopped. With all due respect, James, could you try reducing the tension on that spring just enough to prevent bouncing? Under high loads, you'll likely notice less RPM loss.
Washer under governor created less resistance to rotation when generator was under load????? Interesting issue!!! If you don't know... I don't know who would... Greattt video!
My suspicion is the washer reduced the friction at that interaction between the gear and the case. That's where the gear bears down on the case (reaction force) when pushing against the governor, and I think it pushes pretty hard. Reducing that friction (washer) frees up some force from the governor gear to do its job. But without running some math on it that's just my suspicion!
I'm guessing the OEM added the washer to the replacement parts kit AFTER people complained about the droop issue. So instead of issuing a recall, they just correct the problem with the modified repair parts whenever a unit was fixed. And hoped that most people wouldn't even notice that the issue existed.
Well, Jim..if we go with what we saw, replacing the washer changed the governor alignment drastically. Could have been a combination of wear and maybe drag without the washer. A head scratcher fix is still a fix :)
That spring end is one thing definitely, but there is also another force involved, but as a torque. I don't know the force of that spring but it should be significant with regards to the governor weights. But the math says torque is length times force (M=r*F). There is a difference between the connecting points which is tensioning that spring even further, lengthwise. That tensioning of the spring would counter or assist the governor.
James, search Teslong 3.9mm for a new bore scope. It's 3.9mm (1.5") OD camera and flex line with 210 degree 2-way articulation via a control wheel on the handle, so you can even go though a carburetor on a trimmer to the inside of the cylinder or into the crankcase through the 2cycle ports, or go through the oil drain plug to the inside of a crankcase of any 4cycle engine. There is also its big brother that uses a joystick control to articulate 4-way.
James, when you took the tank off and you were moving the governor arm, the governor rod and the governor arm were not moving at the same time. The governor Rod was staying in one spot and you were moving the arm. Are you sure that that arm is just not tightened enough?
I always start with a governor reset on a small engine and then test it's function under load. Seen the governor arm on quite a few of those clone engines come out of adjustment. Also seen quite a few with a broken governor. Misaligned or worn or missing fly weights on the governor gear.
Excellent video James, definitely the washer, it sets the minimum base height for the governor, the real question is did it ever have that washer from the factory
Calibration; is the process of how you check something. Certification; is when something is aligned adjusted or is correct in its readings. That is why when you send something like a mic into a lab to get it checked. The calibration is them just going over the tool their process of checking it. When they're done and it does read correctly they give you a certification for the tool. It is literally a piece of paper saying that it is certified. That it is reading correctly. I did this for 20 years at work. Calibration is a process. Certification is when an adjustment or an alignment has been done and the tool part or unit is working correctly.
James, you're very focused and I'm not quite sure a small engine repair shop would have explored or solved the problem. Just wondering if the washer was a manufactures resolve to the problem you were having or was no washer a goof during assembly. Might be nice to know if Champion had a service update after the date of this engine.
The thickness of the washer would cause the fly weights to lift the center plunger a little more and drive the governor lever further causing more throttle under load.
The only thing I did notice was that of all the "external" efforts you did? I didn't see an attempt at a "recalabrating" of the governor arm to the piece that came up from the motor. I was also thinking: Had it been me? Upon finding that the engine had enough power to correct the droop under load? I probably would have simply screwed the throttle in until the meter read the correct hertz. Methinks? Employing either one or both of those? Would have "took up" the slack from the "not known at that point in time" missing washer with little to no harm to the governor linkage or assembly. Save in maybe "perhaps" a slight "stretching" of the governor spring after running some 5-10 k hours! But? Least NOW ya KNOW is fixed correctly and not lose sleep wondering! LOL! Of course you don't look like the "30 seconds or 30 feet whichever comes first" warranty kinda guy either! 🤣
I would say that the problem was definitely that missing washer. Anytime you are missing a part, that is just not good juju with engines small, medium or large. It can throw things off just enough that the engine will not run correctly.
My money is on governor reset. That could have been tried before replacing the governor. It is possible that some of the malice in the combustion palace impacted the governor arm enough to move it slightly but without marring it. Either way, seems to work great now, so it doesn't really matter
I think the washer was not installed during original assembly, so it was flawwed from the start. The 1st owner probably tried to compensate the loss of hertz by cranking up the spring and over done it, thus causing the valve failure.
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That was almost certainly the washer. The centrifugal weights move outward, and they generate the greatest force at a right angle. Because of the washer, the normal operating range of the three weights is shifted further inward again. As a result, they exert more force, and the proportional (P) component of the control is strengthened or becomes more aggressive.
Good repair 👍👍
Also I would like to add that the travel of the linkage is raised - that thin washer will translate to over a quarter of an inch at the end of the governor arm. Hence why James had to calibrate it after assembly. Those springs are wound with a specific tension by design - the absence of the washer would be enough to weaken the counter-force. If James had replaced the existing spring with a slightly stronger one that likely would have also worked but would have been a bit of a faf trying to work out the correct tension.
Process of elimination... It was doomed to be fixed when it entered your shop. Nice work!
This man is relentless… the most insignificant of outlayers don’t have a chance … Congratulations Sir James… you must truly be stoked after that one 💪
Yep!
All you James Condon Fans, James and I and possibly Gary Bernacki will be LIVE tomorrow answering questions at 9pm EST. Please join us with your questions!
I just watched the last live video 2 days ago, but I won't miss this one.
How to link in?? I've got questions!
Your attention to detail is incredible sir. I can’t imagine how many people would’ve walked away from this repair in frustration. Well done!!
the washer probably helped, but right at the start of the video, I thought I noticed that the governor shaft was slipping when you tested the travel, the arm moved but it looked like the shaft wasn't always. great videos!
Ìf that was the case well spotted !
I've just looked again and I think you are right ! The shaft does move eventually, but there is independent movement over the first few degrees of the lever moving.
Timestamp? Edit: yes at 2:40 definitely. Funny, I brought James a generator when I met him last month where I was having governor issues and this was the issue he quickly found and pointed out to me
Wow! That was incredible well spotted! 😄 I had to look again, and it looks like you are right. Not that I know much about these engines to begin with.
I think that's more of an optical illusion. That long rod vs. the very short flat on the shaft.
Fly-Ball governor, been used since 1850 in the steam world.. It's amazing that .030" on one end, translates to an 1/8" on the other end of the fulcrum...Without the washer, the fly-ball was probably maxed out on its travel..
Abe Frohman? The Sausage King of Chicago??
This makes the most sense as to what the issue was.
😊
I'm not sure about this. If the arm was up against the pin as it should be (ie the adjustment was correct, as James showed at the beginning), the travel should be the same. I believe the answer is friction. Without the washer, there was more friction between the gear and the case, and that pin has to push pretty hard on the governor arm (note the dimple at the spot it touches), so the force against the case would also be high. With some extra friction there, the governor has less force to push the arm.
@ definitely friction
Congratulations James. It takes a lot of tenacity and professionalism to dismantle what you have already done to achieve perfection.
That sucks that you got this whole thing back together, only to find out that you would have to take it back apart again. That's the small engine game, I guess. That's why we love it, lol. I'm about to go pick up a mower and an edger in a few minutes. I'm about to get kicked out of the house if I bring in any more junk. The boss isn't happy, lol. She'll be happy when i sell it all this Spring.
I didn’t catch or have any idea what was wrong but I’m now much closer to a governor expert. Thanks James!
Amazing deep dive into an annoying issue. Very, very precise and step by step analysis to determine the problem. The "missing washer" theory works, but putting the additonal NEW parts in makes it more complicated. The only way to know for sure was put in the "washer" ALONE with the old part. THAT would have created a LOT of extra work. SO, I think it was the "old part" that caused the problem. Replacing with the "new" part PLUS washer solved the problem. Good for you!!
Thanks again!!
James Condon loading up the parts cannon, lol. That's something I thought I would never see.
James that was a very good fix. Yes, you found and repaired the defect in this engine. I certainly believe that one missing shim in a governor can cause a profound change in the droop. I have no experience with these type of governors, but I know we used to adjust speed settings on certain diesel engine governors back in the old days, by adding or removing shims from the governor springs.
An exercise in the mind, resilience and skills required to achieve excellence. If you have sons, get them addicted to this channel. Thanks James.
As I told my daughter years ago when she called while having her car serviced for a water pump issue. She wanted to know why the service man suggested a timing belt replacement at the same time, I told her "definitely". The mechanic had it all apart anyway, the timing belt at that stage was almost 5 years and 50,000 miles old. If you're THAT close and all that work already done, definitely go a step further as preventive maintenance. He could get it all back together and the belt go bad a week later. You were already in there so replace anything questionable. Good job James!
Aah James, I have a new designation for you. You are now the "Surgeon General" of small engines. You have the hands and the light touch of a surgeon. Your diagnostic powers are second to none and your remedies guarantee a succsessful outcome. Any technical engineering institute would snap you up as their lead Professor of small engines. Your years of videos alone could become a world standard for small engine maintenance.
Well said surgeon
Stayed up in Australia just for this. ❤
Same but I’m in Texas USA
I'm in Guam
G'day Mate, or in your case, G'Evening!!
Maine here, enjoying another Condon class!
Lucky for me I get at 7:30pm in Thailand
James, I believe the linkage from the top hat and the internal paddle have quite some mechanical gain, the missing washer puts all these parts and the external arm in a quite different referenced position to one another. Probably the original governor would have been fine with the washer which seems to have been omitted in manufacture.
A good result !
Incidentally, you do crack me up a bit with "measuring the Hertz", I bet you don't look at a thermometer to measure the Fahrenheits. 🙂
as previously mentioned, and a great catch... there was definitely a slip between the governor shaft & arm at the beginning of the tear down. washer could have added to the problem too . glad you got it fixed in any event . Great work, James !
I truly respect and admire this man who will not take no for an answer.
Well done, James You can now sell that with a clear conscience and sleep well at night. Another great job Sir. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for this James! When the washer was added, the throw of the governor was increased. You nailed it.
Great save as always, James, your knowledge and experience, as well as fixing items right helps all of us DIYers and your post are always very informative.
Keep posting.
Thank You.
Love the way you go thru the repairs and when you make a mistake you come right out and admit it. Keep up the good work!
A loss of 10 Hertz Glad you made this video on this issue James
James, you're one of those technicians for whom "good enough" isn't adequate. It's gotta be as good as possible.
This is one of those times where throwing a part was needed, it's a good question why. Thanks, Mr. Condon, for showing us the repair on it I for one learn a little each time.
The governor washer sets the governor gear lash with the other gears. The height that the governor sits at is the critical component.
welcome to the 5 Herz Gubernor Washer, great fix James!
The governor output shaft likely had slipped from its initial set point. Or maybe
it was moved and never reset to correct calibration. Sometimes the governor
linkage rod to a carburetor throttle may need to be bent in the middle to adjust
the distance between the carburetor and the governor lever to allow sufficient
travel for full throttle opening. Droop would indicate a governor is over active
responding to close the throttle. It could be inadequate jetting, too lean fuel
mixture or possibly a too low float level, too low fuel or regulator pressure.
Where the spring attachment holes locate on the governor, further out from
the axis of that governor shaft reduces the response of the governor by the
longer lever distance giving the spring that pulls the throttle open relatively
more effect opposing the governor that is operating to pull down the rpm.
Where different holes are available for the carburetor linkage arm, those
are throttle travel response adjustments that adjust the sensitivity of the
throttle to governor action, the nearer hole to the governor axis reducing
sensitivity of the throttle, and the more distant from the axis hole for the
linkage rod increasing the throttle response to governor action. There
is a tug of war kind of equilibrium with parameters that can be tuned
to get the most from the engine. And you proved engine power was
available to not be cause for the droop. If it is drooping at full throttle
nothing can be done about that except to reduce the load. But here
the problem was full throttle was not being allowed by the behavior
and / or geometry of the governor and linkages since a weak spring
was ruled out.
The prior to this I thought the calibration adjustment should mostly compensate for lack of washer. Very interesting and informative. Thank you again.
In aviation, while troubleshooting electrical issues, we try not to change too many variable at one time before testing.....otherwise you don't know what fixed the problemo!
Gotta love another happy ending. 👏
It really HURTS when a generator loses 10 HERTZ!
You are a master James!
Well done, your diagnostic capabilities are awesome
Great video as always!
My opinion the missing washer caused an overall mismatch in the governor geometry. When you look at the total arm lengths of the components thers a ton of mechanical advantage. Thus, the huge difference in the location of the linkage to the carb arm.
I believe the Chinamen lost the washer on original assembly, possibly this was the cause of the dropped valve??? The governor lost control of engine RPM on first startup??
Hi James, excellent video! I thought it was a stretch that the governor was at fault, must have been the thrust washer and a bit of wear on the plastic gear. Abe said it all!
Rich
Well done. Patient and logical as always. Once in a while the parts cannon hits something. 😎 My guess - just a guess - is that the tremendous deceleration when that valve dropped subtly distorted the plastic part. It would probably take a surface plate and associated tools to detect.
Thank you for posting this most impressive video. Now I know a single washer can really affect engine performance.
You are amazing going to that length to fix this machine. I worked on generators for years myself. A job like this would not be cost effective for me to do, business wise.
I agree. The last thing I wanted to do was open up that engine again after the rebuild. Thankfully I don’t do this for a living or I would be out of business.
@ True for sure ! I fixed Onan RV generators and also much larger machines primarily. Sometimes after a storm I’d get the people with portables they usually neglected or annihilated from over use. I would only go so far on any of those and heaved many in our dumpster. I had one guy bring me a machine that was run in a shed or somewhere where it got so hot it melted all kinds of things. He insisted it didn’t. In the dumpster or come get it…..Onan’s were my real specialty and I became the Onan guru in my area and still do a job now and then. 77 and retired now.
Excellent once again for the WIN! Thank you for posting James
Anyone else here suffering suffering from load tester envy??? I want one.
I dragged Pop's GP3300 out yesterday and put about a load on it using a couple of 850 watt shop vacs. (Yes, Pop has two identical shop vacs. 😂)
A few months ago I found my Kill-A-Watt meter gently used at a local second hand shop for $1. It's a handy little bugger!
Pop's genny is now tuned and adjusted just in case she needs to be called into service during the snow and ice we're currently getting here in North Central Texas! 😅
Great video! Like you, I didn't think that it was going to fix that. Well done. Maybe the washer added enough space to make the correction.
It’s a lot of work for one person missing a washer. Love your show.
Great video, I so enjoy watching. I have also learned so much from watching your videos. I have 2 generators in my car port NOW.
To cold to work on them now. I may send you a vid of how they turn out
I can beleive the washer helped place the top hat at a critical height....but so did the snap ring. Maybe withiut one the other is not correctly installed. But you solved the problem and I learned I would never be doing this on my generator.
The thickness of that washer would be multiplied by the long lever arm attached to the governor shaft. Specifically the ratio of long arm to the shorter inside.
Nice fix James, I'm glad you got it working properly, such a nice machine 👍🏾🐕🐈⬛
I've had a few governor failures in Honda GX / clone engines , and , it's amazing what can throw them off , especially when you have a bunch of kids who like to monkey around with stuff .
Also , the holes in the blocks for the governor shaft / arm , will get egg shaped over time rendering the governor almost useless .
You can get a new block , or , drill the hole over size and install a bushing .
I installed a lot of bushings ...
Hi,
I use a bungee cord to lightly hold the governor control arm at full throttle while I rotate and tighten the governor shaft.
I would never have thought the washer made that much difference.
Another great, detailed video! Thanks again James.🙂
How cool, I watched the previous videos of this generator just yesterday!
Glad that you brought it back to fix the governor issues!
I knew it wasn't going to be an adjustment to the spring and or replacement spring when I saw how long the video was. That was the giveaway for me, I knew this would be a tear down! Ya-hoo!
You can externally adjust the governor at the point of connection between the arm and the shaft. That will give you more force apply to the carburetor, and you then calibrate with the spring adjustor.😊
I believe the whole problem was that wear spot on the internal lever arm where the governor pin pushes. Originally, before any mechanical disturbance, the governor pin was centered on that wear hole, but after the trauma the governor pin landed slightly off center to the hole causing a governor side load and therefore binding. Also, when the swing lever moves the governor pin could be dropping in and out of the wear hole and that is not good either. Secondary parts replacement once again shifted the governor pin to a slightly different location on the lever arm randomly mitigating the side load issue. I would have bent the lever arm slightly to relocate the wear hole well away from the governor pin target spot.
can't believe a washer made the difference....but....a new governor....maybe the manufacturer screwed up on the washer...either way great job James
That washer wasn't in place on the original setup, might have been missed at factory assembly right out the gate. The replacement came with one and is designed to be used in that assembly and showed in the results. In any case, results prove a win-win. It's definitely a worthy effort.
Awesome job!! I think that the new governor was an upgraded part that performed as it should. Thanks!
A dropped valve on such a low-hour machine shouldn't ever happen, which makes one wonder. A missing washer under the governor makes it even more suspicious that this engine lacked something in factory assembly; bad parts, bad workmanship, bad QC, or a combination of those. Well, it's been done right now and I'm pretty sure it will stay that way for a long time 👍👍
All I know is that you fixed it, nice, James
That missing thrust washer was the smoking gun, nice work!
Good job, that missing thrust washer keeps the plastic gear off the aluminum casing, prolly a needed chinesium upgrade…
James, James hes our man if he cant fix it no one can... great job on the gremlin in that engine... I wonder what it did on gasoline
James: It may have been an optical allusion, but I thought that I saw a small movement between the governor shaft and the attached arm when you first were moving the arm. Thanks for the video.
Excellent video. Way to go James. 🎉🎉
Nice work James has always.
Well...sometimes it's better to be lucky than good. In this case, you were both. Great video!
Congratulations on your success James! Also, Happy New Year to you and your family.
Excellent work! It's amazing how small tolerances can significantly affect engine performance. Something I noticed is that the anti-bounce spring is very stretched, and when this happens, it reduces RPM fluctuations, but at the cost of causing a drop in RPMs under high loads. On my GX270, the original spring rusted, and the replacement I found was too large, so I had to trim it down until the RPM bounce stopped. With all due respect, James, could you try reducing the tension on that spring just enough to prevent bouncing? Under high loads, you'll likely notice less RPM loss.
Just a thought,maybe that governor was missing the washer from day one,never ran right right out the box. great video as always!
It was missing from the factory. I did not remove the governor during the rebuild, only inspected it.
potentially GREAT information! Great vid James!!! THX
Washer under governor created less resistance to rotation when generator was under load????? Interesting issue!!! If you don't know... I don't know who would... Greattt video!
Nice diagnosis and repair.
Excellent job...hard to believe that is what it was.
My suspicion is the washer reduced the friction at that interaction between the gear and the case. That's where the gear bears down on the case (reaction force) when pushing against the governor, and I think it pushes pretty hard. Reducing that friction (washer) frees up some force from the governor gear to do its job. But without running some math on it that's just my suspicion!
Another excellent video James. Quick question mate. What are those black gloves you wear?
Good job as always James thanks for sharing
I'm guessing the OEM added the washer to the replacement parts kit AFTER people complained about the droop issue. So instead of issuing a recall, they just correct the problem with the modified repair parts whenever a unit was fixed. And hoped that most people wouldn't even notice that the issue existed.
Nice troubleshoot skills and repair.
A well informative video on the Governor..thank you…James”
Well, Jim..if we go with what we saw, replacing the washer changed the governor alignment drastically. Could have been a combination of wear and maybe drag without the washer. A head scratcher fix is still a fix :)
Nice job James keep it up. All the best for new year 😊
That spring end is one thing definitely, but there is also another force involved, but as a torque.
I don't know the force of that spring but it should be significant with regards to the governor weights.
But the math says torque is length times force (M=r*F). There is a difference between the connecting points which is tensioning that spring even further, lengthwise. That tensioning of the spring would counter or assist the governor.
James, search Teslong 3.9mm for a new bore scope.
It's 3.9mm (1.5") OD camera and flex line with 210 degree 2-way articulation via a control wheel on the handle, so you can even go though a carburetor on a trimmer to the inside of the cylinder or into the crankcase through the 2cycle ports, or go through the oil drain plug to the inside of a crankcase of any 4cycle engine.
There is also its big brother that uses a joystick control to articulate 4-way.
Chickanic uses one of those.
@@wb8nbs stay away her channel she saying always the fakes newes
The washer made the difference nice one today if you ever have to calibrate a governor
James, when you took the tank off and you were moving the governor arm, the governor rod and the governor arm were not moving at the same time. The governor Rod was staying in one spot and you were moving the arm. Are you sure that that arm is just not tightened enough?
Thank-you! As always!
Well done!
I always start with a governor reset on a small engine and then test it's function under load. Seen the governor arm on quite a few of those clone engines come out of adjustment. Also seen quite a few with a broken governor. Misaligned or worn or missing fly weights on the governor gear.
I believe you can also swap the anti-surge spring and the throttle linkage at the governor arm end.
Excellent video James, definitely the washer, it sets the minimum base height for the governor, the real question is did it ever have that washer from the factory
Unlikely that it ever did.
Calibration; is the process of how you check something.
Certification; is when something is aligned adjusted or is correct in its readings. That is why when you send something like a mic into a lab to get it checked. The calibration is them just going over the tool their process of checking it. When they're done and it does read correctly they give you a certification for the tool. It is literally a piece of paper saying that it is certified. That it is reading correctly. I did this for 20 years at work.
Calibration is a process.
Certification is when an adjustment or an alignment has been done and the tool part or unit is working correctly.
I am really surprised at the quality of the castings on this engine. Very clean, and smooth.
James, you're very focused and I'm not quite sure a small engine repair shop would have explored or solved the problem. Just wondering if the washer was a manufactures resolve to the problem you were having or was no washer a goof during assembly. Might be nice to know if Champion had a service update after the date of this engine.
I think it was a goof up at the factory.
Enjoyed the video. Thanks for sharing
The old washer trick ....lol works every time !
The thickness of the washer would cause the fly weights to lift the center plunger a little more and drive the governor lever further causing more throttle under load.
The only thing I did notice was that of all the "external" efforts you did? I didn't see an attempt at a "recalabrating" of the governor arm to the piece that came up from the motor.
I was also thinking: Had it been me? Upon finding that the engine had enough power to correct the droop under load? I probably would have simply screwed the throttle in until the meter read the correct hertz.
Methinks? Employing either one or both of those? Would have "took up" the slack from the "not known at that point in time" missing washer with little to no harm to the governor linkage or assembly. Save in maybe "perhaps" a slight "stretching" of the governor spring after running some 5-10 k hours!
But? Least NOW ya KNOW is fixed correctly and not lose sleep wondering! LOL!
Of course you don't look like the "30 seconds or 30 feet whichever comes first" warranty kinda guy either! 🤣
I would say that the problem was definitely that missing washer. Anytime you are missing a part, that is just not good juju with engines small, medium or large. It can throw things off just enough that the engine will not run correctly.
My money is on governor reset. That could have been tried before replacing the governor.
It is possible that some of the malice in the combustion palace impacted the governor arm enough to move it slightly but without marring it.
Either way, seems to work great now, so it doesn't really matter
on the really close look did notice the the shaft of the govenor was a bit loose on the turn twisting the govenor pawl that runs on the cam
I think the washer was not installed during original assembly, so it was flawwed from the start. The 1st owner probably tried to compensate the loss of hertz by cranking up the spring and over done it, thus causing the valve failure.