"Solo Game Dev Sucks" (Chat With Indie Game Developer Jonas Tyroller)
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- Опубликовано: 13 фев 2022
- Let's talk about why solo game dev sucks (sometimes)! I chat with @JonasTyroller all about his solo game dev journey!
► Wishlist Will You Snail by @JonasTyroller: store.steampowered.com/app/11...
► Learn how to become a full time game dev, free: www.fulltimegamedev.com/opt-i...
► Enroll in my 3D workshop, free!: www.fulltimegamedev.com/opt-i...
► Make your game instantly beautiful with my free workbook: www.fulltimegamedev.com/opt-i...
► Get my 2D game kit, free: www.fulltimegamedev.com/opt-i...
► Join my 2D character workshop, free: www.fulltimegamedev.com/opt-i...
► Wishlist Twisted Tower: store.steampowered.com/app/15...
► Learn how to make money as a RUclipsr: www.fulltimegamedev.com/opt-i...
► What I believe: • What I Believe 
Игры
Thanks for watchin, and thanks Jonas for coming on!
► Wishlist Will You Snail by @Jonas Tyroller : store.steampowered.com/app/1115050/Will_You_Snail/
► Learn how to become a full time game dev, free: www.fulltimegamedev.com/opt-in-how-to-make-six-figures
► Enroll in my 3D workshop, free!: www.fulltimegamedev.com/opt-in-15-minute-3D-game
► Make your game instantly beautiful with my free workbook: www.fulltimegamedev.com/opt-in-instant-beauty-color-workbook
► Get my 2D game kit, free: www.fulltimegamedev.com/opt-in-2D-game-kit
► Join my 2D character workshop, free: www.fulltimegamedev.com/opt-in-2d-character-art-workshop
► Wishlist Twisted Tower: store.steampowered.com/app/1575990/Twisted_Tower/
► Learn how to make money as a RUclipsr: www.fulltimegamedev.com/opt-in-indie-game-income-workshop
I have an Important question I don't think you've answered yet...
Sorry to say this, but I think if you are really looking for money you shouldn't come to the game industry or any other artistic field that needs passion and dedication !!! I am sure there are thousands of other businesses out there so that you can make money much more easily !!!
Thanks a lot for the invitation. :)
There are so many things to do as an indie dev that you guaranteed to find something you really enjoy doing. Unfortunately you are also guaranteed to find many things you really hate doing and as a solo dev you just have to handle those parts too (unless your budget allows outsourcing).
What if managing outsourcing is one of the tasks you hate? Can you outsource managing the outsourcing? The big questions...
@@JonasTyroller Managing all that stuff for you is what a producer is for.
@@JonasTyroller Yeah, if only outsourcing was just pressing a button! I also hate outsourcing, but have found it to be the lesser evil in many cases :)
@@AuroDev hey love ur content!!
A lot of good sex is the answer to everything
This was really interesting. Jonas, I think you need to also emphasize the voice lines from the AI when you give your "pitch". For me, the hook wasn't merely that it's an AI predicting your moves (although that's certainly a key element), it's also the relationship that the player builds with the AI through the interactions with it. I obviously haven't played the game yet but what I got from your demo videos is that the AI responds verbally to your moves in real time, and although it may be only a "simple" AI, I think the fact it can respond when you miss a jump or when you avoid one of its traps, that really gives the player the feeling that they are interacting with the AI personally. This for me is the reason "Will you snail?" is awesome.
I see. That makes sense. Thanks for the tip. :)
I love how he said his solo game was not "any better" than the team dev game. Speaks volumes of why we wanna do solo dev, because we think other people would not be able to contribute to the game as we ourselves would. I would still love you do a Video about how to find a team, how to pitch your idea, how to find other people working on projects you could get behind.
Haha, true. And good questions.
seem like a cool dude Thomas. I am a coder / musician / artist / designer / etc. doing my own solo game. been a business programmer for the past 20 but taking a stab on my own game and doing everything myself. started with 2D and now i am knee deep in blender / substance painter / 3D etc. Thanks for the video!
I've been a fan of Thomas for a while and just recently got hooked on Jonas ("A New Way to Think About Productivity" is my favorite) so it was really cool to see a collab between the two of you
Happy you enjoyed it. Thanks! :)
Thank you for this! A great episode1 Would love to see more chats with other indie game dev developers!
Thomas. I bought your course last year and plan to take the plunge this year to work on my dream of becoming a game developer. I finally got the opportunity to quit a job that made me miserable.
Whoa! That’s AWESOME!
19:37 Yes i recommend solo devs do dev logs because it can have a positive impact in consistency and if it builds an audience in the process that can also help to keep it moving.
Love both of your channels, really excited to listen to this!
This is so cool! You both have different but valid ways of thinking and working! Was lovely to watch this. Thanks
This was a phenomenal interview with so many insights into the business and process. Very inspiring! Thank you both Thomas and Jonas!
It was great to watch both of you at the same time. Good luck with the launch, Jonas :)
So this is kind of tough subject. I have never worked on a game in a team but I did do it on other types of (sometimes huge) projects. In general I would say that working in a team is much better if you have people you trust and that are competent. Working in a team where people do not deliver their part or deliver it poorly is nowhere close the hassle of doing that part yourself. Doing game both, solo and together with a team, is a difficult task. Each of those roads has its own challenges and problems that are not present in the other one. That's true that when you work solo you have to take care about everything (actually I would argue that it is not always the case - you can buy assets/order them custom made - I often do it with sound and music) but when you work with the team you suddenly have to deal with much more project management related stuff, expectations, communication and so on.
Yeah, what Jonas mentioned about having partnered devs vs employees is important. I would rather have partners so they will feel more invested in the project.
@@DINGOS30 very true, however I believe even if the people you work with are your partners or friends it cannot guarantee successs. In extreme cases it can hurt the relationship. Of course - I am not saying it's terrible idea. Complete opposite - as mentioned before it's great to work with people you trust and know are competent, just what I want to point out is, in this situation if they constantly fail, especially because of the "wrong reasons" it hits you even harder than when working with strangers :).
It's real cool of you to be promoting other indie devs. Going to wishlish Jonas' game now.
It was interesting going back and watching both of your first videos. Different styles and at different times of your lives. Tenacious and passionate but totally different skill sets. Awesome!
I've tries the revenue share path a few times. I've had the complete opposite experience. When people aren't being paid, their passion doesn't always carry them across the finish line. They tend to drop the ball and prioritize other things because they don't take the project as seriously. Now I'm doing it solo
I love listening to you two talk, can't wait for more!
Awesome. Happy you enjoyed it. :)
Maaan. This is precious. I'ma just save it. Thanks for doing this!
My two favourite gamedev youtubers in one video - what could be better!
Thanks for covering interesting topics, very chill conversation, yet informative and inspirational ^_^
Happy you enjoyed it. :)
Been watching these guys to learn as much as possible for my game launch Dwerve. We have 60k+ wishlists!
right now i'm in the learning process, so far, i'm alone but i want to have a great team in the future, i mean, i want to be part of a good team
I wishlisted Snail. This video is full of helpful info regarding teams and revenue sharing. It's clarifying my thinking. Thanks for doing it!
Eyyy! Thanks so much. Happy you enjoyed the video. :)
Thanks for your Course Thomas!!!
You bet
Jonas and Thomas together, yes!
Beyond the Oak's was started as a Solo dev! and yeah both solo and team dev has its up's and Down's ! Keep your head up and keep creating!
Very candid and honest. Thank you
Very informative thanks for the video.
Tried working with people before.. It didn't work... Solo is the best for me.
Everybody is different. Wish you all the best!! :)
@@JonasTyroller hey thanks Jonas!!!
This was really awesome.
I'm just getting into solo game dev, but I'm doing from the perspective of the process of learning how to "because that's what I"m going to be doing" and documenting the journey for others. And you're channel is one of my top content channels on indie game dev. I'm using Blender and UE5 for my game journey mainly because there FREE! Just started this video so I have to finish watching. Just wanted to get this comment out before I forget. And I'm not logged into the channel where I'm doing the game dev journey for those reading. I have 10 channels so me being in the wrong one for commenting happens quite often.
I've done solo game dev for a while now but I can 100% agree that working in team is better! Ty for making such an amazing content Thomas !
3:27 FINALLY!
I thought I was the only one struggling with artwork.
Yo podcasts are back🔥🔥🔥
I think that everyone who wants to develop games should at least have the experience of solo game development to find out where the strengths and preferences lie in it, as well as to simply to become more resistant to stress. If you later work with a team where everyone has had the experience, then larger problems projects become very feasible than if none of them have never bitten their way through it alone.
Great chat! Loving these type of content, do one with Daniel Dionysus or DevDuck.
Also Gaving from Two Star Games, who is making Choochoo Charles, would be great!
When you're up against the wall, use whatever you have.
I can't even draw a decent stick figure, so I 3-d model everything and start taking RL pictures for BG images.
Thanx for vid, good to know it's tough even with the best skills, luck, etc... 😉
Do you actually recommend Apple Arcade or Play Project for Indie devs? You already had a ton of wishlists etc., so Apple kinda had to pay a bigger sum for your game, but I assume that might not have happened without a publisher/wishlists/good track record with your previous games
The more I watch the intro the more I like it
I agree, that art style and mood can be a good hook for a game. When I saw The Last Night on Steam, I instantly wanted to play it. I don't care for the mechanics or the story yet. But the mood had me instantly.
Wow, There is two of my favorite indie game dev are talking about game dev.
Witch is very useful thing for my indie game
Mongol(?) ppl in the comments yay! 🌈
@@nesser52 okay thanks I guess
Goedendag, as someone whom has worked with other people I'd have to say that I prefer to be by myself but we will see how things go…
whats up with the dutch lol
If you get a group of 3 people that are actually willing to commit into making a game (like a long gamejam lol), I think that would be better than having to learn everything that involves game dev and applying it for years until you finish your game.
I think a team (of good motivated members) is much better if you're trying to go full-time game dev. Going solo as a hobbyist, like myself, who has a full-time day job they really like works perfectly fine. Still, having a team makes things faster or you can do more in the same time no matter what. I personally prefer solo, just because I can work at my own pace and take breaks without feeling like I'm letting anyone down haha.
Do you have any advise on faceless/voiceless ways to get a social media presence for your game?
Few more weeks and Jonas game comes out on steam
Any recommendations on communities or places to find other devs to team up with?
A lot of teams find each other in game jams. I think it's not the worst idea to participate in a few as you can try out a bunch of different teams with relatively low commitment. Most game jams have a Discord Server or forum going along with them. :)
Guess it's gonna be a tough road for me from here on out
When 2 of the channels you follow make a crossover episode 👀👀
For me, the struggle isn't really that there is so much to do, it's finding help solving problems when I encounter a problem (which is currently VERY often since I'm still learning so much). I've had a problem with lighting in Unreal for several weeks now and posting to Discord, Unreal forums, Reddit, Twitter, and Instagram every couple of days has still not gotten me a solution. I've also tried Googling but most results I get have nothing to do with the problem I'm having. It's hard to make progress when you're stuck on a problem for so long. I try to work on other things but it's difficult with this problem lingering around.
When you're new to game dev I think it's better to find your way around these problems instead of getting stuck on them. When you're just getting started, maybe bend to the will of the engine a bit instead of trying to make it bend to your will. It's more important to keep it fun than to make your dream game right away.
It's normal, every gamedev has gone through this kind of stuff. I had an issue with the netcode and spent weeks trying to solve it so I did the same as you and switched to other tasks to keep the motivation, but eventually you're going to have to fix it, or as Jonas said, find another way to solve it with a little bit of creativity, or maybe even ignore it if it's not a core mechanic.
Take this hurdle in your way as a learning experience and just keep going, because gamedev is basically that every day, and at some point, after 100 issues like this, you're not even going to remember this particular problem, you will be a bug fixing machine 😀
@@ramoncf7 Thing is, I'm not even dealing with code yet. I'm just building the environment for my intro sequence and just can't get the lighting right. I've thought about changing locations for it but this is really just the best place for it to happen. And it sucks cause I've spent about 4 months of my free time (outside of the day job and life) on this location and in the end, the damn thing is only going to be about 45 seconds long.
@@DavesChaoticBrain Maybe those lights are not what should be your main focus. Is this just simple light for the scene or are you going for a certain look? I'm curious how they are ruining the scene for you. A lot of games had to just get rid of stuff that didn't work for them.
@@DINGOS30 I'm building a convenience store scene and I have 4 of those drink coolers with the double, glass doors. With one lighting setup, anything behind the glass had aspects rendering black. With the raytracing setup, things behind the glass look alright but a bit too bright. And with this second setup, if I move the camera behind the glass, all those various parts go black again. I'm not likely to have the camera go behind the glass, but the fact it's rendering weird doesn't sit well with me. I'd rather fix it now before it becomes a major problem later. Absolute worst case scenario, I'll just remove the glass completely and cringe every time they're viewable onscreen.
Hey, really educational video, ended up cracking out my google docs notes lmao. A quick question, since I ended up looking up "Islanders" on steam. Did Jonas also have a hand in super flight? I've played the ever-loving shit out of that game.
Hahah awesome
The other two guys made Super Flight before Jonas joined
@@TheSimonCle thanks
IMHO solo dev piece is great - what sucks is how to market the result - the way the stores are set up are designed to bury a game unless you are prepared to give the store money to promote it
Love it
I always find these sorts of pieces disheartening, but then, everyone is different and so far, I love developing by myself. I might change my mind if it gets more serious though!
Apologies for that. It goes without saying that everybody is different and different stuff works for different people. It's definitely better to work alone than with the wrong people and as mentioned in the vid solo dev also allows you to make a lot more personal games which is a big plus. Wish you all the best!! :)
@@JonasTyroller Thank you, I should also say I see the value in the 'dose of reality'; I think game dev does look glamorous, especially if you are new to it and it's healthy to manage expectations. Thank you for your invaluable insight! 🙂
1:03:00 Can anyone explain to me WHY it would be such a bad thing to disclose numbers?
Teamwork :)
"What are you going to do if it flops?"
"I think I have enough financial backing to give it another go"
OK....HUGE QUESTION.... how do you need your life set up to go into solo game dev? How much money should you be making? How much more than living expenses do you need to invest in your game? What are the overhead expenses? How much time do you need assuming you're also working a full-time job?
How do you know if you can even survive starting to pursue solo game dev??
Jonas has come so far
Orange's complimentary color is blue lol
Y'all should start your own game dev company :)
you should do a podcast tbh
To all the solo Devs out there cheers 🍻
Cheers as long as I'm still part of your club. :P
Why not an Islanders II? I can imagine DLC packs as well.
With ISLANDERS we earned ourselves the luxury to work on whatever we want for a while. We decided to use that opportunity on some riskier self-finding projects that we could not have done under other circumstances. No clue if that was wise, but it's the decision we made.
We happy few is a game that I bought only for the art, mood and worldbuilding. Hooks are weirs for me, they come in all sorts of shape
It maybe sucks but it is worth trying
54:33 For me the best approach is a mix of both for indies. I get ask so often to work for rev share and I just want none of it at this point in my career. Most of the time I can see right through this as a Startup or lack of confidence/maturity of a studio to shut the door right away. The best formula for me was always: Pay me, cuz I know what I've been doing for the past 10years and know i can bring it X,Y,Z and let's talk revshare bonus on the project. Let's be honest this formula favor the studio a lot as well as bring some incentive to employees the rev share part is substantially less off course like maybe 1 or 2 % something along the likes. This sometimes isn't much, but I mean if the game is making a million (gross) by some miracle well I think I could at least get a bit of a Christmas bonus or something (And Yes this should include publishers or console specific deals and not just "profit margin", which is way too easy to shuffle around or bring down to almost 0 for business savvy people ;) ).
Nonetheless I don't really agree with the point of view that employees will only want you to shut up, cash in and deliver the minimum they can. That would only point out that you should not hire these types of people ;). But rev share, to me always appeared shady, I know well enough the reality of indie games revenue risk to be taking it with/for someone else along the way, I'm at the point where IF I am to take these type of risk I'll do it for myself and remove external factors that could tank a project, aka Solo venture ;)
can't find where I can see/follow father. I want to see the graphics
Go to Steam and enter "Father Atmos Games" in the search bar. Hit enter. Profit. :)
@@JonasTyroller thx!
god i love that thomas intro clip; I also love solo dev xD #hermitlife - recommend LMMS for music too :)
Twitter is actually very welcoming for me! :) Yeah I miss the playstation style xD gg
Valve hired them in for Portal 1 - not sure if they earned much haha.
Does anyone in the comments think a 3D scifi racing game is marketable? Something like Wipeout/F-Zero. That’s a genre I’m passionate about but I’m not sure how popular that genre is.
Great video!
Imagine Thomas Brush and Jonas Tyroller collaborate on a game...🚀
54:16 that reaction xddddddd.
Yes. Yes it does.
"Solo Game Dev...is okay" Yes of course it could be fun if you interact with other game developers, do some devlogs, and stream game development
Sodom’s Hollow? Gosh I hope it is
Dani next?
I disagree with the solo vs team 😂 the only upside to a team is the efficiency aspect
When is your next stream
Thank you both!
Thank you for watching. :)
Gamedev is the new goldrush. Those who do the digging rarely make it rich, it's those selling the shovels (Google, Apple, Valve, Epic Games, Unity) who make the money. Only make games if you enjoy it and it's your hobby. Don't try to turn this hobby into a full time job hoping you will succeed. Making games can be as much fun or even more fun than playing games.
Yes it does. "cry"
Small Reminder: Thomas Brush DOESNT "make indie games for a living".
He sells courses on how to join in on what he himself doesn't do for a living.
That's what he does for a living, to be exact.
i mean he does earn massive amounts of money from his games.
If a publisher is offering him a "high six figure sum" in a deal related to his next game then making games is definitely his main income. A youtube channel with 280k subs isn't going to outearn that.
Epic vid
Yeah!!!!!
I'm going to be 100% with you Thomas. Your videos are fine but when you're scripted you come off very pompous and cocky, its just too much. But when you're unscripted and just casually talking (like in this interview) you're much more like-able and down to Earth. If you can find a balance I think it would improve your videos, at least to me.
Either way the content of this interview is great, I appreciate it.
Grab you're, haha brain funny go boom haha lose of work due to crashing, ticket here
first